May 13, 2026 • 11 mins
The Waikato Rugby Union shared an open letter on their Facebook page directed at parents, coaches, spectators and supporters of kids sport that incidents of verbal abuse, intimidation, aggression and violence on the sidelines are simply not good enough.
It says that recent incidents have prompted the call to action as the junior sport season has just gotten underway.
Waikato Rugby Union CEO Amy Marfell joined D'Arcy to discuss.
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Dancy Wildergrave
from News Talk ZEDB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Earlier this week, the Whack I Thought Rugby Union shared
an open letter on their Facebook page directed at parents, coaches,
and spectators and supporters of kids sport. The incidents of
verbal abuse, intimidation, aggression, violence on the sidelines are simply
(00:33):
not good enough. It says that recent incidents have prompted
the call to action as the junior sports season has
just gotten underway for rugby at least wanted to dig
into this. The CEO of Like I Thought Rugby, Amy Martel,
joins us now to discuss good evening, Amy, I trust
you well, I am thank you. I see now the
(00:57):
rugby are looking at talking again about sideline behavior of
adults at school games. This is a constant as that
in school sport or younger person's sport. It's a real shame.
It has to constantly be raised. But plainly it's still
a clear and present problem in the Wakata and i'd
suggest right across the.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
Mounting yes, absolutely, and while I used my Wakat Rugby platform,
and obviously we're specting directly to our rugby community, I
guess The message was intended to hopefully cut across regions
and cut across codes. We know that nationally, across multiple
different sports, that this is an ongoing challenge, and we
(01:38):
thought it was time that we, really, I guess, put
forward quite a pointed message about the behaviors that we
expect to see in our youth sports.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
You've sent an open letter out to parents and coaches
and spectators and support us, so pretty much everybody. What's
the main thrust of this if you could summarize it
with a couple of points, Amy, I think it.
Speaker 3 (01:59):
Was just around setting expectations for what we want to
see out there and what our kids deserve to see
of us as adult influences in sport. Where a couple
of weeks in now to the youth's sports season, we've
already heard that there have been some incidents that have
been less than ideal in terms of adult behavior and
(02:20):
sideline support and that kind of thing. So it seemed
like a really timely opportunity to just put the message
out there around the expectations and hopefully, bit by bit
get some change out there for our kids.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
How do you think this has changed over the years.
I believe that earlier on, when I was young playing
the game. I don't know if it was as prevalent
as it is now. Do you think it's risen this
objective behavior from the sidelines from all people, from the parents,
from the spectators.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
It's hard to know whether we've seen arise or we're
just hearing about it a little bit more, But certainly
we're definitely seeing it still be prevalent. Perhaps as sport
has become more professional, maybe people think that there are
higher stakes, but we're definitely not seeing and the behavior
across the board. So in my opinion, any instances of
(03:11):
this type of behavior, they are too many. So if
we can get people to stop and think about what
they're doing in the effect it has on young people,
then that's a really good outcome from these messages.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Personal responsibility for the people concerned. But let's talk about
parents and spectators at a part witnessing this. How do
they work through this problem? What can they do to
try and normalize good behavior and shut people down Because
a lot of people are concerned someone's having a crack
from the sideline, they don't want to say anything just
(03:41):
in case they incur the wrath of the individual. So
is their process training around how you actually deal with
this from your own personal point of view toward other humans.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
Yeah, I think the safety aspect is absolutely something that
we need to be mindful of, and it's a message
that I want to reinforce.
