July 17, 2026 • 41 mins
Jamie Mackay talks to Daniel Eb, Tom Martin, Tracy Brown, and Winston Peters.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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Speaker 3 (00:27):
GNA and good Morning New Zealand. I'm Jamie McKay. This
is the best of the country. It's brought to you
by Rabobank. We're growing a better New Zealand together. No
time to waste because today is going to be a
busy day and a great day, hopefully for the All Blacks.
Can they defend that wonderful record at Fortress Eden Park
against the Irish. We're going to kick off the show
today with Daniel Ebb, Deputy Leader of the Opportunity Party.
(00:50):
Him and I go back a long way because he's
been in a rural pr for quite a while. He
denied their Assenter Left Party and we agreed to disagree
over the Universal Income and land Taxtac's no good at
all for farmers or the productive sector if you ask me. Farmer.
Tom Martin, a UK correspondent, caught up with them on Tuesday,
ahead of obviously that football World Cup semi. I asked
(01:13):
him of football's coming home. He hoped it might, but
it didn't. But they've got other problems over there as well,
including a heatwave, drought, low yields and poor prices for
arable farmers. Tracy Brown share of dairy and zed looking
at some of the squeezed margins for dairy farmers. Plus,
following her recent trip to Ireland talking of the Irish,
(01:33):
we compared cows and countries and there's no show without
punch here on the country. The gloves came off on Thursday,
show Winston Peters to wrap the best of the country, the.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
Best of the country with Rubboback.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Choose the bank with one hundred and twenty years global
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Speaker 3 (01:56):
Well, this is a really interesting story, isn't it. The
latest in Z poll out suggesting that if the Opportunity
Party was to get past five percent and they're currently
sitting at four point seven percent, we could get a
change of government to tell us more. Opportunity Party Deputy
leader a bloke with the rural background pr expert Daniel Ebb. Daniel,
(02:20):
We've doubt over the years through many things. Now I'm
talking to you as a potential minister in a labor government.
Speaker 4 (02:29):
Yeah, you put it like that, It sounds a little
bit startling, doesn't it.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
Well, you didn't bite when I threw out a potential
minister in a labor government.
Speaker 4 (02:37):
Oh than a labor government. Listen, we're a centrist party, mate.
There's a reason that I've decided to put on hold
all the sort of open farms, the agwork I've done
over the last couple of years because New Zealand's sort
of found itself in quite a tribal place when it
comes to politics. You've kind of got this sort of
(02:57):
pendulum that swings between rightly government to build stuff and
then a left Guinean government comes in and wrecks it
up for the next couple of years. And so we're
not really moving forward. We're kind of just swinging from
side to side. And so I can understand why some
people saying, oh, you go with the left no, other
people saying, we go with the right as the opportunity party.
But we're not standing to solidify either of those blocks.
(03:21):
We're standing to be a actual constructive centrist partner that
can work with both of those.
Speaker 3 (03:26):
Well, let's be honest. You want to cut hang on, Daniel,
you want to cut Winston Peter's lunch. You guys want
to be the king maker. What surprises me so much?
And I know you're very smart at your job and
pr and you must be doing a good job because
you advertise, for God's sake, for a leader. You get
this young businesswoman who is your new leader. All of
(03:48):
a sudden, you're nudging the five percent threshold. It's like
you're the party political flavor of the month. What have
you actually done to deserve it?
Speaker 4 (03:56):
Fair core mate, Well, there's a lot in that. So
to your first question, and yes, we are trying to
displace New Zealand first as the centrist party. I would
argue that they are no longer capable of being an
effective centrist party because they're clearly aligned to the rights,
and so it's important that we have political stability, like
(04:17):
the schooling systems that my kid is going to, the
infrastructure systems that I drive to work every day, the plumbing,
all that kind of stuff. All that stuff was kind
of generally built in the sixties and seventies and eighties
at a time when we had a profound sense of
political stability. We've lost that now, and as a result,
we've kind of lost our way as a country. And
so we think that the ability to operate as a
(04:38):
constructive centrist partner that can hold both labor and national
to account is really really important in order that we
build the education systems and the pipes of the infrastructure
that my kids are going to grow up in. So, yeah,
we think we do need a centrist partner that can
work really really well with you.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
Yeah, okay, Well what about the voodoo economics? And that's
what I'd call it, a universal basic income, universal wage?
Why are we bothering with that? How does that make
economic sense? Where's the incentive to get off your backside
and go and work and get ahead.
Speaker 4 (05:10):
Sure, so at nineteen grand a year, it's very difficult
to live on the citizen's income. It's not designed to
be a wage that everyone can use and knock out
and work. There is the data that we've seen from
trials overseas tell the opposite story. It gives people a
sense of security. You know. I've had some illness in
(05:32):
my family recently, so I had to step back from work.
But it wasn't enough to sort of go on to
a benefit or anything like that. I just needed three
months I could look after family members. But that is
a part of the world that we live in now,
and increasingly we need a social welfare system that can
handle massive job losses when AI kicks in, that can
handle economic shocks. The problem we've got right now with
(05:54):
our social benefit system is that it's incredibly complicated and
full of bureaucracy, Like you're going to more time on
the phone to wins saying, oh, my girlfriend stayed at
my house only two nights last week, so do I
still get the accommodation supplements. That's not an effective efficient system.
If we're going to do social welfare, let's write it
into code instead of having several thousand ministry.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
Yeah, that sounds fun and practice, Daniel ab, But who's
paying for this?
Speaker 5 (06:22):
So what do you pay for it?
Speaker 4 (06:23):
We put the citizens income with a land value tax,
so our tax reset is basically two mechanisms for that
work in tandem. The citizens income ensures that we that
every key we get to the security and stability they
need in order to contribute to society, and we pay
for that by kind of throttling land value in New Zealand.
(06:44):
That's sort of the second fundamental problem that we're trying
to address is that we've put all of our capital
into massively overinflated land prices, and so with our land
value tax which you mentioned one point seventy five percent
on residential land, zero point five percent on rural land,
that creates sort of the ability to shift capital from
(07:05):
land to people, which we think is really important going forward.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
I want to talk about your background. I think you
grew up on a farm in Northland.
Speaker 4 (07:15):
Grew up Yes, I was really lucky. I had a
really special upbringing, I think a really unique one. I
was both sort of suburban and rural, so I'd be
in Auckland during the weeks and then go up to
the family farm on weekend, so I'd be sort of
pitching journo's my mum's communications business, and then going banging
fence post with dad on the weekend. So I'm considering
(07:35):
myself pretty lucky to have that.
Speaker 3 (07:37):
You realize that a center left government with the Greens
having a big say and it could be the death
now for farming in this country. Does that not worry you?
Speaker 4 (07:46):
I don't think that kind of rhetoric is that helpful?
Speaker 3 (07:49):
You know, well, well, what aking on I'm going to
hold pull you up on that. Why is it not helpful?
We know what the Green's policies are they and I'm
not saying they would get them through. I'm hoping that
Labour would have enough sense to forge their own policies.
I'm still waiting for some of their policies. At least
you guys have got some. But tell me what's going
to be good about a center left government for New
Zealand farmers.
Speaker 4 (08:10):
Well, I won't defend the Green's policies, so they're undefensible. Yeah,
I won't talk to their policies. I'll only talk now.
Speaker 3 (08:19):
You agree with me on that one. Yeah, But I
mean all this playing king maker and we're a centrist party,
we're going to go either way. That's bollocks, Daniel. You
and I both know that there's only one way the
Opportunity Party is going to go if you get past
five percent, and that is in coalition with Labor, which,
(08:39):
if we're to believe the current pulse, would swing the
pendulum in favor of a center left government.
Speaker 4 (08:46):
I can understand where you're coming from, mate, I can
understand that. But New Zealand does not need another party
added to the left block. It does not need another
party added to the right block. Like all of us
have come from startup businesses. We've got families. Why we
go through the ringer of politics just to add to
the problem. And so you know, there's lots of different
(09:10):
things in our country that need more stability added to it.
Farming is one of them. Environmental protection is another, long
term infrastructure development, a superannuation plan that actually acknowledges that
we are on a fiscal you know, we're heading towards
a fiscal cliff. Those things are sacrificing because we haven't
got a party that can work with both sides. And
so I take this to the bank right now. We
(09:33):
will not pick a side. It's important that we can
retain the ability to both work with national and both
work and work with labor. You know, we've made it
very clear that we will start negotiations with the party
with the largest vote share after the election because we
think that delivers more stable.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
Well, which will we labor.
Speaker 5 (09:55):
We don't know what the.
Speaker 4 (09:55):
Polling says that right now, it's what three four percent
in it?
Speaker 5 (09:59):
Who know?
Speaker 3 (10:00):
Just to finish on daniel leb and I do appreciate
your time. I don't agree with the citizen's income, I
don't agree with the land value text but you've got
three major policy platforms, and I totally agree with your
third one compulsory key we saver. And it would appear
to me that there seems to be a bit of
a bipartisan approach right across the political spectrum for us
(10:21):
to do this as a nation.
Speaker 4 (10:23):
Yeah, there absolutely is this bipartisan approach to QE. Say,
with this now bipartisan approach to solar and residential bills,
we're sort of getting to some diparts an approach on infrastructure.
