A law change paving the way for digital driver licenses has passed its third and final reading in Parliament.
The law previously only allowed for physical licenses.
Associate Transport Minister James Meager says work to introduce digital licenses is now underway - and explained to the Afternoons team how these changes will be implemented.
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
You're listening to a podcast from NEWSTALKZB follow this and
our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
It's a quarter past one, So Parliament is now past
legislation allowing digital licenses to become a legal alternative to
physical cards. What will this all mean with us now
is Associate Minister of Transport James Mega, very good afternoon, Minister.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
Good afternoon, Gorish.
Speaker 4 (00:31):
So for people that are just hearing about this now,
what exactly changes for drivers? And when will this happen?
Speaker 3 (00:38):
So you won't see any change overnight that the law
that we pass ues today is the framework for allowing
digital driver's licenses to be a valid form of license
in New Zealand. The weird thing is that we actually
already legally accept digital licenses from other jurisdictions if they're
valid in their country. So for example, if you've got
say a new South of Walest driver's license and you've
(00:59):
got it on the app on your phone, you can
use that legally here we can't do it for our own.
So the lower passy today sets up the framework the
actual work around developing the driver's license technology and which
apps can use it and how it's going to be
all implemented will come later on and we're working on
that over the next few months. And actually it's already
been worked on, but people won't see a change straight away.
(01:21):
And the important thing to remember is that you will
still have access to your physical license. There's no intention
for it to be one or the other. There will
be a choice you can make and actually you'll be
able to have both if you really want to.
Speaker 4 (01:32):
So would this be on the I've only just found
out this app exists actually today, So would it be
on your GUVT dot nz app?
Speaker 3 (01:41):
I think that would be the long term intention, that
it would be a smart thing if there is a
government app to put it in the wallet in that app.
Other countries do other things like where you can actually
have it in the app or the wallet on the
phone itself, so you know how you can put your
bank cards in the wallet or tickets in the wallet.
You can double click and it comes up on the
side of your iPhone where you seem something or whatever
(02:01):
it might be. That might be another option. That's the
kind of stuff that the officials and the public will
work through over the next week. While as to how
is the best way to display it but the ultimate
thing is that you know, we changed a few years back,
a couple of decades back, we had paper licenses, then
we went to the sort of the card with your
photo on it, and now it's just digitizing that process.
It's all just sort of part of modernizing modernizing them.
Speaker 4 (02:23):
So on this dot nz app right now, I'm looking
at the wallet says add digital ideas, licenses and certificates
ready when you need them. You're in control of what
gets shared and when add to your wallet. But there's
just a bunch of holes. There's nothing to add yet.
So it's all set up ready to go pretty much.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
Basically, and the officials are working with providers from other
jurisdictions to see how they do it. What's the best
way to do it. That would be an obvious place
to have your driver's license in there, but for those
people who don't necessarily want to download that particular app,
it could be that the driver's license can be fed
straight through to your digital wallet on your phone itself,
(03:04):
or another way. It might be a browser based system.
We've got to think about what's the best way to
make sure people can access it, but also not that
you know it can be a million different acts that
you can put it on or a screenshot or something
like that that doesn't have the security and privacy standards
that we would expect from a digital driver's license, because
ultimately you want to be able to do the thing
as well. Where you know, if you're out at the
(03:26):
club at two o'clock in the morning and you're getting
IDs obviously as you still are, Yeah, you want to
you want to be how to go to the bouncer
and maybe just tap the end of your phone together
with the with the bouncer, have it give you the
blue tick and have you go through without having to
tell him you're at your name, your address, your location,
all that kind of stuff. That's the kind of privacy
(03:47):
enhancing stuff that might be able to happen with this.
Speaker 4 (03:50):
And then then either way I'll get collared like that
kid in Lincoln.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
Going to help you on the street.
Speaker 4 (03:55):
What about what about you know, the police pull you over,
the obvious question is your phone's plant?
Speaker 3 (04:02):
Mmm, Well, it'd be a very unique situation if you
you happen to be the one person who had a
flat phone at the time where the police pulled driver.
