June 23, 2026 • 45 mins
This week on On The Front Foot, Bryan Waddle and Jeremy Coney were joined by TMS commentator Daniel Norcross and Peter Holland to assess the Oval test and look ahead to the one at Trent Bridge.
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
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Speaker 2 (00:20):
Take it on at it is out, the Test is over,
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Speaker 3 (00:31):
Here he goes. This delivery has in the usage to go.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
On the Front Foot with Brian Waddell and Jeremy Coney
powered by News Talks Dead B at iHeart Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Hello back with on the Front Foot. It's a bit
rich Lord Botham criticizing dropped England captain Ben Stokes for
breaking its team kofy. So he doesn't see how to
justify what happened. Yeah, perhaps you could look back in
history for old Ian Botham. It's this series with England
squared with one to play. That's exciting and the White
(01:10):
Ferns well, their hopes are alive. Just I've got Scotland
at England to play. What is it going to lead
to that? A little bit later on the front foot.
But a test match, a test series, had a Test game,
Jeremy Coney. That was quality cricket from the new Zilders.
(01:30):
They fought back well and outplayed England, didn't they?
Speaker 4 (01:34):
Yes, simply more reliable wads, very solid through the match.
I was a wee bit disappointed with the way they
got out in the first inning some of the players,
but they got partnerships through and I think the key
part in the match almost was that second morning when
England came out again and used a short ball and
(01:57):
New Zealand through Phillips who had had it was a
terrific innings from Phillips that whole session at the end
of first day. It was quite commanding, you know, watching him.
Don't often see a modern player trying not to hit
the ball, and yet he was able to get underneath
(02:19):
the ball in various ways of archer. That cost England
because then the physiotherapist the next morning said Archie, you
can't bowl after those eight overs of short pitched bowling.
So we had physios calling the bowling changes and then
from them to go on with Jamison. I mean that
(02:40):
was fabulous and so it was three ninety one. A
bit of gst in there perhaps, but New Zealand had
the two top innings was in the match. New Zealand
got the two hundreds in the match and New Zealand
had Henry in.
Speaker 5 (02:55):
The match and that was enoughty to secure the win.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Yeah, that's the interesting point that you talk about. Henry
was man of the match and eleven wickets deserve it.
That's a great performance. Our case had to be made
for Phillips because I thought that was a gutsy display
archers bowling, to my mind in cricket terms, was evil.
That was the firiest spell I've seen for some time
(03:21):
from a quickie.
Speaker 4 (03:23):
Yeah, eight overs of it too. He kept on going
and he was very accurate, very accurate, and yet underneath
Nichols went and kept on too. He was not going
to play a pull shot or a hook shot. So
it was a great encounter between those two and Phillips
won it, and so he was able to carry on
(03:44):
a very important innings for him and for the side,
and to be able to get that, you know, three
ninety just pushed it beyond England really and New Zealand
cleverly bowled O'Rourke and Jamison mainly from the Pavilion end.
They thought there was more bounce from that end, and
then they bowled a skiddier bowl as Smith and Henry
(04:05):
from the Vauxhall end and that proved I think the
very good decision from Latham or whoever made it.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
It was very effective that period of play when Archer
was at his peak and Phillips was batting. The way
was to me is the is the story of Test
cricket that puts Test cricket way beyond any other form
of the game, doesn't it to be able to watch
that confrontation skills of players being used, And as you say,
(04:38):
Phillips won because Archie didn't get.
Speaker 4 (04:40):
A wicket right and he showed no little skill in
going under some of those deliveries. All Right, it might
have looked a bit awkward, and some people even had
a bit of a giggle on the occasion, but boy,
you're right it was. It was cricket for real, proper cricket.
Two guys not giving in, and that's those are the
(05:04):
sort of encounters you like to see, and it's the
only format that you will see that sort of thing happening.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
And you know, you've got to also give some credit to,
in fact, a lot of credit to Henry Nichols. I'm
Kane Williamson's replacement. Hey oh, it's like the days of
Willie Watson coming in as replacement for Richard Hadley. There's
no replacement for players of that quality. But yet Nichols
did everything you wanted him to do.
Speaker 4 (05:32):
Yeah, he got a twenty odd in the first innings.
Took his time, but there were little signs that he
was starting to back himself and gain some confidence, I
think from that first and he batted for quite a
number of balls before he was bold. And then in
that second innings he hung in there and as England
(05:53):
set those very short set fields, some strange fields sets
short shortcover, short mid off, short mid on short mid
wicket and he just punched the ball through. He and
the were a partnership between Nichols and Ravendra that next
day was able to push New Zealand. Ravendra playing the big,
(06:13):
classical sort of strokes that were eye catching, but Nichols too,
don't forget. Even against the spinner, Vessel was able to
knock him over the top a few times and he
just punched the ball or steered the ball and was
getting boundaries because those fielders were in quite close. So
(06:34):
a really good innings from him. You couldn't ask for
more from Henry Nichols in that match. As I say,
the two hundreds came for New Zealand, didn't they They mattered?
Speaker 2 (06:45):
Ye, most definitely, and you look back at a technical awareness,
I think England were technically outplayed. McCallum tried to justify
the technics that they undertook, but he was unconvincing. They
were outplayed and the technical side of things took took
(07:08):
over from New Zealand.
Speaker 5 (07:10):
Well New Zealand once they got the runs.
Speaker 4 (07:11):
Of course, that put a lot of pressure on England
in their last innings. And you know O'Rourke hasn't found
it quite so easy heres. The pitchers haven't suited him.
In the first first match at Lord's you had to
bring the stumps into play with lbw's in bold, so
(07:32):
his length didn't really that didn't suit O'Rourke. And in
this particular match also the odd one was keeping a
little low. But he did get important wickets like Ducket,
like Gay where he got them to flinch and turn slightly.
Duckett tried to swat him and was caught by Henry
at mid on. Jamison got a few wickets at the
(07:55):
starter as well. Everyone played their little bit, didn't they,
But striding above everything it was Matt Henry his skill
in that pitch, just outside of just the right links,
nipping the odd one back. You know, he nearly got
route and Brooke that second to last day didn't. He
(08:16):
was inside edges, just onto the pad and then he
got one to just hold its line a little bit
with Brook looking to play it as if it was
coming in, and took the outside edge and was gone.
Speaker 5 (08:29):
He was looking quite dangerous.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
It's it's looking to be an interesting Test match at
trent Bridge now because England back in full force. They
suffered because of the issue around Stokes. Now you know
that that has been ongoing right the way since the
Lord's Tests, but you know, are they going to overcome that?
(08:54):
And this lead up to the trent Bridge Test?
Speaker 4 (08:56):
Oh mate, I just I had to go out on
the field to start TMS and some of and some
of the TV and that sort of thing, and the
majority of the time we were not talking.
Speaker 5 (09:08):
About the game.
Speaker 4 (09:10):
We were talking about the Stokes Atkinson kind of incident.
There were two investigations, one by the ECB. They thought
they breached such a contractual obligation about the curfew. They
didn't give any blame for the violent conduct at all
to either of the players, and Stokes didn't even witness it,
(09:31):
so that's what they came up with. Then the regulator
is the other guy who was investigating it. He's more
of a guy who takes a legal view of the
whole thing, and he found there was no case to
answer at all for them. There was no ECB rules
or regulations broken, he said, and there's no provocation about
(09:54):
the incident. So he just sort of pushed it from
one side. So the curfew was obviously spoken about in
the room, but it wasn't written down as contracts. Now,
I'm afraid with players occur, so there was nothing they broke,
and the habit carry on and carry on for two
weeks is absolutely absurd.
Speaker 5 (10:16):
Why didn't someone take charge of the whole thing?
Speaker 4 (10:19):
The point I would make now is what happens now
between Stokes McCullum.
Speaker 5 (10:26):
How is that relationship?
Speaker 4 (10:28):
I think Stokes personally won't be very happy and about that,
and I think that's going to be the biggest issue
now for McCullum to kind of repair that.
Speaker 5 (10:42):
Now.
Speaker 4 (10:43):
Other people will have different views, I'm sure about it,
but that's what I took from that whole thing. There
is a gap, a schism, a fracture, whatever you want
to call it between those two players who were soaked
or those two important people Stokes and McCullum.
Speaker 5 (10:59):
That has occurred.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
Yeah, and we'll talk about that shortly with one of
your colleagues, Daniel across from TMS. But you'll be heading
up to trent Bridge and I feel though from this
side of the world, you'd have to go with the
sort of confidence New Zealand will take up there as well,
won't you. We know what happened at trent Bridge last
time they played there and Johnny Besto ran a mock,
(11:24):
didn't he. But the performance at the Oval where the
last time New Zealand played there was nineteen ninety nine
and Chris Kenns led us to victory in that Test
match must give them great confidence going up to Nottingham.
Speaker 5 (11:40):
Definitely. Definitely.
Speaker 4 (11:42):
The bowling is starting to operate nicely together. I can't
see that changing greatly. And the batting now is gaining confidence.
I think it's looking a bit longer and a bit
more certain. They're not just playing white ball shots than
getting out any longer. They're playing a decent longlings. Let's
(12:04):
hope that continues. I've looked at the scores at not
they're round about I mean some of the scores for example,
not playing Surry all teams three innings all four hundred.
