Full Show Podcast: 15 May 2026

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
You're listening to a podcast from News Talk, said B.
Follow this and our Wide Ranger podcasts now on iHeartRadio.

Speaker 2 (00:17):
The big stories, the big issues, the big trends, and
everything in between.

Speaker 1 (00:23):
Matt Heath and Tyler Adams Afternoons News Talk.

Speaker 3 (00:27):
Said B, very good afternoon to you. Welcome into the
show six past one. Great say of your company. He doing, Matt,
I'm doing.

Speaker 4 (00:33):
Very well now. I have been talking a little bit
on the show about an Apple TV show called Widow's Baby,
and a new episode came out on Wednesday. Yes, I
watched it yesterday. So good. It's a horror show, said
on An Island and New England Island. It's you know,

(00:53):
there's a bunch of homages to Stephen King, but it's
not written by Stephen King. In fact, at one point
in episode four in the bookstore you see a Stephen
King novel. But episode four. I thought episode one was good. Yeah,
I thought episode two was very good. I was a
big fan of episode three. Episode four just took it
to an absolute another level. And they have the confidence

(01:17):
in the show to set something up over the whole show.
A slow burn, such a slow burn and then a
big payoff.

Speaker 3 (01:24):
Yeah, if you haven't seen it, Widow's Bay.

Speaker 4 (01:26):
I'm all in, has this been a hit? This show?
Because I was looking at the Apple TV charts, you know,
it says the most watched things, and it was only
at four. I was like, it depends because it doesn't.
It kind of makes you think of the name, makes
you think of Dawson's Creek or or something like like
a you know, Virgin River or something. But I don't

(01:48):
feel like Widow's Bay gives you enough of a sense
that it's a black comedy horror.

Speaker 3 (01:53):
Yeah, because did you just spot it on ap Apple
TV while you're scrolling through.

Speaker 4 (01:57):
I'm always looking. I'm a big fan of horror, so
I'll watch anything. I'll give anything horror a go. Yeah.
So when I saw that there was a horror TV
show like this, I gave it a go. But maybe
I winkled it out.

Speaker 3 (02:07):
Because it was such a sweet But the only reason
I knew about is I saw something on Facebook screen
rent I think they called it and they were talking
about Widow's Bay. And then I saw all the comments saying,
oh my god, you've got to watch this TV showt Oh,
give it a go. I'll give it a go. The
first episode is Oh man, I am man, this is great.

Speaker 4 (02:21):
And I think I was saying it the other day
on the show. It's so good how it's only coming
out every week as opposed to dumping the whole lot,
because you think about it through the week and you
look forward to it and it's special. It reminds me
of being a kid when I'd be so excited when
a new episode of night Rider came out.

Speaker 5 (02:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (02:36):
Yeah, it's kind of that same thing. You're looking forward
to it. It's an event. Yeah, it's an event when
it comes out and then you can discuss it and
you think about it. You wonder what's going to happen.
So I think all good shows should return two weekly.

Speaker 3 (02:49):
Yeah, I agree.

Speaker 4 (02:50):
But yeah. Widow's Bay on Apple TV thoroughly recommended if
you're like a bit of comedy. Yeah, well, it's not
even really comedy.

Speaker 3 (02:59):
It's hard to pinpoint in the genre.

Speaker 4 (03:01):
It's maybe quirky horror or something because it's not one
hundred percent serious, but it's not played for gags.

Speaker 3 (03:08):
And there's some terrifying moments.

Speaker 4 (03:09):
Yeah, yeah, definitely terrifying moments.

Speaker 3 (03:10):
Yeah, give it a watch this weekend. Widow's Bats on
Apple Plus fantastic show right on to our fantastic show
for the afternoon after three point thirty because it is
a Friday. You know what that means New Zealander of
the week. Who will it be looking forward to that?
Also after three point thirty Barry Sober he will be
joining us renowned political report of five decades in the business.

(03:31):
He has of course written a new book, One Last
Question Prime Minister. It's the story of a working life
measured by twelve prime Ministers, packed with entertaining yarns from
the hallways, back rooms and hotel bars where New Zealand's
chosen leaders for better or has created their legacies. It's
a fantastic read.

Speaker 4 (03:46):
Yeah, I really enjoyed it. It's very readable.

Speaker 3 (03:48):
It is it's a.

Speaker 4 (03:50):
Real jaunt through New Zealand politics. I think anyone that's
interested in politics should should read it. But also I
think just someone that isn't completely across all of it.
It's just just a romp through a guy from a
guy that was there, Yeah, with you know, insight and
insider insights on these very famous politicians. It's just a
great read. Also, a lot of partying was done back

(04:11):
in the day. It turns out, Yeah, reporters used to
party a lot on New Bears had a history. But yeah,
although of course in the news at the moment there's
some partying in a in a less respectable manner of home,
still there. Yes, Yeah, anyway, looking forward to talking about
the book. It's great. It's called what's it called again,
it's called One Last Question.

Speaker 3 (04:28):
One last question, Prime Minister. Yes, he'll be with us
just after three point thirty to have a chat about
that book. After three o'clock we were talking just as
we were setting up the show about the idea of
a sauna. And you've got some reno's that you're undertaking
right now, and you've had a bit of a bit
of an idea for a long time of having a sauna,
and you're kind of sort of asking the question, what's

(04:48):
the deal between infra red, the full wooden finish set
up with the coals and the buckets of water.

Speaker 4 (04:55):
Yeah, because it feels like there's a number of companies
that are selling these, I guess, modular saunas that you
just they deliver them, you install them. What are they like?

Speaker 5 (05:04):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (05:04):
Are they good? Are they worth it? Do you need
to go for the old school water on Cole's version
or the infrared ones up to scratch, which I want
to talk about Saunas. Yeah, and I've also come up
with an invention, an invention, and I'm just going to
decide whether I share it or not orhever, I just
go straight into the straight to the angel in Vestas

(05:26):
and try and get some capital behind it.

Speaker 3 (05:28):
It's a good idea, mate, But that is after three o'clock.
After two o'clock. Jason Alexander, well known act, obviously a
key part of the show Seinfeld. He was on a
recent podcast and he got talking about the idea of alcohol.
So he is a non drinker himself, but in this
particular podcast he floated the idea on what the planet

(05:53):
would be like if there was no alcohol. We did
have that audio, but we might play that. Here we go,
here's a little bit of it.

Speaker 5 (06:01):
Now.

Speaker 6 (06:02):
If alcohol were really to be almost gone, it was
not an industry anymore.

Speaker 4 (06:07):
Better we were, you know.

Speaker 6 (06:09):
I think of things like, I'm not a drinker, so
I go, you know, if alcohol was another thing, I
wouldn't miss it. But it is such an ingrained part
of our culture celebrations. Christenings, Am I happy about this
am I sad about this? Am I I don't know
quite how to feel. Part of me goes, Oh, we're
moving towards a healthier society. Isn't that a great thing?
But another part of me goes, but you know, look

(06:30):
at all the things we lose out of our human experiences.

Speaker 7 (06:34):
There was recently a story in The New York Times
about these nightclubs in Brooklyn that were packed on weekends,
but there was nobody drinking to the point where they couldn't.
Their economics didn't work. The club was filled, but then
people did but drink.

Speaker 4 (06:48):
The door charge wasn't gonna come.

Speaker 6 (06:49):
Yeah, Studio fifty four was alive today, it'd be closed, right,
it'd be Studio twenty one.

Speaker 4 (06:54):
Tell it's been a sign Feldian week, isn't it? Because
we used some audio from Jerry Seinfeld the other day,
and of course this is audio from the guy who
played George on one of the greatest sitcoms of all time.
But the question is would we lose something if we
lost alcohol from our society Because a lot of people
are pushing towards it, and young people are drinking less
and less, so it is heading that way.

Speaker 3 (07:16):
The trend is going that way.

Speaker 4 (07:17):
Yeah, but does alcohol do some good in our society
or do you just think the sooner we get rid
of all of it the better.

Speaker 3 (07:23):
Yeah, looking forward to your thoughts on that after two o'clock.
But right now being pink Shirt day today, it is
anti bullying. There is a new report that says workplace
bullying effects around one in five New Zealand workers about
twenty percent and they say cost businesses and estimated one
point three to four billion a year. So that's through
not going to work, loss, productivity, staff turnover, investigations and complaints.

(07:46):
The Mental Health Foundation they are part of this report.
They say bullying is often subtle, so some of the
bullion includes intimidation, humiliation. I think we can all get that.
Overloading staff with work is an interesting one, or setting
employees up to fail. And in response, Mental Health Minister
Matt Doosey has launched a workplace mental Health toolkit offering counseling, access,

(08:06):
while being guidance and digital support tools to help employers
improve workplace culture and productivity. But when it comes to
bullying in the workplace, how do you determine where the
line is between robust discussions that need to be had
with employees from time to time, and then bullying because
I fear we're in a culture now where it's very

(08:31):
easy to accuse your boss or a manager or anybody
else of bullying, and that line feels to be a
lot thinner, a lot thinner that it used to be
in previous generations. And I'll just give you an example
that you've got a worker who misses a deadline on
a report that we meant to deliver. Then the manager
comes up to that person and say, w how didn't

(08:52):
you deliver that report on time? This is a really
big stuff up, and we're going to have to do
something about this. There's a high potential there that that
employee turns around and say I got bullied by that manager.

Speaker 4 (09:05):
Yeah right, you know I'm saying that.

Speaker 3 (09:07):
They missed the deadline, they got dressed down by the manager.
And then the ability to turn around and say, yes,
I stuffed up, but I didn't deserve addressing down. That
is effectively bulliant.

Speaker 4 (09:17):
Well, looking at this particular Mental Health Foundation release, it
says workplace bullion can be the intimidation threatening behavior. It
might be humiliating people in front of other staff, but
a lot of what do you, but a lot of
what you don't see is convert behavior. Mental Health Foundation
Workplace Wellness lead Kylie Ryan said, like being overloaded with

(09:40):
work compared to colleagues or being set up to fail.
So how do you define that someone set you up
to fail as opposed to testing you to the limits
to see if you can thrive and being overloaded with work?
The example I gave before was in you know the
John Key National government. Right, they certainly overloaded Stephen Joyce

(10:00):
with work, but it wasn't bullying. They just thought he
was the most competent person to get it done.

Speaker 3 (10:05):
I assume he loved it as well. He's a very
good job.

Speaker 4 (10:07):
So if you're overloaded with work, then how do you
know that it's not a compliment? How do you know
that it's bullying? It just seems to be quite hard
to understand the stuff. There's obviously bullying that's clear, and
that's you know, forcing someone to the outside for who
they are, for things they can't.

Speaker 3 (10:22):
Control, something of a personal nature.

Speaker 4 (10:24):
Yeah, reputation, destruction, isolating people, you know, the high high
school stuff stuff. It's type of bullying. You know, threatening behavior,
the girls yelling, screaming, all that kind of stuff, you
can get it, but a lot of the other stuff
seems quite quite subtle, and I could see that you
could you could go on being overloaded with work this

(10:46):
I'm being bullied or I'm being set up to fail?
But are you being set up to fail? Or are
you being challenged?

Speaker 5 (10:52):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (10:53):
Yeah, I don't know. Do you think that? Say, for example,
you made a mistake on the show and I yelled
at you. Would that be bullied?

Speaker 5 (11:03):
No?

Speaker 8 (11:03):
Not to me?

Speaker 3 (11:05):
What if I if I did the reverse? Would you
think that was brilliant?

Speaker 4 (11:09):
You bullying me? You bullying?

Speaker 3 (11:16):
I'll take that as a big yess. I can feel
your pain, mate, right, Oh, one hundred and eighty ten
eighty is the number to call. So where is that
line between robust discussions and bullying? Tell us you thought's nineteen.
It's a serious matter, mate, Stop laughing. Nine two ninety
two is the text number. Really keen on your thoughts
on this because a lot of gray areas, So come
on through its seventeen pass one and coming up next

(11:36):
we are going to have a chat with employment lawyer
Max Whitehead.

Speaker 2 (11:40):
The big stories, the big issues, the big trends, and
everything in between.

Speaker 1 (11:45):
Matt Heath and Tayler Adams afternoons used talk said.

Speaker 5 (11:48):
Be.

Speaker 3 (11:50):
Very good afternoon to you. It is twenty pass one.
So there's a new report that's his workplace bullying effects
one in five New Zealand workers and cost businesses an
estimated one point three four billion a year. So where
is the line between robust discussions and bullying in the
modern workplace? Employment law expert Max Whitehead is on the
line and joins us. Now I get a.

Speaker 9 (12:08):
Max gooday, thank you for having me on.

Speaker 4 (12:11):
Oh, thank you for joining us. What behavior legally crosses
the line into workplace bullying? Max?

Speaker 10 (12:19):
Well, yeah, it's very you guys, your introduction was perfect.
I think it is a difficult subject. But the other
factor is it's the go to these days for every
personal grievance. The word bullying will be there somewhere, and
it's the automatic feeling that someone gets when they feel
a little offended about something. And look, the issue that

(12:41):
you described before probably a little bit robust in your discussion.
But for a manager to tell somebody they're not performing
quite up to standard, it's not only it's the illegal
responsibility to tell them that so then they can improve
their performance. But the reaction to that today is the
automatic that was bullying. It's because and even if you

(13:04):
said it nicely, it's deemed to be bulling.

Speaker 4 (13:06):
Yeah, it's interesting because you said it's the word feeling.
You're feeling, buddy, So is it the feeling or does
it have to be objectively provable? That was an intention
from the other worker to be bullying you. If you
see what I'm saying.

Speaker 10 (13:22):
Well, yeah, that legal definition is repeated unreasonable behavior directed
towards a person or a group that has causes. But
this is the keyword you're just bringing up, or is
likely to cause physical or psychological harm. Now, the difficulty
with this is that every individual is different. So some
people get offended very very easily, and some of us,

(13:45):
maybe you two might be the same as I am,
quite robust and put up with quite a bit of
offensive you know, language towards us and don't take it
personally because we've got to get on with life. And
you look, you two would probably get lots of it
in terms of texts and things.

Speaker 4 (13:59):
Yeah, so getting it right now, it's a matter of
the individual.

Speaker 10 (14:03):
Yeah, yeah, well yeah, And I've read Stephen Joyce's book
and he never talked about being over and I got
a feeling you're dead right.

Speaker 9 (14:10):
He loved it.

