May 24, 2026 • 40 mins
Retirement is the time most people dream of, the days where you no longer need to work or study, and you can enjoy a slow and simple life. But what does it actually take to retire?
And, when Super is under threat, and the only stable thing about the global economic climate is its instability, can we rely on the pension being there when we're ready to retire?
Author of Money Matters Amanda Morrall chats to Tim Beveridge about how much money you really need to retire.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks,
I'd be with money.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
There are certain things that recur but actually might have
you might have heard, and if you didn't, at the
end of this hour, I'd encourage you goun check out
the interview I had in the chat I had with
Cameron Baggray because as far as just talking about what
the budget's about and what we can anticipate in the
challenges in New Zealand's has got, I think that I
couldn't imagine anyone enunciating it in a clear, understandable way
(00:33):
for the average should have I was going to say
the average plunker, and I mean that jokingly in terms
of reference to myself, but the average person just to
understand what the budget's all about and what we can
look forward to and the challenges we've got. But one
of the issues that Cameron Baggory did touch on when
we were chatting about it was, you know, on the
retirement age and look, we're not going to get into
it from the angle that he talked about.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
That was because I asked him a question and said, look.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
If Nichola Willis didn't care about getting re elected, what
should you do and he said, well, you know, he
needs to address the age of retirement. So we're not
going to talk about the policies of government should enact,
but we want to have your cause. I know one
hundred and eighteen eighty and text nine two nine two
on retirement and in fact, when you're going to retire,
(01:19):
because retirement's the time most people Well, actually, it's interesting
do people most people dream of retirement or do they
dream of thinking when I do eventually retire, it's going
to be a time when I no longer need to
work or study and I can enjoy a slow and simple.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
Life, is it.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
That's an interesting take on it actually, But what does
it actually take to retire? How much money do we
realistically need to survive retirement, let alone thrive in it?
And I could account for half your pension simply if
you're continuing to pay for health insurance. So the simple
question is, you know, because there's a question about super
(01:55):
maybe being under threat one day, when are you retiring?
What are your plans? And is it because of the
money or is it because you know what, I like
doing what I do and I'm just going to keep
active until I can't be active any longer, and will
your key we save it, will your pension, your savings,
whatever scheme you've got, will it be enough? And would
(02:18):
it be enough if the pension went away? We want
to know your thoughts on eight hundred ten eighty text
nine nine two and joining us to discuss this. Well,
it's probably one of the bigger issues regarding money that
every New Zealand is going to face eventually, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (02:33):
Anyway?
Speaker 2 (02:34):
It is Amanda Morale, How are you, Amanda? Nice to
see you.
Speaker 4 (02:39):
Good to see you retiring the time that you were
going to introduce me there it is so I know.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
Sorry, I thought we'd God flying me.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
We have talked about We have talked about retirement a bit,
and look, I've said I'm not going to be retiring
when I'm sixty five because I won't be able to
afford to.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
But I'll be honest, if I.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Had all the money in the world, I still don't
think I would retire. I would want to keep doing
something that I really enjoyed and something that was lack
on occupation.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
What are your thoughts on it?
Speaker 4 (03:10):
I think people idealize retirement and particularly if they despise
their job or find their you know, their job difficult
in some capacity. But it's funny. Earlier this week chatting
with a group of ladies, one of whom was a
very successful entrepreneur who sold their business. Could have retired,
but this happens time and time of game, particularly the
(03:31):
ambitious people who like to keep their you know, their
brain engaged, et cetera. You know, she was retired less
than six months but bored and you know, got back
in the game.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
Was she sixty five or was she one of those.
Speaker 4 (03:42):
And yeah, she's she's over sixty five and just has
the energy, the desire and interest in you know, staying active.
So I guess again it comes down to a do
you have to I mean, ideally, when it comes to retirement,
it should be your choice, right, so, to the best
of your ability, you want to be prepared for that.
(04:03):
But these days, and it's an recently common scenario that
you're seeing for the reason I've just outlined that people
want to keep working. But also there's going to be
a good chunk of the population. We know that from
all the research and data in New Zone that they
just won't be ready to retire. So there's going to
be basically a two stream, I think situation in New
Zealand over the next ten to twenty years.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
What are your thoughts on retirement yourself. I mean, you're
still quite away from it, a way away from it.
But is it sixty five something that you would I mean,
do you think I'm not that you think about it,
because unless you're really getting close to retirement, maybe you
don't think about it. But do you think about sixty
five as being the age at which you would retire?
Speaker 4 (04:43):
I think when you know you're young, like say, twenty
sixty five feels ancient and seems like a very long
way away. And so when you get to our age
and the closer you get to that horizon, all of
a sudden, you're reevaluating what that number actually means to you.
But as apart from the biological number in the aging process,
(05:03):
it really comes down to your own personal inclinations. And
I think in this general topic of retirement, one size
does not so in terms of you know, your your propensity,
your capacity, your interest, your preparedness, all that. So we've
got some good numbers that we can kind of, you know,
discuss tonight in terms of what it would take to
(05:25):
retire and when and what the shortfalls have been identified
between New Zealand super and Savings private savings. Are you key?
We server? So there's a lot to work with. So
I'm excited to get into this.
Speaker 3 (05:36):
Are you.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
Oh yeah, so look every here's here's the first thing
for listeners as well that it's been one of those
I wouldn't say it's a throwaway line, but the sort
of stated amount of like, you know, you should really
be retiring with a million dollars in the bank, and
(05:57):
actually I don't know if I don't know how how
much a million dollars is when it comes to depending
on what sort of retirement you have, because how far
does a million dollars go if you sort of let's
say you're going to live to eighty five, so you
know you've got twenty years of life before you know,
(06:19):
things get into that stage where you're winding down. Of course,
you know there are people living to one hundred and
five these days, so who knows what happened that.
Speaker 4 (06:26):
There was a time, probably you know, in your twenties
or your thirties, where you thought a million dollars sounded
like a huge number and you could ease a tire onund.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
One hundred thousand dollars was a huge amount of money
I remember when I was a teenager.
Speaker 4 (06:37):
Yeah, But sadly these days, I'm not trying to minimize
the value of a million dollars, but with tax inflation
and what you've just pointed out longevity, that is sort
of the clincher there in terms of how much that
money will last. And in addition to that, it's how
well you've prepared, how well you've played the game prior
to that. So Massive University has done a lot of
(07:00):
work in the space and looked at current the current
cohort of New Zealand Super new in its to identify
what their actual expenses are and that and they do
it by looking at people living in the city versus
the provinces and those who've got, you know, just biggerly
scraping by and those who have a little bit of luxury.
They call it a choice, and there's some interesting there's
(07:23):
a gap in both those areas, whether you're living in
the province or or the city, and how much the
New Zealand super will afford for you and how much
extra you're going to have depending on how much you've saved.
And a million bucks is basically the difference between what
the current cohort will need if they're living and that's
(07:44):
a single person by the way, a two person household
rather in like Auckland or you know, Wellington would need
between to bridge the differences do and what they get
from the New Zealand super and what they're going to
need to grow old together and afford a few perks.
And the scary thing about this, all this research is
(08:06):
based on the assumption that you are rent and or
a mortgage free. So this is what I'm saying, like,
how much will a million how far were a million
dollars go? It really depends on whether your mortgage in
or rent free and how much and your lifestyle right, Yeah,
you know, there's a huge range between how some people live.
Some people like to go be going overseas twice a year.
(08:26):
Some people are very happy to eat vegetables out of
their garden and go for local walks. So horses for
courses about how much.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
May actually what are the basic expenses that people wouldn't
think about because it's easy just to go talking in
lump sums, it doesn't really tell us much. You go
a million bucks and then you sort of think, well,
hopefully that'll work. I wonder how many people have actually
broken it down into with regard to whether you try
(08:55):
and you know, how much you bite into the principle
versus the interest you earn on that principle as well,
because I would imagine that if interest rates are kept low,
then million bucks, okay, you might be making. You could
make maybe thirty thousand dollars after text, possibly in a
good center, in a good situation. But then you might decide, well,
(09:15):
actually that's not going to be enough, so I'll have
to pull out another thirty grand of principle or something
just to get by plus my super got it?
Speaker 3 (09:22):
What's the equations? Well, on the basis.
Speaker 4 (09:24):
Okay, So here here's a little reality about the current
average kiwis ofver balance in New Zealand. And average is
not mean. But is it worth thirty three thousand dollars?
So that's not a lot, okay, But that again, that's
an average. So some people have more than that, some
people have less, But it's nowhere close to what the
research has I done. It is what you will require
(09:46):
between bridging the difference between your super payments and what
it is going to take to live and the killers,
as we all know, recently have been you know, inflation
on food, petrols another big one. Pretty much everything has
gone up. Your utility bill, insurances, you name it, and
take well if you want to go anywhere.
Speaker 3 (10:07):
I'll be honest.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
That's the thing that frightens me is I know what
we pay for health insurance, and it feels like that's
a luxury now because it is so expensive. But it's
one of those things you know, you can you bear
to ever let it go because the day you cancel it,
it's like, oh, bad luck to them. If you had
your health insurance, we could have done these, you know,
could have replaced your hip for your knee or whatever.
