Electricity and money go hand-in-hand. Every house needs power, and everything costs money.
So how do you balance the two in the midst of a Cost of Living Crisis? And what should you keep an eye out for that might impact the number on your energy bills?
Harbour Asset Management Co-CEO Andrew Bascand & Harbour Asset Management Senior Manager Sue Walker join Tim Beveridge on Smart Money.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
I'd be two guests this afternoon who are joining us
from Harborresset Management. I will actually let one of them
introduce the other. But what we're going to talk about,
broadly speaking, is the opportunity that is there for investors
and for the economy with electrification, and what it means
(00:29):
as an economic story, as an investment story, and anyway,
I won't say any more about it, just in case
I stumble and say something clumsy. But you're welcome to
join the conversation anytime if you are provoked or you
have a question for either of our two guests on
eight hundred and eighty ten eighty. And look, I've taken
to actually just saying you know, we want your call
sort of thing. All that blah blah blah is some
(00:51):
people don't call because they think, oh, I'm not going
to have all the answers. It's like, no, no, you're
just meant to join the conversation. You might have a question,
a thought, and if you want to share them with us,
then we'd love to hear them from you. On eight
hundred eighty ten eighty. But firstly, it's so warm, welcome
in the studio. Now it's a new trend for them,
for the folk of harbor Asset Management. Andrew Baskan, the
co chief executive officer of Harbarrasse Good Andrew, how let
(01:15):
me just Oh, you've got your MIC's on? Where you go?
You get a head Tim? Great, great to be here.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
Yeah, We've chosen on topic today because everyone uses electricity
and power and things are changing, changing a lot, and
I wanted to bring in one of our experts, Sue Walker.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Into the studio. First time.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
I've known Sue for quite some time, but she really
is an expert and not just responsible investing, but really
actually where the things are imported for households and businesses
in terms of power.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
I was just happy to see there were two people
coming in. I thought, Wow, we have made it, harb Rasse.
It are bringing in the you know, not just one,
but two people. So Hi, how are you hi?
Speaker 4 (01:50):
Good?
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Responsible investment it's sort of intuitively the right It tells
us what it is. It's it's investing in things that
aren't going to ruin the planet. I guess, is it Yeah, a.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
Little bit like that.
Speaker 4 (02:01):
And also you know, making sure that companies are doing
the right thing, managing the companies well, you know, being
a good community citizen, not using modern slavery in their
supply chains, all those things.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
How long have you been just tell us a bit
about you. How long have you been with the folk
at a harbor asset?
Speaker 4 (02:21):
So harbor? Only just over two years when quite a
new b I am quite a new be came across
from benzead yep.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
And how long have you been interested in the idea
of responsible investments?
Speaker 4 (02:32):
Probably? I mean it's something that I personally feel strongly about.
But working in the industry, about seven or eight years.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Okay, it's funny, isn't it, Guys? Because you know, responsible investing,
it feels like something that's quite recent. But if you
think back, I don't know how many decades people have.
When did the conversations actually begin around people thinking about
now I've got money, I want to make money out
of it, but I do want to think about how
that money is being invested. How long have we been
doing that for?
Speaker 3 (03:00):
I reckon the GFC was the big thing. We had
a lot of companies in the GFC where governance are poor.
Directors didn't do the right thing by their clients and
customers and came out of the GFC and recognized actually
have to change things how to think about how companies
are managed.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Are they managed just for.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
A lot of leverage short term profits? Everson greed, Well.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
It's been a lot changed in terms of what you
can say, and people are very careful about financial advice
now and everything I remember the days of I mean,
the one that sticks out to me is Hanover. We
won't mention that, sorry, and a particularly famous newsreader who
promoted an investment that just people lost a lot of
money with. I guess, wasn't it.
Speaker 3 (03:41):
Yeah, So the concept of responsible investment probably predates that
as well. But what's been really satisfying over the last
four or five years is actually making money. They're correlated
and what we're talking about today, obviously electrification, highly highly
important topic four responsible investing as well.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Right by the way, before we do, I did mention
to you beforehand because I sort of sold it to
the listeners. I just had a question for you guys
as experts, because you know the ip and this is
not related. And then we're going to get on to
our topic of the day, the IPO for SpaceX. I
have to say, not smuggling, because I didn't buy anything.
I didn't sell anything. I didn't do anything clever. But
(04:20):
I remember thinking, that's going to go through the roof.
Elon will be a trillionaire. Then all of a sudden,
it's the bottom is going to fall out of it.
I don't know where we are, but I was just thinking,
you know, I pos, It's like an Instagram offering, isn't it.
You see all the funny ideas and the data centers
and rockets and stuff, and it's Elon, let's buy that.
And then I sort of wonder if you are speaking
(04:40):
for a friend here. Maybe you're not, But but you know, obviously,
you know, if you're just talking about investing in one thing,
you've always got a lot of risk.
Speaker 3 (04:50):
Just investing in one thing's a bit of chance. And
so I pos themselves, if that's the only thing you're doing,
then probably you've got a higher risk profile, you're prepared
to have higher loss ratio.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
Right Do they always have a pattern, because I I
can't think of anything obvious, But it seems that you
get a popular stock, it goes on, it goes up,
then it goes down, and then I don't know what
it does.
Speaker 3 (05:12):
The crazy thing about SpaceX is that investors have been
able to invest in the whole airline stream of thought
and businesses for quite some time, both directly and indirectly.
The fact that SpaceX is IPO creates a broader range
of capability for investors to see a good business and
(05:32):
say that's something I want to invest for the next
decade or more. The problem with the concept of IPOs
is that there is always a little bit of additional
hype because you're exposed to a broad well, a broad story,
and someone wants to sell something to you, so you're
subject to advertising messages and you've got to basically cull
out that advertising message and say, do I want to
(05:55):
be an investor in this business for ten years, not
one month, not one week, not one day.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
But ten years.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
That's the sort of and is this a business that
over the next decade is going to be one it wins?
And without without being specific, that's exactly the broader, the
broader decision you need to make when you invest in
a single, particularly a single in.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
This it's like a gamble ist thing. It's like going
to the race. If somebody hears the IPO, I might
buy them and sell them after a few days. I
don't want to flog that one. I just wanted to,
you know, raise it because I did say to people
at the start of the show, I'd.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
Ask you, but by and large, people are much better
off investing in more diversified savings products by and large,
But if they want to have what I would call,
you know, experience of owning a tangible ten year journey
on an I p O.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
Because it's not a one it's not a one day
journey right now.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
Yeah, that's okay, but it is tied into this view.
But because SpaceX is very tied into the whole concept
of where are you going to get your power from?
Speaker 2 (06:52):
Well, are they a company you can invest in and
feel like you're a responsible investors.
Speaker 3 (06:57):
That's an interesting question, isn't it? Because part of part
of a story is where does he get the power
from to generate electricity for the data centers? And the
guys are renewable power freak.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
I had my daughter say to me Dad, I can't
remember what she said, but it was about filming a
lot of videos and sticking on Google photos. She said
were I mean, look, they're teenagers, but she they've become
aware of the power usage of these data centers and
how they're a problem for energy in terms of where
we get the energy from. And they were like, Dad,
(07:28):
you shouldn't be storing all these videos because someone has
to pay. That power has to come from somewhere, and
that's a cause of I don't know what they said
it was, but they had a stigma attached to it.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
And what's happening is policies generally developing quite rapidly. If
you want to put in another big new data center somewhere,
you're going to have to work out where the power
is going to come from. You have to create the
opportunity to connect that bread. So I think society has
moved on from the fact that that power is going
to be taken from here and distributed to there.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Okay, so let's get on to electrification, because I must say,
when I saw it electrification, all I thought of was
the CRL because that's never coming. But anyway, it is
coming at some stage, hopefully soon. But even the word electrification,
it was it was it was a word that sort
of it almost confused me because it's it's more than
(08:22):
just electrification. But so, why is electrification a big investment
economic story and where are we at with it?
Speaker 4 (08:33):
So I think it's just with you know, it's more
renewable energy side of the electrification story, so that you know,
a solar wind, hydro or probably not so much hydro,
but certainly solar and wind far becoming far cheaper than
things like coal gas for electricity. So it's you know,
(08:55):
think about us as homeowners being how to pay less
or for electricity. So that's a big economic story. It's
not just about climate anymore. It's it's cheaper, it's a
it's an energy that we can control. So you know,
we're all aware what's happening in the Middle East and
you know how that's impacting you know, prices for oil
(09:17):
and gas and how we're suffering because of it. Because
I think we were talking before that you know, while
New Zealand's great, we've got this you know, electricity generation
system that's eighty five percent renewable, our energy system is
only about forty five percent renewable. So we're sitting on
why do we.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
Not hear that? Because it's not politically sexy. It's like
we're eighty five for ninety. Now we're heading towards ninety
five percent renewables or whatever. And yet, as you say,
I was thinking, we'll hang on a minute. You know,
all our freight moves around the country with trucks burning diesel.
That's not just yeah, five percent.
Speaker 4 (09:50):
Possibly, it's a bit. It's a it's been a harder
thing to address. Yeah, i'd say than renewable energy, because
we're lucky. We've you know, we've got some great assets
in New Zealand with hydro and geothermal and now solar,
like we're building solar farms.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
Because the message a lot of people engage with this
side of the conversation based on I'm going to get
solder on my roof or I'm going to get an
EV and some people think, well I can't afford an
EV or whatever. But the angle that you're getting that
this is a question. It's about the opportunity for everyone.