Somerset played there the latest game on June the twelfth
to the fifteenth a three hundred and a three hundred
for Somerset and not bowled out. It's the seamers have
(12:25):
got most of the wickets, but there is also a
guy called Liam Patterson White who's a left arm spinner
who gets wickets for Not as well. And Leech has
got a three in that last game as well. So
whether England are going to go in with a spinner
or whether they're just going to go with their seemers,
we're going to have to wait and see.
Speaker 5 (12:45):
But it is possible to get runs there.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
Yeah, interesting stuff for Jerry. The Stokes issue really played
a big part in the entire Test and the lead
up to the Test. And it's a pleasure to be
joined by Test Met Special commentator Daniel Norcross because I'm
sure it's an issue that's taken a lot of time
(13:09):
and a lot of thought within the English media. To me,
there's been a lot of plank spoken about the Stokes issue.
I mean it's something that happens should have been dealt
with and moved on, but it's dominated the whole time
Daniel hasn't it in terms of Ben Stokes, not only
as leader of the side, but his relationships with people
(13:31):
around the game. And I think it's done England and
the England team at the service, isn't it?
Speaker 6 (13:37):
Absolutely? And you know it's trying to process it. Brian
is trying to work out who's to blame for what,
and that's obviously what happens in these situations. You get fingerpointing.
So let me give you roughly the timeline. So within
twelve hours fifteen hours or so of England winning that
bit of a lottery of a Test match at Lord's,
(14:00):
suddenly you get this message that arrives on your phone
and it was pretty blunt and it said that Ben
Stokes and Gus Atkinson had been involved in an incident
in a nightclub, at which point your heart sinks because
it's the echoes. It's the echoes of the Ashes, it's
the echoes of the pre Ashes, it's the echoes of
Harry Brook and his nightclub incident in New Zealand, of Noosa,
(14:24):
and it takes it all the way back to, of course,
ben Stokes's fabled altercation in Bristol, which is now nearly
nine years away, and you think to yourself, how on
earth can this have happened? And the immediate reaction is,
you know, if the captain's involved in an incident like this,
then you know this is the last straw. Then you
discover gradually over time, but so slowly, Wie and this
(14:48):
was the issue that actually the captain wasn't involved in
an altercation at all. It happened to be in a
nightclub when a punch was thrown, not at him. And
then you find out that there was a curfew in place,
and you don't understand why there would be because to
be really clear, you know, when a Test match is
over and a lot of these players live in London,
(15:09):
were they really expected to be on a curfew for
the next ten days when they'd be going back to
their houses. I mean, Jamie Smith himself was going to
have to be at the birth of a child of
his was going to was he going to have to
miss it if it was after midnight? I mean the
absurdity of all these particular you know, different bits and
bobs that were that were failing to be addressed by
(15:29):
the ECB. So the ECB left this vacuum in which
speculation began to.
Speaker 5 (15:33):
Grow, and then we discovered.
Speaker 6 (15:37):
At the end of the entire process, when the end
of the process was yesterday, that the cricket Regulator had
reported that there was no breach. Now why it took
so long, no one knows. And what I guess is
is showing up here is that either the ECB have
been exceptionally incompetent in managing the message, or there has
(16:00):
been an attempt to kind of almost constructively dismiss s
those almost as if the relationship between the cat and
the management has broken down somewhere that we can't see
somewhere over the course of the ashes and the build
up to this series that actually they wanted him to
resign himself. We had that peculiar press conference in which
(16:22):
Brenda McCullen kept talking about Ben Stokes' mental health and
being worried about him, and then within three days of
that we had the CEO of Durham, the county where
he plays, saying there's absolutely nothing wrong with Ben's mental
health and we're looking forward to having him play for us.
So it's been a snaffoo of the ECB's own making.
You might argue that had Ben Stokes not bothered to
(16:45):
go to a nightclub at all, even if he's having
a quiet drink somewhere and nowhere near a punch, that
wasn't sensible. But it's been overblown to such an extent.
You've then found yourself with a bunch of cricketers who
have become collateral damage. And I think here of the
likes of the Demuton's Sonny Baker, James Rue coming into
a game with very inadequate preparation in a that was
(17:08):
not strong enough to really hold their own against a
very very good New Zealand side, Matt Fisher coming back
for his first game in four years, and they'll all
be out of the team for the next game. I mean,
we could very easily Brian have a bizarre situation in
which England field and eleven at lords are totally different
eleven for the second Test and revert to exactly the
(17:30):
same eleven they had at Lord's for the third Test. Now,
I'm pretty certain that's never happened in Test figure history.
And the reason things like that don't happen is because
it's a very bad idea. So you know, it's been
a terrible, terrible sequence of errors. I don't know whether
Ben Stokes's relationship with the ECB can be properly repaired.
(17:51):
I don't know whether his relationship with Brendan McCullum is
a healthy one. He didn't seem to be being supported
in the immediate aftermath of the news breaking. And I
would say that if New Zealand win the trent Bridge Test,
and there's a very good chance of that happening because
they're a very fine team and they're playing pretty well
at the moment, you'd have to say I think something
will break. And whether that's McCullum or Stokes or Key,
(18:14):
I don't know. But this is quite a significant moment
for English cricket and it's hoving interview and because of
the next seven days.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
Yes, there's a perception that there is friction between individuals.
That's the big concern, isn't it. And I sort of
since on this side of the world, from reading what
I have read of various sosuation, you're probably closer to it,
and no more than me that there's a vast majority
of people now don't want Stokes as captain. Is that
(18:44):
a perception or is that a fact?
Speaker 5 (18:46):
Well, actually.
Speaker 6 (18:48):
I did a couple of events, you know, public events
where you have dinners and whatnot, and the overwhelming sentiment
in the general public that I saw was that they
wanted Stokes. I mean, partly because of the cricketer that
he is, partly because he balances the team, partly because
I don't think people in England are blaming Stokes is
kept and sy for England's failures. They're tending to blame
(19:10):
more the coach and Rob Key for inadequate preparation, not
giving the team what they needed in advance of the
action series, going into these series with a kind of
Devil may care attitude, and Stokes was adopting a quite
a different approach during the Ashes, as you may remember,
you know, suddenly digging himself in in Brisbane and Adelaide,
(19:32):
kind of abandoning the approach that had taken them to
that point. So I think actually I was quite surprised
to see it. I expected there to be a kind
of angry backlash at Stokes, what are you doing in
a nightclub. We've been through this all over again. That's it,
We've had enough. But actually there's quite a lot of
sympathy for Stokes, and whether that's because, as I say,
(19:54):
because he's such a colossal cricketer in English history, because
of what he represents the moments he's been at, but
also because he's such a key figure in making that
eleven actually work.
Speaker 5 (20:05):
I don't know. So I would think that actually the
the bigger pressure is.
Speaker 6 (20:09):
Going to be on McCollum, key and as well as
the Richards, Goulden Thompson at the top, because you know,
they are part of the decision making process that results
in there being no practice matches before the Ashes, you know,
playing a one day series in New Zealand, but sending
many of the Ashes squad there completely inadequate preparation. So yeah,
(20:32):
I look, it's hard to tells and it's hard to gauge,
but I think the general feeling is that people want
Stokes back and they're starting to tire of the words
that are coming out of the ECB took.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
A bit of stick from their former players, Michael Vaughan
and even Ian both of them. But Rich I said
a little bit earlier. Some people just don't learn, do they. Well,
you know it, Boss took a long while to learn,
didn't he when he was playing the game. But The
end result Dan is that the England side didn't play well.
(21:04):
They were outplayed by New Zealand. Some qualify cricket from
the New Zealanders in that guy. There's some quality stuff
from England as well. But New Zealand outplayed them, didn't.
Speaker 6 (21:15):
They well, they absolutely thrashed them. I mean the only
time that England were in that game was on the
first day and that was largely due to self inflicted
mistakes by the New Zealand batters on a pretty good
pitch on the first day. You know, there were a
few soft dismissals, there was some pretty tight, decent enough
bowling from a very callow attack. I mean, you know,
it was the most inexperienced four man pace attack England
(21:38):
has ever put out. Between them, they had twenty nine caps,
which is just insanely inexperienced. You know, they sort of
held their own on the first day, they were a
bit assisted by New Zealand, but thereafter New Zealand beat
them in every department of the game. England were dropping catches.
They got a new wicket keeper behind the stumps who
didn't look up to the job in his first game. Understandably,
(21:59):
New Zealand's bowling was persistent and penetrative, and you know,
it's wonderful to see there's a foreman pace attack there
that one day Nathan Smith is taking five six wickets,
then Kyle Jamison's chipping in with three or four willow
rowp looks like a persistent threat and amongst all of it,
Matt Henry's taking eleven wickets. They've got good plans. They
(22:19):
know how to keep England's best batters quiet.
Speaker 5 (22:21):
I thought the.
Speaker 6 (22:22):
Plans to Brook and Route were absolutely impeccable. They looked
like they were playing Test cricket, whereas England team, not
particularly surprisingly given their inexperience, looked like they were treading water,
thrashing about trying to stay in the game. And I
mean I thought before this series started that England would
really struggle to beat New Zealand. England don't lose Test
(22:43):
series at home very often, the last one was about
thirteen years ago.
Speaker 5 (22:47):
But New Zealand are a very.
