The Resource Management Act is officially bound for the scrapheap.
The Government's replacing the hefty legislation with two new laws - one based around planning, and the other on the environment.
ACT MP and Under-secretary for RMA reform and Infrastructure Simon Court told Matt and Tyler that the government is focusing on simplifying the process for councils and Kiwis to get consents on building projects.
'you want to do some land development, you want to do some clearing, as long as you follow these standards, you won't have to ask for consent'
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
You're listening to a podcast from Newstalk zed B. Follow
this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
The government says it's makeover of the Resource Management Act
is a once in a generation cheft. The overhall has
two new bills that slash some rules, reduces a need
for many consents, and speeds some up. Joining us now
on the phones is Simon Court, Act MP and Under
Secretary for RMA Reform Simon. Very good afternoon to you.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
Good afternoon, Tyler.
Speaker 4 (00:37):
It's Matt as well, Simon. How are you?
Speaker 3 (00:40):
Oh Matt, how are you?
Speaker 4 (00:41):
Very good? I didn't want to be forgotten. Hey, and
look beer with us because we're just looking through this
right now. But from what I can understand, you're cutting
consent and permit numbers by forty six percent. So what
are the key things people will now be able to
do on their property or in their businesses without needing consent.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Well, I've experienced this firsthand, Matt, as a civil engineer
for nearly twenty five years, I've had to get consents.
I've had to get private plan changes through. I had
to explain to planners over and over, you know how
you manage it? Works so that the celt doesn't end
up in the stream and so trucks don't end up
tracking mud out on the road. By the time you've
done this a dozen times, and then imagine that around
(01:22):
the country, key wes have done this thousands and thousands
of times over you. So why are we still explaining
the same thing to planners when we already know how
to manage these affects. Well, So what we're doing in
the system, as we're simplifying, we're going to introduce national
standards for common activity is going to have far fewer plans.
But your question around how do we make sure we've
(01:43):
got fewer consents? How do we know riccually asking the
planning system to do less? We've slimmed the scope right down.
The old roma was all around sustainable management, you know,
these kind of concepts that came out of the nineteen eighties,
the UN sustainable Development goals, It was all vibes back then.
We've just said simply what do we need to manage
to protect the environment and what do we need to
(02:04):
manage so as a private property owner, you can do
more with your land. So we're going to have far
fewer plans fewer rules, national standards that say, look, you
want to do some land development, you want to do
some clearing. As long as you follow these standards, you
won't have to ask for consent. And that's one of
the ways we're going to reduce a number of consents
demanded from say forty plus thousand a year down to
(02:26):
around twenty thousand a year in the new system.
Speaker 4 (02:29):
So practically, just on a personal level, I putting in
a non suite bathroom, the concents are quite punishing. Will
this help me with that?
Speaker 3 (02:36):
Well, if you've got a heritage house right now, in fact,
the councilor might have rules about what you're allowed to
do with the inside of your house. And so in
the new system, we're going to say, look, the inside
of your property is no longer something that councils and
the resource management system is going to be looking at.
If the effects are only on you, then there's no
need for rules around that and consents required. You know,
(02:59):
for things about which way your front door faces, the
color of your front door, the internal layout of your home.
All of those things are currently able to be litigated
is through the RMA. In the new system, they.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Won't be right could be good news for you, Matt,
So just explain to us the idea of this regulatory
relief provision. How does that going to work? Is that effectively,
if a person's property is negatively affected by council planning decisions,
they may be able to claim relief from that council.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
That's right, and this as an act MP in a
champion of property rights, I'm so proud of the regulatory
relief measures in this legislation. We've heard from farmers and
property owners around the country that council officers pick up
the felter and they start coloring in maps with sensitive
natural areas and heritage overlays and cultural overlays, and they
(03:52):
don't really face the costs of their decisions. Because if
you're a private property owner, and I spoke to a
woman up in the Mochi near tai Happy a few
months ago, seventy percent of farm had been painted over
with sensitive natural areas or outstanding landscapes. Look, it is
a beautiful property, but there's only half a dozen people
ever see it in a given year, and a few
(04:14):
farmers who drive past every day. But what it meant
was a huge loss in value, the ability to develop
that property. Even to put in a fence or cut
a track would have needed a resource consent. So in
the new system, if councils want to do that, firstly,
there's going to be a much higher thresholder. It's going
to have to be truly significant or outstanding, not just
reckons from a council officer with a clipboard. And if
(04:36):
they do insist that they want to apply these controls
to someone's property, they're going to have to offer them
either a rates relief, a cash grant, or it could
be something simpler that doesn't actually cost a council any money,
such as biodiversity credits or the ability to develop another
part of that property in a much more intensive way.