Is it as an investment is that what?
Speaker 5 (10:25):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (10:25):
Absolutely?
Speaker 6 (10:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (10:26):
I mean you can either as an investor invest in
the companies that are either building you know, the solar parks,
the obviously the electricity generation companies. If you're looking off,
sure there'll be EV car makers, battery makers. You know,
that's a it's a huge growth story, because it's not
just a New Zealand growth story, it's an.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
Offshore how much gold is them? Is there in them?
The are hells? Then, metaphorically speaking with electrification, well.
Speaker 4 (10:52):
I mean even if we just look at New Zealand
and the fact that we've got such a long way
to go to electrify any everything, if you think about that,
if that's the journey we're on, which we believe we are,
then you know, we've got quite a lot, you know,
we've got to get We've probably got to you know,
quite a lot of growth.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
How a Huges.
Speaker 3 (11:08):
I mean, there's been this recent report which highlights by
even twenty thirty five, there's probably twenty two billion dollars
worth of additional who's money. Well, that money comes from
not importing eventually a whole lot of offshore energy in
terms of fossil fuel, oil, coal, gas. So that's the
(11:28):
start of the money that we're going to transfer to ourselves.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
So if I'm listening to this and think, God, I
really this sounds like something I need to be in
in on earlier on, I mean, actually, how far through
the journey are we if you would look at, you know,
a line how far along the journey are we to
getting cracking with this sort of stuff.
Speaker 4 (11:51):
Yeah, we're pretty well advanced, certainly on the electricity generation
side of things. We've got you know, there's lots of
solar being built around the country. We're starting to build
battery parks which will have up with the peaking and
the you know, the dry year period that you would
have heard everyone talk about. So we are well advanced.
(12:13):
We've got a long way to go because you with renewables,
so she with solar, and one you almost have to
overbuild to make sure that you have a really secure,
reliable system.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
The battery parks is So where are we at with that?
Because I don't know much about it, but there was
talk about us getting a who was looking at bringing
our data center here.
Speaker 3 (12:32):
So that's data grid down in South and that's something else.
But I want to bring everyone back to a topic
they can't see. But you could describe lot of a
whole cigarette lighter, but I assume it's a battery. That
is a battery and that's the one that classically you
would use to charge your phone when your phone goes
could put right.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
So that is thirty.
Speaker 3 (12:50):
Four watts worth of storage.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
Yeah, thirty four wats.
Speaker 3 (12:54):
So at home, I've got a battery which grabs my solar,
which which is rather large compared to this, it's six
hundred and sixty even times as much storage.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
So it's twenty thousand Why it's basically twenty three thousand
wat's basically.
Speaker 3 (13:11):
And then right, and then imagine, but imagine these at
scale grid batteries. Just imagine those, say, two hundred thousand
killer what not twenty four killer?
Speaker 1 (13:22):
What?
Speaker 2 (13:23):
Two hundred thousand killer?
Speaker 1 (13:24):
What?
Speaker 3 (13:24):
That is like more than eight thousand times bigger than
my battery at home. So we're now talking about grid
scale batteries, not these little ones I'm holding here that
we're doing a good job charging my mobile phone. But
I'm talking about batteries that will light up over forty
thousand homes at dinner time.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
I don't know what to ask about that because kind
of blow here. So power, what's feeding those batteries?
Speaker 3 (13:52):
Well, let me just give you another concept. You know,
we talk about the strait of hor moos being closed, right.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
And open and closed and open, okay, closed.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
Here, So the straight the straits of sunshine, wind and
batteries are open. So they're going to be open permanently,
and they're open at a cost structure that's beginning to
look really quite attractive.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
Is the strait of hor Move's issue is that creating
any particular extra energy in the market and pricing when
it comes to investing. I'll asking, by the way, if
any of these questions are dumb, so you can say
that's not the smartest question, but I know you question like,
in other words, is there a bit of hysteria around
electrical investment right now? And how do you get to
make sure you're not just paying because everyone's talking about
(14:33):
electricity because the straits closed?
Speaker 4 (14:35):
Yeah? Absolutely, Yeah. There are a lot of people, I think,
and rightly so going how can I protect myself against
the kind of sugar rush of prices with oil and
gas that we're seeing at the moment. So we've seen
huge uptake in ev inquiry or even registrations in New Zealand,
same thing in Australia. I think in Europe it was
(14:55):
something like seventy percent up in the first quarter so
post of February when US went into Iran, so all
of us sudden people And I think that's a really
important distinction because often with the electrification renewable energy investment
that we've seen today, it's come from government policy or
(15:17):
you know, people obviously wanting to do the right thing
when it comes to not you know, on the climate side.
But now we're seeing you know, individuals, so we're seeing
the demand side starting to happen. Where they're going. Actually,
I don't want to be subject to those prices anymore.
I need to replace my car. What does an EV
look like for me? Or you know, can I save
(15:40):
on my electricity prices at home? Do I put solar
on the roof? And what's you know, how much will
a battery cost me?
Speaker 2 (15:46):
So for investors, you want her listening, I think, actually
this is a story I want to I want to
actually put my money into. I mean, how do they
how do they what are the ways that they would participate.
I'm guessing that Harbor Acid obviously have funds in particular,
but I mean, how would that broadly speaking, they get
involved in that.
Speaker 4 (16:02):
I mean, I think Andrew mentioned it before. You know,
often it's that, you know, a diversified investment fund will
have exposure to a lot of these companies that are
so that you mentioned before, the electricity generators. We've got
mining companies that are digging stuff out of the ground
that support this.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
It's funny, that's almost counterintuitive, isn't it what we talk
about renewable and then a will to say we say mining,
but of course that's that's where we get this stuff from,
isn't it.
Speaker 3 (16:26):
You absolutely need copper, you need aluminium. These are the
critical minerals that create.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
The New Zealand. Do we know what news I mean?
Isn't it funny talking about electrification? Does that involve investing
in minds which I can hear Chloe Swarbrick sort of
having conniptions about the idea.
Speaker 3 (16:40):
Well, the reminds and the reminds of course, and where
where the reminds to where there's modern slavery going on
where we don't want that sort of stuff, and the
reminds probably you know, at the limit still involved in
fossil fuel coal, which probably is an interesting angle as well.
You probably want to be avoid that stuff. But if
you're mining for copper, this is the scarce resource.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
Okay, tell you what we need to take a break
and we'll come back. You're welcome to join the conversation
where we're with Sue Walker and Andrew Baskan from Harbor Asset Management.
We're talking about electrification and the opportunity when it comes
to we stick your money. Basically, I eight one hundred
and eighty ten and eight if you've got any questions
for them, because they know a lot more about it
than I do. Twenty four past five, News Talk said B.
(17:27):
News Talk said B. I'm Tim Beveridge and we're with
the We've got a two guests from Harbor Asset Management.
We're talking about the prospects of well, what's happening with
electrification as an investment story, as an economic story. And
we're with Andrew Baskand who is a co chief executive officer,
and Sue Walker, who's a senior manager for Responsible Investment.
I've got a text to go to guys first, because
(17:49):
you mentioned batteries and things like that. Somebody Simon has said,
funnily enough, having hydro and geothermal isn't down to luck alone. Yes,
we had the mountains, rivers and lakes, but planning got
us what we have, and our geothermal knowledge is world renowned.
Paddocks of deteriorating solar panels not so sure? Who wants
(18:09):
to answer that one?
Speaker 3 (18:10):
Yeah, Like I think this is a good context because
there's no doubt that hydro is still the base load for.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
Our electricity generation in New Zealand and still and.
Speaker 3 (18:18):
Still is recognized hydro is going for sixty sixty percent
of our Wow, it's huge, it's really big. And actually
we've just provided this reconsenting process for the next three
years for one of our largest storage systems.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
Lake Pukaki.
Speaker 3 (18:31):
You heard of that by mat Cock, and so we've
just consented the capacity to release something like one and
a half to two percent of our total electricity production
in one year should we need to, and went to
draw down right now.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
So there's new news on that.
Speaker 3 (18:48):
I'll talk about that, But let's what are we actually
doing today in investment? And the call is right in
a way because geothermal is still where we're investing a
lot of money. About five percent addition to our total
electricity production capacity will be in geothermals and the next.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
So geothermal and hydro sort of get grouped together. What's
their share of what they're giving.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
I have an exact number video thermal, but it's going
to be pushing up to sixty five to seventy percent
for geothermal.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
No, No, for edge. Sorry, it's about ten ten.
Speaker 3 (19:21):
But our new investment and based load isn't so much
in hydro, it is in geothermal. It's in Tahara. To
hook to me here, the big one could Beticana when that.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
That gets all go.
Speaker 3 (19:32):
These are all central North Island plateau drilling holes.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
So what are the things that would make investments investors
nervous about? It would how much this is relying on weather?
Speaker 3 (19:44):
I guess, well, well, the geo thermal isn't.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
And that's the exciting thing.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
But this is the true base load. Yeah, it's and
the idea of that base load, of course, it provides
support for our investment. This is weird in renewables. So
the more base load we do sue, the more solo
and when we can do.
Speaker 4 (20:02):
Yeah, absolutely, yeah, And I think, oh.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
Do you interrupt me anytime, because you're the one with
the facts, and I'm just you know.