Speaker 6 (22:49):
Strong team who were habitually underestimated by England and by
many of their other opponents. And they've shown it that
the bowlers are going to win you series, aren't they
And their format pace attack I think is better groove,
better honed, more experienced, and they work as a pack,
and they've got plans and they know how to get
people out. England plans were very simple. Joe Route returning
(23:10):
as captain when he couldn't get a wicket, goes to
a short ballploy the over bowl. Joff Er Archer again
eight o uspell. I mean shades of Mount Munganery, wasn't it.
They're just persistently sticking around with a leg slip hoping
that the little work. I mean it did on a
couple of occasions, but it's a pretty simple plan. And
(23:31):
I genuinely think that bas ball could have started against
New Zealand in twenty twenty two with that thrilling series
from an English point of view, and it could be
about to come to an end of the hands of
New Zealand four years later.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
Yeah, well it's going to be seen, I guess in
trent Bridge. Is there room for spin bowler for either
side at trim Bridge? Do you see?
Speaker 5 (23:51):
Well?
Speaker 6 (23:51):
Ordinarily I wouldn't have been particularly keen on a spinner
at trent Bridge because they don't usually prosper particularly, but
we've got some incredibly hot weather here. I mean, I
know the English often complain about heat when it's only
twenty five, but it's about thirty five to thirty eight degrees,
so that could affect the pitch interesting to see. It
could break up a bit. England's problem is that they
(24:12):
haven't developed a good spinner over the course of the
last four or five years. If they did play a spinner,
it would be Busher, who has had some success at
trent Bridge. I think I don't know whether New Zealand
need a spinner. With Revenderer and Glenn Phillips. I think
they've probably got enough because the pacers are bowling so well.
(24:33):
I would stick with what they've got. I think England
might consider the spinner because if Stokes comes back in
that balances aside. They can play four seemers and go
back to bush here. But you know, Push is a
young man who's still pretty I mean, he's quite experienced
in Test match term was weirdly interprise. He's got over
fifty wickets, but he's inexperienced in first class terms. He
(24:54):
hasn't played a great deal. He's got a county now
and he's not I don't think a Test quality spinner.
But they might be tempted to play him, I guess
because those conditions, because the pitch could break up. But
similar to New Zealand, they have Bethel Route who could
do that job. Whether five seamers is a bit of overkill,
I don't know. So they're indicated by playing If they
(25:15):
were going to play Persheer at Lord's where you never
really thought a spinner would come into it, then they
might very well picked one at trent Bridge.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
Yeah, lovely to talk to you again, Daniel. Hopefully you
can get an opportunity to talk cricket with you in
the future. Get off to trent Bridge, enjoy that Test
match and hopefully enjoy New Zealand winning a series.
Speaker 6 (25:38):
Well do you know they've been terrific fun to watch
and I wouldn't be grudge of the win at all.
Speaker 3 (25:43):
Good.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
Yeah, thanks Daniel. Lovely to talk to you. But parochial,
I guess, and unfeared. Daniel Norcross was balanced and complimentary
to the black Caps, and I think gave a fair
assessment of life in England at the moment. Boy, they're
facing some issues. Finally this week, sitting in his office chairs,
(26:05):
sitting a flat white and trying to get some worked
downe Peter Holland still has time to talk cricket. You
always had time to talk cricket. It won't take too
much of your time. Most I know how business is
up there in the city of Sales, but I guess,
like me, you were able to celebrate an outstanding Black
(26:25):
Caps when along the way it.
Speaker 3 (26:28):
Was a fabulous match and five days what a novelty?
Oh really, but it went into the fifth day that
myself I love because we had we had interesting cricket
all the way through. I really enjoy the jousting between
(26:51):
Phillips and Archer. What that that was riveting stuff, amazing.
It's the sort of things that you go this is
pretty good, isn't it. And I think I think Jerry
touched on the fact that Phillips played so wonderfully not
trying to hit the ball and in fact trying to
evade and and aware Archer down and I think I
(27:14):
think it's also picked up by Daniel Norcross that towards
a Jerry that that was say many bold eight overs
and was probably over bold by Joe Rude, which is
a shame because that was this great stuff propping up
a very inexperienced English side and as such got comprehensively beaten,
(27:38):
didn't they But was You can't take that away from
You can say it's an experienced team, particularly the the
the attack, but you can't take it away from the
fact that New Zealand played very well they across the board.
My only concerns will be we're not getting enough out
of our openers. Other than that, I'm greatly greatly encouraged
(28:02):
by what we saw from this match. I really am
revenge us really need them.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
Yeah, we got one more Test match of the series
and they're getting better. They certainly improved from Lords and
you know there's well, there's some probably poor memories from
Trent Bridge, remember back there when Johnny Bestow gave us
a bit of a pounding and we lost a Test
match there last time. But you know, I think the
site is better equipped to handle it. One of the
(28:30):
interesting things that you know, we've talked about and Daniel
Norcross I looked at it was the Stokes issue. Would
that go on in New Zealand and England were brought
down by friendly fire? Weren't they? And it's now become
almost a Mills and Boone romance story. The way the
Poms handle it. To me, it was just one issue,
(28:52):
deal with and move on. But you know they want
to keep it going forever in the day.
Speaker 3 (28:57):
There seems to be something in the UK, whether it
be in EP or football, they're always gunning for a manager.
You have a couple of losses, they're after you straight away.
And there was there was elements of all of that.
It was it was got a vindictive, nasty attitude towards Stokes.
(29:22):
They want it. They're after McCullum, right or wrong, They're
after Key and they don't let go. And by the way,
what's what's been shown here is that they don't want
to let facts get in the way of the whole
story or or the pitch that they are trying to
actually run here, because when the investigations were completed, it
(29:43):
appears there was nothing to be seen here and and
in fact it was overblown and looks like a complete
beat up. And I have the greatest sympathy for Archer
and for that matter, Atkinson and frankly, when you've won
a match in three days and you got ten days
to go, they're all growing ups and they're allowed to
(30:03):
go out there. What is also fascinating there's beat up
around the curfew, nothing written down because therefore that the
ECB had nothing to hang their head on. There was
no breach of team rules or protocols. Yeah, is that
they're to get someone because there's heat coming on them
(30:24):
for higher up. So if I've got a victim, you know,
it's a classic thing. If I've got a victim, then
I will look after myself. I'm not sure I'm being
unkind there, but it sniffs a little bit of that,
doesn't it.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
Yeah, there was no no crime committed as such, but
because of the past misdemeanors in Australia, there's always a
perception and a sniff of something which you know, I mean,
it's just a pointless exercises and it's basically clickbait and
they needed to just get on with it. And you know,
I mean Stokes is at a stage in his career
(31:00):
where you know, he may be winding down, who knows,
but they're already trying to create a gap between he McCullen,
and of course this is an important relationship. They have
to be on the same page. But we will watch
with interest, won't.
Speaker 3 (31:15):
We We will? And I also can I just add
in there. I feel sorry for Joe Root when he
hits this dumped on him, and I think it's been
proven that Joe who is a most wonderful player and
you know, a huge landmark during that Test. But maybe
Captain sees not his not his go there was no
(31:36):
one else and I accept that. And the poor guy
there is has a real thumping defeat on his record now,
which is kind of like it's a bit unfre on
the on the poor blog and he and he batted
through for a really good seventy and then got a
good one from Henry. So you know, I feel sorry
for Joe Root. But hopefully we're going to see Stokes
(31:58):
and co back and I think that's going to make
for an absolutely cracking game of cricket because when he's
back and Atkinson's back, they are a better side.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
I've been I've been fighting back the tears for poor
old Joe. You know, it's been hard, and I really,
you know, have been able to wipe away those tears
and hope that he gets another duck in the next
Test match or a duck. The other thing I'm interested
in is that they can't find room for Oli Robinson
back in the team. Atkinson comes back in, but Robinson,
(32:31):
along with Tongue, is their best bowler. I know how
good Archer is and how dangerous he can be, but Robinson,
to my mind, was the equivalent of Matt Henry in
that second Test.
Speaker 3 (32:45):
From a New Zealer point of view, I'm pleased they can't.
Oh yeah they can't because I think he's that awkward
you and Chatfield with an extra couple of yards of pace.
He hits your hits, hits the back real hard, he
hits it high up on the back, he nips it back,
(33:07):
hits your inside. He's He's niggly and and and really difficult.
I'd be, frankly I'd be swapping out Robinson for for
Atkinson myself, because I think he's a far more dangerous,
dangerous bowler. Atkinson very good, very very good, but also
Robinson's not. He's no schmuck with the with the with
the bad either. Cam Cam can't played, just as Atkinson
(33:30):
can as well. Yeah, I'd be going for Robinson myself
one hundred percent.
Speaker 2 (33:35):
It's an interesting but yeah, it's nice to have that
quality available. New Zealand has that quality available. Last week
we debated Nichols or Young as Williamson's replacement. I guess
I for one didn't give Nichols a fair hearing eye
went for the Young because he's the right hand and
no difference between them. But but really Nichols proved with
(34:00):
some real hard grafting plan. He's not the prettiest batsman
to watch, is he? But he did the job that
you want from number three, didn't he?
Speaker 5 (34:10):
Well? No question?
Speaker 3 (34:11):
And I too a bit of eat some humble pie.
