June 7, 2026 • 41 mins
Earlier this year, a Christchurch businessman was found borrowing millions of dollars against his family trusts for his clothing company - racking up a $3-million dollar spend.
His sister prompted legal action, and two homes had to be sold as collateral.
But that brings up a question - what can we leave behind for our children and family that won't just be squandered or swindled?
Trusts and inheritance is a something most families will have to deal with when older-relatives pass, so how assured can we be that assets are protected?
Managing Director for New Zealand Family Trust Servicers, Janet Xuccoa joins Tim Beveridge for Smart Money...
LISTEN ABOVE
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Listen
Watch
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Still leaning on your.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
Very good afternoon.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
If you've just joined us, a welcome back, This is
the Weekend Collective. My guest has just said, it's a
I'm a middle aged man and Lira. That's a mammal
middle aged man and Lira listening to heavy metal music.
I'm taking all the police. She may actually be right.
I don't know if it's a thing. Is it Also
it's also sort of the music of my childhood, some
of this sort of stuff, because my brothers used to
(01:08):
listen to a lot of heavy metal and hard rock.
And it's funny. I heard a song the other day.
It was something that was you riye a heap or something.
I thought, why is that familiar? And it was a
memory that was about thirty or forty years old or
even longer. Anyway, Look, hello, welcome back. This is smart
money and today. As you know, as I say, I
(01:29):
like you to join us for the conversation rather than
just sort of saying, look, give us a call on
eight hundred and eighty ten eighty. But it's really part
of joining the conversation. If you've got something you want
to offer on the subject that we're talking about this hour,
or some advice that you're seeking from our guest. And
as I often, as I said last hour, and I'm
quite pleased I did because it worked really well because
people got on the blow out nice and early to
(01:51):
ask their questions. But this we're talking about trusts. And
there was a story earlier this year there was a
businessman and found borrowing millions of dollars against his family
trusts for his clothes company and racking up a three
million dollar spend. His sister prompted legal action and two
homes to had to be sold to cover the losses
(02:11):
and brings in the question you know about how you
leave money behind for our children and family and trying
to build in some sort of safeguard that it won't
be squandered or swindled. But there is also the question
around you know, in addition to you know, trust and inheritances,
which are you know, these are things that families have
(02:33):
to deal with all the time when people pass away,
But how do you assure that those those assets are protected?
But that ties into the conversation around how do you
know that the trustees who you have appointed, how can
you be assured that they're not going to run off
you with your money as well? I mean it doesn't
happen a lot, but I think I've seen some headlines
(02:55):
where it does happen. Anyway, we're going to talk trusts
and to do that, we are joined by Managing director
for New Zealand Family Trusts Services, and she's been on
the show is now, so she's a lot more relax
than she was first time she appeared. Janet Zakoa. Interesting
spelling by the way, x u c CooA. If you gurgling,
it is with us to get a Janet. How you going.
(03:15):
I'll just get you to drag pull the microphone closer
towards you. There, We're just slide it. There we go
and there there you are, and we'll turn your microphone
on and we're working. Hello.
Speaker 4 (03:23):
Hello urman, Hello listeners, how have you been? I've been fantastic.
Any better than there'll be two of me?
Speaker 2 (03:29):
That is is that really it's not often you meet
people there's a key we thing. It's like hey, it's
like I'm not bad, so well done. Now. Actually, the
trust things the question that I had to kick off
with around well, there were two sides. Was one was
around choosing your beneficiaries and how can you manage that
(03:50):
so they don't suddenly go, look, we're all going to
get together and get just cash up the trust. But
I reckon the first question that this is the top
of my mind, is how do people find and we
know that you have obviously you would say New Zealand
family trust services, you know, come to us. But how
do people feel that they are that their money and
(04:10):
their assets are safe with the trustees that they've chosen.
Because sometimes for many people they're setting up a trust,
it's not a language they speak, it's not an industry
they know, and they will go with various advice. But
are there assurances in place that would make them feel
like that the solicitor or their trustees is not going
to run off and go and live in a commune
(04:32):
in Bolivia?
Speaker 4 (04:33):
Good question. So I always think that when you're choosing
a trustee, an independent trustee, that you should check social
media in the very first instance, because that's certainly going
to tell you whether somebody's crooked or not. Also, what
really social media? I would always look up social media.
What do you do?
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Facebook? Instagram?
Speaker 4 (04:51):
Yeah, just type in their name and see what comes
up you'll get. If they're professional trustees, you're going to
get their qualifications, their experience, education, and of course people
are not shy now on posting online or the They
do have to be careful of defamation, but they're not
shy of posting online when things have gone wrong. And
if somebody has stolen vast consciences of money or been
(05:13):
doing things that aren't quite kosher, then that's probably going
to show up somewhere on social media.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
What is the actually is there a template for because
people often want to want to engage a personal trustee
somebody I mean when I say personal trustee, sorry, trustee
who they know? And then you would you talk about
independent trustees. So it's someone who's not connected through family
or relationships or anything. So tell us about just that
(05:41):
what the structure is all about.
Speaker 4 (05:43):
So in my mind, professional independent trustees are exactly that.
They are independent. They're not a family member, they're certainly
not a beneficiary, they're not your best friend, okay, And
professional trustee is somebody that really does deal with the
professional business or being a trustee administrative.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
So that's quite that's their job. Basically, this is what
they do for a living.
Speaker 4 (06:05):
In New Zealand, family trust services are dedicated independent professional trustees.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
Do most people go with a company like yours. People
who are professional trustees are how often is the sort
of I've got a song in my head from a
music or the family solicitor, But how often is the
family solicitor a trustee.
Speaker 4 (06:25):
Family sisten, accountants or often trustees. But because the business
of being a trustee is requiring more and more now
of professionals, and because they're very conscious of the legislation
and what is required of them and indeed what their
insurance policy requires, you will find that your lot of
the slicitors and accountants are stepping away from being independent.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
Is it just too is it too well?
Speaker 4 (06:50):
In the old days it was an adjunct service that
they provided to their clients, But now they've got to
ensure that all the right disclosures are made to the
ID each year, that they're checking off the financial accounts,
and that, as you alluded to earlier, they know what
the other trustees are doing and how they're handling matters,
holding annual trustee meetings. So the business is quite serious.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
And I guess if you're especially if your general practice
solicitor who's offering a family sort of law. It is
it's a big obligation which is not your regular gig.
So it's it's a bit like if you only cook
once a week, it's harder than if you've cooked three
or four times a week.
Speaker 4 (07:29):
And so I actually I quite like having the accountant,
the solicitor, and the independent professional trustee because you're all
keeping the checks and balance on each other. But also
I might add that with independent trustees, most independent professional trustees,
certain certain New Zealand family trust services, we have documents
(07:49):
which protect our clients. And in that regard, what I
mean is that when we take them on, we have
terms of engagement, We have terms recording the trusteeship, how
they will behave, how we will behave if they want
us to retire, what the retirement process will be, all
of those things.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
How does it work in between trustees? So if you're
an independent trustee and that's your gig, and you're the
one who knows how to make sure that all the
obligations under the law are met in terms of reports
and etc. How does that relationship work? Because if I
was a solicitor and I was a trustee, for someone
and you were the other trustee, I'd be like, well,
(08:29):
Janet's handling that. But can even those other trustees rely
on the independent trustee? I mean, how does that work?
Speaker 4 (08:36):
They can? But I think trusteeship is, you know, the
first word is trust, and so it's collaboration and trust.
And what in my world what we do is we
get together. We get together with the solistra, maybe the
accountant and the financial advisor if there was one in
the client. Sometimes the person has simply put their home
into the family trust and there is no accountant and
(08:56):
there is no solicitor that's required. And so we have
meetings online, we have meetings in person as to what
are we doing with this house? How long we're holding it?
Do we need to do new mortgage documents? Are we
going to sell it? Are we going to bow against
it and buy something else? Or bow against it and
possibly advance money to a business, as you also alluded to, would.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
You advise if I'd actually tell you what if ever
I won the lotto, I would keep it under the wraps.
But the one person who would know would be Janet,
because I'd be like, when need to set up a trust?
And I'd be along to talk to you about it,
and you'd put your business face on and get all
the paperwork out. But would you be advising me if
I came along to you to say, listen, you also
need a person you have, you know, to also be
(09:41):
a trustee alongside me. Is that something you like or
not necessarily?
Speaker 4 (09:45):
Well, it doesn't bother me if that person is there,
but not necessarily you have to ask what do they
add to the trust?
Speaker 2 (09:52):
Okay, So we don't really.
Speaker 4 (09:53):
Want to be in a situation where we're circulating trust
documents to five or six different parties to sign, especially
when those five or six parties have no idea what
they're signing. And a member trusteeship is personally.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
Like because I have a family member who's very diligent
on financial things and he would be all over that stuff,
and so that would be a good choice to go
alongside you because he would be a good partner for you.
Speaker 4 (10:17):
But he also has to remember, he has to remember
there's something goes wrong on that trust and there's a loss.
As a trustee, he's personally liable.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
So what happens if you I mean, okay, let's not
do it this way, because I don't want to put
you in this role. But say if you are a
trustee with Bob, and Bob is someone's uncle or brother,
and Bob runs off with the money. I don't know
how they would do that when there are two trustees.
