April 25, 2026 • 17 mins
After much deliberation, the Labour Party has announced they'll back the India free trade agreement.
We do see cross party agreements, but just how important will bipartisanship be for this year's election?
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks'd
be so.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (00:11):
After much deliberation, the Labor Party announced that they'll back
the India Free Trade Deal. Look, we've seen cross party
corporation from time to time, but how just how does
bipartisanship play out and what's the potential for it, you know,
at this time of year when there's an election to
be one as well?
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Also, are there other.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
Issues where there should be could be or are is
more more cross party support anyway? Marris Williamson, he is
a former National Party minister among other things, and he's.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
With me right now. Morris, good afternoon, Good noon, Tim. Hey,
that India.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
Free Trade Agree agreement and the support from Labor just
quickly checking, was that genuine bipartisanship.
Speaker 4 (00:56):
Yes, I think so. I don't think between the two
major parties there's any real disagreement that foreign trade agreements
are really good for New Zealand. We will always gain
from getting our products into big markets and have been
having all the tariff barriers removed. There was always a
niggle around about a few bits what our investment would
(01:18):
have to be, and it turns out it doesn't have
to be. It's just an aspiration of what we will
try to do into India, a little bit about what
will happen with a whole lot of Indian students coming here.
But I think that's pretty well covered off. I don't
think one of the things that I really want to
get away straight away with you on by partisanship is
you would be just gobsmacked at the number of pieces
(01:38):
of legislation that passed through Parliament any one year that
were bipartisan. We agree on that year that's done, year,
voted on that. But yeah, agreed. It's only those sort
of show stoppers every now and then where there is
a big difference between the left and the right that
get to be brought to the public's attention. And I
don't think that trade agreements are one of those. We've
(01:58):
national was keen on the a free trade agreement with
China that Labor negotiated but has been just so beneficial.
We would have literally been completely off the map if
during COVID, if we hadn't had the free trade agreement
with China.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
Yeah, of course, I've been crossing out a few of
my questions. You jumped ahead on me a bit. They're
on the old partisanship. Do you go to it now
that's a good Did it just for appearances? Did it
actually need to be that hard? It looked like it
was hard work for labor to get there. We were
sort of waiting in suspense, even though commentators were saying, Oh,
they're going to do it, don't worry, But did they
sort of just need to go through the theater of
(02:36):
you know, appearing to do some due diligence and going, oh,
there's some things we're not happy with.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
But we'll do it.
Speaker 4 (02:41):
Well, there's there's always that little sort of test you.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Have to do.
Speaker 4 (02:45):
If it goes through and then there turns out to
be a really big sort of backlash because something went
wrong and it cost us a lot, you will be
caught up in the carnage. Well, you just walked it through.
You didn't seem to care. So you've got to put
a little bit of you know, a bit of analysis
and what are the areas, Where are the hot points,
what are they? What are the answers to those? Because
(03:06):
you're not doing your job as an opposition if you
don't do that. So I think labels will be committed
for finally getting to the right place and actually asking
some questions along the way. Good on them.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
Yeah, Okay, what do you make of Winston's opposition to it.
Speaker 4 (03:22):
Well, Winston's always had politically right. I was a caucus
colleague of him right back in the nineteen eighties, and
he's always had a very strong view about immigration and
how much damage it can cause to us. And we
have open immigration and the people are pouring in them,
and so he saw the part of the how many
Indian students would be able to come here and stay
(03:44):
on they'd graduated and so on. I don't agree with them.
I think immigration has been phenomenally beneficial to New Zealand.
I represent an electorate out here called Pakaranga, which is
a huge Asian population. I'm now the ward councilor for
the area which includes Botany and Pakanger electorate. They are
phenomenal citizens, add incredible value, as do the Indian population
(04:07):
and so on. I think that it's a bit rich
to believe that the migration is for any part of
our problem as an economy. Frankly, I think it's beneficial
to us.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
Yeah, I agree.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
Hey, Look you've touched on how much politicians agree with
each other quite a bit.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
And the cross party supports quite common if.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
You strip away the party labels and the public sort
of you know, rivalries. How much overlap do you think
there is actually between National and Labor? And you've observed
this over over the decades, of course, haven't you?