Speaker 10 (14:10):
But getting getting to it, it's the individual and some
people they work more than one minute after eight hours,
eight hours are gone. They feel it's just too much
for them. You know, it's it's horses for courses. But
the fact is today there are a lot of very
sensitive people out there and look you see young people
taking their life. So it's taken very very seriously amongst

(14:34):
these individuals, and the employer has a responsibility to ensure
that they protect it. But it gets to a point,
and this is the key to it. While an employer
can discipline somebody, while an employer can say to them,
you know, you need to improve your performance, how they
say that is going to be measured and the judiciary

(14:56):
will have a close look at it. And by the way,
the threshold to get a bullying complaint carried through is
not an easy one. The employee's got a lot of
responsibility to ensure that it's repeated behavior, it's unreasonable, and
it had that connotation in there that it probably was
going to make cause harm to some individual. So is

(15:19):
there an employe's got to measure up for each individual
they're going to be talking to.

Speaker 4 (15:24):
Is there an expectation just to flip it around the
other way on an employee e to be robust a
certain level of robustity, if there's one for a word,
I don't know if that is a.

Speaker 10 (15:36):
Word that which you mean, because I'm an old I'm
an old coat. So I've been around for a long
long time. So in my day, yes, there was, but
today no, there is. Certainly in our society today it's
less tolerant, tolerate. People don't have to tolerate aggressive behavior
as much as they did in the past.

Speaker 9 (15:57):
And so it's it's and as I.

Speaker 10 (16:00):
Mentioned before, it's the automatic go to for individuals who
feel a little bit wounded by somebody talking to them
and even criticize them subtly or even politely or nicely
to say, well, that's bullying, because it just seems to
be the go to right now.

Speaker 4 (16:16):
So how should it manage you handle, you know, conflict
or poor performance without moving into the risking the accusation
of bullying.

Speaker 10 (16:28):
Yeah, so if if a manager was talking to us three,
there would be quite a reasonable conversation and we'd be
pulled aside. Don't do it quietly, not do it publicly.
That's very important because that is bullying. Yep, and just say, look, Max,
I think you could have done that better. Unfortunately, it's
not the sort of standards we expect around here. And

(16:50):
what I'd like you to do in future is to
make sure that you don't do that again. And also
I prefer it if you would do something like this,
da da da da and give an example and carry on.
Now that's for Max White or one of you two,
but for another individual who's super sensitive, it's very much
a different way of tackling it. And it may well

(17:13):
be saying look, you know, I don't know. It be
a very careful conversation and I'm not really good at this,
but certainly would be pulling them aside and saying can
you would you like to bring somebody with you?

Speaker 9 (17:25):
Would you like to have someone.

Speaker 10 (17:26):
Because we need to have a direct talk about some
performance issues, but I'd like you to invite you to
bring someone you know to support you, or even if
you want to bring a representative.

Speaker 9 (17:37):
What about that is that's a starting point.

Speaker 3 (17:38):
Yeah, that's good. Well what about in the heat of
the moment?

Speaker 4 (17:40):
Max?

Speaker 3 (17:41):
And I've seen examples like this I'm not going to
name any names, but say, you know, there's a team
working on a particular project. Time is of the essence,
and something somebody doesn't do what they were meant to
do when the manager kind of screams across the room,
come on, get it together. What are you doing man?
And there's an elevated voice there. But the point is
that it's situational. Time is of the essence. That's not
a malicious yelling situation. But could that be classed as bulliant?

Speaker 10 (18:07):
Well, it's certainly could attract a complaint and with that
the legal definition would come into being.

Speaker 9 (18:14):
Is it repeated?

Speaker 10 (18:15):
Does the manager do this all the time? So if
somebody is yelling across the room yelling, it's not a
good good thing to do as well. But you know,
raising the point, and also the judiciary will have to
sit down and examine it and look at the circumstances
that where it was created and consider whether it was

(18:35):
reasonable at the time. And as I say, it's not
easy for employees to get a bullying complaint through because
the judiciary are quite used to these things now, and yeah,
you're right, they're finding them challenging. Is you guys are
painting the picture. It's not an easy way to get
through this, and every individual is different and should be
treated differently in accordance with their hype of character they

(18:58):
are now if by the way, this is important. If
an individual is constantly complaining about bullying and there's no
substance to it, or it's lacking some credibility, the employer
can discipline somebody saying, look, you need to be more
robust in this workplace.

Speaker 9 (19:17):
If not, look left's have a talk.

Speaker 10 (19:20):
An employer also may even say to the person, look,
you can go up and get some counseling if you
want to, because this is not working for either one
of us. You're not happy, and obviously we're not very
happy having to investigate all these bulling complaints. And by
the way, an employer is duty bound by law to

(19:40):
investigate every complaint they get unless it's completely outlandish. But
what I'm saying it's a difficult road to hope for
employers at the moment, and it's not an easy one.
But they've certainly got to be very very conscious of
this one.

Speaker 4 (19:55):
Yeah, an interesting situation when you're employing people if in
the interview process you test how robust they are before
they get in, because do you want to fill your
workplace with people that are that get their feelings hurt easily?

Speaker 5 (20:10):
You know?

Speaker 10 (20:10):
Yeah, well you know, and look, you guys are helping,
but it's elevating. The bullying issue is already well alive
and it's just my everyday event within my work in
doing employment law. But certainly I think, you know, being
in TB and Z, being in the in ZB right now,

(20:31):
there's hundreds of thousands of people, if not part of
a million people that have listening to this and being
more acutely where well, you know, I do feel offended
by a lot of things that people say to me,
and I do. Is that bullying or not? Maybe I
should challenge it, and that doesn't lead to a happy workplace,
I've got to say, But it's a possibility they could be,

(20:53):
and maybe they should because quite often iay to individuals,
you shouldn't have put up with us for so long.
You should have raised a complaint earlier. And by the way,
just quickly before we go further, if you're making a complaint,
and this is to any employee out there, if you're
making a complaint about bullying, put it in writing, because
Quite often employers will be very select of what they
remember you saying to them.

Speaker 3 (21:14):
It's great advice, makes really great to get your analysis.
Great to catch up. Thank you very much, have a
great afternoon.

Speaker 9 (21:21):
Well thank you for having me on.

Speaker 1 (21:22):
Yeah, that is Mikes Wyheed here yourself. Think it's the
mic Hosking breakfast.

Speaker 4 (21:27):
Not getting any easy for any New Zealand. Fuel bills
up two hundred and forty million, capacities cut three to
five percent. Now they're looking at cost cutting programs and jobs.
Nicol Rebbie Shankers WI is this it or is there
more to come?

Speaker 11 (21:37):
If you're referring to the financial outcome for the airline,
it's tied.

Speaker 4 (21:41):
Into how long the conflict's going to last.

Speaker 9 (21:43):
So the longer it lasts, the worse it could get
for you.

Speaker 11 (21:45):
Will necessarily get worse from a runreate perspective, but it
will mean that it weighs us down.

Speaker 4 (21:50):
As far as our financial result fuels down. So is
that not getting better for you? Fuel being down is helpful,
but it's all context. Isn't it normal? For us as
eighty five dollars a barrel, it's gone down from the
heady heights of two hundred to about one fifty, so
it's down but not down enough. Back Monday from six am,
the Mic Hosking Breakfast with Maylese News Talk said be.

Speaker 3 (22:11):
Twenty eight to two. So we've asked the question, where's
the line between robust discussions and bullying? No? Eight hundred
and eighty ten Eightyes, number to call. Plenty of texts
coming through the.

Speaker 4 (22:20):
Six says you're promoting yelling. What a disgustingly idiotic thing
to say. Raising your voice in any way in a
workplace can make people feel scared. Who's to say I've
done a bad job. How do you know if I've
made a mistake. I don't think you're promoting yelling. You
were really just asking the question. Yeah, and I.

Speaker 3 (22:36):
Actually disagree with that because I think there's levels of
yelling that when you're in an industry where time is
of the essence or safety is of the essence, then
using elevated you know, words or elevated voice is absolutely appropriate.
Screaming in someone's face and pulling them names, Clearly that's
not appropriate.

Speaker 4 (22:54):
Rachel says bullying is generally when the behavior is ongoing
and persistent, as opposed to being mean, which can be
a one off. Yeah, managers should know how to handle
individual employees if they are in a position to be
a manager. Yeah, I mean that's there are often managers
that aren't good at managing.

Speaker 5 (23:14):
Yep.

Speaker 4 (23:14):
That's a big problem in a lot of companies.

Speaker 3 (23:16):
That is very true. Yeah, So taking your calls on
oh eight hundred and eighty ten eighty, if you've been
through that process, if you've felt like you've been bullied
at your workplace, or if you're a manager that has
gone through that situation, whether it was was arbitration, whether
an employee took you all the way to the employment court,
what was that like, particularly if the accusation turned out

(23:37):
to not have any substance to it. Oh, eight hundred
eighty ten eighty. Is that number of cool headlines with
Raylean coming up?

Speaker 11 (23:43):
You've talk said, be headlines with your Ride, New Zealand's
number one taxi app, Download your Ride today. Later, stat
show fuel prices have continued to rise, but more slowly
than when the Iron War first broke out. Stats n
zed monthly inflation data shows the price of diesel has
almost doubled in the past year. Petrol is up by

(24:03):
almost a third. Investigators are still examining the scene of
a fate fire in Mardiho and christ Church overnight. One
child is dead and four other children and two adults
are in hospital. A shakeup for nineteen pieces of legislation
to make reference to the Treaty of Whetungi clearer, with
some laws stating they must give effect to the treaty

(24:25):
while others say honor or give regard to. A Global
Aid flotilla has once again set sail for Gaza. The
fleet has already been intercepted twice by Israeli forces and
international waters. After five years in the role, South Island
businesswoman Mary Divine is stepping down as Chief executive of
Foodstuff South Island at the end of the year. Our

(24:48):
alcohol free drinks actually healthier, What to buy and what
to watch out for. You can see more at inzherld
dot co dot Nz. To Matt Eath and Tyler Adams.

Speaker 3 (24:58):
Thank you very much.

Speaker 4 (24:59):
Raylan.

Speaker 3 (24:59):
It is twenty two to two and we're talking about
workplace Boollyn and new reports there is twenty percent of
Kiwi workers of face bullying and at cost business around
one point three four billion a year.

Speaker 4 (25:10):
And Tyler felt bullied. This morning because he wasn't wearing
a pink shirt for Pink Shirt Day.

Speaker 3 (25:15):
Pretty horrendous. Actually yeah, yeah, really hurt me.

Speaker 4 (25:17):
You got bullied in the left and welcome to the show.

Speaker 12 (25:22):
And I've been told to not use my real name
and not obviously not name the company. But I've been
through quite hand and horrendous time after twelve years doing
my job, and I was very good at it. And

(25:43):
every time I spoke out against what was going on
or I felt wasn't right, I was called into the office.
It was just constant, and I've been to I know
that a lot of my colleagues after speaking out, they
are put on a performance plan which leads to just disapine.

(26:08):
And it's just that's that's bullying. And I now realized
that our HR department was not interested. In fact, they were.

Speaker 13 (26:19):
Aware of what was going on.

Speaker 4 (26:21):
And can you sorry, and can you just describe exactly
what the bullying was, how it manifested. Sorry, I just
missed it.

Speaker 12 (26:27):
I was callding to a meeting. I've been doing this
job for twelve years, remember I've been I was called
into a meeting to say that they've got serious issues
about my work. And it was just they've noted down
the time and dates that I had actually spoken out

(26:48):
and did what I thought was right, spoken out, which
was wrong, And they've actually noted all that down. And
I was just in such a terrible state, and I
had some time off work. My doctor put me on
sickly and I had counseling. I've found it difficult to

(27:11):
go back to work and I just resign. But but
my colleagues, and there are lots of them, believe me.
They have been through an end exit package and they've
had to sign a disclaim where they're not allowed to
discuss what happened.

Speaker 14 (27:28):
HR are not.

Speaker 12 (27:29):
Supportive all the time. In fact, in my experience, they
definitely weren't. They They knew about the meeting, they knew
about the contents of the meeting. They did nothing to
help me.

Speaker 4 (27:41):
Yeah, well, I mean HR worked for the company. That's
that's a that's the thing you've got to remember with
human resources.

Speaker 12 (27:47):
I know, I knew that in my heart that I
just had to Yeah, you.

Speaker 4 (27:52):
Want to you want to try Did you seek did
you seek any legal help on this?

Speaker 12 (27:58):
I did? I did, yes, And the de lawyer advised
me that I've been off I've been off sick. I
was gone part of ninety days and there was nothing
I could do for unfair you know that I.

Speaker 5 (28:15):
Had to resign.

Speaker 14 (28:16):
There was something.

Speaker 12 (28:17):
I was very fortunate that I could resign. I have
no financial issues. Well, the other people that my colleagues
that were been in the jobs for fifteen sixteen years,
it went down the same pattern. They were put on performance.

(28:38):
They very experienced people as I was. We had backing
from lots of our our key support agencies that they
just wouldn't listen And as soon as you spoke up
or questioned. And I think everybody has the right to
question a something they worked for if they think that

(29:01):
they're not acting in the best interest. Everyone has the right.

Speaker 4 (29:06):
Absolutely right to speak up. And so how are you now?
So you said you went too counseling? Are you still?
Are you not working? Have you gone back to another job?
And how you how's your mental health at the moment?
And are you still on counseling still? If you don't
mind me.

Speaker 12 (29:20):
Answer, I think I was still angry still. I've gone
through various feelings that I felt angry because I knew
that I was good at my job and I had
lots of people this year that were I'd arranged to,
you know, go to Paul and be with and that

(29:41):
it can't happen now, And I feel angry for those
people that I was meant to support. They've got to
tell their story all over again and that's not right.

Speaker 3 (29:52):
Yeah, and thank you very much for giving us a
call and sorry you had to go through that, but
it sounds like you know things are on the up
for you, but really appreciate your phone call. What do
you say I one hundred and eighty ten eighty? Have
you been in a situation like Anne, or if you're
an employer, have you gone through the process someone accused
you or one of your managers of bullying and it

(30:12):
turned out that it was not proven, it was you know,
erroneous allegation. And what was that process like? Because that
takes a lot of money, a lot of time, and
a lot of loss productivity I mentioned.

Speaker 4 (30:24):
Yeah, well, the Mental Health Foundation has said before is
saying overloading work compared to colleagues or being set up
to fail as bullying Yeah as well? Yeah, so interesting
have you done that to an employee? Eighty?

Speaker 3 (30:36):
Is that number to call it?

Speaker 5 (30:36):
As?

Speaker 3 (30:37):
Seventeen to two.

Speaker 1 (30:38):
A fresh take on took back. It's Matt Heathen, Taylor
Adams afternoons have your say on eight hundred eighty ten
eighty youth talks'd.

