The Justice and Police Minister says the Government's surpassed its own violent crime reduction target.
It set a goal in March last year of having 20 thousand fewer victims of serious violent crime, with an initial 2029 deadline.
It claims it’s already beat the deadline, but admits the data is volatile and subject to change.
Chief Victims Advisor Ruth Money told John MacDonald that although she’s delighted by the figures, she’s cautious in her celebrations since it’s only quarterly data.
But she says we do also need to acknowledge that there are a lot of crimes that aren’t disclosed willingly, so these numbers, although encouraging, are volatile.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Kerrywood and Morning's podcast from news Talks,
he'd be.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
So, how do you feel about the government's goal of
having twenty thousand less violent crimes by twenty twenty nine
has already been achieved four years early? Does it match
up with what you see in your part of the
world you're part of the country, or do you still
see a lot of a lot of violence happening. I'm
putting it down to the increased police presence, and I'm
talking from the perspective of where I am in Canterbury.
(00:35):
More cops than ever and I just see that. I've
got numbers to back that up. Police Minister Mark Mitchell
he said yesterday that there's been a forty percent increase
in police foot patrolling. So it's been a forty percent
increase in the numbers of or the amount of time
police spend on the beat. So surely, I mean, that's
(00:56):
the one thing that I'm putting it down to. There
are a range of different policies the government's brought in,
but as I mentioned earlier, there are work in progress,
juries still out. But I think it has to be
the increase in police foot patrols that is making a
huge difference and is part of the reason why we've
seen this decrease in violent crime. Ruth Money is the
(01:16):
chief victim's advisor. She's with us now. Gooday, Ruth, good morning.
Can I can I just run something past you. Adam's
been in touch by text to say that the most
effective thing this government has done for law and order
is their choice of Richard Chambers as commissioner because he's
got things back to basics. He's a frontline commissioner. What's
your take on that?
Speaker 3 (01:38):
Certainly Richard is back to basics and the boys and
girls in Blue are very happy with their commissioner. So yeah,
he does have a back to basics approach and I
am enjoying working with him from a victim's perspective for sure.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
See my take on it is that, you know, I
think I don't think we can put it down to
one particular policy that the government has implemented so far,
but I think the increased visibility and presence of the
police is making a difference. What do you What do
you think of that?
Speaker 3 (02:07):
Yes, I wholeheartedly agree. You know, I keep trying to
remind people, well, for the last thirteen years of my role,
that we're dealing with humans and it's not just one thing.
We are complex beings and to assist with law and order,
there are so many factors, right, health, economic, the police,
(02:27):
there's justice, there's the courts. And I think that's actually
what well many of the full, full down positions that
we have for victims is that there are so many
silos across the system. We forget that they're humans and
that we're complex beings, same with the offenders and the
people who are out there hurting people. So we do
(02:48):
need a strong police presence, but we also need health,
economy and you know, all those justice processes to be working.
So yeah, I totally agree with you.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
How much of a fluke do you think these numbers are,
because they're quite spectacular, and that's also not forgetting that
there's still thousands of people who are victims of violent
crime hasn't been eliminated. But are you surprised.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
I'm not surprised. I mean I'm delighted, but it is
only quarterly data, so I am couras with my celebrations,
although any less victim obviously brings me delight. I think
what we do need to acknowledge, quite appropriately is that
our victim numbers are still very high, and also that
(03:36):
family violence, sexual violence, fraud, There are a lot of
crimes that aren't disclosed willingly because of the shame and
because of the processes that are involved. So these numbers,
while absolutely they are encouraging, it is volatile because it
is only a quarterly number.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
Someone was asking earlier whether domestic violence is still included
in these stats. Can you confirm that.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
Well, yes, domestic violence is included in the stats, but
we do know that domestic violence is a really under
reported type of crime. That said, statistic gurus always say
to me, well, actually, we are consistent, right, They are
consistent with how they treat the data from twenty eighteen
when the survey started, all the way forward. So whatever
(04:22):
is underrepresented they believe will be underrepresented moving forward. So
you are kind of comparing apples with apples, But my
heart hurts that we still are not in a position
where domestic violence is reported as much as it occurs.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
Yeah, so just on from that, in a way, what
is captured under the definition of violent crime.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
A person to person violent crime, so we have there.
It could be a male assaults female, It could be
a strangulation. The sexual violence is spelt out or is
separated out differently, but it is the kind of genuine,
usual death condition of violence.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
And there's been talk, I mean Paul Goldsmith's talking. There
was a judge poop pilling it in the Heralds today,
But Paul Goldsmith is saying this is as much to
do with the vibe that's coming from Wellington as anything else.
What's your response to that, Well, I.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
Think I'm not sure I want to use the word vibe,
sorry minister. But there is a signal and there is
communication throughout a feeling I guess throughout the system that
we do have to work harder for victims of crime,
and we do have to employ for example, like the
(05:42):
police have gone back to basics. We are out there
preventing crime with more feed on the ground, so to speak.