So we don't want to force a whole lot of
cost on councils, but we want to force the cost
(04:58):
of making these decisions that harm private property owners. We
want to force them to face those decisions.
Speaker 4 (05:05):
You begin at a pushback on this, though, what you
simon from environmental groups and heritage.
Speaker 3 (05:10):
Groups, Well, that's not what we've heard, mat because what
they do like is that a separate piece of legislation
and Natural Environment Bill we're introducing next week will say look,
we need to set environmental limits and around the country,
whether it's fresh water or a biodiversity, those people doing
(05:31):
development need to meet those limits. We've got a transparent
way of setting the limits. We're not going to have
every council to a choose your own adventure about water quality.
A lot of the stuff is going to be standardized.
We want it to be simple, and we want it
to be introduced and implemented within the next couple of years.
So I think from an environmental NGO point of view,
(05:51):
we're actually hearing that they're generally supportive of the direction
of this reform, which.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
Is happening something that will be music to a lot
of people's ears. I think simon is the public participation rights.
They're being narrowed to affected parties. So effectively, if you
want to put up a new fence or put up
a new tree, the only people who can jump on
board on the submission process are your next door neighbors.
No longer people up and down the country saying we're
worried about the flight path of birds. It's just going
(06:16):
to be the next door neighbors who can make submissions.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
Yeah, that's right. When it comes to the Planning bill
that's absolutely clear that only those who are directly affected,
like neighbors, and who are affected in a way that
is more than minor will get to be notified. And
that's quite different from the current system, where obviously sometimes
council planners will say, oh, well, we're not sure who's affected,
(06:40):
we're going to publicly notify it. I mean, that's a
horrific thing to hear if you're trying to build a
home or do a development, because it basically means that
instead of negotiating with a few neighbors about effects, all
of a sudden, every Tom, Dick and Harry can pile in.
And you know, we've seen that with the Wanaka McDonald's.
Who've seen that with the t row Starbucks. You know,
these are people who just want to run a franchise.
(07:02):
You know, kiwis like you and I trying to get ahead,
who want to employ people. And yet you've got all
kinds of groups from Health New Zealand or Save New
Zealand from overpriced iced coffees piling in and saying that
you shouldn't be allowed to do it. Burn a new system,
we're raising the threshold in terms of what effects are
(07:23):
considered by the system and also really narrowing who can object.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
And roughly how much you're expected to save with the
government to save through this process. Simon, I've just looked
at some numbers here, but it's roughly about three point
one billion dollars a.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
Year potentially aiming to all the projections we've seen that
we can increase GDP by over half of percent a
year between now and twenty fifty, which is a huge
return to New Zealand and the billions of dollars a
year of extra economic activity. But we're also have identified
(07:59):
over thirteen billion dollars in savings to not just government
but also the key we who have to apply for
all of these consents. So that's going to have a
cerial impact on bottom line, but it's also going to
just free people up to build the things that Kiwis want.
We want warm, dry homes and places that are close
to where we live, close to where we play and work.
(08:22):
You know. We want decent roads that can be built
in a decent time frame and not held up for
years and years and years with kind of random or
reltigating environmental issues that can be quite simply dealt with.
So look, great savings, great economic opportunities. And as a
civil engineer who's battled the resource management system for over
twenty five nearly twenty five years before I was elected
(08:44):
to Parliament in twenty twenty, I'm really proud of what
we've achieved. Here today we're.
Speaker 4 (08:48):
Talking to Simon Court, ACTMP and Under Secretary for RMA Reform.
Here's a text for you. My worry is that cowboys
will rule supreme.
