Full Show Podcast: 29 April 2026

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
You're listening to a podcast from news Talk, said b
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Speaker 2 (00:18):
The big stories, the leak issues, the big trends, and
everything in between.

Speaker 1 (00:23):
Matt Heath and Taylor Adams Afternoons News Talk.

Speaker 3 (00:27):
Said, be very good afternoon, Jeer, welcome into Wednsday show.
Great today. Have you're with us? Hope you're having a
great afternoon. How you doing, Matt A very good Thanks,
super quick before we get into the show. What I
think is one of the most embarrassing things to happen
to a man happened to me this morning. Oh no,
you reckon?

Speaker 4 (00:44):
You know, well, there's some advertisings on the station that
can help with that.

Speaker 3 (00:50):
I'm more of a nightgoy anyway, mate when it comes
to that realm. So, it wasn't that this morning, not
quite as bad as that. But thank you for bringing
that up.

Speaker 4 (00:56):
Okay, put intended it wasn't an ignite issue.

Speaker 3 (00:59):
No, it wasn't an ignited juke.

Speaker 5 (01:00):
No.

Speaker 3 (01:01):
So, as I was walking from the car park down
the street to the coffee shop where we have a
bit of a coffee before the show, and I get
in the all very happy and then one of the
staff is just looks at me and said, good morning,
good morning, because we go down there a little bit,
and then she just looks at my chest and said,
you've got a couple of buttons undone. And I looked
down and there was a couple of buttons that had

(01:21):
popped on this on the shirt that I've got, And
so of course I was like, oh my good god,
and did that up? But I was kind of like,
you know, my shirt was Billoween like David Hasselhoff, just
without any of the abs involved.

Speaker 4 (01:32):
Is that all right? So is that because you have
been pumping a lot of tin and you're getting huge
around the pecks or is it because you've been smashing
a lot of beers and the pressure on the buttons
is more around the belly.

Speaker 3 (01:48):
We both know the answer to that, mate, We both
know the answer there, and it's not number one. And
I just think maybe part of it is that, you know,
I've been putting the shirt through the drive, so maybe
a trunk a little bit. But I just think and
thank god they said something, because if you had arrived
and I had that going on, I never would have
heard the end of it. Even though I'm bringing it
up right now. But I just think pop in a

(02:09):
button is a fowler. You got to You've got to
tell guys out there if they've got a button loosen
they popped it, just quietly say hey mate, you popp
the button.

Speaker 4 (02:16):
I think it's more embarrassing when you've done up your
shirt and the buttons don't aligne. You know you have
got the lining of your buttons up.

Speaker 3 (02:23):
Yeah, Yeah, that's a doozy.

Speaker 4 (02:25):
That is a doozy because that suggests you've had a
big night and the alarm's gone off and you've just
quickly put a shirt on and run out the door.

Speaker 3 (02:31):
Yep, you've got some history there.

Speaker 4 (02:33):
Yeah, it says more. Yeah, it says more when your
buttons don't aligne up.

Speaker 3 (02:37):
But thank you to that particular worker who called that
out for me. Thank you very much. Right on to
today's show after three o'clock. Should you stay together for
the kids? An article in The Herald does explain that
while many parents consider staying in an unhappy relationship to
protect their children, some research suggests that many, even though
they consider it, ultimately, if they can't work it through,

(03:00):
decide that there's no other way but to separate. But
for a large proportion they do, despite differences with their partner,
husband wife, decide to try and keep it rolling, keep
it together solely for the kids.

Speaker 4 (03:12):
Well, you have to do a sober analysis of what's
best for the kids.

Speaker 6 (03:15):
Right.

Speaker 4 (03:16):
So if it's best for the kids to use to
suck it up and stay together, then that's what you've
got to do, because you've brought the kids into the world, right.
But if things are so so nasty that it's worse
for the kids that you say to together, then you've
got to break up.

Speaker 7 (03:31):
Right.

Speaker 4 (03:31):
Yeah, that's my analysis on it.

Speaker 3 (03:33):
It's going to be an interesting chat, right that is
after three o'clock. After two o'clock. So AI and photoshopping
when it comes to real estate images. So a story
about the number of real estate listenings now using digitally
enhanced things like grass and weather to make properties look
better than they actually are. So for a long time,

(03:53):
I think many of them have used photoshop to a
certain degree, But now that AI is becoming a lot
more common, you were seeing things that don't actually exist
at the property come to fruition, like a beautiful lawn
if that lawn may or may not exist.

Speaker 4 (04:09):
Yeah, and I mean they've been doctoring the photos for
a long time, just the use of camera lens. Right,
So you take a picture of the fishy lens and
it looks like the lounge is huge, and there's a
massive gap between the couch and the TV in the
lounge in the three story townhouse, and when you get
in there, your knees are basically touching the other wall.

Speaker 8 (04:30):
Right.

Speaker 3 (04:30):
Yeah, yeah, that's common, very common.

Speaker 4 (04:32):
I don't think there's anything wrong with making a nice
day because that's not the real estate agent's fault when
they happen to turn up to take the picture. Right,
they shouldn't have to wait till blue skies to take
the picture. Yeah, but if you're adding a lick of
paint that's not there, or you're adding a beautifully manicured
lawn that's not there, that's probably going too far.

Speaker 8 (04:52):
What I don't.

Speaker 4 (04:52):
Understand about this, and maybe real estate agents will be
able to tell me. But you see the picture, then
you go to the house.

Speaker 3 (04:59):
Yeah, you've got to get rumbled in some stage. You're
going to get rumbled for your trickery.

Speaker 4 (05:03):
So when you go to the house, you go, well,
this is not a giant lounge and that fridge is
in triangular shaped to make it look like a large lounge.

Speaker 3 (05:13):
Yeah, exactly, But taking your calls on that after two o'clock,
looking forward to that, because right now, let's have a
chat about trades versus university. So the New Zealand Institute,
which is a think tank, wants to put trades on
the same pedestal or above university university degree, same status,
same respect and the same outcome. So the thinking they
say is that if we stop treating degrees as better,

(05:35):
there more young people might choose apprenticeships and feel critical
skill shortages that we have in this country. So part
of that would be a proposal to replace NCEEA exams
with a qualification system that includes trade related skills. But
the question I put it, we want to put to you,
is that really true? Is there still a perception out
there that university degrees somehow hold better status than going

(05:59):
into a trade.

Speaker 4 (06:00):
It's an interesting one, isn't it. Because they point out
that schools are sort of designed to funnel you academically
towards that kind of tertiary tertiary education, right, and they
argue for the first ten years of school, then that
makes sense because you're teaching people those basics, right, but
they argue from year eleven there should be that that

(06:21):
funnel should be funneling into the trades as much as
it is funneling into university. That balance equal balance, especially
now that we know that a lot of university degrees
don't lead you anywhere good but a whole lot of debt.
Like my university degree, it doesn't help me at all.
It's not a single day my university degree helps me.
But school was funneled towards that way absolutely.

Speaker 7 (06:45):
So.

Speaker 4 (06:46):
I don't know because becoming a and if you just
think about it culturally, how people view the trades versus
a university degree. If someone has become a fully qu
qualified plumber and someone's farted out a B comm at university,
I don't think are people seeing the becomm is more
superior to I'm just trying perception here. I don't think

(07:11):
a parent would go, oh, my kid's got a BECOM
that's better than my kid's got a a you know,
has completed their apprenticeship.

Speaker 3 (07:18):
Which as a parent, I wouldn't speak. You would because
if you go down the plumber routes and you're earning
money ahead of your peers, who go to university for
a becom but perhaps there are certain elements of society
that might look down on some of those trades.

Speaker 4 (07:34):
Not Germany or Switzerland. The study claims that those countries
value trade qualifications extremely highly. But this report even suggests
funneling and taking red redirecting, so we'd see, I've got
a university degree and I can't even speak, but redirecting

(07:54):
some university funding to supporting schools offering industry led subjects.

Speaker 3 (07:59):
Now we're talking. Now we're talking. It's taking a little
bit of money off.

Speaker 4 (08:02):
Them, off the snooty universities. But yeah, I mean even
a BA likes So I've got a BA full disclosure
and anthropology right with a lot of philosophy in there.

Speaker 3 (08:13):
Do humanities get? You know, they get a bit of
stick to humanities. But I think there's a you know,
there's a lot of anthropology, human history.

Speaker 4 (08:21):
Mate, I could have done that just by reading some
books on my own time. Well, I was getting a
decent trade, right.

Speaker 3 (08:26):
Yeah, But what do you say, I eatee hundred and
eighty ten eighties. So when it comes to the status
of a proficion vocation, do you think it still exists
out there? That people look more favorably on academia over trades.
I want one hundred and eighteen eighties at.

Speaker 4 (08:39):
Number, Nick Sais on nine two nine two. I started
working from uncle in the trades during UNI holidays, never
went back to my studies. That was almost twenty four
years ago.

Speaker 3 (08:48):
Now, cheers Lands, good text, Keep them coming through nine
two nine two. It's quarter past one.

Speaker 2 (08:52):
The big stories, the big issues, the big trends and
everything in between.

Speaker 1 (08:57):
Matt Heathen, Tyler Adams afternoons Hu's talks.

Speaker 3 (09:00):
That'd be seventeen past one. So do you think there
is still a perception out there that trades and going
into an apprenticeship is less than going into university for
a degree. It's an argument the New Zealand Institute has
made and they want to write that. But what do
you say, I one hundred and eighty ten eighties number
to call John Welcome to the shay.

Speaker 7 (09:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 9 (09:21):
Yeah, I mean I think it's a pretty hard cell
trying to convince someone that four years of actually doing
a job and getting paid for it and learning, you know,
the realities on the go versus sitting in a classroom
before years talking about a job. I mean I would
have thought that trades should be elevated to a greater
position because neither of the day, the chances are AI
replacing a plumber would be pretty remote, I would imagine.

Speaker 3 (09:44):
Yeah, yeah, I'm just thinking that John Is. My daddy
was a spark and he always said to us boys
and said, I don't want you boys to go into
the trade because it's hard yacker and I've hated it,
and I want you to use your brains. But looking
back on that advice, now it's kind of the flip, right, Well.

Speaker 10 (09:59):
I mean it's interesting.

Speaker 9 (10:01):
You know, education acknowledges that everyone learns in a different style, right,
and here's a different application. There are some people who
are purely practical and are not really academic in terms
of the you know, the straight kind of definitions. So
we should recognize that that that there are people who
are going to be outstanding builders, outstanding you know, climber
is outstanding, brick layers, whatever it is, you know, versus

(10:23):
people who are more academic than inclined. I mean, one
is not better or worse than the others. It's just
the personality and the skill set that you have. And
so I think there's a snobbery around degrees. Can you
look at the job the job adverts, right, and the
minimum requirement for a lot of jobs now is you know,
as a degree and a whole bunch of experience. And

(10:43):
it's like, well, I'm not sure that's beneficial. So, I mean,
you want people who can actually do stuff, right, that's
the thing you want people an employee, when someone who
can actually do something.

Speaker 4 (10:53):
Yeah, there's stuff that needs to be done, and there's
a lot of degrees that don't really do much stuff
that needs to be done. There's the degrees that you
can get where there's a lot of thinking involved and
a lot of discussion, but stuff doesn't actually get done.
So this this idea would be that around a year
eleven you start funneling people in that in that either

(11:15):
that direction towards towards the trades or that direction towards academia.
It seems to make absolute sense to me, rather than
trying to funnel everyone into tertiary right through to year thirteen.

Speaker 9 (11:28):
Well, I think there's also a perception that people who
are doing trades some somehow are not using their academic skills,
which is yeah, I mean, I mean, if you're a builder,
you've got to have some pretty you know, some pretty
refined mathematic skills and geometry and you know the rest
of it as you do for a number of well,
number of.

Speaker 4 (11:46):
The smartest people did ever meet are electricians. That might
be controversial in the trades to say that very controversial.
Every electrician I've ever met is smarter than me.

Speaker 9 (11:56):
But if they're alive, they're got to be pretty smart.

Speaker 4 (11:58):
They never clean up after themselves, though, do they. They
just yeah, they actually think they're better than the Actually,
speaking of culture, electricians think they're better than ever.

Speaker 9 (12:10):
But I think the thing that we're missing, the thing
we're missing the conversation, I think is not actually about
what you learn at university. It's it's about learning to learn,
and it's about you know, being able to be to
be able to think strategically and to learn creatively. And
I think that's so we talk about becom's, we talk
about various degrees and that, and there's nothing wrong with that,
of course. I mean, we've got a daughter who's doing

(12:31):
a degree at the moment. But the issue should be
the ability to learn, how to learn and to be flexible,
and that, for me is the critical skill that you
learn as a trade, You learn how to get around problems.
You learn that that what the manual says ain't necessarily
so in practicalities.

Speaker 11 (12:46):
And I think.

Speaker 9 (12:47):
That's University degrees are good, but you've got to have
that practical application of learning.

Speaker 4 (12:53):
I think the cent amount of self indulgence in some degrees,
I know that mine was. I was just interested in
philosophy and anthropology, primarily because I was a big fan
of Indiana Jones with the anthropology and wanted to do archaeology.
But I didn't do that. There was no point was
I thinking about a job at the end of it.
I was just, you know, I can get a student loan,
so I'll just miss around for a while. And then
I got out of universe and he thought, that's great.
Now I've got this massive gent loan and this gaining

(13:15):
it never because you because I went to the university
when I was eighteen, So you're not really making great
decisions at their point, right, big fires a lot that, yeah, yeah,
But when you talk about the practical side of it,
I mean, if you're going to become a medical doctor,
you do what four years of you know, pre clinical
and and then you get into the clinical rotations don't
you get you get put into hospital. So you know,

(13:35):
to actually become a doctor, you have to do this similar,
similar thing of actually on on job training. Yeah, because
that's a real job, being a doctor, right job.

Speaker 9 (13:47):
Yeah, absolutely, you don't be able pretending at that job.

Speaker 4 (13:50):
So yeah, you know, you know on someone that's never
actually you know, fixed a broken leg before they broke
fix a broken leg, you know.

Speaker 3 (13:59):
Yeah, yeah, but it's an interesting point you mentioned.

Speaker 4 (14:01):
You just did it for the first time.