Speaker 3 (30:46):
Be fourteen to two. We're talking about workplace bullying, Johnny,
you reckon Yelling's okay in certain situations.

Speaker 5 (30:54):
I think when you're out in the bush or you're
on the boat. I'm talking about rough trades. We you know,
you're working with machinery that can kill with one mistake
and you're overboard. One mistaken you're hit by a tree
that weighs six ton. One mistake in a wire rope

(31:15):
flies across the cat and ground and takes your head off.
The transport industry, the waterfront, where you're dealing with shipping containers,
with movements of containers in the lockyard. There are just
so many situations. I mean. I can also think back
of when I worked at the New Zealand Employment Service

(31:36):
as an intern in the nineties and we had retired
Judge Ellen mcconmbie. She passed away years ago. She used
to smoke a hundred cigarettes a day and her ent
tray was completely fall over, flying off the desk. People
have come in from income support being sent there, you know,
people on the doll this is the why he and
they'd come in and like, you know, absolute shocked and

(31:56):
shock and all that they've been sent out to find
a job and they've come in there and the big
clouds coming out the door of and a monthly meeting.
And I'd always bring this up because I've got asthma,
and I say, you know, it's not fair people, and
you know before the smoke free workplaces. Yeah, and you
just you just mind your plate by and all the

(32:18):
sort of you know, walking fifteen miles through the snow
and bear feet and all that.

Speaker 4 (32:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 9 (32:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (32:22):
So that's my point is there are jobs where people
can be really awful, that there are jobs where can
save your life.

Speaker 4 (32:29):
But with that yelling, say for a safety thing, it's like,
you know, watch out that kind of thing. Step back,
you know this is coming. Is that they're dying of
yelling or is it it is.

Speaker 3 (32:41):
That yeah, bluddy, you'll kill yourself your bloody more on.

Speaker 4 (32:46):
Is that that kind of yelling?

Speaker 14 (32:47):
Yeah, that's my dad.

Speaker 5 (32:48):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (32:50):
Yeah, So there's a bit of safety in there, but
there's a bit of personal abuse mixed in.

Speaker 3 (32:55):
It gets comforting that.

Speaker 5 (32:58):
You guys my point on it.

Speaker 3 (33:00):
Yeah, go on your John and I appreciate it, and
I tend to agree. One hundred and eighty teenagers number
to call nine text this textas.

Speaker 4 (33:07):
Is, this isn't This is from a tazman Hensen tanzen.
It's the feminization of everything. I hate to say it,
but we favor feelings over facts. We have turned workplaces
into girls boarding schools. We use emotional manipulation when we
can get can't get ahead through competence. It's the truth.
Every woman knows it. We just won't admit it. Men
don't have a chance against women in the modern workplace. Masculinity,

(33:29):
masculine behavior has been pathologized by woman like me who
know how to use this feminized culture to get ahead.
I now work in an all female office. Men just
didn't have a chance to survive. Of course, now we
are turning on each other. It's all so high school.

Speaker 3 (33:45):
Wow, Okay, is there any truth to that? Nine two
niney two.

Speaker 4 (33:49):
If you she says every woman knows it, is that right?
A woman running a secret cable of against us. Everyone
knows what they're doing.

Speaker 3 (33:58):
Please tell us so, eight hundred eighty day, if that
situation is going on, we need to know about.

Speaker 4 (34:01):
It'd be interesting if just get a snapshot into that
subdued That's that's Trevor and not Tenny. Good text afternoon Lands.
We had a manager at work who is x army,
lack of people skills and tends to shout at the
team members. Probably doesn't realize how he comes across because
he still lives in the military world. This I would

(34:22):
put down to lack of training within the company. That's
from James.

Speaker 3 (34:26):
Yeah, all right, keep those texts coming through. On nine two,
nine two, after the break, we're gonna have a chat
with Gary who's been through a mediation process for unfeared dismissal.
So we'll get to him next us ten to two.

Speaker 1 (34:37):
Matt Heath, Taylor Adams taking your calls on eight hundred
and eighty ten eighty. It's Matt Heath and Tylor Adams
Afternoons News DOGSB.

Speaker 3 (34:46):
News TALKSB. It is eight to two and now Gary
mentioned you before, but you have gone through a mediation
process for unfear dismissal. Were you the manager or were
you the employee?

Speaker 15 (34:59):
I was in the employee right.

Speaker 3 (35:01):
Okay, so tell us what happens.

Speaker 15 (35:03):
Okay. So Essentially, I had a disciplinary hearing meet with
my employers, my managers. I contacted a lawyer before that.
She said, no, they can't do it. As soon as
my lawyer. You get a chance after that to respond.
They got my lawyer's letter and sack me. So this
was eighteen months ago. It took sixteen months to get

(35:25):
to mediation at a cost of eighteen thousand dollars using
a lawyer. They did not enter the mediation in good faith.
They thumbed their nose at it. And now I'm being told, well,
nine months to a year to get to the tribuneral
at four and a half thousand dollars a day plus
subscrits costs. I think anyone who's been through this process

(35:46):
knows it's jumping out of the frying pan into the fire.
It's just it's ridiculous to come up to take so
long just to come up with what was happened and
what the regulations and the legislation says about how you
dismissed people, and how.

Speaker 4 (36:01):
Did so how did this all end up for you? Gary?

Speaker 15 (36:04):
Well, it's allgoing, you know, sixteen months down the track
and now I'm looking at another nine months to a
year of legal fees and then the cost of going
to the tribunal. I know that they're going to they
need to change the system because there must be people
out there, have got a mortgage, kids, they lose their job,
they just want to find out whether they were sacked fairly.

(36:28):
And to get to that point it's lengthy, it's expensive,
and there's damages your health.

Speaker 4 (36:35):
Have you have you gone on to other employment?

Speaker 16 (36:37):
Gary, Yeah, I.

Speaker 15 (36:39):
Had to adapt. I stopped being employed directly by a
company and became a subcontractor. So that's freed me up.
But in the town like this, it was all over
an NDA non disclosure agreement that the company signed looking
for the government, you know, and we weren't even aware
of these agreements, right. So yeah, but the lawyers, you're

(37:01):
looking at four to four hundred and fifty dollars an
hour for a lawyer and a blue lawyer, and that
that shoes through the funds very quickly.

Speaker 4 (37:07):
And does your do your lawyer think that in the
end you will be successful?

Speaker 15 (37:14):
Well, initially are going they're not going to take your
case on Maybe they're going to lose. So yeah, she said,
most definitely. As time's gone on, other factors have come in,
and I suppose you're when you're in this situation, you're
told relentlessly you can't talk about it. It's all confidential,
no social media know anything else, so they keep it quiet,

(37:37):
and that protects bad employers and the way they work.
I believe. I think the system is designed by the
lawyers and the employers and the employees. You know, they
get left mine.

Speaker 4 (37:49):
Oh, thank you so much for you call. Gary.

Speaker 3 (37:51):
Sounds stressful what you've gone through, Gary, But hopefully are
you come out well on the other side, mate, thanks
for giving us a buzz well.

Speaker 4 (37:56):
Workplace bullying is defined as repeated unreasonable behavior directed towards
a worker or group of workers that creates a risk
to health and safety, including physical or psychological harm.

Speaker 3 (38:08):
Hmmmm, Okay, it seems very gray.

Speaker 4 (38:12):
It does very ambiguous, because what is considered unreasonable and
what is considered directed towards and what is considered a
risk to your psychological harm is all up for debate.

Speaker 3 (38:27):
Very objective because for one person would they wouldn't even
notice water for Duckt's back for the same thing that
would deeply wound and psychologically scar someone else. Yep, a
lot of gray and that very complex, but enjoyed that
discussion anyway.

Speaker 4 (38:40):
Tyler, you're a loser for not wearing a pink shirt
today for pink shirt bullying day.

Speaker 3 (38:44):
Right back, e, you're numpty.

Speaker 4 (38:45):
You've embarrassed yourself. You also embarrassed yourself with the word numpty.

Speaker 3 (38:50):
Great discussion, Thank you very much. Coming up. I love you, Yeah,
I love you too, mate, Come it up after two o'clock.
Would the world be a better place if alcohol didn't exist?
Will be more very shortly news coming.

Speaker 1 (39:03):
Up, talking with you all after that. It's Matt Heathan
Taylor Adams afternoons news talks.

Speaker 9 (39:12):
It'd be.

Speaker 3 (39:14):
Very good afternoon. Youre welcome back into the show seven past.
Too great to have your company on a Friday afternoon.
So comedian and actor Jason Alexander, of course, of Seinfeld
fame and his recent podcasts. Really no, really, he was
talking about the huge drop off in alcohol consumption so
globally it's at its lowest rate since the nineteen thirties,
which has seen get this, eight hundred and thirty billion

(39:35):
dollars of liquor stocks wiped off the market. Wineries all
over the world are backed up, resulting in wine revenue
down about a billion dollars last year. Yeah, big numbers.
But he went a little bit further during that chat
with a thought experiment of what the world would be
like with no alcohol.

Speaker 6 (39:53):
If alcohol were really to be almost gone, it was
not an industry anymore? Are we better offer we worse?

Speaker 17 (39:59):
You know?

Speaker 6 (39:59):
I think of things like, I'm not a drinker, so
I go. You know, alcohol was another thing. I wouldn't
miss it. But it is such an ingrand part of
our culture, celebrations, christenings. Am I happy about this? Am
I sad about this? Am? I? I don't know quite
how to feel. Part of me goes, Oh, we're moving
towards a healthier society. Isn't that a great thing? And
another part of me goes, But you know, look at

(40:19):
all the things we lose out of our human experience.

Speaker 7 (40:22):
There was recently a story in The New York Times
about these nightclubs in Brooklyn that were packed on weekends,
but there was nobody drinking to the point where they couldn't.
Their economics didn't work. The club was filled, but then
people did, but the.

Speaker 4 (40:35):
Door charge wasn't going to cover. Studio fifty four was
a lie. Today it'd be closed right, it'd be Studio twenty.

Speaker 3 (40:41):
One, George Costanza.

Speaker 4 (40:44):
Yes, so that's the question, isn't it? Would we be
better off or worse off if there was no alcohol
in our society, if alcohol pretty much disappeared, would on
balance society be worse off or better off? It's an
interesting question, it is, I, George Costanza.

Speaker 3 (41:03):
One hundred and eighty ten eighty is that number to call?
Nine two? Nine two? Is the Teachs number? Tell us
what you think I mean it is. It's an interesting
thought experiment. I think I know which way I'm leaning. Okay,
I'm leaning. I'll say right now, I think the world
would be worse off without alcohol. I think on balance,
it provides more to society than it takes away.

Speaker 4 (41:23):
Well, there are lots of societies in the world that
don't have alcohol. Although my dad was working in Saudi
Arabia for a while and he said, there is actually
caught a lot of alcohol there, right, even you know
it just stakes Saudi Arabia for example. Yeah, obviously if
you're expats you can drink there. But also there's a
lot of people fanging down to Kouw eight for a
drink fair enough too, and a lot of people. There's
a lot of alcoholics in those parts of the world,

(41:45):
people drinking just horrific alcohol because it's not possible to
get good alcohol. But anyway, let's talk about our society.
Let's talk about New Zealand. Yes, would New Zealand be
better off or worse off if it didn't have alcohol?
The six says absolutely nothing good has ever come from alcohol.
I love the show, but your constant promotion of alcohol
is a weak point. Alcohol makes people violent. How can

(42:06):
a thing that makes people blackout and vomit have their
stomachs pumped? How can that be legal? I sometimes feel
I'm going crazy? How can it be normal for people
to poison themselves and assault others? Whereas this Texas says, hey,
lads love the show, to love the shows with different opinions,
and no alcohol would mean no beers on site and
about an hour and a half. I see, no alcohol

(42:26):
would mean no beers on site in about half an hour,
So obviously they're expecting beers around four o'clock. That would
not be good, would it. Well, that's the question.

Speaker 3 (42:35):
Yeah, well spot on. I mean that is a real
life example that would not be good with it, Yeah,
you're about Friday drinks knockoff time, and you wouldn't be
having your drinks.

Speaker 4 (42:43):
So what do you say?

Speaker 3 (42:43):
Oh, e one hundred and eighty ten eighty. So in
New Zealand society, because no doubt about it, the anti
alcohol movement has grown rapidly and that's a lot of
that's down to personal choice, but also within policy, you know,
policy regulators. You see it time and time again that
there's this big pushback on alcohol. So if alcohol didn't exist,
would that be a good thing? Would that be a

(43:03):
bad thing for New Zealand?

Speaker 4 (43:05):
Yeah, because I mean is there harm and someone having
three wines with dinner at a restaurant?

Speaker 3 (43:13):
Definitely not.

Speaker 4 (43:14):
I went out to a restaurant and watched Tracy. I
wasn't drinking, us driving, and I watched her have three
wines at dinner and she was great.

Speaker 3 (43:22):
She would have been very happy. She was, Yeah, had
a great glow on her conversation got better and better, better,
she had a great time. So Tracy, it was absolutely
no harm in that. Yeah, as far as I could
see a lot of freedom in that.

Speaker 4 (43:34):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (43:34):
Oh, eight hundred eighty ten and eighty is that number
called nine two nine two? So would New Zealand, be
a bit of society without alcohol? Tell us your view
back very shortly. It is eleven past two.

Speaker 1 (43:48):
Your home of afternoon Talk Mad Heathen Taylor Adams Afternoons
call Oh eight hundred eighty ten eighty youth Talk.

Speaker 4 (43:55):
Said be.

Speaker 3 (43:58):
Fourteen past two. So we're talking about alcohol in society.
This is on the back of a podcast with a
well known actor, comedian Jason Alexander of sein Filed Fame,
who mentioned what society would be like without any alcohol.
Would that be a net positive or a net niggative?
O eight hundred and eighty ten eighty keen on your views.

Speaker 4 (44:16):
The text is nobody needs alcohol. Nobody would be worse
self without it. Obviously I'm a non drinker, but there
are no benefits. It's a toxin to our bodies. This
textas says, I'll be at Bedford Soda and Liquor in
fifteen minutes. I'll let you know the answer to this
highly complex question that you're proposing please do. That's coincidence
because Bedford Soda and Liquor, which is a bar owned

(44:39):
by one Jeremy Wells Right and Ponsonby, was where I
met my partner Tracy. There you go meet positive over
some drinks. Yeah, there you go. Well, we were both
drinking separately and then drinking together. Those there are people,
says the Texter, who will drink have a drink at
the airport no matter what time they're flying. I am
one of those people. Oh okay, those airport beers are

(45:02):
the best. Mary, Welcome to the show. Oh sorry, Mary,
are you there? Sorry I didn't have your phone on. Apologies.
Welcome to the cheers.