Speaker 4 (20:11):
I guess I was just going to add, is that
it's not a one or two things. It's you know,
we need we need a lot of different renewables to
build the right energy system, and we've got hydro and
sol and wind, solar and wind that are all very
susceptible to weather and that's where the batteries come in,
so you wouldn't. Yeah, as we've experienced, probably more recently
(20:32):
with the dry year, it caused us a few issues
with having hydro, so we need other options that can
come into the come into the system as well. But
they're you know, absolutely right. The planning that's happening with
hydro and duathma will absolutely help us.
Speaker 3 (20:49):
And Simon are not not in line here. But here's
here's another response to your text. It's a good point
you make, but I forget most of our large industrial
solar parks are going in on land that isn't necessarily.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
Just for sheep.
Speaker 3 (21:02):
I think CO five Park at such International Airport will
be our largest solar farm.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
It's a terrific do you sealand does actually realize because
we see the politicians, we sort of go blah blah blah.
I mean, how do we understand. I don't think I
understand how big our solar investment is already. I mean
if I knew everything that you guys know about what
we're doing with the electrification, would I sort of go wow?
Because it still feels to many people it's oh, you know,
(21:29):
oil and gas and diesels is fringe.
Speaker 3 (21:31):
I think you go, well in terms of the investment
that's actually happening right now, I think you'd go, oh
my goodness that this is an industry you want to
be monitoring and thinking about how you.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Can support it.
Speaker 3 (21:40):
And there are two problems we're solving here. One is
the volatility of whossale electricity prices gets a whole lot
of headlines, but it's not great for business, not great
for un employment.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
We want to.
Speaker 3 (21:51):
Reduce that volatility of whosil prices and extent we can
invest in things that are going to bring down the
hostale electricity prices. Here's some news. So can you have
a chat about what's happened in Australia this year?
Speaker 4 (22:05):
Oh yeah, so it's it's pretty amazing story over there.
They have they built something like was it two thousand
or so with rooftop solar is a big thing that
for them, they've built something like two thousand per day
for the last quarter the implemented roofstop solar. Not all
(22:26):
of those have batteries, but a lot.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
Of individual Australian.
Speaker 4 (22:29):
Individual Australians there's a lot of incentives in Australia for
them to build those, a lot of incentives for them,
for individuals to households to put batteries in, and there
is something like is it six hundred thousand?
Speaker 2 (22:45):
What is it? I've just trying to lost my Ye,
I've got.
Speaker 4 (22:48):
Six hundred thousand home batteries.
Speaker 3 (22:50):
That's what I was.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
I've got a question for you along that line. Somebody
says high a solar power system at home would be
around thirty thousand dollars. Am I better to invest thirty
thousand dollars in solar at home or in an electrification company?
Speaker 3 (23:05):
Yeh, that's really good question.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
I mean that's from many people. They think my way
of saying of that paying its way is I'll get
solar and it'll be great, as you might say, well,
and for a lot.
Speaker 3 (23:16):
Of people to have that choice is just a terrific thing,
and many people listening won't have that choice. Is you
can I invest thirty thousand dollars?
Speaker 2 (23:23):
Can I invest in my home?
Speaker 3 (23:27):
But what you're doing investing in solar at home is
very clearly increasing the choices you have in terms of
your resilience, of your access to power, your time of
use of power. And then maybe making an assessment that
this is actually a payback for you because your house
has a capacity to have solar on your roof and
(23:49):
might be a three to four year payback, which has
maybe higher higher certainty than investing in a portfolio. So
I think there's quite a few things that go into this,
but there's no doubt we are well past the tipping point,
well past the point for most people investing in solar
at home will have a positive payback.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
Well pass it to most. We passed it passed. We
are in a positive so you will have a positive
payback if you invest thirty the most. So if I
got solar on my roof, it would end up being
a positive financial equation rather than me just feeling good, and.
Speaker 3 (24:23):
We would say knit knit present value positive.
Speaker 4 (24:26):
Really yeah, I mean I can probably example, we had
solar on one of our properties and and a battery.
I think our electricity bill for the year was probably
around five or six hundred dollars.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
The whole year, for the whole year.
Speaker 4 (24:40):
So if you're if you're thinking about what you've paid,
and you were so.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
If you're paying four grand a year, what would the
average power I don't know what the average powerball would be.
Most people probably three to four one hundred bucks a month.
Speaker 4 (24:52):
I would say probably more like two to three hundred
people would be paying.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
And so it's two months and the rest of the
year free. And so these these low energy loans, you know,
I mean, that's a different thing we'd have to look
at with her.
Speaker 4 (25:02):
But yeah, and one I just wanted to add one
thing on what's coming through Australia with rooftop solo is
that it's changing when the peaks happen in their system.
It's making peaking cheaper, which is what costs us from
an electricity perspective. So individuals having solar on their homes
(25:23):
means that the whole system is cheaper for everyone else. Okay,
so you kind of benefit.
Speaker 3 (25:28):
Specifically, in the first quarter, Australian wholesale electricity prices were
twelve percent lower in the same quarter a year ago.
And this is put down to many publications. There's significant
investment not just in rooftop solar, in batteries at home,
but in over one hundred utility level battery energy storage systems.
They've really gone for it.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
I've got a caller, we'll go to a chuck. I'll
just ask you to hold on for set because I've
got a question around all this, how much of your
investment in this new world of electrification, battery storage and
all that, how much of it is dependent on government?
We've got them because today we've heard Winston Peters wants
to spend a billion dollars looking for new oil and
gas and we still need oil and gas. I mean,
(26:12):
look how we get our goods around the country. Help
me out, oh, help you out in this one.
Speaker 3 (26:18):
We're not doing this for climate change. We're doing it
because economics have arrived where electrification makes just a lot
of sense for many industries and for many households.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
And that's the whole point. That actually is what you
boiled it down to it. This is no longer we're
doing this because Chloe's my best mate or whatever. We're
doing this because investors understand that there is now money
to be made because this is the world we're living in.
This that's that's the core message.
Speaker 6 (26:45):
Isn't it.
Speaker 4 (26:46):
And businesses get to save money because electricity will become
cheaper so they can invest that into the business and
other things. Productivity increases, it becomes you know, it's quite
a key part of it.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
But how much does it rely on government well, because
for instance, in Australia, they've got incentive schemes I gather
through government or state government whatever for or rooftop solar.
I mean, how much of that is driven by policies
of a government that says we believe this is the future. Too.
Speaker 3 (27:12):
We're seeing private companies invest in renewables flat out now.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
We've seen the inflation of.
Speaker 3 (27:17):
Four big battery energy story systems in New Zealand, tour coming,
We've seen a large solar rays put in, and we're
seeing a huge amount of investment in your therm will
occur across five different web sites. I think we're at
the point now of it's just great that we can
think about electrification for New zeal going forward.
Speaker 4 (27:38):
And I think.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
Carry out now it's just gesturing too. Mind we've got
a call on him just checking hill Oltill after the
break and he will also carry I say.
Speaker 4 (27:47):
I think I think any business will tell you that
government policy certainty is really helpful when you're investing in
these things. But what Andrew is talking about is.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
That it doesn't matter in a way because there's enough
private sense to this.
Speaker 4 (27:59):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely, and then yeah, the demand is
starting to happen.
Speaker 3 (28:05):
Just to finish off, you can imagine that if we
do all these things, we will actually preserve for a
longer time frame our scarce guest resources, which are quite
scarce in New Zealand as it is. So it might
buy time. It might buy time for the discovery of
the next ten years of where our resources are. Because
that's what Winston said today isn't going to solve a
problem tomorrow the next day. It's a very very long
(28:27):
dated He hopes it.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
All election on lack of it is. We're going to
be back in just a moment, oh one hundred and
eighty ten eighty. We'll be back with Chuck, who's got
a question around Well, we'll find out after the break.
It is twenty one and a half minutes to six
News Talks EDB. Yes, welcome back to News Talks B.
This is smart Money. We've got a special smart money
really because we have two guests from Harbor Asset Management.
(28:51):
Andrew Bascin is the co chief CEO and the co
CEO should I say, and Sue Walker, who's the manager
response for a Responsible Investment, and we're talking about the
move and the change that's happening towards not just because
governments do or don't like it, but the private sector
and renewables and electrification and let's take a hem, we'll
(29:14):
go to a call first, Let's go to Chuck. Thanks
for holding check.
Speaker 5 (29:18):
Hi, Yes, I was going to ask him what they
thought about having nuclear power. Of course we'd have to
do something about luxon.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
What do you mean, has he ruled it out? Oh?
You mean, yeah, that's right, nuclear free? That's right. Okay,
But firstly, before we do check, do you realistically think
that nuclear is an option for New Zealand or do
you think what do you think?
Speaker 5 (29:44):
I think it is. It certainly should be considered in
cost it out because if the nuclear over in Australia,
the labor lot we're saying it was costs far, far,
far too much. But how do other countries manage to
use nuclear if it's far more expensive? France is nearly totally.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
Nu Yeah, okay, Andrew is going to chip in on
this one. Andrew, he's just flicking through some bits of
paper there.
Speaker 3 (30:17):
I think this is a really good point check because
we know that nuclear provided the backbone of the growth
and power in the nineteen seventies, nineteen eighties and some
countries the nineteen nineties terrific, and France, of course, is
that I've been leading European country in that regard. Germany's
turned off their nuclear I'm not sure there was a
terrific idea, but in France. In France, what we've seen
(30:39):
in the last five years is solar has absolutely taken
over from from nuclear in terms of all the new
power added.