Speaker 3 (14:02):
Every time, you know, those those young people out there
that have a very good brain on them and do
very well academically, and then they get pushed into university
because that's you know, where they told their skill set lies.
But I agree that that if you get someone like
that who's also very practical but got a good brain,
they move through the hierarchy of the trades in rapid
time and in very very good money. A couple of

(14:24):
my friends are in that position. So I think, you know,
if you've got a good brain as a kid and
you want to get into the trades, that they say, no,
you've got too good of a brain. You've got to
get a university. It's nonsense.

Speaker 9 (14:33):
Yeah, well it is nonsense, because you look at the
management side of things. I mean I work as a
leadership consultant and help develop leaders and you need outstanding
leaders who've got strategic thinking, they've got visual viewpoints of
creatives in every organization, not just not just the kind
of medical. In fact, you could almost argue that some

(14:54):
of the leadership in some of the higher sort of
academic trades are and jobs are in serious trouble actually,
but you know there are there is a lot of
very practical, pragmatic sort of learning I think in the
trades again, because it's problem solving, it's it's people management.
I mean, you know, you've got to learn how to
communicate and deal with people. Yeah, so I think we

(15:15):
should elevate, absolutely elevate and give people options and stop
telling you know, young fellers fronts and so they get
you know, they're going to end up on the tools
and the life will be useless, you know, I mean,
it's just crazy talk.

Speaker 4 (15:25):
Yeah, absolutely, thank you for your call, John. I think
there's an interesting thing that happened in New Zealand. At
one point we decided we were going to become a
knowledge economy. So there's this all this talk for a
long time that we need to get as many of
our young people through university. And that was the big posh.
There's many, many people because not a lot of people
used to go to university, and then more people started going.
Then that's when they started student loans and stuff because

(15:46):
it was too expensive for all the people new university.
And I thought, other world's going to be MW. Zealand's
going to be amazing if we have this knowledge economy.
And so we tried to get this knowledge economy. And
then we thought, what we'll do is we'll just offload
all our manufacturing overseas. We have no manufacturing, and we're
all going to be a knowledge economy. But that's not
really how it's panning out. And now you've got the
interesting situation with AI coming in where the knowledge economies

(16:07):
under attack and meanwhile we've got rid of all our manufacturing.

Speaker 3 (16:10):
Yeah, oh, one hundred and eighty ten eighty is that
number to call? Nine two ninety two is the text
that is twenty five past one.

Speaker 2 (16:17):
The headlines and the hard questions. It's the Mic Hosking breakfast.

Speaker 4 (16:22):
So the loans is rainy day fuel deal.

Speaker 12 (16:23):
As a result of the Homoo's drama involves zed energy
in ninety million liters of diesel. That's nine days supplies
z will own in store at the government will control
it's release. The Associate Minister for Energy, Shane Jones back
with us.

Speaker 13 (16:33):
Well, obviously we've got experts securing us options not only
now but into the future.

Speaker 10 (16:38):
But it's crewdit space.

Speaker 13 (16:39):
I mean, for example, the Europeans are now scouring everywhere
looking for aviation fuel. Teach stock problems continue to afflic
Southeast Asia, but it's been a while since the government
worked directly with anyone into the market to secure a buffer.

Speaker 12 (16:53):
Back Tomorrow at six am the Mic Hosking Breakfast with
Rain Drivers Sport sv News Talk ZB.

Speaker 3 (16:59):
Very good afternoon to you. So we are talking about
a report from the New Zealand Institute that wants to
elevate trades to the same status as university degree one
hundred and eighty ten eighty. Do you think their perception
still exists out there?

Speaker 4 (17:12):
Yeah, it feels like I guess the sort of the
crux of this topic, right is it feels like for
decades at least we've been telling kids that university is
the respectable path that you take. Right the preferred path
and that trades are a bit of a backup plan.

Speaker 7 (17:26):
Yep.

Speaker 4 (17:27):
But now trade's earned so much money and do so well,
and we're still sort of acting like the other path
is the superior path. So you know, maybe we don't
need as many university graduates, and maybe it's we've been
underveloping the people that we actually need to build things,
plum things, you know, fix things, and actually power the country.

(17:51):
But we've still got a school system that tries to
funnel as many people into university.

Speaker 3 (17:56):
Silly, has there been a mistake? One hundred and eighty
ten eighty that number to call get a James Good?

Speaker 5 (18:02):
Hey, how are you doing?

Speaker 3 (18:03):
Good mate? So what's what's your story?

Speaker 14 (18:06):
I've got a trade and engineering and then worked my
way through the system, got into the office and did
that for quite a few years, and then put myselves
extramarily through study and got a degree that way as well.
So I've got a trade and a degree, which is
quite a good pathway.

Speaker 4 (18:23):
So which way did you do it? So you got
the trade first?

Speaker 14 (18:27):
Correct?

Speaker 4 (18:28):
Yeah? And then you so when you're getting the trade,
were you getting paid for your training? And then you
went to university and went full time or did you
do that sort of part time while you're still earning.

Speaker 14 (18:39):
No, I did twenty years, worked my way through that
from the on the shop or to the upstairs office,
and then decided I wanted to go out contacting as
a consultant, at which time I sourced through Otago Polytechnic.
I could gain a degree because they were assess you

(18:59):
to see what your current knowledge level was for working
at those levels, and then Taylor of course for you
to attain a particular or any given and then put
you through that course. So I think probably cost me
financially about five thousand dollars.

Speaker 5 (19:15):
To get the degree.

Speaker 4 (19:16):
Wow. Do you feel that as far as perceptions concerned
that people and like? This is a hard question to answer,
and it might just be how you felt and personally,
not just professionally, but that the degree had more status
or more respect than the trade.

Speaker 14 (19:35):
The degree gives you probably the ability to communicate and
articulate at a higher level right where a lot of
trade is. And I love traders, but some of them
are great spellers where three level operators are generally better.
Spellers can formulate a communication via email and get things

(19:58):
across the line, but better that way where the traders
don't need the word power.

Speaker 4 (20:04):
But do you think it's possibly in your case that
you were sort of both ways capable? So so you you
you know, you obviously had the ability to achieve as
you as you went through your training, and but then
you were you also had the ability to achieve the
academic side of it as well.

Speaker 14 (20:26):
I did, but I couldn't stand in school until much
later in life than I actually had a reason for
studying the time to gain a different or a degree
level qualification that actually had some purpose behind me, and
did it relatively easily.

Speaker 4 (20:42):
Yeah, that's such a that's such a good point. At
what time in life your brain is ready to study
in a sort of an academic way. It's often not
when you're thirteen years old or fourteen or fifteen. You know,
I think a lot of people aren't just ready to
settle to hit the box yet.

Speaker 14 (21:01):
No, I've got to sustain your old daughter trying to
figure out what she's going to do with her life
at the moment, and so, well, did you want to
go to you that's a pretty expensive option. But yeah,
I don't know if you'll be much of a welder
sort of what do they do. Yeah, my direction was
pretty much research, what's got a good career pathway with

(21:22):
a good outcome financially with the least amount of study
and financial burden.

Speaker 3 (21:27):
Smart way to do it?

Speaker 4 (21:28):
Yeah, Well, I mean how did how did you say
your daughter was James?

Speaker 5 (21:32):
Sixteen?

Speaker 4 (21:33):
Yes? I mean, when you're sixteen, seventeen, eighteen, how are
you possibly supposed to know what how your life's going
to go? But that's the point where you decide to
decide to get yourself into a ridiculous amount of debt.

Speaker 14 (21:46):
Yeah, yeah, that's right. And the debt is so burdened
some of an ar Yeah, people that are, you know,
into their late forties by the time they've actually finished
stand off their own Yeah.

Speaker 4 (21:55):
And if you're that age, you don't really think about
the future because you're not ready to. So you go,
I'm never going to pay that off some forty year old?
Are we paying this?

Speaker 3 (22:01):
I don't have to worry about that.

Speaker 15 (22:03):
Yeah yeah, yeah, No, good on you, James. Yeah, hey, thanks, yeah,
thanks very much for giving us a buzz. Do you
agree with James, as it were, with it to go
both sides of the equation, to start as with a
trade as he did, and then go get a degree
later in life. Nine to nine two is the text.

Speaker 4 (22:20):
Afternoon lads trays a fantastic but agree that they can
be really tough on the body. Life expectancy is about
five years less than someone who's doing a non manual
doing non manual labor chairs.

Speaker 3 (22:29):
Johnny, keep those teachs coming through. Headlines with Raylene coming.

Speaker 16 (22:33):
Up, You's talk said be headlines with your Ride New
Zentand's number one taxi app Download your Ride today. Diesel
stocks have rebounded after last week's figure showed them falling
to the lowest level since the war in Iran began.
There were forty six point one days of diesel in
the country or on route as of Sunday. That's up

(22:54):
four point eight days on a week ago. The government's
tightening the screws on nitrous oxide missives with large canisters
to be automatically classified as a psychoactive substance and imports
requiring a pro from the Director General of Health. The
NZ drug trend surveys found cannabis clinics of prescribing much

(23:15):
more medicinal cannabis than GPS. About three hundred and eighty
thousand products were supplied last year, that's almost double the
number in twenty twenty.

Speaker 3 (23:24):
Resident doctors have.

Speaker 16 (23:26):
Agreed to a new pay deal, an increase of two
point five percent plus another two point five percent and
a three thousand dollars one off cash payment over twenty
six months. First fifteen Power rankings which schools will lead
the way in each region. You can see more at
enzdherld dot co dot nz. Are back to matt Ethan

(23:47):
Tyler Adams.

Speaker 3 (23:48):
Thank you very much, railing. So the New Zealand Institute,
they want to elevate trades to the same level as
university degrees when it comes to what they say is
prestige and status in society. Question puts you, is that
really true?

Speaker 4 (24:00):
Are the sex is not sure what this discussion is about. Well,
that's exactly what discussion is about. And it's the New
Zealand Institute saying that we need They believe that we
we unfairly raise university and academic degrees and training above
the trades right and school should funnel people both ways

(24:23):
from and so that's what we're talking about. So not
sure what this discussion is about. Is northing de text.
My most experienced tradesmen these days call themselves professionals, practitioners
and earn ninety dollars an hour. I think the call
for everyone to attend university by the socialist faction as
an added opportunity for indoctrination, despite the lack of value
in many degrees. Well, that's not what the discussion is about.

(24:44):
That's a totally different discussion. So you are to let
you're right at the start of the text, you are
not sure what this discussion is about.

Speaker 3 (24:50):
You came in late, be came in hot.

Speaker 4 (24:52):
You're honest, a new the area. You're not sure what
it's about. That's not what you It's not what it's about.

Speaker 3 (24:56):
No, no, but thank you very much for your texts.

Speaker 4 (24:58):
It's about potentially at year eleven, so pushing through academic
study up to year eleven at school yep. And so
that's and then looking to funnel people in two different
funnels at that point, the children, whether they're going to
academia or they're going to the trades, and diverting money
from universities so they can run these vocational based programs

(25:22):
at scale and skills. Yeah, that's what we're talking about.

Speaker 3 (25:25):
And the question we'll put to you is is that
something we need to do as a country. Our one
hundred and eighty ten eighty is that number to call
get a josh.

Speaker 7 (25:32):
Yeah, hey boys, good yarns, good yarns.

Speaker 4 (25:34):
Good on you, Josh, thanks for calling.

Speaker 17 (25:37):
Yeah hey yeah, No, I just kept looking at this
whole thing is it's got to be a mixture of
all of the above. Like some of the comments I've
heard from potential employers is they'll reflect positively on university education,
saying it shows that people can commit to something for

(25:58):
say four years, and really knuckle down and stay focused.
So if if you're not getting the job opportunities at eighteen,
and let's face it, nobody's really shoulder tapping these eighteen
year olds. If they go and get a university degree
where they're working on part time options, that maybe that's

(26:23):
more that's getting them heading in the right direction. But
you know what, I just wanted to say, the most
success some of the most successful people I've met are
actually people that grew into the company. So there are
people that got shoulder tapped at eighteen. They were either
construction laborers or just every day you know, run of

(26:48):
the mill minions, and you know, the employers sort of
shoulder taped them and said hey, look, I'm going to
put you through your engineer's degree, right, and then they
do that, and then they've got not only the years
of work experience, but now they've got the Tea Nicol degree.

Speaker 8 (27:10):
You know.

Speaker 17 (27:10):
On the other side of things, I see a lot
of people overqualified, like an engineer getting hired as a
laborer and doing high quality welding work and being paid
as a laborer. So's it is tough out there, and
there's a lot of experience workers that do things that

(27:32):
they can't get a qualification for. An example might be
retail management. There's actually no real formal qualification for retail
in this country. So fifteen years of my career is
in a box of unqualified. Yeah, right, do you see

(27:54):
what I mean?

Speaker 8 (27:54):
Yeah, you've got to have a bit of both.

Speaker 17 (27:58):
But Maddie, no good on you forgetting your degree because
it shows you can knuckle down and complete something.

Speaker 6 (28:05):
Man yew, there's a.

Speaker 4 (28:06):
Certain amount of certification. You're absolutely right. It means that
you finished it. So you've got this bit of paper,
so at least shows that I was able to stay
at university in past exams such that I've got an
anthropology and philosophy.

Speaker 8 (28:17):
Degree, and I'll tell you what. I'll tell you what
it does.

Speaker 7 (28:19):
Wonders for communication.

Speaker 17 (28:21):
And for dealing with people, right.

Speaker 4 (28:24):
Like, yeah, social skills.

Speaker 17 (28:26):
H Yeah, you didn't do that. You wouldn't have the
understanding in how to communicate with different kinds of individuals.

Speaker 6 (28:34):
Right.

Speaker 4 (28:34):
Yeah, thanks for that, Josh, you made me feel better
about it. I appreciate that. It's interesting though, what you
say about working on the job. So if you take
the new CEO of Apple, right, John Turners. So he
joined Apple in his early twenties as what was it.
I think he was a hardware engineer, right, and so
he's been at Apple for twenty five years. That's an

(28:56):
old school way I do it. It's interesting that he's
gone basically one of the top ten jobs in the
entire world ceo of Apple.

Speaker 7 (29:02):
Right.

Speaker 4 (29:03):
But he seems like that old school thing is coming
in and working all the way through the company right
to the very top.

Speaker 7 (29:08):
Right.

Speaker 3 (29:08):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (29:09):
Is that still a thing that happens much? Or is
this that's a mass kind of a massive outlier.