Speaker 4 (10:31):
Well, I think it'll get done. It just may be
you're waiting two or three years. Well, if you don't
have insurance.
Speaker 3 (10:35):
Well that's that is.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
That's one of the terrible dilemmas people have because if
you're retired and if you do need something that assists
with your mobility, I would imagine one way to end
up not being particularly healthy as an older person is
restricting your movement.
Speaker 4 (10:50):
So the again, you want to stay healthy because again
another again consideration for how much money do you need
is okay, are you going to stay healthy? Right? And
a lot of people it's well known or under insurance
in this country too, so you may not of that
health insurance. So a you want to the best of
your meiality, you want to save well, you want to
keep yourself in good working order, you know, so you're
(11:13):
not just burning out and burning bright presumably if you
enjoy life and you want to enjoy long life. So
there's lots of little factors and variables feeding into the
whole situation. It's not quite as straightforward, but I think
big picture is it's it's been well flagged that New
Zealanders need to save more, and save earlier and save often,
(11:35):
which is why the government has raised the kiwisaver contribution
rates up to three and a half and then they're
going up because they're trying to push more New Zealanders
to save.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
I wonder what the average key we save a balance
would be for people over the age of fifty.
Speaker 4 (11:50):
They've got that data. I don't have it at my
fingertips on a break. I'll dig it up for you.
It maybe a little bit higher, but you'd be surprised
how low it is overall, and it's low compared to
what our peers are doing in our Australia, Canada, the UK,
the US because they've been out this invested savings game
(12:11):
a lot longer than we have. And so remember, while
kV SEVER is seventeen years old now, I think it's
in relative terms of very young investment product. And you
still see a lot of people trying to understand the
basics of kiv SEVER whilst overseas they've been you know,
it's been well taught in schools and well educated at
the dinner table about the need for saving into your
(12:33):
retirement fund. Plus they do have pensions outside of it.
Speaker 3 (12:35):
It's amazing.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
I've got an old a colleague haven't spoken to for years.
He's a little chunk older than me, but he's hit
retirement and I saw a post that he was. Exchanged
a few messages with him just to say hi, and
he was like, I'm loving retirement. I'm just loving it
because he's been in Australia. Oh sorry, I should have mentioned.
(12:57):
He's been in Australia most of his life, working in
either theater or teaching, and he just seem to me
to be totally stress free. It's like because of the
scheme that they have and I think, gosh, we are
so far behind.
Speaker 4 (13:11):
That we are behind, and you know, this is where
we're trying to catch up. There's a lot of education
around the necessity to save more and also choosing the
right type of fund. So people are panicking and by
the way, you don't need to panic right away. Should
just like you know, get your head wrapped around your
actual numbers, and so you can go into your for
if you might have savings outside a kV saver, of course,
(13:33):
but keV saver, if that's all you've got, find out
what your balance is. They do a projection these days
based on you know, what your current contribution rates, what
you're going to have at sixty five, and in addition
to that, they'll show you what you can expect to
get from that on a weekly basis, with or without
the New Zealand super So it gives you a good
idea of what you're going to have. The thing is
(13:53):
that you know you talked about what are you going
to do at sixty five? Most people don't want to
think about getting old. They don't want to know about it.
They put their cord in thiss had and it's just
that's their strategy is I'm just going to prote.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
That's actually one of the questions I just want to
throw out there, hands up and look, I don't think
there's any shame at admitting this, because I don't think
you'll be alone. How many people out there look at
the retirement age and you and what a man is
talking about? You know, do those calculations? Could you even
bear to because I'll be honest, I don't think I
could bear to do the calculations on what I have
(14:27):
and what I need to do. And I don't think
it's even ahead in the sand thing. It's just I
don't think it's great, and I don't really need to
know how tragic it is. I'm being honest with you.
Speaker 4 (14:37):
Okay, Tim, we're going to get you under the retirement
sort of retirement calculator doing the break and bingo bango.
You're going to get those numbers right away.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
How how much of an effort are you taking out
there to actually get the facts or you're just thinking,
you know what, I'll stick my three percent and or
my four percent of the KEII saver and fingers crossed.
I mean, how many times do I say fingers crossed
on the show. Oh, eight hundred and eighty ten eighty,
we're talking about retirement and the retirement age.
Speaker 3 (15:05):
Give us a call. We'd love to hear from you.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
I'm with a Randa Morale. It's twenty two and a
half past five. News Talk said B. News Talk said, B,
when are you going to retire?
Speaker 3 (15:13):
How much do you actually need?
Speaker 2 (15:15):
We're going to dig into some facts with I'm not sure.
In fact, I gave Amanda time to check onto some
of those things. He was going to look it in
the break so where I was busy just chatting about stuff.
So we'll take your course first. Eight hundred and eighty
ten eighty Colin, Hello.
Speaker 5 (15:30):
Hello, how are you?
Speaker 6 (15:31):
I was just wondering.
Speaker 5 (15:34):
These things over the internet and things saying that you
need a million dollars to retire, And when I sit
down and work agad, I'm just thinking that is it lunacy?
I mean, as long as it doesn't include your family home.
I just can't work out how much you would why
you would need so much, And to put that figger
(15:55):
in front of people just seems so unfair.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
Uh oh, because well I don't know how far where
you are in return in terms of half.
Speaker 5 (16:06):
Hours away or two years ago and somewhere between. I mean,
I'll be south of a million and north of five hundred,
but that won't include the family home.
Speaker 3 (16:16):
But oh, okay, well that sounds like.
Speaker 5 (16:20):
But I say, you need a million to survive anything
anytime I sort of try, won't even get close to that.
Speaker 4 (16:30):
Okay, Yeah, I think that number does get banded out.
But it's not a golden rule by any means. It
really is dependent on your own personal circumstances. And you know,
some people, I'm sure you know, spend a heck of
a lot of money. Others are very frugal and can
get by and you know they don't go out seven
dollars coffees all that stuff. And also there's a health
(16:51):
considerations that we were discussing previously. You know, if your
grandkids are overseas, all those things. So I mean, I
can get that you that may irk you, And I
get how the house, and that's a very good point,
is an asset that could be sold and downsized to
free up some cash. So you know, there's there's different
(17:11):
ways to skin a cat, so to speak, when it
comes to retirement. I know it's a terrible expression but
I think if you're a younger person listening, it's the
time to think, oh, I should take this stuff seriously,
even though I never think I'm going to get old,
and you know, start saving now, because if they take
action when they're twenty and make those, you know, higher contributions,
(17:32):
they're going to be laughing by the time of fifty five.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
Colin, are you are you worried or irritated at the
million dollars?
Speaker 5 (17:39):
Irritated? I suppose to be honest, because I just yeah,
I mean, if you divide, even if you worked the
principal out over twenty years and made a weey bit
of interest, it's an insane amount of money each week.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
Well, what's an insane amount of money for you?
Speaker 5 (17:58):
Well, I would get out it would be about seventeen
or eighteen hundred dollars a week in the hand I'd
have to take out of that million dollars to get
it back to zero by the time I was eighty five,
And that doesn't include the super.
Speaker 3 (18:11):
How long do you think?
Speaker 2 (18:12):
Actually, it's interesting you say eighty five because I threw
eighty five out there. Maybe I don't know what the
stats are on average life expectancy, but of course, as
you get closer to, you know, the final years of
your life, you'd probably do less anyway, you probably have
a cheaper lifestyle. But are you planning to retire at
sixty five? And are you banking eighty five?
Speaker 3 (18:34):
Is it for you?
Speaker 5 (18:36):
No? No, I'm not thinking of retiring at sixty five.
And no, I'm probably thinking eighty five will be my cutoff.
I would have thought, yeah.
Speaker 3 (18:43):
My cutoff. I love a good euphemism. What's your cutoff
about eighty five?
Speaker 2 (18:51):
So what are you What are you going to do
with work? Are you going to work just because you
enjoy working? Or are you doing it for the money
or what will push you past six?
Speaker 5 (18:59):
It's just it's hard to stop and do nothing. I feel,
I don't know what you do. If you actually stop
at sixty You've got to have something, don't you just stop?
Speaker 3 (19:08):
I one hundred percent agree with you.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
I almost wonder, Colin, if the concept of retirement as
was presented to us twenty thirty forty years ago, there's bollocks.
Speaker 4 (19:18):
I think it is a model.
Speaker 6 (19:21):
Yeah, it's gone.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
It's gone, thanks Colin, Yeah, good on it. By the way,
I know, with these conversations, and I mean this sincerely
that if you are working on your hands and knees
or in a really tough manual job, look, ideally you
managed to move on from those sorts of roles. If
you're in a construction role or plumber, or we can
think of a myriad of jobs which are physically demanding.
(19:45):
So we know that that's sixty five from some people
as like God, I just can't wait to reach there.
But ideally, I mean, outside of that, I do think
that retirement's sort of It's a funny thing, isn't it
that there was that message that you, you know, you
do this until this age, and then you retirement, then
hopefully you don't live too long and burden your families
too much us sticking around too long.
