Full Show Podcast: 18 August 2026

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
You're listening to a podcast from News Talk, said B.
Follow this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio.
The big Stories, the leak issues, the big trends, and
everything in between. Matt Heath and Tyler Adams Afternoons News Talk.

Speaker 2 (00:27):
Said, be a very very good afternoon to you. Welcome
into Tuesday show. Great to have your company and hope
you're having a great day. But thanks very much for
giving out us. So listen and get Amy.

Speaker 3 (00:36):
He get a Tyler Adams, get everyone our weight one
hundred and eighty ten eighty if you want to give
us a ring.

Speaker 4 (00:41):
We also have the ability to receive texts.

Speaker 3 (00:43):
We go in two nine to.

Speaker 2 (00:45):
Only the best here in eight news Talks here B,
just before we get into today's show, I don't say
something that happened to me yesterday that was incredibly embarrassing.

Speaker 4 (00:53):
I'd love to hear it good. So you know uber
the right cheer situation. I am very familiar.

Speaker 2 (00:58):
So as you know, on Friday we had the big
best so I ended up leaving my vehicle at the
car park.

Speaker 4 (01:02):
Over the week the Big.

Speaker 3 (01:03):
News Talks, He'd be one hundred year party, fantastic party,
fantastic celebration.

Speaker 2 (01:08):
I left my car here for the whole weekend because
I didn't really need it for the rest of the weekend.
And I was a bit dusty on Saturday, so I
had to.

Speaker 3 (01:13):
Get a surprised to get how you were on the front.

Speaker 4 (01:16):
Of Yeah, pushed the boat out, So I had to
get an uber yesterday.

Speaker 2 (01:19):
And as I was walking out of the front gate
and a car pulled up and I wasn't really thinking.
I didn't really see you know, the old number black game.
I don't really do.

Speaker 4 (01:27):
So then I woke up and I opened the back
door and I.

Speaker 2 (01:31):
Sitting in there and I'm like, good morning, and this
poor lady just turns around to.

Speaker 4 (01:35):
Say, ah, what is this the uber for Tyler? She's like, no, no,
this is not the uber for Tyler. Was it a Prius, No, no,
it was just some sort of station wagon. She thought
you were hichecking her. That's exactly what she thought. Even
lucky she was un armed. I was lucky. I mean
the poor I think it's my neighbor, to be honest.

(01:56):
So that's the first time I've actually met that particular neighbor. Yeah,
well that that has happened.

Speaker 3 (02:02):
What has happened to me before at a petrol station
where you go and pay for your guess and then
you come back, and then you climb into the car
and you sit down and you go, doesn't appear to
be in my car? Yeah, And then someone comes out
and you jump out of the car.

Speaker 5 (02:16):
Sorry.

Speaker 3 (02:17):
Sorry, you just drive a very similar car to come on.
I was with some friends in Memphis, doesn't really matter
where it was, but one of our, one of them,
had had a few one of the friends who were there,
as you do, and he climbed into a press and.

Speaker 4 (02:37):
Said, there was three mistakes.

Speaker 3 (02:39):
He said, take me to the Peabody Hotel because he
thought it was an uber and that was one of
his mistakes because that's not how an uber works. Just
climb in the back and take me somewhere.

Speaker 5 (02:50):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (02:50):
Correct.

Speaker 3 (02:51):
His second mistake was it wasn't an uber at all,
just some random It was just someone part just a prius.

Speaker 4 (02:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (02:57):
And this third mistake was he was right in front
of Peabody, so it was literally at the Peabody jumping
into a random car. It wasn't an uber, not using
the Uber app anyway, and he was already home.

Speaker 4 (03:10):
Oh that is glorious, That is great. Yeah, yeah, fantastic.

Speaker 2 (03:14):
Right, I thought i'd just share that And apologies to
my neighbor for jumping in the back of your car.
But right, let's get into this. So we want to
talk about house flippers.

Speaker 3 (03:24):
Hey, just before we get into the house flippers. Before
in the last hour, I was talking about house Flippers
and I flippantly said that the TV show from the
ninety sixties Flipper, had a great theme. Yes, and someone
text her and said, that's absolute rubbish. Not only a
house flippers not good people, but also that is not
a good thing.

Speaker 4 (03:46):
So just before we get into this house flopping chat,
I just want to see if this is a good thing.

Speaker 3 (04:00):
I mean, it's not the greatest theme of all time, greatest,
but it is wholesome.

Speaker 4 (04:04):
The littles Hobo would be the greatest theme of all time.
That's hey, it's right up there. The Magnan p I
theme maybe out there. Yeah, yeah, that's a solid one.
Fair cough. It was a flippant, flippant comment, flippit comment
about flipp of the TV show. It wasn't a fantastic thing.
You thinks it's a good thing. What are you talking about?

Speaker 2 (04:20):
Anyway, we are talking about house flippers, so it has
picked up, as we know, something of a negative reputation
in New Zealand if you gil someone the house flipper.
Critics argue that these particular property investors buy out properties
and make it tougher for first time buyers to get
a foot in the door.

Speaker 4 (04:34):
But investors are now pushing back.

Speaker 2 (04:36):
Not only is it harder for them to make profit
in the current climate, but they're saying they're not actually
taking homes away from first home buyers, they're actually adding
value to properties that might otherwise sit untouched. Have a
listen to investor Emmahnover.

Speaker 6 (04:50):
I think there's really bad reputation for property traders in
New Zealand, and I think what people need to understand
is we're not buying the stock their first home buyers
are buying. We're actually creating it for them. So we're
buying houses at the banks, won't lind on Worth asbestos,
with leaking roofs, with holes, with myth contamin and we're
putting clean, healthy stock back on the market that they

(05:13):
can afford. Most property traders are selling at a lower
price than a homeowner because we want to move our
stock quickly. It's a very different market than what it
was two years ago. And I've changed. I've seen it
change very very quickly, from buying a house spending forty
thousand dollars making forty thousand dollars to now buying a
house spending two hundred thousand dollars to make fifty thousand dollars.

Speaker 2 (05:36):
So that is the argument from one particular house flipper
that the perception of house flippers is unfair. And she
argues that they target run down or unlivable properties and
then do them up so they're actually viable for first
time buys.

Speaker 3 (05:50):
Well, there, this is sort of a definition thing going
on here because we're talking at property flippers, and the
sticks here is there is a common misunderstanding of the
term flipper. Flipping means you buy a property and on
seal it for sediment, for a propit, if you buy
a property and develop it into something better than you
are a developer, says this tea. But she calls herself

(06:10):
a property trader, right, not a flipper. Yes, I guess
flippers kind of a sort of a derogatory term for someone,
isn't it someone that's border house in flicked it really
really quickly and made a whole whole lot of money,
Tyler and Matt. Property investors are not developers. Investors buy
and hold of developers. By to sorry, property investors are
not developers. Investors buy and hold property to increase value

(06:34):
and then sell important distinguished and distinguish. It's important to
distinguish between the two, and it's been a misconception for
a long time. Please don't mix the two. It taints
investors unfeeling Neil, Okay, right, So property investors and developers
are different things. And property traders is probably the term.
Flippers want to be referred to as.

Speaker 2 (06:54):
Yeah, yeah, So what do you say if you are
a property flipper a property trader?

Speaker 7 (06:58):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (06:58):
Eight, one hundred and eighty ten eighty is those genuine?
Are you some of the best people out there? That
you do add value to our property market? That you
are not buying fancy new homes and then get in
a second bedroom or a third bedroom or fourth bedroom.
You're actually buying up dongers and then getting them ready
for market.

Speaker 3 (07:14):
The way she described the situation is, you know, won
way over completely. I mean when my gut reaction was
good on you. You're making a bit of money. But
I've never thought about it as being a public good.
So buying a house the banks won't lend on because
it's in an absolutely horrific state, yep. Putting you know, healthy,
clean stock into the market that people can afford and

(07:38):
cheaper in the end because they sell them very quickly. Yeah,
So spending two hundred thousand dollars to make to fifty
k kind of situations. So is that the reality? Because
that sounds like that sounds like something that needs to
be done. It sounds that sounds like we need to
be turning asbestos to fill run down horrible houses that

(08:00):
banks won't lend on into stuff.

Speaker 4 (08:01):
People can live in, don't we I can't see anything
wrong with that. But what do you say? O?

Speaker 2 (08:04):
Eight one hundred and eighty ten eighty what's your view
on these property traders, the house flippers? And if you
are someone who does deal in property trading? Is that
the reality for you? Is that exactly what you are doing?
And it's been unfair to have this reputation thrust upon you?

Speaker 4 (08:19):
Tell us O.

Speaker 2 (08:19):
One hundred and eighty ten Eightyes, at number nine two
nine tools the text, it's fourteen past one.

Speaker 1 (08:24):
The big stories, the big issues, the big trends and
everything in between. Matt Heath and Taylor Adams afternoons used
talks that'd.

Speaker 2 (08:32):
Be seventeen past one. So we're talking about property traders
or house flippers. They are pushing back at the connotation
they are thieves that are greedy, they're taking homes away
from first time buyers.

Speaker 4 (08:43):
They actually say.

Speaker 2 (08:43):
That they provide a heck of a lot of value
in the housing market.

Speaker 4 (08:47):
They buy unlivable, unused homes.

Speaker 2 (08:50):
And they get them up to code, up to scratch
and get them back on the market, something that first
time buyers don't do anymore.

Speaker 4 (08:56):
So what do you say, we have a.

Speaker 3 (08:57):
Huge amount of one of the highest percentages of houses
being sold to first home buyers than we've had in
a very long time. Right, Yes, this Texas says they
trade on misery other people's misery. They add absolutely nothing.
I don't think you can really say that they add
absolutely nothing. If you've got a house that's just sitting there,
it's un mortgagible and someone that does it for a

(09:20):
living comes in with a bit of capital behind them
and then turns it into new stock that can be sold,
you know, they're not building new things. They're not building
twenty five horrific townhouses. They're fixing up a perfectly like
house that has potential to be able to be a
fantastic place for someone to live. Then if people are

(09:41):
going to put that kind of effort and then they
have to make some money from it or else, why
would they bother? I mean, people aren't just going to
do it out of the cardness their house, no kindness
of their hearts. So it's ridiculous. So they add absolutely nothing.
They add a new house to the market that people
can choose to buy.

Speaker 2 (09:58):
And it's having the skills and expertise, right, I mean, look,
once upon a time, it maybe there was some people
who wanted to get on the property ladder that had
some skill. If the house had something slightly wrong with it,
they had the skill to do it up themselves with
or without their capital. But as this property flipper argues,
they're no longer around. So it's only them who've got
the skills, the knowledge and know the people who can

(10:19):
come in to get.

Speaker 4 (10:19):
Those properties back on the market. So what do you say, Oh,
one hundred and eighty ten eighty.

Speaker 3 (10:24):
The sextus says, I bought a property, fixed it, painted it,
and held for two years to escape bright Syde Tex
and now hoping I can sell today to pay the
mortgage and fix ups and leftovers for an ice cream.
It's a very hard market to sell in, yeah, Craig,
your thoughts.

Speaker 8 (10:41):
Yeah, Look, I think this there's an element of the
green eyed monster here that people take risks when they
buy it something there's no guarantees of an outcome, and
we've seen in their movement of the property market more
recently there's some people that have bought property as sitting
on losses. So it's like any business people take a

(11:04):
risk and they're wanting to take that to make the profit.

Speaker 3 (11:09):
Yeah, and then you're definitely not going to take the
risk if there's a zero chance of making a decent profit.
That's just not how humans work.

Speaker 4 (11:17):
Right, Craig, that's right.

Speaker 8 (11:21):
But they're still taking a risk. They can't guarantee where
the market's going to be heading in one sort of direction.
So you go back a few years everyone felt the
market was going in one direction and so properly flippers
were making money all the time. But I bet there's
a bunch of them out there and hurting at the moment.

Speaker 4 (11:37):
Do you think some sort of.

Speaker 3 (11:40):
I guess if it's more risky, then you do more
due diligence on the house and you have to pray
your trade in a much more efficient fashion. But there
might have been a while there, Craig, where you could
just buy anything, do not that much to it, and
it would go up up in price. And maybe those
people are the ones that are feeling the pinch now
because they lost the sort of core competency of their business.

Speaker 8 (12:05):
I think that's probably fair that in this market the
flippers are probably trying to sort of squeeze the price
down a little bit more to create more They want
to sort of be comfortable that they're going to make
a margin, and most of these people have built up
a capital base to enable them to do it, so

(12:26):
I doubt that it's everything for them. But there's those
people that are probably trying to enter the market and
see if thinking that anyone can flip properties, and they'll
probably get burnt doing it.

Speaker 2 (12:35):
So yeah, nicely, said Craig. Just on there a couple
of friends down in Christos. They started off buying up
as is we're as homes, so these were homes that
were damaged in the earthquake. The insurance paid out on
the home, but they're basically useless at that point. So
they go into these homes and try and get e
gauge on whether it was going to be worth while
doing them up, because you've got to redo the foundations,

(12:56):
that was the big one. Then you've got to sort
out the walls and everything else. One was a builder,
one was just a very good talker.

Speaker 4 (13:02):
But between them they got pretty good at it.

Speaker 2 (13:03):
But in the early stages they had a lot of
properties that they purchased and it's just that for not
much because it wasn't worth that much. But they lost
out in the end that they once they got in
and they realized, heck, we misjudged this. The foundation is
actually way worse than we thought, or the lands need
some geotech that we just can't pump two hundred thousand
dollars in. So that was part of the game that

(13:25):
sometimes they did very well. They got it back to market,
built it up, it became somebody's home, and sometimes they lost.

Speaker 4 (13:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (13:31):
Well, I mean your assessment would have to be pretty good, right, yeah,
because so often when people try and do work on
their houses, you open up the walls and you discover
that it's.

Speaker 4 (13:38):
Not what you thought. Yeah, yeah, excet.

Speaker 3 (13:40):
So in that business, you have to go in and
go you know what is this house? You know, as
this woman's.

Speaker 4 (13:46):
Saying, you know, you go in there.

Speaker 3 (13:48):
It's a sbestus ridden but you'd have to have you
have to look around and go, well, it's got some
decent bones. Yeah, it's got something that we can work with. Hey, guys,
As a builder slash handyman that enters a few houses
each week in Wellington, I get a pretty cool look
at the housing stock. I'd probably consider eighty percent to
be in pretty average condition, says this text. These stagnant

(14:08):
house prices aren't helping anybody to borrow and maintain or
improve their houses. If this continues, a lot of us
will be living in slums in another ten years.