Speaker 3 (29:13):
It's a lot of grit involved, because you've got to
have it in your head. And whether he thought when
he started there, Hey, one day. I want to be CEO.
Maybe you did. But that pathway, as you say, twenty
five years for him. Sometimes other people it's forty years
to start at the bottom. You see supermart owners, they
start on the shelves, then forty years later they own
the supermarket. That is Hard Graft and you've got to
believe in that dream for a long time.

Speaker 4 (29:33):
Yeah, Hard Graft or just a company that's loyal to you,
and you're loyal to the company. Greg, welcome to show
your thoughts on this good afternoon.

Speaker 18 (29:40):
Mubbets. The Industry School dot com dot au. The Industry
School dot com dot au.

Speaker 4 (29:49):
Yes, I have a look at that, yep, I will.

Speaker 18 (29:52):
I've known about that.

Speaker 7 (29:53):
Well.

Speaker 18 (29:53):
This has been around for a long time. But it's
six campuses across southeast Queensland. Your students emerged from the
industry School with their high school certification as well as
a trade of their choice. And these are four youngsters
that are sort of maybe at fifteen sixteen, not really
going anywhere with the academy or with the English and

(30:14):
the writing and all the rest of it. And they
can finish their high school at one of these industry schools.
So it's the best of both worlds. You get your
high school qualification and you preck a trade of what
you come out with a qualification. I would say that
qualification would be entry level obviously at that age.

Speaker 4 (30:34):
Right, So this is what it says here we deliver
a unique education model with students in the years ten
to twelve spend five weeks each term in the classroom
in five weeks an industry through an apprenticeship or traineeship.
The model ensures they gain essential qualifications while applying their
learning directly in the work workspace. That sounds wicked. We
focus on preparing young people with the future, building job
readiness and sharpening their skills, boosting their confidence and opening doors.

(30:57):
We don't have anything like that here do we?

Speaker 18 (30:59):
No, excellent, we should have it a lot of the
things that the Ausies do that we don't do that
we should learn from compulsory superannuation, et cetera.

Speaker 4 (31:07):
But me on that, I have to go back in
the time machine and whack muldoon around it a little
bit around that one.

Speaker 3 (31:16):
I have a good day boy, you too, Jess, thank
you very much. I mean, that is effectively what the
New Zealand Institute.

Speaker 4 (31:20):
Are calling for.

Speaker 3 (31:21):
Right and creem me if I'm wrong. It's just quickly
before we got to play some messages. There was a
couple of tips that came through bring back woodwork and
metal work. I'm sure they exist to some extent. But
when I was in high school, you knew the guys
who were very good at woodwork. For example, the woodwork teacher,
he was still loosely in the industry, and he'd pick
out those boys and say, you've got a real talent
for this. I think you could go far in this industry,

(31:41):
and then he'd send them out on the job. So
this is at fifteen years old. Does that still happen
in school? Imagine it doesn't.

Speaker 4 (31:46):
Well, I was in middle work and I thought it
was funny to throw some soldier at someone, and mister
Hayward whacked me with a medal ruler and I ended
up having to sit through woodwork in front of the
deputy principal's office for the rest of the term.

Speaker 3 (31:57):
So you had no future in it.

Speaker 4 (31:59):
It doesn't work out for everyone.

Speaker 3 (32:00):
It is a quarterbastoo, beg y shortly.

Speaker 1 (32:03):
The issues that affect you, and a bit of fun
along the way. Matt Heath and Tyler afternoons news.

Speaker 3 (32:09):
Talks it is twelve to two. So a university degree
he's still seen as more prestigious than going into a trade.
I eight one hundred and eighty ten eighty is that
number to call? Nineteen nineties of text, Matt.

Speaker 4 (32:20):
You don't need to look all the way over to
Apple for the for your point. The new head of
Fonterra came through the cadet ship from David. So is
that Richard Allen?

Speaker 3 (32:31):
It is Richard Allen. I had no idea he had
started at the bottom. Wow, well done that man.

Speaker 4 (32:35):
Ah, Yeah, that's awesome when that happens. I'm just trying
to think I met another one recently that that started
at the bottom of a company went to the top.
But I'm just trying to remember the name of the company.
But yeah, that's a really good point. I didn't need
to go all the way to Apple for this example.

Speaker 3 (32:51):
Just one and right at home for great text. Thank you,
David Ben And it sounds like.

Speaker 8 (33:01):
Always a good day. Yeah, yes, I'm sorry. All the
still at the university trade has been on an equal power.
I'll actually put the trades ahead of the university graduates.
And I'll say that because I say that because well,
I mean, we're not young. And then I said to me,

(33:25):
you haven't got a sorry, she said, what's the man?
What's the man if you haven't got a knee compressive
or a welder in your garage? H and uh with me?
It stuck with me and who and who was too
afterwards you said, you're you're you're a wet blanket. But
the Hope to Car, for instance, we just finished that

(33:49):
and it just it just cracked me up. The amount
of suits and ties all standing around gloating on it
like they built.

Speaker 5 (33:59):
The place, you know, and it just it just made
me laugh.

Speaker 8 (34:04):
And I can tell you one thing. Not one of
them even listed a broom and sweet the floor. It's
just such a practical way you go about life. You know,
there's people are always going to be needing stuff booting made,
and you know you can also do a lot of
stuff for yourself outside of work, and and it works

(34:25):
that way as well. But you I, I'll do it, Yeah,
I reckon they should.

Speaker 4 (34:35):
The other day this about this being because I've got
some great New Zealanders working on my house at the
moment of reno. And you know that all the walls
will be pulled out and there rebuilding and stuff. And
so there's a group of about five or six guys
working in my house at the same time having a
great conversation. I was just in the other room doing something,
packing something up, and I said, it's pretty cool way
to live your life if you if you've got a

(34:57):
few dudes around you, you're doing something practical, you're actually
building something, making something, and there's a good opportunity for
decent gags and good chat while you're working in a
way that a lot of careers own have.

Speaker 8 (35:09):
The comaraderie, man, I tell you, the comaraderie is you've
got a team around you. And when you get a
good team, you spend more time with these guys too
than you do your own kids and your missus. So yeah,
they become pretty close and pretty tight. Yeah, and and
and like you say, you know, it's just a it's
a great lifestyle.

Speaker 4 (35:29):
I think there's something that that makes it the human
feel good. When you've actually bolt something.

Speaker 19 (35:39):
Trumpet.

Speaker 8 (35:39):
You don't want to play your own trumpet too loud, though,
because we've we've got those around and and you know,
they blow the trump and blow the trumpet. But everybody
makes mistakes, you see, and when you do do that
and you're not one of those people, it's okay. But
those guys that do, yeah, you call those boys bloody good,
bloody good. Laugh at the end of the day too.
You know you you've done. You've got yourself a you've

(36:02):
just done a gym gym circuit, you know. Yeah, what you're.

Speaker 4 (36:08):
Saying is when you're driving past to Kaha, you're not
going to say to anyone. You know, I built a
bit of that. You know, you're I'm part of that.

Speaker 10 (36:16):
We do just the kids, just for the kids.

Speaker 8 (36:19):
Convention Convention Center was another great build that. Yeah, that
was very proud of that place because that was two
and a half years for the for the woodwork, I
specialized in the woodwork and yeah, just the challenges there
because there's nothing at ninety degrees. It was all on
an angle. Will Yeah, And you really do get a
sense of satisfaction and it gives you confidence like you

(36:41):
do stuff like that, you know, it just obviously go thinking,
well we're fucking do that, what else can I do?
And you just challenge yourself and you push yourself and
push yourself.

Speaker 3 (36:49):
Yeah, it's awesome. Ben pride in your work. I'm got
to say, our dad is a sparky. When we were
driving around as kids, why that house, Why that house? Boys?
It was one of mine. Yeah, you've got to take
pride in your work.

Speaker 4 (36:59):
After Ben's called in, when I'm driving past Tokha, I
say that my mate Ben, my mate Ben did a
lot of that.

Speaker 3 (37:05):
It's a lot of cred there, a lot of the convention.

Speaker 4 (37:07):
Seeing my mate Ben for two months on the phone.

Speaker 3 (37:10):
Kids are gonna love you, babe. Right, it is seven
minutes to two, Beck, very shortly. You listening to Newstalk's
Hebb madd.

Speaker 2 (37:16):
Heath, Taylor Adams taking your calls on, Oh eight hundred
and eighty ten eighty. It's Matt Heath and Taylor Adams Afternoons.

Speaker 3 (37:22):
News Talks MB News Talks Hebb. It is five to two.
We're going to carry this on after two o'clock, taking
your calls on, oh eight hundred and eighty ten eighty.
So university degrees more prestigious than going into a trade.
If you've gone into a trade, how has it worked
out for you? A couple of texts coming through afternoon gents,
I've been working in the trade trades training sector. For
the last twenty years, schools spend eighty percent of their

(37:44):
time on twenty percent of the students, then another thirty
percent go to varsity anyway and fail. I've had so
many coming out of varsity going back to do a trade.
I did a trade first, then after some time went
into academic education. That was because I was ready for it.
That's from Phil Hi.

Speaker 4 (37:58):
Guys, I love the trades as much as anyone, but
we need to remember it's the academics and suits that
organize the finance and projects that allow trades to do
their jobs and make their money. Yeah. Well, that's why
the suggestion seems quite logical.

Speaker 19 (38:10):
Right.

Speaker 4 (38:11):
You train people academically with an academic flow up to
year eleven, and then those that have a propensity in
one way go towards academia and the path university, and
those that have a different propensity they have joined a
path to vocational trading into the trades, yep. And then
you then you just grab a bunch of money off
the universities. You crawl that and you throw it into

(38:33):
the schools for the vocational change, and the universities get
stuffed and they might have to shut down their ba
and puppetry.

Speaker 3 (38:40):
Is that a good idea is that nobody go Yes,
sport and weather is fast approaching. Hey, great to have
your company on this Wednesday afternoon. You stay right here
because we will be back very soon.

Speaker 4 (38:53):
Complements from continue.

Speaker 2 (39:03):
The big stories, the big issues, the big trends and
every between.

Speaker 1 (39:09):
And Matt Heath and Taylor Adams Afternoons News Talk said.

Speaker 3 (39:12):
The afternoon to you, welcome back into the program. Seven
passed through, great heavier listening and we're going to carry
this discussion on for a little while. And that discussion
is around trades and university degree. So this is from
the New Zealand Institute. They put out a report. They
want to see the trades elevated to the same level
as university degrees when it comes to prestige, they say,

(39:35):
and status in society.

Speaker 4 (39:37):
Yeah. So for years we've been told, we've been telling
our kids that university is the way to go, that's
the that's the upper echelon road, and trades a bit
of a secondary plan. If you can't get to university,
if you're not academically inclined, then you take the secondary path.
But you know, trades earning all this money now, aren't they?

(39:58):
So I think being a trade is great. If no,
this text here is as good as I feel as
a trade, says this text to Sam, I feel more
prestigious than most union workers with my high Lux V
twelve and the sadies boat and house by thirty.

Speaker 3 (40:11):
Aha, it's good feeling that is very prestigious.

Speaker 4 (40:14):
Suck on that scarfees. So maybe the question isn't whether
we need more university graduates. Maybe it's whether we've been
quietly undervaluing those that actually do stuff right plumbing, transport.
I mean not to say that people are going to
university don't do stuff like say been as this person
said before, you know the you know, the tradees celebrating

(40:37):
the finishing of takaha. The architect can also celebrate that, right, Yeah.

Speaker 3 (40:41):
They add value to a lot of things in life.

Speaker 4 (40:44):
Well, I mean the architects add a huge value to
the designed. Yeah, yeah, you know, and all the plans
you know you need the plans you do. But I
think there's a nice way to put it up. Have
we undervalued going into the trades, particularly for our school
leaverers O. E. One hundred and eighty ten eighty is
and under to call it nineteen ninety two is the
text number. Hi, guys. Is a pathway in secondary school
called the Gateway program and for students who are not academic.

(41:06):
My son has always loved the ocean. With our help
and school's input with Health and Safety First Aid VHF
Radio course Day Skip, a course tailored for him to
achieve his high school level to NCAA. From there, he
got the last year's fees free and study to get
his commercial skipper's ticket. Now three years on the water
for private Water Transport CO and Harbourmaster with no student loan.

(41:27):
How good, cheers James.

Speaker 3 (41:29):
Yeah, great position to be and thank you very much.
To another James, how are you doing good?

Speaker 5 (41:35):
How are you from doing fellas?

Speaker 18 (41:36):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (41:36):
Good mate? What's your thoughts?

Speaker 20 (41:38):
So?

Speaker 6 (41:38):
Look, I think I'm all for bolstering up the trades,
but I think when we do bolster up the trades,
a larger conversation needs to be had because a lot
of the entry level jobs are kind of walking out
the door, for example, either AI or machinery, even just
machinery on a day to day, like I build cabinets myself,
and you know, entry level jobs. We used to have

(42:00):
guys doing edge banning on the stuff. We bought a
fifteen thousand dollars machine. We now don't need an entry
level guy. I feel that that's happening a lot throughout
many of the trades.

Speaker 4 (42:14):
Can you can you explain just for let's just imagine
one of us is an idiot here, can you explain
what the what the fifteen thousand dollars machine does that
was being done before by the entry level employee.

Speaker 6 (42:26):
Yeah, basically, like every bit of cabinets bit of cabineture
that you have comes as a panel and where the
raw wood edge, and.

Speaker 11 (42:34):
What that does is that put it slaps on a
piece of tape around the edge.

Speaker 6 (42:38):
It makes it nice and rounded and sanded so there's
no sharp edges.

Speaker 11 (42:42):
And what what might take an entry.

Speaker 6 (42:45):
Level guide a couple of hours to do, say ten panels,
I can bang out all those panels on the machine
in ten minutes.

Speaker 4 (42:53):
And does that mean that you can produce more?

Speaker 11 (42:57):
So it does mean.

Speaker 6 (42:58):
It does mean that you can produce more, but you're
kind of at a point where you've really taken a
big chunk of their hours out of the week.

Speaker 11 (43:09):
We can produce more, but to be fair, it comes
at a lot higher level, the stuff that you need
to be able to do.

Speaker 4 (43:16):
Did you come through a game, did you come through
from entry level James, and you know, do that job
that's now been replaced.

Speaker 5 (43:23):
Yeah, I mean I did.

Speaker 10 (43:24):
I came.