But anyway, are you liable for Bob? No?
Speaker 4 (10:48):
No, I wouldn't be. But let's say that the trust
Let's say the trust bought a house, everybody lived in it,
and then the trust sold the house and the new
purchaser comes back to the trustees six months later and says,
this thing leaks like a sieve and you never told
me about it and it wasn't disclosed. Now, all trustees
(11:08):
have got a problem like unlike the family friend yeah okay,
or the family member who's just who's very good with
financial affairs, who's decided to be your trustee, he won't
have an insurance policy, he won't have lawyers around him.
But New Zealand Family Trust Services does. So we get
to handle that in the way that is.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
Gosh, it really has changed a lot, hasn't it. I mean,
I'm remembering because we've had a few conversations.
Speaker 4 (11:34):
Now, But you've done this at law school.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
This was ah, I mean, I did the law around
trusts from a legal point of view, and just I
mean just introducing me to what the concept of a
trust was, which is a trust, fuy relationships, the fiduciary relationship,
but also the you know, this is the nature of
what trustees are and what a trust is, and the
misunderstandings people have. It's like, I've got a trust, but
(11:58):
I'm just going to go dip into that.
Speaker 4 (11:59):
It's like, ah.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
No, it's not.
Speaker 4 (12:04):
That's is that one of the key Well, a lot
of people do think that there's trust. Yes, they have
a trust, but the assets really belong to them and
they'll do whatever they like, and they can come they
can come under a bit of heat. Then, for example,
if you have a trust and you've got a house
in it, and let's say you've got I don't know,
(12:25):
a couple hundred thousand in the bank, okay, in the
trust bank account, and you come to me and you
say to me, I want to take out fifty thousand
dollars and go and spend it all the casino. Then,
as your professional trustee, my answer is going to be
on so we can't do that. Okay, That's that's not
a very sensible investment for the trust to be making.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
Okay, actually, just to clarify for me and anyone who's
curious listening, of course, So because I remember when company law,
when you set up a company, the company is a person.
Is there a person created with the trust or it's
simply the relationship and the trustees.
Speaker 4 (13:01):
Yes, it's a relationship. A trust legally at law does
not exist. It's not like it's not it's not like
a company where it's a where it's a corporate self.
But what the person that sets up the trust is
called the settler. Then you have the trustees and they
are empowered to look after all the assets of the
trust for the beneficiaries. And then you have the appoint or,
who is frequently the settler, I might add, who usually
(13:24):
appoints the beneficiaries and the trustees and avertires them and
so forth, although trustees can do those jobs as well.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
Right, gosh, it is fascinating them just in terms of
the area of law as well. If you're ever going
to trust study some area of law which you think
is just going to be on its own fascinating, then
I'd just say go and study equity at law school,
which is the law of trusts. By the way, I
think they still call it equity.
Speaker 4 (13:47):
Know they do equity in tax. So those are my
two favorite subjects.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
Okay, you're not so excited about the tech side of things.
But anyway, hey, look, let's take some calls IA eight
one hundred and eighty ten eighty and remember, if you
have some questions for Janet Zukoa, then please give us
a call on that numb or you can text on
nine two nine two and don't leave it to tental sex. Okay,
So Keith's got the right idea A Keith, good.
Speaker 5 (14:12):
Day, Tyler. So my question is my wife and I
we are both in our seventies, two adult children, one married,
one divorced, with two grandchildren. How do we set up
a trust?
Speaker 2 (14:31):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (14:31):
Okay, So in the first instance, Keith, is it how
do you set up a trust? Is it to set
up a trust for you and your heart?
Speaker 5 (14:41):
How is it trust set up for their mess?
Speaker 2 (14:44):
Can can I ask a question? Is it also a
why do you know your why you want to set
up a trust? Yes?
Speaker 5 (14:50):
So in the event we become we become ill. My
understanding is that if you own property, then you have
to pay for medical care. Is that good?
Speaker 3 (15:06):
M ah?
Speaker 2 (15:08):
I think you might be referring to if you have
to go into a into retirement, into hospital level care
in a rest home and they they will make you
pay for that until you've whittled down to a couple
hundred thousand. Is that what you Is that the reference
you're making?
Speaker 5 (15:25):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (15:25):
Yes, okay, So how do.
Speaker 5 (15:27):
You protect you I'm not talking avoidance, Well you're talking
how do we protect it?
Speaker 3 (15:34):
Well?
Speaker 2 (15:34):
Yeah, I mean it's a semantic difference, isn't it. But
you basically don't want the stake to look at you
and go, well, hang on a minute. You've got all
this money here, Your your costs are coming out of
this money of yours. That is a big question you've asked,
believe it or not, Keith, So janet over to you.
Speaker 4 (15:50):
That is a massive minefield. So it used to be
that you would set up trust for the purposes of
ultimately avoiding west home subsidies, the care fees you know
that you might have to pay if you had too
much in asset value. No longer is that possible. So
there are three tests that are completed before you before
(16:13):
you get a sniffet a dollar from the government, in
regards to a subsidy, and I would say that the
earlier the trusts are set up the better. There are
rules where you are allowed to put your money in,
do all of your gifting so much per year, five
years prior to actually entering into a rest home. But
(16:34):
you can't set up a trust later on in life
in New Zealand, put your assets in and then say
I have no assets now and government please pay for
my rest home care. Nor can you set up a
trust for your children, divest yourself of all of your
assets and then go into rest from care and expect
(16:54):
government to pay a subsidy for that. I suppose if
there is very little value then possibly they might, but
they will of course say that you have divested yourself
of wealth and assets and they simply won't pay. I
think it is I don't know the exact amount now,
but I've got a feeling that it might be two
hundred and thirty one hundred and four.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
I think for a couple, it's one hundred and ninety
for an individual or something two hundred I can't remember,
but there you might even know that number, Keith. But
is there used to be a test for trusts where
you couldn't give more than twenty seven thousand a year
or something like that, which is gone, but they it
seems to be the test that they still apply when they're.
Speaker 4 (17:34):
Looking back, Yes to do so. It used to be
that you could put your assets into trust, get an
IOU in the form of acknowledgment of debt, and then
you would progressively forgive twenty seven thousand dollars per person
who this debt was o to, and so you'd whistle
down the debt that way. Then, of course there was
the regime was changed and gifting duty was abolished, and
(17:59):
Ministry of Social Warfare introduced rules, and now you are
allowed to forgive twenty seven thousand per couple. If you're
six percent, of course it's twenty seven. But if it's
a couple, it's thirteen and a half thousand. So it's
unlikely later on in life that you are going to
have enough years ahead of you at thirteen and a
half thousand forgiveness of debt per ANAM to get to
(18:22):
all of your gifting program in time.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
So I mean, so if you're I mean, I guess
if Keith was in his fifties setting up a trust
now would be a much more formidable entity to deal
with for the government as opposed to if you're in
your I don't know what age you are, Keith, but.
Speaker 4 (18:40):
Seventies okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. So we don't really see
people later on in life setting up trust simply to
avoid rest home duties with a view to trying to
get a subsidie.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
That's bad news, isn't it, Keith. That's not the answer
you have.
Speaker 5 (18:56):
It's not bad news. So the best option would be
for us to sell the house to the kids for
doll it.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
No, they'll look through that as well, look through that
as well.
Speaker 4 (19:08):
That is divesting yourself of well the side from which
you would need to be at market transfer price. But
what I would say is this, there's not a large
proportion of New Zealanders that goes into rest home care.
And what we are finding is that a lot of
people these days are saying, well, we do want some
(19:28):
care in our old age. Why don't we combine resources
with our younger our children and the younger generation and
maybe put two homes on a site that sort of thing.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
Have you got another reason you might want to use
a trust anyway, Keith? In terms of having some sort
of instrument set up by way you.
Speaker 6 (19:48):
No, no, not really.
Speaker 5 (19:50):
It was just a conversation my wife and I had
if we were to go into a rest on what happens, Okay.
Speaker 4 (19:59):
Definitely what you what you might find is if you
go to your accountants or your lawyers, they will do
a notional calculat for you and they will show you
whether it's worthwhile or not. But on the facts that
you've given us today, it doesn't sound to me like
it would be a sensible idea to be setting.
Speaker 5 (20:14):
Up not feasible.
Speaker 4 (20:15):
But well, I'm not saying, with hand on my heart,
absolutely categorically not feasible. I'm saying you could exploit it
with your lawyers and accountants, but it's not really a
reason that we would set up a trust for a
gentleman in his seventies simply to avoids thanes.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
Okay, thank you, Janet, Actually close enough, Thanks Keith Gosh. Actually,
I'm just on the political front. Isn't it funny that
you know they have arguments around wealth taxes and all
those sorts of things. But if you need to health,
if you need to go onto hospital level rest time care,
(20:54):
they'll take just about every cent you've had the government before,
they'll pay for anything for you. And it's a funny
little thing story that doesn't really get the coverage in
terms of how your wealth can get eaten to it.
Speaker 4 (21:05):
Guess it can get decimated later on in life.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
Absolutely, And look, the way to protect some wealth for
your kids in the case that you have to go
into rest time care is just to make sure you've
got a hell of a lot of money so there's
still something left overben I mean pretty much, that's it. Anyway, Oh,
we've got to take a break. What am I doing?