Speaker 3 (08:59):
What do you say to that, Well, look, I'd love
for cowboys to be able to roam the prairie of
New Zealand without having to worry about council officers with
clipboards coming and telling them you can't ride there. It's
a sensitive natural area. We've got to find this balance right.
New Zealanders love the environment that we live and that's
(09:19):
why people choose to move to places that are like
places like Titangi, where I used to live in the
bush or near the bush. We want to protect those things.
We've already got ways to protect them with covenants under
say the q E two covenants for sensitive natural environments.
People do that voluntarily, so there's plenty of protection for
(09:40):
the natural environment. In the Natural Environment Bill and I
would encourage your listeners those who want to make a
submission to do that through the parliamentary process. That'll be
through Environment Committee, and I understand submissions will open towards
the end of next week once we've read those bills
in the House for the first time.
Speaker 4 (09:56):
So best case scenario for you, when will this all happen.
Speaker 3 (10:01):
We're going to get these two pieces of legislation, a
new Planning Bill a new Natural Environment Bill passed by
the middle of next year. Parallel, we're going to be
delivering what's called the National Direction Package and National Standards
for planning because we can't have the current over one
one hundred different zones across sixty seven councils. In the
(10:22):
new system, we're going to standardize which zones councils can
pick from. They're not going to be doing choose your
own adventure when it comes to planning their cities. So
all of these things, National Direction, national standards have to
flow on very quickly. Next year. Councils will be doing
their new plans under the new system in twenty twenty seven.
We aim to have the whole thing wrapped up within
three years. By twenty twenty nine, fully implemented, so we
(10:45):
are going gangbusters. It's pedal to the metal, quite a
different approach to the previous governments ten years to implement stuff,
and it was going to be more complicated, So I'm
confident we can get there. Chris Boship and I are
are going to continue to keep an eye on the
stuff and make sure that it's delivered in the way
we anticipate.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
There are some significant changes and Simon, you go big afternoon,
A hit of you, no doubt, but really appreciate you
coming on and discussing.
Speaker 3 (11:12):
Thanks Tyler, Thanks Matt.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
That is Simon Courts, under Secretary for the RMA reform
and also act MP. There'll be plenty more to come
on that as the afternoon progresses.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
For more from News Talk set B listen live on
air or online, and keep our shows with you wherever
you go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to a podcast from Newstalk zed B. Follow
this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
The government says it's makeover of the Resource Management Act
is a once in a generation cheft. The overhall has
two new bills that slash some rules, reduces a need
for many consents, and speeds some up. Joining us now
on the phones is Simon Court, Act MP and Under
Secretary for RMA Reform Simon. Very good afternoon to you.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
Good afternoon, Tyler.
Speaker 4 (00:37):
It's Matt as well, Simon. How are you?
Speaker 3 (00:40):
Oh Matt, how are you?
Speaker 4 (00:41):
Very good? I didn't want to be forgotten. Hey, and
look beer with us because we're just looking through this
right now. But from what I can understand, you're cutting
consent and permit numbers by forty six percent. So what
are the key things people will now be able to
do on their property or in their businesses without needing consent.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Well, I've experienced this firsthand, Matt, as a civil engineer
for nearly twenty five years, I've had to get consents.
I've had to get private plan changes through. I had
to explain to planners over and over, you know how
you manage it? Works so that the celt doesn't end
up in the stream and so trucks don't end up
tracking mud out on the road. By the time you've
done this a dozen times, and then imagine that around
(01:22):
the country, key wes have done this thousands and thousands
of times over you. So why are we still explaining
the same thing to planners when we already know how
to manage these affects. Well, So what we're doing in
the system, as we're simplifying, we're going to introduce national
standards for common activity is going to have far fewer plans.
But your question around how do we make sure we've
(01:43):
got fewer consents? How do we know riccually asking the
planning system to do less? We've slimmed the scope right down.
The old roma was all around sustainable management, you know,
these kind of concepts that came out of the nineteen eighties,
the UN sustainable Development goals, It was all vibes back then.
