April 23, 2026 • 8 mins
The New Zealand Liberation Museum – Te Arawhata, located in the historic fortress town of Le Quesnoy, France, commemorates one of New Zealand's most daring and successful military feats of World War I.
The museum opened on 11 October 2023 to provide a permanent place of remembrance for New Zealand's contributions on the Western Front.
Patron of the New Zealand Memorial Museum Trust, Sir Don McKinnon, joined Kerre Woodham to chat about the 'living memorial'.
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Kerrywood and Mornings podcast from News Talks.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Headb now begins our anzac our and we start with
the New Zealand Liberation Museum to Arafatta, located in the
historic fortress town of Leuquinoir in France. It commemorates one
of New Zealand's most daring and successful military feats of
World War One and was established to provide a permanent
place of remembrance for New Zealand's contributions on the Western Front,
(00:34):
a need that had gone unaddressed for more than a century.
The museum opened on the eleventh of October twenty twenty
three and serves as a living memorial and a cultural
bridge between New Zealand and France. Founder and patron of
the New Zealand Memorial Museum Trust, Lucinua, Sir Don McKinnon
joins me now in a very good morning to usaidon.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
Well, good morning to you as well.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
I've had the privilege of visiting Lucinois and visiting the
museum and it's absolutely beautiful. It's a wonderful, wonderful, all
permanent remembrance center that still seems relevant today. How did
it take so long to get something like that as
(01:19):
a remembrance of what our New Zealand troops did. Why
was there a reluctance to be one of We were
the only country, weren't we that didn't have a memorial
to our soldiers in Europe.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
Well, it's a rather sad story, Kerrie, because we were
asked to do things along these lines back in the
nineteen twenties. You know, soon after the war, shouldn't there
be something there? And there wasn't a government that really
was prepared to do anything. Yes, for New Zealanders, there
(01:53):
were three monuments and such things like that. There were
course eleven thousand graves of New Zealanders on the Western Front,
but there was no place where New Zealanders could gather
and be amongst themselves, be amongst the stories of those
soldiers of World War One. So I guess I got
(02:15):
together with a few people, probably fifteen years ago now
and decide, look, it's never going to be the right time,
but it's necessary to do something. And that's what happened.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
But it took so much work, I know on your
part to go around just shaking the tin, just picking
up coins here and coins there. Before that memorial was made.
Is there a reluctance to remember the past or is
it so long ago that it seems irrelevant now.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
It was just a decision too hard to make, and
I guess the ministry responsible for those sorts of things
culture and heritage, they can see a real problem in
having a facility outside of New Zealand. We don't quite
have the same control on it. I'm familiar with that
(03:05):
because as a minister, I'm well aware the problems we
used to have. Who's going to be responsible for the
constant upgrade of the Casara Mansfield Memorial in France? And
so there was never a determination by two or three
ministers say no, we just got to have this, And
it wasn't until I ceased to be a minister I decided, no,
(03:28):
it's got to be, it's got to be done. You've
got to have a place where Kiwi's traveling to Europe
wanting to know all about their antecedents that World War
One can go and find that information.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
But we seem to have the idea that Gallipoli perhaps
was the only place that New Zealand fought in World
War One, because there's always been that very strong connection
between Turkey and ourselves and the governments our respective governments.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
Absolutely, and of course it's the most important because it
was the bringing together Australia and New Zealand force that
created the whole Anzac story. And really, you know what
we've done here is provide the other book end the
defeat of Gallipoli at one end of the First World War.
(04:18):
For New Zealand, Lurkin War was the victory at the
other the book end at the other end of World
War One.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
It is so worth while visiting. Have New Zealanders found it?
Have they found very much?
Speaker 3 (04:31):
So very much so. We've been tremendously pleased by the
number of visitors who have heard a little bit about it.
And then they've dug out an old letter that grandfather
great grandfather wrote making reference to it, so they bring
they bring this letter with them to Lurkinoir. And also
(04:53):
I'm very impressed by the number of secondary schools who
do these tours to Europe have now included the World
War One and particularly Lukinoi. So there's a great grit.
And as you probably be aware, we are celebrating Anzac
Day in Leukinoire on Sunday and there's already a huge
(05:17):
group in New Zealand, young New Zealders that those traveling
New Zealanders on the Roe Trek getting onto your Star,
taking the train across to Leel and the train down
to lurkin Ra. So it'll be a big bunch of
young New Zealders celebrating or commemorating Anzac Day and Lurkinoi
and they end up by having a great dinner that evening.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
How fantastic and how has it spread? Because I knew
about it, because I knew of the work you had
done on it. But it really I mean, if you
don't mind me second, it's been a one man band,
hasn't it?