So our big question is why isn't it happening? Why
have we not got a thirty year intergenerational infrastructure plan,
Why do we not have a ten year cross party
(10:46):
health plan? These things are required. You know, you look
at places like Singapore, right, you know, they are who
they are as a nation, and they are where they
are because they've had decades of political stability. That's the
fundamental issue that we're trying to solve as a party.
You know, I love our policies. Our policies are great,
but really what we need is a constructive centrist player
(11:08):
that can sit labor and national down and say, hey,
you too, sign up to an intergenerational infrastructure plan. Let's
agree on how we're going to treat superannuation for the
next thirty forty to fifty years. We cannot move forward
as a country until we've got those things. And so
I appreciate you saying, oh, we're just going to be
a lefty party all that kind of stuff, but that's
not what we're standing for because that's not what New
(11:28):
Zealand needs.
Speaker 3 (11:29):
I can agree on the latter. Daniel eb Deputy Leader
of the Opportunity Party. It's going to be a fascinating
run into that November seven election. We will keep in touch.
Speaker 4 (11:37):
Thanks for your time, Noaurris, thanks mate.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
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Speaker 3 (11:58):
Can I New Zealand? Morning, New Zealand. I'm Jamie McKay.
Thanks for joining me this morning for the Best of
the Country. It's brought to you by Rabobank. We're growing
a better New Zealand together. Interesting chat with Daniel Ebb.
Will the Opportunity Party get past five percent? Game on
if they do up?
Speaker 6 (12:15):
Next?
Speaker 3 (12:15):
Farmer Tom Martin, our UK farm and correspondent. We caught
up with them ahead of the Football World Cup semi
final that ended in tears. But they've got other things
to worry about over there as well, including a heat wave, drought,
low yields and poor prices for the arable farmers like
Tom Tracy Brown is the chair of Dairy and Z.
We had a yarn midweek about squeezed margins for dairy
(12:38):
farmers and we talked about talking about the Irish. We
talked about her recent trip to Ireland and we compared
cows and countries. Winston Peters to wrap the best of
the Country. Just a bit of a shout out for
the rabo Community Fund. If you're looking for a funding
boost for your rural community initiative, you need to apply
for the Rabobank Community Fund. Trees are now open and
(13:01):
close on August. To find out more, go to the
rabobank website rubbobank, dot co, dot nz.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
The best of the country with Rubbobank.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
Choose the bank with one hundred and twenty years global
agribusiness experience.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
Grow with Rubbobank.
Speaker 3 (13:21):
Here's a UK farming correspondent, farmer Tom Martin, social media
influencer arable farmer going through tough times with a heat
wave and drought and low prices. But let's be positive.
To start the swed chat, Tom, football's coming home. It's
coming home or is it? There's a rich irony around
the Argentina England game on Wednesday night your time. Falkland's
(13:44):
War nineteen eighty two, Hand of God with Maradonah nineteen
eighty six. A bit a needle. You can't beat that.
Speaker 5 (13:50):
That's right. There's been a bit of a chat about
raising the talks again about turning the Falklands over to well,
of course we've been there since before. I just sad
it was a country, So I don't think it's something
that we're going to be going to be raising again.
But I do hope that we give them a sound
thrashing in the semis. I mean, who knows, tremendous team,
(14:14):
but England have performed really well and they've done they've
done what it takes, you know, what it took to win.
So they found a way, I think is what Harry
came said. And I think you know that great teams
will find a way, as you know the All Blacks
fantastic team often find a way.
Speaker 3 (14:30):
Well, do you think the England will totally come to
a standstore Wednesday evening your time.
Speaker 5 (14:37):
I think it's very likely because this is the first
one that's been been a decent reasonable hour for us.
It's eight pm UK time. The previous games have been
at ten pm. We've had one at one am, we
had another one at ten pm recently, So I think
far more likely to stoke a bit of interest for
people who didn't have to stay up all night to
watch it, and.
Speaker 3 (14:58):
I'll take your mind off some of the woes that
farmers are facing. We know all about your heat wave
and your drought. You've had Wimbledon. Wimbledon's normally sometimes it
can be a rain maker for British farmers. Didn't really
come to pass this time round.
Speaker 5 (15:14):
Well, come on, Jamie, it normally has the Jamie McKay
guarantee of rain. I mean, I think I think this.
I think you've been more confident in previous years, but
it certainly hasn't come true, and certainly not in this
in the in the East, in the south of the UK,
where we desperately desperately need the rain. They're talking about
a little bit of rain coming at the end of
the week. But I don't you know it's it's it's
(15:36):
not going to help us at all.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
How is this affecting crop yields? Because I'm assuming that
some of your autumn zone crops are now coming off.
Speaker 5 (15:46):
That's right. I started the week today, the winter, the
winter sow in the autumn zone week today in fields
that look great all year. Almost a lot of crops
around here have looked fantastic, tremendous crops all year long.
And as I looked out the combined window, I looked
at a crop that should be yielding nine to ten
tons to the hectar. It looked great, and it was
(16:07):
yielding six. Now I'm really on our economics. I really
need seven and a half tons for the hectare to
break even. So it's absolutely shocking. I've been speaking to neighbors,
although it's been whispered because not many people are sharing
their yields. It's, you know, the people who typically share
their pub yields. Oh yes, I'm terribly disappointed there, and
you've got eleven tons of the hectair. They've been very
(16:29):
quiet recently, but a lot of neighbors are struggling with
wheat at the five and six tens to the hectair
mark and some even lower. It's going to be it's
going to be a critical time. There will be business
is going under, and we're under a lot of pressure
already with different tax regimes and things. It's absolutely critical.
I've got to I feel like I've said this to
you a couple of times on our calls over the years,
(16:52):
but this is a really, really tough time.
Speaker 3 (16:54):
Some Swezen's Day is coming up this week. What relevance
does that have to you weather patents? Isn't there some
old folklore around that?
Speaker 4 (17:03):
Well?
Speaker 5 (17:03):
Do you know a lot of old folklore is based
on pretty sound observation back when our forefathers had very
little else to do them consider the weather. Basically, the
beautiful little ditty basically says if it rains on since
swyin States this Wednesday, then it will rain for forty days,
(17:24):
where if it's fair on Wednesday, we'll have forty days
of fair weather. Now, the forecast was for drop of rain,
which ironically, I don't think we really want right now.
I don't think we want forty days of rain, but
I'd take a little drop of rain. But it's now
changed away. The rain stayed away and it's going to
be dry on Wednesday, So I really want half an
(17:45):
into rain overnight every night for about three nights. That'll
do me, thank you very much, Jamie.
Speaker 3 (17:48):
Well that's not too much to ask for, mind you.
There could be a bright cloud on the horizon and
the form of Andy Burnham. I think he becomes your
new Prime Minister officially next Monday or is he going
to be worse for farmers.
Speaker 5 (18:05):
One of the first things he's been talking about is
a land value capture tax. He's he's one of these people.
He's amongst the crowd that wants one to tax wealth
will converted commerce because we're losing money on the farm
and on every farm in this part of the country.
But yeah, so he could be I mean, he could
(18:28):
be an absolute disaster. Interestingly, I think I've said this before,
but a lot of the labor activists who were desperately
keen to have an election when an unelected leader became
a leader of the Conservative Party there for prime minister
has been very quiet when when when the roles reverse,
So it will be very interesting. He's a dynamic, popular leader.
(18:52):
He's a guy who seems to have a history of
getting things done let's hope he doesn't absolutely cook our
farming industry, uh for kind of some taxation victory.
Speaker 3 (19:05):
Just to finish on an interesting observation that you made,
we talked about the needle, the historic needle between England
and Argentina. Well that's nothing. That is a drop in
the ocean compared to the historic needle between England and Scotland.
And you're you're expressing disappointment, Tom Martin, that the Scotts
aren't backing your football side.
Speaker 5 (19:27):
Well, as you may well know, I'm about unity. I'm
a fierce compatitory, so I love a good contest, particularly
with an odd shape or but I can I could
even tolerate these uh these soccer these soccer types. But
what I just find really disappointing, and it's not all
Scottish people by by a long stretch, is that there
(19:49):
seems to be a certain number of people north of
the border who were passionately Mexican. About ten days ago.
They've had a flirtation in Norway, all kinds of reasons
why Scotts should support Norwegian and now all of a sudden,
a nation that was well, that was part of the
Falklands War against the Argentine's in ninety eight two Scottish
(20:12):
men died to defend the bricks in the Falklands and
now suddenly becoming massive Argentine fand I just find that
a little bit disappointing. I have to say I would
always support a Home Nation side. Dare I say, gosh,
I think even if they were playing against the All Blacks,
I think I'd despite being a big fan of the
All Blacks, I think I'd probably cheer on Wales or
(20:33):
Scotland or Ireland if they were if they're playing against
you guys.
Speaker 3 (20:37):
Farmer Tom Martin, thank you very much for your time.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
It's always a pleasure the best of the country with
Robbo Bek. Choose the bank with one.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
Hundred and twenty years global agri business experience.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
Grow with Rubbo Bek.