The good thing about this is bad, Yeah, would very bad. Like, well,
there's two things. One is that you could always carry
your physical license with you. And I've had the same
thing where you know, I travel a lot for work,
(04:23):
my license off and sits in my wallet, which sometimes
will sit in my truck because that's the only thing
I drive. I get to a rental company and I
don't have my license with me, so I can't use it.
So you'll have the option to continue to hold your
physical license if there's a pretty good reason I would
imagine that you can't display or give them your electronic
version of it. They have access to those databases and
(04:44):
there will be flexibility and good reasons as to why
you can't show it. And of course there always could
be the opportunity for the particular cop to maybe say, hey,
why don't we give you a bit of a charge
in my car for the next five minutes you can
pull it up and on your way. So there'll be
a lot of flexibility on that, and we understand there's
a bit of range anxiety out there, but hopefully we
can go through those issues.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
We're getting a few takes coming through minutes to pushing
back on this idea, and it's usually the same sort
of thing that they'll worryorried about the increasing digitalization of
these sort of documents. What do you say to them,
because I know, obviously under this legislation you don't have
to have your license in digital form. You can have
a physical copy. But is there you know, some truth
to their point that more and more of these things
(05:24):
are becoming digital when some people don't want to be
so much in that world.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
Yeah, look it's fair. And you know, you get this
with ID all the time as well, because most of
us use our driver's license as proof of age or
proof of ID or you know, actually the driver's license
is the thing that tells the country that you're actually
licensed to drive. It just so happens to also authorize
your age and other things and your identification. So if
you're not a driver or you don't have your driver's license,
(05:50):
you can get stuck sometimes as to how you can
offer ID to government agencies or to banks. So actually
having this kind of thing on your phone might be
a helpful thing to happen. But also, yeah, people are
concerned about driving everything digitally and driving everything online, and
we're a wary of that, and so that's why we
maintain the ability to keep physical licenses if you choose
(06:11):
to do so. I actually think most people, and it'll
be across all ages, will shift pretty quickly to digital licenses.
We've done it with our bank cards, we've done it
with other kinds of ID. I think it'll just be
such a thing of convenience that we'll use it without
second thought, bearing in mind that if we do that,
and when we do that, we'll have to put pretty
(06:31):
high privacy standards in place, so make sure that the
information that's being collected is actually protected really well as well.
We don't want identity theft. But in a way, it
should be harder for someone to pinch your phone and
use your ID than it would be for them to
pinch your wallet and use your idea out of your wallet.
Speaker 4 (06:47):
I guess there is sort of a You know, we're
already dangerously addicted to our phones, and this makes that
phone even more essential, doesn't empowering those nasty big tech
companies even more to sell their other crap around around.
You know you've got your license, You've got to have
your phone. There's no way you can leave the house
without it. And I know you're saying that you can
(07:09):
have a physical license and that's never going away, sort
of making that commitment. But can you kind of see
that idea that it sort of empowers the people that
are creating this terrible addiction across our society.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
It's a fair criticism. I mean, I am attached to
my phone far more than I would like to be. Ultimately,
it's a sort of affliction that it's part of most
of our jobs and part of most of our lives
these days. I think we've actually done quite a good
amount of work to separate that from young kids, to
make sure that you know, we don't just have phones
as an extension of our body. But the reality is
(07:45):
that most of what we do is carried on our
phones these days. I was actually I've got a colleague
who's departing our office and he's heading into the world
of finance, and we wanted to get him a calculator
as a leaving gift. Well, it's hard to find a
calculator around the office because everyone looks at you sideways
and sees, here's a calculator on your phone. So yeah,
I know that I want a physical calculator to give
(08:08):
them as a gift, because you obviously going to need
us when he goes on. So but you know, tortures
radios listen to you guys. You know we don't carry
around transits to radios with us anymore. We basically listen
to you through the streaming service. Everything's on our phone.
So part of it is a reflection that that's the
way the world is hitting. That's not to say we
don't have we have to go sort of hardn't want
(08:29):
to say something I can't say the radio but full
steam ahead into it, and that we can't have some
sort of sense of relaxation and reality about it. But
ultimately we use our phones a lot. This will make
it easier for a lot of people, and if you
don't want to use it, you don't have to.