Speaker 2 (04:41):
Sorry to make us out, Sorry to say decades.
Speaker 4 (04:45):
I can walk in the forest and be the oldest
living thing there. So look, all I can tell you
is that the Overlapp's unbelievable. In fact, it got to
the point that the Overlapp had been a big crossover.
If you take what Muldoon and the National Party had
done during the nineteen seventies. He'd introduced things like sixty
six SI and the dollar marginal tax rate at twenty
(05:08):
two thousand dollars, you paid sixty six cents of your
dollar when you were earning twenty two thousand onwards. And
so what happened at the end of his nine years,
most of the National Party people were saying, well, what
the hell party am I supporting? Because that's most left
wing interventionist. He sold industrial disputes on the ninth floor.
Then came a Labor government with Roger Douglas, and they
(05:30):
did some of the most right wing free market private enterprise,
d deregulated and whatever. And so by the end of
the Muldoon period and then the Longey Douglas period, the
voters were just absolutely head spinning. And even today now
I can tell you there are some quite left wing
type memt for the National Party caucus who very much
(05:50):
don't like some of the hardline economic stuff. And there
are some reasonably moderate centrist right people in the Labor
Party and they do have a crossover. So it is
not fair to just say one is you know, right
over there on the right hand side, ones right over
There is a lot of commonality. In fact, if you
had free votes in the Parliament, which you don't, it's
(06:10):
always party whip, so you have to do what the
whip says or you're in trouble. You would find a
lot of Labor and a lot of National in the
same lobby, and another lot of Labor and National on
the other side of the lobby on a regular basis.
Speaker 3 (06:23):
So where I don't know if it's an easy question
to answer this, but where are the where are the
genuine ideological gaps between and we're focusing on the two
major parties. I'm aware, but where where are those genuine
ideological gaps.
Speaker 4 (06:36):
Well, they come to the big picture things like taxation.
National has always felt that your best to leave as
much money in the pockets of people as you can,
even though you've got a fund the health system and
the education system and the police and so on, and
Labor have always had a view of the more we
can actually take from you in tax and then make
decisions on your behalf. We will provide a better welfare state,
(07:00):
will provide free access to this, and so on. So
there's a very big ideological difference between the parties on taxation,
without doubt, there's another big ideological difference between them with
regards to education. National has always believe that they'll try
and do what's best for the parents and for the
kids and for their outcomes. Labors very very aligned, very
(07:22):
aligned with the two of the major unions for the tragedy,
so they're big fighters. And what's best for the teachers,
their pay rates, there's whatever. So there are ideological differences
on those big picture items. But if you get down
to foreign affairs, to defense, to environment, to a whole
(07:44):
range of things, it's very difficult to separate out some
of their views.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
So on this looking at the other parties, what are
the most unlikely partnerships or overlaps that you've seen, because,
for instance, I was having a chat with Chloe Swarbrick
last weekend and she at one stage almost sounded a
bit New Zealand thirsty, sort of talking about we want
New Zealand companies for doing this rather than overseas. I thought, God,
(08:11):
you sound like you know in New Zealand first, and
she said we are the true New Zealand first and
never made it to the news, but I thought that
was a hot take. I mean, are there what are
the surprising overlaps that you think there's potential for, or
in fact that there are.
Speaker 4 (08:27):
Well, I gained some of the history I can draw
on because I was there. I knew a Green Party
many many years ago with Rod Donald, Jeanette fit Simon's
and so on, who were truly an environmental party and
the questions they asked in the Parliament were about what
we're going to do to get better equality or water quality,
or what we were doing to save forrests and so on.
If I listen to the current Green Party, they are
(08:49):
an incredibly sort of social lefty intervention, and they're about
worried about Gaza. They are worried about a whole range
of things, and almost the environment doesn't even get mentioned
in most of their questions. Defund the police and all
sorts of social justice and so on. I don't know
how they would ever be able to coalesce with anything
(09:10):
on the other side of the aisle compared to what
an original Green Party that looked like it was. They're
worried about keeping the planet safe. So and the Maori
Party are so extreme in their racist views of things.
