February 22, 2026 • 10 mins
On Sunday the Government announced a plan to grant police the power to issue move-on orders to help deal with disorderly and dangerous behaviour in public places.
The move-on orders apply to anyone displaying disorderly or intimidating behaviour, impeding someone entering a business, breaching the peace, begging, rough sleeping, and behaviour indicating an intent to inhabit a public place.
Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith joined Tim Beveridge to chat about what this announcement means in reality.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks,
I'd be right.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Today the government has announced a plan to grant police
the power to issue move on orders. These orders are
going to allow the police to direct people away from
public areas for up to twenty four hours if they're
deemed disruptive, distressing or potentially harmful. The minister says this
will address disruptible, threatening behavior in our town's centers, but
(00:33):
critics already raising concerns about the impact on vulnerable groups
and so let's get into it. Minister for Justice Paul
Goldsmith is with me now, good afternoon. Hey, so how
would you describe the problem that this legislation is actually addressing.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
Well, look, I mean we've obviously, over the last couple
of years had a real focus on fixing the basics
in terms of restoring law and order, and we've done
sentencing reform, we've done with gang patches for the bands
and all those issues. But one thing that consistently still
comes up is people's concern around anti social behavior in
(01:12):
our town squares, in our main streets, particularly not just
an aupand but all around the country. And you know,
New Zealand is a fair minded people. We want to
look after those who are most in need. We do
need to kind of reclaim our town centers and city
streets for the enjoyment of people who work there, who
(01:33):
live there and want to come and have some fun.
And that's the problem that we're trying to deal with.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
What do you say to critics who say, look, this
is just sweeping our social issues under the rug or
under a different rug.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
Well, I mean, if this was the only thing we
were doing about it, then that would be fair, but
of course it's not. You know, on behalf of all
New Zealand is the government of There's hundreds of millions
of dollars on welfare programs, of the housing first policies
to get homeless people into a housing accommodate. There's so
much that we do to support the city missions and
(02:10):
that's important. And you know, this is not an easy
area and there's more we've got to do, particularly in
the mental health space, but we've got a lot of
tools there, but we're missing a couple of tools on
ways to deal with a very small group of people
who who don't accept any of that help and think
that they are entitled to set up on the main
(02:33):
street and Queen Street and create an environment where people
just don't feel safe.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
What specific powers were the police lacking.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
It's I mean, obviously if people have been committing a
crime like assault or then the police have been able
to deal with it. But with people who who didn't
meet that threshold, but we're you know, occupying the street
and making it difficult for people to get around and
(03:05):
total created an environment where we're an anti social environment
and also a range of behaviors and shouting and causing
trouble and intimidating people on the streets that wasn't fully covered.
And so that's the what we're dealing with here. And
so they'll be able to say, somebody, you know, you've
got to move. And you know, we're not being cise
(03:27):
about exactly where the police have discretion around that, but
they've got to move a reasonable distance and for the
first time they'll have the ability to deal with those
situations more effectively.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
Where do they move them to. Is it just to
get out, you know, and get out of Dodge moved
to Sorry to put it that way, but I move
to a different part of town or what they where
do they have.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
To move to a reasonable distance. Now that what that
means will depend where you are. Of course, if you're
on the main street of Napier or Arniston North, it
might be different to Auckland, which might be different to
another circumstance. But you know, it might be a kiometer
up the road, or it might be out of the
central business district. And then people will say, well, is
(04:06):
that just moving the problem somewhere else? And but the
point is that if you carry on those same behaviors
further down the road or in another suburb, well then
you'll be asked to move again. And it's about making
a very clear mess, is that there are certain behaviors
that are not acceptable and just carrying on as we
are at the moment, it's not going to change anything,
(04:28):
I guess.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
Okay, So, for instance, if somebody's you've got to move
someone on from Craig Queenstreet, let's stay begging or rough sleeping.
So where do you anticipate they're going to go up
to sort of the university or are we talking about
they're going to have to stop doing what they're doing
and they have to move several kilometers and how do
they get there?
Speaker 3 (04:45):
Well, our goal is to stop them doing what they're doing.