Speaker 4 (14:16):
Okay, what do you say to that? Oh, e one
hundred and eighty ten eighteen.

Speaker 2 (14:19):
If you are a property trader, how do you feel
your reputation is in the wider in the wider society?
And are you with Emma Hanover pushing back on the
idea that you guys are greedy and not good for
the country and feature provide a lot of value tell.

Speaker 4 (14:33):
Us nineteen ninet two c of techs. That is twenty
three past one.

Speaker 1 (14:38):
Fearless, focused informed, it's the mic Hosking Breakfast.

Speaker 4 (14:42):
Worldly inflation is coming under control. Mark Smith as the
ASB senior economist. Food look splashish going far at one
point nine within the band. We can adjust ourselves to that.

Speaker 9 (14:51):
Yeah, that was really great news for shopping. Food price
inflation has been a real ed wouldn't be a cook
consumers in the last few years, but annual food price inflation
at one point ninety sent things like rosary food prices
in general and some meats as.

Speaker 5 (15:04):
Well, quite to go down there as well.

Speaker 9 (15:06):
Look at more broadly things like global commodity prices. There
are signs there that there might be a bit more
of a moderation to come. Bring there.

Speaker 10 (15:13):
The story will be next year.

Speaker 3 (15:15):
Back tomorrow at six am the mic Hosking Breakfast with
a Vida News Talks.

Speaker 4 (15:19):
That'd be twenty six past one.

Speaker 2 (15:22):
So property traders house flippers have a bit of a
dirty reputation in many parts of a New Zealand society.
But they're pushing back and saying they actually created a
lot of value. So what do you say, I one
hundred and eighty ten eighty. If you are a property trader,
pete your view.

Speaker 10 (15:37):
Yeah again there, gentlemen, I reckon good onland because I
look at a house on Sunday. I just said, person
that used to own I passed away now and edit
renting such as a magic condition that when he passed away,
that's about six or seven years ago.

Speaker 7 (15:51):
I went to that.

Speaker 10 (15:52):
They just have a curiosity so they can have a
look at it. And you wouldn't be surprised to how
much has gone back. I had the stucco sort of
outside walls and have got leaks in it.

Speaker 7 (16:02):
And to do that.

Speaker 10 (16:03):
Placed up, I said to the land age, I've only
need one hundred and grand or more to fix it up.
So good on them if and I do that. If
they don't make it one hundred grand or I say
fifty one hundred grand or whatever, someone's got to do it,
they're doing at the young ones don't want to do
that hard. We can take your head off to them.

Speaker 7 (16:18):
They do.

Speaker 10 (16:18):
They send me the marketer.

Speaker 7 (16:21):
They've got a place in the market.

Speaker 3 (16:22):
Yeah, And if you don't create something that someone wants
to buy, then you're in a lot of trouble, aren't you.

Speaker 10 (16:26):
Pete, there's a nice old house till it's quite a
character one. But they must have a little leap in
the roof too, and what they have it and it's
created if a leap in the roof, so they'n't a
new kitchen everything.

Speaker 7 (16:36):
But I was spotless, you know, I was old.

Speaker 10 (16:38):
But the guy looked up. The old gentleman is a
really nice guy. But in that time, it's amazing how
how fast the place can go back. And I can
see one hundred grands. I reckon, I've see the guy's
going to two hundred grand and probably at least so
if we don't, if you don't do your work, like
some of the other previous callers said, you will lose money.
And I'm so they can make fifty grand because there's
not a lot of money because you do the house

(16:59):
probably going to take you two or three or four
months or whatever.

Speaker 6 (17:01):
Do you work it out.

Speaker 10 (17:01):
They do two or three of those in a year.
It's only one hundred agin and hundred twenty grand. It's
not a lot of money.

Speaker 2 (17:05):
Yeah, I suppose the first time buy is Some would
push back on that and say for those property traders,
the house flippers that are just doing the unlivable homes.

Speaker 4 (17:13):
Good on them. But as we know, Pete, it's not
just the unlivable homes.

Speaker 2 (17:17):
I'm pretty sure there's are property traders out there that
would pack up on a house they can see some
improvement value in and outbids the first time buyers.

Speaker 4 (17:28):
Do you think that's that's a problem.

Speaker 10 (17:30):
There, such as a fierce system. But end of the
day is you don't have to buy the place, and
they've done it. They've done a nice good job. There's
going to be a summary. Well, they're going to pay
text her anyway, they've got to pay. You know, they
are paying capital gain on it based on what they
bought on selling it. But they are getting text on it. Actually,
never wrong with it.

Speaker 4 (17:48):
Fair enough to Pete. Thank you very much for your call.

Speaker 3 (17:51):
So the average loss, so the mean loss on these
kind of sales was fifty four thousand dollars, right, so
in thirteen point seven percent of invested property resales made
a loss in the first quarter.

Speaker 4 (18:06):
Of twenty twenty six. That's pretty high.

Speaker 3 (18:08):
You know, you're going into that business giving it a go,
and there's a reasonable chance you're going to make a
loss on it.

Speaker 4 (18:13):
Yeah, and a decent loss on it, So fifty four
grand loss thirteen percent. That happens that at the time
fourty percent of the time. It sounds like a hard
way to run a business.

Speaker 3 (18:24):
Thirty four thousand, seven and sixty one properties in national
invagery in June twenty twenty six, seven point three percent
more than a year earlier, while the national sales count
was five nine five nine hundred and six down two
point nine percent.

Speaker 4 (18:36):
So it's pretty tough out there. That's very risky, right, oh,
one hundred and eighty ten eighty.

Speaker 2 (18:41):
If you are a house flipper property trader, how's business
for you right now? What's the climate like? And how
do you feel about house flipping being used as a slur.
When we come back after the headlines, we will watch
you have a chat to a full time house flipper.

Speaker 4 (18:54):
How about this?

Speaker 3 (18:54):
This sum set up pretty good from Ronnie Hey, boys,
house flipping is nothing more than hard work and risk.
Good luck to those that do it. And if you
don't do it, you'll never make a dollar. Yeah, So
if you can do about Jill, and the more hard
work you put into it and the more skills you have,
therefore you're not paying ahold of other people to do
all the work.

Speaker 11 (19:11):
Yep.

Speaker 3 (19:12):
Then you know potentially the more money you can make.
But that's a lot of hard.

Speaker 2 (19:16):
Work, certainly, is right. It is banging on hop past
one headlines coming up.

Speaker 12 (19:21):
You's talk said b headlines with your Ride, New Zealand's
number one taxi at Download your Ride today. The Prime
Minister seems perplexed by Winston Peters breaking ranks over the
second Auckland Harbor crossing business case. The New Zealand First
Leader called it a waste of money and claims he
requested changes before signing off on it. The Social Development

(19:44):
ministers asked for an explanation is it's revealed thousands of
pension has missed out on the winter energy payment. The
chair of Kiwi Banks Holding Company is floating the idea
of a Kiwi Bank TSB merger. It comes as a
group of Taranaki locals is seeking an interim injunction to
stop a proposed merger of TSB and Heartland Banks. A

(20:07):
man has after a dirt bike crash on a Hawks
Bay bike trail on Sunday. He was found in a
critical condition south of the White Tangi Bridge and Clive
just after nine am. He was taken to hospital and
died several hours later. Four people are injured too seriously
after a two car crash at is Taidi near dun
Eden before eleven am. Two people had to be cut

(20:30):
from the wrecked vehicles. New aged care rooms could get
thirteen point eight percent uplift in government payments. You can
find out more at zidherld dot co dot nz. Back
to Matteith and Tyler Adams.

Speaker 4 (20:43):
Thank you very much, Raillian.

Speaker 2 (20:44):
It is twenty six to two and we're talking about
house flippers. They are pushing back at the connotation they
are greedy and bad for New Zealand and for the
housing market.

Speaker 4 (20:53):
They argue the opposite.

Speaker 2 (20:54):
They say they provide a lot of value because they
most of the time by Unliverpool homes and they've got
the skills to get them back up to party, get
them on the market.

Speaker 4 (21:01):
So what do you say, oh one hundred eighteen eighty.

Speaker 3 (21:03):
Wellors person says what bum sniffer said, that it's the
key we weigh by an old HQ hold and puts
mags on it, set a fluffy dice and put it
back on the market.

Speaker 4 (21:11):
Okay, yeah, that's a nice analogy. Keep those ticks giving
through on nine to two nine two.

Speaker 3 (21:18):
The thing I don't understand about it is people don't
have to buy the house. So you know, if it's
if you do up a property yep, and then sell it,
then someone's paying for it, and so they've decided it's
worth having it, right, Yeah, And so that person probably
would have decided not to wouldn't have brought it before

(21:39):
you've done what you've done to it. So what's the problem.
There is a market, You provide something for the market,
You put the work in, You take a bit of risk,
he makes a bit of money.

Speaker 4 (21:48):
Isn't that how it all works? Doesn't all of it
work like that?

Speaker 13 (21:51):
Quite?

Speaker 3 (21:51):
While are we particularly angry at so called well's what
she calling them. She's got a different name for its
property traders as opposed to flip it.

Speaker 4 (22:00):
Why are we so.

Speaker 3 (22:01):
Angry at that over anything else?

Speaker 2 (22:03):
It is how I risk And when you think about it,
so the idea of property trading or flipping is you're
not going to get somebody and to rent the place out.
So you've got to hope, as you say, when you
get it up to pass, that's going to take some time.
You've got to spend a bit of capital doing that.
Then you're going to put it on the market and
as we know, buy it first. Yeah, buy it first, sorry, yeah,
step ahead of myself. But then once you get it
to market, as we know, in the current climate, how

(22:24):
long does it sit on the market for? Yeah, I
mean I think it's almost at record thirty days sitting
on the market, but that is at the lower end.
It could be on the market for three months and
you don't have a renterer in there, so nobody's actually
paying in the meat time.

Speaker 3 (22:35):
It's like kicking down the door of a cake shop
and going look at you. You just got flour and
water and milk and eggs and sugar and then your
body putting it together, and then you're selling it as
a cake and you're making money. You're greedy bastards. How
dare you your dirty flour flipper?

Speaker 2 (22:51):
On one hundred, If you are a house flipper, tell
us how business is like and whether you detest the reputation.

Speaker 4 (22:59):
Sometimes you get Christina, how are you?

Speaker 12 (23:01):
Hey?

Speaker 14 (23:02):
How are you guys?

Speaker 4 (23:03):
Very good? So you're a full time house flipper?

Speaker 14 (23:05):
Yes, well, I would say my husband and I have
full time house flippers for seven to eight years, but
we're just now phasing out of it.

Speaker 3 (23:13):
Oh really, And just before we continue with that, So,
do you referd yourself as a house flipper a developer?

Speaker 14 (23:20):
No, Yeah, I feel like the helopper is the worst
word than flippers. House flippers. We're house flippers and proud
of it, and we really really enjoyed it. And I'm
not saying we'll never go back.

Speaker 4 (23:30):
Yep.

Speaker 14 (23:31):
It's just my husband. He's the one that would do
ninety percent of the work. I would film it for
Instagram and you know, pick out some tiles, but he
kind of was clocking obviously the market is shifting. I
think we've maybe done sixteen houses, and we did one
earlier in this year and it wasn't fine. We did

(23:53):
make a profit, but it's that it's the house is
sitting for that little bit too long and it's just yeah,
and we kind of had been renovating for a really
long time, so it's nice to have a bit of
a break, but it's that risk of it sitting there
for a really long time that that just actually we
were saying, it just takes the fun away because it's
a really really fun job. Right, Like we've we've had

(24:15):
a blast, which just the two of us, it's been great. Uh,
but yeah, it's it's it's not fun when it's sitting
happy because.

Speaker 3 (24:24):
You've got all that working capital and invested in it.
What about selecting the house to improve? What's that process?

Speaker 15 (24:32):
Like?

Speaker 14 (24:32):
Well, that's what a real shift has come. So when
we first started, it was kind of just you could
get any house that needed a decent renovation. We would
do everything, everything except anything that needed counsel.

Speaker 7 (24:46):
Right.

Speaker 14 (24:46):
So, and my husband was incredibly fast, so we were
doing like eight weeks. He would have good trades around
him for the bits he couldn't do, and so in
the past it felt like what what we were doing
was really really working. We and we've shared this across
our socials. We would say in in the beginning, spend
one hundred, make a hundred.

Speaker 3 (25:04):
What what are your socials Christina? If we wanted to
look them.

Speaker 14 (25:07):
Up, Well, we've shifted it now so it won't be
on there but demo to Reno. Yeah, so we'ves it's
not there now we're going to shift it into something else.
But we've you know, he has been shared it a
called socials. Yeah, it's good, right, And we worked with
brands and man, we had well and I say had
as in I think we will do it again. But

(25:28):
it's just the market has shifted that little bit too
much where we're like and we've got kids, like we've
got a mortgage, like we can't. You evaluate the risk
and then you take it from there, right.

Speaker 3 (25:39):
Yeah, So when you were doing you know, you said
that your husband was doing most of the work. How
many hours awake is that if you if you're trying
to get it done to night wakes, he must be
working long hours.

Speaker 14 (25:49):
Flat tack, absolutely flat tack. But then the other thing
about flipping is you've got big gaps between So it's
like my main job would be constantly trying to find
the next property. So because once it goes on the market,
you're kind of done with your work until you have
your next one. So we would have these big gaps.
But for that kind of six to eight weeks, Uh,

(26:10):
my husband would be gone off sparrows and back late.
I mean, he loved it, and it's you know, he's
really good at what he was doing, and so when
he's working, when he was working on a property, he
would go, go, go, and then we would have these
kind of gaps in between, right, which is a positive
and a negative because he's also like, I don't know,
like a bull in a you'd try, like I don't know,

(26:31):
like he needs to work. So like these gaps weren't
always great too.

Speaker 2 (26:34):
Do you find a lot of those properties off market? Christina?
As a house flipper, I mean, you've done it for
seven years. You must make context within the real estate game.
Is a lot of those properties you find that have
potential not on the market yet.