It's twenty eight past five O eight one hundred and
eighty ten eighties the number we'll be back in just
(21:29):
to tick. Are you worried about funding a comfortable retirement?
One interesting solution is to invest in an income fund
like the Harbor Income Fund from the experts at Harbor
Asset Management. It works beholding a mix of interest paying
securities and shares that have been designed to generate a
steady and sustainable income no matter the market. The Harbor
(21:50):
Income Fund is actively managed and currently it pays a
distribution of four point five percent per annum after fees
and tax, paid out in monthly installments. You also get
the peace of mind knowing your future is in the
hands of morning Stars Overall Fund Manager of the Year
twenty twenty five and twenty twenty six. To find out
more about Harbor's income fund, head to Harbor Asset dot
(22:12):
co dot NZ or speak with your financial advisor. This
is not intended as personalized advice. The product Disclosure Statement
for Harbor Investment Funds issued by Harbor Asset Management is
available at harbor Asset dot Co dot ENZ. And again
that morning Star Award wilded to Harbor Asset Management for
overa Fund Manager of the Year in twenty twenty five
(22:34):
and twenty twenty six.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
Insightful, entertaining and always not boys. Tim Beveridge on the
weekend Collective News TALKSB News TALKSB.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
We're talking trusts with Janet Zcoa who's now become a
bit of a regular on our show with us and
we love having her on. She's the managing director for
New Zealand Family Trust Services. And let's go to Peter. Hello.
Peter's Lifters radio on and it's on an eight second delay,
so he's suddenly going to go, oh, he's talking to me,
(23:05):
And here he is three two one Peter.
Speaker 3 (23:08):
Hello, yep, I've got yeah, yeah, I've got a slave problem.
I've had it going on for the last seven eight years.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
And before we continue, can you have turned your radio down,
haven't you?
Speaker 3 (23:27):
I've got it.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
Well, no, I need to turn it off. It comes
back to us. Oh okay, well done, okay, good eye,
right where you go? You've got you with Janets Occurr
and me.
Speaker 3 (23:39):
Yeah, my partner died or was in two thousand and nine.
But I've had trouble with the have family's kids and
they what they've gone and done is while I was
getting counter treatment, they broke into my house, stole her well,
(24:02):
the forged it. They so all the house from underneath me,
and I'm trying to fipe them to get it back.
Speaker 4 (24:12):
Now.
Speaker 3 (24:13):
I haven't got the internet, so I know they've gone
onto the internet about it. I've seen my lawyers down here,
but they just walk away from it.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
That's strange. Do you think they broke it and stole it?
Shouldn't you go go one to the police?
Speaker 3 (24:29):
Comportunately, that's another short point. The police aren't interested. They
just staying around and said, oh, it's a civil matter.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
Oh hell, this is this looks like a quite a
difficult one to untangle. Iman Janet, you got any starting
point with us.
Speaker 4 (24:45):
Look, I don't think Peter, that this is really a
question for me. I think that if somebody has broken
into your house and done these things, first it would
definitely be a police complaint, and you're well with your
rights to make a complaint if that is indeed what's happened.
And secondly you would be talking to your lawyers.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
Yeah, okay, I think that's a really difficult one for
us to dig into, Peter, because it's that it involves
a lot of interpretation of facts and things. But if
what's going on is if you think some lawyers have
been behaving in appropriately with a fraudulent document, you need
to go to the law society. You probably need to
(25:24):
try and get some legal advice yourself, as much as
that's not the cheapest thing in the world. And if
you really do think that the police have been doing
their jobs on it, you can actually make a complain
about that as well to the IPCA if you really
if that's something, But it's unfortunately we can't really help
you without beyond ticking those boxes. But obviously, sorry, we
(25:46):
have to leave you there there, Peter. I'm afraid, but
thanks for your call. It's been loaded with all sorts
of disputes in facts, isn't it. So anyway, look, I
tell you what, let's go to Sorry, we couldn't help Peter.
Always feel bad and we can't really help people, but
it's just too contentious, all that stuff to sort out
on radio. Catherine, Hello, you need to turn off your
(26:08):
speaker phone. Okay, I'm going to put you back to
my producer and we're going to see if we can
sort that out because we've had this problem before. I
think here's a few texts, so we look at some
text Janet, just to while I have a couple finish
my cup of tea here. Somebody says, and we've been
(26:29):
talking about a range of people who can act us
to trustees, accountant, lawyer, independent trustee. Sounds like a lot
of fees, says my texter.
Speaker 4 (26:37):
Oh, and I agree. It can indeed be a lot
of fees and you should clear that. You should just
clear that immediately before you even sign with any independent
professional trustee. New Zealand Family Trust Services offers officer fee service.
Where we are six hundred and ninety five dollars a
year and that includes us holding and documenting the annual
trustee meeting minutes.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
But if we as cheap as chips, it's we do a.
Speaker 4 (27:01):
Lot of this work and we know that we're we
know that we're reasonably.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
Very that's the that's the ongoing trustee fees. What's the
cost to set up a trust?
Speaker 4 (27:09):
So to set up a trust is about two and
a half to three and a half thousand, It depends
how complicated it is. And then of course for us
at New Zealand Family Trust Services, if we are having
to do work for a client, then we do charge
on an hourly basis.
Speaker 2 (27:25):
But when you that's if the trust is having to
deal with our sets and buying and selling.
Speaker 4 (27:30):
Buying and selling and doing counter things. So you often
find that the fees will you know, you set the
trust up, you put the assets and the trust and
then for many trustees, they do they do nothing else.
They don't buy and sell continuously. They hold it for
three or four or more years and their only fee
(27:51):
is six nine five a year and sometimes that's even
tax deductible.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
Okay, right, somebody says the important thing is don't give
your trustee company I don't understand. I think we're blending
a couple of things anyway, pusinesses and the important things.
Don't give your trustee company sole signing rights for withdrawing
money that was around avoiding getting ripped off by a
particular trustee. I guess we would.
Speaker 4 (28:16):
We would never want soul rights. We like to work
with our co trustees, so it's unanimous decision making all
the time.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
So how does that work if people will engage you
guys to do something and that there's another trustee, so.
Speaker 4 (28:28):
People come in and that Well, in fact, I'll have
a client on Monday. He's going to want to open
a bank account and put some money into that bank account.
So we as the trustees will sign all the bank forms.
But I certainly as a trustee, will not have access
to that bank account. I don't want access to the
bank account. It's the trust bank account. The trustees will,
(28:50):
you know, they'll put money in. They may take money
out financial account to sort out what the balances are
at the end of the year, and then we'll document.
Speaker 2 (28:59):
Okay, let's have a look at some more we've got.
I shall tell you what, Well, distill a few more texts,
but will take a break now to give you an
opportunity to jump ahead of the queue. Oh, eight hundred
and eighty ten eighty is the number, and it's a
twenty one and a half minutes to six News Talk
sa'd B News Talks. They'd be with Tim Beverage. Look,
(29:19):
we're talking trust with Janet Zuca from New Zealand Family
Trust Services and will hang on a second. There we go, Catherine, Hello, yes, hi, Hi, Hello.
Speaker 7 (29:30):
Hello, thinky I just wondering is there a minimum amount
in the just set up a trust?
Speaker 4 (29:35):
I don't believe so, I don't believe that there's a
minimum amount for me. It would be what do you
want to protect? You wouldn't set up a trust nearly, willy,
But what would you want to protect and why would
you want to do it? That's that's my first starting
point with clients.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
You can put anything in a trust. You can put
your pet rock in a trust. It might not be
worth two and a half thousand dollars set up for you.
Speaker 4 (29:59):
Generally only put appreciating assets in trust.
Speaker 7 (30:02):
No, right, there's money in the bank like forty thousand.
But at the moment I'm working. But when I retire,
if I'm in my seventies.
Speaker 4 (30:16):
So what why would you want the trust? Why do
you want the trust? Katherine?
Speaker 7 (30:22):
I just wanted to know if if the money was
in the trust, could I still claim an accommodation benefit
from wins or would they take that into account?
Speaker 4 (30:31):
They would definitely take that into account, Wednesday. All moneys
into account, all moneies that you have, all moneies that
you receive, especially as distributions from trusts.
Speaker 7 (30:43):
Right, thanks for that.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
Well you save yourself a bit of you know, a
lot of energy and worry about it. It's just the
way it is. Yeah, thanks Catherine, exactly, Thank you. Actually,
would people ever put something that's of extreme sentimental value
into a trust? That might be important? It doesn't actually
have it doesn't have necessary financial value, but something where
some it is like I don't know, I don't know
why you would put in it, but you don't want
(31:09):
particular people. You want it to be preserved for some
future sort of.
Speaker 4 (31:14):
It could be preserved for future generations.
Speaker 2 (31:17):
Yeah, yeah, just wondering about that. Actually, it's funny, what's
the what's the saying there's two there's only two things
certain in life, and that's death and taxes or something. Absolutely,
I sort of think there's a third death taxes and
winds looking through any trust. You might have said it
it's almost you know, like that, doesn't it.