Speaker 4 (20:07):
I think that, you know, what, sixty is a new forty. Supposedly,
maybe I'm just saying that because I'm not sixty yet,
but so I think, you know, compared to my when
I think about my parents, there's like there's a completely
different attitude towards work, I think from their generation. And
you know, I come from Canada, so there were generally speaking,
good pensions associated with your job, so that helped too.
(20:31):
So people kind of work towards that. But now I
see that people are you know, recreating, they're going back
to school, they're you know, looking at life in it
with a different set of lenses. And I use this
example before with my own father's eighty three, who's still
working and loves work and will work to the dates.
He's a civil engineer and still very much in demand.
(20:53):
I've got a close friend who was thinking previously he
would retire at sixty and makes good income, and now
has you know, sort of shifted his thinking that actually,
I'm just going to make the most out of life
and accept that work will be more joyful kind of
challenging part of my life. So I'm just going to
re engineer my life or change my attitude to make
things more acceptable. And I think that's a very healthy attitude,
(21:15):
particularly for people who are maybe thinking, you know, how
am I going to get there? I need a million
dollars in the bank. Is never going to happen. There's again,
lots of different levers you can pull, and increasingly a
lever that people past sixty sixty five are pulling is
they're electing to work past sixty five. Another lever people
will pull inevitably will be to downsize their house and
(21:38):
extract some cash out of that reverse mortgages. I'm not
a fan, but there's that option for some people. But again,
the best thing you could possibly do is kind of
get the settings more or less right when you're young,
so you don't have to be panicking about these things
when you are fifty five and thinking, oh crap, you
know I should have done things differently.
Speaker 3 (21:55):
Well, it's Texable calls check. Hello.
Speaker 6 (21:58):
Hi, Yeah, so I'm going to ask you about your
idea of a three return you were talking about. I
do a lot better than that, and I'm invested in
the share market. And that's what people should do with
their Kiwi saver.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
Sorry, if your guest name Amanda, that's what they are
doing with, aren't they. I mean, if you're if you're
a Kiwi Savent, aren't you in the share market.
Speaker 6 (22:26):
You're in the shapt partly in the share market, but
you've you've got to specify what if a young person
in their early twenties, they should say put everything in shares,
not bonds and all that nonsense. Straight in shares because
you get dips in the shares. They talk about high
(22:47):
risk that's a nonsense. It's not a risk. If you're
looking thirty forty years ahead, the share market definitely will
be ahead.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
Are you thinking, Chuck, If you're advising someone, I mean
you're an experienced investor've we've been talking for years about
all sorts of issues your experience, but a lot.
Speaker 3 (23:06):
Of people aren't.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
And so are you talking about a consolidated fund or
like the S and P five hundred or whatever.
Speaker 6 (23:13):
Well, what I've invested, I do a lot of my
own live I've actually done very well off rocket Layer lately.
Speaker 4 (23:21):
Well so, just so, most keyvsaver funds are diversified funds,
and your correct some do return higher you know returns
over the long term. The growth aggressive funds, they are
doing more education around that. The calculators that they've got
with the key siver providers will give you a comparison
for here's what you could expect over the long term
(23:42):
to receive given a conservative, balanced and growth fund. The
only caution the younger people need to take is that
if they're saving for a first home and put all
the rigs in the aggressive fund and then you know,
as you've pointed out, they're overly exposed to equities in
the market pops and they were looking to extract their
house deposit and they're crying. So, you know, people just
(24:03):
need to understand the risk in return factor. And that's
a challenge here in New Zealand to get people to
wrap their heads around that.
Speaker 3 (24:10):
I think I do sort of feel chuck.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
I've got to mention that, you know, when you talk
about things and look good on you for doing well
on rocket Lab stock a stock, But.
Speaker 3 (24:18):
I do worry.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
I do worry that when people celebrate individual successes like this,
that there are people out there who listen and think
if I can just find that one magic stock, because
there are also those magic stocks where people lose their
shirts on it, And so I feel I need to
add a cautionary note.
Speaker 6 (24:36):
Oh yeah, look, it's a small amount of my shares
are died up in rocket Lab, that's for sure. It
would be very silly for somebody to take a punt
on tech stocks or something like that if they don't
have other investments you balance it out.
Speaker 3 (24:53):
I'm glad to know.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
I'm glad I mentioned that because as you you know,
you've mentioned, you know, the importance is having a diversified portfolio.
Speaker 3 (25:02):
Do you rely on.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
Your own advice just out of curiosity, or do you
also have a you know, I.
Speaker 6 (25:09):
Don't have a financial advisor as such. I've got a sharebroker,
and my latest sharebroker retired, so I've got a new one.
And he wanted to say, oh, just let me have
your money and I'll tell you what the best deals are.
I says not, doesn't work like that with me.
Speaker 3 (25:31):
Good idea, obviously. I mean you're have you retired, Chuck?
Would you call yourself retired?
Speaker 6 (25:37):
Well, I'm I'm quite lucky. I'm past eighty and I
played tennis twice a week.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
Well, you're not looking at eighty five, you're looking at
it and five you're like, I'm looking at that.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
You're looking at that's jelly and going he's my man.
Speaker 6 (25:51):
Yeah, tennis is a great sport. You play it.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
No, No, I've got a I've got a I've got
a naughty Jake.
Speaker 3 (25:59):
I would say, but we're on s I won't.
Speaker 4 (26:01):
But it sounds like you've played a good the game, Chech,
that you invested early, and I know you're enjoying the
fruits of your labor and staying healthy.
Speaker 6 (26:07):
So well, then where are you from? Amanda?
Speaker 4 (26:11):
I'm from a place called Calgary, Alberta.
Speaker 6 (26:15):
Oh yeah, well did you pick my accent?
Speaker 4 (26:18):
I did? There wasn't about there. I was going to
call you out.
Speaker 3 (26:20):
But are you from Vancouver?
Speaker 6 (26:22):
No? No, I worked before I came to New Zum.
I was working a peace river in that northern Alberta.
Speaker 4 (26:29):
Ah, there you go.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
Actually American, Chuck, I've got to have to refill your
ways and the Canadian.
Speaker 6 (26:41):
No, No, I am, but I still see some good
points in Donald Trump. I know you.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
Don't talk about it another time after midnight.
Speaker 3 (26:54):
Okay, thanks for your call. Actually, Chuck is one of
the callers. I met him years ago at I don't know.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
We must have arranged to catch up with some I
have a memory that I bumped into in some way.
Speaker 3 (27:07):
But actually I'm trying to remember that.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
But it's funny every now, ay, and you do me
to call us, So Chuck and I actually have met anyway,
Sorry you gain.
Speaker 4 (27:15):
You had asked earlier what the average kivsaver balance was
for a fifty year old. So got my numbers now.
So the average balance for fifty five they do it
in groups from fifty to fifty five is about fifty
eight thousand so that's, you know, sort of in line
with what we're saying very much. No, no, it's not.
It's very small. This is this is the issue. So
(27:36):
our relative wealth within the kiwisaver scheme is quite small.
That's why they're trying to ramp it up by increasing
those contribution rates over time. A lot of people and
Chuck would know this too if he's been living in
New Zealand for a long time. Have money tied up
in housing in New Zealand? And I think you know,
prior to kivsiver being introduced, that was sort of the
retirement saving strategy that you were going to, Yeah, if
(27:59):
you could afford to buy a house and then sell it,
you know, no capital gains back, you know.
Speaker 3 (28:04):
Until those days are well and truly those.
Speaker 4 (28:06):
Days are gone. But I think you know that was
the thinking. So I think we're playing catch up in
terms of like understanding investment vehicles.
Speaker 3 (28:15):
I think also actually realized.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
I mean the reason we talk about this more and more,
I think is because there was only just step until
a year or two ago. The received wisdom was if
you could do then at some stage you would look
for a retirement property, and that was what was going
to you know, an investment property which would fund you retirement.
But it feels that in the last year or two
(28:38):
or three that narrative has completely disappeared from the conventional wisdom.
Speaker 4 (28:44):
I would agree with you that that you don't hear
that enthusiasm you know, around investment markets housing markets quite
as much. The return rental yields are quite low. You've
got the hassle of dealing with tenants, so you've got
maintenance issues. So it was once a very tried and true, reliable,
ye wealth strategy in your zone. I think the table
(29:05):
have turned on that, and you know, we do have
a Kibi saver. It's very quickly gaining in value collectively
and more education and interest in it. But again that's
also just one part of the puzzle, right, So you've
got your earning income right, and you are your single
best investment. So if you look at yourself like that,
(29:28):
and we've had this discussion before, because you've got a
diversified portfolio in terms of your own offerings. So you know,
I think this is the kind of thinking that people
are going to have to do more of. You know,
the younger people think about in terms of side hustles,
you know, all those thres.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
I think that the conversation we're having on I know,
I've got to take a break, But I think the
problematic side of this conversation is for people who are
between the age of probably forty five to sixty five.