Maori should have their own parliament and we should close
down the prisons. So I don't see a coalition coming
from either of those two parties in their present state.
(09:32):
But I can tell you the Maori Party that I
worked with because I was a minister in a coalition
with the Maori Party, and that was Dame carry On
Aturia and Shirbete Sharples. They were fantastic people to work with.
They were always looking for what the best outcome for
their people were. But not with some ridiculous own the country.
(09:53):
You just a guess. Get out of here. We'll tell
you what we have. We'll have our own parliament. Get
rid of the prisons. They were really sensible and they
got some really quite good outcomes. The whole fun or
a thing that Tarry Atteria got through has made a
huge difference to sort of social service delivery and more
focused and more efficient. So you can find coalition partnerships
(10:16):
amongst what you would not expect. But right now I
think they're so polarized, and that's the biggest difference in
the coming election. In the past, you were always having
your votes skimmed off you by people on the other
side of the isle. Now I don't think the votes
are moving to the other side of the isle. National
is losing votes, but it's going to either New Zealand
(10:36):
First or to Act, so they're staying all on that
same side of the isle.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
It is interesting that I met Tarry Onaterarria in my
other career as a singer, and we had quite a
chat about politics, and it really surprised me because she
said a lot.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
Of people would be surprised to hear this.
Speaker 3 (10:49):
She said, but I really like John Key, We get
on great, he's a really good man and all that
sort of thing. And I was thinking, I don't know,
would we hear that sort of comment from leaders of
the party about the current I don't know.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
Look, we wouldn't, did we.
Speaker 4 (11:02):
No? But what I liked about the Marti Party in
those days, and there were others within them that weren't
the leaders, but they were good as well. You went
to a cabinet committee to discuss a paper, they were
so sensible about what they thought was a realistic outcome
for Mary, what they thought they could get out of
the paper, but without we wanted to be so racist
(11:22):
that white people don't even get a look. And they
wanted a really beneficial for New Zealand, but Maori would
benefit from it. And I sat there sometimes just looking
across the table at both of them and thinking, wow,
you guys are incredible.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
Yeah, well done.
Speaker 4 (11:35):
And if we had a Mary Party that was like that.
These days, I think you could easily have National Party
saying we could work with you to get good outcomes
for your people. Why but right, why.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
Has it changed?
Speaker 3 (11:47):
Because I've got a question here around you know, the
advent or the increasing amount of social media and cheap hits,
and is that making us more tribal? And you know,
we're all in each other our own echo chambers, and
we're getting more extreme and so therefore the parties, you know,
it was always getting to end up this way, or
what do you blame for this? Was it just personalities
(12:08):
of difficult you know people.
Speaker 4 (12:11):
I think personalities have become It used to be, you know,
way way way back, that the political party was the
only thing and there was no real personality individual type thing,
and now it's moved to personalities are at center. And
so when you've got extremist views being expressed and then
people who are angry at it fighting back with some rhetoric,
(12:32):
which is not helpful as well, because I think personality
politics gets you nowhere that you know, my father can
beat your father type debates go nowhere. But to try
to get it back onto what are the major policies,
the outcomes they produce. How do you get the outputs
that can create those outcomes is what I think the
public are looking for. The problem is, and I think
(12:53):
social media is a burg element of it. It's now
got down to sort of nasties, and every week there's
some really nasty little personality clips which I don't think
benefit the country whatsoever. And it would be good to
see them all get back to what I want from
New Zealand. How I think we can deliver that, and
I want your vote because these would be the outcomes
(13:15):
if we were part of a government. If you had
that clearly laid out from them all, I think there'd
be a bit of a different political rhetoric in the world.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:25):
Just lastly, this is just slightly shifting to the side there.
I mean, it's been an interesting week with Luxon and
the no confidence vote or the confidence vote?