Speaker 3 (20:50):
Tracy Brown as a Mada Madadiry farmer and also for
her sons the chair of Deary and Zid doing a
great job. Great to catch up at field Day's Tracy
and the Primary and stur New Zealand Summit and Awards.
I want to start if I can, with the subject
I was talking to Heather Duplessy Allen about last night
on News Talk said, be doing the sums on the
(21:11):
margins and dairying. They're getting a bit squeezed.
Speaker 7 (21:15):
Yeah, they are, and we would encourage farmers to just
be caught us going into this season. Of course, you know,
cautiously optimistic because things don't move around a bit, but
there are still quite a bit of global uncertainty. As
we all know. Fonterra is just bet their forecast milk price,
so you know, we'll need to keep an eye on
(21:35):
that break even milt price. Jamie Darien's it's current number
is eight seventy nine. So as you say, with a
sort of a nine to twenty five midpoint, there's not
a lot in the for principal repayments and you know,
additional capital expenditure over and above depreciation. So people just
need to kind of be careful of that and plan well.
Speaker 3 (21:57):
See, I got a back of the envelope relation for heather,
and Google told me that the average size farms four
hundred and forty eight cows, the average production for cows
four hundred and fourteen milk solids. Stop me if I'm
wrong here, So that gives you one hundred and eighty
five thousand milk solids and with that break even milk price,
you're going to only make a surplus on the average
(22:18):
farm of eighty five thousand dollars. And I said to Heather,
that's not that much if you've got six or eight
million dollars, or maybe more if you're in the white
catto like you are invested in that dairy farm.
Speaker 5 (22:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (22:31):
Yeah, No, it is a concern, and I think the
saint to keep an eye on, particularly this season is
farm working expenses. So last year in our break even
milk price, we had five sixty five in there and
in this season four casted farm working expenses. And you
know these the actual numbers are based off the real
(22:52):
data from dairy based in the suit. In our economic survey,
I'll be predicting six nineteen. So there's a feared jump
in there, Jamie of around fifty cents, and we had
a jump of around twenty cents since twenty twenty toe
and farm working expenses, so that you know, that is
something that people are going to have to keep an
eye on and just be a junt with monitoring budgets
(23:15):
and making cautious decisions about where they spend.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
Now, Tracy, you've just recently been to Ireland South Thunder two.
Before everyone jumps up and down about junkets for dairy
en z, I think it's something to do with your
Nughfield scholarship that you didn't quite get finished, or the
trip you didn't quite get finished during COVID. I've only
been to Ireland once two thousand and three, that's twenty
three years ago. Smoking the bars was one thing that
(23:40):
I couldn't believe because we'd gone smoke free. The other
thing back then was the size of the dairy cows.
They were like houses. They were like big bulls basically,
and the average herd size was only about fifty or sixty.
I understand that numbers increased, but how does their dairy
in compare to ours.
Speaker 7 (24:00):
It's a really interesting Jamian long over Joe. As you say,
I hadn't been able to travel because of COVID up there,
so you know we do have. New Zealand has a
lot in common with the Irish, so changed quite a bit.
Speaker 8 (24:12):
Now.
Speaker 7 (24:13):
The average herd size is one hundred cows, and the
cows I think would be quite a lot smaller, more
looking like the KeyWe cow. In fact, there's a lot
of New Zealand genetics used up there, and many farmers
we visited, we're proud of the keys cows they had
in their herds, so you're quite a different looking cow.
The huge focus on grass system called pasture based islands,
(24:35):
so you know, whether you're a scientist, whether you're a farmer,
whether you're a student, where you're oral professional, everyone uses
the same database, so they've got more data points and
so increased accuracy, so they're able to sort of help
use it for productive decision making. Big focus on beef
on debty no Bobby calves, so they sort of really
(24:57):
focusing on a breeding index four beef with those calves
and buying and selling based on it. So they've done
away with the how calf looks in terms of you know,
four white socks and a white mark on its head
and all that sort of thing. It's purely on genetics.
They'd focus on training and really developing people strong farm
(25:20):
systems knowledge, and then they've really got themselves quite organized
around catchment groups.
Speaker 5 (25:25):
They've got a lot of.
Speaker 7 (25:26):
Pressure on the EU from the EU around nitrogen derogation,
so they've got whole communities in supporting farmers around and
proving water quality outcomes, so they might have ural professionals,
they've got teachers, they've got scientists, they've got farmers, students,
everybody is sort of helping improve those water quality outcomes.
(25:46):
So they've sort of looked at New Zealand what New
Zealand's doing, and then just got themselves much more coordinated
and organized quite quickly because they've got a bit of
a burning platform.
Speaker 3 (25:58):
Well, they're very comparable nation to us in many many ways.
Hopefully they're not comparable to us at Eden Park on Saturday,
we're a wee bit better than them, Tracy Brown. Look,
I'm out of time to talk about PC one another
subject for another day, but thanks for your time. Always
enjoy chatting here on the Country.
Speaker 7 (26:15):
Thanks Jamie.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
The Best of the Country with Rubbobank.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
Choose the Bank with one hundred and twenty years global
agribusiness experience, Grow with Rubbobank.
Speaker 3 (26:30):
Oh, welcome back to the Best of the Country. I'm
Jamie McKay. The show's brought to you by Rabobank. Interesting
chat with Tracy Brown, wasn't it not only about Ireland
and the size of their cows, but also the squeeze
that's going on dairy farmer's cost of production eight seventy nine,
break even price forecast milk price nine twenty five. Hopefully
that changes during the course of the season. Up next,
(26:52):
we're going to wrap it with Winston. Peter's one of
my favorite combatants here on the country. The gloves came
off on Thursday show. But I just want to get
all we reminder in about Rabobank's twenty fifty white paper
on Succession now. It was released at the PINNs Primary
Industry New Zealand Summit last month. It's called Succession twenty fifty.
(27:12):
Gearing up for New Zealand's food and agrifuture. Literally billions
of dollars will change hands in the next decade. Is
the next generation come in? The Opportunity Party would love
to tax that with their land taks, wouldn't they? So
it explores the opportunities and challenges facing New Zealand's primary
industry as we transition into the future. Find out more
at the rabobank website rubobank dot co dot nz. Winston
(27:36):
perhaps the best of the country, the.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
Best of the country with Rabobank.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
Choose the bank with one hundred and twenty years global
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Speaker 1 (27:48):
Grow with Rubbobank.
Speaker 3 (27:50):
Kicking off the country today New Zealand first leader Winston Peters.
Let's start with the serious stuff and then we'll have
an argument a wee bit later on about the Indian FTA,
as we do every time we chat. Talk to me,
mister Peters about the bird flu. How worried should we be?
Speaker 9 (28:06):
Well, I don't think we should get over worried at
this point in time. I mean, this one that's been
found pubablicly and maybe more it's sys proximbly to the
good life of this country.
Speaker 10 (28:18):
That's important.
Speaker 9 (28:19):
So let's be very careful here. But let's not overreact
and must do judgment too soon.
Speaker 3 (28:25):
So we're not facing another pandemic.
Speaker 9 (28:28):
I don't believe so well, let's hope.
Speaker 3 (28:30):
So anyhow, Okay, celebrity candidates, we've already heard about Tyane Randall,
Stu Nash. I think Stu would call himself a celebrity,
and now Michael Laws. But have you been outgunned by
the act Party bringing in Paul Henry who was quite
critical of you. If you don't mind me saying so, well, it's.
Speaker 9 (28:50):
The amateur our. That's why the fact of the matter
is that at seven pm previous night, the act Party
found out that the President was up against up again
the court again for peterphilia charges. So that's why they
dropped this one. And at this point in time, the coinstances,
the coinstence is echoing around the country. For goodness sake,
(29:12):
there's no surprises here. But as Paul Henry's going to
find out, this is a difficult job politics, and he's
going to have to learn.
Speaker 3 (29:20):
Someone who has also been getting stuck into you, as
Andrew Advance. I spent a couple of weeks in Australia,
but it was a big story while I was over there.
She got stuck into you and you got stuck into
her in return. And then there was a column from
someone this columns everywhere these days about how an eighty
year old is very cleverly using social media. Did you
(29:41):
take that as a compliment.
Speaker 9 (29:44):
And yes I did, And I took them so long
to learn that in the first place. But Andrew Advanced,
I took it to the Press Council and won because
she made a whole lot of stabments of a pulse
about the qui row and the press counselor agree with me.
But before that, you recall I've accused her and Peter
Dunn of releasing state secrets. Remember that, and Peter Dunn
lost his job. So she hates me and understand why.
(30:04):
But she used to work for News of the World.
Who the News of the World. Well they had they
were shut down for lying to the British media. That's
how bad they were. So I'm not taking your lessons
from Andrey Advance. She's bitter and twisted and I've proven it.
Speaker 3 (30:17):
Are you worried about the Opportunity Party getting past that
five percent threshold? I know you say bug of the polls,
a bit like your old mate Jim Bolger, But the
reality is if they do manage to get past five percent,
and I'm not suggesting they will, but if they did,
that would mean a change of government.
Speaker 9 (30:35):
First of all, look, the first thing I know about opportunity,
there's opportunity costs, and in this case, you've got a
hold of consultants, and consultants will send you an invoice.