We've just said simply what do we need to manage
to protect the environment and what do we need to
(02:04):
manage so as a private property owner, you can do
more with your land. So we're going to have far
fewer plans fewer rules, national standards that say, look, you
want to do some land development, you want to do
some clearing. As long as you follow these standards, you
won't have to ask for consent. And that's one of
the ways we're going to reduce a number of consents
demanded from say forty plus thousand a year down to
(02:26):
around twenty thousand a year in the new system.
Speaker 4 (02:29):
So practically, just on a personal level, I putting in
a non suite bathroom, the concents are quite punishing. Will
this help me with that?
Speaker 3 (02:36):
Well, if you've got a heritage house right now, in fact,
the councilor might have rules about what you're allowed to
do with the inside of your house. And so in
the new system, we're going to say, look, the inside
of your property is no longer something that councils and
the resource management system is going to be looking at.
If the effects are only on you, then there's no
need for rules around that and consents required. You know,
(02:59):
for things about which way your front door faces, the
color of your front door, the internal layout of your home.
All of those things are currently able to be litigated
is through the RMA. In the new system, they.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Won't be right could be good news for you, Matt,
So just explain to us the idea of this regulatory
relief provision. How does that going to work? Is that effectively,
if a person's property is negatively affected by council planning decisions,
they may be able to claim relief from that council.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
That's right, and this as an act MP in a
champion of property rights, I'm so proud of the regulatory
relief measures in this legislation. We've heard from farmers and
property owners around the country that council officers pick up
the felter and they start coloring in maps with sensitive
natural areas and heritage overlays and cultural overlays, and they
(03:52):
don't really face the costs of their decisions. Because if
you're a private property owner, and I spoke to a
woman up in the Mochi near tai Happy a few
months ago, seventy percent of farm had been painted over
with sensitive natural areas or outstanding landscapes. Look, it is
a beautiful property, but there's only half a dozen people
ever see it in a given year, and a few
(04:14):
farmers who drive past every day. But what it meant
was a huge loss in value, the ability to develop
that property. Even to put in a fence or cut
a track would have needed a resource consent. So in
the new system, if councils want to do that, firstly,
there's going to be a much higher thresholder. It's going
to have to be truly significant or outstanding, not just
reckons from a council officer with a clipboard. And if
(04:36):
they do insist that they want to apply these controls
to someone's property, they're going to have to offer them
either a rates relief, a cash grant, or it could
be something simpler that doesn't actually cost a council any money,
such as biodiversity credits or the ability to develop another
part of that property in a much more intensive way.
So we don't want to force a whole lot of
cost on councils, but we want to force the cost
(04:58):
of making these decisions that harm private property owners. We
want to force them to face those decisions.
Speaker 4 (05:05):
You begin at a pushback on this, though, what you
simon from environmental groups and heritage.
Speaker 3 (05:10):
Groups, Well, that's not what we've heard, mat because what
they do like is that a separate piece of legislation
and Natural Environment Bill we're introducing next week will say look,
we need to set environmental limits and around the country,
whether it's fresh water or a biodiversity, those people doing
(05:31):
development need to meet those limits. We've got a transparent
way of setting the limits. We're not going to have
every council to a choose your own adventure about water quality.
A lot of the stuff is going to be standardized.
We want it to be simple, and we want it
to be introduced and implemented within the next couple of years.
So I think from an environmental NGO point of view,
(05:51):
we're actually hearing that they're generally supportive of the direction
of this reform, which.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
Is happening something that will be music to a lot
of people's ears. I think simon is the public participation rights.
They're being narrowed to affected parties. So effectively, if you
want to put up a new fence or put up
a new tree, the only people who can jump on
board on the submission process are your next door neighbors.
No longer people up and down the country saying we're
worried about the flight path of birds. It's just going
(06:16):
to be the next door neighbors who can make submissions.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
Yeah, that's right. When it comes to the Planning bill
that's absolutely clear that only those who are directly affected,
like neighbors, and who are affected in a way that
is more than minor will get to be notified. And
that's quite different from the current system, where obviously sometimes
council planners will say, oh, well, we're not sure who's affected,
(06:40):
we're going to publicly notify it. I mean, that's a
horrific thing to hear if you're trying to build a
home or do a development, because it basically means that
instead of negotiating with a few neighbors about effects, all
of a sudden, every Tom, Dick and Harry can pile in.