Speaker 2 (13:33):
Should I say I.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
Actually thought that National it had a really good week,
and I have a suspicion watching the rhetoric that they've
decided Okay, yes we are in a coalition government, but
you want our vote, we want your vote, and we've
decided we kind of take the gloves off and go
for it.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
And I'm thinking National New Zealand first at least.
Speaker 4 (13:52):
Yeah. Our best analogy I always give people who don't
know the insides of politics only get to see it
from the outsider, is it's a bit like playing rugby
and you're in the session the season where you're playing
international rugby and all, and you're off and bunking down
in a room with someone and good friends with them,
and mates go to breakfast and so on, and then
comes a Super Rugby season and he's playing for the Hurricanes.
(14:14):
You're playing for the Crusaders, and all you've got to
do is try and beat the pulp out of the guy.
But he's your best mate when you were all as one.
So the coalition government is made up of Crusaders, Hurricanes, Chiefs, etc.
When the coalition government goes back to their individual parties
to fight and they've got an election to fight, they
have to get their votes, so you know you're after
(14:35):
the same vote as they are after. And so it
will always MMP will always make it difficult to just
you can't be nice. I wish other things that I.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
Wish I'd come up with that myself. I think that's
a brilliant analogy.
Speaker 3 (14:47):
I wonder if I wonder if the media get it,
because I watched that spat, you know, when Nikola had
said don't forget you know that Winston puts your cinder in,
and the opening thing of One News was like cracks
in the Coalition.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
I was like, that's not cracks in the coalition.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
I don't know, do they not get it?
Speaker 4 (15:03):
It has to be like that from now until the
seventh of November. It has to be because otherwise I'll
sit quietly, you'll take my votes, I'll be gone and
you'll have them. I've got to put my case strongly.
Winston was really clever too. He made his prime ministership
the first half and that meant that in the second half,
which is now, he's a lot more free. He wouldn't
(15:25):
have been as free as he was if he was
the deputy prime minister.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
To make the comments.
Speaker 4 (15:30):
But you're all rugby players, you're all but good mates
when you're on the All Black tour of Britain and
South Africa. But when you're now playing for your super
rugby teams, you'reing up to beat the pulp other bloke.
Speaker 3 (15:41):
Actually, I do have one lucky last because we're going
to have a chat about the Sale GP with Nick
Hill from Tartaki. What do you make of the government's
decision not to fund the sale GP as an Auckland
councilor changing your hats there?
Speaker 4 (15:53):
Well, I'm always very reticent to get into these things.
I'm a big fan of having a good set of
criteria that you lay out before you begin your funding
rounds and you say, here is a formula that will
be what will be beneficial to New Zealand, what will
be beneficial to Auckland, what will be good audience participation
and so on. Now we've got so many million into
(16:14):
this fund that we can here's the percentages we can
do when the applications come and they get assessed on
very rigid criteria. And I think that's what the government's done.
They offered the five million up to sale GP sale
GP I think foolishly came back and said, well we
want more. The moment they put up a higher bid
that took it out of the criteria range. So I'm
(16:36):
really reluctant to get into it because there's so many
there's so many good there's so many good bids. I mean,
there are so many things that the government could fund.
But if you've got a limited pot of money, you've
got to have something that's water tight tested. And if
people meet the criteria, they're through. And if they don't, now.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
We can all argue about them.
Speaker 3 (16:53):
Is there a bit secretive about the criteria, aren't they?
Because I mean Lincoln Park and Robie Williams, it's all commercially.
Speaker 4 (16:59):
Yeah, I don't quite know how any of that stuff
gets through at all in my view, but nevermine. But
it's I'm always reluctant because I've been inside there, and
I've said, God, if only the bloody public knew how
difficult it was when you've got a sort of limited
resource and an almost unlimited demand on you, and everybody
in every one of those cases puts up a good
(17:19):
argument why they'd be beneficial to Earth. It's bloody hard going.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
Hey Morris, thanks so much for your time. I really
appreciate it.