Speaker 4 (31:37):
Well, Winds will examine. They will examine your affairs, including
trust affairs.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
Okay, what is the process is we'll get through some
correspondence here. What's the process to dissolve to trusts? Husband
and wife trusts, the homers and trust There are no
money and the trusts originally set up to protect our
home due to professional husband's occupational risk retired, now not
sure we need them, hence considering dissolving them. Thanks Judy.
Speaker 4 (32:03):
Well, there's a process that will be probably found in
your deed trust to start with, so that will that
will lead you through how you will close the trust down.
And usually the assets are distributed and all the liability
to pay it off, and then we change the vesting
date and then we wind the trust up. But if
that's not sitting in the deed of trust provisions, then
(32:25):
we turn our mind to the trusts at twenty nineteen,
and there is a process there as well.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
You can actually fun of it. By the way, when
people hear the name of an active legislation, piece of
legislation like the Trusts Act two thousand and nineteen. They
are look, they can sound quite legal, but often you
can actually read them too because.
Speaker 3 (32:47):
The law is it.
Speaker 4 (32:48):
Well, they've written this in what I think is fairly
understandable for the lay person.
Speaker 2 (32:54):
Absolutely, yeah, I've just found it, because I mean I've
obviously studied legislation at law school and things, but I
found that there's been a few acts I've looked at
in the last few months and you go, actually, that's
I don't know why doesn't go straight to the act,
because they're instead of reading a press release and something else,
you just read what the acts is and said, look,
here's an exception to that.
Speaker 4 (33:11):
Well, when they rewrote the old Trustee Act, that was
one of their objectives was to write English and to
write the legislation and plain English a little bit like
the Company's Act.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
How long, just out of curiosity, how many This sounds
like such a silly question, but other people might be curious.
How long is the average trust deed? How detailed are
how many pages.
Speaker 3 (33:34):
Most of it?
Speaker 2 (33:34):
I'm just kind of are they generally quite long? Because
there are so many boxes to tech as well.
Speaker 4 (33:39):
Most of the trusteeds that I read are somewhere between
twenty and thirty pages long, and I do read them
because frequently you will find a clause at the end
of the deed of trusts which says, all of those
things can be done. However you have to give you know,
the settler thirty days written notice and obtain their permission
for all the beneficiaries. That sort of thing. So you
(34:01):
read the whole of the trusteed before you attempt to
do anything. You don't just read.
Speaker 2 (34:05):
That's actually not the case of reading the small print.
It's just a case of reading all the print.
Speaker 4 (34:08):
Or the print, Yeah, read it all so you know
what you're dealing with.
Speaker 2 (34:11):
High Team. My parents set up a trust thirty years
ago to protect the assets for the family in case
that you move into rest time. So thirty years that's interesting.
Have the rules changed on those trusts or are they
the same as when they're created? It thinks heaps. It's
from Kathy, So that's.
Speaker 4 (34:26):
About That's about grandfather and legislation, and I think that
caller is getting it. So, yes, indeed, the rules have
changed from thirty years ago. Legislation has changed, Ministers social
welfare have changed their rules. There's been numerous court cases
in the last thirty odd years. However, when your parents
moved the assets in, they would have either sold them
(34:47):
or gifted them, and if they sold them they did
some deeds of forgiveness of debt. So what WINS will
want to look at the Minister Social Welfare wants to
look at if they're considering rest hom subsidy is when
those assets will moved in, how the trust has been run,
what gifting has been done in what amounts and when.
Speaker 2 (35:08):
Gosh, so even thirty years ago, what's I mean, what's
the case law generally delivered in terms of how much
WINS can look at and a trust that's thirty years.
Speaker 4 (35:20):
Old, well apparently they can look forevermore.
Speaker 2 (35:24):
Bloody hell, criky. You don't worry about the wealth tax people.
If you need to go into health, if you need
to go into the old rest home hospital care, that's
how the government gets its money back, although it's obviously
spending it on your care, so no one's really winning.
I think the other thing is if you can possibly
avoid it, just stay nice and healthy for as long
as possible.
Speaker 4 (35:43):
And yeah, well, also when you consider the cost of
west Ham care today is somewhere between I don't know,
twelve and fifteen hundred. Isn't it a week that does
pay for an awful lot of home care?
Speaker 2 (35:55):
Yeah? Yes, indeed, oh eight hundred. Have we got time
for more? Cause we'll see, we've got to take a
quick break one call holding holding there, so we'll we'll
just take a break down and come back and just
the tickets. Eleven and a half minutes to six News
Talk set B. We've got time for one last caller. Hey,
by the way, thank you for one for listening, but
also for your text and everything. I know we haven't
(36:16):
been able to get through everything, but we do do
our best. I can see some calls coming in with
about six months. We've only got about three or four
minutes to go, which is a little note to Craig,
who is our last call at gooda Craig, how are
you good?
Speaker 6 (36:28):
Thank you? Hey, look, thank you firstly for the conversation day.
It's always very interesting to sort of understand different perspectives
on things. But question I've got if you create a trust,
does that make it easier, like if you're helping, like
we have a son who's looking at buying and purchasing
(36:50):
his first property and we have a freehold property with
heats of equity. It is creating a trust a helpful
way of getting them into a property.
Speaker 5 (37:00):
Or.
Speaker 4 (37:02):
Like creating a touch to them, adding a trust for.
Speaker 6 (37:05):
You, creating a trust between the between my wife, myself
and him.
Speaker 4 (37:13):
Get you couldn't do it that way or your trust
if you've got a trust, could lend money to him
or to his trust.
Speaker 2 (37:22):
Is there an advantage in having set up a trust?
Speaker 6 (37:26):
And yeah, that's what I'm thinking. So so like it's
not so much having a lot of cash but a
lot of equity.
Speaker 4 (37:32):
Well you could have proportional share shares, you know, and
that so it is a trust. But behind all of
that we mark it out very clearly that you know,
partition that trusts out as and who's got what in
the trust? Thirty Oh?
Speaker 2 (37:49):
Is it also protecting the ownership? I if you put
some money in protecting your your share of the assets
and what you're adding to your kids to help get it.
Speaker 6 (37:58):
What I'm sort of more looking at, is that a
helpful way to get a bank loan for a young
person who's looking at purchasing a first property.
Speaker 4 (38:06):
Well, I think that banks what they ultimately want is
they want to know that the money that they lend
they're going to get back, so they don't mind whether
the child buys it in their personal name, whether a
guarantee from the parents or a guarantee from the parents trustees.
Speaker 2 (38:24):
I think behind that is also the banks still want
to know exactly how the property is being funded, and
you don't want you don't want to try and sort
of create any instruments to conceal that because they want
to know.
Speaker 4 (38:37):
They will know where the money comes from there to
see evidence of that, but they ultimately want to know
that they're going to get repaid. So well, setting up
a trust with your son make it any easier for
funding to be forthcoming. Not necessarily, but I do think
that it goes a long way when they can see
that parents have got good equity and they are willing
(38:59):
to guarantee loans and saying that. I always like those
guarantees limited, and I'm verptent about that. When parents are
doing that, the bank of Mum and Dad doesn't want
to become the default garant all and it all turns
to custard and then the Bank of Mum and Dads
wiped out. So we're very careful about it.
Speaker 6 (39:15):
Okay, thank you, I really appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (39:18):
That's yeah, very you have a family trust services to
if you're curious there, Craig, I've got a quick one.
I'm not sure if've got time going a minute a half,
I'm going to sprint through it. It's a very quick question.
Can a trust be set up to protect inherited money
from a partner? And I'm going to add the first
thing is, and if you get inherited money, if you
bang it in your joint account, that's it days over.
Speaker 4 (39:37):
So in the very first instance, the answer is yes. However,
if you intermingle it, and that means that you use
the money for relationship purposes, then it loses its color,
and as a consequence, it can it can no longer
necessarily be deemed separate property and therefore inheritance only.
Speaker 2 (39:54):
So the first thing is don't stick the money into
your shared account, because that's its game over.
Speaker 4 (39:59):
Or if you are going to do that, you make
sure you've got plenty of legal documentation with good legal
advice before you before you move. One single pesto.
Speaker 2 (40:10):
Or peso for you anything else A great pesto. Hey, Janet, look,
we really appreciate you coming on the show. I can
tell from the number of questions that come in and look,
I know we can't help everyone, but hopefully there's been
something that's helped set shed some light on your own people.
Speaker 4 (40:32):
Question mean email me, email me at Janet at nz
ft S dot co dot Enzi and I will try
and help questions.
Speaker 2 (40:39):
Okay, there you go. Well the well, okay, you might.
It'll be interesting to see whether you suddenly go maybe.
Speaker 4 (40:46):
I usually doing it on Monday, and there's quite a
few questions and the sticking answers, so.
Speaker 2 (40:51):
That's a great part of it. Thanks for joining us.
Great to see you. Look Sunday at six is next.
Thank you for listening. You're going to check any of
the hours out and iHeartRadio News Talks b website, and
also thanks to my producers Isaiah. Great job, mate, and
we'll look forward to company next weekend. This is news
Talk ZIB Weekend Collective shof an hour.
Speaker 1 (41:22):
For more from the Weekend Collective, listen live to news
Talk ZIB weekends from three pm or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Still leaning on your.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
Very good afternoon.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
If you've just joined us, a welcome back, This is
the Weekend Collective. My guest has just said, it's a
I'm a middle aged man and Lira. That's a mammal
middle aged man and Lira listening to heavy metal music.