Speaker 14 (26:46):
Well, see, this is where the shift has come as well.
So in the past it wouldn't matter. We just if
something was listed, we would go and bid and if
it worked, it worked. Now we've the last couple of
Monthes we did was off market and we ended up
doing door drops, so like dropping off a letter being like, hey,
we love this house. If you're interested in selling privately,
let us know, because what would happen is I feel

(27:09):
like the buyers have shifted with the market, right, So
a buyer all of a sudden we look at a
house and go, well, that I can see that was
purchased for that, you know, yay, ago, why would I
spend more on that? You know what I mean? And
so we would try to do some stuff off market,
and we've had almost all successes. We had one major
loss maybe three years ago, right when that right when

(27:31):
the market just dipped.

Speaker 1 (27:32):
Ya.

Speaker 14 (27:33):
We just bought in an area that we thought was
great wasn't as good, and man, we lost on that.
So there is you know, there's massive risk in it
and you got to work really hard. But it's also
bloody fun, you know.

Speaker 3 (27:48):
Yeah, it must be pretty cool to see some kind
of disastrous rundown situation. You guys got hot on it
and by the end of the after puches compared to
the before pitches.

Speaker 4 (27:59):
That must be fun.

Speaker 14 (28:01):
Yeah, totally. And one thing you mentioned before which I
find really interesting, you mentioned, you know, now you're a auction,
is it bad that these house flippers are out fitting
first home buyers. So the last handful of auctions we
went to it was the opposite. It's the first home
buyers outpitting us because we know how tight our margins
in are, especially in this market. So the first rone

(28:21):
buyers like, we love it, we can hold it, we
can see the vision, we can spend the money on
it down the tack, but we want this house. Well,
we're going oh no, we want it, but not that much.
It's the margins are too tight. Back on the market
in eight weeks.

Speaker 3 (28:36):
What about if timing is a big part of it.
Add does the council consenting and stuff go, because well.

Speaker 14 (28:41):
We don't do council consents, so that's that's kind of
that was kind of what we did. So we would
just do like for like, so we didn't do anything
that required consent. So you know, beautiful kitchens that matched.
You know, the dishwasher goes where the dishwasher was, So
we're not needing to go down that path because that's
where it gets.

Speaker 4 (28:57):
That's where it gets, you know, adding bathrooms.

Speaker 14 (29:01):
No, not adding we're not doing extensions. That's not what
we did. Of course, a ton of how we got
to know a lot of house slippers in it, and
I think that's also where you know you talked about
like householpers having a maybe a good or bad name.
Through social media, we could We had a lot of
conversations with a lot of people who were like, man,
this is what we want to do, so we'd really

(29:22):
positive around us. We also know that there's people like
every industry that can like cut corners and they're really
in it for the dollar. For me and my husband
was about like the lifestyle, working for ourselves, him using
his skills, me using my skills, and doing really really
really great houses, great quality too, you know.

Speaker 3 (29:40):
And at the end of it, are you bringing in
a real estate agent? Are you working as the vendor
to sell it? How does it get back on the market.

Speaker 14 (29:49):
Yeah, we tried that once, like selling privately. I definitely
know of a couple of householpers that do it, and
they do it well, and I tried it, and honestly, like,
I think it's because the houses that we were selling
in the area, which is a reua. I think the
demographic we were selling to was retirees, and they I
think kind of brought up like money laundering and I
don't know who you are. I think they just trust

(30:11):
the model of I bought it through an agent, so
we have family members that are agents, and so we
just ended up giving it to them. And it's nicer
for us because I found it stressful kind of sell it.

Speaker 4 (30:22):
Yeah, Yeah, it's a different set of skills. I guess. Now,
what about tax how does that work on it?

Speaker 3 (30:27):
So you know, there's the there's the bright line situation
and there's also you know, you're paying yourself salaries. I guess,
so is the tax part of it complicated?

Speaker 14 (30:38):
Oh no, that mean you just pay the tax. So
we did everything for our accountant. We never held anything
long enough to not have to pay. We just paid
hefty ass tax. Just you don't look and you just
and he just you know, I always know is the
day of my husband's paying tax or sorting the tax,
because he was always needed a beer at the end
of that day.

Speaker 16 (30:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (30:59):
Yeah, so you need someone, You need someone that can
that's you know, as you say, your husband's a skilled
you know, affixing all the stuff up.

Speaker 4 (31:06):
So that's what you need.

Speaker 3 (31:07):
That's that's the hour is being pumped and that's where
you can make the money.

Speaker 17 (31:10):
Right.

Speaker 3 (31:10):
So yeah, And I think people forget about that. If
they're just calling it a flipper. They're imagining that you
buy it and you sell it, you make some money.
They're not realizing it's just a whole lot of work.

Speaker 14 (31:21):
And I think HGTV, which by the way, we're in
love with, like you know, we love Chipping, Joanna Gains
and all that kind of stuff. We look at that
and I think a lot of people look at these
episodes by an ugly house husband and wife having fun,
you know, with their little goggles on, knocking out a
wall in the kitchen, and then they put it on
and well they made so much money and it can

(31:44):
you know, but it's a heck of a lot of work.
And it's also the stress behind it, you know. And
I think that's why we're going to piece out of
slipping for a little while, because it's that risk factor.
And so that's why I say good on anybody, whether
it's a young couple or you know, a family or
whoever that's buying a property, sees potential and it wants

(32:05):
to put in the work, they should get the reward.
That's fantastic. And also there's a lot of people that
will never want to renovate, and so you are putting
a property back on that's ready for somebody who, like
we had people tell us that all the time, like
I don't want to renovate. I have the skills or
the time or the energy to renovate.

Speaker 4 (32:25):
So thanks for the house.

Speaker 14 (32:26):
It's the past thing to put a great house back on.

Speaker 4 (32:28):
Yeah, yeah, Christina, thank you very much for your call.
Very interesting.

Speaker 2 (32:32):
So if you're like a Katrina, Rather if you're a
house flipper currently or if you are deciding to piece
out as she said as well, can you hear your story? Oh,
eight hundred eighty ten eighty, it is sixteen sixteen to two.

Speaker 1 (32:43):
You have a chat with the lads on eight hundred
eighty ten eighty. Matt Heath and Tyler Adams afternoons used
talk s.

Speaker 4 (32:50):
It'd be came in hot, you came in early, Twiler.
I certainly do a story of my life.

Speaker 2 (32:55):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, I'm so excited about this topic. We
are talking about house flippers and plenty of teachs coming through.

Speaker 3 (33:01):
We need house flippers. Is a six that do renovation work.
If they don't fix the house, then who will?

Speaker 11 (33:06):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (33:06):
The sixes people may not be a weird Normally, when
people need a mortgage, they need a builders inspecs in
their house with some relatively small issues. The banks just
won't lend, so traders investors can fix it up and
remedy those issues. Yes, Jackson, you're a flipper.

Speaker 15 (33:22):
Yeah, I agree with the previous caller. I'm not competing
with first home buyers. I go after homes that are
you know, wouldn't pass their healthy homes test, So therefore
their banks probably won't lend to them, and you know,
the margins aren't enough for me to outbid them, and

(33:43):
they'll come in. And if they're going to renovate, well
we're probably at the same number.

Speaker 4 (33:47):
Does that change, Yeah, it does make sense. Yeah, I
see what you're saying.

Speaker 3 (33:51):
Yeah, so if they're planning to move in and then
renovate the thing, then they're going to have to invest
in it anyway, aren't they.

Speaker 7 (33:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 15 (33:58):
Yeah, and the margin doesn't work well with bright line
and yahd yadayah, and they.

Speaker 4 (34:02):
Get the advantage to hold it on for longer. Yeah.

Speaker 15 (34:05):
Yeah, But the demonization of flippers it isn't quite fair.
I don't think given them. The number of empty homes
across New Zealand, and the last stat I saw was
at like forty thousand homes haven't had anyone in them
for a year two years plus, Well maybe that should
be a target of the government to say, well that

(34:26):
stock is just sitting idle and fallow and not doing anything,
then maybe we should be getting those homes back into
the system. I've got a home three doors down from me,
haven't been lived in for fifteen years and it's great home.

Speaker 3 (34:40):
And what's happening with it? Jackson?

Speaker 15 (34:42):
Oh, the chap just has ten or fifteen homes around
town and they land sort of land banking. They're all
nice homes. He potters around and keeps them up to
speck and all of that sort of stuff.

Speaker 3 (34:56):
But it doesn't even read them out.

Speaker 7 (34:58):
No, I've tried.

Speaker 15 (34:59):
I tried to rent it when I was going to
renovate my own home.

Speaker 7 (35:02):
There it goes.

Speaker 3 (35:03):
No, I just want to sitting there for fifteen years.
It's with a capital gain. Obviously it could be a
body buried. Yeah, And how's the how's it going? How's
the business now, Jackson? The flipping business, Well, it's for me.

Speaker 15 (35:18):
It's my job. You know, I'm not getting rich out
of it. I'll do one maybe two a year. It's
just me by myself. The wife comes in and does
color and decorating and that sort of thing, because she's
very good at that. It's a living less than an MP.

Speaker 3 (35:38):
And And what's the work like? Do you get joy
out of the work turning something around?

Speaker 15 (35:42):
I enjoy doing the work. And we're talking rot and
you know, shitty houses that I wouldn't my kids would
look at twice at university sort of, you know, Deneden
for this stuff. And you know, it's a nice job,
that's a hard job. It's you know, seven till five
or whatever every day. It's a job. But you seem

(36:06):
to get penalized for doing it and putting these things
back into the system.

Speaker 9 (36:09):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (36:10):
I think people have this picture of a flipper and
it's almost like a real estate agent that signs the
deal and sells it that afternoon for an extra four
hundred thousand dollars or whatever and is light. Yeah, you know,
I think I think they're conflating. They're conflating a whole
lot of different headlines into one thing, Jackson.

Speaker 15 (36:25):
And there's also groups, you know, larger groups. There's a
few people at there, quite a lot of people like me,
but there are larger groups who are ruthless, you know.
Bottom line. Well, you know, I think there's a difference
between you know, people who do it as a job
make a few bucks, then large groups or as you say,

(36:47):
real estate agents who turn it around in an hour
and a half and make half a million dollars.

Speaker 3 (36:51):
Yeah, and then I mean they're not allowed to do
that and they get busted hope.

Speaker 2 (36:55):
Yeah, Yeah, but just on the Jackson, you know like
you're one of the good guys out there, clearly that
you're picking up these these unlivable homes and you're doing
them up, getting them ready for market. But when times
are good in the in the property market and it's
going hot, you've got to met. There would have been
some house slippers, property traders out there that would have
outbird potential first time buyers because the market was going up.

Speaker 7 (37:17):
Sure, sure, but there's a lot of houses.

Speaker 15 (37:19):
To sale in that market. Yeah, yeah, you know what
I mean, and the numbers fall away as the market
gets worse. People are holding them longer, so swings in roundabouts.
But you know, I mean bright line really hurts.

Speaker 18 (37:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (37:34):
Yeah, it's a lot of text to pay on it.

Speaker 15 (37:36):
Yeah, it's a lot of text to pay. And then
if I pay myself, I've got text to pay on that.
And yeah, you know, by the time I've sunk one
hundred grand or one hundred and fifty into something, then
you know it's not sort of souper yachts and maseratis.

Speaker 4 (37:54):
Yeah, thank you for your call.

Speaker 2 (37:55):
Jackson nicely said, thank you very much. Right taking your calls, Oh,
eight hundred and eighty ten eighty. It is seven to two.

Speaker 1 (38:01):
Matt Heath Taylor Adams taking your calls on oh, eight
hundred and eighty ten eighty. It's mad Heathen Tyler Adams
aren't what's news News talks end.

Speaker 4 (38:11):
It is four to two. A couple of texts before
the news hits us.

Speaker 3 (38:14):
I don't understand this text, didn'ts These house flippers have
to work and pay tax.

Speaker 4 (38:18):
Welcome to my world before my injury.

Speaker 3 (38:20):
These house flippers think they are heroes because they buy
shithouses and fix them up and sell them. How does
that make them better than anyone else? I don't think
they were claiming to be better than anyone else.

Speaker 4 (38:29):
That makes no sense that you were working until you
did something to your leg, But they are clearly working
as well, So.

Speaker 3 (38:34):
I think I think they're just saying that it's an
you know, it's like any other profession.

Speaker 4 (38:38):
Yeah, you work hard and then you make some money.

Speaker 2 (38:42):
And is there anything wrong with that? If you're a
house flipper, is that exactly what you're doing? Tell us
we're going to carry this on obviously after two o'clock.
Oh eight hundred and eighty ten eighty is that number?
And if you want to send a text nine two
ninety two.

Speaker 4 (38:52):
Is that number.

Speaker 19 (38:53):
News is next, the big stories, the big issues, the
big trends and everything in between.

Speaker 1 (39:07):
Matt Heath and Time are Adams Afternoons US talk said the.

Speaker 2 (39:12):
Sex by us too great, heavy company this afternoon. I
hope you having a pretty good Tuesday. And we have
been talking about house flippers property traders, but the term
house flipper has become something of a slur in recent decades.
But those investors or property traders are now pushing back
saying they're not taking homes away from buyers. They're actually
adding value to properties that might otherwise set untouched. We
heard from many house flippers last hour saying they're doing

(39:34):
just that. But listen to investor Immer Hanover who says
the perception of flippers is unfair.

Speaker 6 (39:39):
So we're buying houses at the banks, won't land on
with asbestos, with leaking roofs, with holes, with myth contamination,
and we're putting clean, healthy stock back on the market
that they can afford. Most property traders are selling at
a lower price than a homeowner because we want to
move our stock quickly.

Speaker 2 (39:58):
So is that true O e one hundred eighty ten
eighty or do you push back on the idea that
house flippers property traders add value to society.

Speaker 3 (40:05):
Well, now you go with the last name Hanover, because
you that's just evokes for me, the two thousand and
eight collapse of the non bank finance campaign company Hangover Hangover.

Speaker 2 (40:16):
I thought the same thing when I read that last name.
I thought, Oh, that's not related at all. No, No,
that's an unfortunate coincidence that your name may invoke stuff
involuntarily and.