Speaker 4 (17:28):
Good to chat.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
For more from the Weekend Collective, Listen live to News
Talk ZB weekends from three pm, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks'd
be so.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (00:11):
After much deliberation, the Labor Party announced that they'll back
the India Free Trade Deal. Look, we've seen cross party
corporation from time to time, but how just how does
bipartisanship play out and what's the potential for it, you know,
at this time of year when there's an election to
be one as well?
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Also, are there other.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
Issues where there should be could be or are is
more more cross party support anyway? Marris Williamson, he is
a former National Party minister among other things, and he's.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
With me right now. Morris, good afternoon, Good noon, Tim. Hey,
that India.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
Free Trade Agree agreement and the support from Labor just
quickly checking, was that genuine bipartisanship.
Speaker 4 (00:56):
Yes, I think so. I don't think between the two
major parties there's any real disagreement that foreign trade agreements
are really good for New Zealand. We will always gain
from getting our products into big markets and have been
having all the tariff barriers removed. There was always a
niggle around about a few bits what our investment would
(01:18):
have to be, and it turns out it doesn't have
to be. It's just an aspiration of what we will
try to do into India, a little bit about what
will happen with a whole lot of Indian students coming here.
But I think that's pretty well covered off. I don't
think one of the things that I really want to
get away straight away with you on by partisanship is
you would be just gobsmacked at the number of pieces
(01:38):
of legislation that passed through Parliament any one year that
were bipartisan. We agree on that year that's done, year,
voted on that. But yeah, agreed. It's only those sort
of show stoppers every now and then where there is
a big difference between the left and the right that
get to be brought to the public's attention. And I
don't think that trade agreements are one of those. We've
(01:58):
national was keen on the a free trade agreement with
China that Labor negotiated but has been just so beneficial.
We would have literally been completely off the map if
during COVID, if we hadn't had the free trade agreement
with China.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
Yeah, of course, I've been crossing out a few of
my questions. You jumped ahead on me a bit. They're
on the old partisanship. Do you go to it now
that's a good Did it just for appearances? Did it
actually need to be that hard? It looked like it
was hard work for labor to get there. We were
sort of waiting in suspense, even though commentators were saying, Oh,
they're going to do it, don't worry, But did they
sort of just need to go through the theater of
(02:36):
you know, appearing to do some due diligence and going, oh,
there's some things we're not happy with.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
But we'll do it.
Speaker 4 (02:41):
Well, there's there's always that little sort of test you.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Have to do.
Speaker 4 (02:45):
If it goes through and then there turns out to
be a really big sort of backlash because something went
wrong and it cost us a lot, you will be
caught up in the carnage. Well, you just walked it through.
You didn't seem to care. So you've got to put
a little bit of you know, a bit of analysis
and what are the areas, Where are the hot points,
what are they? What are the answers to those? Because
(03:06):
you're not doing your job as an opposition if you
don't do that. So I think labels will be committed
for finally getting to the right place and actually asking
some questions along the way. Good on them.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
Yeah, Okay, what do you make of Winston's opposition to it.
Speaker 4 (03:22):
Well, Winston's always had politically right. I was a caucus
colleague of him right back in the nineteen eighties, and
he's always had a very strong view about immigration and
how much damage it can cause to us. And we
have open immigration and the people are pouring in them,
and so he saw the part of the how many
Indian students would be able to come here and stay
(03:44):
on they'd graduated and so on. I don't agree with them.
I think immigration has been phenomenally beneficial to New Zealand.
I represent an electorate out here called Pakaranga, which is
a huge Asian population. I'm now the ward councilor for
the area which includes Botany and Pakanger electorate. They are
phenomenal citizens, add incredible value, as do the Indian population
(04:07):
and so on. I think that it's a bit rich
to believe that the migration is for any part of
our problem as an economy. Frankly, I think it's beneficial
to us.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
Yeah, I agree.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
Hey, Look you've touched on how much politicians agree with
each other quite a bit.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
And the cross party supports quite common if.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
You strip away the party labels and the public sort
of you know, rivalries. How much overlap do you think
there is actually between National and Labor? And you've observed
this over over the decades, of course, haven't you?