Speaker 4 (03:59):
I guess the intention of the letter was.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
Never to insist that people needed to stand up to
behavior that might make them feel unsafe. I think there's
a part of it that is imploring people to just
role model good behavior. We know that sometimes if behavior
is normalized, then the behavior that is maybe a bit
negative it stands out a bit more and people might
think twice about being the only one who's exhibiting that
behavior in a group of people that are doing the
(04:22):
right thing. So there's that tactic which, you know, hopefully
if we get enough people exhibiting what we want to
see out there, it kind of retrains behavior. There definitely
are I guess, consequences that we can implement for people
that are exhibiting negative behavior, and they are often dealt
with through the relevant organizing bodies. So whether that's secondary
(04:45):
schools themselves for secondary school Rugby, or whether it's through
judicial processes that might sit in the club Rugby context.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
For example, has this been effective when you can sanction
people there? Does it actually work? Or does the threat
of sanctioning hanging above people? Does that work? Do you know?
Speaker 4 (05:06):
I think there's a little bit of both. Right.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
We know that generally in society, when people think they
might get in trouble for something, it might make them
think twice about their behavior.
Speaker 4 (05:15):
But definitely, where we are.
Speaker 3 (05:16):
Sanctioning people for breaches of the rules of the game,
which include aggression and violence and things like that, we
are seeing people being actually removed from the game, and
they're often re entering and not having any further incidences.
So sometimes simply removing the joy of playing for somebody
can be enough of a deterrent to make them think
about their behavior.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
It's astonishing that adults don't mind some of the examples
they've used, don't mind actually gotting off at children. I
find that fascinating that anybody in a sensible space would
even consider doing that. You can't tell me what's wrong
with people, But it's bizarre, is it not?
Speaker 3 (05:55):
Amy? It's definitely the thing that I guess out of
all of this keeps me awake at night. Right, we
know that what kids want out of their sporting experiences
is to have fun, to feel supported, to be given
the space to learn and develop, to play with their mates,
you know, basically, to feel good, to.
Speaker 4 (06:11):
Feel like they belong and be valued.
Speaker 3 (06:13):
And so we know that the behavior that we're seeing
people exhibit is not conducive to that. So it is
kind of surprising that people are willing to behave in
some of the ways that they are around young children.
And I guess I have two major fears off the
back of this. One is that kids will drop out.
You know, if they're not getting the things that they
need out of sport, why would they bother? They're just
(06:33):
going to stop playing. And the other is that kids
grow up thinking that that type of behavior is acceptable.
And that's a scary thought too.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
I was going to touch on that worst case scenario,
kids will just give up. They won't play anymore. And
we all know with the domination of screens that for
children to actually get out and run and sweat and laugh,
it is not not looking at developing the next all blacks.
We're looking at developing children and giving them space. So
(07:02):
how many children do you know parents have actually taken
their children from game because they simply won't put up
with this anymore.
Speaker 3 (07:11):
That's a really hard stat to capture, but we do
know that it's a conversation point.
Speaker 4 (07:15):
You know, you only have to talk to.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
People that you meet at a party or that you
interact with on the weekend, and everybody's got a story
about either something that their child has experienced or that
they experienced as a child that's made them want to
give up.
Speaker 4 (07:29):
So we know it's a very real reality.
Speaker 3 (07:31):
Capturing exactly how many people or how many young people
have actually made that decision is a really hard stat,
but we know that the risk is very very real.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
You've engaged other unions, are other people involved sport like,
for example, to actually join in with this, because I'd
suggest beyond rugby, it extends to other sport too. It's
not just about code absolutely.
Speaker 4 (07:55):
Like I said earlier, it's not just rugby.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
And I'm not for a second suggesting that rugby has
a bigger problem than any other sport.
Speaker 4 (08:03):
I don't think that's the case at all.
Speaker 3 (08:05):
I know that a number of codes, in various ways,
shapes and forms, are all trying to tackle this issue,
and like you've said, I think the strength is really
in people banding together. You know, if we all sit
down together, stand together on this issue, then hopefully we
can send the message that it won't be tolerated and
(08:26):
then we can try and get some change bit by bit.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
I suppose that extends to sideline commentary for one of
a better phrase on refereeing, because this is an issue
with referees, so not easarily about the children, because again
that can demonstrate to the kids it's okay you stand
on the sideline and have a crack at the referee
and again that is completely unacceptable. Does that fall them
(08:49):
the same boundaries for Wakita.