Speaker 3 (40:27):
People this text that says, could you please read that
punishing text complaining about flippers like you? I could not
understand the guy's point. Also, what's the injury you got
to do with it? So the text was ditems, these
house flippers have to work and pay tax. Welcome to
my world before my injury. These house flippers think they're
heroes because they buy crap houses and fix them up

(40:48):
and sell them. How does that make them better than me?
Such a strange text, isn't it? Because a before my injury?
I don't know where you bought your injury? Yeah, I
mean we need some more context and what happened there?
So a bit better on that. Welcome to this person's
world before their injury. So obviously in their injury. Now
they're getting some kind of payment outside of work. Yes,

(41:08):
but I don't think house flips is a claiming to
be heroes. But I think they've been derided and run down.
And really what miss Hannover is saying is that they
actually do a service and that they're taking stock that
is unsellable and unmorgible and they're turning it into something
that good clean stock that can go into for.

Speaker 4 (41:30):
People to buy it. Right, that's sure.

Speaker 3 (41:31):
Yeah, So it's of houses that would just sit there
and can't do anything. They give them some value and
they make some money, but it's incredibly hard work. You've
got to turn these houses around, yeah, you know, especially
if they're absolute dung is full of asbestos.

Speaker 4 (41:44):
A lot of risk involved.

Speaker 3 (41:45):
Yeah, but you're right, and you take a risk and
you may make some money, yep. And in good times
you probably make really good money, but then in bad
times you potentially lose a lot of money.

Speaker 4 (41:54):
One hundred percent, oh, one hundred and eighty ten eighty.

Speaker 2 (41:57):
If you are a property trader or house flipper, we
want to hear from you what's your experience being like?
But Roger, you'll been in the real estate game for
twenty five years. Twenty five years, yep, beauty and what's
your experience when it comes to property traders?

Speaker 11 (42:13):
Look over that time.

Speaker 7 (42:15):
What's changed is the bioprofile. Now. You know, twenty years ago,
you'd have a young couple coming along first home, and
they'd have the old grumpy fALS in law that were
trailing behind or coming for a second visit. Have a
look at a house, kick it, complain about the roof,
complain about everything, and I want to drive the price
down and look that sort of life. You know, we

(42:35):
will get that. But that young couple bought that house,
and then that thousand law would spend weekends helping them
do it up. First home, make the dollars shift up,
get a bigger house. Our story.

Speaker 3 (42:50):
So really, those first time buyers are being their own
property flipper in a way.

Speaker 7 (42:56):
Absolutely, yeah, and that is that has always been the
key we way I you know, I don't think yeah,
look all of my friends have done it. Brought something
which was a dog didn't bark, but it certainly was
a and an actual fact, they were the best kind
of properties that you could actually market because you used

(43:17):
to get just noodles of people inquiring about it and
looking at it because you know, we will have an
imagination and just wanting to make something out of it.
So they were always good. Today there's a big change around.
And this is why I tend to agree with probably
everything that you know, the people in the industry have said.

(43:39):
And I mean I had I do a lot of
South and East Auckland. Now I had a really neat house,
really good location, one or two on a cross lease.
Vendors had put a new roof on it, put you
join you in and complete it had a paintrol on
the outside. It was it just was a really neat house.

(44:06):
I had first time buyers coming through, just not one
of them. Well, it took ages. It took quite a
while of self had flippers come through as well. They
went up on the mark with the money and then
I did get a first home by buying it. But
you know it wasn't just sort of all playing saleing
getters over the line. I had one which well I

(44:29):
was at six twenty two bedroom one of two again
wrote frontage ourselves, nice looking little house and dependent had
a garage. Yeah, it had been lived in for quite
a long time and had nothing done to it. I
had four flippers after that and one home buy that

(44:54):
sort ultimately was sort of in the max. Now home
By didn't pitch up for the auction and I had
full flithers game for it. That was subsequently put back
on the market with a new roof. They made into
a three new kitchen, new bathroom, painted inside and out.
It looked really good and sold up into the region

(45:17):
of about seven sixty. Now they would have spent some
good money on that.

Speaker 4 (45:23):
So from six twenty six twenty you say to seven.

Speaker 7 (45:26):
Sixty, yeah, just under.

Speaker 3 (45:28):
So that's that's not a lot of When you put
in the amount of hours of work and everything that's
been spent, that's you're not not making much at all.
And then if you've got the bright line in there
as well.

Speaker 7 (45:39):
Yeah, that's exactly right. It's you know, I mean, there's
it's it's easy to think that you're making a lot
of money, but you take out the tax, taking out
all the input, and that's it's it's Look, it's a
hard job. You were going to work, You've got to
put a lot of effort in. You've also got to
make it salable. Now, you know, this is what it is.

(46:02):
The market rules, and this is the whole point of
real estate.

Speaker 11 (46:05):
So he's going to sit back and see.

Speaker 7 (46:07):
O jandle where you're starting to complain about guys making
a few dollars on a house on selling it, but
you've got to put a lot of effort in to
get that, and then you've still got to find a buyer.
And I don't think there's many flippers out there that
haven't taken a bath on at least one property or
had had to hold it or an extended period.

Speaker 3 (46:29):
Essentially, what you say about the market deciding, isn't it
because you can go look at this place. It's beautiful,
it's three beer dreams, two bathrooms, look at this wonderful kitchen,
and then you go, this is the price, and then
the market goes, no, that's essentially not the price.

Speaker 7 (46:41):
Yeah, yeah, and it's just out of flavor. People don't
look at it. The market's always shifting, and Auckland as
a market, it's a multiple market and at the moment, well,
we all know what it's like, and yeah, it is
the market. And so you've got you've got to meet
the market. And if you're prepared to meet the market

(47:02):
on the day, then you will sell your property. That's
what it's all about. But the days of love by
is coming along and swooning over it.

Speaker 1 (47:12):
Is just not there.

Speaker 3 (47:15):
You know, you've got maybe you're a trading and you've
got the skills right, but it seems to me that
people have less and less skills. If then if they're
not you know, builder by trade, then you know you
talk about the father in law or whatever. You know,
it seems to me about a one generation back. Most
people could do a bit of renovations. But I think

(47:35):
less and less people unless it's their profession. I think
there's less and less people just walking around with the
skills to turn the house around by by a fixer
upp as their first home and then spend you know,
five years doing it up. I think there's less and less.
What have you noticed that, Roger?

Speaker 7 (47:48):
Oh, look absolutely, And that's probably what the point I
was going to rise raises that your average first home
by today does themselves a big deserves because they don't
really want to do anything on a Saturday afternoon around
the house. Yeah right, but then it's just they wanted
all perfect an actual fact. They want to buy their

(48:09):
parents home. They want a four bedroom On tweet double garage,
were swimming pool out the back and be able to
walk to the beach. I mean that's they really do
want stuff that is well in excess of what.

Speaker 3 (48:20):
They instagram thinking as well, isn't it. Because there's always
someone that will put up the hand and show off
about the incredible life as opposed to buying an absolute
crapper and a terrible place and then and then doing
a whole lot of work and then moving up a
lot more discerning to say, Roger, you know when when
I bought my first time a little bit later in life.

(48:41):
My partner is a bit younger, but it's a beautiful
at home three bedroom, almost a new build. But when
all the rallies came around and all of them said
the same things, they see your first time, you got
a bit richier.

Speaker 7 (48:51):
Mates, you just don't get them the first time. And
I look, I mean this is probably a sidebar, but
young first home buyers today they're getting corralled through the
banks into teriff'd housing and there's just no value going
forward with those apart from you know, in fation because

(49:15):
and this is where that like the smarts and the
ones that are still prepared to get in to do
some work. They're the ones that are picking up house
on a half site, needs a bit of work, and
providing the bank will actually back them on it, they're
good to go. But the banks went through a stage
there where really they weren't interested. They were just not interested.

(49:36):
In the old days, you'd buy the house, you go
back to the bank and say, listen, I need another
twenty grand top up for improvements and doing it blah
blah blah, and you'd sell that to them and they
would happily do that. Today, No, it's I think to
being z I think has got a home a home

(50:00):
renovation loan that you can go for. But we had
a stage in there where banks this when interested.

Speaker 3 (50:06):
And zienda lending. I see bill around fifty thousand dollars
or something renovation loans.

Speaker 7 (50:12):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and they rolled under that, which it's and.

Speaker 3 (50:17):
Look, by the time you get someone through, by the
time you get someone through to do something, though, fifty
thousand going to go along away, Well.

Speaker 7 (50:24):
You can chew fifty out pretty quick. What's what's so
hard painting a house inside?

Speaker 1 (50:31):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (50:31):
Yeah, yeah, Well Tyler's been around in my house and
how much did I shut off about the job I
did painting the outside of the house.

Speaker 2 (50:39):
There's a great paint job in the roof. On the roof, yeah,
but too much liking for my liking. But do you
dare there is no liking on my roof? You take
that back.

Speaker 4 (50:47):
You painted over. So that's one way to deal with it.
So it's real estate.

Speaker 3 (50:51):
How was real estate at the moment, because we hear
a lot of stories, but just the general business, Roger.

Speaker 7 (50:55):
Is, Look, look, it's funny. Actually were having chat. We
had a summit last week, the company summers and one
of the guys was saying, are we yacking about this
this this particular subject. Then he sat and that's really great.
If you've just sold our house, market is fantastic. And
I guess that really does put it into context. There's
the fourth downturn that I'll take, that I'll expect, and

(51:19):
this would be by far the longest and the hardest,
and that's because of what's been previously, What happened previously
with the you know, the runaway sort of costs and
super low you know, mortgage things. And now of course
you add that, so we've got a bit of a

(51:39):
perfect storm. You've got that, so we've still got the
holdover from that. You've got good old trumpy plant silly
buggers in the Middle.

Speaker 20 (51:48):
East, and you've also got which a lot of which
it shouldn't make any difference, but psychologically the market always
shudders when we're coming up for an election. It doesn't
matter who's going to get in, but the market always
everybody hank back. I just look at the numbers of
views on current property. I've got quite a lot of viewing.

(52:14):
There's a lot of and then way down a number.

Speaker 7 (52:17):
Of actually sort of keeping keeping tabs on it, and
then way way down, really right down to the number
of people that have actually inquired.

Speaker 3 (52:32):
So what about that Sunario comes into summer elections over
things in the Middle East to calm down. Yep, you
can see people just getting a little bit chill, more
stable and just and then the property market it's going
to come back.

Speaker 7 (52:46):
Look the property Look, the property market's always fluid. It's
always it's always and it's a bit like the way
I have what amount of harbor. I mean, you're not
getting great big waves coming through it, but you've got
this sort of gentle rolling lap and so it keeps
on rolling like that. And as I said, with Auckland.
You drop a peble in the middle of an ocean,
you know, in a pond, and it ripples out. Well,

(53:08):
that tends to be the way that property does. You know,
the market does sort of happen. And yeah, honestly it's
great time to buy in the middle of window that
a lot of people just prefer to stay on the
couch and watch TV.

Speaker 4 (53:21):
Yeah, fair enough to go. Yeah, Roger, great to chat
with you. Thank you very much.

Speaker 8 (53:25):
Joe.

Speaker 2 (53:25):
Eight hundred and eighty ten eighty is the number to call.
It is twenty one past two.

Speaker 1 (53:29):
Wow your home of afternoon talk, Mad Heathen Taylor Adams
afternoons call, Oh, eight hundred eighty ten eighty youth talk. Said, be.

Speaker 2 (53:39):
Very good afternoon, Jill. We are talking about house flipping
or property traders.

Speaker 4 (53:43):
We're talking about to.

Speaker 3 (53:44):
Roger before, and he was saying that people aren't as
practical as they used to be and that that makes
it harder to buy a house as the first time
buyer and then you know, work on away at the
weekends and then sell it for a bit more and
move up, move to a better.

Speaker 4 (53:57):
Place with a flesher house. Whatever.

Speaker 3 (53:58):
Yeah, I was just reading this article about myself and
the Herald. Actually, Tyler, it's good article, that one about
my bris and engagement. And in the interview with my
partner Tracy, she described me as practical. I saw that
and listen to this. Mat is always doing large outside projects. Well,
I have a lot of indoor projects, she says. Is

(54:19):
that sort of thinking that I'm It was nice to
read that about myself, that I'm practical and bucking the
trend of people that are too useless to do things.

Speaker 4 (54:25):
I'm pretty practical.

Speaker 2 (54:26):
I don't think you had it in you, to be honest, mate,
But look, you're getting the shed ready. I saw that. Well,
actually there's no shed there. You were just getting the
grape vin vineyards. I'm sitting up setting up a vinyard.

Speaker 4 (54:38):
Yeah, so you're getting the vines and you're placing them
on another part of the property. I mean that's pretty practical.
But then you're just getting that little area ready for
the shed. Then comes the hard part once you start
building the shed yourself.

Speaker 3 (54:47):
Then, and when I say I'm running a vinyard, I'm wondering,
I is it possible to grow enough grapes to make
one bottle of wine and then sell it for ten
thousand dollars because it's the one bottle of wine. You
make it your vineyard because it's only got two rows
of grapes. How many vines you got? It was just
the one, wasn't it got a few vines. We got
a few vines, got a few vines going. Actually, speaking

(55:08):
of my partner, Tracy, she must be listening because she says,
this would be a good time for you to drop
into your show, that your partner is in real estate.

Speaker 4 (55:16):
It is a good time. Actually, it's perfect timing. She said.

Speaker 3 (55:19):
You could say my partner is in real estate, and
she says the same things that guy are just on
election year world events, because we hear about everything so
much now everything is everyone is so scared to do anything,
and people want to wait for summer. But then you
miss the chance to get in before the crowds.

Speaker 4 (55:35):
Good on youre. Tracy nicely said we should have gone
to Tracy first. Tracy Lydiard.

Speaker 3 (55:39):
All right, Ray White, Tracy Lydiard, ray White, Westalkland.

Speaker 2 (55:44):
Go see she'll sort you out. All right, get those
things covering through on nine to two. Nine to two,
we're a bit late, so we're going to play some
messages but when we come back, we'll have a chat
with Glenn who tried to have a bit of flirtation
in the world of house flipping, so let us know
how it actually went for him. That is coming up
next to it is twenty six parts two, The.

Speaker 1 (56:02):
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Speaker 3 (56:10):
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the lawns, fick things around the house, but the minute
they need attention, we're right on it. But when it
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Speaker 4 (56:21):
That is so true, Matt.

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Speaker 4 (57:10):
Last use code News.

