February 7, 2026 • 14 mins
Moa Point has been testing as non-compliant for all but two months of the last two years.
The signs were there, but no one seemed to raise concern before the wastewater plant started pumping raw sewage into the south coast of Wellington.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks a'b.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
As you know, Wellington's main wastewater treatment plant has failed.
It's leading to sewage being discharged into the sea and
beach is being closed in the middle of summer's Now
memrged that Moer Point has been tested has been testing
as non compliant for all but two months of the
past two years, so the warning signs of their So
what was done, if anything, to address obvious concerns raised
(00:33):
before sewage started being pumped into Wellington's south coast. There's
still no clear timeframe for when Wellingtonians can safely enjoy
their beaches again. And right now the outlook's not too
flash anyway, lots to get into their joining us now.
He is chair of Wellington Water and his name's Nick
Leggert and he joins me. Now, Nick good afternoon. Hang
on a second, I just need to get a fader
(00:54):
turned up and we'll say hello to Nick. Nick Gooday, Hello, Tim.
So what's the latest.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Well, the latest is that the crews are still cleaning
out the plant because what happened was you had a
lot of waste backed up filled up the wastewater treat plant.
There was no out valve and that will take probably
another few days, but it's clearing the sludge out and
then obviously decontaminating it and getting it so it can
(01:24):
be assessed to understand exactly what the flix will involve
and how long that will take. Obviously, getting the long
pipe out into the cook straight going again on Thursday
was a big wind in a pretty appalling wider situation.
But that means that that waste that's that's also been
(01:46):
screened of so off plastics like that that's going out
into and being taken by the currents into sort of
deeper water. Not ideal, of course, but it's a better
situation that was which was just flowing out onto the
in the short pipe, which was basically onto the rocks
on the south coast. So it's it's a much you know,
(02:06):
we're in a bit of a holding pattern. Wanted to
understand as well what the impacts are on the water quality,
so testing is being done every day. What we're asking,
of course, is for people to stay away from the beaches,
to not gather any shellfish or seafood, and not even
walk along the beach. At this stage. It's an abundance
(02:26):
of caution. But it's just we just need to understand
a pattern or a trend from the testing over in
a few more days.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Yeah, sure, Hey, I guess now you've got the long
pipe that's discharging the steerage. How long is it going
to be discharging raw sewage albeit further out to see.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
Well I think that could be months, because what you've
got is a plant that is a sort of a
three or four or five story building, which is unlike
any other plant that I've known, But it's because of
the topography of Wellington. And when it backed up, it
filled the building up and it fried a lot of
the electrical A circuits. And what's what needs to happen
(03:10):
once it's probably cleaned out as an assessment of that,
so what is actually involved, what's broken, what what isn't
and then we will be in a better position to
sort of understand what's involved in fixing and perhaps how
long that might take.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Does that mean that this the long fell, Does it
remove the threat to the beaches or are we talking
about potential for beaches to be closed for life?
Speaker 3 (03:34):
Look, I wouldn't want to say. My sense is it's
about when we're when the sort of public health officials
are comfortable with the test results that they're seeing and
we're all guided by that, and the public will be
guided by that, I assume. But it's it's really just
just just seeing, you know what what comes of that.
(03:56):
I think people, you know, it's somemer People want to
want to be enjoying the beach, but to do that,
we've just got to understand what the water quality is
like over a number of days, and then what public
health say at the end of that.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Yeah, did anyone see this coming or did any anyone
worry that was coming?
Speaker 3 (04:17):
Well, your listeners will know that Wellington has chronically underinvested
in its water and wastewater networks and that's why, you know,
obviously it loses a lot of it's fresh water, about
thirty seven percent every day. And you know, the biggest
risk to Wellington other than water loss that was identified
(04:39):
by Wellington Water was a catastrophic failure of a wastewater
treatment plant and that, sadly is what has happened. So, yes,
it was it a case, this was yeah, this was foreseeable,
but you know, this is what happens when you have
(05:00):
you know, decades worth of underinvestment in renewing the assets
that you've already got, especially critical ones that do such
an important job.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
Where does the buck stop with that?