And there are a few genuinely homeless peoples and the
police will have the ability to point them in the
direction of the help that they need. Frankly, there are
also some people who have got a place to live,
they've got a place to go, and they choose to
(05:06):
be doing what they're doing, and at the moment we
let them. And we're going to change that now. Of course,
we're drafting legislation to do this and that'll be ready
to introduce them to the House in a couple of
months and it'll go after a select committee. So it's
not going to happen overnight. We've got to go through
a care fee to make sure we get it right
(05:27):
and you know, to hear people's opinions on it.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
So you mentioned people who actually do have an option
to go somewhere, and you would anticipate that maybe they'll
move on and not be heard from from a day
or two or three. What about people? So when the
police come across people who are genuinely you know, they're
four and on hard times, they're in desperate need, and
all they do they're sleeping rough because they've got nowhere
to go. What happens following that first encounter with police,
(05:51):
when they're like, you've got to move on.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
What happens, Well, I mean the police will obviously have
discretion and operationalize that over the next few months while
this leg space was forward. But there are obvious see
many areas of support that government currently funds that we've
got some house in first places. Back in September, we're
nounced another three hundred places that would be funding around
(06:15):
the country. Not all of those are being used up,
so that there are places where people can go. That's
the difficulty and what these where this comes and is
if people refuse to talk to the police, don't engage,
tell them to shove off and do nothing. Now, they
will have, frankly, the ability to be arrested and find
(06:35):
Now of course, the easiest way to avoid that is
to follow the instructions of the police. And of course,
you know, if there are things that need to be
dealt with, then the police are very well well experienced
and and of course you know, going back a year
or so ago when we were introduced the game patch
fan we had all these same questions about house it's
(06:56):
actually going to work. It's a convert and that's worked
very well and we've got every confidence that the police
will be able to operationalize this.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
Do you feel how do you feel about sort of
lumping and people who are literally genuinely threatening and disruptive
with those who are just in the wrong place.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
Well, look, I mean I think we've been hearing consistently.
You know, we've had the Minister of Advisory Group on
Retail climb up and down the country and we've had
a very consistent message and the people in the tourist
industry and the the the passenger cruise line is coming
in and everywhere, we've had a consistent message that there
(07:35):
is over the last few years developed in our town
square is a sense of disorder on our streets. Now
that there's been an improvement, there's no question, but we
want to it's still a long way to go. And
you know, I heard from people businesses in town who
say that you know, they're actually moving because our workers
(07:55):
don't feel safe leaving the office at four o'clock and
fighting their way through a proud of people who are
you know, just frankly intimidating and disorderly and making the
place feel uninviting. And you know, Ultimately what this is
about is reclaiming the pavements and town squares of this
country so for the enjoyment of people who live there
(08:16):
and work there and come and visit.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
What sort of consultation and feedback or input have you
had from community groups and social services such as the
Salvation Army and the like.
Speaker 3 (08:30):
Well, my colleagues Mark Mitchell and Simeon Brown in the
Auckland context of regular meetings with everybody across the city
who we are working on these issues, and you know
there be a range of views, of course, there's always
a range of views about this, but it's about providing
(08:51):
the connecting the services with those who are in need.
And so there's been lots of conversation of course through
the SELEEC committee process of the opportunity.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
More and how will you measure success.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
Well, we'll measure susy when New Zealanders tell us that
they feel very positive and safe in our CBDs, in
our town squares, and that's what we're striving for that
you know we want I mean Auckland for example, it's
not just about Auckham's, it's about the whole country. But
you know, Aukham's got a huge year coming up. I've
(09:25):
got the Conventions Center up, We've got the CRL coming back.
We want people to come into the city and feel
great about it. This is the duel in our crown
as a country and we want people to feel good
and at the moment it's still it is still not
there and that's why we're bringing this in.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
Hey, thanks so much for your time, PAULA really appreciate it.
That is Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith on the government's announcement
of a plan to grant Polus the power to issue
move on orders. We're going to do some talkback on
this after ourn next interview. And basically, I mean the
question simple, do you support the government's plan?
Speaker 3 (09:55):
Now?