Speaker 3 (05:52):
Oh no, No, I've had a great team of people
around me and each one has done, you know, the
kind of work that needs doing.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
But you know, as a word of mouth from the
young kiwis.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
The word of mouth? Well, of course we've the team
we've got working at the museum now in Leurquinois, and
they're they're Kiwi's, they're always bilingual, of course, they're all
they're actively promoting it, that promote it within the schools
in France, they're actively promoting it in London, in Berlin,
(06:28):
in Amsterdam, and of course in Brussels, so more people
are hearing about it and more people are traveling to
see it.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
I'm delighted to hear that, and delighted to hear there
will be a great crowd there for Anzac Day. I'd
love to see it, and sounds like it's well on
the way to becoming one of those must see destinations
when young Kiwis go overseas as Gallipoli is and will
be as well.
Speaker 3 (06:58):
It will develop to that extent. And of course it's
the nature of the museum of you've seen it carry it.
A lot of it is interactive, which means you can
keep it up to date pretty rapidly.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
It's amazing, it's you we've got these.
Speaker 3 (07:15):
The number of French primary schools are going there. We
wondered why so many are coming to visit us. Turns
out the French government subsidize schools to go to places
of cultural interests, so we're benefiting by the money spent
by the French government wanting their young kids to visit
these places.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
Oh and just before I go, seeing as we're talking
about financial literacy in the light, how is it being
funded then like now it's up is the government funding
or is it still private donors.
Speaker 3 (07:46):
We are getting some support from New Zealand governments and
I'm very grateful for that. These things are always in
the pipeline. Of course, the people coming through the gate
obviously contribute, and there are still other donations coming in,
but it's going to be a while for one can
say it can cletely wash its own face.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Well, it's an absolute tribute to you, so Don, It's
a beautiful, beautiful memorial to so many young men who
never made it home.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
Well, thank you for you, Thank you Kerrie promoting it
so effectively.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
Sir Don McKinnon, former Minister of Foreign Affairs, Deputy Prime
Minister of New Zealand and the Secretary General of the Commonwealth,
Founder and patron of the New Zealand Memorial Museum Trust Lukinworth.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
For more from Kerry Wood and Mornings, listen live to
news Talks It'd be from nine am weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Kerrywood and Mornings podcast from News Talks.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Headb now begins our anzac our and we start with
the New Zealand Liberation Museum to Arafatta, located in the
historic fortress town of Leuquinoir in France. It commemorates one
of New Zealand's most daring and successful military feats of
World War One and was established to provide a permanent
place of remembrance for New Zealand's contributions on the Western Front,
(00:34):
a need that had gone unaddressed for more than a century.
The museum opened on the eleventh of October twenty twenty
three and serves as a living memorial and a cultural
bridge between New Zealand and France. Founder and patron of
the New Zealand Memorial Museum Trust, Lucinua, Sir Don McKinnon
joins me now in a very good morning to usaidon.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
Well, good morning to you as well.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
I've had the privilege of visiting Lucinois and visiting the
museum and it's absolutely beautiful. It's a wonderful, wonderful, all
permanent remembrance center that still seems relevant today. How did
it take so long to get something like that as
(01:19):
a remembrance of what our New Zealand troops did. Why
was there a reluctance to be one of We were
the only country, weren't we that didn't have a memorial
to our soldiers in Europe.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
Well, it's a rather sad story, Kerrie, because we were
asked to do things along these lines back in the
nineteen twenties. You know, soon after the war, shouldn't there
be something there? And there wasn't a government that really
was prepared to do anything. Yes, for New Zealanders, there
(01:53):
were three monuments and such things like that. There were
course eleven thousand graves of New Zealanders on the Western Front,
but there was no place where New Zealanders could gather
and be amongst themselves, be amongst the stories of those
soldiers of World War One. So I guess I got
(02:15):
together with a few people, probably fifteen years ago now
and decide, look, it's never going to be the right time,
but it's necessary to do something. And that's what happened.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
But it took so much work, I know on your
part to go around just shaking the tin, just picking
up coins here and coins there. Before that memorial was made.