Speaker 6 (43:25):
I came doing that. I came through doing that job.
I spent hours and hours an hours doing it. And
now we have a machine that we just literally feed
it in like a machine, feed it in and it
just eats.

Speaker 11 (43:37):
It does the whole thing for you.

Speaker 6 (43:39):
And look, I used to be in the marine industry
as well, and used to have captains who used to
have to get tons and tons of hours at sea.
Once those captains are heading their masters, they're now actually tiloading,
trialling at home, piloting.

Speaker 11 (43:55):
So you basically have a boats are full ships cockpit
at your at your desk.

Speaker 6 (44:03):
And you go and control a boat from your house.
You're not needing to go into those hours at sea
like as trades and I mean, yeah, if you're like
looking out the window order yeah, but but.

Speaker 4 (44:15):
You you would still have to have some pretty high
level training to be that person working from home, you know,
controlling the.

Speaker 6 (44:22):
Correct you would, but a lot of the jobs going
up to that, say, for example, all of the all
of the chart work that would be done by a
lower level deckan right now, or getting done on computers
as well, and then they would be overlooked by the master.

Speaker 11 (44:39):
But yeah, but just on the industry is changing for sure.

Speaker 3 (44:42):
In the keebinet tree industry. Then what happens to you, James?
If you move up and they need another you? I mean,
is this a question of changing the the apprenticeship model
that you incorporate more training so you skip the entry level.
But yeah, you're being in and you're starting where you
are now, Yeah.

Speaker 6 (45:01):
I mean I would say that that's yeah, I would
say that you could definitely do that, but that's a
that's a much more longer stride to get to that,
Whereas you know, just standing a few edges and slowly
learning it bit by bit and piecemeal is probably the
best way. Whereas if you're going to be bringing somebody

(45:22):
up above that entry level, you know, it's a lot,
it's a lot more to chewe what's.

Speaker 4 (45:28):
The demand like for I mean, still being considered handmade,
you know, even if that's gone through a machine, right,
what's the demand like for for the kind of stuff
that you're making?

Speaker 6 (45:38):
I mean, look, there's still demand. I mean, we deal
with a lot of high end, high end clients. My
houses were delivery pumps for me today. But then the
guys on the sort of lower level end of it,
like I personally purchased my own cabinets from a thing
like Ikea.

Speaker 11 (45:58):
It was just way cheaper for me to buy.

Speaker 6 (46:00):
That and look love to support local, but the difference
of paying eight thousand dollars for a nice wardrobe is
twelve hundred dollars or something from Ika. It was a
no brainer for me, and I just put it together
at home myself with a few beers and some mates.

Speaker 4 (46:16):
You'd probably be awesome at putting together a flat pack though,
compared to most people games.

Speaker 11 (46:20):
Yeah, but it's still the dane their resistence.

Speaker 4 (46:23):
You know, Do you ever just give up and try
and have some screws through and just stop exactly?

Speaker 8 (46:30):
Like I think.

Speaker 6 (46:30):
I definitely think trades is more beneficial than going to
university and getting a Bachelor of Arts and how to
be a tosser.

Speaker 4 (46:38):
That's what I.

Speaker 6 (46:40):
Yeah, like I would, I do. I do think that
there definitely there's some weight to it. And yeah, for example,
for a job like you guys do sure that's great.
You guys produce good content for traders throughout their day. Thanks,
But it's the guys, I guess start focusing on the
guys they actually need to get on the tools and
what that sort of looks like. Because if you guys

(47:01):
seen in the videos of the of like the robots
with their fricking hands that can spend screwdrivers and spin.

Speaker 10 (47:09):
A nut and a bolt on, and like, I'm a
two year old right.

Speaker 6 (47:13):
Now, and in fifteen years is he going to be
able to outpace a robot that can spin a nut
in five seconds?

Speaker 4 (47:20):
But I guess that's always been happening, right, So there's
different forms of automation that's been coming through and it.

Speaker 11 (47:27):
Has got totally. But you've also got the same example
of brick layers.

Speaker 6 (47:30):
You've got guys who will come set up a frame
and they essentially three D print a house made out
of bricks. That's another trade that's essentially gone out the
windows sooner rather than later. And I mean, all of
this conversation is great for the next five years, but
onwards after that, with the development of technology, it's good.
The conversation is going to have to be had again

(47:51):
and probably a little bit deeper.

Speaker 18 (47:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (47:53):
I mean the thing with AI, though, James, is ultimately
there has to be a human that's responsible for the
work that's done, and AIS proving itself to be a
reasonably high error rate worth one that you can point
to and say that was his fault. So if you've
got if you've got a brick layer, then then all

(48:15):
the way through that's that that process, you've got something
that someone that's legally responsible, an entity, a legal entity
that's responsible for what's going on.

Speaker 6 (48:25):
So I agree with that, But that could be one
guy with one machine versus if you look at the
way traditional brick layers would be maybe one guy managing
the job, owning the business, and he's got five guys
laying bricks the whole time.

Speaker 4 (48:38):
Yeah, I mean it must be interesting in terms of
the kitchen market and cabinet try right, because that is
definitely being taken over by you know, the.

Speaker 8 (48:50):
Whole machines as well.

Speaker 7 (48:54):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (48:54):
Yeah, everything can just get basically you put it in,
put in the programming, it gets shot out, or you
need to do is screw and the screws and it
goes together like a like a high tech piece of lego.

Speaker 3 (49:05):
Yeah, you don't think the bar is higher though when
it comes to what you do, James, and whatever the
future holds, who knows. I think you're in a far
better future proof job than there many people. But you know,
when you look at the customer who's using your products,
I think the bar's far higher that if you bring
AI into it, they'll decide don't want I don't want
stuff built by a robot. I want stuff built by

(49:25):
a human because I can't trust the quality of robot
produced products.

Speaker 8 (49:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (49:30):
Correct, I mean five years ago you used to I
mean so probably not five years but three years ago
you used to get accountants getting caught out for the
mistakes that AI was making. Now you've got accountancy firms
completely laying off whole terms of whole offices of people
because their job has been taken over by AI.

Speaker 4 (49:49):
Yeah, but a lot of that is coming back now.
And it comes down to that AI. I get into.
Its complicated, but the amount of time from the initial
task being sent off to the end and the amount
of the exponential amount of computations that have to come
for the token recognition and the token prediction can cause

(50:12):
a lot of problems over time. So what they're finding
is that you have to come back to a human
and large language models. I think we're all accepting now
and not the pathway to AGI. So there needs to
be a person that resets it regularly, where else it's
output becomes completely and utterly insane quite quite quickly.

Speaker 6 (50:32):
No, I look, I totally agree, and like we already
use AI within our business with generating images of the
cabinets that we're going to produce for the customers. And yeah,
it doesn't get it right all the time, but it
gets it right way faster and five seconds than what
any of our guys could draw up on sketch up.

(50:53):
And you know, five it take them a couple of
hours to do AI dob than five seconds. Don't get
me wrong. He is not the barrel and end all.
But it's getting dumber. Yeah, it's not getting dumber.

Speaker 10 (51:03):
It's getting better.

Speaker 4 (51:05):
Yeah, it is getting It's not getting smarter though either.
That's the thing. It might be getting more functional as
a tool, but it's never going to get any smarter.
It's never anyway. That's a different topic. But hey, thanks
so much for your call. James really appreciate it and
all the best out there.

Speaker 6 (51:23):
Thanks, have a lovely day guy to mate.

Speaker 3 (51:25):
Yes, some very interesting thoughts on what a great call.
Oh eight hundred and eighty ten eighty is the number
to call if you want to jump on what James
was saying about the entry level positions and the future.
By all means do that. We will be back very shortly.
It is nineteen past two.

Speaker 4 (51:38):
This is a nice text that's come through here. Matt,
you are a top class toss and what's honors man?

Speaker 3 (51:43):
Oh that's beautiful.

Speaker 1 (51:47):
Your home of afternoon talk Matt Heathen Tyler Adams afternoons
call Oh eight hundred eighty ten eighty us talk said be.

Speaker 3 (51:57):
It is twenty two pass to plenty of texts coming
through on whether unit diversity degrees are seen as somehow
more prestigious than going into a trade.

Speaker 4 (52:05):
This sexta says when I finished school in two thousand
and two, I was put towards university as Auckland University
of Technology because that was the expected pass. Three years
later I left with around twenty thousand debt and never
used any of it. I've now spent the last sixteen
years working for myself and the flooring trade, and in
hindsight I should have gone straight into it from school.

Speaker 3 (52:23):
I haven't looked back.

Speaker 4 (52:24):
Trades offer a genuine lifestyle and a real pathway to
working for yourself, where the harder you work, the greater
the reward. Back then, there was definitely a stigma around trades,
and to be honest, it still exists to some extent today.
But if I knew at school what I know now,
I would have chosen a trade from day one without hesitation.

Speaker 3 (52:41):
Cheers Dan the flooring company, good plug there, what a
great texts? Thank you Dan, Ricky You're a trade there lad?
Are we good mates? What do you reckon?

Speaker 5 (52:55):
When I left school, I went to university, got a
marketing degree and that's been the next fifteen years in
sales and marketing, and YE enjoyed it and all that
work my way out the ladder, and then I started
the addressy to I and a burned apprenticeship and adult apprenticeship.
I'm now forty four in my own business, and to
be fair, yeah, I would have looked back. Made I

(53:18):
really love and enjoy what I do. Having that degree though,
from university, did set me out well to be in
a position to run a business, because I don't think
I could do that from school. But hey, look, I
think the stigma around trade. Yeah, I definitely think if
you if you've got a trade, you've got it made right.

Speaker 7 (53:37):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (53:37):
So do you think their trades disappeared was as close
to disappearing?

Speaker 5 (53:42):
Well, yes, to know, I don't think you really replace
trades with AI that people are talking about. But I
do feel like a lot of kids, especially my children,
these days, there's a big emphasis on wanting to be
a YouTube sensation or being an Instagram and all that. Yeah,
to them, being a builder isn't there's appealing. But you know,

(54:04):
when you look at us, were lucky we freehold because
of the business where we love a pretty relaxed lifestyle.
For them, they should really look at the trades because
they said, you know, if you start your apprenticeship, you've
got no upfront bills or any upfront rowe costs any money.
From day one, you're gaining these skills and if you
end up being a homeowner you can work in your

(54:26):
own home. You've got traders you can rely on to
do purkis to help you, painters, plasters, sparkys, climbers, your
whole lot. You know, they just helps you massively in
the long runer.

Speaker 4 (54:36):
How do you how do you convince kids, you know
that think they want to be an Instagram influencer or
they want to be famous, so they want to be
a YouTuber that working hard with a good crew and
making something tangible is what actually makes people happy. Somehow
people have sort of forgotten that they did this really
humiliating survey recently and the second most desired profession for

(55:01):
UK children was being an assistant to a famous person. God,
that is so bleak. Yeah, And the fact that they
haven't that there's there's a gap and that's the UK,
not necessarily in New Zealand and hopefully we're a bit
more down to earth here, but the fact that we
have failed in a way in society that people would

(55:22):
even consider that that's a good way forward, if you
know what I mean by the idea, rather than I
build something for myself like you have Ricky and then
it and then it's you build a life and it's
something that's that's.

Speaker 3 (55:34):
Real, tangible and and yours, yeah exactly.

Speaker 5 (55:39):
And then the problem these days there's too many kids
are watching YouTube, they're following gamers who do gaming for
a living, and you know, well because mostly because these
days love their game, and they're thinking, how can I
make a million dollars? How can I drive Batman beginning?
How can I get that? I don't want to be
like my dad who goes to work at sixtety every morning,
gets home at six to night and is you know,
half broken, and he's boring because he's just a boring builder.

(56:03):
But I think for them, it's like, well, I don't
know what you go, but I can't tell my kids
to do, you know, to get their bloody shoes on
the Besit time for them to want to be a
trade is definitely not going to work. So I think
to them as a child and era, I do hope
that when they get to that age when they're seventeen eighteen,
because there are only twelve and turn any moment, when
they get to that age, maybe it will dawn upon

(56:26):
them that, you know, not everybody who wants to be
a YouTube sensation or a game sensation or the nick
muster Beast, not earone can beat him. And maybe the
realization will be maybe I'll go to dead during the
school holidays and maybe I'll in some pocket money to
buy you know, buy some new shoes or whatever, and
actually learn, Yeah, well, yeah.

Speaker 4 (56:45):
You might be right there. I mean, it's not like
the first generation. And often we have this thing where
we look down at the new generations and actually you
go back and read Roman writings and they were saying
the same thing about the young people. But you know,
when I was at high school, my you know, what
do you call it? What's the job person? You go to,
the vocation person whatever asked me what I wanted to

(57:06):
be and I said a rock star. Yeah, I want
to I want to be a rockstar. And she said
that's stupid essentially, But you know, so I had head
in the clouds in the same way. Then again, what
am I now on some talkie on the radio wounder
so you know shows and you do it around the
country and yeah, but you know what I mean, and
maybe maybe what you're saying is that they all we

(57:28):
all find reality at some point.

Speaker 5 (57:31):
Yeah, some point earlier. I know, there's something later. I
think My one was the only reason I went to
university was or my mates We're like, oh, we're going
to parm me and we're going to we're going to
get the messy and I was like, oh, I want
to be a scarping too. I'm just going to sign
up for a course and get on the every weekend,
and that just that was the leading to what I did,
but it wasn't what I enjoyed doing. And you know,

(57:53):
you've got to you gotta have these paths to recognize that,
you know, for the on the track, you might come
to realization that you know, there's things more massually tangible
or more enjoyable out of you, Like I enjoy what
I do because I see the benefit from what I
do every day.

Speaker 4 (58:07):
Do you agree with sticks that's come through? Don't forget tradies,
get the ladies.

Speaker 5 (58:12):
Sam, Yeah, I've got the lady and yeah she's been
for seventeen years, so it's the lady.

Speaker 3 (58:21):
Okay, Well mate, Sam Broocky can confirm here you go, great,
thank you, thank you very much. It is twenty eight
pass too Begary shortly.

Speaker 1 (58:34):
Matt Heathen, Tyler Adams afternoons call oh eight hundred eighty
ten eighty on News Talk ZB.