It's all the hype of the mainstream media. They're trying
to prop them up, get them all the covers possible,
and so are you. When do they have a last
public meeting? Did you see it did you know what
they said? Without their manifesto, they reach what they said.
(30:58):
They haven't told you anything about what they meant. But
there are a bunch of left wingers. Sadly they'll send
everybody over sixty five destitute because they're going to have
land tax and nobody over sixty five bill to pay it.
So when they find out about this, I'm not concerned
about them, No, I'm worried about one pay in the
past called his z even.
Speaker 3 (31:14):
First universal income in a land tax that would be
crippling for many in the productive sector, and I particularly
look at farming.
Speaker 9 (31:23):
Yeah, and you and your listeners.
Speaker 3 (31:24):
So I'll tell you what are you new Zealand First
conserve us.
Speaker 9 (31:28):
If you won't be saved yet, you've got to write
God you you took a long time to get to there,
but at last you finally understood you've got one chance
to be down on the farm, and that farther in
chances is zun first.
Speaker 3 (31:40):
How did you take to be called a clown by
a former Prime minister John Key?
Speaker 5 (31:45):
Ah?
Speaker 9 (31:46):
Well, look, Paul, John, I mean you know you remember
there's the crash in Wall Street or the crash in
that two thousand and eight when all these companies went down,
and the fourth company to go down was Merrill Lynch
got bailed out by the American taxpayers. Well, John Key's
back was with them, and I said at the time,
and I don't come here and tell us what you know.
This is a fraud and Pudge and company you worked
(32:06):
for and they've been found out. And the second thing
about John Key when he talks about it there my
op quest to John Key is, mister Key, if this
deal is so good, how come by twenty fifty you
learnly grow our GDP by one tenth of one percent?
Explain that to me if you week.
Speaker 3 (32:22):
Where did you get that number from? Have you just
pulled that out of your backside?
Speaker 9 (32:26):
No, now that's the Treasury forecast. I didn't pull it
out of there. You should know this. I am astonisher here.
Speaker 4 (32:32):
I am here.
Speaker 9 (32:34):
I am on this date, all the way in the
July the sixteenth, twenty twenty six, after all these months
of December last year, they were talking about signing up
to it, and you've found out for the first time
what it's value to our economy is. I am deeply shocked.
And the people who suffered the most, of the farmers,
because they're not in having your dairy products down there,
are they? And when it comes to the other products,
(32:55):
when it comes to beef well or mutton, have a
look at the Yes, that's a the UK and other
country sales to them. Or do I say the Australian
sells them and tell you why he is so confident.
I'm astonished that you've learned to see her now that
the GDP growth will be only one ten to one
percent by twenty fifty.
Speaker 3 (33:14):
Now, yeah, I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I buy
that I spoke to and I know your good mates
with him, you were very good mates with his father.
Speaker 9 (33:22):
Yes, you say not for you buy that. I've been
saying that for days now. Has anybody refuted me? No?
The only person refuted me is you.
Speaker 3 (33:31):
Well, I don't know the numbers. I don't know if
you've just made them up and trying to pull the
wall over my eyes.
Speaker 9 (33:35):
If I'd have made them up there to be refuted me,
wouldn't they.
Speaker 7 (33:39):
In?
Speaker 3 (33:40):
Okay, let me go back to Todd McKay and I
know he's a mate of yours and you get along
well with them. This is what he had to say yesterday.
It's only a twenty second clip on the twenty billion
dollar investment. Listen to this, the twenty billion dollar investment.
Is it an investment or is it an aspirational target?
Speaker 10 (33:57):
It's an aspirational target to promote investment. That has taken
our commitment to promote investment, and it is very clear
in the legislation it has written down. Lawyers on both
sides scrutinize that our responsibility is to promote it is
not to invest.
Speaker 3 (34:12):
So what do you say about that? What do you
say an answer to that?
Speaker 9 (34:15):
Stop playing with words. The reality is that I've been
saying for a long time, what this thirty three billion
US that New Zealand dollars will cost us into the
Indian economy? And here comes money. He's coming over he's
got a high commission here, that's seen all the controversy.
He gets over here, and he still said what he said,
because that's the way they've read it and going it
(34:37):
cost us if we don't match up with what we promised.
That's the reality of it.
Speaker 3 (34:41):
But why wouldn't Why wouldn't we, Winston Peters invest in
an economy that is a marketplace of one point four
billion and growing daily.
Speaker 9 (34:50):
We would because we're not stupid. We should be investing
in a country called New Zealand, not a country called India.
Speaker 5 (34:56):
For goodness, Well, what's wrong with you?
Speaker 9 (34:59):
Men? What I can see why you vote in the
National Partic is that.
Speaker 3 (35:03):
Global You don't know who I vote for. I could
be a New Zealand first voter if it wasn't for
your stance on the FDA. Also, Todd McClay had this
to say about immigration. Hey, what about the unfettered migration
that he's banging on.
Speaker 10 (35:18):
About selection year? He's absolutely completely one thousand percent wrong.
One six hundred and seventy skilled workers per year could
come to New Zealand. They're only allowed to stay for
three years and they have to go home. They can't
reapply on that same visa for another three years.
Speaker 3 (35:35):
So there you go. You're a one thousand percent wrong.
Speaker 9 (35:37):
Now what's wrong with that is if I'm wrong, then
why is Mody and Goyal, the Trade Minister for India
and their communications ministries? Why are they all wrong? They're
all saying what I'm saying. How come that all of
a sudden you got this contract where the Indian's got
it all wrong In sales Winster Veters and the National
Party has got it all right. Excuse me, this is
(35:59):
not our first, not.
Speaker 3 (36:01):
Your first rodeo. Why did you say? Why did you
seen Mark Patterson, your wall guy, over to in there?
Isn't that a bit two faced?
Speaker 9 (36:09):
No, not too face. We've been working on exporting the
wall all around the world since we've got the job,
and Mike's done a fantastic job. And there I said,
if you go to their Indian new Parliament, the carpet
is magnificent carve it is provided by New Zealand. This
is nothing to do with this. I mean, this is
the kind of deal we talked about, getting out there
and trading properly, but making it up and manifesting it
(36:31):
as the Prime Minister has while he subserviently bows down
to an Indian culture in New Zealand was just breathtaking.
How could we possibly be proud of what he did?
I mean, the salutations and secretness of the Prime Minister's
behavior when many principles here was just breathtaking. And you
know it.
Speaker 3 (36:50):
Would you have held hands with Mody?
Speaker 2 (36:52):
No?
Speaker 9 (36:53):
I wouldn't have because I'm godlongto my own culture and
I've set another country to come here and respect Mike
culture when I'm here, That's not the way. It's your behave.
Speaker 3 (37:01):
Hey, Winston Peter's thanks for your time. I could argue
all day with you, but I haven't got that time.
Good luck for your national conferences this weekend, isn't it
it is? Is it true that you need a gold
card to get in?
Speaker 9 (37:12):
You've only a gold card to get in, but you'll
need to beget early because I tell you why. It
will be war to war. Unlike other parties they kind
of get and put it down telephone booth.
Speaker 4 (37:21):
Together.
Speaker 3 (37:22):
Only New Zealand First can save this. Thanks for your time,
okay man, cheers.
Speaker 1 (37:26):
Love the best of the Country with Robbobank.
Speaker 2 (37:29):
Choose the bank with one hundred and twenty years global
agribusiness experience.
Speaker 1 (37:33):
Grow with Rubbobank.
Speaker 3 (37:38):
Winston Peter's wrapping the best of the Country. Good morning.
My name's Jamie Mackay. The show is brought to you
by Rabobank. We're growing a better New Zealand together. Do
you realize it's thirty two years and fifteen days since
we lost at Eden Park when the French scored the
tribe from the end of the Earth on July to third,
nineteen ninety four. Let's hope history doesn't repeat itself. Tonight,
(38:00):
catch you back next Saturday morning. Gonna leave you with
a great Irish song.
Speaker 11 (38:28):
Wal I'm small, don't think that.
Speaker 6 (39:02):
Just don't let John dort.
Speaker 8 (39:07):
I'll come on, and no, I said, gets up time,
(39:29):
so said to them, but.
Speaker 11 (39:37):
Your plants.
Speaker 8 (39:48):
This joke.
Speaker 3 (39:54):
Oh I spell, I'll.
Speaker 11 (39:57):
Come on, lesson ta.
Speaker 12 (40:02):
So I dress bending as I come on, lessing, I
come on, dress music MEAs.
Speaker 1 (40:13):
I come on in, I'll come on, come on.
Speaker 6 (40:25):
Right, come on right?
Speaker 11 (40:30):
Road has your road?
Speaker 1 (40:34):
Oh Sam, come on on the.
Speaker 6 (40:44):
Road, the same road together. It's rather, I says, Oh.
Speaker 12 (41:01):
I swear at the schools proms.
Speaker 6 (41:11):
Do I come on?
Speaker 8 (41:15):
Come on?