And you know, we've seen that with the Wanaka McDonald's.
Who've seen that with the t row Starbucks. You know,
these are people who just want to run a franchise.
(07:02):
You know, kiwis like you and I trying to get ahead,
who want to employ people. And yet you've got all
kinds of groups from Health New Zealand or Save New
Zealand from overpriced iced coffees piling in and saying that
you shouldn't be allowed to do it. Burn a new system,
we're raising the threshold in terms of what effects are
(07:23):
considered by the system and also really narrowing who can object.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
And roughly how much you're expected to save with the
government to save through this process. Simon, I've just looked
at some numbers here, but it's roughly about three point
one billion dollars a.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
Year potentially aiming to all the projections we've seen that
we can increase GDP by over half of percent a
year between now and twenty fifty, which is a huge
return to New Zealand and the billions of dollars a
year of extra economic activity. But we're also have identified
(07:59):
over thirteen billion dollars in savings to not just government
but also the key we who have to apply for
all of these consents. So that's going to have a
cerial impact on bottom line, but it's also going to
just free people up to build the things that Kiwis want.
We want warm, dry homes and places that are close
to where we live, close to where we play and work.
(08:22):
You know. We want decent roads that can be built
in a decent time frame and not held up for
years and years and years with kind of random or
reltigating environmental issues that can be quite simply dealt with.
So look, great savings, great economic opportunities. And as a
civil engineer who's battled the resource management system for over
twenty five nearly twenty five years before I was elected
(08:44):
to Parliament in twenty twenty, I'm really proud of what
we've achieved. Here today we're.
Speaker 4 (08:48):
Talking to Simon Court, ACTMP and Under Secretary for RMA Reform.
Here's a text for you. My worry is that cowboys
will rule supreme.
Speaker 3 (08:59):
What do you say to that, Well, look, I'd love
for cowboys to be able to roam the prairie of
New Zealand without having to worry about council officers with
clipboards coming and telling them you can't ride there. It's
a sensitive natural area. We've got to find this balance right.
New Zealanders love the environment that we live and that's
(09:19):
why people choose to move to places that are like
places like Titangi, where I used to live in the
bush or near the bush. We want to protect those things.
We've already got ways to protect them with covenants under
say the q E two covenants for sensitive natural environments.
People do that voluntarily, so there's plenty of protection for
(09:40):
the natural environment. In the Natural Environment Bill and I
would encourage your listeners those who want to make a
submission to do that through the parliamentary process. That'll be
through Environment Committee, and I understand submissions will open towards
the end of next week once we've read those bills
in the House for the first time.
Speaker 4 (09:56):
So best case scenario for you, when will this all happen.
Speaker 3 (10:01):
We're going to get these two pieces of legislation, a
new Planning Bill a new Natural Environment Bill passed by
the middle of next year. Parallel, we're going to be
delivering what's called the National Direction Package and National Standards
for planning because we can't have the current over one
one hundred different zones across sixty seven councils. In the
(10:22):
new system, we're going to standardize which zones councils can
pick from. They're not going to be doing choose your
own adventure when it comes to planning their cities. So
all of these things, National Direction, national standards have to
flow on very quickly. Next year. Councils will be doing
their new plans under the new system in twenty twenty seven.
We aim to have the whole thing wrapped up within
three years. By twenty twenty nine, fully implemented, so we
(10:45):
are going gangbusters. It's pedal to the metal, quite a
different approach to the previous governments ten years to implement stuff,
and it was going to be more complicated, So I'm
confident we can get there. Chris Boship and I are
are going to continue to keep an eye on the
stuff and make sure that it's delivered in the way
we anticipate.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
There are some significant changes and Simon, you go big afternoon,
A hit of you, no doubt, but really appreciate you
coming on and discussing.
Speaker 3 (11:12):
Thanks Tyler, Thanks Matt.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
That is Simon Courts, under Secretary for the RMA reform
and also act MP. There'll be plenty more to come
on that as the afternoon progresses.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
For more from News Talk set B listen live on
air or online, and keep our shows with you wherever
you go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio.
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