Speaker 2 (04:41):
Sorry to make us out, Sorry to say decades.
Speaker 4 (04:45):
I can walk in the forest and be the oldest
living thing there. So look, all I can tell you
is that the Overlapp's unbelievable. In fact, it got to
the point that the Overlapp had been a big crossover.
If you take what Muldoon and the National Party had
done during the nineteen seventies. He'd introduced things like sixty
six SI and the dollar marginal tax rate at twenty
(05:08):
two thousand dollars, you paid sixty six cents of your
dollar when you were earning twenty two thousand onwards. And
so what happened at the end of his nine years,
most of the National Party people were saying, well, what
the hell party am I supporting? Because that's most left
wing interventionist. He sold industrial disputes on the ninth floor.
Then came a Labor government with Roger Douglas, and they
(05:30):
did some of the most right wing free market private enterprise,
d deregulated and whatever. And so by the end of
the Muldoon period and then the Longey Douglas period, the
voters were just absolutely head spinning. And even today now
I can tell you there are some quite left wing
type memt for the National Party caucus who very much
(05:50):
don't like some of the hardline economic stuff. And there
are some reasonably moderate centrist right people in the Labor
Party and they do have a crossover. So it is
not fair to just say one is you know, right
over there on the right hand side, ones right over
There is a lot of commonality. In fact, if you
had free votes in the Parliament, which you don't, it's
(06:10):
always party whip, so you have to do what the
whip says or you're in trouble. You would find a
lot of Labor and a lot of National in the
same lobby, and another lot of Labor and National on
the other side of the lobby on a regular basis.
Speaker 3 (06:23):
So where I don't know if it's an easy question
to answer this, but where are the where are the
genuine ideological gaps between and we're focusing on the two
major parties. I'm aware, but where where are those genuine
ideological gaps.
Speaker 4 (06:36):
Well, they come to the big picture things like taxation.
National has always felt that your best to leave as
much money in the pockets of people as you can,
even though you've got a fund the health system and
the education system and the police and so on, and
Labor have always had a view of the more we
can actually take from you in tax and then make
decisions on your behalf. We will provide a better welfare state,
(07:00):
will provide free access to this, and so on. So
there's a very big ideological difference between the parties on taxation,
without doubt, there's another big ideological difference between them with
regards to education. National has always believe that they'll try
and do what's best for the parents and for the
kids and for their outcomes. Labors very very aligned, very
(07:22):
aligned with the two of the major unions for the tragedy,
so they're big fighters. And what's best for the teachers,
their pay rates, there's whatever. So there are ideological differences
on those big picture items. But if you get down
to foreign affairs, to defense, to environment, to a whole
(07:44):
range of things, it's very difficult to separate out some
of their views.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
So on this looking at the other parties, what are
the most unlikely partnerships or overlaps that you've seen, because,
for instance, I was having a chat with Chloe Swarbrick
last weekend and she at one stage almost sounded a
bit New Zealand thirsty, sort of talking about we want
New Zealand companies for doing this rather than overseas. I thought, God,
(08:11):
you sound like you know in New Zealand first, and
she said we are the true New Zealand first and
never made it to the news, but I thought that
was a hot take. I mean, are there what are
the surprising overlaps that you think there's potential for, or
in fact that there are.
Speaker 4 (08:27):
Well, I gained some of the history I can draw
on because I was there. I knew a Green Party
many many years ago with Rod Donald, Jeanette fit Simon's
and so on, who were truly an environmental party and
the questions they asked in the Parliament were about what
we're going to do to get better equality or water quality,
or what we were doing to save forrests and so on.
If I listen to the current Green Party, they are
(08:49):
an incredibly sort of social lefty intervention, and they're about
worried about Gaza. They are worried about a whole range
of things, and almost the environment doesn't even get mentioned
in most of their questions. Defund the police and all
sorts of social justice and so on. I don't know
how they would ever be able to coalesce with anything
(09:10):
on the other side of the aisle compared to what
an original Green Party that looked like it was. They're
worried about keeping the planet safe. So and the Maori
Party are so extreme in their racist views of things.