Speaker 11 (41:16):
Oh I swear at the
Speaker 6 (41:19):
School Oh my god, Don
The best of the country with Rabobank.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
Choose the bank with one hundred and twenty years global
agribusiness experience.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Grow with Rubbobak.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
GNA and good Morning New Zealand. I'm Jamie McKay. This
is the best of the country. It's brought to you
by Rabobank. We're growing a better New Zealand together. No
time to waste because today is going to be a
busy day and a great day, hopefully for the All Blacks.
Can they defend that wonderful record at Fortress Eden Park
against the Irish. We're going to kick off the show
today with Daniel Ebb, Deputy Leader of the Opportunity Party.
(00:50):
Him and I go back a long way because he's
been in a rural pr for quite a while. He
denied their Assenter Left Party and we agreed to disagree
over the Universal Income and land Taxtac's no good at
all for farmers or the productive sector if you ask me. Farmer.
Tom Martin, a UK correspondent, caught up with them on Tuesday,
ahead of obviously that football World Cup semi. I asked
(01:13):
him of football's coming home. He hoped it might, but
it didn't. But they've got other problems over there as well,
including a heatwave, drought, low yields and poor prices for
arable farmers. Tracy Brown share of dairy and zed looking
at some of the squeezed margins for dairy farmers. Plus,
following her recent trip to Ireland talking of the Irish,
(01:33):
we compared cows and countries and there's no show without
punch here on the country. The gloves came off on Thursday,
show Winston Peters to wrap the best of the country, the.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
Best of the country with Rubboback.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Choose the bank with one hundred and twenty years global
agribusiness experience grow with rubber bag.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
Well, this is a really interesting story, isn't it. The
latest in Z poll out suggesting that if the Opportunity
Party was to get past five percent and they're currently
sitting at four point seven percent, we could get a
change of government to tell us more. Opportunity Party Deputy
leader a bloke with the rural background pr expert Daniel Ebb. Daniel,
(02:20):
We've doubt over the years through many things. Now I'm
talking to you as a potential minister in a labor government.
Speaker 4 (02:29):
Yeah, you put it like that, It sounds a little
bit startling, doesn't it.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
Well, you didn't bite when I threw out a potential
minister in a labor government.
Speaker 4 (02:37):
Oh than a labor government. Listen, we're a centrist party, mate.
There's a reason that I've decided to put on hold
all the sort of open farms, the agwork I've done
over the last couple of years because New Zealand's sort
of found itself in quite a tribal place when it
comes to politics. You've kind of got this sort of
(02:57):
pendulum that swings between rightly government to build stuff and
then a left Guinean government comes in and wrecks it
up for the next couple of years. And so we're
not really moving forward. We're kind of just swinging from
side to side. And so I can understand why some
people saying, oh, you go with the left no, other
people saying, we go with the right as the opportunity party.
But we're not standing to solidify either of those blocks.
(03:21):
We're standing to be a actual constructive centrist partner that
can work with both of those.
Speaker 3 (03:26):
Well, let's be honest. You want to cut hang on, Daniel,
you want to cut Winston Peter's lunch. You guys want
to be the king maker. What surprises me so much?
And I know you're very smart at your job and
pr and you must be doing a good job because
you advertise, for God's sake, for a leader. You get
this young businesswoman who is your new leader. All of
(03:48):
a sudden, you're nudging the five percent threshold. It's like
you're the party political flavor of the month. What have
you actually done to deserve it?
Speaker 4 (03:56):
Fair core mate, Well, there's a lot in that. So
to your first question, and yes, we are trying to
displace New Zealand first as the centrist party. I would
argue that they are no longer capable of being an
effective centrist party because they're clearly aligned to the rights,
and so it's important that we have political stability, like
(04:17):
the schooling systems that my kid is going to, the
infrastructure systems that I drive to work every day, the plumbing,
all that kind of stuff. All that stuff was kind
of generally built in the sixties and seventies and eighties
at a time when we had a profound sense of
political stability. We've lost that now, and as a result,
we've kind of lost our way as a country. And
so we think that the ability to operate as a
(04:38):
constructive centrist partner that can hold both labor and national
to account is really really important in order that we
build the education systems and the pipes of the infrastructure
that my kids are going to grow up in. So, yeah,
we think we do need a centrist partner that can
work really really well with you.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
Yeah, okay, Well what about the voodoo economics? And that's
what I'd call it, a universal basic income, universal wage?
Why are we bothering with that? How does that make
economic sense? Where's the incentive to get off your backside
and go and work and get ahead.
Speaker 4 (05:10):
Sure, so at nineteen grand a year, it's very difficult
to live on the citizen's income. It's not designed to
be a wage that everyone can use and knock out
and work. There is the data that we've seen from
trials overseas tell the opposite story. It gives people a
sense of security. You know. I've had some illness in
(05:32):
my family recently, so I had to step back from work.
But it wasn't enough to sort of go on to
a benefit or anything like that. I just needed three
months I could look after family members. But that is
a part of the world that we live in now,
and increasingly we need a social welfare system that can
handle massive job losses when AI kicks in, that can
handle economic shocks. The problem we've got right now with
(05:54):
our social benefit system is that it's incredibly complicated and
full of bureaucracy, Like you're going to more time on
the phone to wins saying, oh, my girlfriend stayed at
my house only two nights last week, so do I
still get the accommodation supplements. That's not an effective efficient system.
If we're going to do social welfare, let's write it
into code instead of having several thousand ministry.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
Yeah, that sounds fun and practice, Daniel ab, But who's
paying for this?
Speaker 5 (06:22):
So what do you pay for it?
Speaker 4 (06:23):
We put the citizens income with a land value tax,
so our tax reset is basically two mechanisms for that
work in tandem. The citizens income ensures that we that
every key we get to the security and stability they
need in order to contribute to society, and we pay
for that by kind of throttling land value in New Zealand.
(06:44):
That's sort of the second fundamental problem that we're trying
to address is that we've put all of our capital
into massively overinflated land prices, and so with our land
value tax which you mentioned one point seventy five percent
on residential land, zero point five percent on rural land,
that creates sort of the ability to shift capital from
(07:05):
land to people, which we think is really important going forward.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
I want to talk about your background. I think you
grew up on a farm in Northland.
Speaker 4 (07:15):
Grew up Yes, I was really lucky. I had a
really special upbringing, I think a really unique one. I
was both sort of suburban and rural, so I'd be
in Auckland during the weeks and then go up to
the family farm on weekend, so I'd be sort of
pitching journo's my mum's communications business, and then going banging
fence post with dad on the weekend. So I'm considering
(07:35):
myself pretty lucky to have that.
Speaker 3 (07:37):
You realize that a center left government with the Greens
having a big say and it could be the death
now for farming in this country. Does that not worry you?
Speaker 4 (07:46):
I don't think that kind of rhetoric is that helpful?
Speaker 3 (07:49):
You know, well, well, what aking on I'm going to
hold pull you up on that. Why is it not helpful?
We know what the Green's policies are they and I'm
not saying they would get them through. I'm hoping that
Labour would have enough sense to forge their own policies.
I'm still waiting for some of their policies. At least
you guys have got some. But tell me what's going
to be good about a center left government for New
Zealand farmers.
Speaker 4 (08:10):
Well, I won't defend the Green's policies, so they're undefensible. Yeah,
I won't talk to their policies. I'll only talk now.
Speaker 3 (08:19):
You agree with me on that one. Yeah, But I
mean all this playing king maker and we're a centrist party,
we're going to go either way. That's bollocks, Daniel. You
and I both know that there's only one way the
Opportunity Party is going to go if you get past
five percent, and that is in coalition with Labor, which,
(08:39):
if we're to believe the current pulse, would swing the
pendulum in favor of a center left government.
Speaker 4 (08:46):
I can understand where you're coming from, mate, I can
understand that. But New Zealand does not need another party
added to the left block. It does not need another
party added to the right block. Like all of us
have come from startup businesses. We've got families. Why we
go through the ringer of politics just to add to
the problem. And so you know, there's lots of different
(09:10):
things in our country that need more stability added to it.
Farming is one of them. Environmental protection is another, long
term infrastructure development, a superannuation plan that actually acknowledges that
we are on a fiscal you know, we're heading towards
a fiscal cliff. Those things are sacrificing because we haven't
got a party that can work with both sides. And
so I take this to the bank right now. We
(09:33):
will not pick a side. It's important that we can
retain the ability to both work with national and both
work and work with labor. You know, we've made it
very clear that we will start negotiations with the party
with the largest vote share after the election because we
think that delivers more stable.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
Well, which will we labor.
Speaker 5 (09:55):
We don't know what the.
Speaker 4 (09:55):
Polling says that right now, it's what three four percent
in it?
Speaker 5 (09:59):
Who know?
Speaker 3 (10:00):
Just to finish on daniel leb and I do appreciate
your time. I don't agree with the citizen's income, I
don't agree with the land value text but you've got
three major policy platforms, and I totally agree with your
third one compulsory key we saver. And it would appear
to me that there seems to be a bit of
a bipartisan approach right across the political spectrum for us
(10:21):
to do this as a nation.
Speaker 4 (10:23):
Yeah, there absolutely is this bipartisan approach to QE. Say,
with this now bipartisan approach to solar and residential bills,
we're sort of getting to some diparts an approach on infrastructure.
