Sarah Helm: NZ Drug Foundation executive director on the calls to legalise cocaine from Columbia

 Colombian President Gustavo Petro made headlines all over the world after claiming cocaine was 'no worse than whisky' during a live broadcast of a government meeting.

During a six-hour ministerial meeting – broadcast live for the first time ever – the President also suggested  the global cocaine industry could be 'easily dismantled' if the drug were legalised worldwide.

Sarah Helm from the NZ Drug Foundation joined the Afternoons team to explain why President Petro may have felt the need to bring this up - citing the death toll caused by the region's war on cocaine and other drugs. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:09):
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Speaker 2 (00:17):
There be good discussion. And to tie this in a
bow is New Zealand Drug Foundation Executive Director Sarah Helm. Sarah,
very good to chat with you this afternoon, Koy, how
you going good?

Speaker 1 (00:29):
Thanks? What do you think of the Colombian president's claims
that cocaine is no worse than whiskey?

Speaker 3 (00:34):
Yeah, look, I don't know about you, but whiskey has
never done me any favous. I think, Look, Cisley, Columbia
has a totally different context from us. They have you know,
some figures put it over half a million people have
died from the war on cocaine and drugs there, and

(00:55):
you know, a plant coca that a lot of their
indigenous people would consered sacred with the small husband banned
from the war on drugs, and they're desperately trying in
that war on drugs in Columbia. So I think that's
in a very different context that he's making those comments.
And certainly history would tell us that there have been economic, political,

(01:19):
and cultural reasons as to how various substances have been
treated by legislation and laws that don't necessarily stack up
to the level of harm or help us address harm.
So yeah, I think there is some truth, but also
important context and what he's saying, Yeah, I'm saying, But Sarah,
what if we did bring it back home to New Zealand.

Speaker 1 (01:41):
What do you think about decriminalization of cocaine and New
Zealand on balance? Do you think that would be more
harm or less harm than the situation we've got now?

Speaker 3 (01:51):
Oh yeah, I think it all depends on how these
things are done. So legislation and say, take alcohol, for example,
our legislative framework is so permissive that we've got you know,
kind of too much alcohol and society causing quite a
lot of m So in our context, it's absolutely undeniable

(02:12):
that alcohol causes the most harm in New Zealand overall,
and partly because it's just really available, but also because
it's got so many you know, a range of harm.
So if you think about it, things like harm to
yourself over a period of time, cancer, heart disease going on, wait,
then harmed to other people, violent offending, car accidents and

(02:34):
family violence and all that kind of stuff. So there's
a lot in alcohol. But they're both substances that can
be addictive and can and do cause harm, so really
important points.

Speaker 1 (02:47):
So Sarah, we're talking to see Helman from the New
Zealand Drug Foundation. Do you what do you what do
you think cocaine use because the stats say that it's
it's doubling. What do you think cocaine use is increasing
so much in New Zealand? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (03:04):
Look at has I mean historically we've barely had any
cocaine what most people will be aware of. It's been
limited to a very small group of Auckland is primarily
getting their hands on it, and therefore it's got a
bit of a glamorous reputation, but actually there are some
harms with that. And the increase in supply is basically

(03:26):
internationally the product producers of cocaine have become much more
efficient at producing cocaine, so the production levels have gone up.
I think it was like thirty percent in one year alone.
So we've seen a glot of it and therefore it
then pushed into markets where it hasn't really been before.

Speaker 1 (03:46):
That is it true that New Zealand has targeted for
cocaine sales because it's so profitable selling it here because
it's you know, it's more expensive to buy it here.
You can charge more.

Speaker 3 (03:59):
Yeah, probably, yes, Sana, I think the prices come down.
I think it's actually competitive or even cheaper them. We've
been better man from memory at the moment, so the
prices actually come down. But definitely some of the substances
have included attracts a higher price here. And as one
of the reasons, there are some specific arms with cocaine

(04:20):
that people should be aware.

Speaker 2 (04:21):
I know you've done some surveys. The Drug Foundation is
done survey on cocaine usage within the country and the
wastewater testing. But is it far more prevalent than most
people would realize.

Speaker 3 (04:32):
No, it's still only a small percentage of people, so,
you know drug use. Overall, almost every New Zealanders tried alcohol.
Many most New Zealanders continue to use alcohol regularly. Most
New Zealanders have tried cannabis. A smaller percentage go want
and use it regularly and with a sort of MDMA cocaine,

(04:55):
which that's quite different from MDMA in some ways. But
that's a smaller group. So it's only a few percent
that use that in any one year. But a bigger
percentage have actually tried, so it's not completely unusual to
use it either.

Speaker 1 (05:12):
Cocaine usage. Yeah, so cocaine use in terms of the
things that the drug use in New Zealanders worry about
or need to worry about, as near the bottom of
the pile, sort.

Speaker 3 (05:23):
Of, I do. I mean, we are witnessing quite a
significant growth in our cocaine consumption, and I think we
can't ignore that. I don't. I think that trend we're
expecting to continue unless we do something about it. So,
and it does have some harms with it. For example,
one then people might not be aware of is that

(05:45):
it has a very specific compulsive readosing effects. So you know,
when you finish a drink, you can't want another one
because your glass is empty with cocaine they've tested on
wrapped and they just keep wanting to take it because
there's actually this additional phenomenon in your body where you
just really want more.

Speaker 2 (06:02):
Yeah, fascinating stuff. Sarah, Thank you very much for joining
us on the program to have a chat. Interesting discussion.

Speaker 1 (06:08):
Certainly was for more from News Talk set B listen
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