Maori should have their own parliament and we should close
down the prisons. So I don't see a coalition coming
from either of those two parties in their present state.
(09:32):
But I can tell you the Maori Party that I
worked with because I was a minister in a coalition
with the Maori Party, and that was Dame carry On
Aturia and Shirbete Sharples. They were fantastic people to work with.
They were always looking for what the best outcome for
their people were. But not with some ridiculous own the country.
(09:53):
You just a guess. Get out of here. We'll tell
you what we have. We'll have our own parliament. Get
rid of the prisons. They were really sensible and they
got some really quite good outcomes. The whole fun or
a thing that Tarry Atteria got through has made a
huge difference to sort of social service delivery and more
focused and more efficient. So you can find coalition partnerships
(10:16):
amongst what you would not expect. But right now I
think they're so polarized, and that's the biggest difference in
the coming election. In the past, you were always having
your votes skimmed off you by people on the other
side of the isle. Now I don't think the votes
are moving to the other side of the isle. National
is losing votes, but it's going to either New Zealand
(10:36):
First or to Act, so they're staying all on that
same side of the isle.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
It is interesting that I met Tarry Onaterarria in my
other career as a singer, and we had quite a
chat about politics, and it really surprised me because she
said a lot.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
Of people would be surprised to hear this.
Speaker 3 (10:49):
She said, but I really like John Key, We get
on great, he's a really good man and all that
sort of thing. And I was thinking, I don't know,
would we hear that sort of comment from leaders of
the party about the current I don't know.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
Look, we wouldn't, did we.
Speaker 4 (11:02):
No? But what I liked about the Marti Party in
those days, and there were others within them that weren't
the leaders, but they were good as well. You went
to a cabinet committee to discuss a paper, they were
so sensible about what they thought was a realistic outcome
for Mary, what they thought they could get out of
the paper, but without we wanted to be so racist
(11:22):
that white people don't even get a look. And they
wanted a really beneficial for New Zealand, but Maori would
benefit from it. And I sat there sometimes just looking
across the table at both of them and thinking, wow,
you guys are incredible.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
Yeah, well done.
Speaker 4 (11:35):
And if we had a Mary Party that was like that.
These days, I think you could easily have National Party
saying we could work with you to get good outcomes
for your people. Why but right, why.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
Has it changed?
Speaker 3 (11:47):
Because I've got a question here around you know, the
advent or the increasing amount of social media and cheap hits,
and is that making us more tribal? And you know,
we're all in each other our own echo chambers, and
we're getting more extreme and so therefore the parties, you know,
it was always getting to end up this way, or
what do you blame for this? Was it just personalities
(12:08):
of difficult you know people.
Speaker 4 (12:11):
I think personalities have become It used to be, you know,
way way way back, that the political party was the
only thing and there was no real personality individual type thing,
and now it's moved to personalities are at center. And
so when you've got extremist views being expressed and then
people who are angry at it fighting back with some rhetoric,
(12:32):
which is not helpful as well, because I think personality
politics gets you nowhere that you know, my father can
beat your father type debates go nowhere. But to try
to get it back onto what are the major policies,
the outcomes they produce. How do you get the outputs
that can create those outcomes is what I think the
public are looking for. The problem is, and I think
(12:53):
social media is a burg element of it. It's now
got down to sort of nasties, and every week there's
some really nasty little personality clips which I don't think
benefit the country whatsoever. And it would be good to
see them all get back to what I want from
New Zealand. How I think we can deliver that, and
I want your vote because these would be the outcomes
(13:15):
if we were part of a government. If you had
that clearly laid out from them all, I think there'd
be a bit of a different political rhetoric in the world.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:25):
Just lastly, this is just slightly shifting to the side there.
I mean, it's been an interesting week with Luxon and
the no confidence vote or the confidence vote?