Speaker 3 (29:53):
I think the.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
Younger people like my I, of course, will worry about
my daughters, as anyone who's got kids will worry about
how their children are going to get into their first
time and get into retirement. But my kids, I believe,
just the conversations that they have around school and learning
about financial literacy. I think the generation that are coming
out now, the gen z Is, I think, are going
(30:14):
to be way better prepared for this com for what's
coming because it's been presented to them in a way
that never was when I was younger. I mean, God,
I don't think I have my first bit of advice
around retirement thinking until I was in the sort of
mid thirties, and that was just by accident.
Speaker 4 (30:30):
I'd say, there's still a lot of ignorance. So and
I mean, I've been preaching my kids who were not
kids anymore, and you know, I'm so shocked that they
don't understand some of the basics, they just don't listen,
And I think maybe that's typical. It's like, you know,
you could tell somebody about car insurance and how that
works and why it's important, but they're not going to
actually take that in until the day, you know that
they actually have to get car insurance and pay for
(30:52):
it themselves, or get into an accident and then pay
the access, you know. So it's sort of a life
stages kind of program. But I in general terms, I
think probably if you had a crystal ball, keep sever
will become compulsory, you know, and so that will take
away on an automated system for the younger generations, so
that they won't you know, their average balances, you know,
(31:14):
twenty years from now will be a heck a lot
higher than what we're seeing now.
Speaker 3 (31:17):
Right, We're going to take it. Yes, it will.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
Yeah, We're going to take a moment and come back
and just to take gosh, time is flying. It is
eighteen minutes to six news Talks've got a bunch of
correspondents which we will get to. In fact, I'm going
to make a point of dealing with some of these
texts straight after this, unless somebody jumps the queue with
a call, because that's generally my default rule.
Speaker 3 (31:36):
It is eighteen to six.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
News talks. There be My guest is Amanda Morale. We're
talking about the retirement, the retirement age. It is a
perpetuating conversation because it's not like we're going to wrap
a bow round it and that'll be the last time
we talk about it.
Speaker 7 (31:52):
But Richard, Hello, Hello, I could be Amanda's brother's sorry,
father's younger brother. Oh from Civil Engineers seventy eight years old.
I am planning to retire soon. But what I wanted
to talk about, and I nearly rang last week when
the subject was about Kiwisaver is I invested KIV saver
(32:15):
right from the get go, and I took the maximum
deduction right from the get go. And I've learned a
lot by being in kV Saber, But I still wouldn't
dream of being somebody who thought they could be smarter
than the fund managers. That I have managed to increase
(32:36):
my balance to nearly half familion over there, and I
think that it's wonderful that the government or somebody in
the government or in the political system is talking about
putting a deposit into every young person's child life. And
(32:58):
I think that we've got to do even more in
that the parents should be encouraged to pay into it
that they're whatever they put in would be matched by
the government, because we have got an aging population and
we're not going to deal with that by tinkering with
what's happening now, because you know, like.
Speaker 3 (33:23):
By tinkering, what do you mean, oh.
Speaker 7 (33:25):
By by trying to make things better for people who
are at or near or who are retired. I think
most people who have retired of my age have been
reasonably proven and if they haven't, then you know, I
(33:45):
just don't. I think that the solution that our aging
population is to get the young not in the situation
that they will be in.
Speaker 4 (33:56):
Richard, I can't agree more with you. And overseas again,
at least I can speak for Canada. That's what they
do do. They offer tax incentives to and matching contributions
quite generously. New Zealand you've probably remembered Ksaver's first rolled
out did offer everybody opened an account one thousand dollars
to get a kickstart, and then the matching contributions were
(34:18):
one thousand and forty three every you know, election year, well,
every second one it's been chipped away at. But you
raised a good point about getting started earlier and actually
getting more family members on board with that. I think
a lot of people still don't understand that you can
contribute into your kids kbsaver account or an investment kind
(34:38):
if they set that up, including grandparents. By the way,
it's just managed by ird so that you'll be rewarded
with like you were with your half million dollar balance.
If the earlier you get started as a compound interest, great,
I do that.
Speaker 7 (34:52):
If they do that, they and all this argument about
you know, when people should retire and start connecting the
pension will not be so relevant because you know, people
sometimes do need to retire young. And so my view
is they should just leave the retiring age at around
sixty five. Four people that are, well, you leave it
(35:15):
at sixty five and then then say, well, you know
from this date on maybe five years you'll pension or
will put the pension rate you know, six months out
every two years or whatever. But you can retire whenever
you like, and that will encourage people to be independent
(35:36):
and be independently wealthy. I think he we save it
is the most underrated and fantastic methodology or strategy for
ensuring wealth security throughout future.
Speaker 2 (35:52):
I think as it builds up ahead of steam over
the years and the generations, it will become one of
those things where eventually we will feel a bit more
like we've caught up with Australia a bit, but just
not now.
Speaker 4 (36:00):
But he again, Richard raises a really good point. Get
them started early. You know, it's I don't agree with
Whins and Peter's on too much, but you know, get
them started from birth and really heavily encourage parents to keep,
you know, chipping money into that fund and then you
won't have a problem later on in life.
Speaker 5 (36:18):
I agree.
Speaker 2 (36:19):
Right, we've got the callers rolling in, but it's almost
been a feature of the hours. It even calls sort
of towards the end. So we'll try and see if
we can squeeze a caller or two, or at least
another caller will be back in just a moment. It's
ten to six News Talks EDB, News Talk z B.
Somebody has mentioned hospital cures thousands a week as well,
says char and of course the retirement villages can easily
add a million, eat up a million dollars there's all
(36:41):
sorts of ways that you can blow your money once
you do retire or when you need it. But anyway,
let's continue. We've got time to squeze in. One more caller, Stephen, Hello.
Speaker 8 (36:49):
Yeah, Okay, I just want a little bit of clarification.
I was with a large New Zealand company for about
twenty years and I got made redundant when I was
sixty four or something like that, and so I've been
in there superannuation scheme. So I took a. I took
a you know, I got paid out, which was a
(37:11):
nicer amount of money. And I think because I was
in the super scheme, I wasn't allowed to join Kiwi Saber,
but that's not my question.
Speaker 7 (37:19):
Anyway.
Speaker 8 (37:20):
After that, I joined mine at ten and I stayed
there until I got to sixty five, and then I
got made redundant from there. It was COVID that happened there,
but I joined I joined Kiwisaber while I was at
Might Attend and so I got a and I took
(37:40):
the I took out a small amount of money. Now
I'm sixty eight and I've been working for a government department.
So I'm quite fortunate to have a job. But anyway,
I keep getting these emails saying your super scheme, I
don't know want of FEZ, but I want to.
Speaker 3 (37:59):
Oh no.
Speaker 8 (38:05):
For that.
Speaker 2 (38:06):
Sorry, sorry, Stephen, we won't be able to get you on.
That's just one of the things that happens when people
are driving hanger.
Speaker 4 (38:13):
But it sounds like if we fill in the blanks,
he's wanting to know what's left in there. So I
if I'm reading that right, please get in touch with
your former employer, do some digging with HR, and then
sort of backtrack until you can get some answers there.
Speaker 2 (38:26):
Yes, and look, we've suddenly had a flood of a
lot of people with their stories and unfortunately it's all
happened a bit late in the day, so we're not
going to be able to share those.
Speaker 3 (38:33):
But it's obviously means that these are.
Speaker 2 (38:35):
Conversations that people want to have during a smart money hour,
So it will you put this on ice in away.
But before we go, Amanda, you did have some resources I.
Speaker 7 (38:44):
Did to check out.
Speaker 4 (38:45):
It's because you were. Please next time I see you,
can you please use this calculator sorta. Dot org dot NZ,
which is run by the government, has some brilliant free
tools to use. They have a retirement calculator, so hop
online to sorta dot org, plug in your numbers. It
will tell you there's several inputs that you need to
put in included in quis ever balance any other savings,
(39:05):
and I'll give you an idea whether you're on track
to have the desired income that you would like in retirement.
Check your KEYPI siver balance as well. Every the annual
member statement shows you your projector balance. And there are
other tools out there, including chat. If you've got the
basic data, just fired in there or cloud whatever.
Speaker 3 (39:22):
Air tool use, get sorted, dot org, dot NZ.
Speaker 4 (39:26):
Yeah, and so please the last thing you should be
doing is head and this sound on this just find
out what the numbers are. It'll give you greater.
Speaker 2 (39:32):
Are you sure what I put in my expectations and
what I need? There won't be a sound effect that
goes wow.
Speaker 4 (39:37):
I think there's a different role leader here on the wall, Tin,
So we'll get that hurt started, I promise.
Speaker 3 (39:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:44):
Hey, great to chat, Amanda, Thank you so much for
coming in. And look, I've got to remind myself that
these are conversations people really do want to have, because
judging by the correspondence that's coming, even if it took
a while to build up ahead of steam. I think
we'll need to pick up this conversation in another time.
Speaker 3 (39:58):
Anyway, Hey, thanks for look.
Speaker 2 (40:00):
I hope you found it interesting listening as well, even
if it's just been a salutary reminder of you to
check out some resources.
Speaker 3 (40:06):
Thanks my producer Olivia Reed. Thank you, Olivia.
Speaker 2 (40:09):
Really appreciate your up today, and we'll be back next weekend.