Speaker 3 (58:40):
It has been on half pass to a couple of
texts to wrap this up. Get our guys. Any lawyer
can become a plumber, but not any plumber can become
a lawyer. She's one particular six I think that's slightly controversial,
and this was a nice one today, guys. I remember
David Longi, lawyer and former Prime minister of course, saying
once that he really envied his brother Peter, a renowned

(59:01):
seramist and potter, because Peter had something tangible to show
for his life's work, while David just had paper work.
That's from Pauline. It's a nice way to put it.
I mean, I didn't realize David Longie envied his brother,
but that is goes back to, you know, that satisfaction
of producing something tangible that has a lot to do
with happiness in life.

Speaker 4 (59:20):
Sad thing is trade's trade being a trade he kills
you before retirement, especially if age goes up the same
as service jobs. And rarely there's people are making more
on TikTok than corporate now, so few people are this
idea that you can make more money on TikTok.

Speaker 8 (59:35):
I mean.

Speaker 3 (59:37):
Some can, some can, the very few. Yeah, And then
in terms of you know, we're talking about happiness there.
But I remember seeing an interview with mister Beast, who
is one of the if not the most wealthiest YouTubers
on the planet. He said in that interview. He is
more unhappy than he is happy in life. Yeah, he
is not a happy guy, and he'd readily admit.

Speaker 4 (59:56):
That YouTubers they all burn out. It's terrible life. You
chasing the algorithm. Yep, it's not a good way to
earn your money. But also just saying that some people
earn more on TikTok, it's you know, it's like there's
no point in being a trade because Brad Pitt earns
more making movies. Yeah, yeah, it's just not you don't
need to bunce. There's always something that's going to earn

(01:00:18):
more than you doing less.

Speaker 7 (01:00:19):
Yep.

Speaker 4 (01:00:20):
Well, there's always the case, but you've got to forge
a realistic path for your life, right, yeah, exactly, And going,
I'm not gonna even bother. What's the point of getting
a trade when some moron's making money or TikTok or
this this lady on only fans. Yeah, it's making a
whole lot of money.

Speaker 3 (01:00:36):
Make some good money on only fans something some do, Yeah,
but not everyone.

Speaker 4 (01:00:40):
Some do the same stuff on only fans and don't
make any money.

Speaker 11 (01:00:43):
Yep.

Speaker 3 (01:00:43):
Very true.

Speaker 4 (01:00:44):
Yeah, Yeah, that's a grim way to look at the world.

Speaker 3 (01:00:46):
Certainly is a great discussion. Thank you to everybody who
called and text on that one. Coming up after the headlines,
we won't to ever talk about AI. When it comes
to real estate images, so digitally brightening nut lawns and
property listings, it is becoming more common. So is this
just showing what a property could be or is it
marketing trickery? Trickery? When it comes to digitally altering real

(01:01:09):
estate photos.

Speaker 4 (01:01:10):
How often have you seen the dream house in the
picture and then you've gone round to it to on
the open day and it's been an absolute.

Speaker 3 (01:01:20):
Humiliatory tell us. So one hundred and eighty ten eighty
is that number? Call nineteen ninet two is the text?
The headline's coming up.

Speaker 1 (01:01:27):
You've talk said be headlines with.

Speaker 16 (01:01:29):
Your Ride, New Zealand's number one taxi app. Download your
ride today. The Government's not considering tweaking legislation to help
flight schools cope with soaring fuel prices. The Aviation Industry
Association says the law stops them passing on increased costs
to domestic students. Cannabis use is rising, with medicinal prescriptions

(01:01:52):
and falling prices, making it easier to get than ever.
A survey is found and outs now costs twenty two
percent lease on the illegal market than in twenty seventeen.
US President Donald Trump's claiming King Charles is an agreement,
the US attack on RA is necessary. The King wrapped
up in historic address to Congress this morning, only the

(01:02:14):
second delivered by a British monarch. Health New Zealand's created
a new Chief Nurse for Mental Health and Dediction role
and the bid to strength and mental health and Dediction care.
Chris Hepkin says prime ministers should front up to media
and says he advised Jacinderada not to pull out of
her weekly news talk ZEDB interview with Mike Cosking. Residents

(01:02:36):
claim victory as Ryman backs down on retirement village atm removal.
You can find out more at inzdherld dot co dot ZD.
Back to matt Ethan Tyler Adams.

Speaker 3 (01:02:47):
Thank you very much. Raylean, so AI and photoshop and
real estate images so digitally brightening up lawns and property listenings.
It is becoming a lot more common with agents using
photo editing and artificial intelligence to turn, for example, patchy
grass into lush, flowing lawns to boost online appeal. The
idea is pretty obvious is to grab attention and help
buy as a mad It's home a home at its best.

(01:03:11):
That's according to agents, but critics say it can cross
the line into misleading, especially when the reality doesn't match
the photos. And while it's often compared to virtual staging indoors,
that debate comes down to trust. How far is too
far when photoshopping or using AI to change how a
property looks.

Speaker 4 (01:03:28):
So, yeah, I'd be interested to talk to real estate
agents one hundred and eighty ten eighty whether there is
a backlash if you've overly enhanced the property. So what
the line is? Because I think a blue sky is
fine because that's not the real estate agent's fault that
it's not a sunny day when they take the photo.

Speaker 3 (01:03:47):
Yeah, and that doesn't affect the property.

Speaker 4 (01:03:48):
When they get the photos done. Pumping up the lawn
so it looks better than it is.

Speaker 10 (01:03:53):
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:03:53):
That's very You're on the fence on that one, giving
it a.

Speaker 4 (01:03:55):
Full paint job that it doesn't have. That's interesting, But
for the longest time there's been using wide angle lenses
to make living eras seem bigger than they are. Right, Yes,
So how does that play out when someone comes to
look at the house and they see the reality of it,
because how many people are buying it just off the
listing and the pictures that they see. And also the

(01:04:18):
other thing is that you're in the house and you know,
I've gone to a number of open homes, and you're
in the house and you're you're walking around and you're
holding the picture yeah, in their print out, and.

Speaker 3 (01:04:27):
You're in the house, and you go hold it up
and say, is this the same house? Am I the
right place?

Speaker 18 (01:04:33):
Yeah?

Speaker 16 (01:04:34):
Oh?

Speaker 3 (01:04:34):
E one hundred and eighty ten eighty isn't able to
call if you are in real estate? What is the
situation when it comes to AI use? Is it just
a marketing tool for you? Or can it sometimes be
a bit misleading? Nine two ninety two is the text number?
Get a Steve?

Speaker 4 (01:04:52):
I get a Steve. How are you sorry? Mate? Your
phone wasn't on there for a second? Apologies for that.

Speaker 21 (01:04:57):
It's all right now.

Speaker 1 (01:04:57):
How's it going guy.

Speaker 21 (01:04:59):
I've worked in the industry of marketing for real estate
way back for when you know, marketing for photographs in
the newspaper was the way i' you can do it
for about twenty years. All you're basically talking about is
AI being another tool in the toolbox that's been around forever.
We've been manipulating photographs like that for agents for decades.

(01:05:19):
Literally greening up lawn, that's fine. You can plant lawn.
Moving rubbish out of the property, that's another thing that
can be done. The general rule of some has always
been if it's a temporary thing or something that's environmental,
like as you say, bluing up the sky, clear cutting
a property out of the sky and get moving the

(01:05:40):
overcast and putting a nice blue sky behind it. Lighting adjusting, that's.

Speaker 1 (01:05:44):
Been always done.

Speaker 21 (01:05:46):
The rule is if there's a lamp post in front
of the property, you can't move it. If it's something permanent,
you can't change it. If there's something that will you know,
if you want to trim a tree, you can. You
can get rid of a bit of a tree if
you want to, because that is something that can actually
be done by somebody if they wanted to do that.
But all this talk about AI, it's new, it's new.
All it is is slightly more accessible because days of

(01:06:09):
agents doing it themselves is a little bit more prevalent.

Speaker 4 (01:06:12):
But well, yeah, I mean obviously you'd be people are
be able to photoshop he at shop for a long time.
But there is generative AI, right, so you're actually creating
new images as opposed to say, for example, at leta's
give an example here in your and your rule of
thumb there, can you give the place a new paint job?

Speaker 11 (01:06:34):
Yes?

Speaker 6 (01:06:36):
Really yeah?

Speaker 4 (01:06:37):
But then but then if I buy the house, I
have to go in there because even with the with
the lawn, if it's but patchy, and I have to
if I buy the house, I then have to grow
the lawn. So I have to do something to the house.
And if it's been given a paint job, then I
have to paint the house. It can cost sixty thousand dollars.

Speaker 21 (01:06:53):
If the if the house was if the house was
was white and you made it blue, no differently, not okay,
But if the house was a little bit I mean
I had a bit of moss and mold growing on
one of them, some of the weatherboards outside or something. Yeah,
you can get rid of that, because that's something that
could actually be done. If the gray of grass was
green today and then some kids went and played football
on it tomorrow and turfed it all up again. That's

(01:07:15):
something that can be remedied and fixed quite simply and easily.
You're just not allowed to fundamentally change it to make
it disproportionate to what it truly actually is.

Speaker 4 (01:07:27):
If we go back further, because you've been in the
industry for a while, Steve, so you've a great person
to talk to about this. If we go back further
than AI, further back than photoshop, what about white angle
lenses that were you're taking a photo specifically to make
a say, a lounge look larger than it is.

Speaker 21 (01:07:46):
Yes, absolutely so, fish eye lenses. You used to not
be able to get a lens for a through the
lens camera before digital. Let's talk let's talk before digital
where we're talking about having the dark room and so forth.
And in the newspaper industry you would employ a professional
photographer who had the multi thousand dollar lens in order
to just get that photography so that you could make.

Speaker 11 (01:08:09):
That room look more spacious.

Speaker 4 (01:08:11):
What is the logic behind this though, because at some
point you're going to go round to the house and
you're going to see that the lorna's patchy, and the
paint job isn't right, and the lounges tiny.

Speaker 21 (01:08:22):
Absolutely, and that's the whole point of from a buyer's perspective,
you would never go and buy its sight unsea. You'd
always go round and make your own assessment of it,
but you've got no control over when those photos would
take it. One of the ones that's frowned upon in
the industry is, you know, when house flipping was common,
you'd find the photographs that were two years old being

(01:08:43):
used to remarket the property again because they were already
in existence, but you'd be able to go and steal
off ray White and grab them for the hard courts
listing that was and truly out of date.

Speaker 3 (01:08:54):
Gotcha. But part of the steve surely is when you
use these sort of doctored images to get more people
through the door. Let's be honest here. That is for
the agent to show to the owner, Hey, look how
many people we head through today. And the reality is
some of those people coming through might have said, hang
on a minute, there's no grass here, Hey, this mark's
all over this. Well, I need to spend a lot

(01:09:14):
on painting and walk away.

Speaker 21 (01:09:17):
The argument has been and whether you agree or disagree,
this is where it becomes contentious. Is the marketing of
a property is an invitation to buy. It's not you're
buying that photograph. You're buying a property, and it would
be up to you to do your own due diligence
to go and look at it. So the fact that
the agent is showing that property in its best light,
they haven't fundamentally changed something. You can't.

Speaker 11 (01:09:39):
You know, you couldn't repair a fence if the fence
was broken.

Speaker 22 (01:09:44):
You know.

Speaker 11 (01:09:45):
You can.

Speaker 21 (01:09:45):
You can clean something, you can adjust something, you can
change something, but you can't change something that is fundamentally
not true. So the biggest one would that I've come
across many many times is a photograph with a lampost
in the middle of it, and someone goes, oh, can
you get rid of that lamp post? No, definitely not, because.

Speaker 4 (01:10:04):
That's someone's just texted through and they I see that
This text is I went to an open home and
there was a massive power pylon over the back fence
that wasn't in the marketing photos. So what about framing
the photos so certain things aren't in the shot?

Speaker 21 (01:10:18):
So again, cropping a photo in a clever way, as
long as you're not removing it, you're only trying to
portray that property in its best light. That is a
marketing tool. That is the way it's been done, but
it's not new. AI may make that simpler, and AI
does open the tools to As you say, when the

(01:10:40):
likes of chat GBT takes an image, it doesn't actually
adjust the image that you give it. It actually does
regenerate the image from the beginning. So it has the potential,
even if it's an error, to actually emit an item
that should be there that it thinks shouldn't be, and
that can sometimes sneak through. Again, it's up to the
owners of the user to make sure that's not wrong.

(01:11:01):
Real estate agents can get a lot of trouble since
two thousand and eight when the Real Estate Institute law
came in. You'll notice on all adverting it goes area
two thousand and eight that law that they are putting
in there is a reference states that they cannot misrepresent.

Speaker 4 (01:11:18):
But so there's another thing that happens here where you
have a view. But what's happened is the photos been
taken on a long lens off, you know, on a
weird angle out the window, leaning out maybe on a ladder,
taking the shot and then putting that in the as

(01:11:38):
if that's a view that you can actually enjoy if
you live in the property.

Speaker 21 (01:11:44):
Yeah, again, views that can't be obtained from that property
with ease is another area. I've often seen it where
someone's actually taken a photographed someone's actually got in trouble
for this one where they've taken a near central Auckland
suburb and they've gone, oh, look at the view, and

(01:12:05):
that view isn't from that house, that's actually from the
reserve about three or four.

Speaker 4 (01:12:11):
All the thing where you just juxtaposition, So you show
a house, you show the deck, and then you show
a park that's two kilometers away, and that's just in
the stuff that's in the neighborhood. But do you ever,
in your heart, Steve, do you ever feel a little
bit of pang that you might be wasting people's time
so you've portrayed upon such a way.

Speaker 21 (01:12:31):
The line I do I draw the line. I mean,
my job is to guide within the industry that I work.
So if someone turns around to me as an agent
and goes, oh, can you change this? I have regularly
and still do turn around and go that's probably not
the best idea. You're opening yourself up to scrutiny and
literally those ones.

Speaker 11 (01:12:50):
My favorite one is a beautiful view.

Speaker 21 (01:12:54):
Of about from a balcony out onto say Ranguetoto Island
in Auckland, And all of a sudden you find out
that that photograph is unachievable because they've put the camera
on a selfie stick and now they've put it above
the hedge of the neighbor that you never naturally actually see.

Speaker 3 (01:13:10):
Yeah, yeah, oh.

Speaker 4 (01:13:11):
Well, thank you for your insights, Steve. Are you worried
with your with your code, you know, like with your
your you know, like one of those nights back in
the day that keep the chivalry going for a bit longer.
Are you worried that that you'll be you'll be left
behind by having your line that you won't cross?