Speaker 3 (05:11):
Well? I think what's been very positive is that Andrew
Little has talked about the need for an inquiry. That
needs to be a pretty fast sight of inquiry to
look at the root causes of this problem and this failure.
To me, that's where you know, we've got to put
everything on the table and understand what caused it and
(05:31):
then obviously people of people will see where responsibility lies
and that will be determined by the inquiring.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
So because the company Violia, which operates mower point day
to day, when they they advised that there were some
non compliance issues, didn't they? When did Wellington Water first
know that the plant was reported repeatedly noncompliant?
Speaker 3 (05:55):
Well Wellington Water provides that information to not just the
council that owns the plant and funds it, but to
the entire region, as were on all plants, So it
was pretty pretty well known. And the reasons why we're
well known and so this is this is the model
(06:15):
we've got is broken in Wellington. So you know, in
about four months time there will be a new water
entity called Tiaqi why, and that will take the assets
from the council and it will take the service management
that Wellington Water does and it will combine all of
that under one roof and that will be the start
(06:35):
over many years of hopefully a company that will be
able to properly fund its assets and maintain them and
replace them. And we'll be looking obviously, we've got high
hopes for that. So it's this is an appalling thing
to happen. What I would say is that there is
(06:56):
I think a long term fix on the way and
the form of water reform and local water done well
is obviously the government's policy. It's happening in many parts
of you know, there are this this change is happening
in many parts of the country and we'll be looking
you know, we're looking forward to that obviously. But it's
it's about getting the people who own the assets to
(07:16):
also make be in control of funding the assets as well,
and that separation I think probably been part of the
problem here.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
Just read I mean, I'm not sure I'm reading between
the lines or reading all around the lines, but it
sounds like that what we've witnessed. It my point, it
was sort of was it inevitable to you when you
heard the news? Do you think, oh, well, it is
going to happen sometime, And unfortunately, today's the day.
Speaker 3 (07:41):
When I heard the news, I thought, I mean, it's
you know, you can't there's no expectations where there's no
kind of sighing and thinking, well, it was going to happen.
You are, you're shocked, and we've you know, as a
Wellington Water has responded. I think, you know, by getting
out and being just laying it all out there and
(08:02):
telling people about what's gone on and what we know.
But I wouldn't say a sense of evitability. But as
I say, you know, I mean our chief executive pet Doperty,
who's been on the frontal of the media. You know
when he started in the job, he said that that'sked
what the biggest feares were and you know, other than
losing fresh water from the pipes, it was a catastrophic
(08:25):
failure of a wastewater treatment plant. So yeah, like, this
is the risk that unfortunately is sitting with those people
who provide those of us who are involved in providing
or governing water services. This is the this is the
reality we sit with and it's it's because money has
not been invested over time in improving and renewing these
(08:49):
plants and pipes.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
Was would hindsight in high if we had hindsight or foresight?
Should I say no, what we know now? Would there
have been anything that could have been done to prevent it?
And should there have been anything done?
Speaker 1 (09:05):
Well?
Speaker 3 (09:06):
I think the structural issues were probably there along, you know,
they build up over time, but you would be looking
at things like in an inquiry, perhaps the design of
the plant and topics like that. But look, I don't know.
I actually I just can't speculate on the you know,
(09:27):
what the causes might be or and how many of
how many things led to us? And I think that's
the benefit of a strong an independent inquiry.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
Because I mean, there's been talking about Veolia, what sort
of job they've been doing, but that sort of day
to day running. Aren't they under the they're your contractors?
But I mean, is there is there something that sheets
home to them when it comes to the problems that
we've seen, or is this going way further back to
you know, they might have been managing the infrastructure, but
the infrastructure itself.