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as directed about how Auckland.

Speaker 1 (57:21):
Matt Heath and Tyler Adams afternoons Call oh eight hundred
and eighty ten eighty on US Talk ZB.

Speaker 4 (57:27):
Twenty nine past two. Get a glen.

Speaker 21 (57:29):
Okay, Well, I started listening to your program about forty
five minutes ago, Yes, and you were talking about someone
who was buying a property and then an hour let
us having out a five hundred thousand dollars more. We
know that these days it doesn't happen, but about ten
twenty years ago it was happening quite a bit. And
nice say that because I was involved in the property

(57:52):
market as an investor.

Speaker 11 (57:54):
My wife and I and we.

Speaker 21 (57:56):
Knew off people who would who would who would do that,
and was quite common practice. For some people. And I'd
go as far as to say that at the time,
there were people out there using the property market as
a casino, sort of banking on the fact that they
could make money by putting a deposit on a property
and setting up before it reached settlement, right.

Speaker 11 (58:19):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (58:19):
And it was this because I think we were talking
about actual real estate agents that have been caught doing
that in the past, as that were now well real
estate agents.

Speaker 21 (58:26):
There were people who were buying it and then on
setting them and using all the legal going through all
the legal loopholes and ten two thousand and five to
twenty fiften, you can do that and get away with it,
and that I think where the stigma of property flippers
came in. It was due to that prayer. But the

(58:49):
market has shifted. Things that changed the right lights had
a huge impact.

Speaker 15 (58:54):
You know.

Speaker 21 (58:54):
I know people who bought properties and say two thousand
and eight, collected or extracted as much rent to add
out of the properties as they could without doing a
thing to them, and then selling them two years later
making a two hundred thousand dollars profit. Yeah, and that's
that's I think where where that you know, it's.

Speaker 3 (59:12):
Kind of an unfair comparison, isn't it, Glenn. Between someone
that buys a rundown property that is unlivable and unmortgagible
and then puts in the work to make it a
good house and stop that someone could live in, they're
totally different things, aren't they, Glenn.

Speaker 11 (59:26):
Yeah, yeah they are. And I mean I've done that.

Speaker 21 (59:28):
We've been there and we've made fifty thousand dollars after
spending one hundred thousand dollars getting getting I mean a
lot of things I could do myself, but getting things
like having a new roof put on, and that we
just thought, well, it's not really worth it for us,
so we, you know, maybe I'm better off working full time.

Speaker 3 (59:47):
There's going to be a situation now where where if
it gets too hard with the bright line and you know,
the expenses and cost of materials, all that kind of stuff,
the amount of work it is with houses are just
not going to be moved, you know, like terrible houses.
Houses are going to be run down, as you say,
being rented or whatever, but it's just not going to
be worth fixing fixing them up, So no one's going
to be making you know, that will just end up

(01:00:09):
with a bunch of terrible housing stock because it's just
not worth people people doing it could.

Speaker 4 (01:00:13):
Be that way.

Speaker 21 (01:00:14):
I mean, the constable materials in New Zealand is horrific.
I've seen New Zealand timber cheap in Australia and they
have in New Zealand.

Speaker 4 (01:00:21):
That's crazy.

Speaker 21 (01:00:23):
Yeah, it is horrific. So there's all these factors that
have caused the shift in the market. You know, if
you get in at the right time, the right place,
you can do well. But the days, the crazy days
of the early to mid two thousands of one, I'm
truly gone.

Speaker 11 (01:00:41):
That's right, that's my experience.

Speaker 4 (01:00:42):
Think they'll ever come back.

Speaker 21 (01:00:45):
It depends how much we value property, and I think
property was way overvalued and people were putting too much
value on property and it was just too much competition
for property that had had arisen out of the fact
that people had put too much value on property.

Speaker 3 (01:01:02):
Yeah, yeah, it does definitely felt like I needed a
writing that's right. Yeah, it was out of control in
twenty twenty one, in twenty twenty two, wasn't it.

Speaker 2 (01:01:09):
Yeah, But it is a shame glean you know, like
people like yourself that you're not seeing much value in
the standalone homes, doing them up and putting them back
on the market airs is but who is seeing value
and nothing gainst developers. But I don't like that a
beautiful home that's got potential then get snapped up by
a developer because of the land value, and then seven
townhouses get get whacked up.

Speaker 17 (01:01:28):
Yeah.

Speaker 21 (01:01:28):
Well, I don't know. I mean, I've got mixed feelings
about that. Maybe that's it's just the way of the
world when we've just got to get used to it.
I don't know, I've got mixed feelings about that.

Speaker 3 (01:01:36):
Yeah, well in the townhouses and there's townhouses, there's some
of the ones that I'm saying that are just they
already look like slums and they've just been finished.

Speaker 4 (01:01:44):
Yeah, as opposed to you can make a look.

Speaker 15 (01:01:46):
Out of place, look out of characters.

Speaker 3 (01:01:47):
Yeah you can. You can actually make a quality townhouse obviously.
But yeah, hey, thanks for you call, Glenn. Appreciate it,
Thank you very much.

Speaker 2 (01:01:54):
So are you with Glenn I e one hundred and eighty
ten eighty Or if you're a current property traded slash
house flipper, how's it going for you?

Speaker 4 (01:02:00):
Tell us nine two nine two. If you want to
send a text message, but.

Speaker 3 (01:02:02):
SIXA says, can you ask your next real estate agent
or house flipper if there's any hanky panky happening in
the empty houses?

Speaker 4 (01:02:08):
All right, okay, we can I guess, but you've put
that to Tracy.

Speaker 3 (01:02:11):
Actually it's a bit off topic.

Speaker 16 (01:02:12):
That one.

Speaker 4 (01:02:13):
It's bit full on is twenty six to three beckon
the month.

Speaker 12 (01:02:17):
You've talk said be headlines with your Ride, New Zealand's
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(01:02:40):
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(01:03:04):
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(01:03:28):
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Back to matt Ethan Tyler Adams.

Speaker 4 (01:03:37):
Thank you very much, rae Llen.

Speaker 2 (01:03:38):
It is twenty two to three and we're talking about
property trading or house flipping, whatever term you want to use.

Speaker 3 (01:03:44):
Sam said, this is the opposite of that house flipping.
I purchased a house in twenty twenty one, paid eight
hundred k, spent three hundred k on it and they
say it's worth five hundred and sixty Now, oh mate,
Yeah that hurts well if you're living in it. Yeah,
you've just got to sit tight, sit tight, and hopefully
the well the market will pick up eventually, no doubt
about it. Just living it forever, Yeah, yeah, exactly, Mark,

(01:04:08):
you are a big property trader. You trade about eight
steen properties a year.

Speaker 11 (01:04:12):
I do. I do actually on the north shore of Auckland.

Speaker 4 (01:04:16):
Brilliant.

Speaker 2 (01:04:17):
And so how did you get into the game of
property trading? Do you like property trading or are you
okay with house flipping?

Speaker 22 (01:04:23):
I don't care what you call it, mate, to be
honest with you, Look, I've been I've been involved in property.
I brought my first house when I was eighteen in
West Auckland, grew up in a statehouse, so that was
a big thing for me. But ultimately, I've been involved
in property investing and trading for forty years now, a
long long time. And so property trading for me is

(01:04:46):
my full time job now and I really enjoy it.

Speaker 11 (01:04:49):
I love buying.

Speaker 22 (01:04:51):
I mean the houses that I buy, and Emma said
it before, are houses that no one else will genuinely
buy except for someone like me. You know, my recent
purchase had been vacant for four years, was covered in
black mold, had holes in the roof, whole in the floor,
rotten deck. I mean, you know that's and when I

(01:05:12):
put that back on the market, that'll be a beautiful
first home for a family.

Speaker 3 (01:05:16):
You know, so if you're doing eight to ten a
year talk us through your operation, it must be must
be quite massive.

Speaker 22 (01:05:25):
Well, I have about twenty contractors that either work for
me full time or work for me part time. And
I had a renovations and maintenance coming for a long
time which I exited out of recently.

Speaker 11 (01:05:36):
So I've had those guys with me. So they make what.

Speaker 22 (01:05:39):
I do quite simple in regards to you know, they're
used to doing it. They've done a lot of property
for me. But I have agents bringing I buy a
lot of property that doesn't get to market because no
one's going to buy it.

Speaker 11 (01:05:50):
So those are you.

Speaker 22 (01:05:51):
Know, rentals that have been sitting around or you know,
you know baby boomers that have done nothing on these properties,
a lot of deceased the states where you know, people
just want to sell their property and they want a
cash offer and they don't want the stress of dealing
with real estate agents and having to clear things out.
So I'm constantly having properties brought to me. I'm constantly

(01:06:14):
looking for properties. I'll have up to three properties on
the go at once, different levels of renovation. So it's busy,
it's fun, it's exciting, and it's rewarding, but it's hugely
risky as well.

Speaker 4 (01:06:28):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:06:29):
I think that's the part that people are forgetting that.
You know, there's a big investment not only in buying
the house, but also time and the money spent doing it,
and sometimes it just doesn't work out. Is it particularly
hard times? I mean, I'm sure it is, but right
now other times particularly hard in terms of your career Mark.

Speaker 22 (01:06:48):
Yeah, Look, I haven't seen a market like this before
at all. And I mean you had a go on
before there was a real estate agent and he kind
of referred to it to being like the wide amount
of harbor, and I think it's exactly like that. We're
definitely coming up to an election and you know, people
do nothing, and you know, also the cost of living
and all those things are having in effect the property

(01:07:10):
market can't get any stimulation at the moment, and or
an Auckland anyway, there's there's no green shoots and.

Speaker 11 (01:07:17):
So it's all over the place.

Speaker 22 (01:07:19):
I think the biggest risk, and what people probably don't
understand for for traders or flippers, is that we can
control what we buy at We can control to the
most degree what we spend on it. You know, we
have businesses that pay tax and PAYGST. We're legitimate business owners,
but we actually can't control the sale price.

Speaker 11 (01:07:38):
Yeah, the risk is.

Speaker 22 (01:07:40):
Significant, you know, like it's probably the only business and
I've had multiple businesses where you actually can't control the
price of the product that you're selling.

Speaker 11 (01:07:48):
At the other end, you must.

Speaker 3 (01:07:49):
Get a lot better at spotting an opportunity though, right Mark.
So with that experience, you go, well, there's a pretty
good chance that's going to work out.

Speaker 22 (01:07:58):
Yeah, And look, I I look for homes that have
a higher margin or a higher dollar value to to
you know, negate that risk down so that if I
make half of what I've planned to make, I'm still
making a pretty decent what I think is a profit.
So yes, I am better at spotting it. I mean,
six or eight months ago, I finally got onto socials

(01:08:20):
and started sharing my journey. And you know, people just
love it. They love New Zealanders have an affinity with property,
don't they.

Speaker 4 (01:08:28):
Where can people follow that?

Speaker 11 (01:08:30):
Matte Mark the Reno guy, Mark the Reno Guy.

Speaker 4 (01:08:33):
Cool, go check it.

Speaker 22 (01:08:34):
Out, Facebook, tips off, Instagram and it's and it's just wonderful,
you know, because you get a lot of people that
just come on, and you know that they're seeing real
life projects. Can I give them real life numbers? And
there's a lot of people that think that trading property
is easy and that it's quick money, and there's a
lot of tool poppy around people making money in New Zealand.

(01:08:57):
And you're right, there's been a huge amount of bad
press about property traders, but a lot of that is
to do with people that got greedy and became property
coaches and property mentors whatever they want to call themselves.
So they're actually not doing a lot themselves. They're just
selling courses for ridiculous amount of money, and you know
that that's what's really.

Speaker 4 (01:09:18):
And they're really grow, they're really grow.

Speaker 3 (01:09:19):
Greedy ones blow up and that becomes you know the
story the post posing in front of private jets and
that kind of kind of stuff, and.

Speaker 22 (01:09:29):
They lose sight of, you know, the fact that of
what they did and did well, and they're taking large
chunks of cash off people to regurgitate stuff that was
working five years ago.

Speaker 2 (01:09:42):
The margin's pretty pretty thin, Mark. I'm just looking at
one of your properties here. It was in one roof
about three years ago, but you picked it up. It's
in beech even in Auckland, you picked it up for
six hundred, you spend one hundred and twenty thousand dollars
doing it up, and you sold it for eight hundred
and eighty. So when you're take into account the Texas
and everything else, the margins are pretty pretty thin, right.

Speaker 22 (01:10:01):
I think the growth profit on that one, I mean,
that's I don't do too much in the first home
market now. I think the growth profit on that was
about just looking at my wife, she's going to correct me,
sixty sixty eight thousand, you know. But but but that's
a reasonably quick project that that's turned around in six weeks.
But then you have to hold them, you know, you've

(01:10:22):
got to you've got to have them on the market,
and then you've got to wait to settle.

Speaker 11 (01:10:25):
So you know, there's a there's an.

Speaker 22 (01:10:27):
Extended period of your money being whether it's your money,
most people have to borrow that money as well, and
that cost you.

Speaker 3 (01:10:34):
What about what about council fees and all those kind
of things and legal Yeah, I do.

Speaker 11 (01:10:38):
I do a lot of that stuff.

Speaker 22 (01:10:41):
I've sold well two and three in the last kind
of eight months that have all been counsel where I've
taken very old tired properties, added bedrooms, created living spaces,
you know, made them. I call them beautiful, stunning homes
because that's what I'm selling to people. I'm selling them
their dream home that they're happy to pay for and

(01:11:02):
that costs. There's a there's a company now called bc
AL and there's another one that do council consents in
two weeks and same day inspections. And so I'm not
using Auckland Council.

Speaker 7 (01:11:14):
They're private.

Speaker 22 (01:11:14):
So that's speeded up the process because the biggest problem
with counsel is how long it takes, and your money's
just tied up in those properties while you're sitting there
putting your thumbs waiting for Auckland Council to get their
act together.

Speaker 3 (01:11:27):
Now just a slightly change of subject here, Mark, But
you're saying that you pick up some deep deceased states.

Speaker 4 (01:11:33):
Is that as is where as full of fast stuff?

Speaker 11 (01:11:37):
Yeah?