Speaker 13 (45:12):
Thank you. I just want to show you the story
of my parents. My dad used to make homebrew beer
and he was a builder, and he enjoyed a beer
at the end of the day. And I think yeast
is probably good in good proportions. But when he married
my mum, who had been a nurse, she saw the

(45:34):
negative side of alcohol. Alcoholism waits, the effect on the liver.
She just saw the other side of the story. And
she became what they call a pioneer. She had a
little badge pioneer And yeah, and a pioneer is what

(45:56):
they do is they choose not to drink to support
people who shouldn't.

Speaker 4 (46:04):
Drink, right, And how do they go about that? How
does it work out?

Speaker 13 (46:09):
Well, if you're on an occasion, for example, a wedding
and everyone's making toasts and you're an alcoholic and you
just sort of dried out. One drink can set you off,
you know, down that dangerous road again. And so if
there's someone else who's drinking an orange juice, and that's

(46:29):
kind of like moral support. And so that was her
nursing experience, and she was a pionier, and so my
dad did, okay, I'll do it too, and they neither
of them drink alcohol, and I think we probably had
a healthier family life. We definitely were better off in

(46:55):
terms of money because alcohol costs money. We didn't buy any.
But I had to say that when I got a
bit older and I said to my boyfriend, you know,
I'll make you a Bacadian coake. I had no idea
here how much Bacardi and how much coke to put.

Speaker 8 (47:11):
In the glass.

Speaker 4 (47:12):
Imagine you put a lot of Bacardi and not much coke.

Speaker 13 (47:16):
So you know, maybe if you appearents that drink, you
sort of learned how to drink properly. So but that
was the experience of my parents, and probably when I
was about forty, I came across you know, another pioneer,
and there was something about him and the way he
did things that kind of impressed me, and I thought,
what the heck, I think i'd do it too. So

(47:38):
I am now nearly seventy.

Speaker 4 (47:40):
God, do you sound like you're in your twenties?

Speaker 13 (47:42):
Murray, Oh, you're so nice.

Speaker 4 (47:45):
It's true though I thought we were talking someone that
was just talking about had just left home. You have
a very youthful voice.

Speaker 13 (47:54):
Oh, very kind of you, very kind. So I would
say for thirty years I haven't had any alcohol, and
to be honest, I think I'm a healthier, richer, better
off person for it.

Speaker 4 (48:05):
Do you think I mean that's you, that's your family.
What about if we extended out to the whole of society.
Do you think, on balance, if there was alcohol just
didn't exist in our society at all, on balance, the
world would be a better place.

Speaker 13 (48:21):
Well, there's been such a massive push to stop smoking.
And I must have had interesting parents because they said
to me they didn't mind if I smoked, and I did,
and I also gave that up, you know, later on
in life as well. But I think smoking, maybe it

(48:43):
definitely affects the person that smoked, and it can maybe
have an effect on people that are in the same room,
but not like alcohol. Because someone who drinks too much,
they crashed their car, they crashed into other people. They
can make people into invalids. They can cause such terrible damage.

(49:06):
An alcoholic parent can shaft a family and children. I
think alcohol is far worse than cigarettes.

Speaker 4 (49:14):
Yeah, it's interesting. I was talking about this with my
sixteen year old son the other day. We're imagining if
alcohol didn't exist, and then it was invented and suddenly
it came into society and you had just a typical
Saturday night on alcohol in this country. Imagine the news.
Imagine all the stories about this horror new drug that
had been invented and what people were doing. People were

(49:34):
blacking out, they were vomiting, they were ending up in hospital,
they were fighting. It would absolutely be a giant like panic. Yeah,
there'd be an absolute terror if it wasn't normalized into
our society.

Speaker 13 (49:53):
I think at the cost of living crisis, and we
keep hearing about that it is a cost of living crisis.
And then I see thirty seven thousand we went to
a six sixty concert, And then I see, you know
how many people go to the Warriors games. I'm touching
myself saying it's the cost of living crisis. But I
think that scenario that, I mean, we can survive without alcohol.

(50:15):
I have done it for thirty years. It's something that
we could give up through a world.

Speaker 3 (50:22):
Yeah, good on you, Mary, thank you.

Speaker 4 (50:23):
I mean the rest of the results. Sorry you go, Tyler.

Speaker 3 (50:25):
Sorry, I just see the more to think about this,
and I hear what you're saying, Mary, And my argument why,
I think it's a net positive as I think across
human history it has been used for very good things.
You know, there's been research and that's how we got
together as tribes and built these societies. And the social
lubrication and all of those cliches that we associate with alcohol.
But whether we lost that and we'd pick up those

(50:47):
social abilities without it, I don't know. That's the big question.
But I still think for the most part, yes, there's
a lot of problems with alcohol, but those good things
about being able to go out and have a chat
with a mate at a bar with a beer, or
those celebrations with family and having a bit of ignog
or as you say Bacardian rum if you're in the
US Aha, those aspects are a beautiful part of who

(51:09):
we are as humanity and have helped us along the
way over the last twenty thousand years. But I could
be wrong on that, Mary, What do you reckon?

Speaker 1 (51:19):
Well?

Speaker 13 (51:19):
I still you know, I see smoke free signs everywhere,
and I just always think to myself, but alcohol does
fimal damage.

Speaker 4 (51:27):
No, thank you so much for your call, Mary, We
appreciate it. It's an interesting one, isn't that because you
go well, as I was saying before, So I met
my lovely partner at a bar at Bedford Soda and Liquor,
right Gray bar, and we were both drinking. We're both
having to drink, you know.

Speaker 5 (51:46):
Yep.

Speaker 4 (51:47):
So that's just assuming that you wouldn't meet someone if
you were sober, if there was no alcohol. I mean,
obviously society sucists with there's no alcohol and people are
still meeting each other.

Speaker 3 (51:56):
Yeah, yeah, they find a way, love finds a way.

Speaker 4 (51:58):
But you wouldn't say that these societies that have no
alcohol are less violent or treat their woman. In fact,
a lot of these no alcohol societies treat their woman
very poorly. Yep, yeah, very poorly. So you know, there
might be other aspects going on, But there's not a
definite one. For one, if you don't have any articles

(52:20):
of society, suddenly it's a very successful society where everyone's
treated well.

Speaker 3 (52:24):
That is true. Yeah, what do you say? I e
one hundred eighty ten eighty. So if alcohol ceased to exist,
and it certainly seems to be trending that direction at
the moment, would that make society a better or worse place?
Nineteen nine two is the text. It's twenty two pus.

Speaker 1 (52:38):
Two Matt Heathen, Taylor Adams afternoons call oh, eight hundred
eighty ten eighty on news Talks'd be.

Speaker 3 (52:48):
Twenty five pass too, So would the world? Would New
Zealand be a better society without alcohol? Or would it
be worse off if alcohol fell by the wayside? I
had one hundred eighty ten eighty is that number to call?

Speaker 4 (52:59):
Tony?

Speaker 3 (53:00):
How are you this afternoon?

Speaker 5 (53:02):
Hey?

Speaker 18 (53:02):
Let's yeah, I'm good. Hey, guys, think on balance, who
would be worse off? There's no doubt that there's harm
comes from alcohol. You know, no one can deny that.
Through health of the individuals or you know, issues that occur,
car smashes, you know, befow down on downtown. You know
two in the morning, whatever it might be. But as

(53:23):
you said, Tyler, just in that last call, you know,
it is a social lubricant and a lot of good
comes from you know, are being able to socialize with alcohol.
But I actually think this is a it's a fantasy
situation that you're considering because all you do, you're talking
about no alcohol, but the situation will be no legal alcohol. Yeah,

(53:45):
just drive sales, your drive sales underground. Look what happened
in prohibition in the nineteen twenties and thirties in the US.
You know, it was just the gang's al capone, all
those guys. It would just be mayhem. And alcohol is
such an easy thing to make, you know, I mean,
it occurs a great deal of nature. And so all
you do is you'd funnel all of the sales of

(54:07):
the people who wanted to keep continue drinking. And there
would be a lot of people wanted to keep continue drinking.
It's funnel all that cash into the well, I guess,
into the gags. So really there's there's there's no circumstance
where alcohol won't exist. You can you can curtail sales.
And I think that at the moment, the directions about
right in terms of making it a health issue, you know,

(54:28):
highlighting the fact that it's it's not it's not great
for your body, but you know, you treat it with
respect and it won't kill you over the course of
your life. So all in all, I think that there's
a there's a benefit. It might be a marginal benefit,
but I think there is a benefit to retaining sales.

Speaker 4 (54:45):
To fair point you make.

Speaker 3 (54:46):
But I look at some of those stats, Tony, and
it seems to be a self enforced prohibition, if you will.
That consumption of alcohol is at the lowest levels since
that decade, and part of the reason that that consumption
was so low was because of prohibition.

Speaker 4 (55:01):
So it seems like no in consumption. I think consumption
was actually through the roof.

Speaker 3 (55:05):
Yeah, yeah, true, true, but yeah. But the point is
that trenders is going south anyway. So if if people
are still making that personal choice and it goes lower
and lower and lower, do you does that change anything
for your argument that whether it would be a good
or bad thing for society or do you think if
you know, people choose to not drink alcohol more and more,
that will be detrimental.

Speaker 18 (55:26):
I think I think like a lowering consumption is a
great thing. Don't get me wrong, I'm not I'm not
promoting you know, binge drinking or whatever it might be.
And and you know, back back in the day, that's
what we did. You know, you went out to get
a hammered. You didn't go out to uh, you know,
have a few few steams with your mates. You know,
if you could walk out the door or wasn't a
particularly good night. So you know, those days have gone,

(55:48):
and that's a that's a great thing. So, you know,
coming at it from a health perspective, a general population
physical health, I think it's a good thing. But but
going out for a few beers or a glass of
wine around a meal with your with your friends, to
socialize like that, and you know some people don't may
not want to have alcohol, but to try and curtail
all alcohol sales, it's just it's fantasy.

Speaker 4 (56:10):
Do you think that there's a desire in humans to
alter the state of their mind, because we're getting a
bunch of texts through from young people saying we don't
drink anymore. But you know they're they're they're on m
dm A. You know, they're taking pills in the weekend
and when you talk to them. It's part of it
is because everyone's got a phone now, So if you
get drunk and sloppy and forget where you are, then

(56:32):
someone's going to film it, and it's humiliating. Whereas whereas
they can you know, you can take a pill and
dance all night and or whatever, there's still an element
of control to it. Do you think that humans will
find a way to get out of it? No matter
what is what I'm asking, Yeah, I do.

Speaker 18 (56:48):
I mean these days the sport for choice, you know,
as you say, M D M A, or there's you know,
all sorts of other things. And even even back in
the day there was sort of natural or things occurring
in nature like that Tura, which you know that's sort
of crap, is going to throw you up completely.

Speaker 3 (57:09):
Horror stories.

Speaker 16 (57:11):
I'm not speaking from personal experience here, but you know what,
I actually agree with you that people will find ways
to alter the mind, and that's alcohol is part of
the equation.

Speaker 4 (57:23):
Yeah, hey, thank for you, cal Tony, appreciate it.

Speaker 3 (57:25):
Yeah, great thoughts. A couple of teachs coming through before
we got to get to the headlines.

Speaker 4 (57:30):
I had this really good one here whereas a guy.

Speaker 3 (57:33):
Guys, I saw it was from a young person. Wasn't
a young person?

Speaker 4 (57:39):
No, it was it was this one. Look the very
unprofessional of me.

Speaker 3 (57:43):
There's just so many teachers to come through.

Speaker 4 (57:45):
The point was it was talking of a parent talking
about their kids. Now boys, so many texts coming through
kids these days aren't drinking. I've got a seventeen year
old boy, he's popular member of the First fifteen, and
all those boys don't drink. They get together on Saturday
nights and do pot like meals or play board games
well with their group of friends. First fifteen. What's happen

(58:08):
into the world When I was his age, I ordering
passed out in a bush somewhere or at some party.
It's really really weird.

Speaker 3 (58:16):
That's very different. Yeah, is that what you're seeing? As
a Pierodo One hundred and eighty ten eighty is the
number to call?

Speaker 4 (58:21):
Begvery shortly.

Speaker 3 (58:22):
Headlines coming up with railing.

Speaker 11 (58:25):
Us talk said be headlines with your Ride, New Zealand's
number one taxi app Download your Ride today. The government's
confirmed the social media ban for under sixteen's is on hold.
Education Minister Erica Stanford says the government steadily progressing with
work on a social media and online harm policy and

(58:45):
due to this, Catherine Wed's bill has been deprioritized. Fuel, bread, meat,
and chocolates all keep getting more expensive. LAATE stat Sense
data shows average diesel prices have almost doubled since the
Iran War broke out. Average petrol prices have risen about
thirty four percent. The government's sticking with its cost cut

(59:07):
school lunches model for another year. Associate Education Minister David
Seymour today announced this year's budget includes two hundred and
twelve million dollars to extend the program. There are reports
of injuries after a serious crash that has closed State
Highway One near Canterbury's at Rakaya. Police say the area
will be blocked for a significant period of time. What's

(59:30):
behind Fisher and pikel Healthcare's fall from favor You can
read more at inzdherld dot co dot nzet. Back to
Matteth and Tyler Adams.

Speaker 3 (59:39):
Thank you very much, Ray Lean. So we're talking about
the idea of would society be better off with no
alcohol or would it be a net negative? This is
after a podcast with Jason Alexander, well known actor, comedian
of Seinfeld fame, of course, so keen on your views.
Do you think it would be a net positive for
New Zealand if alcohol consumption continue to go down or

(01:00:00):
didn't exist at all? Nine to two nine two is
the text, get a donner. How are you this afternoon?

Speaker 11 (01:00:07):
Hi?

Speaker 5 (01:00:07):
How are you good?

Speaker 3 (01:00:08):
It's nice to chance, So what's your thoughts?

Speaker 19 (01:00:11):
Well, as one of the other gentlemen said, it's not
going to measure whether we've been do anything with it.

Speaker 5 (01:00:18):
People are going to.

Speaker 19 (01:00:19):
Find a way of doing.

Speaker 16 (01:00:20):
It, no matter what.

Speaker 19 (01:00:22):
I mean. When I was growing up, my father owned
a manufacturing company. He would have a shandy with the
boys on a Friday afternoon and then he'd leave them
to it because that's what he drank once a week.

Speaker 3 (01:00:34):
Saw well there was him.