Speaker 4 (08:43):
Now I'm trying to get my head around this one. Finally,
we're also hearing about digital warrants of fitness and registrations.
How would that work? So not displaying it on your
window anymore? Would that mean scanning of number plates? How
would that work?
Speaker 3 (08:58):
So same concept. Right, everyone knows that when you get
your reio, it's sent you in the mail and you
are legally required to put that flimsy bit of paper
in the front of your window, and ultimately when you
do that, you're probably scavenging around to try and remove
ten years worth of stickers and wedge that one annoying
bit of paper into the little flimsy plastic sleeve. So
always saying is that we're going to remove the requirement
(09:20):
to display that. So if you don't display that properly
at the moment, you could be hit with a tony
dollar fine, despite the fact that you're already rejoded and
licensing and you're up to speed with everything. So we're
going to take away the requirement for it. Parking offices
and police officers already have access to the digital information,
so they don't actually rely on that chap as to
whether or not you are licensed or warranted. They will
(09:42):
actually check the system themselves, but of course it's a
helpful indication to them. So again for people who want
to keep that bit of paper in their window as
maybe a reminder of when they're rejostu or their warrants due,
they can do that. But we're not going to make
it a legal requirement anymore for you to have that.
So you're not going to get pained because the sticker
(10:03):
was late in the mail. And you didn't put it
up in time. And the same thing is is also
mztase out about sixteen million dollars worth of notices in
the post. We're actually going to let them email those
to you now and I can figure of better things
that's been that sixteen million dollars on.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
It's not a bad saving. Minister. Thank you very much
for your time this afternoon. Really appreciate your insight and
we'll catch up again soon.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
There is God good talk to you guys.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
That is James Me, Associate Minister of Transport. So what
do you say you've heard what the minister involved in
this legislation had to say? Does this still worry you?
Will you go digital driver's license or you always have
your physical on you? Nine two nine two is the
text that is twenty five past one.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
For more from News Talk sed B, listen live on
air or online and keep our shows with you wherever
you go with our podcasts on Irradio
You're listening to a podcast from NEWSTALKZB follow this and
our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
It's a quarter past one, So Parliament is now past
legislation allowing digital licenses to become a legal alternative to
physical cards. What will this all mean with us now
is Associate Minister of Transport James Mega, very good afternoon, Minister.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
Good afternoon, Gorish.
Speaker 4 (00:31):
So for people that are just hearing about this now,
what exactly changes for drivers? And when will this happen?
Speaker 3 (00:38):
So you won't see any change overnight that the law
that we pass ues today is the framework for allowing
digital driver's licenses to be a valid form of license
in New Zealand. The weird thing is that we actually
already legally accept digital licenses from other jurisdictions if they're
valid in their country. So for example, if you've got
say a new South of Walest driver's license and you've
(00:59):
got it on the app on your phone, you can
use that legally here we can't do it for our own.
So the lower passy today sets up the framework the
actual work around developing the driver's license technology and which
apps can use it and how it's going to be
all implemented will come later on and we're working on
that over the next few months. And actually it's already
been worked on, but people won't see a change straight away.
(01:21):
And the important thing to remember is that you will
still have access to your physical license. There's no intention
for it to be one or the other. There will
be a choice you can make and actually you'll be
able to have both if you really want to.
Speaker 4 (01:32):
So would this be on the I've only just found
out this app exists actually today, So would it be
on your GUVT dot nz app?
Speaker 3 (01:41):
I think that would be the long term intention, that
it would be a smart thing if there is a
government app to put it in the wallet in that app.
Other countries do other things like where you can actually
have it in the app or the wallet on the
phone itself, so you know how you can put your
bank cards in the wallet or tickets in the wallet.
You can double click and it comes up on the
side of your iPhone where you seem something or whatever
(02:01):
it might be. That might be another option. That's the
kind of stuff that the officials and the public will
work through over the next week. While as to how
is the best way to display it but the ultimate
thing is that you know, we changed a few years back,
a couple of decades back, we had paper licenses, then
we went to the sort of the card with your
photo on it, and now it's just digitizing that process.