Speaker 4 (08:51):
Rugby one hundred percent.
Speaker 3 (08:53):
You know, not only what you've described during young people
thinking that they can abuse referees, but it's also the
fact that referees, particularly in the youth space, are volunteers.
We don't have enough volunteers in sport as it is,
so if we end up with young people adults whoever
it is, abusing our really important volunteers such as referees,
then we end up losing them from the game too.
(09:15):
We simply cannot run sport without volunteers, and referees are
obviously an integral part of sport full stop.
Speaker 4 (09:22):
So absolutely.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
The intention of my message was that we just need
to do better by not only our children, the kids
in the game, but also our volunteers, coaches, referees, managers.
They're all out there doing their best, giving up their time,
and they're doing it for very similar reasons. They want
to have fun, they want to feel connected to sport.
But it's not helpful if we're constantly berating them.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
And you had a situation with volunteers. You said it's
difficult to get volunteers, and we understand with time restraints
on families and the like, that is very difficult to
get people free of charge to go out there and
actually represent an aid in a bet with what's going
on there. But are they put off because of those
reasons or as part of the reasons they don't want
to engage Jenny Moore based on the sideline abuse, do you.
Speaker 3 (10:10):
Think I definitely know that Again, it's a conversation point
right with volunteers, whether it's abuse from coaches, abuse from parents,
whether it's sideline.
Speaker 4 (10:22):
Abuse directed it referees.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
It's definitely a consideration for whether people are willing or
not to be involved, especially if you're not getting paid.
You know, there's the well known saying, I'm not getting
paid enough for this. When we talk about volunteers, they're
not getting paid anything.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
I get you on that one, and we thank you
so much for your time. We've been speaking with the
Wakata Rugby UNI chief executive as we look at the
crackdown on sideline abuse, Amy Marfel. Thank you very much
for your time and wishing you the best as well
in forging forward in this very dodgy but valuable situation.
Speaker 4 (11:01):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
For more from Sports Talk, listen Lived and News Talks
It be from seven pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Dancy Wildergrave
from News Talk ZEDB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Earlier this week, the Whack I Thought Rugby Union shared
an open letter on their Facebook page directed at parents, coaches,
and spectators and supporters of kids sport. The incidents of
verbal abuse, intimidation, aggression, violence on the sidelines are simply
(00:33):
not good enough. It says that recent incidents have prompted
the call to action as the junior sports season has
just gotten underway for rugby at least wanted to dig
into this. The CEO of Like I Thought Rugby, Amy Martel,
joins us now to discuss good evening, Amy, I trust
you well, I am thank you. I see now the
(00:57):
rugby are looking at talking again about sideline behavior of
adults at school games. This is a constant as that
in school sport or younger person's sport. It's a real shame.
It has to constantly be raised. But plainly it's still
a clear and present problem in the Wakata and i'd
suggest right across the.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
Mounting yes, absolutely, and while I used my Wakat Rugby platform,
and obviously we're specting directly to our rugby community, I
guess The message was intended to hopefully cut across regions
and cut across codes. We know that nationally, across multiple
different sports, that this is an ongoing challenge, and we
(01:38):
thought it was time that we, really, I guess, put
forward quite a pointed message about the behaviors that we
expect to see in our youth sports.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
You've sent an open letter out to parents and coaches
and spectators and support us, so pretty much everybody. What's
the main thrust of this if you could summarize it
with a couple of points, Amy, I think it.
Speaker 3 (01:59):
Was just around setting expectations for what we want to
see out there and what our kids deserve to see
of us as adult influences in sport. Where a couple
of weeks in now to the youth's sports season, we've
already heard that there have been some incidents that have
been less than ideal in terms of adult behavior and
(02:20):
sideline support and that kind of thing. So it seemed
like a really timely opportunity to just put the message
out there around the expectations and hopefully, bit by bit
get some change out there for our kids.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
How do you think this has changed over the years.