Speaker 19 (01:00:37):
My mother would have sort of like half a glass
of cherry on a Friday afternoon. I mean, they didn't drink.
I grew up to be seventeen eighteen, and I drank
like a fish. But I also took everything else that
was not nailed down until I was in my early
twenties and sort of got over myself. Now we've got friend,

(01:01:01):
a friend who is a chronic alcoholic. He's been in
jail four or five times, and he's never learned at
It doesn't matter what you do to him. He is
going to find a way to drink. It is what
it is.

Speaker 4 (01:01:16):
Are they?

Speaker 7 (01:01:17):
You know?

Speaker 3 (01:01:17):
That's sad outliers, aren't they?

Speaker 4 (01:01:19):
Donna?

Speaker 3 (01:01:19):
Really And it's not phrasing, but you know we I
have a lot of sympathy for people that have real
trouble with alcohol, but they exist in society and hopefully
it is a smaller proportion than those that can have
a drink and enjoy the positives of it.

Speaker 19 (01:01:35):
I mean, I met my husband in an Irish part
and you know, he was with this friend and he'd
left him in so many pubs because he used to
take one beer too many and he turned into a
completely different person and it was just run before he
picked a fight.

Speaker 4 (01:01:52):
Right, Yeah. I mean, I'm always surprised by those people,
and I've done a few of my time that get
violent when they're drinking. Then they continue drinking drinking. If
you're that kind of person, surely you've got to stop drinking, you.

Speaker 19 (01:02:04):
Know, not if you're an alcoholic.

Speaker 2 (01:02:07):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:02:07):
That's the thing, isn't it?

Speaker 3 (01:02:09):
But it is you know, I mean, it's almost down
the middle. Really, you get the people who are lions
when they drink and they get aggressive. Then you get
the monkeys who clown it up when they drink.

Speaker 19 (01:02:17):
And exactly.

Speaker 3 (01:02:19):
You know, if you're a monkey, you might be you
might embarrass yourself on regular occasions, as I have, But
if you're a lion, that's far more damaging, you know,
to your connections long term.

Speaker 19 (01:02:29):
Yeah, and I mean my three kids are in their
footies now. They don't well, they drink, but you know
they might have a bottle between them when they're together.
Once you'd be down again.

Speaker 5 (01:02:44):
M hm.

Speaker 19 (01:02:45):
And the it's the choice. But there was also a
lot more low alcohol beers and wines out there, which
tastes just as good.

Speaker 4 (01:02:55):
Yeah, I don't. I don't know if they taste that
this is good. If I'm not drinking, I'm going to
have like a zero O cohold beer. But I only
have one and then I'm on the coats.

Speaker 3 (01:03:04):
You can't have an who whole night. It's not a
sision beer zero.

Speaker 4 (01:03:08):
It turns out I didn't love beer. I loved.

Speaker 3 (01:03:12):
I loved the buzz. You know, there's a nice buzz
for a lot of people.

Speaker 19 (01:03:16):
When we got married, we had sparkling grape juice.

Speaker 15 (01:03:21):
That was it.

Speaker 4 (01:03:22):
Wow, did you warn people at the wedding that there's
going to be no alcohol?

Speaker 19 (01:03:27):
We did, given a crate of reds and whites so
they could have it if they wanted, But we did
it so that, you know, the kids that were there
could run around with champagne glasses full of bubbles without
feeling weird.

Speaker 3 (01:03:44):
Yeah, yeah, Donna, thank you very much. So you got
to take the good with the bad, says Donna. Do
you agree? I eight hundred and eighty ten eighty.

Speaker 4 (01:03:52):
Are the sixes. I worked with young guys who don't
drink alcohol a lot, but I noticed they often mentioned cocaine,
meth and other drugs and common use in its place,
So maybe it's a case of the least harmful thing. Also,
without alcohol, I never would have managed to snare my
now partner of thirty.

Speaker 3 (01:04:09):
Yeah, keep those things coming through A nineteen ninety two
of Vaughn. What's your thoughts about this?

Speaker 20 (01:04:15):
If you take the alcohol away, they don't look for alternitives.
I have an example of that. There are a number
of compounds around the world that have decided to go
no alcohol for their workers, and they have substituted outer
in his various forms in the drug form, and I
believe they're going to have just as many problems then

(01:04:37):
as they did with alcohol. Yeah, myself, I believe a
lot of it is parents do not take control of
their children, and I don't care how old.

Speaker 3 (01:04:47):
A child is.

Speaker 20 (01:04:48):
I'm the mother that grounded a twenty two year old
for doing to come home drunk.

Speaker 4 (01:04:54):
Wow, how did you? How did you enforce a grounding
on a twenty two year old?

Speaker 20 (01:04:58):
I took his keys off him and gave him the rules.

Speaker 4 (01:05:01):
Well, and how did he He stayed living with you?
He stayed.

Speaker 20 (01:05:08):
I heard the excuses he gave on the bone. He
didn't say my mother to the car.

Speaker 21 (01:05:13):
Keys, or.

Speaker 20 (01:05:15):
He accepted, he acknowledged that he had done wrong. He's
also the boy that pushed his car from Wuner's Hotel
all the way through basically the Redwood Hotel, which is
the Fear's way out of town. He pushed his motorbike
rather than rise at home because he was drunk. So
he got a clap on the back to that one.

Speaker 8 (01:05:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 20 (01:05:36):
Those that my customers that found the price through ded
the beer, they've gone back to Home Bride.

Speaker 19 (01:05:42):
They've also gone.

Speaker 20 (01:05:43):
Back to making their own books, making their own spirits,
So prohibession is it going to solve the problem?

Speaker 3 (01:05:50):
News dog zedbe it is seventeen to three.

Speaker 4 (01:05:52):
Did someone press the wrong button and then then let
out an.

Speaker 3 (01:05:57):
Explicative someone did apparently, Well, we'll get to the bottom
of apologies.

Speaker 4 (01:06:01):
Yeah, highly unprofessional? Unprofessional.

Speaker 3 (01:06:04):
Look in our defense, there's been something going on with
the lights in the system, and we're really join that
conversation with the one.

Speaker 4 (01:06:09):
Yeah, but you know, yeah, so I pressed the wrong
button and then yeah, and then it's one of us
then said something we shouldn't have. So apologies.

Speaker 14 (01:06:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:06:21):
Should we go get a drink?

Speaker 7 (01:06:22):
Mate?

Speaker 4 (01:06:22):
Yeah? Yeah, well I mean, yeah, we're talking about alcohol.
I'm completely sober, have been for some time. Yeah, an,
yet I can commit horrific broadcasting crimes.

Speaker 3 (01:06:32):
So taking your calls and thank you very much for
the taks coming through eight hundred eighty is love It
a call for a lot of people.

Speaker 4 (01:06:38):
Saying yes you do. Yep. Yeah, at least the bay
doesn't exist anymore. Exactly, I might make a complain about myself.

Speaker 3 (01:06:48):
So the question we've put to you is would a
society be better off with no alcohol or would that
be a negative for society. Does alcohol, by and large
have a lot of positives for humanity? What do you say, Nick?

Speaker 8 (01:07:03):
I think alcohol sort of mates getting a date a
lot harder. I lack a bit rather, But you know,
look what you were gesturing and joking was going and
get a drink, mate, and you had a laugh about it,
which kind of tentatively feeds into what I was going
to suggest, and that is, you know why we drank
so much years ago? If you look at people like

(01:07:23):
Foster Brooks. I don't know if you've heard of him.
They played the lovable drunk Dean Martin, W. C. Fields
even drunk in the movies. We're all influenced by what
we see. Hey man, it's cool to be off your
trolley and yeahhoo up. But you know, like Dean Martin,
he was never drunk. A couple of drinks, but it comes.

Speaker 4 (01:07:42):
Up, was Dean Martin never drunk? Because I've watched so
much so that was all about.

Speaker 8 (01:07:48):
He was being interviewed once and I saw the interview,
It's on the internet somewhere, and he said he was
asked a question, was that really apple juice? On stage?

Speaker 3 (01:07:57):
Were you?

Speaker 8 (01:07:57):
Are you really drunk? On stage and he said, listen,
do you think that any company, entertainment company was effect
like Warner Brothers would spend millions of dollars on a
fall down drunk to run the Dean Martin Show.

Speaker 3 (01:08:15):
Nick, No, I've just looked it up and you were
spot on. De Manin's reputation as a heavy drinker was
largely a keithfully crafted stage PERSONA.

Speaker 8 (01:08:22):
Wow, exactly that.

Speaker 5 (01:08:26):
There are.

Speaker 8 (01:08:26):
I mean it used to say you haven't been truly drunk,
continue can lie on the floor without holding on and yeah,
and I mean we're laughing about it. But this is
what influenced the parents, and you know, Terry and Due
in a comedy TV show, and I'm sure it came
out here. It was in the round in the eighties
eight seventies, and every time there was a crisis, the

(01:08:48):
first thing that I need a drink, and they'd hit
the booze cabinet when they come in from a hard
day at work. And we're all influenced by what we
see on TV and movies and yeah, things like that,
and that's the reason we drank. I'm pretty so sure
of it. So a lot of comedians have got a
lot of debt to pay.

Speaker 4 (01:09:06):
Yeah, but did we also drink because that immediately makes
you feel good? Like tenber is, you feel bad. But
the one thing about alcohol that's incredible has no matter
how stressful your day has been or what is going on,
you can you can go to a pub. You can
order a beer and immediately feel the stress.

Speaker 8 (01:09:28):
Alcoholics drink because it makes them feel mormal because it
makes them feel good, and then they become addicted to
it and they feel good because they've been drunk. So yeah,
it does make you feel good. It lowers your inhibitions
and tan cales all sorts of problems. I've never been
a heavy drinker, you know, a couple of drinks a
week maybe, and that's it. And that's only if I'm

(01:09:50):
socially out and about.

Speaker 4 (01:09:51):
Yeah, the interesting thing about New Zealand is we have
quite a binge drinking culture, don't we. We're and I'm
not sure, And it seems seems that the younger people
are moving on from that.

Speaker 8 (01:10:01):
But which which is a good thing? The only thing
I worry about, well, I don't say I worry about it,
but I think about it. All these you know, caffeine
drinks and your these different topic. I know, but you know,
I don't worry about what it's going to do at
the hearts when they're drinking three or four or five
of these things a day and in thirty years time,
what was it ticularly going to be like?

Speaker 4 (01:10:20):
You know, I tell you what. One thing that really
changes your attitudes towards drinking is having teenage sons, because
you suddenly go what you thought was so funny and
the ridiculous risks you took when you're a teenager and
how you behave.

Speaker 8 (01:10:32):
In the forties.

Speaker 4 (01:10:36):
Yeah, but when you see when when you're a parent,
you go, I would hate to have been my parent,
the amount of worry I would have had anxiety if
I was my parent and it's my parents did.

Speaker 8 (01:10:47):
I've forgotten his name, but he did the Happy Birthday,
Sweet sixteen. I've forgotten his name. He's around in the
sixties and seventies. He wrote a song he says, if
you're the father of boys, you worry. If you're the
father of girls, you pray. Neil Sinaka that's him, Yep,
that's the one.

Speaker 4 (01:11:04):
Yeah, Hey, thanks for you call Nick, Yeah, great call.
I'll tell you what. Another cultural change is the amount
of old artists that used to sing songs about sixteen
year olds.

Speaker 3 (01:11:14):
It was a lot of that.

Speaker 4 (01:11:15):
I heard that Bellie Idol song Sweet sixteen the other day. Yeah,
can you I menage an artist coming out with us?
He would have probably been in his thirties at that
point coming out with it. I do anything for my
sweet sixteen?

Speaker 22 (01:11:27):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:11:27):
How did they get away with it?

Speaker 8 (01:11:29):
Oh?

Speaker 3 (01:11:29):
One hundred and eighty ten eighty is that number of calls?

Speaker 5 (01:11:31):
So?

Speaker 3 (01:11:31):
Would New Zealand society be better or worse off if
alcohol didn't exist? Nineteen ninety two is the text number
as well. Take more of your calls very soon. People
enjoyed that, Matt. People really enjoyed that on their Friday afternoon.

Speaker 4 (01:11:43):
Okay, well I'm going to make sure that the MIC's
off for the sad break. Okay, yeah, please don't it?
Yeah right, apologies. It's eleven to three.

Speaker 1 (01:11:52):
The issues that affect you and a bit of fun
along the way. Mad Heathen Taylor Adams Afternoons news talk,
Sa'd be.

Speaker 4 (01:12:00):
Pretty good afternoon, youre it is nine to three out
of sixth says I do wonder if the young are
just better informed about drinking now. My teenagers they drink
but they do really, if ever, over indulge as parents.
We just put out the risks, didn't glamorize or minimize
what it does have We evolved. Aha, Yes, Sweetlets sixteen

(01:12:20):
was awful song. Yes that's right.

Speaker 3 (01:12:22):
Yeah, you just heard some of the lyrics full noise. Yeah.
Oh one hundred and eighty ten eighty is that number
to call?

Speaker 4 (01:12:29):
From a mental health support work perspective. I feel it's
about education and harm reduction. Alcohol is just one of
the tsunami of harmful consumables. On the offer take sugar
and high fat.

Speaker 5 (01:12:38):
Wow.

Speaker 4 (01:12:39):
Yeah, I mean there's so many different ways you can
harm yourself. Yeah. But the question we were asking on
the back of Jason Alexander floating their question the famous actor,
would the world be a better place without our alcohol
or not?

Speaker 3 (01:12:52):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (01:12:53):
Hard to say?

Speaker 3 (01:12:53):
What do you say?

Speaker 4 (01:12:54):
Phil?

Speaker 3 (01:12:55):
How are you this afternoon?

Speaker 5 (01:12:56):
Mate?

Speaker 23 (01:12:58):
Not too thanks to hell?

Speaker 12 (01:12:59):
Are you?

Speaker 5 (01:13:00):
Max?

Speaker 4 (01:13:00):
Yeah?

Speaker 5 (01:13:00):
Good?

Speaker 3 (01:13:00):
Now we've got to be quick, mate.

Speaker 4 (01:13:01):
So what's your thoughts?

Speaker 14 (01:13:03):
Yeah?

Speaker 23 (01:13:03):
Okay, purely on an I'm heavy drinker sank twelve last
night watching TV. Purely on an intellectual basis for the debate,
I would say the world would be would be better
off without alcohol just on a purely intellectual angle from
looking at it, but on a personal level, and even

(01:13:27):
though it's not because I'm a heavy drinker, but I'm
just thinking personally, I would think, no, the world wouldn't
be a better off place because one, I like the
taste of beer, which is a bit problematic for heavy drinker,
and I enjoy also if you just if you don't
have too many and you get the buzz, like you know,
just a little bit of a buzz, a little happy

(01:13:47):
without going too far. And also there's that for some
people it helps break down the anxiety when they go
out in social situations and that and freeze them up
and that and makes them get more confident, you know,
if they don't get too much, you know, and over
and doll. So for those reasons, and I think it
would just be missing something too in terms of having
an option of something taken away and gone as well.