Speaker 21 (01:13:28):
Because you know, my my job has moved from what
it was traditionally to fixing everybody's stuff ups because they
think AI is the be all and effort. And I
tell you what, I spend more of my time and
doing AI than I do doing anything else because everybody
knows what they're doing, all of a sudden.

Speaker 7 (01:13:46):
Don't they.

Speaker 4 (01:13:47):
Yeah, And suddenly you've got a property with a chimney
sitting at it sticking out of the side of the house.

Speaker 21 (01:13:53):
It's not it's not actually beyond the realm. I've had
someone not not so long ago, actually produce an image
for me which was geometrically impossible. It was like one
of those illusioned type verages because AI had actually created
something that just physically couldn't be.

Speaker 4 (01:14:08):
Thank you so much for you call, Steve. Really appreciate
your infot.

Speaker 3 (01:14:10):
Yeah, fascinating to chat with you. So what do you say, so, Steve,
he's in the business. Is that deceptive or is that
just showing a house on the best possible light? Oh,
eight hundred eighty ten eighties and number a cool nineteen
ninet it's eleven.

Speaker 1 (01:14:21):
Three Matt Heath, Taylor Adams with you as your afternoon
rolls on mad Heath and Taylor Adams afternoons used talks.

Speaker 3 (01:14:30):
That'd be afternoon. So when it comes to a iron photoshop,
where is the line when it comes to real estate photos?
I eight hundred eighty ten eighty is that number to call?

Speaker 4 (01:14:38):
This is about food? Has a burger ever looked like
the one in the photo? That's a very good point.
So if you see the advertising for any piece of food, right, Yeah,
and then you actually buy it, it looks absolutely nothing
like it. And often things like if it's a nice cream,
they'll use mashed potato. The sauces that are dribbling off
the burger aren't those sauces. They use wood varnish on

(01:15:04):
the meat to make it look nicer, you know.

Speaker 3 (01:15:07):
To shine.

Speaker 4 (01:15:07):
Yeah, well, I wonder what the rules are on that,
how far they can actually change the thing. Well, I mean,
if you're advertising on ice cream and you're using a
mashed potato this is before AI. Yeah, people are totally
falling someone, you know, generator of AI. Sure you're generating
in your image, but if you're actually using a gallop
of mashed potato, which they famously do, then that's surely

(01:15:28):
a lie. What are the rules around that?

Speaker 3 (01:15:30):
That's a great point. We'll research that because that some
people would call that deceptive. But I'll still buy a
burger even though I know it's not going to.

Speaker 4 (01:15:37):
Look like I just don't expect it to look like
it does in the aird. Yeah, but what about when
you go to a restaurant and it's normally one of
those restaurants that has an insane amount of dishes on
the menu, and they've taken the pictures their self, Yeah, themselves,
and the food looks so disgusting because it looks like
what you're going to get served.

Speaker 18 (01:15:54):
Yep.

Speaker 4 (01:15:55):
So you're looking at all the pictures.

Speaker 3 (01:15:57):
And the menu are on the wall and you're like, yah,
that's the other extreme, right, taking your caols oh one
hundred eighty ten eighty AI use in real estate photos?
How far is too far?

Speaker 1 (01:16:07):
It is seven to three, the issues that affect you
and a bit of fun along the way. Matt Heath
and Tyler Adams afternoons news talks that'd be.

Speaker 3 (01:16:17):
News talks there b How far is too far? When
it comes to aiuse in real estate photos TwixT eight
hundred and eighty ten eighty c number to call.

Speaker 4 (01:16:26):
This six says I purchased my first time over the
last six months. While viewing properties online. I saw listening,
I liked, went and checked it out the following weekend.
I realized very quickly that the photos had been photoshopped
to make the rooms look bigger. One of the bedroom's
aka broom covered had a double bed in it. What
but reality it wouldn't for a single bed. I say,
it wasn't actually a broom covert right, but it was

(01:16:46):
it was like a broom CoPant. Yeah, it wouldn't for
the sing I never went back to a listing from
this particular realty as I lost all trust. Yeah, so
that's what I'd say, is the risk that you have
there because you will lose trust. Right. But you know,
if you the Fear Trading Act of nineteen eighty six
right section nine or deceptive conduct, you cannot do anything

(01:17:10):
in trade that is likely to mislead or deceive, and
that definitely applies to this, right. But I guess what
the balance is of misleading, right? Yeah, so I would
even say to a certain extent of fish eye lenses misleading.

Speaker 3 (01:17:23):
Yeah, we're going to carry this on after three o'clock.
Really keen on your view of eight hundred and eighty
ten eighty. Where is the line when it comes to
AI use in those real estate photos? How far would
be too far for you users?

Speaker 1 (01:17:35):
Next, the big stories, the big issues, the big trends,
and everything in between. Matt Heath and Taylor Adams Afternoons
News Talk said.

Speaker 3 (01:17:46):
Be very good afternoon to you. Welcome back in the show.
It is six past three and we have been talking
about the use of AI and real estate images. So
it is becoming more common. Some critics say it can
be misleading and deceptive, but many in the real estate
industry just say it is simply marketing a house to
look as best as it can do.

Speaker 4 (01:18:07):
It's interesting because when you look at the regulations, the
real estate agent's code of conduct, right that the agent
has to look at the output first, so they have
to check it off, so they have to take responsibility
for it.

Speaker 6 (01:18:21):
Yep.

Speaker 4 (01:18:22):
So you can't just generate something and put it out
there and look, god, it's come up with that. It's
not my fault as generator. You've got to sign it off, right,
makes sense, And that's in which AI is a bit
different because people saying all real estate agents have presented
things using photoshop and before that camera angles and camera
lenses and stuff represent things differently. But when you do AI,

(01:18:44):
it can completely generate something new.

Speaker 7 (01:18:46):
Right.

Speaker 4 (01:18:46):
Yes, yeah, so that's like you know, back in the day,
it'll be like cutting out the roof of another house
and putting it on the house. That that can happen.

Speaker 11 (01:18:55):
Right.

Speaker 4 (01:18:55):
The six is, Hey, boys, love the show. If you
want to see AI misrepresentation on a mess of scale,
just jump on Tinder right see tinder is this is this,
This is the same problem as I see it. Right,
So if you massively misrepresent yourself on a dating app, right,
so you put a puture of you when you're twenty

(01:19:16):
two and you're fifty two, a puncture yep, a very
New Zealand accent of me. If your price, if you
put a picture then or you use a filter, or
you use AI or whatever to make yourself look better.
At some point, unless you're running a cat cat fish operation,
the rubber is going to.

Speaker 3 (01:19:32):
Hit the road. Yeah, the com can only last so far.

Speaker 4 (01:19:34):
Someone's going to sit down to dinner with you on
a date and go a bollocks, right, Yeah, So that's
the same thing with the house. And I guess people
are saying that with property, you don't buy off the picture, right,
So this is this is the argument for making the
property look better in the listing, right, is that no

(01:19:56):
one's going to buy off that picture, but you're trying
to advertise that you get it to that get them
along to the property, and then they have to make
a decision. Yeah, but I would say you may have
wasted their afternoon.

Speaker 3 (01:20:06):
That's right. And so when a comes to trust, I
mean would you go back to that particular real estate
agent if you felt tripped. One hundred and eighty ten
eighties the number to call get a dent Hey Fellas.

Speaker 11 (01:20:18):
Yeah, I'm I accept that my view may be a
little old skill, and I accept that.

Speaker 20 (01:20:24):
Quite a few agents might disagree with me.

Speaker 10 (01:20:26):
But my keen cents worth is this. I wouldn't use Steve.

Speaker 20 (01:20:31):
Unfortunately to sell my house, and I wouldn't want to
buy a house off.

Speaker 10 (01:20:36):
He just to use a couple of.

Speaker 20 (01:20:38):
His examples earlier on in the piece when you're speaking
earlier on later on, I agreed with what he was saying,
but he talked about if you had mass on the paint,
Oh yeah, fine, you can repaint it, so just crop
it out. And he was saying, if the lawns are
a bit dodgy, crop it out, use AI if you
want to. I couldn't agree less. We are currently selling

(01:21:00):
a house and I've had some dead lawn and I've
had to replant it, and it looks a slightly different
than the rest of the lawn. It looks a lot
better than it did. And I have checked the photos
myself that are online to make sure that it does
fairly represent it. Because I didn't want anyone unhappy with
with what the finished product actually was.

Speaker 10 (01:21:22):
You know, that's that is in my book misrepresentation.

Speaker 4 (01:21:27):
Yeah, I mean, a lawn's not an easy thing to create.
It's there's quite a lot of work.

Speaker 20 (01:21:32):
You know, I tens of hours as a pain in
the age.

Speaker 4 (01:21:37):
It's it's not just you know, the kind of lawn
that you can create using AI or photoshop or whatever,
that that is not a It's not a small thing,
you know, a beautiful green lawn.

Speaker 20 (01:21:53):
Yeah, you can't use the clack of a mouse to
change the look of a lawn.

Speaker 8 (01:21:58):
That's just wrong.

Speaker 20 (01:21:58):
You have people unhappy, and it's that's misrepresentation in my book. Look,
changing the sky to a bit bluer, that's fine because
it could be bluw on.

Speaker 10 (01:22:06):
A different day. Who hears about that? You know, that's fine.

Speaker 4 (01:22:10):
Now I've got a question for you, Dan when it
comes to lawns, because you know, when you plant a
new lawn, it has that honeymoon period where it first
comes up and it looks like the greatest lawn of
all time before the reality cocks in. You know, it
germinates and it's just beautiful for a while. I'm just
going through that board a new house. At the end
of last year, put on a new lawn and it
was amazing for a while. Now it's a disaster and

(01:22:31):
I'm trying to pull it back right weed and feed
and such. So what about you know, when you put
it on the market, you you sew in a new lawn.
Would that be within your you know, your your moral framework?
Would you be willing to do that?

Speaker 7 (01:22:46):
Dan?

Speaker 4 (01:22:47):
So you just put on a wall.

Speaker 20 (01:22:49):
A new lawn?

Speaker 19 (01:22:50):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (01:22:50):
Well you just you know what I'm what I'm saying
is like with my lawn, like you could you can
just turn over a lawn right really easily, and you
can put down if it's the right time of year,
you can put seed down and pretty quickly, in a
few weeks it will grow up and be a beautiful lawn. Meanwhile,
all the horror weeds are about to come up from
underneath and and the lawn will have Eventually reality will
check in and the lawn will become patchy and terrible

(01:23:12):
as my lorn has become. So with that, that's kind
of like actually physically not virtually augmenting your house. Would
you would you think that was okay?

Speaker 20 (01:23:24):
H Yeah, to be honest, your point slightly lost on me, slightly,
and weeds are going to come up.

Speaker 4 (01:23:32):
Yeah, you know, you know, you know, it's you know,
it's just a band aid's solution. And there's a number
of things that you can do in your house like that.
You past your putty over this, your plaster over that.
You you you know, put put some carpet over that.

Speaker 3 (01:23:44):
The cheap band aids to make it look way better
than it is.

Speaker 10 (01:23:47):
Yeah, yeah you would.

Speaker 20 (01:23:49):
Okay, Yeah, I'm happy with that as long as that
as long as the photos represent the truth.

Speaker 3 (01:23:54):
You know, what about there's a couple of marks on
the wall and you just want to nothing too bad, damn,
but you just want to sort of, you know, photoshop
those out of there. Is that too far for you? No,
you can't do it, can't do it.

Speaker 8 (01:24:05):
Okay, that's what pain for.

Speaker 4 (01:24:09):
Well, I think the thing about making it look like
the house has been freshly painters as because like I
painted my own house, but that took three weeks. Yeah
it was full on, No, No, it didn't. What I
went about three months by the time I replaced all
the weather boards and stuff. That was a huge job.
It's not And like, if you're just going click new
paint job. That's actually a big difference between the reality

(01:24:29):
of actually having to paint a house.

Speaker 10 (01:24:31):
Yeah.

Speaker 20 (01:24:31):
Yeah, Well, the analogy I can think of is if
you're selling a car, right, yeah, you take photos of
the good stuff, and I actually take photos of the
bad stuff as well, and I post them and say, look, there's.

Speaker 10 (01:24:44):
A little dent on that.

Speaker 20 (01:24:45):
Yes, war it's fine, but here it is, you know,
and so and so they know and if they want
it perfect, then they don't come and buy the car
and they don't waste my time. But but if they're
happy with a little we dent, and I've taken a
photo of it as well as all really good photos
I take, you know, post a lot and.

Speaker 4 (01:25:04):
It stops them coming back and complaining afterwards when they
find it.

Speaker 3 (01:25:06):
Yeah, yeah, exactly. What What about old photos of the property, Dan,
It's a genuine question, because this is what we were
looking at when we rented our house down in Christ Churches.
The property manager came took some photos. They looked horrible.
It was a terrible day and I see, just used
the photos we had when we bought the house, and
they said we can't do that. I didn't agree, but
what do you reckon about that? Because it's not There's
anohing AI about those photos. Maybe had a little bit

(01:25:27):
of photo shopping, but it's how it's the best the
house could look. Didn't quite look like that when we
were renting it out.

Speaker 22 (01:25:33):
Is that well?

Speaker 20 (01:25:35):
Again, I don't know what the law would say, but
if those photos do still fairly represent the property, even
though they maybe four or five years old.

Speaker 10 (01:25:45):
I wouldn't have a problem with it.

Speaker 20 (01:25:47):
If they don't represent the property, if there's no if
they don't look the same, then probably don't use them.

Speaker 6 (01:25:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:25:53):
So if I used I've got a lovely shot of
my house in nineteen twenty eight when it was the
front property of an orchard, some beautiful trees going on
though accidents the same house.

Speaker 13 (01:26:03):
Use it.

Speaker 7 (01:26:04):
Use it?

Speaker 3 (01:26:05):
Thanks for your cool, don Yeah, thank you very much.

Speaker 6 (01:26:08):
You Dan.

Speaker 3 (01:26:08):
If you say your property isn't important just to showcase
what the house actually looks like rather than using photoshop
or AI And if you're in real estate, what's your
view on this? How often do you use it? Eighte
hundred and eighty ten ags and number to call.

Speaker 4 (01:26:19):
Barbara says, Hey, guys, I spent fifteen hundred dollars having
the house washed to remove lichen and moss from the
roof and the rest of the house that wasn't necessarily
depicted in the photos. Yeah, I mean, I've just been
removing liking It's a big job. And if that was
moved by it removed by AI, it's a lot harder
to remove it in real life.