Sunday at six is next. Have a wonderful evening. We'll
catch you soon
Speaker 1 (40:17):
To For more from the Weekend Collective, listen live to
News Talk SEDB weekends from three pm, or follow the
podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks,
I'd be with money.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
There are certain things that recur but actually might have
you might have heard, and if you didn't, at the
end of this hour, I'd encourage you goun check out
the interview I had in the chat I had with
Cameron Baggray because as far as just talking about what
the budget's about and what we can anticipate in the
challenges in New Zealand's has got, I think that I
couldn't imagine anyone enunciating it in a clear, understandable way
(00:33):
for the average should have I was going to say
the average plunker, and I mean that jokingly in terms
of reference to myself, but the average person just to
understand what the budget's all about and what we can
look forward to and the challenges we've got. But one
of the issues that Cameron Baggory did touch on when
we were chatting about it was, you know, on the
retirement age and look, we're not going to get into
it from the angle that he talked about.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
That was because I asked him a question and said, look.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
If Nichola Willis didn't care about getting re elected, what
should you do and he said, well, you know, he
needs to address the age of retirement. So we're not
going to talk about the policies of government should enact,
but we want to have your cause. I know one
hundred and eighteen eighty and text nine two nine two
on retirement and in fact, when you're going to retire,
(01:19):
because retirement's the time most people Well, actually, it's interesting
do people most people dream of retirement or do they
dream of thinking when I do eventually retire, it's going
to be a time when I no longer need to
work or study and I can enjoy a slow and simple.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
Life, is it.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
That's an interesting take on it actually, But what does
it actually take to retire? How much money do we
realistically need to survive retirement, let alone thrive in it?
And I could account for half your pension simply if
you're continuing to pay for health insurance. So the simple
question is, you know, because there's a question about super
(01:55):
maybe being under threat one day, when are you retiring?
What are your plans? And is it because of the
money or is it because you know what, I like
doing what I do and I'm just going to keep
active until I can't be active any longer, and will
your key we save it, will your pension, your savings,
whatever scheme you've got, will it be enough? And would
(02:18):
it be enough if the pension went away? We want
to know your thoughts on eight hundred ten eighty text
nine nine two and joining us to discuss this. Well,
it's probably one of the bigger issues regarding money that
every New Zealand is going to face eventually, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (02:33):
Anyway?
Speaker 2 (02:34):
It is Amanda Morale, How are you, Amanda? Nice to
see you.
Speaker 4 (02:39):
Good to see you retiring the time that you were
going to introduce me there it is so I know.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
Sorry, I thought we'd God flying me.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
We have talked about We have talked about retirement a bit,
and look, I've said I'm not going to be retiring
when I'm sixty five because I won't be able to
afford to.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
But I'll be honest, if I.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Had all the money in the world, I still don't
think I would retire. I would want to keep doing
something that I really enjoyed and something that was lack
on occupation.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
What are your thoughts on it?
Speaker 4 (03:10):
I think people idealize retirement and particularly if they despise
their job or find their you know, their job difficult
in some capacity. But it's funny. Earlier this week chatting
with a group of ladies, one of whom was a
very successful entrepreneur who sold their business. Could have retired,
but this happens time and time of game, particularly the
(03:31):
ambitious people who like to keep their you know, their
brain engaged, et cetera. You know, she was retired less
than six months but bored and you know, got back
in the game.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
Was she sixty five or was she one of those.
Speaker 4 (03:42):
And yeah, she's she's over sixty five and just has
the energy, the desire and interest in you know, staying active.
So I guess again it comes down to a do
you have to I mean, ideally, when it comes to retirement,
it should be your choice, right, so, to the best
of your ability, you want to be prepared for that.
(04:03):
But these days, and it's an recently common scenario that
you're seeing for the reason I've just outlined that people
want to keep working. But also there's going to be
a good chunk of the population. We know that from
all the research and data in New Zone that they
just won't be ready to retire. So there's going to
be basically a two stream, I think situation in New
Zealand over the next ten to twenty years.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
What are your thoughts on retirement yourself. I mean, you're
still quite away from it, a way away from it.
But is it sixty five something that you would I mean,
do you think I'm not that you think about it,
because unless you're really getting close to retirement, maybe you
don't think about it. But do you think about sixty
five as being the age at which you would retire?
Speaker 4 (04:43):
I think when you know you're young, like say, twenty
sixty five feels ancient and seems like a very long
way away. And so when you get to our age
and the closer you get to that horizon, all of
a sudden, you're reevaluating what that number actually means to you.
But as apart from the biological number in the aging process,
(05:03):
it really comes down to your own personal inclinations. And
I think in this general topic of retirement, one size
does not so in terms of you know, your your propensity,
your capacity, your interest, your preparedness, all that. So we've
got some good numbers that we can kind of, you know,
discuss tonight in terms of what it would take to
(05:25):
retire and when and what the shortfalls have been identified
between New Zealand super and Savings private savings. Are you key?
We server? So there's a lot to work with. So
I'm excited to get into this.
Speaker 3 (05:36):
Are you.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
Oh yeah, so look every here's here's the first thing
for listeners as well that it's been one of those
I wouldn't say it's a throwaway line, but the sort
of stated amount of like, you know, you should really
be retiring with a million dollars in the bank, and
(05:57):
actually I don't know if I don't know how how
much a million dollars is when it comes to depending
on what sort of retirement you have, because how far
does a million dollars go if you sort of let's
say you're going to live to eighty five, so you
know you've got twenty years of life before you know,
(06:19):
things get into that stage where you're winding down. Of course,
you know there are people living to one hundred and
five these days, so who knows what happened that.
Speaker 4 (06:26):
There was a time, probably you know, in your twenties
or your thirties, where you thought a million dollars sounded
like a huge number and you could ease a tire onund.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
One hundred thousand dollars was a huge amount of money
I remember when I was a teenager.
Speaker 4 (06:37):
Yeah, But sadly these days, I'm not trying to minimize
the value of a million dollars, but with tax inflation
and what you've just pointed out longevity, that is sort
of the clincher there in terms of how much that
money will last. And in addition to that, it's how
well you've prepared, how well you've played the game prior
to that. So Massive University has done a lot of
(07:00):
work in the space and looked at current the current
cohort of New Zealand Super new in its to identify
what their actual expenses are and that and they do
it by looking at people living in the city versus
the provinces and those who've got, you know, just biggerly
scraping by and those who have a little bit of luxury.
They call it a choice, and there's some interesting there's
(07:23):
a gap in both those areas, whether you're living in
the province or or the city, and how much the
New Zealand super will afford for you and how much
extra you're going to have depending on how much you've saved.
And a million bucks is basically the difference between what
the current cohort will need if they're living and that's
(07:44):
a single person by the way, a two person household
rather in like Auckland or you know, Wellington would need
between to bridge the differences do and what they get
from the New Zealand super and what they're going to
need to grow old together and afford a few perks.
And the scary thing about this, all this research is
(08:06):
based on the assumption that you are rent and or
a mortgage free. So this is what I'm saying, like,
how much will a million how far were a million
dollars go? It really depends on whether your mortgage in
or rent free and how much and your lifestyle right, Yeah,
you know, there's a huge range between how some people live.
Some people like to go be going overseas twice a year.
(08:26):
Some people are very happy to eat vegetables out of
their garden and go for local walks. So horses for
courses about how much.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
May actually what are the basic expenses that people wouldn't
think about because it's easy just to go talking in
lump sums, it doesn't really tell us much. You go
a million bucks and then you sort of think, well,
hopefully that'll work. I wonder how many people have actually
broken it down into with regard to whether you try
(08:55):
and you know, how much you bite into the principle
versus the interest you earn on that principle as well,
because I would imagine that if interest rates are kept low,
then million bucks, okay, you might be making. You could
make maybe thirty thousand dollars after text, possibly in a
good center, in a good situation. But then you might decide, well,
(09:15):
actually that's not going to be enough, so I'll have
to pull out another thirty grand of principle or something
just to get by plus my super got it?
Speaker 3 (09:22):
What's the equations? Well, on the basis.
Speaker 4 (09:24):
Okay, So here here's a little reality about the current
average kiwis ofver balance in New Zealand. And average is
not mean. But is it worth thirty three thousand dollars?
So that's not a lot, okay, But that again, that's
an average. So some people have more than that, some
people have less, But it's nowhere close to what the
research has I done. It is what you will require
(09:46):
between bridging the difference between your super payments and what
it is going to take to live and the killers,
as we all know, recently have been you know, inflation
on food, petrols another big one. Pretty much everything has
gone up. Your utility bill, insurances, you name it, and
take well if you want to go anywhere.
Speaker 3 (10:07):
I'll be honest.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
That's the thing that frightens me is I know what
we pay for health insurance, and it feels like that's
a luxury now because it is so expensive. But it's
one of those things you know, you can you bear
to ever let it go because the day you cancel it,
it's like, oh, bad luck to them. If you had
your health insurance, we could have done these, you know,
could have replaced your hip for your knee or whatever.
Speaker 4 (10:31):
Well, I think it'll get done. It just may be
you're waiting two or three years. Well, if you don't
have insurance.