Speaker 4 (01:14:10):
Yeah, thank you for your call, Phil. A couple of
more texts coming through. It's kind of like everything, isn't it.
So you can describe the absolute worst outcomes for alcohol,
you know, violence, drunk driving, you know, the carcinogenic elements,
everything you can describe that but also that's not the

(01:14:31):
case for everyone. Yes, and so when when you look,
you've got to look at the whole spectrum of it.
But not we sort of have a tendency in this
and nowadays to just describe the most horrific things that
happened from a certain whatever.

Speaker 3 (01:14:44):
It is, that's right, yeah, and then.

Speaker 4 (01:14:45):
Just sort of run the conversation like that is all
of the experience of that thing and the and the
and there. And yet there's like two wines with dinner.
Is very different from getting drunk, passing out and driving
a car through the front of a school.

Speaker 3 (01:15:01):
It's very very different. Yeah, yeah, a couple of texts
coming through Get a guys. What I find interesting is
that the youth these days no shame or inhibitions. Niece,
nephew and their friends confirmed this for me, even knowing
everything is recorded and uploaded to social media and less
of them are drinking. Drinking is great fun. Put the
phones down and get into it. That's from Bevern.

Speaker 4 (01:15:21):
Humans should be able to drink from around the age
of sixteen to eighteen, but by the time you get
to thirty, you should be old enough to realize it's
no longer required. You probably found someone to hang out
with by then. That's an interesting idea. So you've got
an age limit because they say that the effects of alcohol,
you know, you can recover, you know that the effects
you're doing to your organs for a while.

Speaker 5 (01:15:41):
Yep.

Speaker 4 (01:15:42):
But I was that famous Cuban podcast on alcohol and
he talks about heavy drinking in your fifties. Not a
good idea.

Speaker 3 (01:15:51):
Yeah, hard to bounce back from that, Yeah, hard.

Speaker 4 (01:15:53):
To bounce back, you know, you in your twenties if
you if you know, there's obviously all those risks around
what you might do or you know, the trouble you
might get in. But there's a good chance that your
body will bounce back, you know, and your organs will
regenerate themselves or whatever. But yeah, getting binge drinking in
your fifties not as good an idea.

Speaker 3 (01:16:13):
No, no, exactly. And just the final teas are quite
like this one right at the top here it is
no good story starts with we we're having a glass
of water and a salad. That's from Paul.

Speaker 4 (01:16:24):
It's not bad. No, I haven't never heard a good
story that started with that.

Speaker 3 (01:16:28):
Yeah, good text things for there, Paul.

Speaker 4 (01:16:30):
No swear words. Next hour Okay, Tyler, is that the promise.

Speaker 3 (01:16:32):
That's the Matteath and Tyler Adams promise, no sill sweat words.
Next hour we'll see.

Speaker 4 (01:16:36):
How we go with it. We'll keep it cleaning, Yeah,
we'll keep it clean.

Speaker 3 (01:16:38):
Right coming up after three o'clock, we won't have a
chat about saunas. We were discussing saunas before the show
today and that is something that matt Heath is actually
looking at for your property while you do some rhinos.
So are they all they cracked up to be? And
if you go sauna, what do you need you go for?

Speaker 5 (01:16:52):
Red?

Speaker 3 (01:16:52):
Do you go full finished style? Tell us your stories
O eight hundred and eighty ten eighties the number of
cool new sport and weather fast approaching.

Speaker 1 (01:17:35):
Your new home. For Instateful and Entertaining Talk, It's Mattie
and Taylor Adams afternoons on News Talk.

Speaker 3 (01:17:43):
Sebby good ay to you, welcome back into the show.
Seven pass three. Just a reminder towards the end of
this hour we're going to catch up with Barry Soper
and discusses fantastic new book. One last question, Prime Minister,
and in about twenty five minutes, New Zealander of the week.
Very much looking forward to that, But in the meantime,

(01:18:03):
we want to have a chat about sauna's no doubt
about it. The increase in people buying saunas has been
met oric. There's been a lot of science behind the
idea of having your own sauna and new technology coming
to the fore as well. But we're having a discussion
about it. But while we were putting the show together
and it was something you were looking at, Matt while
you're doing a bit of Reno's on the old Home.

Speaker 4 (01:18:23):
Yeah, I've been reading a lot about saunas and the
health benefits of it. It looks not just physical health benefits,
but or for mental health benefits. You know, heating yourself up.
You can do that by going for a run, working out,
or just heating yourself up in a sauna. It's very
good for you. Yeah, you can also call yourself down
in a cold shower and get the same sort of
mental health benefits. But us thinking about saunas, but there's

(01:18:44):
a bunch of options. And you know, my algorithm must
know what I'm thinking about, because now my Instagram feed
is just absolutely packed with advertisings for saunas. These sort
of modular outdoor saunas that are around about the ten
thousand dollar mark. But there's also these infrared saunas that
you can have in the corner of your room. Produce

(01:19:05):
a lock showed a picture of him on Christmas this
year in a sauna in the corner of a room.

Speaker 3 (01:19:11):
It's pretty close quarters. Yeah, yep, a couple of guys
squeezed in there.

Speaker 4 (01:19:14):
So there's lots of these options for saunas. So I'd
like to talk to people that have got one at
home what they're like and whether you need to go
for the old school water on the rocks sauna with
the steam or whether these infrared ones do the same job,
because I just feel like the steam and the rocks,

(01:19:38):
it just feels like that's what a sauna is, and
the rest of us just sort of sitting inside a heater.

Speaker 3 (01:19:42):
Yeah, that romantic finish idea that you go out into
that beautiful wooden constract and then as you say, you
check the water on the coals and feel the steam.
And let's be honest, if you're going finish style, there's
no clothes involved there, so all that aspect, I mean,
you can you can definitely go no clothes in an infrared,
but whether you get the same feeling because there's no
obviously no steam in an.

Speaker 4 (01:20:01):
Infrared Do you feel weird just sitting in the corner
of your room in a hot you know, a hot
sauna or do you feel weird? I just want to
know where people would use them. You know, you like
the idea of it, But do you actually you know,
get nude and walk into your yard and sit in
an outdoor sauna? Yeah?

Speaker 9 (01:20:18):
Speak? Would you?

Speaker 4 (01:20:19):
Would you do it? Would you? Would you? Would you
actually sit there?

Speaker 3 (01:20:22):
Not much privacy in our backyard. We'll still give it
a go.

Speaker 4 (01:20:24):
Though, because there's something you know, if you're if you're
at the gym, going to the sauna makes perfect sense.
There's a big old sauna. Might chat to someone in there. Yeah,
what do you say?

Speaker 3 (01:20:33):
I e one hundred and eighty, ten eighty If you
bought a sauna, what kind of sauna did you go for?
And was it worth the money? Nine two ninety two
is the text as well?

Speaker 4 (01:20:41):
Beg for you?

Speaker 3 (01:20:41):
Surely it is ten past three US talks, it'd be
twelve past three, so we're talking about home saunas. If
you bought a home sauna, what did you go for?
And has it been worth it? O eight one hundred
eighty ten eighty is that number?

Speaker 4 (01:20:52):
Call Steve, Welcome the show. What do you reckon about
the infrared versus the old steam system?

Speaker 21 (01:20:59):
Why did you prefer the infrared? To be honest, I
bought one about four years ago and put it in
my garage. And yeah, I've got the music going, different,
different color lighting, whatever you want of mood lighting, and
twenty five minutes lading you feel bloody marveless.

Speaker 4 (01:21:19):
How often you're hitting out there? Stave to the garage
for the sauna about three times a week? Wow? And
as your as yours? Just the one person or two person?
How many people can get in there?

Speaker 21 (01:21:30):
Yeah, this one's just the one person. It was there
was a space thing for me. Yeah, and well basically
in the garage. Then we converted the garage into an office. Yeah,
one s week and it's now in the carports. So
when the neighbors hear the music going, they know not.

Speaker 4 (01:21:45):
Lucky and yeah, and so you don't you're listening to
music because I just worry if I got one, I
might feel just a bit weird sitting in there. Bombs, no, no, no.

Speaker 21 (01:21:57):
No, it's very relaxing and the golf gardening whatever.

Speaker 14 (01:22:02):
Or if you just feel that you just want to
warm the.

Speaker 21 (01:22:04):
Joints up, just come and sitting there for twenty twenty
five minut It's fantastic, love it.

Speaker 4 (01:22:10):
And you have you noticed because there's a lot of
talk about the mental health benefits of it. Do you
feel do you feel better mentally after the sauna?

Speaker 24 (01:22:17):
Well?

Speaker 21 (01:22:17):
You do because it gives you time to think you're
sitting there and you know you. Yeah, it's really really good.

Speaker 14 (01:22:25):
Yeah.

Speaker 21 (01:22:25):
I would recommend them to anybody, and you get them
on a special price.

Speaker 9 (01:22:29):
Great.

Speaker 4 (01:22:29):
Ye, So do you mind do you mind telling us
roughly how much you spent on on the soner of
yours Steve years ago?

Speaker 12 (01:22:35):
Yeah?

Speaker 21 (01:22:36):
Yeah, about two thousand dollars.

Speaker 3 (01:22:38):
Well that's pretty recentably too great reasonable?

Speaker 21 (01:22:41):
Yeah, well you can actually if you go on. If
you go there's a christ Church company, I can't remember
the name, but even now you'll get one for about
two and a half thousand, and they're really really good.

Speaker 3 (01:22:51):
Could you squeeze two people in there if you had two, Steve.

Speaker 21 (01:22:54):
Well, you can actually get there are ones that are
slightly bigger and for two, so they're about between two
and a half and two eight.

Speaker 4 (01:23:03):
Nice, I've got on your thanks for calling Steve, and
you go well in there, Yeah, pup and cook yourself. Gary.

Speaker 25 (01:23:11):
Hey, here you go by is heavy pink shirt.

Speaker 3 (01:23:13):
Day, happy pink shit.

Speaker 4 (01:23:15):
You've got a pink shirt on, geary and tie.

Speaker 25 (01:23:18):
Pink shirt and pink.

Speaker 4 (01:23:20):
You're a bitter person.

Speaker 25 (01:23:21):
And the boss said I looked like a teacher, and
he doesn't like teachers.

Speaker 4 (01:23:28):
That's bullying on on. Yeah.

Speaker 25 (01:23:36):
Anyway, my gym has infra red and my mate has
a proper old fashion you know, being one of your
four years juices on and off, she goes, I prefer
the old fashion one myself. This is a sixth seedter one.
But we're big leads, so only four of us really
sitting it, and we have to wear togs. That's the rules, right,

(01:24:00):
that's how we roll, you know. Outside he's going to
shower to wash off, and then he fills up the
ice pass with some cold beers low car of course,
and he puts the cold piers in there, so we
have an ice plunge.

Speaker 5 (01:24:14):
The goal is to sit in it for two minutes.

Speaker 25 (01:24:16):
Afterwards, well, not many of us make it here. We
sort of rocking in out of there about three times ago.
He is a tendency because he likes and he's used
to it. He puts their bloody water on then and
it gets up to seventy degrees and that she gets
pretty hot.

Speaker 4 (01:24:33):
You got you've got that steam going into your lungs
in what's the conversation like when that we're in the
in the sauna, because you know the cliche is the
mafia guys sitting around talking about their plans.

Speaker 25 (01:24:44):
No, we're actually most of us are tradees.

Speaker 13 (01:24:47):
There's a lawyer and.

Speaker 16 (01:24:49):
Another dude in there.

Speaker 25 (01:24:50):
He actually drags a few neighbors in around the place
and we just talk about life and politics and anything
we like. You know, when we can breathe, because he
turns it up pretty.

Speaker 3 (01:25:02):
Hot, mate, Oh my god, so howlen you seventy degrees elsius.
That is you know you're roasting at that point. Well
you must be twenty seconds in and say I can't
handle this.

Speaker 25 (01:25:13):
No, no, we try to last a couple of couple
of three minutes. But when he turns the water on,
we've got these little white hoodies. That sounds dodged, but
you put it over your face because you can't breathe
as the scene comes through, so you don't see you'd
be like, oh, this is not ideal.

Speaker 4 (01:25:32):
This is what my partner gets angry at me about.
She's like, you, you would always go full heat, like
we're in the spar. I've got to have it at
forty one degrees. There's something about being a dude when
you go forty one. Yeah, there's something about being a dude.
Where is the extreme? You have to go to it.
So if I got a sauna, i'd be I'd be
trying to push it. There's no, you just can't.

Speaker 15 (01:25:51):
I go mental joints.

Speaker 14 (01:25:53):
I need it.

Speaker 25 (01:25:53):
I need a heart, mate, Yeah, the way, get an
house spar until it cools down.

Speaker 8 (01:25:57):
Yeah, he doesn't like the forty one.

Speaker 4 (01:25:59):
Yeah, and then you can't get your partner in the
spar because she she goes, that's too hot. I can't
stay in there. And we did we I know, And
then you're sitting there, have a spa mate.

Speaker 25 (01:26:08):
Yeah, we'll come over and jomp from the start with me.

Speaker 4 (01:26:11):
Oh well, forty one degrees, I'm there. Good on your Gary,
I appreciate it. What a good man.

Speaker 3 (01:26:14):
Oh one hundred and eighty ten eighty is a number
to call if you've got a sauna. Love to hear
from you get a met.

Speaker 24 (01:26:19):
Hey guys, how are you doing? Happy Friday?

Speaker 3 (01:26:21):
Happy Friday?

Speaker 4 (01:26:23):
What do you got?

Speaker 24 (01:26:23):
So here's my story. I've got a clear light sauna
had made in Australia. By the way, I was about
twenty grand brought out a couple of years ago. Always
been a starpool user. And we got a new house.
We moved to Nelson and decided, hey, let's let's get
a great sauna and an outdoor shower. So we've got
the trifector there right. My lady says, hey, let's go

(01:26:45):
to have a triple s. So that's the sort of
the shower in the spa, and that one is one
of those infrared two person outdoor ones.

Speaker 5 (01:26:53):
Yeah, very high tech.