I've felt that he's he sort of earned the place
of others that I thought were perhaps more more rewarding
of other spot and he was taking a place up.
But I really got to take that back and and
he did force his way in by virtue of what
(34:33):
he did in our summer here in New Zealand, and
that was a damn fine innings. And so I've just
got to say, yep, well done him. Another person who
I was not so sure about, and we discussed it
earlier was Blundle Good fifty and that move where he's
standing up to the stumps to Henry Ander Smith was
(34:55):
reminiscent and I recall it vividly when he did that
in Wellington at the Basin Reserve, and I remember sitting
in the members bar, not when I was having a
cup of tea course with one day O'Sullivan, old teammate
of mine, and we both noticed it because that changed
it that fifth day because Blundell came up. He brought
(35:18):
Pope back onto that out of the crease, and all
of a sudden the slips came in into play and
then they knocked over very quickly broke that end, same
sort of thing by standing up. And I noticed also
that Kerry was doing that with Nissa and Boland in
the ashes tests. I love it because that is craftsmanship
(35:42):
and keeping at its at its absolute best. And so
again Blundele very very well played this time, and he
probably doesn't get the plaudits he should get because he
gave back Matt Henry those opportunities to nibble away there.
And I guess because he's so accurate Henry, you know,
(36:04):
he's not firing one down leg and so on, it
makes it a little bit easier for bl But no,
hats off to Blundle and and two Nickels very much so.
Great great performances.
Speaker 2 (36:16):
Yeah, outstanding wicket keeping and interesting when you look at
the scoreboard. The New Zealand first innings of three hundred
and ninety one. There were fifty three extras and a
lot of those were buyers and leg buys. The keeper
for England okay, he was a stand and keeper, but
you know he has a difficult time and I think
(36:36):
he tried to come up to the stumps at one
stage as well. But you know, it was it was
interesting stuff in terms of that game. But it's exciting
now when we look ahead, as as Jerry and Daniel
Nacross said just previously in the program when we were
talking to them, most that this is an exciting test at.
Speaker 3 (37:00):
Win it takes all well you won one and both
sides of one comprehensively. Basically we're going to probably we
have the same team we had at Lord's from England
and pretty much the same team we'll play at temperature
for New Zealand. I think though, well, it's always been
a SEEMA friendly, hasn't it. It's trump Bridge. But then
(37:24):
I just wonder, because it's been so warm over there
in the English summer, whether that still plays. And I
think Jerry was touching on the fact that people are
be getting a lot of runs at Trent Bridge. Could
be a very interesting match again. But I like the
way our taxes has sort of going about their work.
(37:47):
We've got pace, we've got bounce, we've got the variations
through Henry Smith is getting getting better and better, brilliant
round out by the way for Duckett early days. You know,
it's a good team, isn't it. That they're starting to
pull together.
Speaker 2 (38:03):
Yeah, exciting stuff. And you're right, thirty to thirty five
degrees which will put a bit of pressure on the
captain and the use of paste bowlers and those sorts
of things. And of course Trent Bridges is a funny shape,
isn't it. They've had to remodel things. They couldn't push
it out at one part where they put the new
standard and the boundaries are not the longest. So that's
one of the reasons too why there's been run scored there.
(38:26):
But it's exciting, too exciting to look ahead.
Speaker 3 (38:28):
To very much. So I quite like the quirkiness of
some of those grounds in England. Yeah, I think that's
that's part of that, that's part of the the joys
of cricket. You know. Wasn't there one in Canterbury where
there was an oak tree down at third Man for quite.
Speaker 2 (38:45):
A long time middle of the park.
Speaker 3 (38:47):
Yeah, that's the funny.
Speaker 2 (38:49):
We were going to talk about the white fans this
morning too, but I'm afraid they're playing for a place
to come home somehow. There is an opportunity if the
West Indies get beaten twice in New Zealand is able
to beat England, and I hope they can at least
come away with some modicum of fectibility. But it's been
(39:10):
a sad performance by the White fans and the chances
of defending that title just slipped away right from the
first day. You gotta take your catches nice.
Speaker 3 (39:22):
Ah. And we're not talking difficult ones either, really, are we, Brian?
Speaker 5 (39:27):
You know?
Speaker 3 (39:28):
And these are professional athletes. Yeah, yep, that's what they are.
Speaker 2 (39:35):
And they're getting they're getting paid good money. Now, I
mean it's not a million dollar stuff, but they're getting
a living.
Speaker 3 (39:41):
H You can, you can and and and look, we
everyone's very kind and and very sympathetic and so on.
But frankly, this yet is not good enough. And they
must know it themselves because if they're taking it, just
just even half of those catches, catches put pressure on
the next next play. We all know how this rolls.
(40:03):
But I just not they're sadly. Sadly I think the.
Speaker 2 (40:11):
Toast, yeah, which is a pretty but you know, provided
they take the good lessons from it, not the learnings
the less that have come out.
Speaker 3 (40:21):
Yes, it is a lesson that's corrects learning. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:27):
The The other thing too is that it's always a
sad time in cricket when your mates pass on. But
I don't know whether you knew Russell Robinson very well,
a good mate of chats, but Russell Robinson brilliant snooker player,
left arm round the wicket barlor. He used to start
with the left arm behind his back and then he
would deliver pass away this week squeaky as we knew him,
(40:51):
a really funny man, a lovely friend of everybody in cricket.
And he's passed away. You probably would have played a
game against him all with him at some stage.
Speaker 3 (41:01):
Oh yeah, yeah, absolutely, But it's a name from the
distant pass. But sadly, you know, we we you know,
we're having a few disappear on us and that's just
part of life, I suppose, but almost nice to acknowledge
and and just to just comment on the contributions of
(41:26):
someone who's a decent human being, good cricketer and a
lot of fun and and we're the poor, poor for
him not being around. But that is life, I guess.
Speaker 2 (41:34):
And they've had impact on our lives in one way
or another and we thank them for that. The other
person who's just passed away Dave cansella who you will
have known to former CD bowler umpire father of Penny
and Roger Cainseller. He has passed away as well. And
I have a lot of memories of him going round
(41:55):
the domestic scene because he was an umpire player and
a very very quiet gentleman who always offered good, positive
thoughts on things.
Speaker 3 (42:07):
I wasn't aware of that brand. And I do remember
Dave Conseller one as a kid when when he was
bowling you know, mediums for for CD. But more importantly
he was an umpire when when I was coming into
first class cricket at the time, And you're right about that.
The one thing that I remember about him was he
(42:27):
was a quiet gentleman, tall man, but very gentle spirit
and just it was a very nice fellow and and
and he sticks in my memory for sure. So our
condolences to the Conseiller family. Lovely fellow. Yeah, and never
had a lot to say, but but but yeah, that
(42:49):
sticks in my memory for sure.
Speaker 2 (42:51):
Yeah. Yeah, our condolences to both families, Russell Robinson and
Dave Kinsella and fond memories for both those individuals. All right,
well you can, you can finish your coffee off, you
can put your feet up, you can get ready for
the test at trent Bridge, and I suppose you'll be
watching the highlights of the morning rather than sleeping through
(43:12):
the night watching.
Speaker 3 (43:13):
Well I do. I do actually tune into Jerry during
the night on the radio commentaries because I do quite
enjoy them, so I quite like that.
Speaker 2 (43:26):
The other thing is he's working for so many radio
stations over there. He's doing common NonStop commentary.
Speaker 3 (43:31):
I think does he know which one he's doing because
he's not getting the younger for a fellow who's a
very sprightly seventy four, he's going, okay as our Jerry.
Speaker 2 (43:41):
But happy birthday for the twenty first Jeremy Coney when
he turned at seventy four, so he's I'm sure celebrated
that in the appropriate fashion.
Speaker 3 (43:53):
Absolutely, Yeah, toasted Jerry and on what we call winter Solstice,
and of course the longest day in summer over there.
So there you go, twenty first to.
Speaker 2 (44:02):
Journey, shortest day in New Zealand. Enjoy yourself, most.
Speaker 3 (44:08):
Do we'll do, and look forward to look forward to
chatting again and maybe you wrapping up a two to
one series victory for our voice New Zealand.
Speaker 2 (44:19):
Thanks very much, Moose, Thank you very much. Also to
Daniel Norcross and to you Jerry. You've been sitting on there,
I since you've been enjoying this. I know you enjoyed
Test cricket, but I sense that you've had a real
enjoyment out of watching the proceedings in this three Test series.
(44:39):
I have, you know, lying on my beard in the
lounge watching the carry on. But it's great cricket. It's
great theater. It's what cricket to me is all about.
Forget your white ball, your colored stuff. This is great theater.
Speaker 5 (44:54):
Yeah, it is what it's I did.
Speaker 4 (44:57):
I did get a lot of pleasure, of course, a
lot more because New Zealand happened to play well and
they earned the victory and they were better. Now the
stronger side, I think, slightly stronger side, you know, in
this third Test match, hopefully it'll be a decent pitch
and it will be a little bit more even, I think,
(45:20):
but New Zealand will feel if they can, you know,
repeat that kind of performance again, they'll have a good chance.
Speaker 2 (45:29):
All Right, This up next week again. Enjoy Trembridge and
we'll talk again.
Speaker 5 (45:35):
We'll do ones look forward to it.
Speaker 2 (45:37):
Thanksumming.