Speaker 3 (09:59):
I just wouldn't I just I just don't. I think
this is a you know, this is where an inquire
where he needs to tease us out. And I know
that's frustrating because everybody wants an answer now. But I
think answers with these kind of failures tend to be
a bit more complex. And what we've got to do
is really take time to understand what the cause was
(10:20):
at its heart. And I you know, well, one thing,
I will say, you know, there could be more than
one cause identified. I don't say that because I know.
I say that just because I think this is this
is a big failure, and usually big failures have you know,
there are often many reasons.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
Are you worried about something big happening in the short
term somewhere you know, are you worried about another disaster?
And are there other warning signs that you're thinking, Hell,
we need to patch this and this and that.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
Look, we know that other waste of water treatment plants
in the region, and I suspect around the country face
a similar risk. What I hope for is, though, that
all of our minds are focused on the fact that
we need these new water organizations to be well funded
so they can get on and increase the investment to
get this key infrastructure improved and to lower that risk
(11:14):
over time of this kind of thing happening again.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
If I was just a casual news listener, there are
a couple of things I just want to not necessarily
pick you up on, but just delve into a bit
further so, because there's been talk about you know, there
was talk of course with labor with three Waters and
the co governents, and they all got to put to
put to one side. And you've mentioned the creation of
a new body. How can you put can you just
(11:39):
there was a part of me that and I don't
mean this in response to you describing it, there was
a part of me if I was a casual news
listener that would just roll my eyes and go, God,
we'll go another bloody body to worry about. I mean,
shuffling the deck chairs on the Titanic was the immediate
sort of thing that came to mind. How is a
new body genuinely going to make a difference in terms
of knowing who's doing what, how we're paying for it,
(12:01):
and who's responsible at the end.
Speaker 3 (12:03):
Of the day. Because well, it's a really good question,
and please you you've asked it to me because at
the moment, the council owns the assets and it takes
money off ratepayers to fix or to maintain the assets.
And then it's well Into Water, which is owned by
the councils. It's not some separate company, but it's owned
(12:24):
by the councils. Its job is to provide advice on
theirs assets. The councils then make the decision on how
much is spent, and Wellington Water then carries out the
work under their instruction. And this new body, tiaki Wi
will be well own the asset and it will also
manage the asset and make those fun and it will
build customers directly, so it will have its own revenue
(12:48):
stream as well as the ownership of the assets, and
it will be able to do the work itself and
make decisions itself without the politics of individual councils are
driving the agenda.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
Are you nervous about the bill it should rate payers
and users? Are you noticed about the bill that's going
to be coming their way?
Speaker 3 (13:09):
Yes, i am. I'm always nervous when rate payers are
asked to stump up big bills. But what I want
to understand first is what's involved in the fix and
how long it's going to take because getting getting getting
proper treatment for Wellington's waste, so we're not pumping barely
treated surgeons. The environment as the first is the first,
(13:33):
and we've got to we've got to improve.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
What do you I mean you have a role of
overseeing national infrastructure as well. It's an interesting mixture of roles.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
I don't have a role, and I run the advocacy groups.
So sorry, I mean I put.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
It so sort of washy wash Okay. Is Wellington sort
of a standalone not a standalone, but it seems to
have been the obvious headline case with problems all the time.
Are you concerned about other areas in the country and
the country from what you know with waste, water and
infrastructure challenges?
Speaker 3 (14:11):
Yes, absolutely, this is I mean, I think Wellington is
particularly bad, but I don't. I don't think it's limited
to Wellington at all. It's this is a national problem
and that's why we've got a national solution with local
with local water done well. You know we're going to
be implemented later in the year.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
Okay, Hey, Nick, I really appreciate your time and best
of luck with hopefully some some good news announcements short
of that soon or later.