I'm taking all the police. She may actually be right.
I don't know if it's a thing. Is it Also
it's also sort of the music of my childhood, some
of this sort of stuff, because my brothers used to
(01:08):
listen to a lot of heavy metal and hard rock.
And it's funny. I heard a song the other day.
It was something that was you riye a heap or something.
I thought, why is that familiar? And it was a
memory that was about thirty or forty years old or
even longer. Anyway, Look, hello, welcome back. This is smart
money and today. As you know, as I say, I
(01:29):
like you to join us for the conversation rather than
just sort of saying, look, give us a call on
eight hundred and eighty ten eighty. But it's really part
of joining the conversation. If you've got something you want
to offer on the subject that we're talking about this hour,
or some advice that you're seeking from our guest. And
as I often, as I said last hour, and I'm
quite pleased I did because it worked really well because
people got on the blow out nice and early to
(01:51):
ask their questions. But this we're talking about trusts. And
there was a story earlier this year there was a
businessman and found borrowing millions of dollars against his family
trusts for his clothes company and racking up a three
million dollar spend. His sister prompted legal action and two
homes to had to be sold to cover the losses
(02:11):
and brings in the question you know about how you
leave money behind for our children and family and trying
to build in some sort of safeguard that it won't
be squandered or swindled. But there is also the question
around you know, in addition to you know, trust and inheritances,
which are you know, these are things that families have
(02:33):
to deal with all the time when people pass away,
But how do you assure that those those assets are protected?
But that ties into the conversation around how do you
know that the trustees who you have appointed, how can
you be assured that they're not going to run off
you with your money as well? I mean it doesn't
happen a lot, but I think I've seen some headlines
(02:55):
where it does happen. Anyway, we're going to talk trusts
and to do that, we are joined by Managing director
for New Zealand Family Trusts Services, and she's been on
the show is now, so she's a lot more relax
than she was first time she appeared. Janet Zakoa. Interesting
spelling by the way, x u c CooA. If you gurgling,
it is with us to get a Janet. How you going.
(03:15):
I'll just get you to drag pull the microphone closer
towards you. There, We're just slide it. There we go
and there there you are, and we'll turn your microphone
on and we're working. Hello.
Speaker 4 (03:23):
Hello urman, Hello listeners, how have you been? I've been fantastic.
Any better than there'll be two of me?
Speaker 2 (03:29):
That is is that really it's not often you meet
people there's a key we thing. It's like hey, it's
like I'm not bad, so well done. Now. Actually, the
trust things the question that I had to kick off
with around well, there were two sides. Was one was
around choosing your beneficiaries and how can you manage that
(03:50):
so they don't suddenly go, look, we're all going to
get together and get just cash up the trust. But
I reckon the first question that this is the top
of my mind, is how do people find and we
know that you have obviously you would say New Zealand
family trust services, you know, come to us. But how
do people feel that they are that their money and
(04:10):
their assets are safe with the trustees that they've chosen.
Because sometimes for many people they're setting up a trust,
it's not a language they speak, it's not an industry
they know, and they will go with various advice. But
are there assurances in place that would make them feel
like that the solicitor or their trustees is not going
to run off and go and live in a commune
(04:32):
in Bolivia?
Speaker 4 (04:33):
Good question. So I always think that when you're choosing
a trustee, an independent trustee, that you should check social
media in the very first instance, because that's certainly going
to tell you whether somebody's crooked or not. Also, what
really social media? I would always look up social media.
What do you do?
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Facebook? Instagram?
Speaker 4 (04:51):
Yeah, just type in their name and see what comes
up you'll get. If they're professional trustees, you're going to
get their qualifications, their experience, education, and of course people
are not shy now on posting online or the They
do have to be careful of defamation, but they're not
shy of posting online when things have gone wrong. And
if somebody has stolen vast consciences of money or been
(05:13):
doing things that aren't quite kosher, then that's probably going
to show up somewhere on social media.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
What is the actually is there a template for because
people often want to want to engage a personal trustee
somebody I mean when I say personal trustee, sorry, trustee
who they know? And then you would you talk about
independent trustees. So it's someone who's not connected through family
or relationships or anything. So tell us about just that
(05:41):
what the structure is all about.
Speaker 4 (05:43):
So in my mind, professional independent trustees are exactly that.
They are independent. They're not a family member, they're certainly
not a beneficiary, they're not your best friend, okay, And
professional trustee is somebody that really does deal with the
professional business or being a trustee administrative.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
So that's quite that's their job. Basically, this is what
they do for a living.
Speaker 4 (06:05):
In New Zealand, family trust services are dedicated independent professional trustees.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
Do most people go with a company like yours. People
who are professional trustees are how often is the sort
of I've got a song in my head from a
music or the family solicitor, But how often is the
family solicitor a trustee.
Speaker 4 (06:25):
Family sisten, accountants or often trustees. But because the business
of being a trustee is requiring more and more now
of professionals, and because they're very conscious of the legislation
and what is required of them and indeed what their
insurance policy requires, you will find that your lot of
the slicitors and accountants are stepping away from being independent.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
Is it just too is it too well?
Speaker 4 (06:50):
In the old days it was an adjunct service that
they provided to their clients, But now they've got to
ensure that all the right disclosures are made to the
ID each year, that they're checking off the financial accounts,
and that, as you alluded to earlier, they know what
the other trustees are doing and how they're handling matters,
holding annual trustee meetings. So the business is quite serious.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
And I guess if you're especially if your general practice
solicitor who's offering a family sort of law. It is
it's a big obligation which is not your regular gig.
So it's it's a bit like if you only cook
once a week, it's harder than if you've cooked three
or four times a week.
Speaker 4 (07:29):
And so I actually I quite like having the accountant,
the solicitor, and the independent professional trustee because you're all
keeping the checks and balance on each other. But also
I might add that with independent trustees, most independent professional trustees,
certain certain New Zealand family trust services, we have documents
(07:49):
which protect our clients. And in that regard, what I
mean is that when we take them on, we have
terms of engagement, We have terms recording the trusteeship, how
they will behave, how we will behave if they want
us to retire, what the retirement process will be, all
of those things.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
How does it work in between trustees? So if you're
an independent trustee and that's your gig, and you're the
one who knows how to make sure that all the
obligations under the law are met in terms of reports
and etc. How does that relationship work? Because if I
was a solicitor and I was a trustee, for someone
and you were the other trustee, I'd be like, well,
(08:29):
Janet's handling that. But can even those other trustees rely
on the independent trustee? I mean, how does that work?
Speaker 4 (08:36):
They can? But I think trusteeship is, you know, the
first word is trust, and so it's collaboration and trust.
And what in my world what we do is we
get together. We get together with the solistra, maybe the
accountant and the financial advisor if there was one in
the client. Sometimes the person has simply put their home
into the family trust and there is no accountant and
(08:56):
there is no solicitor that's required. And so we have
meetings online, we have meetings in person as to what
are we doing with this house? How long we're holding it?
Do we need to do new mortgage documents? Are we
going to sell it? Are we going to bow against
it and buy something else? Or bow against it and
possibly advance money to a business, as you also alluded to, would.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
You advise if I'd actually tell you what if ever
I won the lotto, I would keep it under the wraps.
But the one person who would know would be Janet,
because I'd be like, when need to set up a trust?
And I'd be along to talk to you about it,
and you'd put your business face on and get all
the paperwork out. But would you be advising me if
I came along to you to say, listen, you also
need a person you have, you know, to also be
(09:41):
a trustee alongside me. Is that something you like or
not necessarily?
Speaker 4 (09:45):
Well, it doesn't bother me if that person is there,
but not necessarily you have to ask what do they
add to the trust?
Speaker 2 (09:52):
Okay, So we don't really.
Speaker 4 (09:53):
Want to be in a situation where we're circulating trust
documents to five or six different parties to sign, especially
when those five or six parties have no idea what
they're signing. And a member trusteeship is personally.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
Like because I have a family member who's very diligent
on financial things and he would be all over that stuff,
and so that would be a good choice to go
alongside you because he would be a good partner for you.
Speaker 4 (10:17):
But he also has to remember, he has to remember
there's something goes wrong on that trust and there's a loss.
As a trustee, he's personally liable.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
So what happens if you I mean, okay, let's not
do it this way, because I don't want to put
you in this role. But say if you are a
trustee with Bob, and Bob is someone's uncle or brother,
and Bob runs off with the money. I don't know
how they would do that when there are two trustees.
But anyway, are you liable for Bob? No?
Speaker 4 (10:48):
No, I wouldn't be. But let's say that the trust
Let's say the trust bought a house, everybody lived in it,
and then the trust sold the house and the new
purchaser comes back to the trustees six months later and says,
this thing leaks like a sieve and you never told
me about it and it wasn't disclosed. Now, all trustees
(11:08):
have got a problem like unlike the family friend yeah okay,
or the family member who's just who's very good with
financial affairs, who's decided to be your trustee, he won't
have an insurance policy, he won't have lawyers around him.
But New Zealand Family Trust Services does. So we get
to handle that in the way that is.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
Gosh, it really has changed a lot, hasn't it. I mean,
I'm remembering because we've had a few conversations.