Speaker 1 (45:48):
For more from News Talks at b Listen live on
air or online, and keep our shows with you wherever
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You're listening to a podcast from News Talk Sat B.
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Speaker 2 (00:20):
Take it on at it is out, the Test is over,
smokes a beauty, It is out and.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
Here he goes. This delivery has in the usage to go.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
On the Front Foot with Brian Waddell and Jeremy Coney
powered by News Talks Dead B at iHeart Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Hello back with on the Front Foot. It's a bit
rich Lord Botham criticizing dropped England captain Ben Stokes for
breaking its team kofy. So he doesn't see how to
justify what happened. Yeah, perhaps you could look back in
history for old Ian Botham. It's this series with England
squared with one to play. That's exciting and the White
(01:10):
Ferns well, their hopes are alive. Just I've got Scotland
at England to play. What is it going to lead
to that? A little bit later on the front foot.
But a test match, a test series, had a Test game,
Jeremy Coney. That was quality cricket from the new Zilders.
(01:30):
They fought back well and outplayed England, didn't they?
Speaker 4 (01:34):
Yes, simply more reliable wads, very solid through the match.
I was a wee bit disappointed with the way they
got out in the first inning some of the players,
but they got partnerships through and I think the key
part in the match almost was that second morning when
England came out again and used a short ball and
(01:57):
New Zealand through Phillips who had had it was a
terrific innings from Phillips that whole session at the end
of first day. It was quite commanding, you know, watching him.
Don't often see a modern player trying not to hit
the ball, and yet he was able to get underneath
(02:19):
the ball in various ways of archer. That cost England
because then the physiotherapist the next morning said Archie, you
can't bowl after those eight overs of short pitched bowling.
So we had physios calling the bowling changes and then
from them to go on with Jamison. I mean that
(02:40):
was fabulous and so it was three ninety one. A
bit of gst in there perhaps, but New Zealand had
the two top innings was in the match. New Zealand
got the two hundreds in the match and New Zealand
had Henry in.
Speaker 5 (02:55):
The match and that was enoughty to secure the win.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Yeah, that's the interesting point that you talk about. Henry
was man of the match and eleven wickets deserve it.
That's a great performance. Our case had to be made
for Phillips because I thought that was a gutsy display
archers bowling, to my mind in cricket terms, was evil.
That was the firiest spell I've seen for some time
(03:21):
from a quickie.
Speaker 4 (03:23):
Yeah, eight overs of it too. He kept on going
and he was very accurate, very accurate, and yet underneath
Nichols went and kept on too. He was not going
to play a pull shot or a hook shot. So
it was a great encounter between those two and Phillips
won it, and so he was able to carry on
(03:44):
a very important innings for him and for the side,
and to be able to get that, you know, three
ninety just pushed it beyond England really and New Zealand
cleverly bowled O'Rourke and Jamison mainly from the Pavilion end.
They thought there was more bounce from that end, and
then they bowled a skiddier bowl as Smith and Henry
(04:05):
from the Vauxhall end and that proved I think the
very good decision from Latham or whoever made it.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
It was very effective that period of play when Archer
was at his peak and Phillips was batting. The way
was to me is the is the story of Test
cricket that puts Test cricket way beyond any other form
of the game, doesn't it to be able to watch
that confrontation skills of players being used, And as you say,
(04:38):
Phillips won because Archie didn't get.
Speaker 4 (04:40):
A wicket right and he showed no little skill in
going under some of those deliveries. All Right, it might
have looked a bit awkward, and some people even had
a bit of a giggle on the occasion, but boy,
you're right it was. It was cricket for real, proper cricket.
Two guys not giving in, and that's those are the
(05:04):
sort of encounters you like to see, and it's the
only format that you will see that sort of thing happening.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
And you know, you've got to also give some credit to,
in fact, a lot of credit to Henry Nichols. I'm
Kane Williamson's replacement. Hey oh, it's like the days of
Willie Watson coming in as replacement for Richard Hadley. There's
no replacement for players of that quality. But yet Nichols
did everything you wanted him to do.
Speaker 4 (05:32):
Yeah, he got a twenty odd in the first innings.
Took his time, but there were little signs that he
was starting to back himself and gain some confidence, I
think from that first and he batted for quite a
number of balls before he was bold. And then in
that second innings he hung in there and as England
(05:53):
set those very short set fields, some strange fields sets
short shortcover, short mid off, short mid on short mid
wicket and he just punched the ball through. He and
the were a partnership between Nichols and Ravendra that next
day was able to push New Zealand. Ravendra playing the big,
(06:13):
classical sort of strokes that were eye catching, but Nichols too,
don't forget. Even against the spinner, Vessel was able to
knock him over the top a few times and he
just punched the ball or steered the ball and was
getting boundaries because those fielders were in quite close. So
(06:34):
a really good innings from him. You couldn't ask for
more from Henry Nichols in that match. As I say,
the two hundreds came for New Zealand, didn't they They mattered?
Speaker 2 (06:45):
Ye, most definitely, and you look back at a technical awareness,
I think England were technically outplayed. McCallum tried to justify
the technics that they undertook, but he was unconvincing. They
were outplayed and the technical side of things took took
(07:08):
over from New Zealand.
Speaker 5 (07:10):
Well New Zealand once they got the runs.
Speaker 4 (07:11):
Of course, that put a lot of pressure on England
in their last innings. And you know O'Rourke hasn't found
it quite so easy heres. The pitchers haven't suited him.
In the first first match at Lord's you had to
bring the stumps into play with lbw's in bold, so
(07:32):
his length didn't really that didn't suit O'Rourke. And in
this particular match also the odd one was keeping a
little low. But he did get important wickets like Ducket,
like Gay where he got them to flinch and turn slightly.
Duckett tried to swat him and was caught by Henry
at mid on. Jamison got a few wickets at the
(07:55):
starter as well. Everyone played their little bit, didn't they,
But striding above everything it was Matt Henry his skill
in that pitch, just outside of just the right links,
nipping the odd one back. You know, he nearly got
route and Brooke that second to last day didn't. He
(08:16):
was inside edges, just onto the pad and then he
got one to just hold its line a little bit
with Brook looking to play it as if it was
coming in, and took the outside edge and was gone.
Speaker 5 (08:29):
He was looking quite dangerous.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
It's it's looking to be an interesting Test match at
trent Bridge now because England back in full force. They
suffered because of the issue around Stokes. Now you know
that that has been ongoing right the way since the
Lord's Tests, but you know, are they going to overcome that?
(08:54):
And this lead up to the trent Bridge Test?
Speaker 4 (08:56):
Oh mate, I just I had to go out on
the field to start TMS and some of and some
of the TV and that sort of thing, and the
majority of the time we were not talking.
Speaker 5 (09:08):
About the game.
Speaker 4 (09:10):
We were talking about the Stokes Atkinson kind of incident.
There were two investigations, one by the ECB. They thought
they breached such a contractual obligation about the curfew. They
didn't give any blame for the violent conduct at all
to either of the players, and Stokes didn't even witness it,
(09:31):
so that's what they came up with. Then the regulator
is the other guy who was investigating it. He's more
of a guy who takes a legal view of the
whole thing, and he found there was no case to
answer at all for them. There was no ECB rules
or regulations broken, he said, and there's no provocation about
(09:54):
the incident. So he just sort of pushed it from
one side. So the curfew was obviously spoken about in
the room, but it wasn't written down as contracts. Now,
I'm afraid with players occur, so there was nothing they broke,
and the habit carry on and carry on for two
weeks is absolutely absurd.
Speaker 5 (10:16):
Why didn't someone take charge of the whole thing?
Speaker 4 (10:19):
The point I would make now is what happens now
between Stokes McCullum.
Speaker 5 (10:26):
How is that relationship?
Speaker 4 (10:28):
I think Stokes personally won't be very happy and about that,
and I think that's going to be the biggest issue
now for McCullum to kind of repair that.
Speaker 5 (10:42):
Now.
Speaker 4 (10:43):
Other people will have different views, I'm sure about it,
but that's what I took from that whole thing. There
is a gap, a schism, a fracture, whatever you want
to call it between those two players who were soaked
or those two important people Stokes and McCullum.
Speaker 5 (10:59):
That has occurred.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
Yeah, and we'll talk about that shortly with one of
your colleagues, Daniel across from TMS. But you'll be heading
up to trent Bridge and I feel though from this
side of the world, you'd have to go with the
sort of confidence New Zealand will take up there as well,
won't you. We know what happened at trent Bridge last
time they played there and Johnny Besto ran a mock,
(11:24):
didn't he. But the performance at the Oval where the
last time New Zealand played there was nineteen ninety nine
and Chris Kenns led us to victory in that Test
match must give them great confidence going up to Nottingham.
Speaker 5 (11:40):
Definitely. Definitely.
Speaker 4 (11:42):
The bowling is starting to operate nicely together. I can't
see that changing greatly. And the batting now is gaining confidence.
I think it's looking a bit longer and a bit
more certain. They're not just playing white ball shots than
getting out any longer. They're playing a decent longlings. Let's
(12:04):
hope that continues. I've looked at the scores at not
they're round about I mean some of the scores for example,
not playing Surry all teams three innings all four hundred.