Speaker 3 (01:26:37):
It has quarter past three. His talks'd be it is
eighteen past three. So how far is too far when
it comes to doctrine photos in real estate circles.

Speaker 4 (01:26:47):
This is what I was trying to explain Dan, but
I failed terribly and confused Dan. He didn't get what
I was talking about. I blame me, not Dan. Dan
was a great caller.

Speaker 6 (01:26:54):
He was.

Speaker 4 (01:26:55):
Gavin has explained what I meant to say. On nineteen nineteen,
when we bought a house, it had a beautiful lawn
which we have come to believe was recently laid roller turf.
It took us a few months before we were able
to move in. No one was watering the turf, and
it all died When we ripped it up. The roots
were super shallow. I've never got the lawn looking as
good again.

Speaker 8 (01:27:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:27:15):
See that's dirty.

Speaker 4 (01:27:16):
So that's doctoring your house, but not using AI or photoshop.
It's just physical doctor throwing down a you know a.

Speaker 3 (01:27:26):
Yeah, yeah, that is dirty. Yeah, Joshua, how are you
this afternoon?

Speaker 7 (01:27:34):
Hither?

Speaker 22 (01:27:34):
How are you doing?

Speaker 3 (01:27:35):
I'm doing great, it's good. Now you're you're a real
estate videographer?

Speaker 11 (01:27:40):
Yes, certain.

Speaker 22 (01:27:41):
Then funny thing is like I am currently or now
I am recording a video in one.

Speaker 23 (01:27:47):
Lifting and then there's a radio here playing.

Speaker 22 (01:27:50):
Your radio station, and they heard and the somewhat felt
felt guilty to say, do use AI, but not in
a like altering side of the property.

Speaker 5 (01:28:02):
So yeah, I just want to.

Speaker 11 (01:28:04):
Make my opinion about the topic.

Speaker 3 (01:28:07):
Please do Yeah.

Speaker 22 (01:28:09):
So for me, like I use AI only for necessary
but again not for altering what's in the property. So
let's say, for an example, there's a luck burner that
doesn't have any fire, and I know it would look
really good if there's fire in it. And then I
had the previous client that they were selling land, and

(01:28:31):
then they want to show the buyers of what could
they put into the or built into that land.

Speaker 11 (01:28:39):
So like I used AI like to create a model.

Speaker 23 (01:28:43):
Of a building that they can build there.

Speaker 22 (01:28:46):
So for me, the integrity part is still the priority.
So we don't want to ruin the then the name
of the real estate agency because we lied in the video.
But when the buyer came to check the house, it's all,

(01:29:06):
it's all, it looks totally different from what we signed
the video.

Speaker 10 (01:29:11):
So still.

Speaker 22 (01:29:14):
We can use AI, but not for like totally outering
what the buyers consume the property.

Speaker 4 (01:29:21):
So Josh, when you said you use AAR in the video,
so you film it and so this is you know,
you know, in motion and there. But you can add
a flame to the fire using AI as your as
you're pinning past the fire.

Speaker 10 (01:29:36):
Right yeah yeah, yeah, yeah?

Speaker 4 (01:29:37):
And what and what about what about the day outside
the window? Would you would you make that bit of
using AI for your video? Yeah?

Speaker 22 (01:29:44):
Yeah, definitely the live things everything, like what can we
see in the video, Like we can add something into it.
The people in the living room. I can put like
like moving people, like drinking wine. I can add yea
from from the video it took.

Speaker 4 (01:30:06):
Yeah right, well, I mean that's not just just saving
because you know most people are going to drink wine
in the house when they move in there. What about
making rooms look larger than they are and things like that.

Speaker 23 (01:30:17):
Joshua, mm hmm, Well, I can actually do it, but
I choose not to.

Speaker 22 (01:30:25):
Again, the integrity part would play here and then plus
like it would definitely backfire. I know that it would
definitely backfire to us when the buyer or the prospect
buyer would see the property.

Speaker 4 (01:30:39):
Right, So, you sound like you take a lot of
pride in your work. How long would it take you
to film and put together a video of a house, Joshua, Well.

Speaker 22 (01:30:49):
With the real ethic agency that I'm like, I'm doing
the video for them, we have an agreement that like
less than four days right for me to give the
final deliverables.

Speaker 4 (01:31:04):
And you're putting up a drone. Yep, drone changed, that's
changed everything. The drone shots are incredible.

Speaker 22 (01:31:13):
And drone is like it's very important because uh like
I fly the drone overhead like and then I drove
the borderline whereas until where is the the boundary of
the property.

Speaker 4 (01:31:27):
That it sounds like quite a fun and creative job,
Joshua putting together one of these videos.

Speaker 22 (01:31:35):
Yeah, doing something that makes you happy, and the perk
is still you are earning some money you get.

Speaker 4 (01:31:44):
On your Joshua. And what about the videos we've got
the real estate agents introducing the house standing at the front.
Sometimes I want to sing a song or do a
little bit of a you know, the pol Sometimes I
want to put a bit of flair into the videos.
Do you if you do that stuff?

Speaker 22 (01:31:59):
Yeah, but most of the real estate agents they don't
want to do that. But what we do with my
client now is we do the storytelling type, Like the
real estate agent is narrating everything while I flash. I
am flashing those key selling points from the story that

(01:32:20):
he's saying.

Speaker 3 (01:32:21):
Yeah, and then you put some library music on it
and whila, yes beautiful, you're artist.

Speaker 4 (01:32:28):
Well, hey, well, thank you. It's so good to for
you to ring in while you're in the midst of
doing your job. And we'll let you get back to it.
And thanks so much for you call Joshua.

Speaker 11 (01:32:36):
Thank you very much.

Speaker 3 (01:32:37):
Thank you. That's a man that enjoys his job and
sounds very good at that. What a great cool Oh
one hundred eighty and eighty. So, if you're in real estate,
how often do you utilize AI in your marketing? And
where is the line.

Speaker 4 (01:32:49):
Josh was good integrity? He's an artist?

Speaker 3 (01:32:51):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. It is twenty four past three, Big virtually.

Speaker 1 (01:32:57):
Matt Heath and Tyler Adams afternoons call oh eight hundred
eighty ten eighty on Youth Talk ZB.

Speaker 3 (01:33:03):
Twenty six past three. We're talking about aiuse and real
estate photos. How far is too far?

Speaker 4 (01:33:08):
The sexes? Don't people inspect houses themselves anymore? Peter, So,
do you think that it's morally okay to represent a
house because people are going to come around and see
that you've misrepresented it? But haven't they wasted their whole
afternoon or morning or whatever time when they come around
to the open home and they look at it. Although
someone just point out that nowadays people will look at

(01:33:30):
the listing and then immediately here we go. Any serious
house buyers are checking Google Maps, geomaps, floodplanes, flood zones
and if you have connections KAO housing in the area.
For example, I really liked the place, but then it
was surrounded four deep by KO housing. My connections said
there was pages of one one one calls to the

(01:33:52):
houses on that street. So before that's an interesting point.
There's technology means that you can do so many such
a much bigger investigation of the house, and of course
you would right as soon as you see the list absolutely,
I mean in a way mentioning it toll Ryan techs
that it, but you do immediately google street it, right.

Speaker 3 (01:34:12):
Yeah, yeah, before you go and then you see the property, yes,
and you go, hang on a minute, where's the area?
How far is that that park that they've posted photos of.
Oh it's seven streets down. But yeah, you do a
bit of a wreki before you go there.

Speaker 4 (01:34:24):
But I still think that there's something wrong with you know,
a few listenings about getting someone to round your house.
Often that is, as you said before, Tyler, about showing
the person that's your clients that you've got all these
people through your house. Yeah, and so you sort of
I mean, I don't know if this is right or not,
but it looks good for you the agent if there's

(01:34:46):
more people have gone through the house, right, even if
those people are coming through and going hang on a minute,
this is a shit ole.

Speaker 3 (01:34:51):
Yeah, diffinitely, Because they can show the coilet client a
couple more ticks coming through a nine two nine two.

Speaker 4 (01:34:56):
This person wants to take it right back. Forget about AI,
forget about photoshop. Fish eye cameras should be absolutely outlawed.
Completely false depiction of a space.

Speaker 3 (01:35:04):
So common.

Speaker 4 (01:35:06):
But once you've started looking at houses for a while,
you ask the question, why is this taken with a
fish eye? But as one part of your mind want
to like it, and you see it and you got
this as a fishye, But it looks okay and you
get excited about it, and then when you go round
to the house. I guess maybe you can fall in

(01:35:26):
love with it once you're there, even though it's like
a shoe box. I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:35:31):
Yeah, what do you say? Oh, one hundred and eighty
ten eighty is that number to call if you want
to send a tex nine two niney two headlines with
Raylen coming up?

Speaker 16 (01:35:39):
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Download your Ride today.

Speaker 16 (01:35:47):
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(01:36:08):
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(01:36:29):
their character. Otigo Sea Lions are on track to re
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(01:36:52):
fit into Dave Reni's plans. Read the full column at
inzidherld dot co dot enzend back to Matt Eath and
Tyler Adams.

Speaker 3 (01:36:59):
Thank you very much, Relay, I'm spinning tax I'll beat you.

Speaker 4 (01:37:05):
The great New Zealanders at Regency Plumbing and putting in
a bathroom at my house us and they've obviously misread
the plans because they've put a a nest. This is
AI generated. I'm assuming it's not out, but it looks
like they're full of put a full spar poor and so.

Speaker 3 (01:37:18):
You just turn around. And so if we look at that,
that's some good work by their mate. That's I mean,
I don't know about the placement of that.

Speaker 4 (01:37:27):
I'm sure I'm assuming that they're listening to this.

Speaker 22 (01:37:29):
P S.

Speaker 4 (01:37:30):
It's a great that's how quick.

Speaker 3 (01:37:32):
That is well played from those boys, Very well played.

Speaker 4 (01:37:36):
Now I've tried to use their trick on me. Pete
from Regency blooming struck on me, and I've sent it
that picture to Tracy and I said, they've gone and
bloody put a spa in? Did you tell them to
do that? I'm not paying for that.

Speaker 3 (01:37:50):
Yes, we're going to find out what a response is.
That is very good, mate, very good rights. That's exactly
what we're talking about AI. When it comes to real
estate images.

Speaker 4 (01:38:01):
This text has been sent verbally. Okay, so thanks. So
that's a warning on this text that it might not
make sense right when you seen it through your Apple
car play or whatever. As a responsible real estate agent,
the only photoshop I will ever deal with sky and
photoshop a bin out. I don't believe you should photoshop
grass to make it look green, because how on earth

(01:38:22):
do you know it's gonna mirror? Grass is going to
go there. At the end of the day, this is
the bit where it was seen verbally, it just comes
back on you that the buyer camp can come and
they're disappointed, and you do not want that from your
buyers to think, gosh, this is actually similar to what
was online, and you need to get them excited about

(01:38:43):
the listing. And if you photoshop the wrong thing, they
certainly won't be excited and they'll actually be put off.
So this is not doing your vendor a favor.

Speaker 3 (01:38:53):
There you go, nicely read.

Speaker 4 (01:38:54):
It was actually quite goodribally sent text I reckon that was.

Speaker 3 (01:39:00):
That's what you need in life.

Speaker 4 (01:39:02):
Made ninety cents. Don Welcome to the show.

Speaker 19 (01:39:06):
Yeah hello. I retired from real estate well before and
AI AI came into existence. But photoshop has been around
for a long time, so we've always had the ability
to doctor photos. And the only thing I've been guilty
of is putting a blue sky in the place when

(01:39:27):
it was filmed on labor carst day. I've I've been
very tempted when I had a property with the ceview
and power lines in front of us, but no, it's
definitely no go to do anything like that. You'd better
remember that a lot of buyers, well, not a lot,
but some buyers buy a place virtually sight and see.

(01:39:49):
Some are buying from overseas, not as many as they
is to be. And you've had a responsibility of those
buyers who represent the property as it should be. And
anything less than that and you'll be up before the
red esat a tribienal.

Speaker 4 (01:40:06):
Are you seeing more properties when you look at listings
now that seem like they've been doctored more than you
would have felt comfortable with in your day.

Speaker 19 (01:40:13):
Don Now, I'm not selling real estate. I shut the
door and I don't even put in the real estate there. Right,
I get the hair all delivered. That's the first part
part that goes on the bed. Right.

Speaker 4 (01:40:26):
So do you remember when people started blue skying? Was
that when photoshop first came in, because it would have
been a bit of a rig Well, I mean you
could have done it in the past. You'd a had
to cut out a picture of the sky and place
it over the top and photocopy it. Audiben, No, Well,
I I saw.

Speaker 19 (01:40:43):
Real estate for twenty years, going back to about the
year two thousand and it was photoshop was really it
was really available then? Yeah, So it's been around a
long time.

Speaker 3 (01:40:53):
So what about grass? Don you know, because grass comes
up a lot in the story and with our callers
that if you've got a lawn there. The argument there
is you're presenting what could be a possibility. It's not
outside the realms that if you do a little bit
of work you can have a beautiful, lush lawn. There
you think there's going too.

Speaker 19 (01:41:08):
Far, that's the misrepresentation. Yeah, it's a lot of money
than ready lawn. I wouldn't even give it a second thought.

Speaker 4 (01:41:17):
What about pumping up the paint job on photoshop so
you just make it a little but you know, you
could change the colors a little bit so you can't
see that it's a bit worse for wear.

Speaker 19 (01:41:27):
I wouldn't even do that.

Speaker 3 (01:41:32):
Surely, if it's got a fireplace and it's not on
just chucking a nice wee flaming, there is all good done.

Speaker 19 (01:41:43):
That's that's that's not too umful. But I would still
wouldn't do it.

Speaker 4 (01:41:48):
Okay, final question for you, don for shy lenses to
make a room look bigger than it is, larger than
it is.

Speaker 7 (01:41:57):
Yeah, that's.

Speaker 19 (01:41:59):
I've probably been guilty of that, not intentionally, but my
photographer has done it. Yeah, and a lot of them
do appear that way, and it's a common complaint.

Speaker 3 (01:42:07):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean to me, Don, that is
more egregious than the lawn. I can deal with the
law when I turn up and say I hang on
a minute, Okay, maybe I can do something about that,
But the fish eye lands. I can't make a room bigger,
you know what I mean?