Speaker 4 (11:34):
Now, But you've done this at law school.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
This was ah, I mean, I did the law around
trusts from a legal point of view, and just I
mean just introducing me to what the concept of a
trust was, which is a trust, fuy relationships, the fiduciary relationship,
but also the you know, this is the nature of
what trustees are and what a trust is, and the
misunderstandings people have. It's like, I've got a trust, but
(11:58):
I'm just going to go dip into that.
Speaker 4 (11:59):
It's like, ah.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
No, it's not.
Speaker 4 (12:04):
That's is that one of the key Well, a lot
of people do think that there's trust. Yes, they have
a trust, but the assets really belong to them and
they'll do whatever they like, and they can come they
can come under a bit of heat. Then, for example,
if you have a trust and you've got a house
in it, and let's say you've got I don't know,
(12:25):
a couple hundred thousand in the bank, okay, in the
trust bank account, and you come to me and you
say to me, I want to take out fifty thousand
dollars and go and spend it all the casino. Then,
as your professional trustee, my answer is going to be
on so we can't do that. Okay, That's that's not
a very sensible investment for the trust to be making.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
Okay, actually, just to clarify for me and anyone who's
curious listening, of course, So because I remember when company law,
when you set up a company, the company is a person.
Is there a person created with the trust or it's
simply the relationship and the trustees.
Speaker 4 (13:01):
Yes, it's a relationship. A trust legally at law does
not exist. It's not like it's not it's not like
a company where it's a where it's a corporate self.
But what the person that sets up the trust is
called the settler. Then you have the trustees and they
are empowered to look after all the assets of the
trust for the beneficiaries. And then you have the appoint or,
who is frequently the settler, I might add, who usually
(13:24):
appoints the beneficiaries and the trustees and avertires them and
so forth, although trustees can do those jobs as well.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
Right, gosh, it is fascinating them just in terms of
the area of law as well. If you're ever going
to trust study some area of law which you think
is just going to be on its own fascinating, then
I'd just say go and study equity at law school,
which is the law of trusts. By the way, I
think they still call it equity.
Speaker 4 (13:47):
Know they do equity in tax. So those are my
two favorite subjects.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
Okay, you're not so excited about the tech side of things.
But anyway, hey, look, let's take some calls IA eight
one hundred and eighty ten eighty and remember, if you
have some questions for Janet Zukoa, then please give us
a call on that numb or you can text on
nine two nine two and don't leave it to tental sex. Okay,
So Keith's got the right idea A Keith, good.
Speaker 5 (14:12):
Day, Tyler. So my question is my wife and I
we are both in our seventies, two adult children, one married,
one divorced, with two grandchildren. How do we set up
a trust?
Speaker 2 (14:31):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (14:31):
Okay, So in the first instance, Keith, is it how
do you set up a trust? Is it to set
up a trust for you and your heart?
Speaker 5 (14:41):
How is it trust set up for their mess?
Speaker 2 (14:44):
Can can I ask a question? Is it also a
why do you know your why you want to set
up a trust? Yes?
Speaker 5 (14:50):
So in the event we become we become ill. My
understanding is that if you own property, then you have
to pay for medical care. Is that good?
Speaker 3 (15:06):
M ah?
Speaker 2 (15:08):
I think you might be referring to if you have
to go into a into retirement, into hospital level care
in a rest home and they they will make you
pay for that until you've whittled down to a couple
hundred thousand. Is that what you Is that the reference
you're making?
Speaker 5 (15:25):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (15:25):
Yes, okay, So how do.
Speaker 5 (15:27):
You protect you I'm not talking avoidance, Well you're talking
how do we protect it?
Speaker 3 (15:34):
Well?
Speaker 2 (15:34):
Yeah, I mean it's a semantic difference, isn't it. But
you basically don't want the stake to look at you
and go, well, hang on a minute. You've got all
this money here, Your your costs are coming out of
this money of yours. That is a big question you've asked,
believe it or not, Keith, So janet over to you.
Speaker 4 (15:50):
That is a massive minefield. So it used to be
that you would set up trust for the purposes of
ultimately avoiding west home subsidies, the care fees you know
that you might have to pay if you had too
much in asset value. No longer is that possible. So
there are three tests that are completed before you before
(16:13):
you get a sniffet a dollar from the government, in
regards to a subsidy, and I would say that the
earlier the trusts are set up the better. There are
rules where you are allowed to put your money in,
do all of your gifting so much per year, five
years prior to actually entering into a rest home. But
(16:34):
you can't set up a trust later on in life
in New Zealand, put your assets in and then say
I have no assets now and government please pay for
my rest home care. Nor can you set up a
trust for your children, divest yourself of all of your
assets and then go into rest from care and expect
(16:54):
government to pay a subsidy for that. I suppose if
there is very little value then possibly they might, but
they will of course say that you have divested yourself
of wealth and assets and they simply won't pay. I
think it is I don't know the exact amount now,
but I've got a feeling that it might be two
hundred and thirty one hundred and four.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
I think for a couple, it's one hundred and ninety
for an individual or something two hundred I can't remember,
but there you might even know that number, Keith. But
is there used to be a test for trusts where
you couldn't give more than twenty seven thousand a year
or something like that, which is gone, but they it
seems to be the test that they still apply when they're.
Speaker 4 (17:34):
Looking back, Yes to do so. It used to be
that you could put your assets into trust, get an
IOU in the form of acknowledgment of debt, and then
you would progressively forgive twenty seven thousand dollars per person
who this debt was o to, and so you'd whistle
down the debt that way. Then, of course there was
the regime was changed and gifting duty was abolished, and
(17:59):
Ministry of Social Warfare introduced rules, and now you are
allowed to forgive twenty seven thousand per couple. If you're
six percent, of course it's twenty seven. But if it's
a couple, it's thirteen and a half thousand. So it's
unlikely later on in life that you are going to
have enough years ahead of you at thirteen and a
half thousand forgiveness of debt per ANAM to get to
(18:22):
all of your gifting program in time.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
So I mean, so if you're I mean, I guess
if Keith was in his fifties setting up a trust
now would be a much more formidable entity to deal
with for the government as opposed to if you're in
your I don't know what age you are, Keith, but.
Speaker 4 (18:40):
Seventies okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. So we don't really see
people later on in life setting up trust simply to
avoid rest home duties with a view to trying to
get a subsidie.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
That's bad news, isn't it, Keith. That's not the answer
you have.
Speaker 5 (18:56):
It's not bad news. So the best option would be
for us to sell the house to the kids for
doll it.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
No, they'll look through that as well, look through that
as well.
Speaker 4 (19:08):
That is divesting yourself of well the side from which
you would need to be at market transfer price. But
what I would say is this, there's not a large
proportion of New Zealanders that goes into rest home care.
And what we are finding is that a lot of
people these days are saying, well, we do want some
(19:28):
care in our old age. Why don't we combine resources
with our younger our children and the younger generation and
maybe put two homes on a site that sort of thing.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
Have you got another reason you might want to use
a trust anyway, Keith? In terms of having some sort
of instrument set up by way you.
Speaker 6 (19:48):
No, no, not really.
Speaker 5 (19:50):
It was just a conversation my wife and I had
if we were to go into a rest on what happens, Okay.
Speaker 4 (19:59):
Definitely what you what you might find is if you
go to your accountants or your lawyers, they will do
a notional calculat for you and they will show you
whether it's worthwhile or not. But on the facts that
you've given us today, it doesn't sound to me like
it would be a sensible idea to be setting.
Speaker 5 (20:14):
Up not feasible.
Speaker 4 (20:15):
But well, I'm not saying, with hand on my heart,
absolutely categorically not feasible. I'm saying you could exploit it
with your lawyers and accountants, but it's not really a
reason that we would set up a trust for a
gentleman in his seventies simply to avoids thanes.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
Okay, thank you, Janet, Actually close enough, Thanks Keith Gosh. Actually,
I'm just on the political front. Isn't it funny that
you know they have arguments around wealth taxes and all
those sorts of things. But if you need to health,
if you need to go onto hospital level rest time care,
(20:54):
they'll take just about every cent you've had the government before,
they'll pay for anything for you. And it's a funny
little thing story that doesn't really get the coverage in
terms of how your wealth can get eaten to it.
Speaker 4 (21:05):
Guess it can get decimated later on in life.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
Absolutely, And look, the way to protect some wealth for
your kids in the case that you have to go
into rest time care is just to make sure you've
got a hell of a lot of money so there's
still something left overben I mean pretty much, that's it. Anyway, Oh,
we've got to take a break. What am I doing?
It's twenty eight past five O eight one hundred and
eighty ten eighties the number we'll be back in just
(21:29):
to tick. Are you worried about funding a comfortable retirement?