I believe that earlier on, when I was young playing
the game. I don't know if it was as prevalent
as it is now. Do you think it's risen this
objective behavior from the sidelines from all people, from the parents,
from the spectators.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
It's hard to know whether we've seen arise or we're
just hearing about it a little bit more, But certainly
we're definitely seeing it still be prevalent. Perhaps as sport
has become more professional, maybe people think that there are
higher stakes, but we're definitely not seeing and the behavior
across the board. So in my opinion, any instances of
(03:11):
this type of behavior, they are too many. So if
we can get people to stop and think about what
they're doing in the effect it has on young people,
then that's a really good outcome from these messages.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Personal responsibility for the people concerned. But let's talk about
parents and spectators at a part witnessing this. How do
they work through this problem? What can they do to
try and normalize good behavior and shut people down Because
a lot of people are concerned someone's having a crack
from the sideline, they don't want to say anything just
(03:41):
in case they incur the wrath of the individual. So
is their process training around how you actually deal with
this from your own personal point of view toward other humans.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
Yeah, I think the safety aspect is absolutely something that
we need to be mindful of, and it's a message
that I want to reinforce.
Speaker 4 (03:59):
I guess the intention of the letter was.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
Never to insist that people needed to stand up to
behavior that might make them feel unsafe. I think there's
a part of it that is imploring people to just
role model good behavior. We know that sometimes if behavior
is normalized, then the behavior that is maybe a bit
negative it stands out a bit more and people might
think twice about being the only one who's exhibiting that
behavior in a group of people that are doing the
(04:22):
right thing. So there's that tactic which, you know, hopefully
if we get enough people exhibiting what we want to
see out there, it kind of retrains behavior. There definitely
are I guess, consequences that we can implement for people
that are exhibiting negative behavior, and they are often dealt
with through the relevant organizing bodies. So whether that's secondary
(04:45):
schools themselves for secondary school Rugby, or whether it's through
judicial processes that might sit in the club Rugby context.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
For example, has this been effective when you can sanction
people there? Does it actually work? Or does the threat
of sanctioning hanging above people? Does that work? Do you know?
Speaker 4 (05:06):
I think there's a little bit of both. Right.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
We know that generally in society, when people think they
might get in trouble for something, it might make them
think twice about their behavior.
Speaker 4 (05:15):
But definitely, where we are.
Speaker 3 (05:16):
Sanctioning people for breaches of the rules of the game,
which include aggression and violence and things like that, we
are seeing people being actually removed from the game, and
they're often re entering and not having any further incidences.
So sometimes simply removing the joy of playing for somebody
can be enough of a deterrent to make them think
about their behavior.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
It's astonishing that adults don't mind some of the examples
they've used, don't mind actually gotting off at children. I
find that fascinating that anybody in a sensible space would
even consider doing that. You can't tell me what's wrong
with people, But it's bizarre, is it not?
Speaker 3 (05:55):
Amy? It's definitely the thing that I guess out of
all of this keeps me awake at night. Right, we
know that what kids want out of their sporting experiences
is to have fun, to feel supported, to be given
the space to learn and develop, to play with their mates,
you know, basically, to feel good, to.
Speaker 4 (06:11):
Feel like they belong and be valued.
Speaker 3 (06:13):
And so we know that the behavior that we're seeing
people exhibit is not conducive to that. So it is
kind of surprising that people are willing to behave in
some of the ways that they are around young children.
And I guess I have two major fears off the
back of this. One is that kids will drop out.
You know, if they're not getting the things that they
need out of sport, why would they bother? They're just
(06:33):
going to stop playing. And the other is that kids
grow up thinking that that type of behavior is acceptable.