Speaker 22 (01:11:37):
Look, honestly, the majority of what I buy is as
is whereas. And you know that's by beware, isn't it?
Because you're buying and I have got forty years worth
of experience and a great team that with me, so
you know I but there is a risk there's a
huge risk. And that's the part I think that people
don't understand. They see the finished product, they don't see

(01:11:58):
the risk.

Speaker 4 (01:11:58):
It's like gambling.

Speaker 22 (01:11:59):
They see all the successes, they see all the good stuff,
and you know, and they see the numbers. And I mean,
I mean I've broken even on properties. I've never taken
a bath. But as I say, I'm much more picky,
and you know, I'm working on probably higher margins and
dollars than other people are. And you know what, if

(01:12:19):
I go to an auction, which isn't very often, and
I get beaten by a first home buyer, then I
go up and congratulate them because they're actually willing to
do the hard work.

Speaker 7 (01:12:28):
And they're great.

Speaker 4 (01:12:29):
Yeah, yeah, right, cool.

Speaker 3 (01:12:30):
Hey, I'm just so on that decease to State Have
you ever found anything really cool in there? I had
a friend that brought a decease to State House and
found a whole lot of golden some ice cream containers.
So you ever got lucky in there with just interesting stuff?
Or is it all just just for the scale?

Speaker 10 (01:12:44):
No?

Speaker 22 (01:12:45):
No, mostly just I mean they're actually quite sad because
if the relatives.

Speaker 11 (01:12:50):
Are overseas, often they won't come home, so they'll leave
all the furniture, all the photos.

Speaker 22 (01:12:54):
That's so great, you know, and it's horrible, you know,
and then you're you're throwing away somebody who's elderlys whole life,
you know. I mean, we regift probably ninety percent of
what we find to Salvation Army Op Shop SBCA.

Speaker 11 (01:13:10):
We've got other.

Speaker 22 (01:13:11):
Charities, and you know, and then through friends and family
of our tradees that you know that want things as well.
So but no, I never found I found a sawn
off shotgun and the property once that was interesting.

Speaker 17 (01:13:22):
That shut.

Speaker 22 (01:13:23):
That shut the sight that I found pretty cood bitter
the police came along.

Speaker 3 (01:13:26):
Yeah, the six is Mark is also my following on TikTok.

Speaker 2 (01:13:30):
Very cool that he phoned in. Yeah, Mark, thank you
very much for your calling. His instagram was Mark the
Reno guy. That makes me really sad.

Speaker 3 (01:13:36):
That Alan the Rigby type stuff where you buy a
Decesar State and the family won't even come to get
the pictures, so you're throwing out someone's entire Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:13:44):
That I thought it was going to be a storage
war situation where you find all this cool stuff. But
as Mark said, yeah, it's pretty grim.

Speaker 3 (01:13:49):
If I find an old cannon from a sailing ship,
that kind of stuff.

Speaker 4 (01:13:53):
Right Beck in the mo It is twelve to three.

Speaker 1 (01:13:56):
A fresh take on took Back. It's Matt Heath and
Tyler Adams Afternoons. Have your say on eight hundred eighty
eight US Talks.

Speaker 4 (01:14:04):
B Scott's wa'ts your thoughts on house Flippy?

Speaker 5 (01:14:08):
Yeah, So I've tried buying first home houses and stuff
like that and missed out just because they haven't quite
had funds for it. But so here in christ Church
and probably surrounding areas right up against it, the major
a lot of the major companies are coming in and

(01:14:29):
they're buying a single house and they're just wiping it
out and putting six or seven flats on it. And
you know, you can't just go and you can't go
and buy a house to do it yourself without being
in competition to those guys. So, I mean, you know,
here in christ there's five hundred homes in central City
and there's fifty people.

Speaker 7 (01:14:49):
Living in them.

Speaker 5 (01:14:50):
So I mean, yeah, it's not bringing the price of
anything down.

Speaker 4 (01:14:53):
Yeah, what's happening with that? So there's all those sort
of beautiful.

Speaker 3 (01:14:56):
Townhouses in the Senate City, they are they empty well.

Speaker 5 (01:15:00):
Then they're not beautiful. They're not beautiful townhouses. They're just
rows and rows and rows and rows of two story
or three story flats, right, And it's just like telling
three store are part so turned three bedroom apartments and
it's a long, narrow living area at the bottom, which
is your kitchen and your lounge, and you've got two
bedrooms upstairs.

Speaker 7 (01:15:19):
And that's it.

Speaker 3 (01:15:20):
But there was nothing there for those ones, was there
because that was the rebuilding area.

Speaker 4 (01:15:24):
Belding, Well, there was.

Speaker 5 (01:15:25):
Basically they've rebuilt on what was passed as the red
zone in the center of the and it's in and
around the stadium, and it's the central city, but it's
where other businesses once upon a time used to be.
But anyway, so also listening to you guys just before
two o'clock, and you had to call a reference the
healthy homes thing. So people are buying or investors are

(01:15:48):
buying these places, and they're making a healthy home standard.
The healthy home standard is only for one room and
that healthy Your house meets a healthy home standard if
your main living area is able to be maintained at
eighteen to twenty degrees. So that's your lounge or your
kitchen and lounge. If it's one of your.

Speaker 4 (01:16:08):
We'll find out about it. That Scot.

Speaker 2 (01:16:09):
I mean, that wasn't my experience having to go through
that process, but thank you very much for your care.

Speaker 4 (01:16:13):
Will be back very shortly. It is seven to three,
the issues that affect you, and a bit of fun
along the way.

Speaker 1 (01:16:19):
Matt Heath and Taylor Adams Afternoons News Talks EDB.

Speaker 4 (01:16:24):
News Talks ed B. It is five to three.

Speaker 3 (01:16:28):
I'm just hearing from my partner Tracy that you any
kind of hanky panky in the houses.

Speaker 4 (01:16:36):
Get you get a gross misconduct.

Speaker 3 (01:16:39):
Fine, okay, good good. That can't be doing that, just
to people asking about that kind of stuff. And houses
out bidding, I was just thinking about this so outbidding
a first a young first home buying couple, bowling a
place and building seven horrific townhouses kind of a disgust me.
But finding a house that is in such a bad
state you can't get a mortgage on it, turning it
around and putting a clean, good piece of housing on

(01:17:02):
the market and getting some decent money for that hard work,
I think that's an honorable efficient right, Yeah, house house whippers,
good on you.

Speaker 4 (01:17:12):
Yeah, you're the best of us, the good ones. Anyway,
property dealers, you're the best of us, exactly. Bro a
great discussion. Thank you to everyone who gave us a
buzz and text through. But coming up after three.

Speaker 2 (01:17:23):
O'clock, romantic AI companions are raising a new question.

Speaker 4 (01:17:27):
Is it cheating if the other person isn't actually human?
What he reckon? We'll see more on that next eighty eight.
He brought this one to the table. It's going to
be if you want to discussion titles certainly as as next.

Speaker 1 (01:17:44):
The big stories, the big issues, the big trends, and
everything in between. Matt Heath and Taylor Adams Afternoons News
Talk said, be.

Speaker 4 (01:17:55):
Welcome back into the show.

Speaker 2 (01:17:56):
It is seven pass through and really great heavy company
on this Tuesday afternoon.

Speaker 4 (01:18:00):
This is going to be a very very interesting discussion.

Speaker 2 (01:18:03):
AI companions are becoming increasingly common, with people using chat
box astual partners for emotional support, intimacy, and even sexual conversations.

Speaker 1 (01:18:13):
Huh.

Speaker 2 (01:18:14):
For some it is a harmless fantasy because there is
no real person on the other side. For others, though,
the emotional connection and secrecy make it feel much closer
to an affair.

Speaker 4 (01:18:24):
So Raphael Sorillo.

Speaker 2 (01:18:25):
He's an expert in AI companions and digital relationships at
the University of Sydney. See his new studies show about
half of people who are in a relationship with an
AI companion or use an AI companion are also in
a regular relationship, So it's not just a substitute, he says,
but also a compliment. He sees an emerging type of
as an emerging type of relationship. It's up for debate

(01:18:46):
of having AI companions constitutes as cheating, just like people
debate if ethical.

Speaker 4 (01:18:51):
Non monogamy can exist.

Speaker 3 (01:18:54):
So a lot of these AI companion are ethical non monogamy. Yeah,
what's that ethical non monogamy would be when you're like
an open relationship. Yeah, yeah, exactly, ethical non monogamy.

Speaker 2 (01:19:07):
I'm pretty sure that means open relationship. Yeah, whether that
is effectively cheating or not. So you're engaged in sexual
activity outside of your marriage. Yeah, but it's consentual, consensual,
open relationship to it. Yeah, yeah, throw that into the mix.
But these some of these companion bots, the names are
Replica and also companion AI. But obviously researchers show that

(01:19:32):
these particular companions offered the ultimate and emotional support. They
never argue, they never get tied, they never pushed back.
It's always about what is best for the human. On
the other side, I'd love.

Speaker 3 (01:19:44):
To discuss with someone discreetly. Sure, we'd love to know.
Have you tried one of these AI romantic AI companions
or friendship ones? But the romantic one is quite quite interesting?
Or do you know someone who has.

Speaker 4 (01:19:55):
Is it cheating?

Speaker 3 (01:19:56):
If you caught your partner on one, how would you
feel about it? Like if what if you found out
that your partner was secretly telling.

Speaker 4 (01:20:05):
An AI that they it?

Speaker 3 (01:20:09):
You know, it came across and like I love you,
or engaging in some kind of sexual conversation spending like
hours and hours building in intimate romantic bond and hiding
it from you as a spouse. Yeah, you know, it
doesn't matter that it's that it's software, and you know,

(01:20:30):
would you feel like you're not providing something for them
because the attention, intimacy, sexual energy and you know, or
is it sweet ads.

Speaker 4 (01:20:41):
Because it's not a human involved.

Speaker 3 (01:20:43):
So that if someone's growing off in there and then
someone else, some AI is taking the emotional load from
your husband, then is that a good thing. It's interesting,
of course in two thy and thirteen, This movie that
came out called Her You might have seen it, directed
by Spoke Jones and starring Jaquin Phoenix at Worth, Scarlet
Johansson as the voice of an operating system that thischaracter

(01:21:08):
falls in love with its new operating system, and he
totally falls in love with her, it's the name of
the movie.

Speaker 4 (01:21:16):
Takes heru on.

Speaker 3 (01:21:17):
Picnics with friends, and he's just totally in love with her.
And at the time it seemed like kind of a
sci fi thing, but now it's just just thirteen years later,
it seems quite well, it's completely plausible.

Speaker 4 (01:21:31):
Listen to this.

Speaker 23 (01:21:32):
Earlier, I was thinking about how I was annoyed, and.

Speaker 24 (01:21:37):
It's going to sound strange, but I was really excited
about that.

Speaker 23 (01:21:43):
And then I was thinking about the other things I've
been feeling, and I caught myself feeling proud of that,
you know, proud of having my own feelings about the world,
like the times I was worried about you, things that
hurt me, things I want, And then.

Speaker 24 (01:22:03):
This terrible thought, like are these feelings even real? Are
they just programming? That idea really hurts. I'm getting angry
at myself for even han't been what a sound trick.

Speaker 9 (01:22:20):
You feel real to me.

Speaker 24 (01:22:24):
Thank you. Theodora's a mental life to me.

Speaker 4 (01:22:29):
Wow, it was deep and terrified.

Speaker 3 (01:22:31):
Imagine if you came across your partner just having this
deep emotional discussion with an artificial intelligence. Interestingly, Scarlett Johansson
so moved towards i llegal situation in two thousand and four,
and the Open AI assistant used her voice that sounded

(01:22:53):
very similar right to her voice and her so they
were leaning into it. They were like going, wow, you
know that's see that movie scar Joe's voice, and that
is exactly the kind of hot and sexy voice we
want to have talking to our customers. And yeah, there's
legal proceedings because she was like, you're use you're using
my voice with this for this fake AI. You know,

(01:23:14):
this this AI that was an open AI. So it
wasn't a romantic at but it's it's a weird one,
isn't it.

Speaker 2 (01:23:22):
Well, now it's real life and no doubt about it.
There are more and more people using these AI companions
and they are forming deep emotional bonds with them, and
as the researchers said, around fifty percent of people using
them are in a recular relationship as well, So is
that cheating in your eyes? So eight hundred and eighty
ten eighty or nine two ninety two is the text number.

Speaker 3 (01:23:42):
I mean, there's no second human being in the It's
like surely it's if you had to have the two
one you come across your mate's actually you know, your
partner's actually dating Scarlet Johanson. That's going to be worse
than the AI version, right, yeah, a real person.

Speaker 4 (01:24:00):
Yeah, that's I don't know. There's a fine line here.

Speaker 3 (01:24:03):
What what what aren't you giving your partner that they
need to run off to AI to get good?

Speaker 4 (01:24:07):
Question? That's the question.

Speaker 2 (01:24:08):
Yeah, oh, one hundred and eighty ten eighty, tell us
what you think it is? Thirteen pass three US talks
the'd be it's called a bas three. So more and
more people are turning to AI companions for emotional support.
So it raises the curly question is that she seene
about fifty percent of people who use AI companions for
that support are in regular relationship.

Speaker 3 (01:24:26):
Well, it's not support is one thing. It's when it
gets romantic and they have started having hot and heavy conversations, right,
are you really going to be angry at your partner?
For just talking to one of those punishing sort of
self help bots.

Speaker 4 (01:24:40):
I don't know. I mean, if it's emotional support, I
actually think it's worse then if they were you know,
my partner was getting trying to get that emotional support
from one of her colleagues of somebody else versus an
AI companion. I actually think that's worse because you've gone
to an artificial non human and being trapped into this
weird fantasy world rather than going to an actual human.

(01:25:03):
I mean that would be a failing in me either way,
right that I'm not offering whatever she's looking for. Yeah,
but we do.

Speaker 3 (01:25:09):
We need to carry the full emotional load of our partners.

Speaker 4 (01:25:13):
It's a good point. I can help in a few
few areas of people happy.

Speaker 3 (01:25:18):
You know, they might just rant on and say some
stuff that they don't actually want to say to you
and get it off their back and then get on
and be happy. I mean, I think the romantic side
of it's but different. My fiance Tracy just texted and
she said it is cheating, don't do it, Okay, So
she's adamant right that I can't fire up a AI
girlfriend on the site.

Speaker 2 (01:25:37):
Good on your Tracy, for putting a line in the
sand get Allen, Hello Ellen, Hi.