Speaker 3 (14:38):
We're hoping for that. Thanks, thanks for your time.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
Cheer okay byee. That is Nick Leggett. He is the
Wellington Water chair.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
For more from the Weekend Collective, listen live to News
Talk d BE weekends from three pm, or follow the
podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks a'b.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
As you know, Wellington's main wastewater treatment plant has failed.
It's leading to sewage being discharged into the sea and
beach is being closed in the middle of summer's Now
memrged that Moer Point has been tested has been testing
as non compliant for all but two months of the
past two years, so the warning signs of their So
what was done, if anything, to address obvious concerns raised
(00:33):
before sewage started being pumped into Wellington's south coast. There's
still no clear timeframe for when Wellingtonians can safely enjoy
their beaches again. And right now the outlook's not too
flash anyway, lots to get into their joining us now.
He is chair of Wellington Water and his name's Nick
Leggert and he joins me. Now, Nick good afternoon. Hang
on a second, I just need to get a fader
(00:54):
turned up and we'll say hello to Nick. Nick Gooday, Hello, Tim.
So what's the latest.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Well, the latest is that the crews are still cleaning
out the plant because what happened was you had a
lot of waste backed up filled up the wastewater treat plant.
There was no out valve and that will take probably
another few days, but it's clearing the sludge out and
then obviously decontaminating it and getting it so it can
(01:24):
be assessed to understand exactly what the flix will involve
and how long that will take. Obviously, getting the long
pipe out into the cook straight going again on Thursday
was a big wind in a pretty appalling wider situation.
But that means that that waste that's that's also been
(01:46):
screened of so off plastics like that that's going out
into and being taken by the currents into sort of
deeper water. Not ideal, of course, but it's a better
situation that was which was just flowing out onto the
in the short pipe, which was basically onto the rocks
on the south coast. So it's it's a much you know,
(02:06):
we're in a bit of a holding pattern. Wanted to
understand as well what the impacts are on the water quality,
so testing is being done every day. What we're asking,
of course, is for people to stay away from the beaches,
to not gather any shellfish or seafood, and not even
walk along the beach. At this stage. It's an abundance
(02:26):
of caution. But it's just we just need to understand
a pattern or a trend from the testing over in
a few more days.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Yeah, sure, Hey, I guess now you've got the long
pipe that's discharging the steerage. How long is it going
to be discharging raw sewage albeit further out to see.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
Well I think that could be months, because what you've
got is a plant that is a sort of a
three or four or five story building, which is unlike
any other plant that I've known, But it's because of
the topography of Wellington. And when it backed up, it
filled the building up and it fried a lot of
the electrical A circuits. And what's what needs to happen
(03:10):
once it's probably cleaned out as an assessment of that,
so what is actually involved, what's broken, what what isn't
and then we will be in a better position to
sort of understand what's involved in fixing and perhaps how
long that might take.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Does that mean that this the long fell, Does it
remove the threat to the beaches or are we talking
about potential for beaches to be closed for life?
Speaker 3 (03:34):
Look, I wouldn't want to say. My sense is it's
about when we're when the sort of public health officials
are comfortable with the test results that they're seeing and
we're all guided by that, and the public will be
guided by that, I assume. But it's it's really just
just just seeing, you know what what comes of that.
(03:56):
I think people, you know, it's somemer People want to
want to be enjoying the beach, but to do that,
we've just got to understand what the water quality is
like over a number of days, and then what public
health say at the end of that.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Yeah, did anyone see this coming or did any anyone
worry that was coming?
Speaker 3 (04:17):
Well, your listeners will know that Wellington has chronically underinvested
in its water and wastewater networks and that's why, you know,
obviously it loses a lot of it's fresh water, about
thirty seven percent every day. And you know, the biggest
risk to Wellington other than water loss that was identified
(04:39):
by Wellington Water was a catastrophic failure of a wastewater
treatment plant and that, sadly is what has happened. So, yes,
it was it a case, this was yeah, this was foreseeable,
but you know, this is what happens when you have
(05:00):
you know, decades worth of underinvestment in renewing the assets
that you've already got, especially critical ones that do such
an important job.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
Where does the buck stop with that?