Speaker 3 (10:35):
Well that's that is.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
That's one of the terrible dilemmas people have because if
you're retired and if you do need something that assists
with your mobility, I would imagine one way to end
up not being particularly healthy as an older person is
restricting your movement.
Speaker 4 (10:50):
So the again, you want to stay healthy because again
another again consideration for how much money do you need
is okay, are you going to stay healthy? Right? And
a lot of people it's well known or under insurance
in this country too, so you may not of that
health insurance. So a you want to the best of
your meiality, you want to save well, you want to
keep yourself in good working order, you know, so you're
(11:13):
not just burning out and burning bright presumably if you
enjoy life and you want to enjoy long life. So
there's lots of little factors and variables feeding into the
whole situation. It's not quite as straightforward, but I think
big picture is it's it's been well flagged that New
Zealanders need to save more, and save earlier and save often,
(11:35):
which is why the government has raised the kiwisaver contribution
rates up to three and a half and then they're
going up because they're trying to push more New Zealanders
to save.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
I wonder what the average key we save a balance
would be for people over the age of fifty.
Speaker 4 (11:50):
They've got that data. I don't have it at my
fingertips on a break. I'll dig it up for you.
It maybe a little bit higher, but you'd be surprised
how low it is overall, and it's low compared to
what our peers are doing in our Australia, Canada, the UK,
the US because they've been out this invested savings game
(12:11):
a lot longer than we have. And so remember, while
kV SEVER is seventeen years old now, I think it's
in relative terms of very young investment product. And you
still see a lot of people trying to understand the
basics of kiv SEVER whilst overseas they've been you know,
it's been well taught in schools and well educated at
the dinner table about the need for saving into your
(12:33):
retirement fund. Plus they do have pensions outside of it.
Speaker 3 (12:35):
It's amazing.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
I've got an old a colleague haven't spoken to for years.
He's a little chunk older than me, but he's hit
retirement and I saw a post that he was. Exchanged
a few messages with him just to say hi, and
he was like, I'm loving retirement. I'm just loving it
because he's been in Australia. Oh sorry, I should have mentioned.
(12:57):
He's been in Australia most of his life, working in
either theater or teaching, and he just seem to me
to be totally stress free. It's like because of the
scheme that they have and I think, gosh, we are
so far behind.
Speaker 4 (13:11):
That we are behind, and you know, this is where
we're trying to catch up. There's a lot of education
around the necessity to save more and also choosing the
right type of fund. So people are panicking and by
the way, you don't need to panic right away. Should
just like you know, get your head wrapped around your
actual numbers, and so you can go into your for
if you might have savings outside a kV saver, of course,
(13:33):
but keV saver, if that's all you've got, find out
what your balance is. They do a projection these days
based on you know, what your current contribution rates, what
you're going to have at sixty five, and in addition
to that, they'll show you what you can expect to
get from that on a weekly basis, with or without
the New Zealand super So it gives you a good
idea of what you're going to have. The thing is
(13:53):
that you know you talked about what are you going
to do at sixty five? Most people don't want to
think about getting old. They don't want to know about it.
They put their cord in thiss had and it's just
that's their strategy is I'm just going to prote.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
That's actually one of the questions I just want to
throw out there, hands up and look, I don't think
there's any shame at admitting this, because I don't think
you'll be alone. How many people out there look at
the retirement age and you and what a man is
talking about? You know, do those calculations? Could you even
bear to because I'll be honest, I don't think I
could bear to do the calculations on what I have
(14:27):
and what I need to do. And I don't think
it's even ahead in the sand thing. It's just I
don't think it's great, and I don't really need to
know how tragic it is. I'm being honest with you.
Speaker 4 (14:37):
Okay, Tim, we're going to get you under the retirement
sort of retirement calculator doing the break and bingo bango.
You're going to get those numbers right away.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
How how much of an effort are you taking out
there to actually get the facts or you're just thinking,
you know what, I'll stick my three percent and or
my four percent of the KEII saver and fingers crossed.
I mean, how many times do I say fingers crossed
on the show. Oh, eight hundred and eighty ten eighty,
we're talking about retirement and the retirement age.
Speaker 3 (15:05):
Give us a call. We'd love to hear from you.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
I'm with a Randa Morale. It's twenty two and a
half past five. News Talk said B. News Talk said, B,
when are you going to retire?
Speaker 3 (15:13):
How much do you actually need?
Speaker 2 (15:15):
We're going to dig into some facts with I'm not sure.
In fact, I gave Amanda time to check onto some
of those things. He was going to look it in
the break so where I was busy just chatting about stuff.
So we'll take your course first. Eight hundred and eighty
ten eighty Colin, Hello.
Speaker 5 (15:30):
Hello, how are you?
Speaker 6 (15:31):
I was just wondering.
Speaker 5 (15:34):
These things over the internet and things saying that you
need a million dollars to retire, And when I sit
down and work agad, I'm just thinking that is it lunacy?
I mean, as long as it doesn't include your family home.
I just can't work out how much you would why
you would need so much, And to put that figger
(15:55):
in front of people just seems so unfair.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
Uh oh, because well I don't know how far where
you are in return in terms of half.
Speaker 5 (16:06):
Hours away or two years ago and somewhere between. I mean,
I'll be south of a million and north of five hundred,
but that won't include the family home.
Speaker 3 (16:16):
But oh, okay, well that sounds like.
Speaker 5 (16:20):
But I say, you need a million to survive anything
anytime I sort of try, won't even get close to that.
Speaker 4 (16:30):
Okay, Yeah, I think that number does get banded out.
But it's not a golden rule by any means. It
really is dependent on your own personal circumstances. And you know,
some people, I'm sure you know, spend a heck of
a lot of money. Others are very frugal and can
get by and you know they don't go out seven
dollars coffees all that stuff. And also there's a health
(16:51):
considerations that we were discussing previously. You know, if your
grandkids are overseas, all those things. So I mean, I
can get that you that may irk you, And I
get how the house, and that's a very good point,
is an asset that could be sold and downsized to
free up some cash. So you know, there's there's different
(17:11):
ways to skin a cat, so to speak, when it
comes to retirement. I know it's a terrible expression but
I think if you're a younger person listening, it's the
time to think, oh, I should take this stuff seriously,
even though I never think I'm going to get old,
and you know, start saving now, because if they take
action when they're twenty and make those, you know, higher contributions,
(17:32):
they're going to be laughing by the time of fifty five.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
Colin, are you are you worried or irritated at the
million dollars?
Speaker 5 (17:39):
Irritated? I suppose to be honest, because I just yeah,
I mean, if you divide, even if you worked the
principal out over twenty years and made a weey bit
of interest, it's an insane amount of money each week.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
Well, what's an insane amount of money for you?
Speaker 5 (17:58):
Well, I would get out it would be about seventeen
or eighteen hundred dollars a week in the hand I'd
have to take out of that million dollars to get
it back to zero by the time I was eighty five,
And that doesn't include the super.
Speaker 3 (18:11):
How long do you think?
Speaker 2 (18:12):
Actually, it's interesting you say eighty five because I threw
eighty five out there. Maybe I don't know what the
stats are on average life expectancy, but of course, as
you get closer to, you know, the final years of
your life, you'd probably do less anyway, you probably have
a cheaper lifestyle. But are you planning to retire at
sixty five? And are you banking eighty five?
Speaker 3 (18:34):
Is it for you?
Speaker 5 (18:36):
No? No, I'm not thinking of retiring at sixty five.
And no, I'm probably thinking eighty five will be my cutoff.
I would have thought, yeah.
Speaker 3 (18:43):
My cutoff. I love a good euphemism. What's your cutoff
about eighty five?
Speaker 2 (18:51):
So what are you What are you going to do
with work? Are you going to work just because you
enjoy working? Or are you doing it for the money
or what will push you past six?
Speaker 5 (18:59):
It's just it's hard to stop and do nothing. I feel,
I don't know what you do. If you actually stop
at sixty You've got to have something, don't you just stop?
Speaker 3 (19:08):
I one hundred percent agree with you.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
I almost wonder, Colin, if the concept of retirement as
was presented to us twenty thirty forty years ago, there's bollocks.
Speaker 4 (19:18):
I think it is a model.
Speaker 6 (19:21):
Yeah, it's gone.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
It's gone, thanks Colin, Yeah, good on it. By the way,
I know, with these conversations, and I mean this sincerely
that if you are working on your hands and knees
or in a really tough manual job, look, ideally you
managed to move on from those sorts of roles. If
you're in a construction role or plumber, or we can
think of a myriad of jobs which are physically demanding.
(19:45):
So we know that that's sixty five from some people
as like God, I just can't wait to reach there.
But ideally, I mean, outside of that, I do think
that retirement's sort of It's a funny thing, isn't it
that there was that message that you, you know, you
do this until this age, and then you retirement, then
hopefully you don't live too long and burden your families
too much us sticking around too long.
Speaker 4 (20:07):
I think that, you know, what, sixty is a new forty. Supposedly,
maybe I'm just saying that because I'm not sixty yet,
but so I think, you know, compared to my when
I think about my parents, there's like there's a completely
different attitude towards work, I think from their generation. And
you know, I come from Canada, so there were generally speaking,
good pensions associated with your job, so that helped too.