Speaker 2 (30:48):
So much so soon.
Speaker 3 (30:49):
I think I'll be right here that on sunny days
and summer the price of power is negative now in France,
and are right in saying that.
Speaker 4 (30:55):
It's certainly happening in Europe. I'm not one hundred percent
sure about France, but seeing that in stain.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
Woll, Yeah, is that news to you? Chuck that while
they've because people do talk about France, I talk about France,
and now here we learning that the major investments.
Speaker 3 (31:09):
So the big thing check is now harnessing that daytime
solar with batteries, large industrial grid scale batteries, so you
can take the sunshine from the daytime and use that
daylight at nighttime. But I am interested in a couple
of technologies that probably won't be in my lifetime.
Speaker 2 (31:29):
Wednesday, but I think.
Speaker 3 (31:31):
Fusion is seriously something that will be quite intriguing, and
New Zealand has its own little company in that regard,
looking at that open star. Obviously, there are many many
fusion companies now breaking through with their first opportunity. And secondly,
in New Zealand, we're one of two or three countries
globally that are looking at super critical geothermal. And that's
(31:53):
something you should go do Google or copart or chat
chat super critical super critical geothermal, and they're probably only
three or four places on Earth that have this resource potential.
And it's it's not nuclear power, but it's damn near
close to it. I think we're talking about four thousand degrees.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
Of potential.
Speaker 3 (32:15):
Energy down there, so we do geo therminal at the moment,
I forget that, so it's probably five hundred degrees or something,
but supercritical.
Speaker 2 (32:21):
Right, Chuck. Actually, I've got a question for you won
your response to that, but also as an investor, because
you're a pragmatic guy. We've spoken for years now. Yeah,
and you're like to put money where it makes money.
Do you? What do you what's your response to or
thoughts about where you want to stick your dough when
it comes to electrification.
Speaker 5 (32:40):
Well, I've got it with the power companies. But talking
about these batteries that hasn't worked too well in Australia.
Hasn't it not well at all?
Speaker 2 (32:54):
What's happened in Australia.
Speaker 5 (32:56):
Oh, they just they just haven't got this system going,
a big battery thing. And what would happen if it
ever caught fire?
Speaker 2 (33:08):
Okay, what do we know about that? I mean, this
is a technical question. If you're across that one guys
were fire apart.
Speaker 4 (33:15):
Yeah, yeah, I mean I think there is you know,
there are some issues, but they built the battery parks
are built in such a way that the on top
of that fire pretty quickly, you know, so if what
it's not like, the whole park is you know, is
going to go up. Yeah, I mean there is fire risk,
but they know they're built with a lot of safety
(33:38):
measures in mind. And I'm interested in the things aren't
going well in Australia for batteries because they think the
third country in the world for deploying of batteries and
it's definitely having an impact on their electricity prices. Peaking,
you know, it's taking over from gas for peaking. So
(33:58):
I wasn't sure, not too sure what part of it
it's not going well?
Speaker 2 (34:04):
Well I watched, but would you I mean, I guess
for you. What do you want to hear that would
make you think? You know, I'm going to shift my
portfolio to have a bit more involved in the electrification
side of things.
Speaker 5 (34:20):
I've already got the powered companies and that already. But
what they should do if you're looking at energy, they
should look at what David Seymour thinks, not what Chris looks.
And because David Seymour is an electrical engineer, is that
before even into parliament?
Speaker 2 (34:41):
Yeah? Okay, no, good, good point. He hate good to
hear from your check. We have to take a break
now and we'll be back and just to take for
a few more comments. We might be able to actually speak,
we might be able to squ squeeze another caller, but
we'll see how we go. This is News Talks, he'd
b It's twelve minutes to six news Talk shid B
on Tim Beverridges is Smart Money with Andrew besk And
and Sue Walker from Harbor Asset Management. Time for one quick,
(35:05):
one more quick call Ben.
Speaker 6 (35:06):
Hello, you get it, guys, Yeah, look off it since
till nineteen, just prior to COVID and on the roof,
I don't have batteries to sold it, but I absolutely swear,
but it's shaved the power and a half. But what
I was quit ringing about is the people looking at
that plug and solar. The government announced them, and I
(35:30):
was looking for it for my mother who's in an apartment.
I've been talking to friends in France have it, and
they're actually dismantling. Who isn't chucking in the bin because
they said the government's just mandated that they have liability
insurance and the liability insurance is one hundred bucks a
year more than what the plug and Solo was saving
them about coos, So it's it's completely it's completely destroyed
(35:55):
market over there.
Speaker 2 (35:57):
Yeah, I don't know about what. You've got any comments
on that soon?
Speaker 4 (35:59):
No, I honestly I didn't know about that. I mean,
I've been saw that plug and Solo was something that
they're pushing for, which would be great if you're renting
or Yeah, obviously apartments is a good use. But no,
I didn't know about this. Okay, liability insurance. It sounds
like there's maybe some more improvement needed in technology there.
Speaker 2 (36:18):
Yeah before it. Hey, thanks for you court been Sorry,
we are running short time. I'll just quickly respond to
one text. Somebody said, Tim, yet again you just cut
your expert off as he was explaining the four thousand
degrees to your thermal thing, which was fascinating. When I
didn't cut him off, Andrew actually suggested that we should
chat GPT and you should look it up and google it.
What what's it called?
Speaker 4 (36:37):
Critical supercritical geo Thermal.
Speaker 2 (36:39):
Yeah, so he was. I think you passed that to
me and told me to go and chat gp T.
Speaker 3 (36:45):
It didn't you, Andrew, and you might get research article
published by Sue a little while ago and Zypo critical.
She's a pretty good and expert in house of it.
Speaker 2 (36:53):
Yeah, it's fast. Look, I just stuck it into chat GPT.
And even the facts that are unfurling what Iceland, Japan,
Italy and New Zealand, which which is considered one of
the world's best prospects because of high temperature gfilm fields
around the Central North Island exciting, which leads to the
question of all this in the whole scheme of things
when it comes to investment, renewables, batteries, solar electrification the
(37:16):
whole shaban. If people are listening to this and they think,
I don't want to get caught up in the hysteria
that's coming out of people going the straits of all
moves and all that sort of thing. How do people
access investments into this without feeling that they're falling for
the hype that people fell for for SpaceX. So how
do you invest in our whole discussion and go I
(37:36):
want to stick some money into this? Where do I go?
Speaker 3 (37:38):
Look, there's lots of global disruptive change. You know, we've
seen that obviously with AI. We've seen that earlier on
with these GLP one drugs that we've talked about. Electrification
has been like something going on for one hundred and
fifty years or at the point now where the economics
of electrification have continued to push very hard on renewables,
(37:59):
on batteries, And that's what Sue and I are saying.
So that whole chain of disruptive of opportunity and electrification,
it's not about one point of investment. And that's why
we think as investors we need to understand whether it's
the mining company that's producing the copper, whether it's the
(38:21):
grid manufacturer who's installing that copper in the aluminium where
it's the transformers at this end, right through to the
clever innovation in geothermal that's occurring in wind and solar.
The whole chain is very investible because my view would
be don't try and pick a winner. Yes, that would
be my view. Don't try and pick a winder. The
(38:42):
whole chain is likely to be very investable.
Speaker 2 (38:45):
The reason I mentioned it is because you're not here
selling anything for harbor asset management. You're not talking about
a fund you've got. You're simply talking about the whole
what's what we see happening. But you did what I
had to chat with you in the break. There are
there funds that actually do a good job of focusing
on this sort of investment. That is my question in
terms of the bigger picture of life.
Speaker 3 (39:05):
As soon as you invest in the New Zealand and
equity market or the New Zealand bond market, you've got
a lot of great companies, well managed that are continuing
to produce good profits and investing.
Speaker 2 (39:14):
New Zealand's got good companies.
Speaker 3 (39:15):
But globally there are infrastructure funds that are worthwhile having
a good look at it, that's the only thing you
want to invest in.
Speaker 2 (39:22):
But I'd be aware.
Speaker 3 (39:23):
I'll go right back to that initial comment that we
had regarding SpaceX that went off. You know, if you
really want to think about investing and one particular piece
of kit or technology, it's not a one day, two day,
one month, one quarter, one year investment. That is a
very long term investment.
Speaker 2 (39:39):
Okay, yeah, I just because I know that the New
Zealand things like I want to put some money this,
I've got ten thousand bucks, where do I put it?
Or something? But you would be giving the less exciting
answer of like, look, talk to you. I don't know,
look at your key, we say what they are doing.
Trust the broader picture of things.
Speaker 3 (39:57):
And I'd go back and have a look at this
as well. Is it suitable in my own house. I
could look and think about my electrification and it can
start small. That motormard you need to replace it with another,
a combustion engine. I could just be a new check one, right,
be sensible. I'm sorry, that is an investment.
Speaker 2 (40:15):
Okay, Hey, look we barely scratched the tip of the
iceberg where the calls rolling in at the end, and
of course I have to say sorry, times up. You
need to be earlier, Andrew soone, thanks so much for
coming in.
Speaker 4 (40:25):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (40:25):
Enjoy the rest of the evening thanks to my producer Lot.
If you've missed any of this conversation, I suggest you
can check out our podcast what Shall Be Up in
a few minutes basically for the whole show. Go and
listen to it all again. Some fantastic stuff on there,
and we'll look forward to your company next weekend. Catch
you soon.