So there certainly is a message that has been sent
by the government to all the sector. It's not just
the judiciary, it is the ministry, it is people who
work in the courts, it is the NGOs who support victims.
(06:04):
There is a feeling that this government is prioritizing victims
and for that I'm really grateful.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
You see, I've always had the view. And again this
is not me detracting from the results out today, but
I've always had been of the thinking that whatever penalties are,
whatever comes from government, whatever comes from the judiciary and
the heat of the moment, that doesn't stop someone committing
a violent crime.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
No it doesn't. But again it's the package. Right. So,
like we were talking about before, there are many reasons
why people commit crime, fraud for example, post COVID, and
economic issues. There are lots of things that cause crime.
It's not just someone waking up in the morning and saying, right,
I'm going to go out and hurt someone. So it
(06:50):
is a multidisciplinary response that we need to be employing.
Just like we can't have a revolving door. When people
come out of a corrections facility with no true reintegration
and rehabilitation, I mean, that's just madness, right, it's the definition.
If we are not helping a sex offender address their behavior,
(07:13):
then we're just going to put them back into the
community and the likelihood is that they may well reoffend.
So there are many many things that we have to
do across the system to make sure that people will
not reoffend. There are always going to be people in
our community who for whatever reason, are criminal, and for
(07:34):
that we need strong responses. But are the proportion of
the community who are offending that we can you know
that their criminogenic needs can be addressed. Yes, I think
there are, because ultimately that will mean less victims.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
Okay, so the police visibility that there's no well, actually
some people saying there's been no change where they are
and as a sign there's been a big change, and
where I am there's been significant change. What about the
response as people are getting from the police when they
call them. Have you heard whether there's been any change
in that regard.
Speaker 3 (08:13):
I haven't. Again, it depends where you live in terms
of I am getting feedback much like you. Oh, we're
in Auckland and we see a lot more patrols for example,
in fact, I heard something very similar out of christ Church.
But then you also get pockets where you might have
younger offenders who are all hanging out and just you know,
(08:37):
on a repeat cycle where the police they need to
divert their resources to concentrate on that particular issue. In
terms of response times, et cetera. I'm not sure. I
haven't had any feedback. Good or bad about whether they
are getting the appropriate responses. I'm sure if it was bad,
I would hear about it.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
Okay, all right, we might say if we hear about it.
To Ruth Mardey, thanks for your time today. Thanks joll
all right with Victim's Advocate, the Chief Victims.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
For more from Kerry Wooden Mornings, listen live to news
Talks it Be from nine am weekdays, or follow the
podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Kerrywood and Morning's podcast from news Talks,
he'd be.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
So, how do you feel about the government's goal of
having twenty thousand less violent crimes by twenty twenty nine
has already been achieved four years early? Does it match
up with what you see in your part of the
world you're part of the country, or do you still
see a lot of a lot of violence happening. I'm
putting it down to the increased police presence, and I'm
talking from the perspective of where I am in Canterbury.
(00:35):
More cops than ever and I just see that. I've
got numbers to back that up. Police Minister Mark Mitchell
he said yesterday that there's been a forty percent increase
in police foot patrolling. So it's been a forty percent
increase in the numbers of or the amount of time
police spend on the beat. So surely, I mean, that's
(00:56):
the one thing that I'm putting it down to. There
are a range of different policies the government's brought in,
but as I mentioned earlier, there are work in progress,
juries still out. But I think it has to be
the increase in police foot patrols that is making a
huge difference and is part of the reason why we've
seen this decrease in violent crime. Ruth Money is the
(01:16):
chief victim's advisor. She's with us now. Gooday, Ruth, good morning.
Can I can I just run something past you. Adam's
been in touch by text to say that the most
effective thing this government has done for law and order
is their choice of Richard Chambers as commissioner because he's
got things back to basics. He's a frontline commissioner. What's
your take on that?
Speaker 3 (01:38):
Certainly Richard is back to basics and the boys and
girls in Blue are very happy with their commissioner. So yeah,
he does have a back to basics approach and I
am enjoying working with him from a victim's perspective for sure.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
See my take on it is that, you know, I
think I don't think we can put it down to
one particular policy that the government has implemented so far,
but I think the increased visibility and presence of the
police is making a difference. What do you What do
you think of that?
Speaker 3 (02:07):
Yes, I wholeheartedly agree. You know, I keep trying to
remind people, well, for the last thirteen years of my role,
that we're dealing with humans and it's not just one thing.
We are complex beings and to assist with law and order,
there are so many factors, right, health, economic, the police,
(02:27):
there's justice, there's the courts. And I think that's actually
what well many of the full, full down positions that
we have for victims is that there are so many
silos across the system. We forget that they're humans and
that we're complex beings, same with the offenders and the
people who are out there hurting people. So we do
(02:48):
need a strong police presence, but we also need health,
economy and you know, all those justice processes to be working.