So our big question is why isn't it happening? Why
have we not got a thirty year intergenerational infrastructure plan,
Why do we not have a ten year cross party
(10:46):
health plan? These things are required. You know, you look
at places like Singapore, right, you know, they are who
they are as a nation, and they are where they
are because they've had decades of political stability. That's the
fundamental issue that we're trying to solve as a party.
You know, I love our policies. Our policies are great,
but really what we need is a constructive centrist player
(11:08):
that can sit labor and national down and say, hey,
you too, sign up to an intergenerational infrastructure plan. Let's
agree on how we're going to treat superannuation for the
next thirty forty to fifty years. We cannot move forward
as a country until we've got those things. And so
I appreciate you saying, oh, we're just going to be
a lefty party all that kind of stuff, but that's
not what we're standing for because that's not what New
(11:28):
Zealand needs.
Speaker 3 (11:29):
I can agree on the latter. Daniel eb Deputy Leader
of the Opportunity Party. It's going to be a fascinating
run into that November seven election. We will keep in touch.
Speaker 4 (11:37):
Thanks for your time, Noaurris, thanks mate.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
The best of the Country with Rubbobak Choose the bank
with one hundred and twenty years global agribusiness experience.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
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Speaker 3 (11:58):
Can I New Zealand? Morning, New Zealand. I'm Jamie McKay.
Thanks for joining me this morning for the Best of
the Country. It's brought to you by Rabobank. We're growing
a better New Zealand together. Interesting chat with Daniel Ebb.
Will the Opportunity Party get past five percent? Game on
if they do up?
Speaker 6 (12:15):
Next?
Speaker 3 (12:15):
Farmer Tom Martin, our UK farm and correspondent. We caught
up with them ahead of the Football World Cup semi
final that ended in tears. But they've got other things
to worry about over there as well, including a heat wave, drought,
low yields and poor prices for the arable farmers like
Tom Tracy Brown is the chair of Dairy and Z.
We had a yarn midweek about squeezed margins for dairy
(12:38):
farmers and we talked about talking about the Irish. We
talked about her recent trip to Ireland and we compared
cows and countries. Winston Peters to wrap the best of
the Country. Just a bit of a shout out for
the rabo Community Fund. If you're looking for a funding
boost for your rural community initiative, you need to apply
for the Rabobank Community Fund. Trees are now open and
(13:01):
close on August. To find out more, go to the
rabobank website rubbobank, dot co, dot nz.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
The best of the country with Rubbobank.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
Choose the bank with one hundred and twenty years global
agribusiness experience.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
Grow with Rubbobank.
Speaker 3 (13:21):
Here's a UK farming correspondent, farmer Tom Martin, social media
influencer arable farmer going through tough times with a heat
wave and drought and low prices. But let's be positive.
To start the swed chat, Tom, football's coming home. It's
coming home or is it? There's a rich irony around
the Argentina England game on Wednesday night your time. Falkland's
(13:44):
War nineteen eighty two, Hand of God with Maradonah nineteen
eighty six. A bit a needle. You can't beat that.
Speaker 5 (13:50):
That's right. There's been a bit of a chat about
raising the talks again about turning the Falklands over to well,
of course we've been there since before. I just sad
it was a country, So I don't think it's something
that we're going to be going to be raising again.
But I do hope that we give them a sound
thrashing in the semis. I mean, who knows, tremendous team,
(14:14):
but England have performed really well and they've done they've
done what it takes, you know, what it took to win.
So they found a way, I think is what Harry
came said. And I think you know that great teams
will find a way, as you know the All Blacks
fantastic team often find a way.
Speaker 3 (14:30):
Well, do you think the England will totally come to
a standstore Wednesday evening your time.
Speaker 5 (14:37):
I think it's very likely because this is the first
one that's been been a decent reasonable hour for us.
It's eight pm UK time. The previous games have been
at ten pm. We've had one at one am, we
had another one at ten pm recently, So I think
far more likely to stoke a bit of interest for
people who didn't have to stay up all night to
watch it, and.
Speaker 3 (14:58):
I'll take your mind off some of the woes that
farmers are facing. We know all about your heat wave
and your drought. You've had Wimbledon. Wimbledon's normally sometimes it
can be a rain maker for British farmers. Didn't really
come to pass this time round.
Speaker 5 (15:14):
Well, come on, Jamie, it normally has the Jamie McKay
guarantee of rain. I mean, I think I think this.
I think you've been more confident in previous years, but
it certainly hasn't come true, and certainly not in this
in the in the East, in the south of the UK,
where we desperately desperately need the rain. They're talking about
a little bit of rain coming at the end of
the week. But I don't you know it's it's it's
(15:36):
not going to help us at all.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
How is this affecting crop yields? Because I'm assuming that
some of your autumn zone crops are now coming off.
Speaker 5 (15:46):
That's right. I started the week today, the winter, the
winter sow in the autumn zone week today in fields
that look great all year. Almost a lot of crops
around here have looked fantastic, tremendous crops all year long.
And as I looked out the combined window, I looked
at a crop that should be yielding nine to ten
tons to the hectar. It looked great, and it was
(16:07):
yielding six. Now I'm really on our economics. I really
need seven and a half tons for the hectare to
break even. So it's absolutely shocking. I've been speaking to neighbors,
although it's been whispered because not many people are sharing
their yields. It's, you know, the people who typically share
their pub yields. Oh yes, I'm terribly disappointed there, and
you've got eleven tons of the hectair. They've been very
(16:29):
quiet recently, but a lot of neighbors are struggling with
wheat at the five and six tens to the hectair
mark and some even lower. It's going to be it's
going to be a critical time. There will be business
is going under, and we're under a lot of pressure
already with different tax regimes and things. It's absolutely critical.
I've got to I feel like I've said this to
you a couple of times on our calls over the years,
(16:52):
but this is a really, really tough time.
Speaker 3 (16:54):
Some Swezen's Day is coming up this week. What relevance
does that have to you weather patents? Isn't there some
old folklore around that?
Speaker 4 (17:03):
Well?
Speaker 5 (17:03):
Do you know a lot of old folklore is based
on pretty sound observation back when our forefathers had very
little else to do them consider the weather. Basically, the
beautiful little ditty basically says if it rains on since
swyin States this Wednesday, then it will rain for forty days,
(17:24):
where if it's fair on Wednesday, we'll have forty days
of fair weather. Now, the forecast was for drop of rain,
which ironically, I don't think we really want right now.
I don't think we want forty days of rain, but
I'd take a little drop of rain. But it's now
changed away. The rain stayed away and it's going to
be dry on Wednesday, So I really want half an
(17:45):
into rain overnight every night for about three nights. That'll
do me, thank you very much, Jamie.
Speaker 3 (17:48):
Well that's not too much to ask for, mind you.
There could be a bright cloud on the horizon and
the form of Andy Burnham. I think he becomes your
new Prime Minister officially next Monday or is he going
to be worse for farmers.
Speaker 5 (18:05):
One of the first things he's been talking about is
a land value capture tax. He's he's one of these people.
He's amongst the crowd that wants one to tax wealth
will converted commerce because we're losing money on the farm
and on every farm in this part of the country.
But yeah, so he could be I mean, he could
(18:28):
be an absolute disaster. Interestingly, I think I've said this before,
but a lot of the labor activists who were desperately
keen to have an election when an unelected leader became
a leader of the Conservative Party there for prime minister
has been very quiet when when when the roles reverse,
So it will be very interesting. He's a dynamic, popular leader.
(18:52):
He's a guy who seems to have a history of
getting things done let's hope he doesn't absolutely cook our
farming industry, uh for kind of some taxation victory.
Speaker 3 (19:05):
Just to finish on an interesting observation that you made,
we talked about the needle, the historic needle between England
and Argentina. Well that's nothing. That is a drop in
the ocean compared to the historic needle between England and Scotland.
And you're you're expressing disappointment, Tom Martin, that the Scotts
aren't backing your football side.
Speaker 5 (19:27):
Well, as you may well know, I'm about unity. I'm
a fierce compatitory, so I love a good contest, particularly
with an odd shape or but I can I could
even tolerate these uh these soccer these soccer types. But
what I just find really disappointing, and it's not all
Scottish people by by a long stretch, is that there
(19:49):
seems to be a certain number of people north of
the border who were passionately Mexican. About ten days ago.
They've had a flirtation in Norway, all kinds of reasons
why Scotts should support Norwegian and now all of a sudden,
a nation that was well, that was part of the
Falklands War against the Argentine's in ninety eight two Scottish
(20:12):
men died to defend the bricks in the Falklands and
now suddenly becoming massive Argentine fand I just find that
a little bit disappointing. I have to say I would
always support a Home Nation side. Dare I say, gosh,
I think even if they were playing against the All Blacks,
I think I'd despite being a big fan of the
All Blacks, I think I'd probably cheer on Wales or
(20:33):
Scotland or Ireland if they were if they're playing against
you guys.
Speaker 3 (20:37):
Farmer Tom Martin, thank you very much for your time.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
It's always a pleasure the best of the country with
Robbo Bek. Choose the bank with one.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
Hundred and twenty years global agri business experience.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
Grow with Rubbo Bek.