It's all just sort of part of modernizing modernizing them.
Speaker 4 (02:23):
So on this dot nz app right now, I'm looking
at the wallet says add digital ideas, licenses and certificates
ready when you need them. You're in control of what
gets shared and when add to your wallet. But there's
just a bunch of holes. There's nothing to add yet.
So it's all set up ready to go pretty much.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
Basically, and the officials are working with providers from other
jurisdictions to see how they do it. What's the best
way to do it. That would be an obvious place
to have your driver's license in there, but for those
people who don't necessarily want to download that particular app,
it could be that the driver's license can be fed
straight through to your digital wallet on your phone itself,
(03:04):
or another way. It might be a browser based system.
We've got to think about what's the best way to
make sure people can access it, but also not that
you know it can be a million different acts that
you can put it on or a screenshot or something
like that that doesn't have the security and privacy standards
that we would expect from a digital driver's license, because
ultimately you want to be able to do the thing
as well. Where you know, if you're out at the
(03:26):
club at two o'clock in the morning and you're getting
IDs obviously as you still are, Yeah, you want to
you want to be how to go to the bouncer
and maybe just tap the end of your phone together
with the with the bouncer, have it give you the
blue tick and have you go through without having to
tell him you're at your name, your address, your location,
all that kind of stuff. That's the kind of privacy
(03:47):
enhancing stuff that might be able to happen with this.
Speaker 4 (03:50):
And then then either way I'll get collared like that
kid in Lincoln.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
Going to help you on the street.
Speaker 4 (03:55):
What about what about you know, the police pull you over,
the obvious question is your phone's plant?
Speaker 3 (04:02):
Mmm, Well, it'd be a very unique situation if you
you happen to be the one person who had a
flat phone at the time where the police pulled driver.
The good thing about this is bad, Yeah, would very bad. Like, well,
there's two things. One is that you could always carry
your physical license with you. And I've had the same
thing where you know, I travel a lot for work,
(04:23):
my license off and sits in my wallet, which sometimes
will sit in my truck because that's the only thing
I drive. I get to a rental company and I
don't have my license with me, so I can't use it.
So you'll have the option to continue to hold your
physical license if there's a pretty good reason I would
imagine that you can't display or give them your electronic
version of it. They have access to those databases and
(04:44):
there will be flexibility and good reasons as to why
you can't show it. And of course there always could
be the opportunity for the particular cop to maybe say, hey,
why don't we give you a bit of a charge
in my car for the next five minutes you can
pull it up and on your way. So there'll be
a lot of flexibility on that, and we understand there's
a bit of range anxiety out there, but hopefully we
can go through those issues.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
We're getting a few takes coming through minutes to pushing
back on this idea, and it's usually the same sort
of thing that they'll worryorried about the increasing digitalization of
these sort of documents. What do you say to them,
because I know, obviously under this legislation you don't have
to have your license in digital form. You can have
a physical copy. But is there you know, some truth
to their point that more and more of these things
(05:24):
are becoming digital when some people don't want to be
so much in that world.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
Yeah, look it's fair. And you know, you get this
with ID all the time as well, because most of
us use our driver's license as proof of age or
proof of ID or you know, actually the driver's license
is the thing that tells the country that you're actually
licensed to drive. It just so happens to also authorize
your age and other things and your identification. So if
you're not a driver or you don't have your driver's license,
(05:50):
you can get stuck sometimes as to how you can
offer ID to government agencies or to banks. So actually
having this kind of thing on your phone might be
a helpful thing to happen. But also, yeah, people are
concerned about driving everything digitally and driving everything online, and
we're a wary of that, and so that's why we
maintain the ability to keep physical licenses if you choose
(06:11):
to do so. I actually think most people, and it'll
be across all ages, will shift pretty quickly to digital licenses.
We've done it with our bank cards, we've done it
with other kinds of ID. I think it'll just be
such a thing of convenience that we'll use it without
second thought, bearing in mind that if we do that,
and when we do that, we'll have to put pretty
(06:31):
high privacy standards in place, so make sure that the
information that's being collected is actually protected really well as well.