Speaker 2 (13:33):
Should I say I.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
Actually thought that National it had a really good week,
and I have a suspicion watching the rhetoric that they've
decided Okay, yes we are in a coalition government, but
you want our vote, we want your vote, and we've
decided we kind of take the gloves off and go
for it.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
And I'm thinking National New Zealand first at least.
Speaker 4 (13:52):
Yeah. Our best analogy I always give people who don't
know the insides of politics only get to see it
from the outsider, is it's a bit like playing rugby
and you're in the session the season where you're playing
international rugby and all, and you're off and bunking down
in a room with someone and good friends with them,
and mates go to breakfast and so on, and then
comes a Super Rugby season and he's playing for the Hurricanes.
(14:14):
You're playing for the Crusaders, and all you've got to
do is try and beat the pulp out of the guy.
But he's your best mate when you were all as one.
So the coalition government is made up of Crusaders, Hurricanes, Chiefs, etc.
When the coalition government goes back to their individual parties
to fight and they've got an election to fight, they
have to get their votes, so you know you're after
(14:35):
the same vote as they are after. And so it
will always MMP will always make it difficult to just
you can't be nice. I wish other things that I.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
Wish I'd come up with that myself. I think that's
a brilliant analogy.
Speaker 3 (14:47):
I wonder if I wonder if the media get it,
because I watched that spat, you know, when Nikola had
said don't forget you know that Winston puts your cinder in,
and the opening thing of One News was like cracks
in the Coalition.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
I was like, that's not cracks in the coalition.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
I don't know, do they not get it?
Speaker 4 (15:03):
It has to be like that from now until the
seventh of November. It has to be because otherwise I'll
sit quietly, you'll take my votes, I'll be gone and
you'll have them. I've got to put my case strongly.
Winston was really clever too. He made his prime ministership
the first half and that meant that in the second half,
which is now, he's a lot more free. He wouldn't
(15:25):
have been as free as he was if he was
the deputy prime minister.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
To make the comments.
Speaker 4 (15:30):
But you're all rugby players, you're all but good mates
when you're on the All Black tour of Britain and
South Africa. But when you're now playing for your super
rugby teams, you'reing up to beat the pulp other bloke.
Speaker 3 (15:41):
Actually, I do have one lucky last because we're going
to have a chat about the Sale GP with Nick
Hill from Tartaki. What do you make of the government's
decision not to fund the sale GP as an Auckland
councilor changing your hats there?
Speaker 4 (15:53):
Well, I'm always very reticent to get into these things.
I'm a big fan of having a good set of
criteria that you lay out before you begin your funding
rounds and you say, here is a formula that will
be what will be beneficial to New Zealand, what will
be beneficial to Auckland, what will be good audience participation
and so on. Now we've got so many million into
(16:14):
this fund that we can here's the percentages we can
do when the applications come and they get assessed on
very rigid criteria. And I think that's what the government's done.
They offered the five million up to sale GP sale
GP I think foolishly came back and said, well we
want more. The moment they put up a higher bid
that took it out of the criteria range. So I'm
(16:36):
really reluctant to get into it because there's so many
there's so many good there's so many good bids. I mean,
there are so many things that the government could fund.
But if you've got a limited pot of money, you've
got to have something that's water tight tested. And if
people meet the criteria, they're through. And if they don't, now.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
We can all argue about them.
Speaker 3 (16:53):
Is there a bit secretive about the criteria, aren't they?
Because I mean Lincoln Park and Robie Williams, it's all commercially.
Speaker 4 (16:59):
Yeah, I don't quite know how any of that stuff
gets through at all in my view, but nevermine. But
it's I'm always reluctant because I've been inside there, and
I've said, God, if only the bloody public knew how
difficult it was when you've got a sort of limited
resource and an almost unlimited demand on you, and everybody
in every one of those cases puts up a good
(17:19):
argument why they'd be beneficial to Earth. It's bloody hard going.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
Hey Morris, thanks so much for your time. I really
appreciate it.
Speaker 4 (17:28):
Good to chat.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
For more from the Weekend Collective, Listen live to News
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