Speaker 3 (05:11):
Well? I think what's been very positive is that Andrew
Little has talked about the need for an inquiry. That
needs to be a pretty fast sight of inquiry to
look at the root causes of this problem and this failure.
To me, that's where you know, we've got to put
everything on the table and understand what caused it and
(05:31):
then obviously people of people will see where responsibility lies
and that will be determined by the inquiring.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
So because the company Violia, which operates mower point day
to day, when they they advised that there were some
non compliance issues, didn't they? When did Wellington Water first
know that the plant was reported repeatedly noncompliant?
Speaker 3 (05:55):
Well Wellington Water provides that information to not just the
council that owns the plant and funds it, but to
the entire region, as were on all plants, So it
was pretty pretty well known. And the reasons why we're
well known and so this is this is the model
(06:15):
we've got is broken in Wellington. So you know, in
about four months time there will be a new water
entity called Tiaqi why, and that will take the assets
from the council and it will take the service management
that Wellington Water does and it will combine all of
that under one roof and that will be the start
(06:35):
over many years of hopefully a company that will be
able to properly fund its assets and maintain them and
replace them. And we'll be looking obviously, we've got high
hopes for that. So it's this is an appalling thing
to happen. What I would say is that there is
(06:56):
I think a long term fix on the way and
the form of water reform and local water done well
is obviously the government's policy. It's happening in many parts
of you know, there are this this change is happening
in many parts of the country and we'll be looking
you know, we're looking forward to that obviously. But it's
it's about getting the people who own the assets to
(07:16):
also make be in control of funding the assets as well,
and that separation I think probably been part of the
problem here.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
Just read I mean, I'm not sure I'm reading between
the lines or reading all around the lines, but it
sounds like that what we've witnessed. It my point, it
was sort of was it inevitable to you when you
heard the news? Do you think, oh, well, it is
going to happen sometime, And unfortunately, today's the day.
Speaker 3 (07:41):
When I heard the news, I thought, I mean, it's
you know, you can't there's no expectations where there's no
kind of sighing and thinking, well, it was going to happen.
You are, you're shocked, and we've you know, as a
Wellington Water has responded. I think, you know, by getting
out and being just laying it all out there and
(08:02):
telling people about what's gone on and what we know.
But I wouldn't say a sense of evitability. But as
I say, you know, I mean our chief executive pet Doperty,
who's been on the frontal of the media. You know
when he started in the job, he said that that'sked
what the biggest feares were and you know, other than
losing fresh water from the pipes, it was a catastrophic
(08:25):
failure of a wastewater treatment plant. So yeah, like, this
is the risk that unfortunately is sitting with those people
who provide those of us who are involved in providing
or governing water services. This is the this is the
reality we sit with and it's it's because money has
not been invested over time in improving and renewing these
(08:49):
plants and pipes.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
Was would hindsight in high if we had hindsight or foresight?
Should I say no, what we know now? Would there
have been anything that could have been done to prevent it?
And should there have been anything done?
Speaker 1 (09:05):
Well?
Speaker 3 (09:06):
I think the structural issues were probably there along, you know,
they build up over time, but you would be looking
at things like in an inquiry, perhaps the design of
the plant and topics like that. But look, I don't know.
I actually I just can't speculate on the you know,
(09:27):
what the causes might be or and how many of
how many things led to us? And I think that's
the benefit of a strong an independent inquiry.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
Because I mean, there's been talking about Veolia, what sort
of job they've been doing, but that sort of day
to day running. Aren't they under the they're your contractors?
But I mean, is there is there something that sheets
home to them when it comes to the problems that
we've seen, or is this going way further back to
you know, they might have been managing the infrastructure, but
the infrastructure itself.