Somerset played there the latest game on June the twelfth
to the fifteenth a three hundred and a three hundred
for Somerset and not bowled out. It's the seamers have
(12:25):
got most of the wickets, but there is also a
guy called Liam Patterson White who's a left arm spinner
who gets wickets for Not as well. And Leech has
got a three in that last game as well. So
whether England are going to go in with a spinner
or whether they're just going to go with their seemers,
we're going to have to wait and see.
Speaker 5 (12:45):
But it is possible to get runs there.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
Yeah, interesting stuff for Jerry. The Stokes issue really played
a big part in the entire Test and the lead
up to the Test. And it's a pleasure to be
joined by Test Met Special commentator Daniel Norcross because I'm
sure it's an issue that's taken a lot of time
(13:09):
and a lot of thought within the English media. To me,
there's been a lot of plank spoken about the Stokes issue.
I mean it's something that happens should have been dealt
with and moved on, but it's dominated the whole time
Daniel hasn't it in terms of Ben Stokes, not only
as leader of the side, but his relationships with people
(13:31):
around the game. And I think it's done England and
the England team at the service, isn't it?
Speaker 6 (13:37):
Absolutely? And you know it's trying to process it. Brian
is trying to work out who's to blame for what,
and that's obviously what happens in these situations. You get fingerpointing.
So let me give you roughly the timeline. So within
twelve hours fifteen hours or so of England winning that
bit of a lottery of a Test match at Lord's,
(14:00):
suddenly you get this message that arrives on your phone
and it was pretty blunt and it said that Ben
Stokes and Gus Atkinson had been involved in an incident
in a nightclub, at which point your heart sinks because
it's the echoes. It's the echoes of the Ashes, it's
the echoes of the pre Ashes, it's the echoes of
Harry Brook and his nightclub incident in New Zealand, of Noosa,
(14:24):
and it takes it all the way back to, of course,
ben Stokes's fabled altercation in Bristol, which is now nearly
nine years away, and you think to yourself, how on
earth can this have happened? And the immediate reaction is,
you know, if the captain's involved in an incident like this,
then you know this is the last straw. Then you
discover gradually over time, but so slowly, Wie and this
(14:48):
was the issue that actually the captain wasn't involved in
an altercation at all. It happened to be in a
nightclub when a punch was thrown, not at him. And
then you find out that there was a curfew in place,
and you don't understand why there would be because to
be really clear, you know, when a Test match is
over and a lot of these players live in London,
(15:09):
were they really expected to be on a curfew for
the next ten days when they'd be going back to
their houses. I mean, Jamie Smith himself was going to
have to be at the birth of a child of
his was going to was he going to have to
miss it if it was after midnight? I mean the
absurdity of all these particular you know, different bits and
bobs that were that were failing to be addressed by
(15:29):
the ECB. So the ECB left this vacuum in which
speculation began to.
Speaker 5 (15:33):
Grow, and then we discovered.
Speaker 6 (15:37):
At the end of the entire process, when the end
of the process was yesterday, that the cricket Regulator had
reported that there was no breach. Now why it took
so long, no one knows. And what I guess is
is showing up here is that either the ECB have
been exceptionally incompetent in managing the message, or there has
(16:00):
been an attempt to kind of almost constructively dismiss s
those almost as if the relationship between the cat and
the management has broken down somewhere that we can't see
somewhere over the course of the ashes and the build
up to this series that actually they wanted him to
resign himself. We had that peculiar press conference in which
(16:22):
Brenda McCullen kept talking about Ben Stokes' mental health and
being worried about him, and then within three days of
that we had the CEO of Durham, the county where
he plays, saying there's absolutely nothing wrong with Ben's mental
health and we're looking forward to having him play for us.
So it's been a snaffoo of the ECB's own making.
You might argue that had Ben Stokes not bothered to
(16:45):
go to a nightclub at all, even if he's having
a quiet drink somewhere and nowhere near a punch, that
wasn't sensible. But it's been overblown to such an extent.
You've then found yourself with a bunch of cricketers who
have become collateral damage. And I think here of the
likes of the Demuton's Sonny Baker, James Rue coming into
a game with very inadequate preparation in a that was
(17:08):
not strong enough to really hold their own against a
very very good New Zealand side, Matt Fisher coming back
for his first game in four years, and they'll all
be out of the team for the next game. I mean,
we could very easily Brian have a bizarre situation in
which England field and eleven at lords are totally different
eleven for the second Test and revert to exactly the
(17:30):
same eleven they had at Lord's for the third Test. Now,
I'm pretty certain that's never happened in Test figure history.
And the reason things like that don't happen is because
it's a very bad idea. So you know, it's been
a terrible, terrible sequence of errors. I don't know whether
Ben Stokes's relationship with the ECB can be properly repaired.
(17:51):
I don't know whether his relationship with Brendan McCullum is
a healthy one. He didn't seem to be being supported
in the immediate aftermath of the news breaking. And I
would say that if New Zealand win the trent Bridge Test,
and there's a very good chance of that happening because
they're a very fine team and they're playing pretty well
at the moment, you'd have to say I think something
will break. And whether that's McCullum or Stokes or Key,
(18:14):
I don't know. But this is quite a significant moment
for English cricket and it's hoving interview and because of
the next seven days.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
Yes, there's a perception that there is friction between individuals.
That's the big concern, isn't it. And I sort of
since on this side of the world, from reading what
I have read of various sosuation, you're probably closer to it,
and no more than me that there's a vast majority
of people now don't want Stokes as captain. Is that
(18:44):
a perception or is that a fact?
Speaker 5 (18:46):
Well, actually.
Speaker 6 (18:48):
I did a couple of events, you know, public events
where you have dinners and whatnot, and the overwhelming sentiment
in the general public that I saw was that they
wanted Stokes. I mean, partly because of the cricketer that
he is, partly because he balances the team, partly because
I don't think people in England are blaming Stokes is
kept and sy for England's failures. They're tending to blame
(19:10):
more the coach and Rob Key for inadequate preparation, not
giving the team what they needed in advance of the
action series, going into these series with a kind of
Devil may care attitude, and Stokes was adopting a quite
a different approach during the Ashes, as you may remember,
you know, suddenly digging himself in in Brisbane and Adelaide,
(19:32):
kind of abandoning the approach that had taken them to
that point. So I think actually I was quite surprised
to see it. I expected there to be a kind
of angry backlash at Stokes, what are you doing in
a nightclub. We've been through this all over again. That's it,
We've had enough. But actually there's quite a lot of
sympathy for Stokes, and whether that's because, as I say,
(19:54):
because he's such a colossal cricketer in English history, because
of what he represents the moments he's been at, but
also because he's such a key figure in making that
eleven actually work.
Speaker 5 (20:05):
I don't know. So I would think that actually the
the bigger pressure is.
Speaker 6 (20:09):
Going to be on McCollum, key and as well as
the Richards, Goulden Thompson at the top, because you know,
they are part of the decision making process that results
in there being no practice matches before the Ashes, you know,
playing a one day series in New Zealand, but sending
many of the Ashes squad there completely inadequate preparation. So yeah,
(20:32):
I look, it's hard to tells and it's hard to gauge,
but I think the general feeling is that people want
Stokes back and they're starting to tire of the words
that are coming out of the ECB took.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
A bit of stick from their former players, Michael Vaughan
and even Ian both of them. But Rich I said
a little bit earlier. Some people just don't learn, do they. Well,
you know it, Boss took a long while to learn,
didn't he when he was playing the game. But The
end result Dan is that the England side didn't play well.
(21:04):
They were outplayed by New Zealand. Some qualify cricket from
the New Zealanders in that guy. There's some quality stuff
from England as well. But New Zealand outplayed them, didn't.
Speaker 6 (21:15):
They well, they absolutely thrashed them. I mean the only
time that England were in that game was on the
first day and that was largely due to self inflicted
mistakes by the New Zealand batters on a pretty good
pitch on the first day. You know, there were a
few soft dismissals, there was some pretty tight, decent enough
bowling from a very callow attack. I mean, you know,
it was the most inexperienced four man pace attack England
(21:38):
has ever put out. Between them, they had twenty nine caps,
which is just insanely inexperienced. You know, they sort of
held their own on the first day, they were a
bit assisted by New Zealand, but thereafter New Zealand beat
them in every department of the game. England were dropping catches.
They got a new wicket keeper behind the stumps who
didn't look up to the job in his first game. Understandably,
(21:59):
New Zealand's bowling was persistent and penetrative, and you know,
it's wonderful to see there's a foreman pace attack there
that one day Nathan Smith is taking five six wickets,
then Kyle Jamison's chipping in with three or four willow
rowp looks like a persistent threat and amongst all of it,
Matt Henry's taking eleven wickets. They've got good plans. They
(22:19):
know how to keep England's best batters quiet.
Speaker 5 (22:21):
I thought the.
Speaker 6 (22:22):
Plans to Brook and Route were absolutely impeccable. They looked
like they were playing Test cricket, whereas England team, not
particularly surprisingly given their inexperience, looked like they were treading water,
thrashing about trying to stay in the game. And I
mean I thought before this series started that England would
really struggle to beat New Zealand. England don't lose Test
(22:43):
series at home very often, the last one was about
thirteen years ago.
Speaker 5 (22:47):
But New Zealand are a very.