Speaker 3 (20:50):
Tracy Brown as a Mada Madadiry farmer and also for
her sons the chair of Deary and Zid doing a
great job. Great to catch up at field Day's Tracy
and the Primary and stur New Zealand Summit and Awards.
I want to start if I can, with the subject
I was talking to Heather Duplessy Allen about last night
on News Talk said, be doing the sums on the
(21:11):
margins and dairying. They're getting a bit squeezed.
Speaker 7 (21:15):
Yeah, they are, and we would encourage farmers to just
be caught us going into this season. Of course, you know,
cautiously optimistic because things don't move around a bit, but
there are still quite a bit of global uncertainty. As
we all know. Fonterra is just bet their forecast milk price,
so you know, we'll need to keep an eye on
(21:35):
that break even milt price. Jamie Darien's it's current number
is eight seventy nine. So as you say, with a
sort of a nine to twenty five midpoint, there's not
a lot in the for principal repayments and you know,
additional capital expenditure over and above depreciation. So people just
need to kind of be careful of that and plan well.
Speaker 3 (21:57):
See, I got a back of the envelope relation for heather,
and Google told me that the average size farms four
hundred and forty eight cows, the average production for cows
four hundred and fourteen milk solids. Stop me if I'm
wrong here, So that gives you one hundred and eighty
five thousand milk solids and with that break even milk price,
you're going to only make a surplus on the average
(22:18):
farm of eighty five thousand dollars. And I said to Heather,
that's not that much if you've got six or eight
million dollars, or maybe more if you're in the white
catto like you are invested in that dairy farm.
Speaker 5 (22:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (22:31):
Yeah, No, it is a concern, and I think the
saint to keep an eye on, particularly this season is
farm working expenses. So last year in our break even
milk price, we had five sixty five in there and
in this season four casted farm working expenses. And you
know these the actual numbers are based off the real
(22:52):
data from dairy based in the suit. In our economic survey,
I'll be predicting six nineteen. So there's a feared jump
in there, Jamie of around fifty cents, and we had
a jump of around twenty cents since twenty twenty toe
and farm working expenses, so that you know, that is
something that people are going to have to keep an
eye on and just be a junt with monitoring budgets
(23:15):
and making cautious decisions about where they spend.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
Now, Tracy, you've just recently been to Ireland South Thunder two.
Before everyone jumps up and down about junkets for dairy
en z, I think it's something to do with your
Nughfield scholarship that you didn't quite get finished, or the
trip you didn't quite get finished during COVID. I've only
been to Ireland once two thousand and three, that's twenty
three years ago. Smoking the bars was one thing that
(23:40):
I couldn't believe because we'd gone smoke free. The other
thing back then was the size of the dairy cows.
They were like houses. They were like big bulls basically,
and the average herd size was only about fifty or sixty.
I understand that numbers increased, but how does their dairy
in compare to ours.
Speaker 7 (24:00):
It's a really interesting Jamian long over Joe. As you say,
I hadn't been able to travel because of COVID up there,
so you know we do have. New Zealand has a
lot in common with the Irish, so changed quite a bit.
Speaker 8 (24:12):
Now.
Speaker 7 (24:13):
The average herd size is one hundred cows, and the
cows I think would be quite a lot smaller, more
looking like the KeyWe cow. In fact, there's a lot
of New Zealand genetics used up there, and many farmers
we visited, we're proud of the keys cows they had
in their herds, so you're quite a different looking cow.
The huge focus on grass system called pasture based islands,
(24:35):
so you know, whether you're a scientist, whether you're a farmer,
whether you're a student, where you're oral professional, everyone uses
the same database, so they've got more data points and
so increased accuracy, so they're able to sort of help
use it for productive decision making. Big focus on beef
on debty no Bobby calves, so they sort of really
(24:57):
focusing on a breeding index four beef with those calves
and buying and selling based on it. So they've done
away with the how calf looks in terms of you know,
four white socks and a white mark on its head
and all that sort of thing. It's purely on genetics.
They'd focus on training and really developing people strong farm
(25:20):
systems knowledge, and then they've really got themselves quite organized
around catchment groups.
Speaker 5 (25:25):
They've got a lot of.
Speaker 7 (25:26):
Pressure on the EU from the EU around nitrogen derogation,
so they've got whole communities in supporting farmers around and
proving water quality outcomes, so they might have ural professionals,
they've got teachers, they've got scientists, they've got farmers, students,
everybody is sort of helping improve those water quality outcomes.
(25:46):
So they've sort of looked at New Zealand what New
Zealand's doing, and then just got themselves much more coordinated
and organized quite quickly because they've got a bit of
a burning platform.
Speaker 3 (25:58):
Well, they're very comparable nation to us in many many ways.
Hopefully they're not comparable to us at Eden Park on Saturday,
we're a wee bit better than them, Tracy Brown. Look,
I'm out of time to talk about PC one another
subject for another day, but thanks for your time. Always
enjoy chatting here on the Country.
Speaker 7 (26:15):
Thanks Jamie.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
The Best of the Country with Rubbobank.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
Choose the Bank with one hundred and twenty years global
agribusiness experience, Grow with Rubbobank.
Speaker 3 (26:30):
Oh, welcome back to the Best of the Country. I'm
Jamie McKay. The show's brought to you by Rabobank. Interesting
chat with Tracy Brown, wasn't it not only about Ireland
and the size of their cows, but also the squeeze
that's going on dairy farmer's cost of production eight seventy nine,
break even price forecast milk price nine twenty five. Hopefully
that changes during the course of the season. Up next,
(26:52):
we're going to wrap it with Winston. Peter's one of
my favorite combatants here on the country. The gloves came
off on Thursday show. But I just want to get
all we reminder in about Rabobank's twenty fifty white paper
on Succession now. It was released at the PINNs Primary
Industry New Zealand Summit last month. It's called Succession twenty fifty.
(27:12):
Gearing up for New Zealand's food and agrifuture. Literally billions
of dollars will change hands in the next decade. Is
the next generation come in? The Opportunity Party would love
to tax that with their land taks, wouldn't they? So
it explores the opportunities and challenges facing New Zealand's primary
industry as we transition into the future. Find out more
at the rabobank website rubobank dot co dot nz. Winston
(27:36):
perhaps the best of the country, the.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
Best of the country with Rabobank.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
Choose the bank with one hundred and twenty years global
agribusiness experience.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
Grow with Rubbobank.
Speaker 3 (27:50):
Kicking off the country today New Zealand first leader Winston Peters.
Let's start with the serious stuff and then we'll have
an argument a wee bit later on about the Indian FTA,
as we do every time we chat. Talk to me,
mister Peters about the bird flu. How worried should we be?
Speaker 9 (28:06):
Well, I don't think we should get over worried at
this point in time. I mean, this one that's been
found pubablicly and maybe more it's sys proximbly to the
good life of this country.
Speaker 10 (28:18):
That's important.
Speaker 9 (28:19):
So let's be very careful here. But let's not overreact
and must do judgment too soon.
Speaker 3 (28:25):
So we're not facing another pandemic.
Speaker 9 (28:28):
I don't believe so well, let's hope.
Speaker 3 (28:30):
So anyhow, Okay, celebrity candidates, we've already heard about Tyane Randall,
Stu Nash. I think Stu would call himself a celebrity,
and now Michael Laws. But have you been outgunned by
the act Party bringing in Paul Henry who was quite
critical of you. If you don't mind me saying so, well, it's.
Speaker 9 (28:50):
The amateur our. That's why the fact of the matter
is that at seven pm previous night, the act Party
found out that the President was up against up again
the court again for peterphilia charges. So that's why they
dropped this one. And at this point in time, the coinstances,
the coinstence is echoing around the country. For goodness sake,
(29:12):
there's no surprises here. But as Paul Henry's going to
find out, this is a difficult job politics, and he's
going to have to learn.
Speaker 3 (29:20):
Someone who has also been getting stuck into you, as
Andrew Advance. I spent a couple of weeks in Australia,
but it was a big story while I was over there.
She got stuck into you and you got stuck into
her in return. And then there was a column from
someone this columns everywhere these days about how an eighty
year old is very cleverly using social media. Did you
(29:41):
take that as a compliment.
Speaker 9 (29:44):
And yes I did, And I took them so long
to learn that in the first place. But Andrew Advanced,
I took it to the Press Council and won because
she made a whole lot of stabments of a pulse
about the qui row and the press counselor agree with me.
But before that, you recall I've accused her and Peter
Dunn of releasing state secrets. Remember that, and Peter Dunn
lost his job. So she hates me and understand why.
(30:04):
But she used to work for News of the World.
Who the News of the World. Well they had they
were shut down for lying to the British media. That's
how bad they were. So I'm not taking your lessons
from Andrey Advance. She's bitter and twisted and I've proven it.
Speaker 3 (30:17):
Are you worried about the Opportunity Party getting past that
five percent threshold? I know you say bug of the polls,
a bit like your old mate Jim Bolger, But the
reality is if they do manage to get past five percent,
and I'm not suggesting they will, but if they did,
that would mean a change of government.