Speaker 2 (09:56):
Just remember and it's always with reminding ourselves this is
a plan. There's a few months of select committees and
get the legislation refined. But the government has announced that
plan to give the police that further power to basically
get the rough. I mean, basically I'm say about moving
on the rough, beggars, rough sleeping and begging. I mean
(10:17):
there's the move on orders for people displaying disorderly, disruptible,
threatening and intimidating behavior. I imagine that's already covered by
the existing laws. But this just expands the ability of
the police to issue those move on orders I mean,
And we'll dig into it. You can give your thoughts
on eight hundred eighty ten eighty on whether you support
(10:37):
the government's plans broadly speaking, I do, but it's of
course the proof of the puddings in the eating.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
For more from the Weekend Collective, listen live to news
Talk ZB weekends from three pm, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks,
I'd be right.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Today the government has announced a plan to grant police
the power to issue move on orders. These orders are
going to allow the police to direct people away from
public areas for up to twenty four hours if they're
deemed disruptive, distressing or potentially harmful. The minister says this
will address disruptible, threatening behavior in our town's centers, but
(00:33):
critics already raising concerns about the impact on vulnerable groups
and so let's get into it. Minister for Justice Paul
Goldsmith is with me now, good afternoon. Hey, so how
would you describe the problem that this legislation is actually addressing.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
Well, look, I mean we've obviously, over the last couple
of years had a real focus on fixing the basics
in terms of restoring law and order, and we've done
sentencing reform, we've done with gang patches for the bands
and all those issues. But one thing that consistently still
comes up is people's concern around anti social behavior in
(01:12):
our town squares, in our main streets, particularly not just
an aupand but all around the country. And you know,
New Zealand is a fair minded people. We want to
look after those who are most in need. We do
need to kind of reclaim our town centers and city
streets for the enjoyment of people who work there, who
(01:33):
live there and want to come and have some fun.
And that's the problem that we're trying to deal with.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
What do you say to critics who say, look, this
is just sweeping our social issues under the rug or
under a different rug.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
Well, I mean, if this was the only thing we
were doing about it, then that would be fair, but
of course it's not. You know, on behalf of all
New Zealand is the government of There's hundreds of millions
of dollars on welfare programs, of the housing first policies
to get homeless people into a housing accommodate. There's so
much that we do to support the city missions and
(02:10):
that's important. And you know, this is not an easy
area and there's more we've got to do, particularly in
the mental health space, but we've got a lot of
tools there, but we're missing a couple of tools on
ways to deal with a very small group of people
who who don't accept any of that help and think
that they are entitled to set up on the main
(02:33):
street and Queen Street and create an environment where people
just don't feel safe.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
What specific powers were the police lacking.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
It's I mean, obviously if people have been committing a
crime like assault or then the police have been able
to deal with it. But with people who who didn't
meet that threshold, but we're you know, occupying the street
and making it difficult for people to get around and
(03:05):
total created an environment where we're an anti social environment
and also a range of behaviors and shouting and causing
trouble and intimidating people on the streets that wasn't fully covered.
And so that's the what we're dealing with here. And
so they'll be able to say, somebody, you know, you've
got to move. And you know, we're not being cise
(03:27):
about exactly where the police have discretion around that, but
they've got to move a reasonable distance and for the
first time they'll have the ability to deal with those
situations more effectively.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
Where do they move them to. Is it just to
get out, you know, and get out of Dodge moved
to Sorry to put it that way, but I move
to a different part of town or what they where
do they have.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
To move to a reasonable distance. Now that what that
means will depend where you are. Of course, if you're
on the main street of Napier or Arniston North, it
might be different to Auckland, which might be different to
another circumstance. But you know, it might be a kiometer
up the road, or it might be out of the
central business district. And then people will say, well, is
(04:06):
that just moving the problem somewhere else? And but the
point is that if you carry on those same behaviors
further down the road or in another suburb, well then
you'll be asked to move again. And it's about making
a very clear mess, is that there are certain behaviors
that are not acceptable and just carrying on as we
are at the moment, it's not going to change anything,
(04:28):
I guess.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
Okay, So, for instance, if somebody's you've got to move
someone on from Craig Queenstreet, let's stay begging or rough sleeping.
So where do you anticipate they're going to go up
to sort of the university or are we talking about
they're going to have to stop doing what they're doing
and they have to move several kilometers and how do
they get there?
Speaker 3 (04:45):
Well, our goal is to stop them doing what they're doing.