One interesting solution is to invest in an income fund
like the Harbor Income Fund from the experts at Harbor
Asset Management. It works beholding a mix of interest paying
securities and shares that have been designed to generate a
steady and sustainable income no matter the market. The Harbor
(21:50):
Income Fund is actively managed and currently it pays a
distribution of four point five percent per annum after fees
and tax, paid out in monthly installments. You also get
the peace of mind knowing your future is in the
hands of morning Stars Overall Fund Manager of the Year
twenty twenty five and twenty twenty six. To find out
more about Harbor's income fund, head to Harbor Asset dot
(22:12):
co dot NZ or speak with your financial advisor. This
is not intended as personalized advice. The product Disclosure Statement
for Harbor Investment Funds issued by Harbor Asset Management is
available at harbor Asset dot Co dot ENZ. And again
that morning Star Award wilded to Harbor Asset Management for
overa Fund Manager of the Year in twenty twenty five
(22:34):
and twenty twenty six.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
Insightful, entertaining and always not boys. Tim Beveridge on the
weekend Collective News TALKSB News TALKSB.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
We're talking trusts with Janet Zcoa who's now become a
bit of a regular on our show with us and
we love having her on. She's the managing director for
New Zealand Family Trust Services. And let's go to Peter. Hello.
Peter's Lifters radio on and it's on an eight second delay,
so he's suddenly going to go, oh, he's talking to me,
(23:05):
And here he is three two one Peter.
Speaker 3 (23:08):
Hello, yep, I've got yeah, yeah, I've got a slave problem.
I've had it going on for the last seven eight years.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
And before we continue, can you have turned your radio down,
haven't you?
Speaker 3 (23:27):
I've got it.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
Well, no, I need to turn it off. It comes
back to us. Oh okay, well done, okay, good eye,
right where you go? You've got you with Janets Occurr
and me.
Speaker 3 (23:39):
Yeah, my partner died or was in two thousand and nine.
But I've had trouble with the have family's kids and
they what they've gone and done is while I was
getting counter treatment, they broke into my house, stole her well,
(24:02):
the forged it. They so all the house from underneath me,
and I'm trying to fipe them to get it back.
Speaker 4 (24:12):
Now.
Speaker 3 (24:13):
I haven't got the internet, so I know they've gone
onto the internet about it. I've seen my lawyers down here,
but they just walk away from it.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
That's strange. Do you think they broke it and stole it?
Shouldn't you go go one to the police?
Speaker 3 (24:29):
Comportunately, that's another short point. The police aren't interested. They
just staying around and said, oh, it's a civil matter.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
Oh hell, this is this looks like a quite a
difficult one to untangle. Iman Janet, you got any starting
point with us.
Speaker 4 (24:45):
Look, I don't think Peter, that this is really a
question for me. I think that if somebody has broken
into your house and done these things, first it would
definitely be a police complaint, and you're well with your
rights to make a complaint if that is indeed what's happened.
And secondly you would be talking to your lawyers.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
Yeah, okay, I think that's a really difficult one for
us to dig into, Peter, because it's that it involves
a lot of interpretation of facts and things. But if
what's going on is if you think some lawyers have
been behaving in appropriately with a fraudulent document, you need
to go to the law society. You probably need to
(25:24):
try and get some legal advice yourself, as much as
that's not the cheapest thing in the world. And if
you really do think that the police have been doing
their jobs on it, you can actually make a complain
about that as well to the IPCA if you really
if that's something, But it's unfortunately we can't really help
you without beyond ticking those boxes. But obviously, sorry, we
(25:46):
have to leave you there there, Peter. I'm afraid, but
thanks for your call. It's been loaded with all sorts
of disputes in facts, isn't it. So anyway, look, I
tell you what, let's go to Sorry, we couldn't help Peter.
Always feel bad and we can't really help people, but
it's just too contentious, all that stuff to sort out
on radio. Catherine, Hello, you need to turn off your
(26:08):
speaker phone. Okay, I'm going to put you back to
my producer and we're going to see if we can
sort that out because we've had this problem before. I
think here's a few texts, so we look at some
text Janet, just to while I have a couple finish
my cup of tea here. Somebody says, and we've been
(26:29):
talking about a range of people who can act us
to trustees, accountant, lawyer, independent trustee. Sounds like a lot
of fees, says my texter.
Speaker 4 (26:37):
Oh, and I agree. It can indeed be a lot
of fees and you should clear that. You should just
clear that immediately before you even sign with any independent
professional trustee. New Zealand Family Trust Services offers officer fee service.
Where we are six hundred and ninety five dollars a
year and that includes us holding and documenting the annual
trustee meeting minutes.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
But if we as cheap as chips, it's we do a.
Speaker 4 (27:01):
Lot of this work and we know that we're we
know that we're reasonably.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
Very that's the that's the ongoing trustee fees. What's the
cost to set up a trust?
Speaker 4 (27:09):
So to set up a trust is about two and
a half to three and a half thousand, It depends
how complicated it is. And then of course for us
at New Zealand Family Trust Services, if we are having
to do work for a client, then we do charge
on an hourly basis.
Speaker 2 (27:25):
But when you that's if the trust is having to
deal with our sets and buying and selling.
Speaker 4 (27:30):
Buying and selling and doing counter things. So you often
find that the fees will you know, you set the
trust up, you put the assets and the trust and
then for many trustees, they do they do nothing else.
They don't buy and sell continuously. They hold it for
three or four or more years and their only fee
(27:51):
is six nine five a year and sometimes that's even
tax deductible.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
Okay, right, somebody says the important thing is don't give
your trustee company I don't understand. I think we're blending
a couple of things anyway, pusinesses and the important things.
Don't give your trustee company sole signing rights for withdrawing
money that was around avoiding getting ripped off by a
particular trustee. I guess we would.
Speaker 4 (28:16):
We would never want soul rights. We like to work
with our co trustees, so it's unanimous decision making all
the time.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
So how does that work if people will engage you
guys to do something and that there's another trustee, so.
Speaker 4 (28:28):
People come in and that Well, in fact, I'll have
a client on Monday. He's going to want to open
a bank account and put some money into that bank account.
So we as the trustees will sign all the bank forms.
But I certainly as a trustee, will not have access
to that bank account. I don't want access to the
bank account. It's the trust bank account. The trustees will,
(28:50):
you know, they'll put money in. They may take money
out financial account to sort out what the balances are
at the end of the year, and then we'll document.
Speaker 2 (28:59):
Okay, let's have a look at some more we've got.
I shall tell you what, Well, distill a few more texts,
but will take a break now to give you an
opportunity to jump ahead of the queue. Oh, eight hundred
and eighty ten eighty is the number, and it's a
twenty one and a half minutes to six News Talk
sa'd B News Talks. They'd be with Tim Beverage. Look,
(29:19):
we're talking trust with Janet Zuca from New Zealand Family
Trust Services and will hang on a second. There we go, Catherine, Hello, yes, hi, Hi, Hello.
Speaker 7 (29:30):
Hello, thinky I just wondering is there a minimum amount
in the just set up a trust?
Speaker 4 (29:35):
I don't believe so, I don't believe that there's a
minimum amount for me. It would be what do you
want to protect? You wouldn't set up a trust nearly, willy,
But what would you want to protect and why would
you want to do it? That's that's my first starting
point with clients.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
You can put anything in a trust. You can put
your pet rock in a trust. It might not be
worth two and a half thousand dollars set up for you.
Speaker 4 (29:59):
Generally only put appreciating assets in trust.
Speaker 7 (30:02):
No, right, there's money in the bank like forty thousand.
But at the moment I'm working. But when I retire,
if I'm in my seventies.
Speaker 4 (30:16):
So what why would you want the trust? Why do
you want the trust? Katherine?
Speaker 7 (30:22):
I just wanted to know if if the money was
in the trust, could I still claim an accommodation benefit
from wins or would they take that into account?
Speaker 4 (30:31):
They would definitely take that into account, Wednesday. All moneys
into account, all moneies that you have, all moneies that
you receive, especially as distributions from trusts.
Speaker 7 (30:43):
Right, thanks for that.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
Well you save yourself a bit of you know, a
lot of energy and worry about it. It's just the
way it is. Yeah, thanks Catherine, exactly, Thank you. Actually,
would people ever put something that's of extreme sentimental value
into a trust? That might be important? It doesn't actually
have it doesn't have necessary financial value, but something where
some it is like I don't know, I don't know
why you would put in it, but you don't want
(31:09):
particular people. You want it to be preserved for some
future sort of.
Speaker 4 (31:14):
It could be preserved for future generations.
Speaker 2 (31:17):
Yeah, yeah, just wondering about that. Actually, it's funny, what's
the what's the saying there's two there's only two things
certain in life, and that's death and taxes or something. Absolutely,
I sort of think there's a third death taxes and
winds looking through any trust. You might have said it
it's almost you know, like that, doesn't it.
Speaker 4 (31:37):
Well, Winds will examine. They will examine your affairs, including
trust affairs.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
Okay, what is the process is we'll get through some
correspondence here. What's the process to dissolve to trusts? Husband
and wife trusts, the homers and trust There are no
money and the trusts originally set up to protect our
home due to professional husband's occupational risk retired, now not
sure we need them, hence considering dissolving them. Thanks Judy.
Speaker 4 (32:03):
Well, there's a process that will be probably found in
your deed trust to start with, so that will that
will lead you through how you will close the trust down.
And usually the assets are distributed and all the liability
to pay it off, and then we change the vesting
date and then we wind the trust up. But if
that's not sitting in the deed of trust provisions, then
(32:25):
we turn our mind to the trusts at twenty nineteen,
and there is a process there as well.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
You can actually fun of it. By the way, when
people hear the name of an active legislation, piece of
legislation like the Trusts Act two thousand and nineteen. They
are look, they can sound quite legal, but often you
can actually read them too because.