And that's a scary thought too.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
I was going to touch on that worst case scenario,
kids will just give up. They won't play anymore. And
we all know with the domination of screens that for
children to actually get out and run and sweat and laugh,
it is not not looking at developing the next all blacks.
We're looking at developing children and giving them space. So
(07:02):
how many children do you know parents have actually taken
their children from game because they simply won't put up
with this anymore.
Speaker 3 (07:11):
That's a really hard stat to capture, but we do
know that it's a conversation point.
Speaker 4 (07:15):
You know, you only have to talk to.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
People that you meet at a party or that you
interact with on the weekend, and everybody's got a story
about either something that their child has experienced or that
they experienced as a child that's made them want to
give up.
Speaker 4 (07:29):
So we know it's a very real reality.
Speaker 3 (07:31):
Capturing exactly how many people or how many young people
have actually made that decision is a really hard stat,
but we know that the risk is very very real.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
You've engaged other unions, are other people involved sport like,
for example, to actually join in with this, because I'd
suggest beyond rugby, it extends to other sport too. It's
not just about code absolutely.
Speaker 4 (07:55):
Like I said earlier, it's not just rugby.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
And I'm not for a second suggesting that rugby has
a bigger problem than any other sport.
Speaker 4 (08:03):
I don't think that's the case at all.
Speaker 3 (08:05):
I know that a number of codes, in various ways,
shapes and forms, are all trying to tackle this issue,
and like you've said, I think the strength is really
in people banding together. You know, if we all sit
down together, stand together on this issue, then hopefully we
can send the message that it won't be tolerated and
(08:26):
then we can try and get some change bit by bit.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
I suppose that extends to sideline commentary for one of
a better phrase on refereeing, because this is an issue
with referees, so not easarily about the children, because again
that can demonstrate to the kids it's okay you stand
on the sideline and have a crack at the referee
and again that is completely unacceptable. Does that fall them
(08:49):
the same boundaries for Wakita.
Speaker 4 (08:51):
Rugby one hundred percent.
Speaker 3 (08:53):
You know, not only what you've described during young people
thinking that they can abuse referees, but it's also the
fact that referees, particularly in the youth space, are volunteers.
We don't have enough volunteers in sport as it is,
so if we end up with young people adults whoever
it is, abusing our really important volunteers such as referees,
then we end up losing them from the game too.
(09:15):
We simply cannot run sport without volunteers, and referees are
obviously an integral part of sport full stop.
Speaker 4 (09:22):
So absolutely.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
The intention of my message was that we just need
to do better by not only our children, the kids
in the game, but also our volunteers, coaches, referees, managers.
They're all out there doing their best, giving up their time,
and they're doing it for very similar reasons. They want
to have fun, they want to feel connected to sport.
But it's not helpful if we're constantly berating them.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
And you had a situation with volunteers. You said it's
difficult to get volunteers, and we understand with time restraints
on families and the like, that is very difficult to
get people free of charge to go out there and
actually represent an aid in a bet with what's going
on there. But are they put off because of those
reasons or as part of the reasons they don't want
to engage Jenny Moore based on the sideline abuse, do you.
Speaker 3 (10:10):
Think I definitely know that Again, it's a conversation point
right with volunteers, whether it's abuse from coaches, abuse from parents,
whether it's sideline.
Speaker 4 (10:22):
Abuse directed it referees.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
It's definitely a consideration for whether people are willing or
not to be involved, especially if you're not getting paid.
You know, there's the well known saying, I'm not getting
paid enough for this. When we talk about volunteers, they're
not getting paid anything.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
I get you on that one, and we thank you
so much for your time. We've been speaking with the
Wakata Rugby UNI chief executive as we look at the
crackdown on sideline abuse, Amy Marfel. Thank you very much
for your time and wishing you the best as well
in forging forward in this very dodgy but valuable situation.
Speaker 4 (11:01):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
For more from Sports Talk, listen Lived and News Talks
It be from seven pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio
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