Speaker 24 (01:26:55):
Got music, got mood lighting, got all that kind of stuff.
I think we run at about fifty five degrees and
that's although it doesn't seem as high as what you
guys were just talking about, it's pretty intense. We could
probably do, you know, twenty minutes when you're used to
it at a crack and then get out and have
a cold shower and then spin half an hour and spat.

(01:27:18):
But the story goes on. So we sld that house,
bought another one. And the house we bought has a
barrel sauna.

Speaker 18 (01:27:24):
I've seen that those ones.

Speaker 24 (01:27:25):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, And that one's like a four person
electric you put the water on, like Steve or some
one of the other guys was talking about. And and
we when we sold the last coutse, we actually took
the clear light suner with us. So we've got both.
And I don't know which one I prefer, but I could.

Speaker 4 (01:27:47):
You must be there must be. There's probably no one
else in the whole country this running two sas.

Speaker 24 (01:27:53):
Okay, guys. So we built the studio, so we've got
an Airbnb on the property, and that's got the clear
light saun. We've got the barrel sauna.

Speaker 4 (01:28:01):
Yeah, And so what do you prefer? What's better? Is
it better to have the steam sauna or the the
you know, the light sauna.

Speaker 24 (01:28:08):
I think I like the light sauna better. You know,
when you put the water on, like last pooler was saying,
you know, it just gets really intense for thirty seconds
or so, and it's pretty crazy.

Speaker 5 (01:28:19):
And then and that one's running at about eighty degrees.

Speaker 24 (01:28:23):
But the benefit of it is that it's it's larger,
so you can put your feet up and you can
kind of lay back a little bit. Yeah, so I
think I think the clear light sauna that's the LED
and all the infra red it's probably my preference, but
they are in this case, would be twice the price.

Speaker 3 (01:28:41):
So with the traditional you've got are you still plugging
that up? So it's not actual coals? Is that it's
like electric coals that you pour water on.

Speaker 24 (01:28:48):
That's exactly right, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then we've
got a plunge pole so we kind of which is
melted into the house that we bought. So we do
that sauna, go to the plunge pool, see if we
can do two minutes in July. You can't, it's pretty hard.
And then you're in the Sparta relax.

Speaker 4 (01:29:05):
You see what a what a good setup you got there?
Three three three A three system process. You sound like
the three but yeah, because the thing is you go
into the backyard and you get to sawn and you
get all sweaty. You can't go on about, you can't
go on with the rest of your day until you
have you know, you get some water on you to
clean the sweat off, right.

Speaker 24 (01:29:26):
That's why we did it outdoor shower, right, were trouble
of doing that so that because you don't want to
get all sweaty and then jump into the spar pool.
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, so that's why we do it.
Do it that way or you or we use the
plunge pool, which is another variation.

Speaker 4 (01:29:40):
Is that a heated outdoor shower is the shower?

Speaker 24 (01:29:42):
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. Well you sound like when
when we do it before dinner, it's kind of an
afterwork sort of for us. That's our daily not most days.

Speaker 5 (01:29:54):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:29:54):
Yeah, you sound very relaxed, Matt in general life and
I you know, I'm putting it down to your big
sauner operation there, so high praise.

Speaker 24 (01:30:03):
It's a contributing factor, I'm sure.

Speaker 5 (01:30:05):
Yeah.

Speaker 24 (01:30:05):
Good on talking to you guys.

Speaker 4 (01:30:07):
Yeah, like, have a great weekend.

Speaker 3 (01:30:08):
Yeah, thanks for giving us a call. So keen to
hear from you. If you've got a sauna in your home,
have you gone infrared? Have you gone traditional? And has
it been worth it? Oh, eight hundred eighty ten eighty
So the number to call it's twenty two past.

Speaker 4 (01:30:18):
Three, Matt. Matt's that's selling me on it.

Speaker 3 (01:30:21):
This sounds pretty good, and the plunge poll as well. Mate, Yeah, yeah,
sounds beautiful, all right.

Speaker 1 (01:30:25):
Begging Matt Heath and Tyler Adams afternoons, call oh, eight
hundred and eighty ten eighty on Youth Talk ZB.

Speaker 3 (01:30:35):
Twenty four past three. We're talking about saunas. If you
have brought a sauna, what did you go for? Was
it infrared? Traditional? And has it been worth it? Eight
hundred eighty ten eighty is that number to call? Get
a tony?

Speaker 14 (01:30:45):
Oh good? Eight yeah? Just so what I tell you
my story. I'm an old fellow many years ago, about
forty five years ago I lived I still live in
the Finals, but we would often have barbecue's by the
swimming hole lovely. And then one day somebody decided we
should build a sauna. So we've got some spades, we

(01:31:06):
dug a little pit in the ground, some tea tree
and some black plastic. The whole thing cost us think
about twenty bucks. We heated rocks on the fire, put
them in an old milk crate and that was our
heating source. And you know, no clothes of course back
in those days. And we used that plastic sort that
cost twenty bucks. For about six.

Speaker 8 (01:31:25):
Years, the work all right, it worked.

Speaker 14 (01:31:28):
It worked, absolutely amazing.

Speaker 3 (01:31:30):
How many people are just squeezing there?

Speaker 14 (01:31:32):
Well we could get eight in there.

Speaker 3 (01:31:34):
Eight eight for twenty bucks. It's a good deal, Tony.
Did you have some seats in there?

Speaker 5 (01:31:38):
Ye?

Speaker 3 (01:31:39):
Sorry, you have some seats in there? Or is it
standing only?

Speaker 13 (01:31:42):
Well?

Speaker 14 (01:31:43):
No, no, no, it was it was seats. We dug
it out, you know, we dug a pit, so we
sat on the ground. Your feet were down in the
pit and the basket of rock within the middle. We
really only stopped it when the kids started getting to
teenagers and the nudity was embarrassing the kids, so we
stopped it.

Speaker 3 (01:32:03):
Well, got on your Tony, your own sauna by the
river for the barbies at twenty bucks apart, that's pretty
good going. Appreciate your phone called, thank you very much.
A couple of texts to wrap.

Speaker 4 (01:32:12):
This up, Texas says, sounds like that guy whose wife
suggests the triple S has a good chance of converting
it to the quadruple S afterwards, if you know what
I mean.

Speaker 3 (01:32:22):
I don't know what you mean.

Speaker 4 (01:32:23):
I was thinking the same yep, but I was too
mature to say it.

Speaker 3 (01:32:27):
Well, thank you, tex Stuff for saying what we're all thinking, Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:32:30):
So what's to stop me? You're talking about their homemade situation?
So what's to stop me too? Thoughts too? Thoughts? Firstly,
what's to stop me just getting a little pup tent
and putting a peter in it, just and just getting
it getting it really hot in there?

Speaker 5 (01:32:46):
All right?

Speaker 4 (01:32:46):
Yep? And the second one is why hasn't this been invented?
So you've got a shower, right, so why can't the
shower If the shower is big enough, you've got like
a bench in there, seat in there, then you can
just convert it into a sauna and infra red. Yeah.
So so you just flick a switch and the shower

(01:33:08):
is now a sauna, and then you flick it back
and it's a shower.

Speaker 3 (01:33:13):
It's a good idea, man, wouldn't that be the perfect situation?
The shorner?

Speaker 4 (01:33:16):
The shorner? Why aren't we making a shortener?

Speaker 3 (01:33:19):
Well, you've set it out now, we better get onto
this pretty quick because you're just get away a minute.

Speaker 4 (01:33:23):
Shawn is better than a sour.

Speaker 3 (01:33:25):
You don't want to sour? Yeah, it's a good point.

Speaker 4 (01:33:27):
That does that exist?

Speaker 3 (01:33:28):
Look into it if you've got one of those.

Speaker 4 (01:33:30):
Especially if your bathroom had a good view, and so
why wouldn't you just be sitting in the shower on
a bench at seventy degrees And then it deals with
the situation where you're then sweaty. Then you flick it
onto shower mode, boom, clean yourself, get on with your day,
plunge ball, you put the shower on cold. So this
is a winner, mate, It's the full health shop.

Speaker 3 (01:33:53):
If you're a shower engineer, get in touch. You're going
to make this happen.

Speaker 4 (01:33:56):
Yeah, why are we doing this? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:33:57):
Right, great discussion, Thank you very much. Oh and quickly
there's a tips there. Cost of running them. Just had
a look. It's about a dollar twenty to three bucks
per sision. That's pretty much pretty reasonable, yeah, for mental health.

Speaker 4 (01:34:08):
And is that for the infrared one or for the
firing up the hot rocks?

Speaker 3 (01:34:12):
That's on average for across all of them. The infrared
is a lot cheaper. So the infrareds thirty cents to
a buck.

Speaker 4 (01:34:19):
After the ladsine still saunas for a living we probably
do seventy to thirty traditional versus infrared, right, so people
are still on the traditional. The main brands we do
in New Zealand at Alpine Clear lighte Sauna. People look
us up at Kitset Assembly Services.

Speaker 3 (01:34:32):
Cheers Johnny good, Johnny that Johnny, all right, great discussion.

Speaker 4 (01:34:35):
Thank you. Put one on my shower then we might
be in business.

Speaker 3 (01:34:38):
Yeah, looking forward to hearing about that mate.

Speaker 7 (01:34:40):
All right.

Speaker 3 (01:34:40):
It is twenty eight past three, coming up New Zealander
of the week.

Speaker 11 (01:34:46):
You've talk said headlines with your Ride, New Zealand's number
one taxi app. Download your ride today. Legislation banning under
sixteens from social media is on hold as the government
looks at the issue in a broader scope. Catherine Weed's
Members Bill is being deprioritized, but she says a government
bill is still the aim. This year, three people are injured,

(01:35:10):
one critically, after a single vehicle crash on State Highway
one in Canterbury near Rakaya. The roads expected to be
closed for some time. Education leaders, including the Principals Federation,
are backing the Whiteitungi Tribunal's call to hold proposed changes
to treaty obligations in education law and co design any

(01:35:31):
future changes in partnership with Mary. Just under fifteen hundred
students have benefited from the government soon to be scrapped
final Yffe's free tertiary education scheme. Labour's Michael Wood is
not seeking a position on the party list, but is
confirmed he'll run in the Mount Roskill electorate, saying he
wants to be a strong voice for the community. Warehouse

(01:35:54):
group sales slip as freight costs bite and shoppers cut trips.
You can see more at enzidherld dot co dot nz.
Back to Matteth and Tyler Adams.

Speaker 1 (01:36:05):
The Matteeth and Tyler Adams Afternoons New Zealander of the Week.

Speaker 4 (01:36:11):
Good news these dogs ep It is the Matt Heath
and Tyler Adams Afternoons New Zealander of the Week. As always,
three great New Zealanders shall be equally honored. And remember
the first rule of New Zealander of the Week is
that there are no rules. Any person, group, animal, thing
or snack can be honored. They cannot, and they will not.

Speaker 26 (01:36:31):
Stop us from celebrating and honoring all things Kiwi.

Speaker 4 (01:36:35):
All right, let's get the pond with its walking is
by its very nature of pedestrians. But in New Zealand,
unlike shitter countries, we have walks that are so good
they are known as the great walks, and these great

(01:36:55):
walks are so awesome you have to wait online like
an absolute loser, just to pay to walk them. This
staggered dock booking system always starts in May, and the
spectacular Milford sold out this week in minutes. Ruth Burn Keppler, Abel,
Tazzy Heat.

Speaker 26 (01:37:09):
The Paparrah, hump Ridge Tongue or Kerry Mowana and the
other great Wharfs for being beautiful, popular lawn and absolutely
not boring at all, You are a New Zealander of
the Week. Some bands fart out a couple of generic

(01:37:31):
tunes and then disappear in a puff of irrelevance. These
Kiwis have dozens of groundbreaking, original, life changing bangers. Six
decades in, they're selling out stadiums across New Zealand and Australia.

Speaker 3 (01:37:42):
To rave reviews. Mitchell Hageman from The New Zealand Hero.

Speaker 4 (01:37:45):
Wrote, this is an art rock reckoning for the ages.
Mitchell's teenage brother described them as electric. The Sydney Morning
Hero gushed all over these Kiwi rockers, and the guy
sitting next to me at Spuckerina on Sunday yells this
is so good a mate, and then spiled his bear.
Six months in a leaky boat, one step ahead, I
got you. History never repeats, poor boy, I see red,

(01:38:05):
I hope I never message to my girl, dirty creature.
So many distinctive yet patchy hits, split ends for kicking
art rock, but to huge crowd fifty four years after
your birth. You can add New Zealander of the Week
to an already rammed trophy cabinet.

Speaker 17 (01:38:24):
He has a very distinctive voice. He's sharp, he's witty.
He has a deep understanding of New Zealand politics, the
likes of which has never been seen before and never
will be again.

Speaker 4 (01:38:36):
He's been the real deal of the press gallery since
nineteen eighty Muldoone, Longie, Palmer, Boulger, the Ship, Clark, Key Luxon.
He's covered them all better than anyone else. And now
he's written the most entertaining book on New Zealand politics
you'll ever read.

Speaker 3 (01:38:50):
And it's trucking out the door.

Speaker 4 (01:38:52):
I bought five copies. And it's not only Prime Minister chat.
There's a lot of partying in there too. At one
point near the end of the book, Barry party so
hard his face explodes. Barry Soper, you're a genius and
the top. Look and you are a man hates an
Tanner Adams. You zealing all the way.

Speaker 9 (01:39:13):
Take you away?

Speaker 22 (01:39:33):
Stopping?

Speaker 4 (01:39:36):
Shouldn't stop?

Speaker 22 (01:39:40):
Said, that's fucking that's a stop. That's my god, shut up,
that's s.

Speaker 4 (01:40:10):
Matt and Taylor.

Speaker 3 (01:40:12):
What a great New Zealander of the Week segment again,
And I'll tell you what. We are lucky enough to
have none other than New Zealand of the Week. Barry
Soper is going to make the long journey from about
twenty meters away to come and have.

Speaker 4 (01:40:24):
A chat with us very soon to receive his award. Hey, yeah,
you know, I'm not sure how your Friday is going,
but I've just been showing some footage of a Toyota
aqua that has plowed into the side of a six
hundred thousand dollars Ferrari a new market. Oh so, I'm
not sure whose fault it was. You'd be hoping if

(01:40:44):
you're in the aqua that that was the Ferrari's fault.

Speaker 3 (01:40:47):
Can Yeah, surely your Friday's going better than that.

Speaker 4 (01:40:49):
But it's a pretty amusing image. It certainly is lack
which is ploweded to the side of this incredibly flash Ferrari.

Speaker 3 (01:40:57):
All right there, okay, there, poor bugger, all right, coming
up next, Barry Soper in studio. It is twenty three
to four.