(20:31):
So people kind of work towards that. But now I
see that people are you know, recreating, they're going back
to school, they're you know, looking at life in it
with a different set of lenses. And I use this
example before with my own father's eighty three, who's still
working and loves work and will work to the dates.
He's a civil engineer and still very much in demand.
(20:53):
I've got a close friend who was thinking previously he
would retire at sixty and makes good income, and now
has you know, sort of shifted his thinking that actually,
I'm just going to make the most out of life
and accept that work will be more joyful kind of
challenging part of my life. So I'm just going to
re engineer my life or change my attitude to make
things more acceptable. And I think that's a very healthy attitude,
(21:15):
particularly for people who are maybe thinking, you know, how
am I going to get there? I need a million
dollars in the bank. Is never going to happen. There's again,
lots of different levers you can pull, and increasingly a
lever that people past sixty sixty five are pulling is
they're electing to work past sixty five. Another lever people
will pull inevitably will be to downsize their house and
(21:38):
extract some cash out of that reverse mortgages. I'm not
a fan, but there's that option for some people. But again,
the best thing you could possibly do is kind of
get the settings more or less right when you're young,
so you don't have to be panicking about these things
when you are fifty five and thinking, oh crap, you
know I should have done things differently.
Speaker 3 (21:55):
Well, it's Texable calls check. Hello.
Speaker 6 (21:58):
Hi, Yeah, so I'm going to ask you about your
idea of a three return you were talking about. I
do a lot better than that, and I'm invested in
the share market. And that's what people should do with
their Kiwi saver.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
Sorry, if your guest name Amanda, that's what they are
doing with, aren't they. I mean, if you're if you're
a Kiwi Savent, aren't you in the share market.
Speaker 6 (22:26):
You're in the shapt partly in the share market, but
you've you've got to specify what if a young person
in their early twenties, they should say put everything in shares,
not bonds and all that nonsense. Straight in shares because
you get dips in the shares. They talk about high
(22:47):
risk that's a nonsense. It's not a risk. If you're
looking thirty forty years ahead, the share market definitely will
be ahead.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
Are you thinking, Chuck, If you're advising someone, I mean
you're an experienced investor've we've been talking for years about
all sorts of issues your experience, but a lot.
Speaker 3 (23:06):
Of people aren't.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
And so are you talking about a consolidated fund or
like the S and P five hundred or whatever.
Speaker 6 (23:13):
Well, what I've invested, I do a lot of my
own live I've actually done very well off rocket Layer lately.
Speaker 4 (23:21):
Well so, just so, most keyvsaver funds are diversified funds,
and your correct some do return higher you know returns
over the long term. The growth aggressive funds, they are
doing more education around that. The calculators that they've got
with the key siver providers will give you a comparison
for here's what you could expect over the long term
(23:42):
to receive given a conservative, balanced and growth fund. The
only caution the younger people need to take is that
if they're saving for a first home and put all
the rigs in the aggressive fund and then you know,
as you've pointed out, they're overly exposed to equities in
the market pops and they were looking to extract their
house deposit and they're crying. So, you know, people just
(24:03):
need to understand the risk in return factor. And that's
a challenge here in New Zealand to get people to
wrap their heads around that.
Speaker 3 (24:10):
I think I do sort of feel chuck.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
I've got to mention that, you know, when you talk
about things and look good on you for doing well
on rocket Lab stock a stock, But.
Speaker 3 (24:18):
I do worry.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
I do worry that when people celebrate individual successes like this,
that there are people out there who listen and think
if I can just find that one magic stock, because
there are also those magic stocks where people lose their
shirts on it, And so I feel I need to
add a cautionary note.
Speaker 6 (24:36):
Oh yeah, look, it's a small amount of my shares
are died up in rocket Lab, that's for sure. It
would be very silly for somebody to take a punt
on tech stocks or something like that if they don't
have other investments you balance it out.
Speaker 3 (24:53):
I'm glad to know.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
I'm glad I mentioned that because as you you know,
you've mentioned, you know, the importance is having a diversified portfolio.
Speaker 3 (25:02):
Do you rely on.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
Your own advice just out of curiosity, or do you
also have a you know, I.
Speaker 6 (25:09):
Don't have a financial advisor as such. I've got a sharebroker,
and my latest sharebroker retired, so I've got a new one.
And he wanted to say, oh, just let me have
your money and I'll tell you what the best deals are.
I says not, doesn't work like that with me.
Speaker 3 (25:31):
Good idea, obviously. I mean you're have you retired, Chuck?
Would you call yourself retired?
Speaker 6 (25:37):
Well, I'm I'm quite lucky. I'm past eighty and I
played tennis twice a week.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
Well, you're not looking at eighty five, you're looking at
it and five you're like, I'm looking at that.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
You're looking at that's jelly and going he's my man.
Speaker 6 (25:51):
Yeah, tennis is a great sport. You play it.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
No, No, I've got a I've got a I've got
a naughty Jake.
Speaker 3 (25:59):
I would say, but we're on s I won't.
Speaker 4 (26:01):
But it sounds like you've played a good the game, Chech,
that you invested early, and I know you're enjoying the
fruits of your labor and staying healthy.
Speaker 6 (26:07):
So well, then where are you from? Amanda?
Speaker 4 (26:11):
I'm from a place called Calgary, Alberta.
Speaker 6 (26:15):
Oh yeah, well did you pick my accent?
Speaker 4 (26:18):
I did? There wasn't about there. I was going to
call you out.
Speaker 3 (26:20):
But are you from Vancouver?
Speaker 6 (26:22):
No? No, I worked before I came to New Zum.
I was working a peace river in that northern Alberta.
Speaker 4 (26:29):
Ah, there you go.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
Actually American, Chuck, I've got to have to refill your
ways and the Canadian.
Speaker 6 (26:41):
No, No, I am, but I still see some good
points in Donald Trump. I know you.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
Don't talk about it another time after midnight.
Speaker 3 (26:54):
Okay, thanks for your call. Actually, Chuck is one of
the callers. I met him years ago at I don't know.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
We must have arranged to catch up with some I
have a memory that I bumped into in some way.
Speaker 3 (27:07):
But actually I'm trying to remember that.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
But it's funny every now, ay, and you do me
to call us, So Chuck and I actually have met anyway,
Sorry you gain.
Speaker 4 (27:15):
You had asked earlier what the average kivsaver balance was
for a fifty year old. So got my numbers now.
So the average balance for fifty five they do it
in groups from fifty to fifty five is about fifty
eight thousand so that's, you know, sort of in line
with what we're saying very much. No, no, it's not.
It's very small. This is this is the issue. So
(27:36):
our relative wealth within the kiwisaver scheme is quite small.
That's why they're trying to ramp it up by increasing
those contribution rates over time. A lot of people and
Chuck would know this too if he's been living in
New Zealand for a long time. Have money tied up
in housing in New Zealand? And I think you know,
prior to kivsiver being introduced, that was sort of the
retirement saving strategy that you were going to, Yeah, if
(27:59):
you could afford to buy a house and then sell it,
you know, no capital gains back, you know.
Speaker 3 (28:04):
Until those days are well and truly those.
Speaker 4 (28:06):
Days are gone. But I think you know that was
the thinking. So I think we're playing catch up in
terms of like understanding investment vehicles.
Speaker 3 (28:15):
I think also actually realized.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
I mean the reason we talk about this more and more,
I think is because there was only just step until
a year or two ago. The received wisdom was if
you could do then at some stage you would look
for a retirement property, and that was what was going
to you know, an investment property which would fund you retirement.
But it feels that in the last year or two
(28:38):
or three that narrative has completely disappeared from the conventional wisdom.
Speaker 4 (28:44):
I would agree with you that that you don't hear
that enthusiasm you know, around investment markets housing markets quite
as much. The return rental yields are quite low. You've
got the hassle of dealing with tenants, so you've got
maintenance issues. So it was once a very tried and true, reliable,
ye wealth strategy in your zone. I think the table
(29:05):
have turned on that, and you know, we do have
a Kibi saver. It's very quickly gaining in value collectively
and more education and interest in it. But again that's
also just one part of the puzzle, right, So you've
got your earning income right, and you are your single
best investment. So if you look at yourself like that,
(29:28):
and we've had this discussion before, because you've got a
diversified portfolio in terms of your own offerings. So you know,
I think this is the kind of thinking that people
are going to have to do more of. You know,
the younger people think about in terms of side hustles,
you know, all those thres.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
I think that the conversation we're having on I know,
I've got to take a break, But I think the
problematic side of this conversation is for people who are
between the age of probably forty five to sixty five.
Speaker 3 (29:53):
I think the.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
Younger people like my I, of course, will worry about
my daughters, as anyone who's got kids will worry about
how their children are going to get into their first
time and get into retirement. But my kids, I believe,
just the conversations that they have around school and learning
about financial literacy. I think the generation that are coming
out now, the gen z Is, I think, are going
(30:14):
to be way better prepared for this com for what's
coming because it's been presented to them in a way
that never was when I was younger. I mean, God,
I don't think I have my first bit of advice
around retirement thinking until I was in the sort of
mid thirties, and that was just by accident.