Speaker 3 (32:47):
The law is it.
Speaker 4 (32:48):
Well, they've written this in what I think is fairly
understandable for the lay person.
Speaker 2 (32:54):
Absolutely, yeah, I've just found it, because I mean I've
obviously studied legislation at law school and things, but I
found that there's been a few acts I've looked at
in the last few months and you go, actually, that's
I don't know why doesn't go straight to the act,
because they're instead of reading a press release and something else,
you just read what the acts is and said, look,
here's an exception to that.
Speaker 4 (33:11):
Well, when they rewrote the old Trustee Act, that was
one of their objectives was to write English and to
write the legislation and plain English a little bit like
the Company's Act.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
How long, just out of curiosity, how many This sounds
like such a silly question, but other people might be curious.
How long is the average trust deed? How detailed are
how many pages.
Speaker 3 (33:34):
Most of it?
Speaker 2 (33:34):
I'm just kind of are they generally quite long? Because
there are so many boxes to tech as well.
Speaker 4 (33:39):
Most of the trusteeds that I read are somewhere between
twenty and thirty pages long, and I do read them
because frequently you will find a clause at the end
of the deed of trusts which says, all of those
things can be done. However you have to give you know,
the settler thirty days written notice and obtain their permission
for all the beneficiaries. That sort of thing. So you
(34:01):
read the whole of the trusteed before you attempt to
do anything. You don't just read.
Speaker 2 (34:05):
That's actually not the case of reading the small print.
It's just a case of reading all the print.
Speaker 4 (34:08):
Or the print, Yeah, read it all so you know
what you're dealing with.
Speaker 2 (34:11):
High Team. My parents set up a trust thirty years
ago to protect the assets for the family in case
that you move into rest time. So thirty years that's interesting.
Have the rules changed on those trusts or are they
the same as when they're created? It thinks heaps. It's
from Kathy, So that's.
Speaker 4 (34:26):
About That's about grandfather and legislation, and I think that
caller is getting it. So, yes, indeed, the rules have
changed from thirty years ago. Legislation has changed, Ministers social
welfare have changed their rules. There's been numerous court cases
in the last thirty odd years. However, when your parents
moved the assets in, they would have either sold them
(34:47):
or gifted them, and if they sold them they did
some deeds of forgiveness of debt. So what WINS will
want to look at the Minister Social Welfare wants to
look at if they're considering rest hom subsidy is when
those assets will moved in, how the trust has been run,
what gifting has been done in what amounts and when.
Speaker 2 (35:08):
Gosh, so even thirty years ago, what's I mean, what's
the case law generally delivered in terms of how much
WINS can look at and a trust that's thirty years.
Speaker 4 (35:20):
Old, well apparently they can look forevermore.
Speaker 2 (35:24):
Bloody hell, criky. You don't worry about the wealth tax people.
If you need to go into health, if you need
to go into the old rest home hospital care, that's
how the government gets its money back, although it's obviously
spending it on your care, so no one's really winning.
I think the other thing is if you can possibly
avoid it, just stay nice and healthy for as long
as possible.
Speaker 4 (35:43):
And yeah, well, also when you consider the cost of
west Ham care today is somewhere between I don't know,
twelve and fifteen hundred. Isn't it a week that does
pay for an awful lot of home care?
Speaker 2 (35:55):
Yeah? Yes, indeed, oh eight hundred. Have we got time
for more? Cause we'll see, we've got to take a
quick break one call holding holding there, so we'll we'll
just take a break down and come back and just
the tickets. Eleven and a half minutes to six News
Talk set B. We've got time for one last caller. Hey,
by the way, thank you for one for listening, but
also for your text and everything. I know we haven't
(36:16):
been able to get through everything, but we do do
our best. I can see some calls coming in with
about six months. We've only got about three or four
minutes to go, which is a little note to Craig,
who is our last call at gooda Craig, how are
you good?
Speaker 6 (36:28):
Thank you? Hey, look, thank you firstly for the conversation day.
It's always very interesting to sort of understand different perspectives
on things. But question I've got if you create a trust,
does that make it easier, like if you're helping, like
we have a son who's looking at buying and purchasing
(36:50):
his first property and we have a freehold property with
heats of equity. It is creating a trust a helpful
way of getting them into a property.
Speaker 5 (37:00):
Or.
Speaker 4 (37:02):
Like creating a touch to them, adding a trust for.
Speaker 6 (37:05):
You, creating a trust between the between my wife, myself
and him.
Speaker 4 (37:13):
Get you couldn't do it that way or your trust
if you've got a trust, could lend money to him
or to his trust.
Speaker 2 (37:22):
Is there an advantage in having set up a trust?
Speaker 6 (37:26):
And yeah, that's what I'm thinking. So so like it's
not so much having a lot of cash but a
lot of equity.
Speaker 4 (37:32):
Well you could have proportional share shares, you know, and
that so it is a trust. But behind all of
that we mark it out very clearly that you know,
partition that trusts out as and who's got what in
the trust? Thirty Oh?
Speaker 2 (37:49):
Is it also protecting the ownership? I if you put
some money in protecting your your share of the assets
and what you're adding to your kids to help get it.
Speaker 6 (37:58):
What I'm sort of more looking at, is that a
helpful way to get a bank loan for a young
person who's looking at purchasing a first property.
Speaker 4 (38:06):
Well, I think that banks what they ultimately want is
they want to know that the money that they lend
they're going to get back, so they don't mind whether
the child buys it in their personal name, whether a
guarantee from the parents or a guarantee from the parents trustees.
Speaker 2 (38:24):
I think behind that is also the banks still want
to know exactly how the property is being funded, and
you don't want you don't want to try and sort
of create any instruments to conceal that because they want
to know.
Speaker 4 (38:37):
They will know where the money comes from there to
see evidence of that, but they ultimately want to know
that they're going to get repaid. So well, setting up
a trust with your son make it any easier for
funding to be forthcoming. Not necessarily, but I do think
that it goes a long way when they can see
that parents have got good equity and they are willing
(38:59):
to guarantee loans and saying that. I always like those
guarantees limited, and I'm verptent about that. When parents are
doing that, the bank of Mum and Dad doesn't want
to become the default garant all and it all turns
to custard and then the Bank of Mum and Dads
wiped out. So we're very careful about it.
Speaker 6 (39:15):
Okay, thank you, I really appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (39:18):
That's yeah, very you have a family trust services to
if you're curious there, Craig, I've got a quick one.
I'm not sure if've got time going a minute a half,
I'm going to sprint through it. It's a very quick question.
Can a trust be set up to protect inherited money
from a partner? And I'm going to add the first
thing is, and if you get inherited money, if you
bang it in your joint account, that's it days over.
Speaker 4 (39:37):
So in the very first instance, the answer is yes. However,
if you intermingle it, and that means that you use
the money for relationship purposes, then it loses its color,
and as a consequence, it can it can no longer
necessarily be deemed separate property and therefore inheritance only.
Speaker 2 (39:54):
So the first thing is don't stick the money into
your shared account, because that's its game over.
Speaker 4 (39:59):
Or if you are going to do that, you make
sure you've got plenty of legal documentation with good legal
advice before you before you move. One single pesto.
Speaker 2 (40:10):
Or peso for you anything else A great pesto. Hey, Janet, look,
we really appreciate you coming on the show. I can
tell from the number of questions that come in and look,
I know we can't help everyone, but hopefully there's been
something that's helped set shed some light on your own people.
Speaker 4 (40:32):
Question mean email me, email me at Janet at nz
ft S dot co dot Enzi and I will try
and help questions.
Speaker 2 (40:39):
Okay, there you go. Well the well, okay, you might.
It'll be interesting to see whether you suddenly go maybe.
Speaker 4 (40:46):
I usually doing it on Monday, and there's quite a
few questions and the sticking answers, so.
Speaker 2 (40:51):
That's a great part of it. Thanks for joining us.
Great to see you. Look Sunday at six is next.
Thank you for listening. You're going to check any of
the hours out and iHeartRadio News Talks b website, and
also thanks to my producers Isaiah. Great job, mate, and
we'll look forward to company next weekend. This is news
Talk ZIB Weekend Collective shof an hour.
Speaker 1 (41:22):
For more from the Weekend Collective, listen live to news
Talk ZIB weekends from three pm or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Betrayal Weekly
Betrayal Weekly is back for a new season. Every Thursday, Betrayal Weekly shares first-hand accounts of broken trust, shocking deceptions, and the trail of destruction they leave behind. Hosted by Andrea Gunning, this weekly ongoing series digs into real-life stories of betrayal and the aftermath. From stories of double lives to dark discoveries, these are cautionary tales and accounts of resilience against all odds. From the producers of the critically acclaimed Betrayal series, Betrayal Weekly drops new episodes every Thursday. If you would like to share your story, you can reach out to the Betrayal Team by emailing them at betrayalpod@gmail.com and follow us on Instagram at @betrayalpod and @glasspodcasts. Please join our Substack for additional exclusive content, curated book recommendations, and community discussions. Sign up FREE by clicking this link Beyond Betrayal Substack. Join our community dedicated to truth, resilience, and healing. Your voice matters! Be a part of our Betrayal journey on Substack.