Speaker 3 (09:59):
I just wouldn't I just I just don't. I think
this is a you know, this is where an inquire
where he needs to tease us out. And I know
that's frustrating because everybody wants an answer now. But I
think answers with these kind of failures tend to be
a bit more complex. And what we've got to do
is really take time to understand what the cause was
(10:20):
at its heart. And I you know, well, one thing,
I will say, you know, there could be more than
one cause identified. I don't say that because I know.
I say that just because I think this is this
is a big failure, and usually big failures have you know,
there are often many reasons.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
Are you worried about something big happening in the short
term somewhere you know, are you worried about another disaster?
And are there other warning signs that you're thinking, Hell,
we need to patch this and this and that.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
Look, we know that other waste of water treatment plants
in the region, and I suspect around the country face
a similar risk. What I hope for is, though, that
all of our minds are focused on the fact that
we need these new water organizations to be well funded
so they can get on and increase the investment to
get this key infrastructure improved and to lower that risk
(11:14):
over time of this kind of thing happening again.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
If I was just a casual news listener, there are
a couple of things I just want to not necessarily
pick you up on, but just delve into a bit
further so, because there's been talk about you know, there
was talk of course with labor with three Waters and
the co governents, and they all got to put to
put to one side. And you've mentioned the creation of
a new body. How can you put can you just
(11:39):
there was a part of me that and I don't
mean this in response to you describing it, there was
a part of me if I was a casual news
listener that would just roll my eyes and go, God,
we'll go another bloody body to worry about. I mean,
shuffling the deck chairs on the Titanic was the immediate
sort of thing that came to mind. How is a
new body genuinely going to make a difference in terms
of knowing who's doing what, how we're paying for it,
(12:01):
and who's responsible at the end.
Speaker 3 (12:03):
Of the day. Because well, it's a really good question,
and please you you've asked it to me because at
the moment, the council owns the assets and it takes
money off ratepayers to fix or to maintain the assets.
And then it's well Into Water, which is owned by
the councils. It's not some separate company, but it's owned
(12:24):
by the councils. Its job is to provide advice on
theirs assets. The councils then make the decision on how
much is spent, and Wellington Water then carries out the
work under their instruction. And this new body, tiaki Wi
will be well own the asset and it will also
manage the asset and make those fun and it will
build customers directly, so it will have its own revenue
(12:48):
stream as well as the ownership of the assets, and
it will be able to do the work itself and
make decisions itself without the politics of individual councils are
driving the agenda.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
Are you nervous about the bill it should rate payers
and users? Are you noticed about the bill that's going
to be coming their way?
Speaker 3 (13:09):
Yes, i am. I'm always nervous when rate payers are
asked to stump up big bills. But what I want
to understand first is what's involved in the fix and
how long it's going to take because getting getting getting
proper treatment for Wellington's waste, so we're not pumping barely
treated surgeons. The environment as the first is the first,
(13:33):
and we've got to we've got to improve.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
What do you I mean you have a role of
overseeing national infrastructure as well. It's an interesting mixture of roles.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
I don't have a role, and I run the advocacy groups.
So sorry, I mean I put.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
It so sort of washy wash Okay. Is Wellington sort
of a standalone not a standalone, but it seems to
have been the obvious headline case with problems all the time.
Are you concerned about other areas in the country and
the country from what you know with waste, water and
infrastructure challenges?
Speaker 3 (14:11):
Yes, absolutely, this is I mean, I think Wellington is
particularly bad, but I don't. I don't think it's limited
to Wellington at all. It's this is a national problem
and that's why we've got a national solution with local
with local water done well. You know we're going to
be implemented later in the year.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
Okay, Hey, Nick, I really appreciate your time and best
of luck with hopefully some some good news announcements short
of that soon or later.
Speaker 3 (14:38):
We're hoping for that. Thanks, thanks for your time.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
Cheer okay byee. That is Nick Leggett. He is the
Wellington Water chair.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
For more from the Weekend Collective, listen live to News
Talk d BE weekends from three pm, or follow the
podcast on iHeartRadio.
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