Speaker 6 (22:49):
Strong team who were habitually underestimated by England and by
many of their other opponents. And they've shown it that
the bowlers are going to win you series, aren't they
And their format pace attack I think is better groove,
better honed, more experienced, and they work as a pack,
and they've got plans and they know how to get
people out. England plans were very simple. Joe Route returning
(23:10):
as captain when he couldn't get a wicket, goes to
a short ballploy the over bowl. Joff Er Archer again
eight o uspell. I mean shades of Mount Munganery, wasn't it.
They're just persistently sticking around with a leg slip hoping
that the little work. I mean it did on a
couple of occasions, but it's a pretty simple plan. And
(23:31):
I genuinely think that bas ball could have started against
New Zealand in twenty twenty two with that thrilling series
from an English point of view, and it could be
about to come to an end of the hands of
New Zealand four years later.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
Yeah, well it's going to be seen, I guess in
trent Bridge. Is there room for spin bowler for either
side at trim Bridge? Do you see?
Speaker 5 (23:51):
Well?
Speaker 6 (23:51):
Ordinarily I wouldn't have been particularly keen on a spinner
at trent Bridge because they don't usually prosper particularly, but
we've got some incredibly hot weather here. I mean, I
know the English often complain about heat when it's only
twenty five, but it's about thirty five to thirty eight degrees,
so that could affect the pitch interesting to see. It
could break up a bit. England's problem is that they
(24:12):
haven't developed a good spinner over the course of the
last four or five years. If they did play a spinner,
it would be Busher, who has had some success at
trent Bridge. I think I don't know whether New Zealand
need a spinner. With Revenderer and Glenn Phillips. I think
they've probably got enough because the pacers are bowling so well.
(24:33):
I would stick with what they've got. I think England
might consider the spinner because if Stokes comes back in
that balances aside. They can play four seemers and go
back to bush here. But you know, Push is a
young man who's still pretty I mean, he's quite experienced
in Test match term was weirdly interprise. He's got over
fifty wickets, but he's inexperienced in first class terms. He
(24:54):
hasn't played a great deal. He's got a county now
and he's not I don't think a Test quality spinner.
But they might be tempted to play him, I guess
because those conditions, because the pitch could break up. But
similar to New Zealand, they have Bethel Route who could
do that job. Whether five seamers is a bit of overkill,
I don't know. So they're indicated by playing If they
(25:15):
were going to play Persheer at Lord's where you never
really thought a spinner would come into it, then they
might very well picked one at trent Bridge.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
Yeah, lovely to talk to you again, Daniel. Hopefully you
can get an opportunity to talk cricket with you in
the future. Get off to trent Bridge, enjoy that Test
match and hopefully enjoy New Zealand winning a series.
Speaker 6 (25:38):
Well do you know they've been terrific fun to watch
and I wouldn't be grudge of the win at all.
Speaker 3 (25:43):
Good.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
Yeah, thanks Daniel. Lovely to talk to you. But parochial,
I guess, and unfeared. Daniel Norcross was balanced and complimentary
to the black Caps, and I think gave a fair
assessment of life in England at the moment. Boy, they're
facing some issues. Finally this week, sitting in his office chairs,
(26:05):
sitting a flat white and trying to get some worked
downe Peter Holland still has time to talk cricket. You
always had time to talk cricket. It won't take too
much of your time. Most I know how business is
up there in the city of Sales, but I guess,
like me, you were able to celebrate an outstanding Black
(26:25):
Caps when along the way it.
Speaker 3 (26:28):
Was a fabulous match and five days what a novelty?
Oh really, but it went into the fifth day that
myself I love because we had we had interesting cricket
all the way through. I really enjoy the jousting between
(26:51):
Phillips and Archer. What that that was riveting stuff, amazing.
It's the sort of things that you go this is
pretty good, isn't it. And I think I think Jerry
touched on the fact that Phillips played so wonderfully not
trying to hit the ball and in fact trying to
evade and and aware Archer down and I think I
(27:14):
think it's also picked up by Daniel Norcross that towards
a Jerry that that was say many bold eight overs
and was probably over bold by Joe Rude, which is
a shame because that was this great stuff propping up
a very inexperienced English side and as such got comprehensively beaten,
(27:38):
didn't they But was You can't take that away from
You can say it's an experienced team, particularly the the
the attack, but you can't take it away from the
fact that New Zealand played very well they across the board.
My only concerns will be we're not getting enough out
of our openers. Other than that, I'm greatly greatly encouraged
(28:02):
by what we saw from this match. I really am
revenge us really need them.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
Yeah, we got one more Test match of the series
and they're getting better. They certainly improved from Lords and
you know there's well, there's some probably poor memories from
Trent Bridge, remember back there when Johnny Bestow gave us
a bit of a pounding and we lost a Test
match there last time. But you know, I think the
site is better equipped to handle it. One of the
(28:30):
interesting things that you know, we've talked about and Daniel
Norcross I looked at it was the Stokes issue. Would
that go on in New Zealand and England were brought
down by friendly fire? Weren't they? And it's now become
almost a Mills and Boone romance story. The way the
Poms handle it. To me, it was just one issue,
(28:52):
deal with and move on. But you know they want
to keep it going forever in the day.
Speaker 3 (28:57):
There seems to be something in the UK, whether it
be in EP or football, they're always gunning for a manager.
You have a couple of losses, they're after you straight away.
And there was there was elements of all of that.
It was it was got a vindictive, nasty attitude towards Stokes.
(29:22):
They want it. They're after McCullum, right or wrong, They're
after Key and they don't let go. And by the way,
what's what's been shown here is that they don't want
to let facts get in the way of the whole
story or or the pitch that they are trying to
actually run here, because when the investigations were completed, it
(29:43):
appears there was nothing to be seen here and and
in fact it was overblown and looks like a complete
beat up. And I have the greatest sympathy for Archer
and for that matter, Atkinson and frankly, when you've won
a match in three days and you got ten days
to go, they're all growing ups and they're allowed to
(30:03):
go out there. What is also fascinating there's beat up
around the curfew, nothing written down because therefore that the
ECB had nothing to hang their head on. There was
no breach of team rules or protocols. Yeah, is that
they're to get someone because there's heat coming on them
(30:24):
for higher up. So if I've got a victim, you know,
it's a classic thing. If I've got a victim, then
I will look after myself. I'm not sure I'm being
unkind there, but it sniffs a little bit of that,
doesn't it.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
Yeah, there was no no crime committed as such, but
because of the past misdemeanors in Australia, there's always a
perception and a sniff of something which you know, I mean,
it's just a pointless exercises and it's basically clickbait and
they needed to just get on with it. And you know,
I mean Stokes is at a stage in his career
(31:00):
where you know, he may be winding down, who knows,
but they're already trying to create a gap between he McCullen,
and of course this is an important relationship. They have
to be on the same page. But we will watch
with interest, won't.
Speaker 3 (31:15):
We We will? And I also can I just add
in there. I feel sorry for Joe Root when he
hits this dumped on him, and I think it's been
proven that Joe who is a most wonderful player and
you know, a huge landmark during that Test. But maybe
Captain sees not his not his go there was no
(31:36):
one else and I accept that. And the poor guy
there is has a real thumping defeat on his record now,
which is kind of like it's a bit unfre on
the on the poor blog and he and he batted
through for a really good seventy and then got a
good one from Henry. So you know, I feel sorry
for Joe Root. But hopefully we're going to see Stokes
(31:58):
and co back and I think that's going to make
for an absolutely cracking game of cricket because when he's
back and Atkinson's back, they are a better side.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
I've been I've been fighting back the tears for poor
old Joe. You know, it's been hard, and I really,
you know, have been able to wipe away those tears
and hope that he gets another duck in the next
Test match or a duck. The other thing I'm interested
in is that they can't find room for Oli Robinson
back in the team. Atkinson comes back in, but Robinson,
(32:31):
along with Tongue, is their best bowler. I know how
good Archer is and how dangerous he can be, but Robinson,
to my mind, was the equivalent of Matt Henry in
that second Test.
Speaker 3 (32:45):
From a New Zealer point of view, I'm pleased they can't.
Oh yeah they can't because I think he's that awkward
you and Chatfield with an extra couple of yards of pace.
He hits your hits, hits the back real hard, he
hits it high up on the back, he nips it back,
(33:07):
hits your inside. He's He's niggly and and and really difficult.
I'd be, frankly I'd be swapping out Robinson for for
Atkinson myself, because I think he's a far more dangerous,
dangerous bowler. Atkinson very good, very very good, but also
Robinson's not. He's no schmuck with the with the with
the bad either. Cam Cam can't played, just as Atkinson
(33:30):
can as well. Yeah, I'd be going for Robinson myself
one hundred percent.
Speaker 2 (33:35):
It's an interesting but yeah, it's nice to have that
quality available. New Zealand has that quality available. Last week
we debated Nichols or Young as Williamson's replacement. I guess
I for one didn't give Nichols a fair hearing eye
went for the Young because he's the right hand and
no difference between them. But but really Nichols proved with
(34:00):
some real hard grafting plan. He's not the prettiest batsman
to watch, is he? But he did the job that
you want from number three, didn't he?
Speaker 5 (34:10):
Well? No question?
Speaker 3 (34:11):
And I too a bit of eat some humble pie.
I've felt that he's he sort of earned the place
of others that I thought were perhaps more more rewarding
of other spot and he was taking a place up.