Speaker 1 (40:52):
For more from the Weekend Collective, listen live to News
Talk Said Be weekends from three pm, or follow the
podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
I'd be two guests this afternoon who are joining us
from Harborresset Management. I will actually let one of them
introduce the other. But what we're going to talk about,
broadly speaking, is the opportunity that is there for investors
and for the economy with electrification, and what it means
(00:29):
as an economic story, as an investment story, and anyway,
I won't say any more about it, just in case
I stumble and say something clumsy. But you're welcome to
join the conversation anytime if you are provoked or you
have a question for either of our two guests on
eight hundred and eighty ten eighty. And look, I've taken
to actually just saying you know, we want your call
sort of thing. All that blah blah blah is some
(00:51):
people don't call because they think, oh, I'm not going
to have all the answers. It's like, no, no, you're
just meant to join the conversation. You might have a question,
a thought, and if you want to share them with us,
then we'd love to hear them from you. On eight
hundred eighty ten eighty. But firstly, it's so warm, welcome
in the studio. Now it's a new trend for them,
for the folk of harbor Asset Management. Andrew Baskan, the
co chief executive officer of Harbarrasse Good Andrew, how let
(01:15):
me just Oh, you've got your MIC's on? Where you go?
You get a head Tim? Great, great to be here.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
Yeah, We've chosen on topic today because everyone uses electricity
and power and things are changing, changing a lot, and
I wanted to bring in one of our experts, Sue Walker.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Into the studio. First time.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
I've known Sue for quite some time, but she really
is an expert and not just responsible investing, but really
actually where the things are imported for households and businesses
in terms of power.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
I was just happy to see there were two people
coming in. I thought, Wow, we have made it, harb Rasse.
It are bringing in the you know, not just one,
but two people. So Hi, how are you hi?
Speaker 4 (01:50):
Good?
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Responsible investment it's sort of intuitively the right It tells
us what it is. It's it's investing in things that
aren't going to ruin the planet. I guess, is it Yeah, a.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
Little bit like that.
Speaker 4 (02:01):
And also you know, making sure that companies are doing
the right thing, managing the companies well, you know, being
a good community citizen, not using modern slavery in their
supply chains, all those things.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
How long have you been just tell us a bit
about you. How long have you been with the folk
at a harbor asset?
Speaker 4 (02:21):
So harbor? Only just over two years when quite a
new b I am quite a new be came across
from benzead yep.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
And how long have you been interested in the idea
of responsible investments?
Speaker 4 (02:32):
Probably? I mean it's something that I personally feel strongly about.
But working in the industry, about seven or eight years.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Okay, it's funny, isn't it, Guys? Because you know, responsible investing,
it feels like something that's quite recent. But if you
think back, I don't know how many decades people have.
When did the conversations actually begin around people thinking about
now I've got money, I want to make money out
of it, but I do want to think about how
that money is being invested. How long have we been
doing that for?
Speaker 3 (03:00):
I reckon the GFC was the big thing. We had
a lot of companies in the GFC where governance are poor.
Directors didn't do the right thing by their clients and
customers and came out of the GFC and recognized actually
have to change things how to think about how companies
are managed.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Are they managed just for.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
A lot of leverage short term profits? Everson greed, Well.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
It's been a lot changed in terms of what you
can say, and people are very careful about financial advice
now and everything I remember the days of I mean,
the one that sticks out to me is Hanover. We
won't mention that, sorry, and a particularly famous newsreader who
promoted an investment that just people lost a lot of
money with. I guess, wasn't it.
Speaker 3 (03:41):
Yeah, So the concept of responsible investment probably predates that
as well. But what's been really satisfying over the last
four or five years is actually making money. They're correlated
and what we're talking about today, obviously electrification, highly highly
important topic four responsible investing as well.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Right by the way, before we do, I did mention
to you beforehand because I sort of sold it to
the listeners. I just had a question for you guys
as experts, because you know the ip and this is
not related. And then we're going to get on to
our topic of the day, the IPO for SpaceX. I
have to say, not smuggling, because I didn't buy anything.
I didn't sell anything. I didn't do anything clever. But
(04:20):
I remember thinking, that's going to go through the roof.
Elon will be a trillionaire. Then all of a sudden,
it's the bottom is going to fall out of it.
I don't know where we are, but I was just thinking,
you know, I pos, It's like an Instagram offering, isn't it.
You see all the funny ideas and the data centers
and rockets and stuff, and it's Elon, let's buy that.
And then I sort of wonder if you are speaking
(04:40):
for a friend here. Maybe you're not, But but you know, obviously,
you know, if you're just talking about investing in one thing,
you've always got a lot of risk.
Speaker 3 (04:50):
Just investing in one thing's a bit of chance. And
so I pos themselves, if that's the only thing you're doing,
then probably you've got a higher risk profile, you're prepared
to have higher loss ratio.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
Right Do they always have a pattern, because I I
can't think of anything obvious, But it seems that you
get a popular stock, it goes on, it goes up,
then it goes down, and then I don't know what
it does.
Speaker 3 (05:12):
The crazy thing about SpaceX is that investors have been
able to invest in the whole airline stream of thought
and businesses for quite some time, both directly and indirectly.
The fact that SpaceX is IPO creates a broader range
of capability for investors to see a good business and
(05:32):
say that's something I want to invest for the next
decade or more. The problem with the concept of IPOs
is that there is always a little bit of additional
hype because you're exposed to a broad well, a broad story,
and someone wants to sell something to you, so you're
subject to advertising messages and you've got to basically cull
out that advertising message and say, do I want to
(05:55):
be an investor in this business for ten years, not
one month, not one week, not one day.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
But ten years.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
That's the sort of and is this a business that
over the next decade is going to be one it wins?
And without without being specific, that's exactly the broader, the
broader decision you need to make when you invest in
a single, particularly a single in.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
This it's like a gamble ist thing. It's like going
to the race. If somebody hears the IPO, I might
buy them and sell them after a few days. I
don't want to flog that one. I just wanted to,
you know, raise it because I did say to people
at the start of the show, I'd.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
Ask you, but by and large, people are much better
off investing in more diversified savings products by and large,
But if they want to have what I would call,
you know, experience of owning a tangible ten year journey
on an I p O.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
Because it's not a one it's not a one day
journey right now.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
Yeah, that's okay, but it is tied into this view.
But because SpaceX is very tied into the whole concept
of where are you going to get your power from?
Speaker 2 (06:52):
Well, are they a company you can invest in and
feel like you're a responsible investors.
Speaker 3 (06:57):
That's an interesting question, isn't it? Because part of part
of a story is where does he get the power
from to generate electricity for the data centers? And the
guys are renewable power freak.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
I had my daughter say to me Dad, I can't
remember what she said, but it was about filming a
lot of videos and sticking on Google photos. She said
were I mean, look, they're teenagers, but she they've become
aware of the power usage of these data centers and
how they're a problem for energy in terms of where
we get the energy from. And they were like, Dad,
(07:28):
you shouldn't be storing all these videos because someone has
to pay. That power has to come from somewhere, and
that's a cause of I don't know what they said
it was, but they had a stigma attached to it.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
And what's happening is policies generally developing quite rapidly. If
you want to put in another big new data center somewhere,
you're going to have to work out where the power
is going to come from. You have to create the
opportunity to connect that bread. So I think society has
moved on from the fact that that power is going
to be taken from here and distributed to there.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Okay, so let's get on to electrification, because I must say,
when I saw it electrification, all I thought of was
the CRL because that's never coming. But anyway, it is
coming at some stage, hopefully soon. But even the word electrification,
it was it was it was a word that sort
of it almost confused me because it's it's more than
(08:22):
just electrification. But so, why is electrification a big investment
economic story and where are we at with it?
Speaker 4 (08:33):
So I think it's just with you know, it's more
renewable energy side of the electrification story, so that you know,
a solar wind, hydro or probably not so much hydro,
but certainly solar and wind far becoming far cheaper than
things like coal gas for electricity. So it's you know,
(08:55):
think about us as homeowners being how to pay less
or for electricity. So that's a big economic story. It's
not just about climate anymore. It's it's cheaper, it's a
it's an energy that we can control. So you know,
we're all aware what's happening in the Middle East and
you know how that's impacting you know, prices for oil
(09:17):
and gas and how we're suffering because of it. Because
I think we were talking before that you know, while
New Zealand's great, we've got this you know, electricity generation
system that's eighty five percent renewable, our energy system is
only about forty five percent renewable. So we're sitting on
why do we.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
Not hear that? Because it's not politically sexy. It's like
we're eighty five for ninety. Now we're heading towards ninety
five percent renewables or whatever. And yet, as you say,
I was thinking, we'll hang on a minute. You know,
all our freight moves around the country with trucks burning diesel.
That's not just yeah, five percent.
Speaker 4 (09:50):
Possibly, it's a bit. It's a it's been a harder
thing to address. Yeah, i'd say than renewable energy, because
we're lucky. We've you know, we've got some great assets
in New Zealand with hydro and geothermal and now solar,
like we're building solar farms.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
Because the message a lot of people engage with this
side of the conversation based on I'm going to get
solder on my roof or I'm going to get an
EV and some people think, well I can't afford an
EV or whatever. But the angle that you're getting that
this is a question. It's about the opportunity for everyone.
Is it as an investment is that what?
Speaker 5 (10:25):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (10:25):
Absolutely?