Is there a reluctance to remember the past or is
it so long ago that it seems irrelevant now.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
It was just a decision too hard to make, and
I guess the ministry responsible for those sorts of things
culture and heritage, they can see a real problem in
having a facility outside of New Zealand. We don't quite
have the same control on it. I'm familiar with that
(03:05):
because as a minister, I'm well aware the problems we
used to have. Who's going to be responsible for the
constant upgrade of the Casara Mansfield Memorial in France? And
so there was never a determination by two or three
ministers say no, we just got to have this, And
it wasn't until I ceased to be a minister I decided, no,
(03:28):
it's got to be, it's got to be done. You've
got to have a place where Kiwi's traveling to Europe
wanting to know all about their antecedents that World War
One can go and find that information.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
But we seem to have the idea that Gallipoli perhaps
was the only place that New Zealand fought in World
War One, because there's always been that very strong connection
between Turkey and ourselves and the governments our respective governments.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
Absolutely, and of course it's the most important because it
was the bringing together Australia and New Zealand force that
created the whole Anzac story. And really, you know what
we've done here is provide the other book end the
defeat of Gallipoli at one end of the First World War.
(04:18):
For New Zealand, Lurkin War was the victory at the
other the book end at the other end of World
War One.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
It is so worth while visiting. Have New Zealanders found it?
Have they found very much?
Speaker 3 (04:31):
So very much so. We've been tremendously pleased by the
number of visitors who have heard a little bit about it.
And then they've dug out an old letter that grandfather
great grandfather wrote making reference to it, so they bring
they bring this letter with them to Lurkinoir. And also
(04:53):
I'm very impressed by the number of secondary schools who
do these tours to Europe have now included the World
War One and particularly Lukinoi. So there's a great grit.
And as you probably be aware, we are celebrating Anzac
Day in Leukinoire on Sunday and there's already a huge
(05:17):
group in New Zealand, young New Zealders that those traveling
New Zealanders on the Roe Trek getting onto your Star,
taking the train across to Leel and the train down
to lurkin Ra. So it'll be a big bunch of
young New Zealders celebrating or commemorating Anzac Day and Lurkinoi
and they end up by having a great dinner that evening.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
How fantastic and how has it spread? Because I knew
about it, because I knew of the work you had
done on it. But it really I mean, if you
don't mind me second, it's been a one man band,
hasn't it?
Speaker 3 (05:52):
Oh no, No, I've had a great team of people
around me and each one has done, you know, the
kind of work that needs doing.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
But you know, as a word of mouth from the
young kiwis.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
The word of mouth? Well, of course we've the team
we've got working at the museum now in Leurquinois, and
they're they're Kiwi's, they're always bilingual, of course, they're all
they're actively promoting it, that promote it within the schools
in France, they're actively promoting it in London, in Berlin,
(06:28):
in Amsterdam, and of course in Brussels, so more people
are hearing about it and more people are traveling to
see it.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
I'm delighted to hear that, and delighted to hear there
will be a great crowd there for Anzac Day. I'd
love to see it, and sounds like it's well on
the way to becoming one of those must see destinations
when young Kiwis go overseas as Gallipoli is and will
be as well.
Speaker 3 (06:58):
It will develop to that extent. And of course it's
the nature of the museum of you've seen it carry it.
A lot of it is interactive, which means you can
keep it up to date pretty rapidly.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
It's amazing, it's you we've got these.
Speaker 3 (07:15):
The number of French primary schools are going there. We
wondered why so many are coming to visit us. Turns
out the French government subsidize schools to go to places
of cultural interests, so we're benefiting by the money spent
by the French government wanting their young kids to visit
these places.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
Oh and just before I go, seeing as we're talking
about financial literacy in the light, how is it being
funded then like now it's up is the government funding
or is it still private donors.
Speaker 3 (07:46):
We are getting some support from New Zealand governments and
I'm very grateful for that. These things are always in
the pipeline. Of course, the people coming through the gate
obviously contribute, and there are still other donations coming in,
but it's going to be a while for one can
say it can cletely wash its own face.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Well, it's an absolute tribute to you, so Don, It's
a beautiful, beautiful memorial to so many young men who
never made it home.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
Well, thank you for you, Thank you Kerrie promoting it
so effectively.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
Sir Don McKinnon, former Minister of Foreign Affairs, Deputy Prime
Minister of New Zealand and the Secretary General of the Commonwealth,
Founder and patron of the New Zealand Memorial Museum Trust Lukinworth.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
For more from Kerry Wood and Mornings, listen live to
news Talks It'd be from nine am weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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