So yeah, I totally agree with you.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
How much of a fluke do you think these numbers are,
because they're quite spectacular, and that's also not forgetting that
there's still thousands of people who are victims of violent
crime hasn't been eliminated. But are you surprised.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
I'm not surprised. I mean I'm delighted, but it is
only quarterly data, so I am couras with my celebrations,
although any less victim obviously brings me delight. I think
what we do need to acknowledge, quite appropriately is that
our victim numbers are still very high, and also that
(03:36):
family violence, sexual violence, fraud, There are a lot of
crimes that aren't disclosed willingly because of the shame and
because of the processes that are involved. So these numbers,
while absolutely they are encouraging, it is volatile because it
is only a quarterly number.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
Someone was asking earlier whether domestic violence is still included
in these stats. Can you confirm that.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
Well, yes, domestic violence is included in the stats, but
we do know that domestic violence is a really under
reported type of crime. That said, statistic gurus always say
to me, well, actually, we are consistent, right, They are
consistent with how they treat the data from twenty eighteen
when the survey started, all the way forward. So whatever
(04:22):
is underrepresented they believe will be underrepresented moving forward. So
you are kind of comparing apples with apples, But my
heart hurts that we still are not in a position
where domestic violence is reported as much as it occurs.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
Yeah, so just on from that, in a way, what
is captured under the definition of violent crime.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
A person to person violent crime, so we have there.
It could be a male assaults female, It could be
a strangulation. The sexual violence is spelt out or is
separated out differently, but it is the kind of genuine,
usual death condition of violence.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
And there's been talk, I mean Paul Goldsmith's talking. There
was a judge poop pilling it in the Heralds today,
But Paul Goldsmith is saying this is as much to
do with the vibe that's coming from Wellington as anything else.
What's your response to that, Well, I.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
Think I'm not sure I want to use the word vibe,
sorry minister. But there is a signal and there is
communication throughout a feeling I guess throughout the system that
we do have to work harder for victims of crime,
and we do have to employ for example, like the
(05:42):
police have gone back to basics. We are out there
preventing crime with more feed on the ground, so to speak.
So there certainly is a message that has been sent
by the government to all the sector. It's not just
the judiciary, it is the ministry, it is people who
work in the courts, it is the NGOs who support victims.
(06:04):
There is a feeling that this government is prioritizing victims
and for that I'm really grateful.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
You see, I've always had the view. And again this
is not me detracting from the results out today, but
I've always had been of the thinking that whatever penalties are,
whatever comes from government, whatever comes from the judiciary and
the heat of the moment, that doesn't stop someone committing
a violent crime.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
No it doesn't. But again it's the package. Right. So,
like we were talking about before, there are many reasons
why people commit crime, fraud for example, post COVID, and
economic issues. There are lots of things that cause crime.
It's not just someone waking up in the morning and saying, right,
I'm going to go out and hurt someone. So it
(06:50):
is a multidisciplinary response that we need to be employing.
Just like we can't have a revolving door. When people
come out of a corrections facility with no true reintegration
and rehabilitation, I mean, that's just madness, right, it's the definition.
If we are not helping a sex offender address their behavior,
(07:13):
then we're just going to put them back into the
community and the likelihood is that they may well reoffend.
So there are many many things that we have to
do across the system to make sure that people will
not reoffend. There are always going to be people in
our community who for whatever reason, are criminal, and for
(07:34):
that we need strong responses. But are the proportion of
the community who are offending that we can you know
that their criminogenic needs can be addressed. Yes, I think
there are, because ultimately that will mean less victims.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
Okay, so the police visibility that there's no well, actually
some people saying there's been no change where they are
and as a sign there's been a big change, and
where I am there's been significant change. What about the
response as people are getting from the police when they
call them. Have you heard whether there's been any change
in that regard.
Speaker 3 (08:13):
I haven't. Again, it depends where you live in terms
of I am getting feedback much like you. Oh, we're
in Auckland and we see a lot more patrols for example,
in fact, I heard something very similar out of christ Church.
But then you also get pockets where you might have
younger offenders who are all hanging out and just you know,
(08:37):
on a repeat cycle where the police they need to
divert their resources to concentrate on that particular issue. In
terms of response times, et cetera. I'm not sure. I
haven't had any feedback. Good or bad about whether they
are getting the appropriate responses. I'm sure if it was bad,
I would hear about it.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
Okay, all right, we might say if we hear about it.
To Ruth Mardey, thanks for your time today. Thanks joll
all right with Victim's Advocate, the Chief Victims.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
For more from Kerry Wooden Mornings, listen live to news
Talks it Be from nine am weekdays, or follow the
podcast on iHeartRadio
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