Speaker 6 (10:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (10:26):
I mean you can either as an investor invest in
the companies that are either building you know, the solar parks,
the obviously the electricity generation companies. If you're looking off,
sure there'll be EV car makers, battery makers. You know,
that's a it's a huge growth story, because it's not
just a New Zealand growth story, it's an.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
Offshore how much gold is them? Is there in them?
The are hells? Then, metaphorically speaking with electrification, well.
Speaker 4 (10:52):
I mean even if we just look at New Zealand
and the fact that we've got such a long way
to go to electrify any everything, if you think about that,
if that's the journey we're on, which we believe we are,
then you know, we've got quite a lot, you know,
we've got to get We've probably got to you know,
quite a lot of growth.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
How a Huges.
Speaker 3 (11:08):
I mean, there's been this recent report which highlights by
even twenty thirty five, there's probably twenty two billion dollars
worth of additional who's money. Well, that money comes from
not importing eventually a whole lot of offshore energy in
terms of fossil fuel, oil, coal, gas. So that's the
(11:28):
start of the money that we're going to transfer to ourselves.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
So if I'm listening to this and think, God, I
really this sounds like something I need to be in
in on earlier on, I mean, actually, how far through
the journey are we if you would look at, you know,
a line how far along the journey are we to
getting cracking with this sort of stuff.
Speaker 4 (11:51):
Yeah, we're pretty well advanced, certainly on the electricity generation
side of things. We've got you know, there's lots of
solar being built around the country. We're starting to build
battery parks which will have up with the peaking and
the you know, the dry year period that you would
have heard everyone talk about. So we are well advanced.
(12:13):
We've got a long way to go because you with renewables,
so she with solar, and one you almost have to
overbuild to make sure that you have a really secure,
reliable system.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
The battery parks is So where are we at with that?
Because I don't know much about it, but there was
talk about us getting a who was looking at bringing
our data center here.
Speaker 3 (12:32):
So that's data grid down in South and that's something else.
But I want to bring everyone back to a topic
they can't see. But you could describe lot of a
whole cigarette lighter, but I assume it's a battery. That
is a battery and that's the one that classically you
would use to charge your phone when your phone goes
could put right.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
So that is thirty.
Speaker 3 (12:50):
Four watts worth of storage.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
Yeah, thirty four wats.
Speaker 3 (12:54):
So at home, I've got a battery which grabs my solar,
which which is rather large compared to this, it's six
hundred and sixty even times as much storage.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
So it's twenty thousand Why it's basically twenty three thousand
wat's basically.
Speaker 3 (13:11):
And then right, and then imagine, but imagine these at
scale grid batteries. Just imagine those, say, two hundred thousand
killer what not twenty four killer?
Speaker 1 (13:22):
What?
Speaker 2 (13:23):
Two hundred thousand killer?
Speaker 1 (13:24):
What?
Speaker 3 (13:24):
That is like more than eight thousand times bigger than
my battery at home. So we're now talking about grid
scale batteries, not these little ones I'm holding here that
we're doing a good job charging my mobile phone. But
I'm talking about batteries that will light up over forty
thousand homes at dinner time.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
I don't know what to ask about that because kind
of blow here. So power, what's feeding those batteries?
Speaker 3 (13:52):
Well, let me just give you another concept. You know,
we talk about the strait of hor moos being closed, right.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
And open and closed and open, okay, closed.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
Here, So the straight the straits of sunshine, wind and
batteries are open. So they're going to be open permanently,
and they're open at a cost structure that's beginning to
look really quite attractive.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
Is the strait of hor Move's issue is that creating
any particular extra energy in the market and pricing when
it comes to investing. I'll asking, by the way, if
any of these questions are dumb, so you can say
that's not the smartest question, but I know you question like,
in other words, is there a bit of hysteria around
electrical investment right now? And how do you get to
make sure you're not just paying because everyone's talking about
(14:33):
electricity because the straits closed?
Speaker 4 (14:35):
Yeah? Absolutely, Yeah. There are a lot of people, I think,
and rightly so going how can I protect myself against
the kind of sugar rush of prices with oil and
gas that we're seeing at the moment. So we've seen
huge uptake in ev inquiry or even registrations in New Zealand,
same thing in Australia. I think in Europe it was
(14:55):
something like seventy percent up in the first quarter so
post of February when US went into Iran, so all
of us sudden people And I think that's a really
important distinction because often with the electrification renewable energy investment
that we've seen today, it's come from government policy or
(15:17):
you know, people obviously wanting to do the right thing
when it comes to not you know, on the climate side.
But now we're seeing you know, individuals, so we're seeing
the demand side starting to happen. Where they're going. Actually,
I don't want to be subject to those prices anymore.
I need to replace my car. What does an EV
look like for me? Or you know, can I save
(15:40):
on my electricity prices at home? Do I put solar
on the roof? And what's you know, how much will
a battery cost me?
Speaker 2 (15:46):
So for investors, you want her listening, I think, actually
this is a story I want to I want to
actually put my money into. I mean, how do they
how do they what are the ways that they would participate.
I'm guessing that Harbor Acid obviously have funds in particular,
but I mean, how would that broadly speaking, they get
involved in that.
Speaker 4 (16:02):
I mean, I think Andrew mentioned it before. You know,
often it's that, you know, a diversified investment fund will
have exposure to a lot of these companies that are
so that you mentioned before, the electricity generators. We've got
mining companies that are digging stuff out of the ground
that support this.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
It's funny, that's almost counterintuitive, isn't it what we talk
about renewable and then a will to say we say mining,
but of course that's that's where we get this stuff from,
isn't it.
Speaker 3 (16:26):
You absolutely need copper, you need aluminium. These are the
critical minerals that create.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
The New Zealand. Do we know what news I mean?
Isn't it funny talking about electrification? Does that involve investing
in minds which I can hear Chloe Swarbrick sort of
having conniptions about the idea.
Speaker 3 (16:40):
Well, the reminds and the reminds of course, and where
where the reminds to where there's modern slavery going on
where we don't want that sort of stuff, and the
reminds probably you know, at the limit still involved in
fossil fuel coal, which probably is an interesting angle as well.
You probably want to be avoid that stuff. But if
you're mining for copper, this is the scarce resource.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
Okay, tell you what we need to take a break
and we'll come back. You're welcome to join the conversation
where we're with Sue Walker and Andrew Baskan from Harbor Asset Management.
We're talking about electrification and the opportunity when it comes
to we stick your money. Basically, I eight one hundred
and eighty ten and eight if you've got any questions
for them, because they know a lot more about it
than I do. Twenty four past five, News Talk said B.
(17:27):
News Talk said B. I'm Tim Beveridge and we're with
the We've got a two guests from Harbor Asset Management.
We're talking about the prospects of well, what's happening with
electrification as an investment story, as an economic story. And
we're with Andrew Baskand who is a co chief executive officer,
and Sue Walker, who's a senior manager for Responsible Investment.
I've got a text to go to guys first, because
(17:49):
you mentioned batteries and things like that. Somebody Simon has said,
funnily enough, having hydro and geothermal isn't down to luck alone. Yes,
we had the mountains, rivers and lakes, but planning got
us what we have, and our geothermal knowledge is world renowned.
Paddocks of deteriorating solar panels not so sure? Who wants
(18:09):
to answer that one?
Speaker 3 (18:10):
Yeah, Like I think this is a good context because
there's no doubt that hydro is still the base load for.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
Our electricity generation in New Zealand and still and.
Speaker 3 (18:18):
Still is recognized hydro is going for sixty sixty percent
of our Wow, it's huge, it's really big. And actually
we've just provided this reconsenting process for the next three
years for one of our largest storage systems.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
Lake Pukaki.
Speaker 3 (18:31):
You heard of that by mat Cock, and so we've
just consented the capacity to release something like one and
a half to two percent of our total electricity production
in one year should we need to, and went to
draw down right now.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
So there's new news on that.
Speaker 3 (18:48):
I'll talk about that, But let's what are we actually
doing today in investment? And the call is right in
a way because geothermal is still where we're investing a
lot of money. About five percent addition to our total
electricity production capacity will be in geothermals and the next.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
So geothermal and hydro sort of get grouped together. What's
their share of what they're giving.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
I have an exact number video thermal, but it's going
to be pushing up to sixty five to seventy percent
for geothermal.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
No, No, for edge. Sorry, it's about ten ten.
Speaker 3 (19:21):
But our new investment and based load isn't so much
in hydro, it is in geothermal. It's in Tahara. To
hook to me here, the big one could Beticana when that.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
That gets all go.
Speaker 3 (19:32):
These are all central North Island plateau drilling holes.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
So what are the things that would make investments investors
nervous about? It would how much this is relying on weather?
Speaker 3 (19:44):
I guess, well, well, the geo thermal isn't.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
And that's the exciting thing.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
But this is the true base load. Yeah, it's and
the idea of that base load, of course, it provides
support for our investment. This is weird in renewables. So
the more base load we do sue, the more solo
and when we can do.
Speaker 4 (20:02):
Yeah, absolutely, yeah, And I think, oh.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
Do you interrupt me anytime, because you're the one with
the facts, and I'm just you know.
Speaker 4 (20:11):
I guess I was just going to add, is that
it's not a one or two things. It's you know,
we need we need a lot of different renewables to
build the right energy system, and we've got hydro and
sol and wind, solar and wind that are all very
susceptible to weather and that's where the batteries come in,
so you wouldn't. Yeah, as we've experienced, probably more recently
(20:32):
with the dry year, it caused us a few issues
with having hydro, so we need other options that can
come into the come into the system as well. But
they're you know, absolutely right. The planning that's happening with
hydro and duathma will absolutely help us.