And there are a few genuinely homeless peoples and the
police will have the ability to point them in the
direction of the help that they need. Frankly, there are
also some people who have got a place to live,
they've got a place to go, and they choose to
(05:06):
be doing what they're doing, and at the moment we
let them. And we're going to change that now. Of course,
we're drafting legislation to do this and that'll be ready
to introduce them to the House in a couple of
months and it'll go after a select committee. So it's
not going to happen overnight. We've got to go through
a care fee to make sure we get it right
(05:27):
and you know, to hear people's opinions on it.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
So you mentioned people who actually do have an option
to go somewhere, and you would anticipate that maybe they'll
move on and not be heard from from a day
or two or three. What about people? So when the
police come across people who are genuinely you know, they're
four and on hard times, they're in desperate need, and
all they do they're sleeping rough because they've got nowhere
to go. What happens following that first encounter with police,
(05:51):
when they're like, you've got to move on.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
What happens, Well, I mean the police will obviously have
discretion and operationalize that over the next few months while
this leg space was forward. But there are obvious see
many areas of support that government currently funds that we've
got some house in first places. Back in September, we're
nounced another three hundred places that would be funding around
(06:15):
the country. Not all of those are being used up,
so that there are places where people can go. That's
the difficulty and what these where this comes and is
if people refuse to talk to the police, don't engage,
tell them to shove off and do nothing. Now, they
will have, frankly, the ability to be arrested and find
(06:35):
Now of course, the easiest way to avoid that is
to follow the instructions of the police. And of course,
you know, if there are things that need to be
dealt with, then the police are very well well experienced
and and of course you know, going back a year
or so ago when we were introduced the game patch
fan we had all these same questions about house it's
(06:56):
actually going to work. It's a convert and that's worked
very well and we've got every confidence that the police
will be able to operationalize this.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
Do you feel how do you feel about sort of
lumping and people who are literally genuinely threatening and disruptive
with those who are just in the wrong place.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
Well, look, I mean I think we've been hearing consistently.
You know, we've had the Minister of Advisory Group on
Retail climb up and down the country and we've had
a very consistent message and the people in the tourist
industry and the the the passenger cruise line is coming
in and everywhere, we've had a consistent message that there
(07:35):
is over the last few years developed in our town
square is a sense of disorder on our streets. Now
that there's been an improvement, there's no question, but we
want to it's still a long way to go. And
you know, I heard from people businesses in town who
say that you know, they're actually moving because our workers
(07:55):
don't feel safe leaving the office at four o'clock and
fighting their way through a proud of people who are
you know, just frankly intimidating and disorderly and making the
place feel uninviting. And you know, Ultimately what this is
about is reclaiming the pavements and town squares of this
country so for the enjoyment of people who live there
(08:16):
and work there and come and visit.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
What sort of consultation and feedback or input have you
had from community groups and social services such as the
Salvation Army and the like.
Speaker 3 (08:30):
Well, my colleagues Mark Mitchell and Simeon Brown in the
Auckland context of regular meetings with everybody across the city
who we are working on these issues, and you know
there be a range of views, of course, there's always
a range of views about this, but it's about providing
(08:51):
the connecting the services with those who are in need.
And so there's been lots of conversation of course through
the SELEEC committee process of the opportunity.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
More and how will you measure success.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
Well, we'll measure susy when New Zealanders tell us that
they feel very positive and safe in our CBDs, in
our town squares, and that's what we're striving for that
you know we want I mean Auckland for example, it's
not just about Auckham's, it's about the whole country. But
you know, Aukham's got a huge year coming up. I've
(09:25):
got the Conventions Center up, We've got the CRL coming back.
We want people to come into the city and feel
great about it. This is the duel in our crown
as a country and we want people to feel good
and at the moment it's still it is still not
there and that's why we're bringing this in.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
Hey, thanks so much for your time, PAULA really appreciate it.
That is Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith on the government's announcement
of a plan to grant Polus the power to issue
move on orders. We're going to do some talkback on
this after ourn next interview. And basically, I mean the
question simple, do you support the government's plan?
Speaker 3 (09:55):
Now?
Speaker 2 (09:56):
Just remember and it's always with reminding ourselves this is
a plan. There's a few months of select committees and
get the legislation refined. But the government has announced that
plan to give the police that further power to basically
get the rough. I mean, basically I'm say about moving
on the rough, beggars, rough sleeping and begging. I mean
(10:17):
there's the move on orders for people displaying disorderly, disruptible,
threatening and intimidating behavior. I imagine that's already covered by
the existing laws. But this just expands the ability of
the police to issue those move on orders I mean,
And we'll dig into it. You can give your thoughts
on eight hundred eighty ten eighty on whether you support
(10:37):
the government's plans broadly speaking, I do, but it's of
course the proof of the puddings in the eating.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
For more from the Weekend Collective, listen live to news
Talk ZB weekends from three pm, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
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