Speaker 1 (01:41:05):
Mattie Taylor Adams taking your call on eight Nighty. It's
matt Heathen Tyler Adams Afternoons News Talks.

Speaker 3 (01:41:14):
It's twenty to four. Barry Soaper has been close to
five decades questioning New Zealand and New Zealand's Prime ministers,
from the Imposing Large and the life characters of Rob
Muldoon and David Longie to the golden age of Helen
Clark and John Key. One last question, Prime Minister. His
book is the story of a working life measured by
twelve prime ministers, packed with entertaining yarns from the hallways,

(01:41:34):
back rooms and hotel bars where New Zealand's chosen leaders,
for better or worse, created their lasting legacies. And Barry
Soaper is with us right now. BARRYE good afternoon.

Speaker 27 (01:41:44):
Good afternoon.

Speaker 4 (01:41:44):
L's first off, before we get stuck into it, got
to say love the book, mate, Oh thank you. It's
such a good read's it's a jaunt through stuff that
we kind of know. But you're you're you've got had
a completely unique viewpoint of it fish your memory. It
certainly does, with a lot of little tipfits thetted in
that you never knew about. So in your book you go,

(01:42:07):
there's a party, your book and I'll read from it.
Journalists need to remember when you deal with politicians, even
though you might like them a lot, as I do Peters,
you must also report on them, and if it's a
critical report, you've got to be prepared to do it
and to potentially receive the backlash. So you know, what's
the story that you ran that you really didn't want
to but knew you had to.

Speaker 27 (01:42:29):
Well, one that I was begged not to run was
the begging was done by Trevor Mallard, the Speaker of
the House, when he claimed that there was a rapist
in the building. And you can imagine that sense shivers
throughout Parliament because it's by guy hadn't been tracked down
and blah blah blah. And I thought, what a load
of rubbish that is. You know, it's just a comment

(01:42:50):
off the cuff that was packed up. So I made
an inquiry and it took me about ten minutes to
realize what he was referring to in the person that
he was referring to. And so, to cut a long
story short, I went out to this person's home because
they'd been sent home after this allegation was made.

Speaker 4 (01:43:10):
And talked to him.

Speaker 27 (01:43:11):
And this man was an absolute quivering wreck. And you know,
if he was a rapist, of course I wouldn't have
had any countenance even talking to the man. But I
know him, I knew him, and thought, this is just rubbish.
This is a figment of Trevor Millard's imagination. When I
was trying to find out who it was that five

(01:43:32):
or ten minutes it took me. Trevor Millard had obviously
got a call from somebody that I had telephoned in
the Parliament buildings and summoned me to his office. And
I had written a relatively piss take column about him
a couple of days before, and when I walked into
the office, I said, oh, Trevor, so is this the

(01:43:53):
teacher telling off the schoolboy?

Speaker 4 (01:43:54):
Is it?

Speaker 27 (01:43:55):
He's a nice more serious than that. I okay, what
is it now? Don't forget this is a person who
was quite a good friend of mine. I'd spoken at
his wedding. He had married one of my longest and
dearest friends who now I was a fairly distant front
Jane Clinton. And so he said to me, I don't
you to run that story. I know you've been inquiring

(01:44:16):
about this. I don't you to run the story. And
I said, well, he said, because what you'll do is
you'll open all wounds. I said, no, Trevor, I'll open
a fresh wound with you, because you know it's wrong.
So and I said, when I write the story. It
was in the Herald and on z B. So when
I write the story, I'll give you. Do you the
courtesy of it, letting you have a look at it?

(01:44:36):
Wasn't interested. And I went to a defamation lawyer and
looked at it, and he said, God sake, this is
a great story. It's outrageous, and ran the story. And
of course you'll remember the outcome of that was Trevor Millard.
He complained about it time and time again, went through litigation,
and I think he ended up costing the taxpayer about

(01:44:57):
one hundred and fifty grand for making this silly statement.
And Bob Jones, the corollary to the whole story was
Bob Jones were out at his place one night and
Bob came over to me and he said, oh, Berry,
I think you should maybe try and patch up your
relationship with Trevor and I said, yeah, okay, Bob. He said,
you know, Trevor's pretty upset about it, and I said,

(01:45:17):
all right. So I called Trevor over and I said, Trevor, look,
I'm sorry the way this has turned out. I'm sorry
our friendship's been damaged, but it's bound to have been
damaged because of what was said. I said, you live
with a journalist, so you'll know that you know, we
take no prisoners. We are published without fear nor favor.
And there were two words that Trevor used to me.

(01:45:38):
One of them was off and that was at the
end of the conversation.

Speaker 4 (01:45:43):
Well, that speaks that you know that that story speaks
to the fact that these people are humans. And there's
a part in the book where you talk about you're
with Helen Clark and she you've seen her cry because
she's an Auntie, the beloved Auntie's past, and you say
to her, Lork Helen, Prime Minister is an important job,
but what you need to think about is your family,
because they're much more important than any one thing that

(01:46:03):
you do in public. Life. So that must be a
balance because you're from a era where you were all
in this almost for want a better word than a bubble,
but you're all in this together in a way. So
these people, you're porting on them, but they're they're humans,
of course.

Speaker 27 (01:46:20):
And that's what I tried to get across in the
book is that prime ministers are human beings. They're like
you and I, and they happen to be in the
right place at the right time. And don't forget, only
twenty or thirty people are responsible for getting them to
the top of the party and then they become prime ministers,
so you know, then they become all powerful. But it's

(01:46:40):
a hell of a job. They live in a goldfish bowl.
They've got fishermen like me pausing over the bowl all
the time. Really throw some baiting, you get it taken
every now and then, and you know, Bob's your uncle.

Speaker 3 (01:46:53):
Yeah, just on that point, Barry, I mean, through reading
and your interactions with a prime minister, I learnt a
lot of new sides about these people. You know, people
I thought I knew fairly well. But with that in mind,
which prime minister do you think was most misunderstood by
the public.

Speaker 27 (01:47:07):
Oh yeah, I don't know. I think they're all pretty
well understood. I've tried to think of one that was misunderstood.
I mean, I think you know, the person, the politician
that I had or the prime minister that I had
the most criticism for was just In Durn and a

(01:47:28):
lot of people have taken me to task for that, saying,
you know, you were too hard on her. And even
my beloved daughters who live in Australia they said, Dad,
we thought you were too hard on Justin Durn. And
one of my daughters who lives in Wellington said the
same thing. And I said, well, look, you're entitled to
view and that's good, and we live in a democracy.
We've all got different views on various things. I said,

(01:47:49):
But the only advantage that I had over you was
that I worked daily with this woman, traveled with her,
knew her probably better than most and certainly better than
a lot of the critics that have come out and
abused me for taking a negative stance on just In
d Durn. So I say to those critics is read

(01:48:10):
it be objective and allow me to express my opinion,
which is somebody that was pretty close to her in
terms of her being in power and me being a journal.

Speaker 4 (01:48:21):
Now speaking of opinions, is an opinion in your book
that made me quite angry. I was quite disgusted at it,
and I'll read it, okay, well, please don't.

Speaker 3 (01:48:30):
I was furious about the good stuff.

Speaker 14 (01:48:31):
Eric.

Speaker 4 (01:48:32):
I had a talk back radio show in Wellington in
the nineteen nineties before we had the internet, and you
only had newspapers to look at to keep the conversation
going and to keep yourself informed. It made talk back
a much bigger challenge for us than what it is today.
To that, but it was true.

Speaker 27 (01:48:50):
I mean, you got into the studio. I was doing
a nine to noon show and you got into the
studio and you had to think about what you were
going to talk about, and it was only newspapers and
the old fax machine and what have you, So you
didn't have the feedback came from the callers, which is
the great thing. But you guys, here you are sitting

(01:49:11):
with your computers in front of you. You've got AI
or what was that statistic that I wanted flash it up?
You sound very intelligent, but when you're doing it without
the Internet and without any support basis like that, it
is a hard job.

Speaker 4 (01:49:24):
Are you saying you didn't have five computer screens in
front of you, like.

Speaker 3 (01:49:28):
Googles were all handy and not at all.

Speaker 4 (01:49:31):
Well, I love the stories in your book about you
know how difficult it was just to get a story
back in. You know, the event would happen, you'd have
to rush back your hotel, You'd have to work out
a way just to deliver the information back. I mean,
all of that has changed so much across your career.

Speaker 27 (01:49:46):
Well, that's that's the change for the better in my
view that you know, Like I talked about a long
trip that I did with David Longi through the Black
African Frontline States and then he decided to do a
sojourn up to New Delhi to see his mate Rubbed
you Gandhy And that was a very long trip. But
we would be out on the planes of Africa and

(01:50:06):
it was only at the end of the day that
you could file your stories. And to file those stories,
it wasn't sitting in front of a computer. It was
writing on a Olivetti. Mine was typewriter, writing out some scripts,
do the odd voice report back. But then you had
to take a phone apart and have Crocodile clips, and
if you were booked into a room with a pert phone,

(01:50:28):
you had to change the room because you couldn't screw
the mouthpiece off. And that's how difficult it was. And
the great thing about technology I remember and being overwhelmed by,
was standing on the White House West Lawn and talking
on a brick phone back to New Zealand, being interviewed
by somebody at z B, thinking this is incredible. I'm

(01:50:48):
actually speaking no wise, nothing, and it goes into the
ether and I'm actually talking to New Zealand. Well, now
nobody even thinks about that.

Speaker 9 (01:50:57):
That's what you do.

Speaker 4 (01:50:58):
If I ever have an excuse to play the following audio,
I do, and so I'm going to play.

Speaker 23 (01:51:02):
It doesn't give my parish much time to run up
to an election.

Speaker 4 (01:51:10):
Great good. So you are responsible for some of the
most important political sayings in New Zealand's political psyche. Tell
us about how you came up with Roger nomics and
you are instrumental in the Snap's election.

Speaker 27 (01:51:23):
Yes, well, Roger Nomics was basically because I used to
write these pstate columns that were destroyed. There were over
three thousand of them, and I was planning to get
a researcher to go and dig out the best bits,
and I was going to write a book on that,
but one over zealous reporter I had working for me
decided that this is old stuff, and when I was

(01:51:43):
giving a speech in Sydney, he destroyed the whole lot
of them.

Speaker 4 (01:51:46):
So I wasn't very happy about that.

Speaker 27 (01:51:47):
But yeah, the you know, the thing is now there
were two parts to your question.

Speaker 4 (01:51:54):
Well, my question was basically Roger and Snap's election, which
is that one.

Speaker 27 (01:52:00):
And one of these columns I was started off saying
that Roger Douglas was a lot of people were saying
that he was rogering the economy, so it was a
bit of a sexual reference in a way. And then
I thought about it and wrote it, and then it
became Roger nomics and then a crush of Collins was my.

Speaker 4 (01:52:21):
And that was a pretty obvious one. And the Snap's
election was the name given to a group of Yeah, yeah, fantastic.

Speaker 27 (01:52:28):
There was a great cartoon the next morning after Muldoon
called the Snap's Election of him waking up next to
his wife who used to call Tam his name was there,
and there was a they were lying in bed and
there were party balloons and whistles and stuff, and Muldoon
was looking very much worse for the wear, and he
turned to Tam and he said, did I say something

(01:52:50):
about a snap last night?

Speaker 4 (01:52:53):
He probably felt like brilliant. Well, Barry SOPI you're an
absolute legend. I've said it to you before. I never
turned off the radio when you were on. You're deep
understanding the system and your ability to get to the
crux of the story is unmatched. You're a great New
Zealander and a great blow on a personal level. And
you've written an excellent book. So congratulations on everything and
so much. Thanks so much for coming in to talk

(01:53:14):
to us. Thank you very much.

Speaker 9 (01:53:16):
That's much appreciated.

Speaker 3 (01:53:16):
Yeah, brilliant book. It's called One Last Question, Prime Minister.
It's and bookstores now. It's on it's third print already,
so you better get in quick if you want to copy.
But it is in all good bookstores right now, right
beg very shortly. It is eight to four the.

Speaker 2 (01:53:31):
Big stories, the big issues, the big trends and everything
in between.

Speaker 1 (01:53:36):
Matt Heath and Tyler Adams Afternoons US Talks ed B.

Speaker 3 (01:53:40):
News Talks ed B. It is five minutes to four
just a reminder you can find Barry's book. It's called
One Last Question, Prime Minister. It's and all good books
stores and it is a brilliant read. Honestly, it is
a fantastic, fantastic greed.

Speaker 4 (01:53:52):
Well that brings us to the end of the show.
Thank you so much for all your calls and texts.

Speaker 3 (01:53:56):
Yes, now fifty seconds every now. We I don't think
we're going to have time for of the Week this week. Unfortunately,
we're not going to get to CPR John No, which
suck because that's exactly who it was going to be.
We had this fan you know, we got the audio there,
but we had this fantastic call from some guy who
was outside of society and he had a fictional legal

(01:54:17):
self and the flesh and blood. But unfortunately not today.
Maybe we'll play that next week.

Speaker 4 (01:54:22):
Yeah, all right, then, as I say, thank you so
much for listening. It's been a fantastic show. We'll be
back again on Monday Live from twelve o'clock. Until then,
give him a taste to keep it from us. I
hang in a minute. We did have time for the
Bloody Thing, Tyler. I think we did well. It was
about forty seconds of John because I couldn't get it

(01:54:43):
down any less because he was such an interesting character.
But I think we've just ran out of time now. Yeah,
unfortunately Lock is saying we've just squeezed a bit too tight. Okay,
here we go, here we go. Well, then the Megan
Pi theme started playing. So I guess that's the end
of the week. I think it is. I'm looking forward
to the weekend.

Speaker 3 (01:55:03):
Yeah, me too, But I just quickly last year Tyler.

Speaker 4 (01:55:06):
Why would I be playing the megn and p I thing?

Speaker 3 (01:55:08):
You know why you're planning the magnum p I theme.
It's enjoyable to hear this again.

Speaker 4 (01:55:12):
Why you playing this? Because, as I said before, Toyota
Aqua has smashed into a Ferrari a new market in
the last hour.

Speaker 3 (01:55:22):
Oh well played, well played.

Speaker 4 (01:55:24):
The most famous Ferrari driver all time has got to
be of course, mean the p I.

Speaker 3 (01:55:30):
What a sexy mustache?

Speaker 4 (01:55:31):
Or yeah? All right, I gape until Monday, give me a
taste key for us seem busy, will let you go
amazzle at the end.

Speaker 1 (01:55:39):
There for more from News Talks at b listen live
on air or online, and keep our shows with you
wherever you go with our podcast on iHeartRadio,

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