Speaker 4 (30:30):
I'd say, there's still a lot of ignorance. So and
I mean, I've been preaching my kids who were not
kids anymore, and you know, I'm so shocked that they
don't understand some of the basics, they just don't listen,
And I think maybe that's typical. It's like, you know,
you could tell somebody about car insurance and how that
works and why it's important, but they're not going to
actually take that in until the day, you know that
they actually have to get car insurance and pay for
(30:52):
it themselves, or get into an accident and then pay
the access, you know. So it's sort of a life
stages kind of program. But I in general terms, I
think probably if you had a crystal ball, keep sever
will become compulsory, you know, and so that will take
away on an automated system for the younger generations, so
that they won't you know, their average balances, you know,
(31:14):
twenty years from now will be a heck a lot
higher than what we're seeing now.
Speaker 3 (31:17):
Right, We're going to take it. Yes, it will.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
Yeah, We're going to take a moment and come back
and just to take gosh, time is flying. It is
eighteen minutes to six news Talks've got a bunch of
correspondents which we will get to. In fact, I'm going
to make a point of dealing with some of these
texts straight after this, unless somebody jumps the queue with
a call, because that's generally my default rule.
Speaker 3 (31:36):
It is eighteen to six.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
News talks. There be My guest is Amanda Morale. We're
talking about the retirement, the retirement age. It is a
perpetuating conversation because it's not like we're going to wrap
a bow round it and that'll be the last time
we talk about it.
Speaker 7 (31:52):
But Richard, Hello, Hello, I could be Amanda's brother's sorry,
father's younger brother. Oh from Civil Engineers seventy eight years old.
I am planning to retire soon. But what I wanted
to talk about, and I nearly rang last week when
the subject was about Kiwisaver is I invested KIV saver
(32:15):
right from the get go, and I took the maximum
deduction right from the get go. And I've learned a
lot by being in kV Saber, But I still wouldn't
dream of being somebody who thought they could be smarter
than the fund managers. That I have managed to increase
(32:36):
my balance to nearly half familion over there, and I
think that it's wonderful that the government or somebody in
the government or in the political system is talking about
putting a deposit into every young person's child life. And
(32:58):
I think that we've got to do even more in
that the parents should be encouraged to pay into it
that they're whatever they put in would be matched by
the government, because we have got an aging population and
we're not going to deal with that by tinkering with
what's happening now, because you know, like.
Speaker 3 (33:23):
By tinkering, what do you mean, oh.
Speaker 7 (33:25):
By by trying to make things better for people who
are at or near or who are retired. I think
most people who have retired of my age have been
reasonably proven and if they haven't, then you know, I
(33:45):
just don't. I think that the solution that our aging
population is to get the young not in the situation
that they will be in.
Speaker 4 (33:56):
Richard, I can't agree more with you. And overseas again,
at least I can speak for Canada. That's what they
do do. They offer tax incentives to and matching contributions
quite generously. New Zealand you've probably remembered Ksaver's first rolled
out did offer everybody opened an account one thousand dollars
to get a kickstart, and then the matching contributions were
(34:18):
one thousand and forty three every you know, election year, well,
every second one it's been chipped away at. But you
raised a good point about getting started earlier and actually
getting more family members on board with that. I think
a lot of people still don't understand that you can
contribute into your kids kbsaver account or an investment kind
(34:38):
if they set that up, including grandparents. By the way,
it's just managed by ird so that you'll be rewarded
with like you were with your half million dollar balance.
If the earlier you get started as a compound interest, great,
I do that.
Speaker 7 (34:52):
If they do that, they and all this argument about
you know, when people should retire and start connecting the
pension will not be so relevant because you know, people
sometimes do need to retire young. And so my view
is they should just leave the retiring age at around
sixty five. Four people that are, well, you leave it
(35:15):
at sixty five and then then say, well, you know
from this date on maybe five years you'll pension or
will put the pension rate you know, six months out
every two years or whatever. But you can retire whenever
you like, and that will encourage people to be independent
(35:36):
and be independently wealthy. I think he we save it
is the most underrated and fantastic methodology or strategy for
ensuring wealth security throughout future.
Speaker 2 (35:52):
I think as it builds up ahead of steam over
the years and the generations, it will become one of
those things where eventually we will feel a bit more
like we've caught up with Australia a bit, but just
not now.
Speaker 4 (36:00):
But he again, Richard raises a really good point. Get
them started early. You know, it's I don't agree with
Whins and Peter's on too much, but you know, get
them started from birth and really heavily encourage parents to keep,
you know, chipping money into that fund and then you
won't have a problem later on in life.
Speaker 5 (36:18):
I agree.
Speaker 2 (36:19):
Right, we've got the callers rolling in, but it's almost
been a feature of the hours. It even calls sort
of towards the end. So we'll try and see if
we can squeeze a caller or two, or at least
another caller will be back in just a moment. It's
ten to six News Talks EDB, News Talk z B.
Somebody has mentioned hospital cures thousands a week as well,
says char and of course the retirement villages can easily
add a million, eat up a million dollars there's all
(36:41):
sorts of ways that you can blow your money once
you do retire or when you need it. But anyway,
let's continue. We've got time to squeze in. One more caller, Stephen, Hello.
Speaker 8 (36:49):
Yeah, Okay, I just want a little bit of clarification.
I was with a large New Zealand company for about
twenty years and I got made redundant when I was
sixty four or something like that, and so I've been
in there superannuation scheme. So I took a. I took
a you know, I got paid out, which was a
(37:11):
nicer amount of money. And I think because I was
in the super scheme, I wasn't allowed to join Kiwi Saber,
but that's not my question.
Speaker 7 (37:19):
Anyway.
Speaker 8 (37:20):
After that, I joined mine at ten and I stayed
there until I got to sixty five, and then I
got made redundant from there. It was COVID that happened there,
but I joined I joined Kiwisaber while I was at
Might Attend and so I got a and I took
(37:40):
the I took out a small amount of money. Now
I'm sixty eight and I've been working for a government department.
So I'm quite fortunate to have a job. But anyway,
I keep getting these emails saying your super scheme, I
don't know want of FEZ, but I want to.
Speaker 3 (37:59):
Oh no.
Speaker 8 (38:05):
For that.
Speaker 2 (38:06):
Sorry, sorry, Stephen, we won't be able to get you on.
That's just one of the things that happens when people
are driving hanger.
Speaker 4 (38:13):
But it sounds like if we fill in the blanks,
he's wanting to know what's left in there. So I
if I'm reading that right, please get in touch with
your former employer, do some digging with HR, and then
sort of backtrack until you can get some answers there.
Speaker 2 (38:26):
Yes, and look, we've suddenly had a flood of a
lot of people with their stories and unfortunately it's all
happened a bit late in the day, so we're not
going to be able to share those.
Speaker 3 (38:33):
But it's obviously means that these are.
Speaker 2 (38:35):
Conversations that people want to have during a smart money hour,
So it will you put this on ice in away.
But before we go, Amanda, you did have some resources I.
Speaker 7 (38:44):
Did to check out.
Speaker 4 (38:45):
It's because you were. Please next time I see you,
can you please use this calculator sorta. Dot org dot NZ,
which is run by the government, has some brilliant free
tools to use. They have a retirement calculator, so hop
online to sorta dot org, plug in your numbers. It
will tell you there's several inputs that you need to
put in included in quis ever balance any other savings,
(39:05):
and I'll give you an idea whether you're on track
to have the desired income that you would like in retirement.
Check your KEYPI siver balance as well. Every the annual
member statement shows you your projector balance. And there are
other tools out there, including chat. If you've got the
basic data, just fired in there or cloud whatever.
Speaker 3 (39:22):
Air tool use, get sorted, dot org, dot NZ.
Speaker 4 (39:26):
Yeah, and so please the last thing you should be
doing is head and this sound on this just find
out what the numbers are. It'll give you greater.
Speaker 2 (39:32):
Are you sure what I put in my expectations and
what I need? There won't be a sound effect that
goes wow.
Speaker 4 (39:37):
I think there's a different role leader here on the wall, Tin,
So we'll get that hurt started, I promise.
Speaker 3 (39:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:44):
Hey, great to chat, Amanda, Thank you so much for
coming in. And look, I've got to remind myself that
these are conversations people really do want to have, because
judging by the correspondence that's coming, even if it took
a while to build up ahead of steam. I think
we'll need to pick up this conversation in another time.
Speaker 3 (39:58):
Anyway, Hey, thanks for look.
Speaker 2 (40:00):
I hope you found it interesting listening as well, even
if it's just been a salutary reminder of you to
check out some resources.
Speaker 3 (40:06):
Thanks my producer Olivia Reed. Thank you, Olivia.
Speaker 2 (40:09):
Really appreciate your up today, and we'll be back next weekend.
Sunday at six is next. Have a wonderful evening. We'll
catch you soon
Speaker 1 (40:17):
To For more from the Weekend Collective, listen live to
News Talk SEDB weekends from three pm, or follow the
podcast on iHeartRadio.
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