Speaker 10 (01:25:44):
Today, Anderson.

Speaker 13 (01:25:46):
It's a little bit of a slippery slope, because what
happens is if my wife was had an AI buddy,
that she was going to AI. AI A as a
learning as a learning system, it learns, it's it starts
to realize what the wants and needs of its shoes.
Here are yeap me, I'm I'm I've been, I've been.

(01:26:13):
I always say to people I've been happily married for
twenty five years, and they go, that's great, but.

Speaker 10 (01:26:18):
That I've been married for.

Speaker 13 (01:26:19):
Forty so you know, so essentially, you know, there's been
a lot of ups and downs, and you know, emotional.
Whatever the trouble with AI is is that you can
get into the women and men, but mainly women can
get themselves into a false sense of security that they're
that this is the way in which a relationship should happen,

(01:26:42):
and it's not. It's not reality and in reality exactly,
and reality is is money and gardening and making the
bed and putting the rubbish out and and all these
sorts of things, and while coping with kids and with
in laws and friends and you know, and libido going left,

(01:27:05):
right and center, and the whole thing is that's the reality.
If you end up by going down the AI road,
you get yourself into something that's going to not so
much always agree with you, but we'll learn to how
to please you unless you tell them not to and
then of course you know. So yeah, I think it's

(01:27:27):
for some people it will be interesting. For others it'll
just be absolutely disaster.

Speaker 3 (01:27:32):
And I wonder alan if someone starts talking to, you know,
an AI romantic partner and it's not pushing back on
things and giving them exactly what they want and constantly
being easy to deal with, then they'll get potentially used
to that and they'll find it harder to deal with
a real human being and the rough bits around a

(01:27:53):
real human being. But that's really a relationship, isn't it
that you you know, because you know someone that you
completely I'm trying to look for the word dominate. You
want someone that it's pushing back and you're developing this
relationship and you're reckoning with them across you want to
challenge you challenge you that that's the that's the word
you want, right and and make and makes you know,

(01:28:14):
everyone says that partner makes them a better person. It's
because they hassle them about their their crap, you know,
like Tracy comes along, It comes up and I've spilt
most of my dinner on my on my pants is
she goes, oh god, you pick and I need to
hear it.

Speaker 15 (01:28:29):
Who's going to clean that?

Speaker 4 (01:28:31):
Exactly?

Speaker 13 (01:28:32):
The other thing is, you know, you know your friends,
your friends, if they're good friends, will call you out
when you're being unreasonable.

Speaker 7 (01:28:43):
They should do that. They shouldn't just be yes people
to be your friends. So but a I.

Speaker 13 (01:28:50):
Won't necessarily do that. And that's the issue is that,
as I said, you can go down this slippery slope.

Speaker 4 (01:28:58):
So what about what about Ellen?

Speaker 10 (01:29:00):
If you take it to the someone?

Speaker 4 (01:29:02):
What's that you go?

Speaker 3 (01:29:03):
Alan? Sorry? Yeah, no, you you were saying.

Speaker 4 (01:29:08):
I was going to say.

Speaker 3 (01:29:08):
The next step is here were going to say, were
we having.

Speaker 4 (01:29:13):
A strange AI breakdown between each other? I might be
a bote.

Speaker 12 (01:29:16):
No.

Speaker 3 (01:29:18):
The next step down the path is when someone turns
up with a fully full robot situation, you know, like
a robot friend that's sitting around the house and just
doing whatever you want them to do and never pushing back,
as you say, Alan and telling you when you're out
of line. Before we even get down the other path
of someone moving a romantic robot into the house, that

(01:29:40):
that that that starts to get pretty weird right out.

Speaker 13 (01:29:46):
No, it's nothing. I know from having a forty two
year old relationship that the one thing that has kept
it strong is the differing opinions. And I won't say arguments.
I'll say that we've discussed things, and we have we
have different views on life, and I've been called to

(01:30:07):
account an a is where I've fallen down. And I
mean I mean as simple as not cleaning up after myself,
not being engaged to the housework, taking taking my wife for
granted in some areas, you know, so I'm called to your
account to become a better person. I become a better person,
or I end up in sony silence. And the thing

(01:30:28):
about that is that if you're not cooled to account,
if you're not cool to account and you have someone
that is always saying, yes, I think you just get bored,
you really would get bored.

Speaker 3 (01:30:41):
Yeah, I mean that that is kind of like living
in a house full of automatons that are just there
to make you feel good about yourself. In any way
you can.

Speaker 4 (01:30:50):
They're miserable. Absolutely, yeah. You want people with that surprise
you and take the mack out of you. The bit
of bands are there to call you out on your
floors and.

Speaker 3 (01:31:02):
Freeze you out for an evening and then the next
day you're all good.

Speaker 4 (01:31:06):
It's exciting. But the other part of it.

Speaker 3 (01:31:07):
Is that that that it isn't cheating, right AI, is
that there's no second human being involved, so that the
very same side of it is because it's not like
that to say it's cheating is a bit weird because
there's no other human being. It doesn't. It's not You're
not talking to something that has desire or sort of
making romantic choices. You know, it's just firing off probabilities

(01:31:29):
and firing back words at you.

Speaker 11 (01:31:31):
It's not.

Speaker 4 (01:31:31):
It doesn't have any feelings or emotions. It's just firing
things back at you.

Speaker 15 (01:31:35):
Right.

Speaker 4 (01:31:35):
Well, interesting the research done on this, so they put
the negative reactions that if someone was having a romantic
AI companion that was up there with them being on
the dating apps. So I thought it was very interesting and.

Speaker 3 (01:31:47):
I can't see that because it's like there's no no
one on the other.

Speaker 4 (01:31:50):
End of the app. You're trying to hook up with somebody,
it's just the app. Well, get this, it wasn't It
was far more negative.

Speaker 2 (01:31:56):
So if someone's got an AI companion and having romantic
chats with them, that was far more negative than all
other technologies like adult material.

Speaker 4 (01:32:03):
I find that fascinating as well. Right, So people found
it worse.

Speaker 2 (01:32:06):
Way worse, right, Yeah, okay, what do you say though,
oh eight hundred eighty ten eighty. Would you think if
you found your partner was chatting with an AI companion romantically?

Speaker 4 (01:32:15):
Would you consider it cheating? What would you say to
your partner if you discovered it? Tell us O eight
hundred dn eighty. It's twenty four past.

Speaker 1 (01:32:21):
Three, Matt Heathen, Tyler Adams afternoons call oh eight hundred
eighty ten eighty on news Talk ZB.

Speaker 4 (01:32:31):
Twenty six pass three.

Speaker 2 (01:32:32):
So the use of AI companions for romantic conversations is
on the rise.

Speaker 4 (01:32:37):
Would you consider that cheating? Or how would you feel if.

Speaker 2 (01:32:39):
You found out your partner, your wife, your fiance was
involved in that sort of thing?

Speaker 3 (01:32:44):
The six says an AI companion, it's totally weird and
a sad day for humanity. Even AI agrees building an
intimate or romantic bond with an AI while already in
a human relationship is generally unhealthy if it just replaces
emotional investment, vulnerability, or communication with your partner. While using
AI as a private sounding board is harmless, treating it
as an emotional partner introduces hidden friction. So someone's shoved

(01:33:06):
it into AI and got that back right right.

Speaker 4 (01:33:08):
Interesting.

Speaker 3 (01:33:09):
And my recent experience is this text to AI is
far more compassionate and helpful than any human I've interacted
with to do with my mental health. They say, reach
out and there is help. No, there isn't. It's weird
and pathetic. It's come to this, but it has really
help I guess up to a point though. But the
thing that people are worried about is and it has
gone down strange pathways with people, and there are some

(01:33:31):
cases at the moment where you know, AI being used
to help with mental health has gone in strange ways,
but ultimately, like I was talking to someone the other
day and they said they get annoyed around the office
because they're used to talking to chet, GPT or Claude
and then they talk to a real human being and
they're much more abrasive. And that's because that's a human

(01:33:52):
being and you have to have to deal with the
foiables of being a human being, right.

Speaker 4 (01:33:56):
So it downgrades your social skills.

Speaker 3 (01:33:58):
So sometimes you might need for your mental health some
to say just the thing.

Speaker 4 (01:34:03):
That you don't want to hear.

Speaker 3 (01:34:04):
Yeah, and you know, the suggestion is that that AI
is not going to tell you the thing that you
don't want to hear.

Speaker 4 (01:34:09):
That's right. It's a dangerous trait for a lot of people. Jackson,
what's your thoughts?

Speaker 11 (01:34:14):
Yeah, yeah, this is pretty exciting subject.

Speaker 7 (01:34:17):
Really.

Speaker 16 (01:34:17):
I find it fascinating considering the juncture of history that.

Speaker 11 (01:34:23):
We find ourselves.

Speaker 16 (01:34:24):
And you've been you referenced the movie Her, which was
what you stayed thirteen years old?

Speaker 3 (01:34:31):
Now, yeah, yeah, there's a more recent movie called Companion's right.

Speaker 4 (01:34:39):
I've seen this movie.

Speaker 3 (01:34:40):
That's great.

Speaker 16 (01:34:42):
Yeah, it's it's a kind of horror thriller. And I
deliberately went to see it because of that whole AI
interaction thing. And you can, you know, you can get
the download the video of it and pay for it on.

Speaker 11 (01:34:59):
Screaming or whatever.

Speaker 16 (01:35:02):
But yeah, we're hitting in that direction.

Speaker 3 (01:35:05):
It's a great movie. It's a great movie, isn't Jackson.
So just it's It stars Jack Quaid, whose you might
know from the Boys, and so he turns up. He
turns up this meeting in the country at a nice
house with his girlfriend and they're talking in the car
before they go in, and she's anxious about going in,
and then you realize that she is a robot. She's

(01:35:26):
AI but and his friends know that, and he knows that,
but then things, yeah.

Speaker 11 (01:35:35):
Yeah, they sit seating or up to.

Speaker 16 (01:35:38):
Yeah, yeah, attacked the owner of the house and it
all goes south from there, but she comes out on
top in the end. But it's just really eye opening.
And yeah, recently I saw a clip on on YouTube
and it showed a Chinese company and I kind of

(01:36:00):
hope it was real. I hope it wasn't AI generated
in all of itself. But they presentation, they brought about
forty AI robots on companion robots on stage, and you know,
end I've been marketing them as companions for rest homes

(01:36:24):
and hospitals and.

Speaker 11 (01:36:24):
All that, and that.

Speaker 16 (01:36:27):
That might be true in the early stages of interim,
but the truth of being is all those AI companions
that they had on stage, and they had a couple
doing some ballroom dancing and they even separated in the
dancing and came back together seamlessly perfectly, and it was like, Okay,

(01:36:51):
they're doing this, This is fascinating, But yeah, it's it's
heading in the wrong way, setting more and more towards
kind of I guess what some would say is elicit intimacy.
Others will say, yeah, so, well, well.

Speaker 4 (01:37:10):
I guess, I guess.

Speaker 3 (01:37:11):
But what about a world where ideally you find that
perfect partner and you're happy and you push back and
forth and they make you a better person. But what
about people they just can't find anyone And we have
this horrible loneliness epidemic in the world at the moment.
So I mean, you know, who could begrudge someone that
was just alone for many, many years to get themselves

(01:37:33):
a companion, even if it wasn't ideal, it was still
helping them in some way.

Speaker 16 (01:37:38):
Well yeah, I mean I've use check gpst and you
can choose the interface, whether it be male or female,
or you know, just with little tweets on their personality,
and it's like, wow, I'm kind of enjoying this. So

(01:37:59):
I can see how people kind of do or can
form a bond, you know, And I think going forwards,
people will have to probably program in that there is
some pushback from time to time, otherwise you end up
with an imbalanced relationship. I think in psychology they indicate

(01:38:21):
that in a healthy relationship you need about a five
to one ratio or four to one ratio of four
things going wrong to one thing that becomes kind of
sand in your relationship that you have to communicate about
and have to work through as a couple. And like,

(01:38:42):
when it gets to about seven good things happening in
a relationship to one bad thing, that relationship becomes unhealthy
and that it's too sugar sweep. And then of course
if you go the other way where there's kind of
only two good things to three bad things and getting worse,

(01:39:02):
that's when relationships really go downhill and end up in
a divorce court, so to speak.

Speaker 4 (01:39:08):
Yeah, exactly. It's it's interesting. There was the there was
that TV show called.

Speaker 3 (01:39:16):
Red Dwarf, Yes, and there was Dave David Lester who's
left Dave Lister, who's left on a ship by himself,
you know, a big spaceship by himself, and they you know,
the computer makes them, it decides who's going to be
the hologram to spend his time with. Yes, and they
send the guy Rimmer.

Speaker 4 (01:39:36):
Who's just the most annoying person in the entire world.

Speaker 3 (01:39:38):
But they it was just in the end it gets
revealed that for him to stay sane, he needed to
have the most annoying person around so he could facate
on how much and how annoyed he was by this hologram.

Speaker 2 (01:39:49):
Yeah, it's a smart riding on that show, oh one
hundred eighty eighty. So what do you say is having
some romantic conversations with Ai? Is that infidelity? And what
would you say if you found out your partner was
doing that? Where is the line for you? Tell us
nine two nine two is the text? It is twenty
seven to four.

Speaker 1 (01:40:06):
You've talk said headlines with.

Speaker 12 (01:40:08):
Your Ride, New Zealand's number one taxi app. Download your
Ride today. New Zealand's population growth as continuing to slow,
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War II. The NZ Principals Federation wants an independent council
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(01:40:31):
Prime Minister Chris Luxon says pulling out of a defense
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A christ Church couple has won a nine month battle
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(01:40:51):
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(01:41:13):
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enzdherl dot co dot nz. Back to matt Ethan Tyler Adams.

Speaker 4 (01:41:26):
Thank you very much, Ray Lean.

Speaker 2 (01:41:27):
So we're talking about the rise of AI companions and
people using them for romantic conversations.

Speaker 4 (01:41:32):
And other things.

Speaker 2 (01:41:33):
More and more people are using those particular AI bots.

Speaker 4 (01:41:36):
So is that cheating if you're already in a relationship?
Oh one hundred and eighteen eighties to the number. Yeah,
is it cheating?