But I really got to take that back and and
he did force his way in by virtue of what
(34:33):
he did in our summer here in New Zealand, and
that was a damn fine innings. And so I've just
got to say, yep, well done him. Another person who
I was not so sure about, and we discussed it
earlier was Blundle Good fifty and that move where he's
standing up to the stumps to Henry Ander Smith was
(34:55):
reminiscent and I recall it vividly when he did that
in Wellington at the Basin Reserve, and I remember sitting
in the members bar, not when I was having a
cup of tea course with one day O'Sullivan, old teammate
of mine, and we both noticed it because that changed
it that fifth day because Blundell came up. He brought
(35:18):
Pope back onto that out of the crease, and all
of a sudden the slips came in into play and
then they knocked over very quickly broke that end, same
sort of thing by standing up. And I noticed also
that Kerry was doing that with Nissa and Boland in
the ashes tests. I love it because that is craftsmanship
(35:42):
and keeping at its at its absolute best. And so
again Blundele very very well played this time, and he
probably doesn't get the plaudits he should get because he
gave back Matt Henry those opportunities to nibble away there.
And I guess because he's so accurate Henry, you know,
(36:04):
he's not firing one down leg and so on, it
makes it a little bit easier for bl But no,
hats off to Blundle and and two Nickels very much so.
Great great performances.
Speaker 2 (36:16):
Yeah, outstanding wicket keeping and interesting when you look at
the scoreboard. The New Zealand first innings of three hundred
and ninety one. There were fifty three extras and a
lot of those were buyers and leg buys. The keeper
for England okay, he was a stand and keeper, but
you know he has a difficult time and I think
(36:36):
he tried to come up to the stumps at one
stage as well. But you know, it was it was
interesting stuff in terms of that game. But it's exciting
now when we look ahead, as as Jerry and Daniel
Nacross said just previously in the program when we were
talking to them, most that this is an exciting test at.
Speaker 3 (37:00):
Win it takes all well you won one and both
sides of one comprehensively. Basically we're going to probably we
have the same team we had at Lord's from England
and pretty much the same team we'll play at temperature
for New Zealand. I think though, well, it's always been
a SEEMA friendly, hasn't it. It's trump Bridge. But then
(37:24):
I just wonder, because it's been so warm over there
in the English summer, whether that still plays. And I
think Jerry was touching on the fact that people are
be getting a lot of runs at Trent Bridge. Could
be a very interesting match again. But I like the
way our taxes has sort of going about their work.
(37:47):
We've got pace, we've got bounce, we've got the variations
through Henry Smith is getting getting better and better, brilliant
round out by the way for Duckett early days. You know,
it's a good team, isn't it. That they're starting to
pull together.
Speaker 2 (38:03):
Yeah, exciting stuff. And you're right, thirty to thirty five
degrees which will put a bit of pressure on the
captain and the use of paste bowlers and those sorts
of things. And of course Trent Bridges is a funny shape,
isn't it. They've had to remodel things. They couldn't push
it out at one part where they put the new
standard and the boundaries are not the longest. So that's
one of the reasons too why there's been run scored there.
(38:26):
But it's exciting, too exciting to look ahead.
Speaker 3 (38:28):
To very much. So I quite like the quirkiness of
some of those grounds in England. Yeah, I think that's
that's part of that, that's part of the the joys
of cricket. You know. Wasn't there one in Canterbury where
there was an oak tree down at third Man for quite.
Speaker 2 (38:45):
A long time middle of the park.
Speaker 3 (38:47):
Yeah, that's the funny.
Speaker 2 (38:49):
We were going to talk about the white fans this
morning too, but I'm afraid they're playing for a place
to come home somehow. There is an opportunity if the
West Indies get beaten twice in New Zealand is able
to beat England, and I hope they can at least
come away with some modicum of fectibility. But it's been
(39:10):
a sad performance by the White fans and the chances
of defending that title just slipped away right from the
first day. You gotta take your catches nice.
Speaker 3 (39:22):
Ah. And we're not talking difficult ones either, really, are we, Brian?
Speaker 5 (39:27):
You know?
Speaker 3 (39:28):
And these are professional athletes. Yeah, yep, that's what they are.
Speaker 2 (39:35):
And they're getting they're getting paid good money. Now, I
mean it's not a million dollar stuff, but they're getting
a living.
Speaker 3 (39:41):
H You can, you can and and and look, we
everyone's very kind and and very sympathetic and so on.
But frankly, this yet is not good enough. And they
must know it themselves because if they're taking it, just
just even half of those catches, catches put pressure on
the next next play. We all know how this rolls.
(40:03):
But I just not they're sadly. Sadly I think the.
Speaker 2 (40:11):
Toast, yeah, which is a pretty but you know, provided
they take the good lessons from it, not the learnings
the less that have come out.
Speaker 3 (40:21):
Yes, it is a lesson that's corrects learning. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:27):
The The other thing too is that it's always a
sad time in cricket when your mates pass on. But
I don't know whether you knew Russell Robinson very well,
a good mate of chats, but Russell Robinson brilliant snooker player,
left arm round the wicket barlor. He used to start
with the left arm behind his back and then he
would deliver pass away this week squeaky as we knew him,
(40:51):
a really funny man, a lovely friend of everybody in cricket.
And he's passed away. You probably would have played a
game against him all with him at some stage.
Speaker 3 (41:01):
Oh yeah, yeah, absolutely, But it's a name from the
distant pass. But sadly, you know, we we you know,
we're having a few disappear on us and that's just
part of life, I suppose, but almost nice to acknowledge
and and just to just comment on the contributions of
(41:26):
someone who's a decent human being, good cricketer and a
lot of fun and and we're the poor, poor for
him not being around. But that is life, I guess.
Speaker 2 (41:34):
And they've had impact on our lives in one way
or another and we thank them for that. The other
person who's just passed away Dave cansella who you will
have known to former CD bowler umpire father of Penny
and Roger Cainseller. He has passed away as well. And
I have a lot of memories of him going round
(41:55):
the domestic scene because he was an umpire player and
a very very quiet gentleman who always offered good, positive
thoughts on things.
Speaker 3 (42:07):
I wasn't aware of that brand. And I do remember
Dave Conseller one as a kid when when he was
bowling you know, mediums for for CD. But more importantly
he was an umpire when when I was coming into
first class cricket at the time, And you're right about that.
The one thing that I remember about him was he
(42:27):
was a quiet gentleman, tall man, but very gentle spirit
and just it was a very nice fellow and and
and he sticks in my memory for sure. So our
condolences to the Conseiller family. Lovely fellow. Yeah, and never
had a lot to say, but but but yeah, that
(42:49):
sticks in my memory for sure.
Speaker 2 (42:51):
Yeah. Yeah, our condolences to both families, Russell Robinson and
Dave Kinsella and fond memories for both those individuals. All right,
well you can, you can finish your coffee off, you
can put your feet up, you can get ready for
the test at trent Bridge, and I suppose you'll be
watching the highlights of the morning rather than sleeping through
(43:12):
the night watching.
Speaker 3 (43:13):
Well I do. I do actually tune into Jerry during
the night on the radio commentaries because I do quite
enjoy them, so I quite like that.
Speaker 2 (43:26):
The other thing is he's working for so many radio
stations over there. He's doing common NonStop commentary.
Speaker 3 (43:31):
I think does he know which one he's doing because
he's not getting the younger for a fellow who's a
very sprightly seventy four, he's going, okay as our Jerry.
Speaker 2 (43:41):
But happy birthday for the twenty first Jeremy Coney when
he turned at seventy four, so he's I'm sure celebrated
that in the appropriate fashion.
Speaker 3 (43:53):
Absolutely, Yeah, toasted Jerry and on what we call winter Solstice,
and of course the longest day in summer over there.
So there you go, twenty first to.
Speaker 2 (44:02):
Journey, shortest day in New Zealand. Enjoy yourself, most.
Speaker 3 (44:08):
Do we'll do, and look forward to look forward to
chatting again and maybe you wrapping up a two to
one series victory for our voice New Zealand.
Speaker 2 (44:19):
Thanks very much, Moose, Thank you very much. Also to
Daniel Norcross and to you Jerry. You've been sitting on there,
I since you've been enjoying this. I know you enjoyed
Test cricket, but I sense that you've had a real
enjoyment out of watching the proceedings in this three Test series.
(44:39):
I have, you know, lying on my beard in the
lounge watching the carry on. But it's great cricket. It's
great theater. It's what cricket to me is all about.
Forget your white ball, your colored stuff. This is great theater.
Speaker 5 (44:54):
Yeah, it is what it's I did.
Speaker 4 (44:57):
I did get a lot of pleasure, of course, a
lot more because New Zealand happened to play well and
they earned the victory and they were better. Now the
stronger side, I think, slightly stronger side, you know, in
this third Test match, hopefully it'll be a decent pitch
and it will be a little bit more even, I think,
(45:20):
but New Zealand will feel if they can, you know,
repeat that kind of performance again, they'll have a good chance.
Speaker 2 (45:29):
All Right, This up next week again. Enjoy Trembridge and
we'll talk again.
Speaker 5 (45:35):
We'll do ones look forward to it.
Speaker 2 (45:37):
Thanksumming.
Speaker 1 (45:48):
For more from News Talks at b Listen live on
air or online, and keep our shows with you wherever
you go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio.
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