Speaker 3 (20:49):
And Simon are not not in line here. But here's
here's another response to your text. It's a good point
you make, but I forget most of our large industrial
solar parks are going in on land that isn't necessarily.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
Just for sheep.
Speaker 3 (21:02):
I think CO five Park at such International Airport will
be our largest solar farm.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
It's a terrific do you sealand does actually realize because
we see the politicians, we sort of go blah blah blah.
I mean, how do we understand. I don't think I
understand how big our solar investment is already. I mean
if I knew everything that you guys know about what
we're doing with the electrification, would I sort of go wow?
Because it still feels to many people it's oh, you know,
(21:29):
oil and gas and diesels is fringe.
Speaker 3 (21:31):
I think you go, well in terms of the investment
that's actually happening right now, I think you'd go, oh
my goodness that this is an industry you want to
be monitoring and thinking about how you.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Can support it.
Speaker 3 (21:40):
And there are two problems we're solving here. One is
the volatility of whossale electricity prices gets a whole lot
of headlines, but it's not great for business, not great
for un employment.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
We want to.
Speaker 3 (21:51):
Reduce that volatility of whosil prices and extent we can
invest in things that are going to bring down the
hostale electricity prices. Here's some news. So can you have
a chat about what's happened in Australia this year?
Speaker 4 (22:05):
Oh yeah, so it's it's pretty amazing story over there.
They have they built something like was it two thousand
or so with rooftop solar is a big thing that
for them, they've built something like two thousand per day
for the last quarter the implemented roofstop solar. Not all
(22:26):
of those have batteries, but a lot.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
Of individual Australian.
Speaker 4 (22:29):
Individual Australians there's a lot of incentives in Australia for
them to build those, a lot of incentives for them,
for individuals to households to put batteries in, and there
is something like is it six hundred thousand?
Speaker 2 (22:45):
What is it? I've just trying to lost my Ye,
I've got.
Speaker 4 (22:48):
Six hundred thousand home batteries.
Speaker 3 (22:50):
That's what I was.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
I've got a question for you along that line. Somebody
says high a solar power system at home would be
around thirty thousand dollars. Am I better to invest thirty
thousand dollars in solar at home or in an electrification company?
Speaker 3 (23:05):
Yeh, that's really good question.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
I mean that's from many people. They think my way
of saying of that paying its way is I'll get
solar and it'll be great, as you might say, well,
and for a lot.
Speaker 3 (23:16):
Of people to have that choice is just a terrific thing,
and many people listening won't have that choice. Is you
can I invest thirty thousand dollars?
Speaker 2 (23:23):
Can I invest in my home?
Speaker 3 (23:27):
But what you're doing investing in solar at home is
very clearly increasing the choices you have in terms of
your resilience, of your access to power, your time of
use of power. And then maybe making an assessment that
this is actually a payback for you because your house
has a capacity to have solar on your roof and
(23:49):
might be a three to four year payback, which has
maybe higher higher certainty than investing in a portfolio. So
I think there's quite a few things that go into this,
but there's no doubt we are well past the tipping point,
well past the point for most people investing in solar
at home will have a positive payback.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
Well pass it to most. We passed it passed. We
are in a positive so you will have a positive
payback if you invest thirty the most. So if I
got solar on my roof, it would end up being
a positive financial equation rather than me just feeling good, and.
Speaker 3 (24:23):
We would say knit knit present value positive.
Speaker 4 (24:26):
Really yeah, I mean I can probably example, we had
solar on one of our properties and and a battery.
I think our electricity bill for the year was probably
around five or six hundred dollars.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
The whole year, for the whole year.
Speaker 4 (24:40):
So if you're if you're thinking about what you've paid,
and you were so.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
If you're paying four grand a year, what would the
average power I don't know what the average powerball would be.
Most people probably three to four one hundred bucks a month.
Speaker 4 (24:52):
I would say probably more like two to three hundred
people would be paying.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
And so it's two months and the rest of the
year free. And so these these low energy loans, you know,
I mean, that's a different thing we'd have to look
at with her.
Speaker 4 (25:02):
But yeah, and one I just wanted to add one
thing on what's coming through Australia with rooftop solo is
that it's changing when the peaks happen in their system.
It's making peaking cheaper, which is what costs us from
an electricity perspective. So individuals having solar on their homes
(25:23):
means that the whole system is cheaper for everyone else. Okay,
so you kind of benefit.
Speaker 3 (25:28):
Specifically, in the first quarter, Australian wholesale electricity prices were
twelve percent lower in the same quarter a year ago.
And this is put down to many publications. There's significant
investment not just in rooftop solar, in batteries at home,
but in over one hundred utility level battery energy storage systems.
They've really gone for it.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
I've got a caller, we'll go to a chuck. I'll
just ask you to hold on for set because I've
got a question around all this, how much of your
investment in this new world of electrification, battery storage and
all that, how much of it is dependent on government?
We've got them because today we've heard Winston Peters wants
to spend a billion dollars looking for new oil and
gas and we still need oil and gas. I mean,
(26:12):
look how we get our goods around the country. Help
me out, oh, help you out in this one.
Speaker 3 (26:18):
We're not doing this for climate change. We're doing it
because economics have arrived where electrification makes just a lot
of sense for many industries and for many households.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
And that's the whole point. That actually is what you
boiled it down to it. This is no longer we're
doing this because Chloe's my best mate or whatever. We're
doing this because investors understand that there is now money
to be made because this is the world we're living in.
This that's that's the core message.
Speaker 6 (26:45):
Isn't it.
Speaker 4 (26:46):
And businesses get to save money because electricity will become
cheaper so they can invest that into the business and
other things. Productivity increases, it becomes you know, it's quite
a key part of it.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
But how much does it rely on government well, because
for instance, in Australia, they've got incentive schemes I gather
through government or state government whatever for or rooftop solar.
I mean, how much of that is driven by policies
of a government that says we believe this is the future. Too.
Speaker 3 (27:12):
We're seeing private companies invest in renewables flat out now.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
We've seen the inflation of.
Speaker 3 (27:17):
Four big battery energy story systems in New Zealand, tour coming,
We've seen a large solar rays put in, and we're
seeing a huge amount of investment in your therm will
occur across five different web sites. I think we're at
the point now of it's just great that we can
think about electrification for New zeal going forward.
Speaker 4 (27:38):
And I think.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
Carry out now it's just gesturing too. Mind we've got
a call on him just checking hill Oltill after the
break and he will also carry I say.
Speaker 4 (27:47):
I think I think any business will tell you that
government policy certainty is really helpful when you're investing in
these things. But what Andrew is talking about is.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
That it doesn't matter in a way because there's enough
private sense to this.
Speaker 4 (27:59):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely, and then yeah, the demand is
starting to happen.
Speaker 3 (28:05):
Just to finish off, you can imagine that if we
do all these things, we will actually preserve for a
longer time frame our scarce guest resources, which are quite
scarce in New Zealand as it is. So it might
buy time. It might buy time for the discovery of
the next ten years of where our resources are. Because
that's what Winston said today isn't going to solve a
problem tomorrow the next day. It's a very very long
(28:27):
dated He hopes it.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
All election on lack of it is. We're going to
be back in just a moment, oh one hundred and
eighty ten eighty. We'll be back with Chuck, who's got
a question around Well, we'll find out after the break.
It is twenty one and a half minutes to six
News Talks EDB. Yes, welcome back to News Talks B.
This is smart Money. We've got a special smart money
really because we have two guests from Harbor Asset Management.
(28:51):
Andrew Bascin is the co chief CEO and the co
CEO should I say, and Sue Walker, who's the manager
response for a Responsible Investment, and we're talking about the
move and the change that's happening towards not just because
governments do or don't like it, but the private sector
and renewables and electrification and let's take a hem, we'll
(29:14):
go to a call first, Let's go to Chuck. Thanks
for holding check.
Speaker 5 (29:18):
Hi, Yes, I was going to ask him what they
thought about having nuclear power. Of course we'd have to
do something about luxon.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
What do you mean, has he ruled it out? Oh?
You mean, yeah, that's right, nuclear free? That's right. Okay,
But firstly, before we do check, do you realistically think
that nuclear is an option for New Zealand or do
you think what do you think?
Speaker 5 (29:44):
I think it is. It certainly should be considered in
cost it out because if the nuclear over in Australia,
the labor lot we're saying it was costs far, far,
far too much. But how do other countries manage to
use nuclear if it's far more expensive? France is nearly totally.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
Nu Yeah, okay, Andrew is going to chip in on
this one. Andrew, he's just flicking through some bits of
paper there.
Speaker 3 (30:17):
I think this is a really good point check because
we know that nuclear provided the backbone of the growth
and power in the nineteen seventies, nineteen eighties and some
countries the nineteen nineties terrific, and France, of course, is
that I've been leading European country in that regard. Germany's
turned off their nuclear I'm not sure there was a
terrific idea, but in France. In France, what we've seen
(30:39):
in the last five years is solar has absolutely taken
over from from nuclear in terms of all the new
power added.
Speaker 2 (30:48):
So much so soon.
Speaker 3 (30:49):
I think I'll be right here that on sunny days
and summer the price of power is negative now in France,
and are right in saying that.