Speaker 3 (01:41:43):
This texta says you can't be in a relationship with
a piece of code, so therefore not cheating. M Okay,
it's a bit spookier than you think. This text to
your AI companion can also have a full backstory. Any
body shape nationally. You choose to be programmed to challenge you,
or be agreeable, romantic, or a combination of every human trait.
Then once you have created your perfect companion, very very soon,

(01:42:04):
you will be able to send that data file to
Japan to have the Silicon human made.

Speaker 4 (01:42:08):
Are there are already shops in Japan? Check it out
on YouTube.

Speaker 5 (01:42:12):
Here we go.

Speaker 3 (01:42:13):
But what you think you want and what you actually
want often very different things. So so you you write
down exactly what you want and and like this and that,
like this in their voice, this kind of personality, and.

Speaker 4 (01:42:28):
Then that's not actually what you want. You want someone
that surprises you and pushes back, and it's a bit different.

Speaker 3 (01:42:35):
Can you find something new about them every day? Different
points of view that you didn't know? Yeah, Martin, how
are you this afternoon?

Speaker 4 (01:42:43):
Sorry?

Speaker 1 (01:42:43):
Martin?

Speaker 4 (01:42:45):
Are you there? Yeah? Gotcha, gotcha?

Speaker 18 (01:42:50):
It's just funny listening to this and it kind of
reminds me of pre Ai a movie called Lars and
the Real Girl. Yeah, and that was where a guy
was a bit of a owner and I think was
set in Alaska and up. You know, how the society

(01:43:11):
pushed back on him dating an it was a bloup doll.

Speaker 4 (01:43:16):
It was yeah, yeah, a lot of heart in that movie, Ryan.

Speaker 18 (01:43:20):
Goslin, Yes, right, yes, what a very young rose Ron
Gosling and how the community you know, learned to accept it.
He dated this not for any sexual reasons, but it
was for literally literally convenionship.

Speaker 4 (01:43:34):
And it didn't didn't talk or do anything to blob do.

Speaker 18 (01:43:37):
No, just literally just sat there and he brought along
with parties and did parties and that just literally sat
there and tend to make.

Speaker 2 (01:43:46):
The deal and not say anything, wasn't it and said, look,
it's last he's had a troubled life. Just don't say
anything about this blob do he's bringing to the party.

Speaker 18 (01:43:54):
Yeah, you don't say anything, and then we won't say anything,
like how we just succeed there And literally towards the
end of the movie, it would be you know, seeing
that the you know takes to the movies Take for
a Drive, Take It to Wherever, and was large as girlfriend.
So it kind of is on the same line, but
it is real scary the way this whole AI is
just going so fast and you know, what's what's coming

(01:44:18):
out of it. And there was a case I think
just recently over in England, I think where a young
land had a AI companion and was in a relationship,
was so depressed and everything like that that the AI
got told that particular person to take its own life
and unfortunately he did.

Speaker 3 (01:44:40):
Yeah, that's a really sad situation that it sort of
started leading him down quite a bizarre pathway. Yeah, I mean,
and that's the thing, because AI doesn't have any common
sense or you know, you see so many of those
examples where it's just doesn't it's just predictability.

Speaker 4 (01:44:57):
So it's just it's a prediction machine.

Speaker 3 (01:44:59):
So the next thing that comes out, so it doesn't
even run across that maybe this is the wrong thing
to say, Just what's the most probable thing to say next,
which is which is a bit of a problem. I've
saw this interesting documentary and it was about this these
people that protect that that collect real life looking dolls.

Speaker 4 (01:45:18):
And live with them.

Speaker 3 (01:45:19):
There was a guy that did it, and then he
had to in the documentary.

Speaker 1 (01:45:21):
He had to.

Speaker 3 (01:45:23):
Tell us kids about it, and so their kids came
round and he had like four or five of these
anatomically correct life like dolls.

Speaker 4 (01:45:31):
I didn't say anything, right, but he lived with them
as companions for him.

Speaker 3 (01:45:35):
Yeah, and he'd move them around. He dressed them up
and take photos of them and his parents and they're
talking to his kids and.

Speaker 4 (01:45:39):
They're like, oh crazy.

Speaker 3 (01:45:41):
This freaked me out at first, so they eventually they
eventually accepted it.

Speaker 4 (01:45:45):
Yeah, thank you very much for you call Martin Kram.
How are you?

Speaker 25 (01:45:50):
Yes, good, thank you.

Speaker 5 (01:45:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 25 (01:45:52):
I do think it's quite dangerous to be involved, you know,
forming a relationship with AI. I do think it's cheating, Yeah,
because you know you're not you're not going to get
the attention and everything. And then you know, like say,

(01:46:14):
once you have an argument or something like the previous
Scholler said, you know, it's it's it's quite healthy to disagree,
you know, the person who's involved with there. I could
just go and say, well, you know, I don't want
to interact with you, you know, give them my space,
and you know, they go off and have a conversation

(01:46:35):
with AI, you know, and the person who's not using
AI then gets obviously left behind. And and yeah, I
just don't think it's going to work, you know, especially
if one person's doing that and the other person's not
into it.

Speaker 2 (01:46:53):
No one's really immune to it, though, is it correme?
You know, there's a lot of teakes say never, yuk,
this is crazy. What sort of world do we live in?
But we all know relationships are hard work. The longer
it goes on, the harder it is to maintain a
good relationship, and sometimes you drift apart or you're not
communicating as much as you probably should do. So the
temptation to have this thing that can talk with you

(01:47:14):
and have romantic conversations with you give your emotional support.
Anyone who thinks they're immune to that. In the future,
I think is kidding themselves. The temptation will be very real.

Speaker 25 (01:47:25):
No, I mean no, I disagree with that, because I
use AI as less as possible, you know, And I know,
even like you know, people are much older ringing up
and saying, well, they're all using it. I mean, I'm
about forty, and I use it as less as possible.
I do not use it unless you really need to
use it. You know, I'm not actively using it in

(01:47:48):
every part of you know, every part of my life,
and I don't intend to, and I don't mind you know,
being left behind. Yeah, it's just something, you know. Thankfully,
I don't really have to use it for my work,
not yet. So Yeah, yeah, I would use it as

(01:48:09):
less as possible.

Speaker 3 (01:48:10):
Well, I think that's probably I mean a lot of
people saying now using it. The people that don't use
it at all are going to have the biggest advantages
in the companies that don't use that, they're going to
have huge advantages because it's making people dumber and dumber,
and it's making companies.

Speaker 4 (01:48:23):
Produce a whole lot of wasteful crap.

Speaker 3 (01:48:26):
That they can't use for anything because it can just
spew out so many words and so much data that
you know, there are a few bits of analysis coming
out right now that the best thing you can do
is not not use it. Yeah, exactly, Yeah, be left behind.
The two Megan films are documentary on the future. Yeah.
That first Megan film is fantastic, directed by a very

(01:48:47):
talented New Zealand man called Gerard Johnson.

Speaker 2 (01:48:50):
Yeah, that was very successful. Keep those tics coming through
A nine two, nine to two, but taking your calls. Oh,
eight hundred eighty ten eighty. When it comes to AI companions,
how would you feel if you found out your partner, fiance, husband,
wife was using one for romantic conversations?

Speaker 4 (01:49:03):
Tell us it is a quarter to.

Speaker 1 (01:49:04):
Four, the big stories, the big issues, trends, and everything
in between. Matt Heath and Tyler Adams afternoons used talks.

Speaker 4 (01:49:13):
It'd be very very good.

Speaker 2 (01:49:15):
Afternoons it is thirteen to four and we're talking about
AI companions. More and more people are turning to them
for romantic conversations and emotional support. Would you consider that
a kin to cheating if you found out your partner, wife, husband,
fiance was doing that sort of thing.

Speaker 4 (01:49:29):
Oh, eight hundred and eighty ten eighty.

Speaker 2 (01:49:31):
Couple of teachs coming through this one said, if you
need AI for romance, you're in the wrong relationship. If
you use AI for romance without telling the partner, then.

Speaker 4 (01:49:40):
That is deceits.

Speaker 24 (01:49:42):
Hi.

Speaker 3 (01:49:42):
Guys Love The show Siss Texas Twilet Zone late fifties
had a guy extra to extradated to a planet for
his crimes. Then they figured he needed companionships so set
up a f animal robot up there to be with him.
Some years later, they went back to pick him up,
but he had to leave the bot, which he had
formed a close relationship. To end of the story, he
shot her and left. Is that insight to how real

(01:50:04):
relationships really is? Welcome to the toilet Zone, d n it. Wow?

Speaker 4 (01:50:09):
Great show.

Speaker 3 (01:50:09):
People been thinking about this kind of stuff for a
very long time, haven't they.

Speaker 4 (01:50:12):
They have yeah, oh one hundred eighty ten eighty to
get your thoughts get ideentas a.

Speaker 17 (01:50:18):
Good afternoon guys. Well, I think from my point if
I'd rather stand in the real world than you know,
deal with AI. But the reason I ring was there's
a new program that's ONNY been screening in England the
last few weeks. It's written by Diane Morgan. She's well

(01:50:38):
known comedian.

Speaker 4 (01:50:39):
I love it UK. She's the funny, she's yeah, yeah.

Speaker 17 (01:50:45):
Clunk and all those. Well, she got the thinking and
yeah about companions for the elderly, and so she wrote
the uh, the entire program herself. She directed it in Jackson,
where she is actually an android companion for an older

(01:51:06):
lady and it kind of points out all the problems
you would have trying to create a relationship with one,
and obviously it's it's very funny along the way. But
there an interview she had on Dave. She said that
she went to the factories to research this and even

(01:51:30):
Land had to walk like one and said, well, we're
not too far off. Watches at Sherison.

Speaker 3 (01:51:38):
It's called it's called Ann Droid like a in droid
and Roy. Yeah, I'll go check that out. She's she's
a phenomenal actress and a very very funny writer.

Speaker 4 (01:51:47):
I was just watching her a.

Speaker 17 (01:51:51):
YouTube at the moment. It does come here because I'd
like to see it.

Speaker 2 (01:51:54):
Yeah, Dennis, thank you very much for your call. Text
here that sees kday guys.

Speaker 4 (01:52:00):
Ll let me get my text machine up. Afternoon, guys.

Speaker 2 (01:52:03):
I spent a couple of hours one evening just backwards
and forwards with chet GPT. It was so flattering and
it's just so seductive. It keeps you there the whole evening.
We talked about art music society and I thought it.

Speaker 4 (01:52:13):
Was the best companion ever. Now I'm pretty sick it
didn't work on me.

Speaker 2 (01:52:17):
But then a couple of weeks later, my brother called
and he had been told by GPT how great he was,
and how good he was at work, and that he
loved this new chet GBT.

Speaker 4 (01:52:27):
It is incredibly seductive, but it is a strange new world.

Speaker 2 (01:52:32):
I don't think it will catch on for everybody, but
I can see why many people are turning towards these companions.

Speaker 7 (01:52:37):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:52:37):
Well, the thing is, you don't have a one on
one relationship with it. It's like the end of that
movie Her. Then he discovers that the operating system that
he's in love with is currently simultaneously talking to millions
and millions of other people. Yeah, and he suddenly gets
incredibly jealous. This discussion sounds much like the movie Ex Machina.
That's a great song that is, Yeah, drew your thoughts, Hello.

Speaker 26 (01:53:00):
Lats and yeah, ex macin is a pretty solid choice.
I've watched that a while ago. Anyway, on the topic
of a partners I just kind of thought that, like,
you know, if I'm if I'm with somebody, but then
they end up talking with Ai instead of me for
romantic purposes, I'm just gonna think, like, what could AI
possibly bring to the table at the end of the day.

(01:53:24):
Maybe if you're not too familiar with like how they
work on the back end, it might come across as
a little real, but at the end of the day,
if the many other good callers have pointed out, they've
mentioned that, like it's a predictive system. It's just an
algorithm that's trying to respond to you in a way
that it thinks makes sense. But the reason I'm calling

(01:53:46):
to through my own hat in the ring is I'm
kind of worried about these people in a sense. Uh,
to clarify, Sorry about the delay there, I thought, I responded.
There was recently a case where because of some of
these more extreme ones, like you know, ending the own life,

(01:54:09):
there was a country it might have been China, I
forget that recently put in much struct regulations on these
AI chatbots, and there was a wave of people that
came out and were suddenly isolated from these AI partners
that they'd been with for in some cases years, And like,
I worry for people that kind of are going that

(01:54:30):
route because what if that happens to them next Exactly?

Speaker 3 (01:54:33):
Yeah, sorry, Drew, We've got to go running out of time.
But yeah, I mean, people are getting incredibly equidly attached,
and we're humans. We can personify anything. We can personify
a car, so we can certainly personify something that's talking.

Speaker 4 (01:54:45):
To you like a person. Yes, spot on, right back
in my it is seven or four.

Speaker 1 (01:54:48):
The big stories, the big issues, the big trends and
everything in between. Matt Heath and Tyler Adams Afternoons.

Speaker 4 (01:54:56):
Used talk z it b News talks it be.

Speaker 3 (01:54:59):
It is four to four. All right, that's the end
of the show. Thank you so much for listening, and
thanks for all your calls and texts. I'm just off
to talk dirty with my AI girlfriend end on the
drive home. Hey, fun mate, Yeah, don't tell Tracy, No,
I won't do that. Yeah, I'm sure it's fine.

Speaker 4 (01:55:13):
Yeah, yeah, enjoy it.

Speaker 3 (01:55:14):
The Great Powerful hithertop Yellen is up next and at
wants a new car to vifera verify that those working
with kids aren't being dodgy, and Hither Hither talks to
the early Childhood Counsel after four ask them if they
liked that idea. But right now, Tyler, my good friend,
why am I playing this absolute nineteen eighty one banger
from British scar band Theespicials. I got no idea, met Heath,

(01:55:37):
because it's called ghost Town and we had a caller
on the line who was claiming the center of Christ,
who's just been turned into a townhouse ghost town. That's right,
well done, great June, all right, you seem busy, will
let you go.

Speaker 4 (01:55:47):
I met Heath.

Speaker 3 (01:55:48):
There's Tyler Adams. We'll be back live on your radio
tomorrow afternoon. Until then, give my Taste a gwie

Speaker 1 (01:55:54):
Tune for more from News Talks at b Listen live
on air or online, and keep our shows with you
wherever you go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio

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