Speaker 19 (01:42:21):
Yeah, that's right. No, that's a very common one. And
if I was aware of it when it was taken,
I certainly wouldn't go ahead with.

Speaker 4 (01:42:28):
This was a good proficient you're retired now, Don, but
was it a profession that you enjoyed being a real
estate agent? Happy with it?

Speaker 5 (01:42:35):
I'm glad.

Speaker 19 (01:42:36):
I really loved it. I worked for the most incredible
real estate company, the most incredible boss. I love the
people I work, but I love the people I came
into contact with. It was a great twenty years.

Speaker 3 (01:42:49):
No good on you, Don, yeh.

Speaker 4 (01:42:51):
And it sounds like you were an honorable real estate
agent and you live with the moral code and respect that. Don,
Thanks for your cool.

Speaker 3 (01:42:58):
Yeah, what a great man. O eight one hundred and
eighty ten eighty. If you're in the real estate game yourself?
Are you like don that you know altering the sky
situation of it a rainy day two to blue sky
might be as far as you go. And for people
who are looking or in the market for buying a
home at the moment, where do you draw the line?
Do you get upsets when you turn up to a
home and some of the photos have been doctored and

(01:43:18):
you realize it's just not the same in reality? Nine
two ninety two is the text? It is twenty one
to four back for surely have a chat with the
lads on eight eighty ten eighty Matt Heathon Tyler Adams
afternoons used talk, Sa'd be eighteen to four. So doctoring
photos and real estates circles is that? Okay? Where is

(01:43:39):
the line? One hundred and eighty ten eighty.

Speaker 4 (01:43:41):
Hi, guys, the neighbor over the road is selling and
when he has an open Hony Wheels has beans beans
his bins over to my side of the street because
he doesn't have a good spot to put them at
his place that looks tidy. This is also a misrepresentation.
I've got no issues with AI as people take the
mickey already. What about when you pay off the gang

(01:44:01):
members next door, the with some beers to not be there.

Speaker 3 (01:44:06):
Someone in this office has done that to work out
for them.

Speaker 4 (01:44:09):
Don't be here when the open homes ending.

Speaker 3 (01:44:14):
Get a Peter, Hey, you done, good mate. So you're
a real estate agent.

Speaker 7 (01:44:19):
Yes, so I've been going since ninety six, so I've
sort of been through the whole journey of you know,
dos to windows to seeing the whole thing one into
the other.

Speaker 4 (01:44:29):
Really well, you'd have seen some capital gamer gains over
your time, Peter, Yeah, I have.

Speaker 7 (01:44:35):
And plenty of stories about the real estate markets topped
out and we'll never go up again, and next minute
there it is. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:44:41):
So what's what's your line around photoshop and well now
into moving into AI and the representation of a property
and listings.

Speaker 7 (01:44:51):
Yep. So I try and run a really careful business
because I hate dramas, so I don't want to be sued.
I don't want any of that sky's you know, is
obviously something that can change and become what it is
in the photoshopping, no issue with that hand on heart.
Like if there's a picture HOWK on the wall, I'll
photoshop it out because it's not a damaged wall. But

(01:45:11):
I'll get rid of it so it looks a bit better.
Things like lawns is commonplace. But the theory with photoshopping
and a lawn as you write on it that this
is this has been photoshopped, so you say it accurately.

Speaker 4 (01:45:23):
Right, So how where do you write on it? Like
actually on the pitfield? Do you write digitally enhanced at
the bottom?

Speaker 7 (01:45:30):
Yeah? On the picture, yeah, at the bottom, And things
like you know, the Avon River, which you might have
a riverside property, or you want to say, hey, there's
river walks and you've got to foto the river, but
you say there that the river is so many meters
and can't be viewed from the house. Not hard to
say that in the photograph. So as long as you're
declaring accuracy, there isn't really a big issue around that

(01:45:52):
because it's crystal clear. I know that, you know, out
of twenty agents, one of them is going to push
the rules, and that's revolting in the industry and really
annoying and it's not helpful. And there's a lot of
ad writing and AI that goes on nowadays with real
estate agents, and I think they miss an opportunity when

(01:46:14):
I when I start doing.

Speaker 4 (01:46:15):
That, the AI slop in the in the in the writing.
I think that's a problem.

Speaker 7 (01:46:21):
Well, the way I look at it is ad space
is incredibly important, useful space. So if you start being
lazy or you think AI can do better than you, well,
you know, this is your opportunity to hook a buyer
and write something that connects the dots for that house
to that buyer. And so here's your big chance. And
if you're not writing the ad carefully to try and
do that, you're not really doing your job, because that's

(01:46:42):
probably one of the bigger parts of your job.

Speaker 4 (01:46:44):
Yeah, now, maybe you can explain something to me, because
this was an assumption I made. If you're selling the house,
the vendor wants to see that a lot of people
have come through the house. So is there any motivation
from a real estate agent maybe to make the house
look better such as people come to the open home
even though you know that the slight augmentation of the

(01:47:05):
house means that they will never buy it. Do you
see what I'm saying, Peter, Yeah, I.

Speaker 7 (01:47:10):
Just think I just said to the chap on the
phone before got on. You know, if you if you
start doing your backwards before you started. You know, you've
gone backwards as soon as it's like the date thing.
If I was and I'm not going to but if
I time to believe turning up to a Tinder date
and it looked photoshop, I wouldn't even like the personality,
let alone the face.

Speaker 3 (01:47:29):
If I like it, that's a good point.

Speaker 7 (01:47:31):
So you're further back and maybe I could have liked you,
but you know now I don't.

Speaker 4 (01:47:37):
Yeah, that's a really good point. That's a really good
point because because not only you're disappointed with the face,
you disappointed that person, but the person, the person would
be willing to try and deceive you. You're like, well,
what else.

Speaker 3 (01:47:47):
Are they going to try and to see you with
bad first impression?

Speaker 7 (01:47:49):
And that's that going backwards with the agent before you start,
because everything you're representing from that point is untrustworthy, a
skeptical questioning. You're just in a bad position, so misrepresentation.
There's a saying under the sorry, under what is my sack?
It's basically over deliver, underpromise, over delivered. If you if

(01:48:13):
you go with that, someone's going to feel better about
the house. It's greater than they expected. If you over
expose it and underdeliver disappointed, like it's just the wrong
vibe and it never works out.

Speaker 3 (01:48:26):
So for you, Peter, the line is so photoshop's okay,
as long as that's a blue sky, a little bit
of lighting, and that's the line for you. Nothing more.

Speaker 4 (01:48:34):
A few blettishes on the walls.

Speaker 7 (01:48:38):
Well, yeah, a few, but we're not blemishes. Just you know,
photohooks are fine because I mean, at the end of
the day, you have a photo on them. Whereas you know,
if you if you, if you're starting to get too
much away from the house, they're going to turn up.
They're going to be disappointed. I don't want it. It's
not good for the seller, it's not good for the buyer,
and it makes you look like an idiot.

Speaker 4 (01:48:57):
There is a weird feeling, Peter, when you buy a house.
And this is another issue, but the staging, right, and
just incredible staging being done in the house. And then
when you first get the keys and you go back
into the house and the staging's gone. It's quite a
weird experience because the house only what's that.

Speaker 7 (01:49:15):
It's called life. That's life, that's that's just like.

Speaker 4 (01:49:23):
Stuff.

Speaker 3 (01:49:25):
Yeah, Mary and.

Speaker 7 (01:49:27):
Albert live in the house and you go through and
they move it out and there's you know, feat being
on the carpet and water, and it's just it happens
whether they're living in it or it's stage. That's just life.
But staging is essential because if you don't have it,
the rooms look smaller, and actually it misrepresents the house
without furniture as well.

Speaker 4 (01:49:46):
To be fair, the most amazing thing I've just had
my kitchen. My kitchen is being replaced at the moment,
and all the kitchen was removed, all the cabinets yesterday
and then without the cabinetcy I know what you're saying, Peter.
The kitchen suddenly looks tiny without all the stuff, which
is odd. It doesn't quite make sense because you imagined
with more stuff in it would look smaller. But when
you take everything out.

Speaker 7 (01:50:05):
Exactly right. When you build a house and you first
see the concrete pad, you nearly weat your pants because
it looks tiny.

Speaker 3 (01:50:10):
Yeah yeah, yeah, And then you.

Speaker 7 (01:50:12):
Put the frame up and looks huge. The jib goes
on at s Frank's. It's just so you know, it's
even that guy's comments about I wouldn't use a fish
eye lens, well, I definitely would have fund photographing a bathroom,
otherwise I'll only get the shore cabinet it because you
need to be able to show the room. So there's
a point of reference where you actually do have to
be able to photograph something and show it off. But

(01:50:34):
then there's another version where you're so far shy and
it's perverted and it's just a bit of social responsibility.

Speaker 6 (01:50:40):
Really.

Speaker 4 (01:50:40):
Yeah, well you sound like an honorable real estate agent
and think of you. Call Peter.

Speaker 7 (01:50:44):
I've done my best. Yeah, just to comment on you,
you guys, I love listening to the Afternoon. I like
your sarcasm, your pessimism, your hilarity. You're really funny to
listen to you. So I really appreciate it.

Speaker 4 (01:50:56):
I like you even more now.

Speaker 3 (01:50:57):
Yeah, you know you rang any time, Peter. Thank you mate.
He's a little bit of a touch up on us.
He definitely does.

Speaker 4 (01:51:06):
And made us better than we stay.

Speaker 3 (01:51:08):
Yeah, I like it aging for us, Thanks Peter, Yeah,
thank you very much. O. One hundred and eighty ten
eighty set number two call back very shortly.

Speaker 1 (01:51:15):
It is ten to four the big stories, the big issues,
to the big trends and everything in between. Matt Heath
and Tyler Adams afternoons news talks, that be.

Speaker 3 (01:51:26):
News books, there beaters eight to four. Get a Randall.
We've got about a couple of minutes before the news.
That's us.

Speaker 8 (01:51:31):
How are you?

Speaker 23 (01:51:33):
I'm very well, thank you.

Speaker 3 (01:51:34):
Now you're in real estate as well, So what's your
thoughts on AI photo shopping doctor in the photos.

Speaker 23 (01:51:40):
I'm not a real estate agent.

Speaker 24 (01:51:41):
I'm a building inspector, so I provide that service pre
purchase or pre sale building inspections or aka the builders report,
either for purchases or for bias. I just wanted to

(01:52:02):
highly recommend to either party purchaser or vendor to yet
a really good, high quality building a report before you
put your property on the.

Speaker 23 (01:52:15):
Market, or from the purchases side when you're looking to
buy property.

Speaker 3 (01:52:21):
Yeah, that's I mean, it's an important your b you do, Randall,
But I think most people would undertake that surely before purchasing.

Speaker 24 (01:52:29):
Right, Well, I think most do now, yeah, yeah, pretty
fifty percent of my business now is for vendors actually,
so we help them to.

Speaker 23 (01:52:40):
Understand their property conditions and.

Speaker 24 (01:52:44):
Perhaps make some improvements before they hit the market, which
is which is also important.

Speaker 4 (01:52:49):
You know, interesting thing randal is when you're getting a
renovation done, even though you've had a building report, you
do find some crazy stuff in the walls and when
once once once the once the flooring in the there
and an apply what's been pulled back?

Speaker 3 (01:53:01):
The secrets coming in?

Speaker 4 (01:53:02):
Demons in the wall. Some absolute cowboy from the nineteen
fifties decided to have some war because he's had another
five kids or something.

Speaker 24 (01:53:13):
If you, yeah, you might find some some uncontented or
unpermitted work hidden in there somewhere.

Speaker 23 (01:53:18):
But yeah, yeah, anyway, interesting, I thought you. I thought
it was just worth a mention.

Speaker 4 (01:53:25):
Yeah, good on your Yeah, and it's a good thing
to mind. Yeah, get a randal in there. To get
a randal in there, if you're a vendor or your house, yeah,
good on your mate.

Speaker 3 (01:53:34):
Cheers, you do some good work, Thank you very much.
A couple of quick text before we're out of here.
Giday guys, please ask one of those nice real estate
agents why it's so expensive to sellar house in New Zealand.

Speaker 19 (01:53:45):
Well, I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:53:46):
That's another topic and this one, get guys. I see
a lot of AI photos on many websites, including real estates.
I mean, travel and accommodation is a common one, so
I don't actually see anything wrong with it. It's just
another type of marketing I have.

Speaker 4 (01:54:03):
I might have brushed up my profile picks on Tinder.
I hope prospective buyers to it's the point when they
met me. That's from Elie.

Speaker 3 (01:54:10):
Good on you for being hones stally. Let us know
how you go with those two states.

Speaker 7 (01:54:14):
All right.

Speaker 4 (01:54:14):
That brings us the end of another show. Thank you
so much for listening. Thanks for all your calls and
texts over the last four hours. The Great and Powerful
hithertoop of cilings up next, and after five hither talks
with the hitd of Massy Universities Journalism School about if
news talks, he had been made the right decision and
not running the Mikey Schumann story and the ethics of
media reporting.

Speaker 3 (01:54:33):
On themselves interesting.

Speaker 4 (01:54:35):
I would have run the story if i'd known it, Tyler,
me too. We didn't know it.

Speaker 3 (01:54:38):
That's why we didn't run it. We didn't even know.

Speaker 4 (01:54:40):
We weren't allowed to run it because we didn't know it. Anyway,
Right now, Tyler, my good friend, why am I playing
this reasonably? Punishing the catchy song by Starship from nineteen
eighty five?

Speaker 3 (01:54:51):
We built this City. It's because we had a good
hour and a half ninety minutes of great talk back
about tradees versus university degrees, who hairs most prestige? Correct
it again, mate, got it? It was only two choices today.

Speaker 4 (01:55:07):
So this is widely con that the worst lyrics ever
written for a rock song, which is odd because they
are written by Elton John's genius lyric writer. Bernie Topin writes.

Speaker 5 (01:55:16):
Did you know that?

Speaker 3 (01:55:17):
Okay?

Speaker 4 (01:55:17):
Anyway, we'll be back live from midday tomorrow. Until then,
give them a taste of Kiwi from us. You've seen busy,
We'll let you go

Speaker 1 (01:55:56):
For more from News Talks at b Listen live on
air or online, and keep our shows with you wherever
you go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio

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