Speaker 4 (30:55):
It's certainly happening in Europe. I'm not one hundred percent
sure about France, but seeing that in stain.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
Woll, Yeah, is that news to you? Chuck that while
they've because people do talk about France, I talk about France,
and now here we learning that the major investments.
Speaker 3 (31:09):
So the big thing check is now harnessing that daytime
solar with batteries, large industrial grid scale batteries, so you
can take the sunshine from the daytime and use that
daylight at nighttime. But I am interested in a couple
of technologies that probably won't be in my lifetime.
Speaker 2 (31:29):
Wednesday, but I think.
Speaker 3 (31:31):
Fusion is seriously something that will be quite intriguing, and
New Zealand has its own little company in that regard,
looking at that open star. Obviously, there are many many
fusion companies now breaking through with their first opportunity. And secondly,
in New Zealand, we're one of two or three countries
globally that are looking at super critical geothermal. And that's
(31:53):
something you should go do Google or copart or chat
chat super critical super critical geothermal, and they're probably only
three or four places on Earth that have this resource potential.
And it's it's not nuclear power, but it's damn near
close to it. I think we're talking about four thousand degrees.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
Of potential.
Speaker 3 (32:15):
Energy down there, so we do geo therminal at the moment,
I forget that, so it's probably five hundred degrees or something,
but supercritical.
Speaker 2 (32:21):
Right, Chuck. Actually, I've got a question for you won
your response to that, but also as an investor, because
you're a pragmatic guy. We've spoken for years now. Yeah,
and you're like to put money where it makes money.
Do you? What do you what's your response to or
thoughts about where you want to stick your dough when
it comes to electrification.
Speaker 5 (32:40):
Well, I've got it with the power companies. But talking
about these batteries that hasn't worked too well in Australia.
Hasn't it not well at all?
Speaker 2 (32:54):
What's happened in Australia.
Speaker 5 (32:56):
Oh, they just they just haven't got this system going,
a big battery thing. And what would happen if it
ever caught fire?
Speaker 2 (33:08):
Okay, what do we know about that? I mean, this
is a technical question. If you're across that one guys
were fire apart.
Speaker 4 (33:15):
Yeah, yeah, I mean I think there is you know,
there are some issues, but they built the battery parks
are built in such a way that the on top
of that fire pretty quickly, you know, so if what
it's not like, the whole park is you know, is
going to go up. Yeah, I mean there is fire risk,
but they know they're built with a lot of safety
(33:38):
measures in mind. And I'm interested in the things aren't
going well in Australia for batteries because they think the
third country in the world for deploying of batteries and
it's definitely having an impact on their electricity prices. Peaking,
you know, it's taking over from gas for peaking. So
(33:58):
I wasn't sure, not too sure what part of it
it's not going well?
Speaker 2 (34:04):
Well I watched, but would you I mean, I guess
for you. What do you want to hear that would
make you think? You know, I'm going to shift my
portfolio to have a bit more involved in the electrification
side of things.
Speaker 5 (34:20):
I've already got the powered companies and that already. But
what they should do if you're looking at energy, they
should look at what David Seymour thinks, not what Chris looks.
And because David Seymour is an electrical engineer, is that
before even into parliament?
Speaker 2 (34:41):
Yeah? Okay, no, good, good point. He hate good to
hear from your check. We have to take a break
now and we'll be back and just to take for
a few more comments. We might be able to actually speak,
we might be able to squ squeeze another caller, but
we'll see how we go. This is News Talks, he'd
b It's twelve minutes to six news Talk shid B
on Tim Beverridges is Smart Money with Andrew besk And
and Sue Walker from Harbor Asset Management. Time for one quick,
(35:05):
one more quick call Ben.
Speaker 6 (35:06):
Hello, you get it, guys, Yeah, look off it since
till nineteen, just prior to COVID and on the roof,
I don't have batteries to sold it, but I absolutely swear,
but it's shaved the power and a half. But what
I was quit ringing about is the people looking at
that plug and solar. The government announced them, and I
(35:30):
was looking for it for my mother who's in an apartment.
I've been talking to friends in France have it, and
they're actually dismantling. Who isn't chucking in the bin because
they said the government's just mandated that they have liability
insurance and the liability insurance is one hundred bucks a
year more than what the plug and Solo was saving
them about coos, So it's it's completely it's completely destroyed
(35:55):
market over there.
Speaker 2 (35:57):
Yeah, I don't know about what. You've got any comments
on that soon?
Speaker 4 (35:59):
No, I honestly I didn't know about that. I mean,
I've been saw that plug and Solo was something that
they're pushing for, which would be great if you're renting
or Yeah, obviously apartments is a good use. But no,
I didn't know about this. Okay, liability insurance. It sounds
like there's maybe some more improvement needed in technology there.
Speaker 2 (36:18):
Yeah before it. Hey, thanks for you court been Sorry,
we are running short time. I'll just quickly respond to
one text. Somebody said, Tim, yet again you just cut
your expert off as he was explaining the four thousand
degrees to your thermal thing, which was fascinating. When I
didn't cut him off, Andrew actually suggested that we should
chat GPT and you should look it up and google it.
What what's it called?
Speaker 4 (36:37):
Critical supercritical geo Thermal.
Speaker 2 (36:39):
Yeah, so he was. I think you passed that to
me and told me to go and chat gp T.
Speaker 3 (36:45):
It didn't you, Andrew, and you might get research article
published by Sue a little while ago and Zypo critical.
She's a pretty good and expert in house of it.
Speaker 2 (36:53):
Yeah, it's fast. Look, I just stuck it into chat GPT.
And even the facts that are unfurling what Iceland, Japan,
Italy and New Zealand, which which is considered one of
the world's best prospects because of high temperature gfilm fields
around the Central North Island exciting, which leads to the
question of all this in the whole scheme of things
when it comes to investment, renewables, batteries, solar electrification the
(37:16):
whole shaban. If people are listening to this and they think,
I don't want to get caught up in the hysteria
that's coming out of people going the straits of all
moves and all that sort of thing. How do people
access investments into this without feeling that they're falling for
the hype that people fell for for SpaceX. So how
do you invest in our whole discussion and go I
(37:36):
want to stick some money into this? Where do I go?
Speaker 3 (37:38):
Look, there's lots of global disruptive change. You know, we've
seen that obviously with AI. We've seen that earlier on
with these GLP one drugs that we've talked about. Electrification
has been like something going on for one hundred and
fifty years or at the point now where the economics
of electrification have continued to push very hard on renewables,
(37:59):
on batteries, And that's what Sue and I are saying.
So that whole chain of disruptive of opportunity and electrification,
it's not about one point of investment. And that's why
we think as investors we need to understand whether it's
the mining company that's producing the copper, whether it's the
(38:21):
grid manufacturer who's installing that copper in the aluminium where
it's the transformers at this end, right through to the
clever innovation in geothermal that's occurring in wind and solar.
The whole chain is very investible because my view would
be don't try and pick a winner. Yes, that would
be my view. Don't try and pick a winder. The
(38:42):
whole chain is likely to be very investable.
Speaker 2 (38:45):
The reason I mentioned it is because you're not here
selling anything for harbor asset management. You're not talking about
a fund you've got. You're simply talking about the whole
what's what we see happening. But you did what I
had to chat with you in the break. There are
there funds that actually do a good job of focusing
on this sort of investment. That is my question in
terms of the bigger picture of life.
Speaker 3 (39:05):
As soon as you invest in the New Zealand and
equity market or the New Zealand bond market, you've got
a lot of great companies, well managed that are continuing
to produce good profits and investing.
Speaker 2 (39:14):
New Zealand's got good companies.
Speaker 3 (39:15):
But globally there are infrastructure funds that are worthwhile having
a good look at it, that's the only thing you
want to invest in.
Speaker 2 (39:22):
But I'd be aware.
Speaker 3 (39:23):
I'll go right back to that initial comment that we
had regarding SpaceX that went off. You know, if you
really want to think about investing and one particular piece
of kit or technology, it's not a one day, two day,
one month, one quarter, one year investment. That is a
very long term investment.
Speaker 2 (39:39):
Okay, yeah, I just because I know that the New
Zealand things like I want to put some money this,
I've got ten thousand bucks, where do I put it?
Or something? But you would be giving the less exciting
answer of like, look, talk to you. I don't know,
look at your key, we say what they are doing.
Trust the broader picture of things.
Speaker 3 (39:57):
And I'd go back and have a look at this
as well. Is it suitable in my own house. I
could look and think about my electrification and it can
start small. That motormard you need to replace it with another,
a combustion engine. I could just be a new check one, right,
be sensible. I'm sorry, that is an investment.
Speaker 2 (40:15):
Okay, Hey, look we barely scratched the tip of the
iceberg where the calls rolling in at the end, and
of course I have to say sorry, times up. You
need to be earlier, Andrew soone, thanks so much for
coming in.
Speaker 4 (40:25):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (40:25):
Enjoy the rest of the evening thanks to my producer Lot.
If you've missed any of this conversation, I suggest you
can check out our podcast what Shall Be Up in
a few minutes basically for the whole show. Go and
listen to it all again. Some fantastic stuff on there,
and we'll look forward to your company next weekend. Catch
you soon.
Speaker 1 (40:52):
For more from the Weekend Collective, listen live to News
Talk Said Be weekends from three pm, or follow the
podcast on iHeartRadio.
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