Speaker 9 (30:35):
First of all, look, the first thing I know about opportunity,
there's opportunity costs, and in this case, you've got a
hold of consultants, and consultants will send you an invoice.
It's all the hype of the mainstream media. They're trying
to prop them up, get them all the covers possible,
and so are you. When do they have a last
public meeting? Did you see it did you know what
they said? Without their manifesto, they reach what they said.
(30:58):
They haven't told you anything about what they meant. But
there are a bunch of left wingers. Sadly they'll send
everybody over sixty five destitute because they're going to have
land tax and nobody over sixty five bill to pay it.
So when they find out about this, I'm not concerned
about them, No, I'm worried about one pay in the
past called his z even.
Speaker 3 (31:14):
First universal income in a land tax that would be
crippling for many in the productive sector, and I particularly
look at farming.
Speaker 9 (31:23):
Yeah, and you and your listeners.
Speaker 3 (31:24):
So I'll tell you what are you new Zealand First
conserve us.
Speaker 9 (31:28):
If you won't be saved yet, you've got to write
God you you took a long time to get to there,
but at last you finally understood you've got one chance
to be down on the farm, and that farther in
chances is zun first.
Speaker 3 (31:40):
How did you take to be called a clown by
a former Prime minister John Key?
Speaker 5 (31:45):
Ah?
Speaker 9 (31:46):
Well, look, Paul, John, I mean you know you remember
there's the crash in Wall Street or the crash in
that two thousand and eight when all these companies went down,
and the fourth company to go down was Merrill Lynch
got bailed out by the American taxpayers. Well, John Key's
back was with them, and I said at the time,
and I don't come here and tell us what you know.
This is a fraud and Pudge and company you worked
(32:06):
for and they've been found out. And the second thing
about John Key when he talks about it there my
op quest to John Key is, mister Key, if this
deal is so good, how come by twenty fifty you
learnly grow our GDP by one tenth of one percent?
Explain that to me if you week.
Speaker 3 (32:22):
Where did you get that number from? Have you just
pulled that out of your backside?
Speaker 9 (32:26):
No, now that's the Treasury forecast. I didn't pull it
out of there. You should know this. I am astonisher here.
Speaker 4 (32:32):
I am here.
Speaker 9 (32:34):
I am on this date, all the way in the
July the sixteenth, twenty twenty six, after all these months
of December last year, they were talking about signing up
to it, and you've found out for the first time
what it's value to our economy is. I am deeply shocked.
And the people who suffered the most, of the farmers,
because they're not in having your dairy products down there,
are they? And when it comes to the other products,
(32:55):
when it comes to beef well or mutton, have a
look at the Yes, that's a the UK and other
country sales to them. Or do I say the Australian
sells them and tell you why he is so confident.
I'm astonished that you've learned to see her now that
the GDP growth will be only one ten to one
percent by twenty fifty.
Speaker 3 (33:14):
Now, yeah, I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I buy
that I spoke to and I know your good mates
with him, you were very good mates with his father.
Speaker 9 (33:22):
Yes, you say not for you buy that. I've been
saying that for days now. Has anybody refuted me? No?
The only person refuted me is you.
Speaker 3 (33:31):
Well, I don't know the numbers. I don't know if
you've just made them up and trying to pull the
wall over my eyes.
Speaker 9 (33:35):
If I'd have made them up there to be refuted me,
wouldn't they.
Speaker 7 (33:39):
In?
Speaker 3 (33:40):
Okay, let me go back to Todd McKay and I
know he's a mate of yours and you get along
well with them. This is what he had to say yesterday.
It's only a twenty second clip on the twenty billion
dollar investment. Listen to this, the twenty billion dollar investment.
Is it an investment or is it an aspirational target?
Speaker 10 (33:57):
It's an aspirational target to promote investment. That has taken
our commitment to promote investment, and it is very clear
in the legislation it has written down. Lawyers on both
sides scrutinize that our responsibility is to promote it is
not to invest.
Speaker 3 (34:12):
So what do you say about that? What do you
say an answer to that?
Speaker 9 (34:15):
Stop playing with words. The reality is that I've been
saying for a long time, what this thirty three billion
US that New Zealand dollars will cost us into the
Indian economy? And here comes money. He's coming over he's
got a high commission here, that's seen all the controversy.
He gets over here, and he still said what he said,
because that's the way they've read it and going it
(34:37):
cost us if we don't match up with what we promised.
That's the reality of it.
Speaker 3 (34:41):
But why wouldn't Why wouldn't we, Winston Peters invest in
an economy that is a marketplace of one point four
billion and growing daily.
Speaker 9 (34:50):
We would because we're not stupid. We should be investing
in a country called New Zealand, not a country called India.
Speaker 5 (34:56):
For goodness, Well, what's wrong with you?
Speaker 9 (34:59):
Men? What I can see why you vote in the
National Partic is that.
Speaker 3 (35:03):
Global You don't know who I vote for. I could
be a New Zealand first voter if it wasn't for
your stance on the FDA. Also, Todd McClay had this
to say about immigration. Hey, what about the unfettered migration
that he's banging on.
Speaker 10 (35:18):
About selection year? He's absolutely completely one thousand percent wrong.
One six hundred and seventy skilled workers per year could
come to New Zealand. They're only allowed to stay for
three years and they have to go home. They can't
reapply on that same visa for another three years.
Speaker 3 (35:35):
So there you go. You're a one thousand percent wrong.
Speaker 9 (35:37):
Now what's wrong with that is if I'm wrong, then
why is Mody and Goyal, the Trade Minister for India
and their communications ministries? Why are they all wrong? They're
all saying what I'm saying. How come that all of
a sudden you got this contract where the Indian's got
it all wrong In sales Winster Veters and the National
Party has got it all right. Excuse me, this is
(35:59):
not our first, not.
Speaker 3 (36:01):
Your first rodeo. Why did you say? Why did you
seen Mark Patterson, your wall guy, over to in there?
Isn't that a bit two faced?
Speaker 9 (36:09):
No, not too face. We've been working on exporting the
wall all around the world since we've got the job,
and Mike's done a fantastic job. And there I said,
if you go to their Indian new Parliament, the carpet
is magnificent carve it is provided by New Zealand. This
is nothing to do with this. I mean, this is
the kind of deal we talked about, getting out there
and trading properly, but making it up and manifesting it
(36:31):
as the Prime Minister has while he subserviently bows down
to an Indian culture in New Zealand was just breathtaking.
How could we possibly be proud of what he did?
I mean, the salutations and secretness of the Prime Minister's
behavior when many principles here was just breathtaking. And you
know it.
Speaker 3 (36:50):
Would you have held hands with Mody?
Speaker 2 (36:52):
No?
Speaker 9 (36:53):
I wouldn't have because I'm godlongto my own culture and
I've set another country to come here and respect Mike
culture when I'm here, That's not the way. It's your behave.
Speaker 3 (37:01):
Hey, Winston Peter's thanks for your time. I could argue
all day with you, but I haven't got that time.
Good luck for your national conferences this weekend, isn't it
it is? Is it true that you need a gold
card to get in?
Speaker 9 (37:12):
You've only a gold card to get in, but you'll
need to beget early because I tell you why. It
will be war to war. Unlike other parties they kind
of get and put it down telephone booth.
Speaker 4 (37:21):
Together.
Speaker 3 (37:22):
Only New Zealand First can save this. Thanks for your time,
okay man, cheers.
Speaker 1 (37:26):
Love the best of the Country with Robbobank.
Speaker 2 (37:29):
Choose the bank with one hundred and twenty years global
agribusiness experience.
Speaker 1 (37:33):
Grow with Rubbobank.
Speaker 3 (37:38):
Winston Peter's wrapping the best of the Country. Good morning.
My name's Jamie Mackay. The show is brought to you
by Rabobank. We're growing a better New Zealand together. Do
you realize it's thirty two years and fifteen days since
we lost at Eden Park when the French scored the
tribe from the end of the Earth on July to third,
nineteen ninety four. Let's hope history doesn't repeat itself. Tonight,
(38:00):
catch you back next Saturday morning. Gonna leave you with
a great Irish song.
Speaker 11 (38:28):
Wal I'm small, don't think that.
Speaker 6 (39:02):
Just don't let John dort.
Speaker 8 (39:07):
I'll come on, and no, I said, gets up time,
(39:29):
so said to them, but.
Speaker 11 (39:37):
Your plants.
Speaker 8 (39:48):
This joke.
Speaker 3 (39:54):
Oh I spell, I'll.
Speaker 11 (39:57):
Come on, lesson ta.
Speaker 12 (40:02):
So I dress bending as I come on, lessing, I
come on, dress music MEAs.
Speaker 1 (40:13):
I come on in, I'll come on, come on.
Speaker 6 (40:25):
Right, come on right?
Speaker 11 (40:30):
Road has your road?
Speaker 1 (40:34):
Oh Sam, come on on the.
Speaker 6 (40:44):
Road, the same road together. It's rather, I says, Oh.
Speaker 12 (41:01):
I swear at the schools proms.
Speaker 6 (41:11):
Do I come on?
Speaker 8 (41:15):
Come on?
Speaker 11 (41:16):
Oh I swear at the
Speaker 6 (41:19):
School Oh my god, Don
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