We don't want identity theft. But in a way, it
should be harder for someone to pinch your phone and
use your ID than it would be for them to
pinch your wallet and use your idea out of your wallet.
Speaker 4 (06:47):
I guess there is sort of a You know, we're
already dangerously addicted to our phones, and this makes that
phone even more essential, doesn't empowering those nasty big tech
companies even more to sell their other crap around around.
You know you've got your license, You've got to have
your phone. There's no way you can leave the house
without it. And I know you're saying that you can
(07:09):
have a physical license and that's never going away, sort
of making that commitment. But can you kind of see
that idea that it sort of empowers the people that
are creating this terrible addiction across our society.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
It's a fair criticism. I mean, I am attached to
my phone far more than I would like to be. Ultimately,
it's a sort of affliction that it's part of most
of our jobs and part of most of our lives
these days. I think we've actually done quite a good
amount of work to separate that from young kids, to
make sure that you know, we don't just have phones
as an extension of our body. But the reality is
(07:45):
that most of what we do is carried on our
phones these days. I was actually I've got a colleague
who's departing our office and he's heading into the world
of finance, and we wanted to get him a calculator
as a leaving gift. Well, it's hard to find a
calculator around the office because everyone looks at you sideways
and sees, here's a calculator on your phone. So yeah,
I know that I want a physical calculator to give
(08:08):
them as a gift, because you obviously going to need
us when he goes on. So but you know, tortures
radios listen to you guys. You know we don't carry
around transits to radios with us anymore. We basically listen
to you through the streaming service. Everything's on our phone.
So part of it is a reflection that that's the
way the world is hitting. That's not to say we
don't have we have to go sort of hardn't want
(08:29):
to say something I can't say the radio but full
steam ahead into it, and that we can't have some
sort of sense of relaxation and reality about it. But
ultimately we use our phones a lot. This will make
it easier for a lot of people, and if you
don't want to use it, you don't have to.
Speaker 4 (08:43):
Now I'm trying to get my head around this one. Finally,
we're also hearing about digital warrants of fitness and registrations.
How would that work? So not displaying it on your
window anymore? Would that mean scanning of number plates? How
would that work?
Speaker 3 (08:58):
So same concept. Right, everyone knows that when you get
your reio, it's sent you in the mail and you
are legally required to put that flimsy bit of paper
in the front of your window, and ultimately when you
do that, you're probably scavenging around to try and remove
ten years worth of stickers and wedge that one annoying
bit of paper into the little flimsy plastic sleeve. So
always saying is that we're going to remove the requirement
(09:20):
to display that. So if you don't display that properly
at the moment, you could be hit with a tony
dollar fine, despite the fact that you're already rejoded and
licensing and you're up to speed with everything. So we're
going to take away the requirement for it. Parking offices
and police officers already have access to the digital information,
so they don't actually rely on that chap as to
whether or not you are licensed or warranted. They will
(09:42):
actually check the system themselves, but of course it's a
helpful indication to them. So again for people who want
to keep that bit of paper in their window as
maybe a reminder of when they're rejostu or their warrants due,
they can do that. But we're not going to make
it a legal requirement anymore for you to have that.
So you're not going to get pained because the sticker
(10:03):
was late in the mail. And you didn't put it
up in time. And the same thing is is also
mztase out about sixteen million dollars worth of notices in
the post. We're actually going to let them email those
to you now and I can figure of better things
that's been that sixteen million dollars on.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
It's not a bad saving. Minister. Thank you very much
for your time this afternoon. Really appreciate your insight and
we'll catch up again soon.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
There is God good talk to you guys.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
That is James Me, Associate Minister of Transport. So what
do you say you've heard what the minister involved in
this legislation had to say? Does this still worry you?
Will you go digital driver's license or you always have
your physical on you? Nine two nine two is the
text that is twenty five past one.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
For more from News Talk sed B, listen live on
air or online and keep our shows with you wherever
you go with our podcasts on Irradio
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