August 31, 2026 • 8 mins
The Chief Executive of the New Zealand Forest Owners Association discusses how the forestry industry has come under increasing scrutiny, despite the many positives it delivers. She talks about how the sector is adapting its management systems in response to increased pressure from major storm events, the impact climate change is having on forestry operations, the role forestry plays in the Emissions Trading Scheme (ETS), and whether carbon forestry is really the villain it is sometimes portrayed to be.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Well, joining us is Dr. Elizabeth Heath, CEO of the
Forestry Owners Association. Good afternoon.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Good afternoon. How are you doing?
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Great, thank you. Look, as an industry, do you feel
you're copping a fair bit? Is that unfair?
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Oh, look, we are really keen to tell the good
story that we have to tell about the great fiber
that we grow here in New Zealand and all the
great things that you can do with it. And I
think we're looking for opportunities like this to be able
to talk more about what we're growing here in New Zealand. Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
OK, so what are some of these positive stories that
need to be out there?
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Well, first and foremost, we are one of the most
efficient producers of fiber in the world and really high
quality wood fiber. And, you know, what we're able to
do with that is only surpassed by the fact that
we can grow it in a way that, you know,
we've got kiwi and our native falcons and all kinds
(01:00):
of biodiversity that are living in it while we're growing it,
and we're able to then manage the harvest and do
all that sustainably, often in tandem to great farming systems
as well. So we're an efficient producer of high-quality building
products and a whole range of pulp and paper, and
(01:21):
the way that we do that is often in conjunction
with some great farming systems as well.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Elizabeth, the problem is, I guess, if I'm from the
East Coast, I'm not seeing those positive stories in terms
of good practices and everything we're seeing around the slash
and the harvesting. I mean, how are you going to
overcome that imagery?
Speaker 2 (01:41):
So part of what we are going to have to
work on is responding to these really bad storm events
and how we disentangle what is a result of forestry
practice and what's a result of these traumatic storm events.
The tough thing in Tide Offity is we got hammered
(02:01):
with a really terrible cyclone up there. And then I
think everybody looked at all the wood that had come
down and assumed that that was a result of poor practice.
And actually, a lot of the trees that came down
in that were standing trees that got blown over or
there was landslide events. Climate change is really throwing us
some curveballs, especially with these big storms. You know, we've
(02:25):
subsequently had a couple of places in the country where
we've had big blowovers and what we call wind throw
events in the last few years. I think in Tide Offity,
particularly the soil type up there makes it extra tricky
for how we're going to work through that. And we're
really focused on getting it right. So we're putting research
and development and we're putting a lot of time into
engineering and into trying to figure out how we manage
(02:47):
those systems under this increased pressure so that it's not
a compliance problem, that we're doing everything we can to
to try and manage in those systems effectively, even given
the fact that we're dealing with increased pressure.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
Do you think you can genuinely offer hope to the
people of those regions that we're not going to see
the same impact? I mean, we've got to accept climate
change is happening, weather events are happening, trees will come down,
as you have said, in a natural kind of way.
But are you confident that there's enough being done that
we won't see the huge impact that we've seen?
Speaker 2 (03:25):
I think that depends on the nature of the storm events.
And anybody that tells you we're going to be able
to 100% manage it, I think, isn't really looking at
the reality of some of what we're seeing. Some of
the briefings I've been to from Earth Sciences lately about
the weather we're in store for in the next couple
of years with this El Nino and then going into
(03:47):
a La Nina, we're getting less of a break of
good weather in between these events. That being said, I
back New Zealand ingenuity on this. We've got some great engineers,
some really smart people that are out there thinking about
how we work through this from a forestry engineering and
from a management perspective. And I think we're going to
(04:09):
do everything we can to meet the challenge. But part
of what we've got to do is keep working the
systems in order to do that. So if we stand still,
the risk doesn't go away. It actually just gets realized
in different ways. We've got to keep working through and
keep managing these systems in order to try to mitigate
the risks that we're dealing with.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
What do you make of the fact that it would appear,
and many believe this, that New Zealand rely too heavily
on forestry offsets rather than reducing gross emissions? Is that fair?
Speaker 2 (04:44):
Well, I think we need to do more to reduce
gross emissions. But right now, the forestry that we've got
in the emissions trading scheme and otherwise is the climate
mitigation that's actually working, like it's pulling CO2 out of
the atmosphere. And so we don't want to stop doing
what's working because we need to do more. We actually
(05:05):
need to keep doing what's working and then talk about
how we do the more on top of that. And
to be fair, there's some awesome systems out there. People
are electrifying plants. both their forestry and their farming systems,
and we're finding all kinds of ways to reduce emissions.
I think that's where, again, we just need to bring
that intellect into how we're going to do it. But
(05:26):
don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Don't stop
doing the thing that's working in order to go after
the gross emissions reductions, which we absolutely need.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
You talk of this wonderful fibre timber. What percentage of
trees is actually for timber production versus... this offset planting?
Speaker 2 (05:45):
Well, at the national level, I think what makes it
tough for people to understand, I get a lot of
people send me pictures of what they think is a
carbon forest. And I'm like, well, I know the people
who planted that, that's a timber forest, but they are
thinking about entering into the emissions trading scheme. In a
lot of cases, you'll have folks that basically have maintained
(06:06):
their optionality. So they may be growing a timber crop,
but their intentions may change over the course of growing
that crop. So right now we know from some of
the surveys MPI does that about 80% of people that
have a forest in the AETS are anticipating that they're
going to harvest that forest, right? And I think at
(06:30):
the national level, that means the majority of forests you
see are for timber, even if they're in the emissions
trading scheme. But it's all going to depend, when you
get that 30 years down the track, it's going to
depend on what the price of carbon is and the
price of timber is. And because we represent timber growers,
one of the things we're really keen to make sure
(06:51):
of is that, you know, that timber is going to
be high value and it's going to mean that we've
got this continued wood flow and the fibre flow going
through our manufacturing system. We can still have great onshore
wood processing.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
Is it fair to have sort of a dollar each
way like that?
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Oh, you know, my grandfather was a farmer. I'm not
a farmer. But I think for people that are working
on the land and have a long-term asset, I think
having the potential to make an income on that asset
as it's growing, like you do with the emissions trading scheme,
is pretty important when you look at how tight cost
(07:32):
margins are right now. And then I think when you
get to the point where you could harvest timber and
you potentially are going to have to pay some of
that back, depending on how you're doing your accounting, I
think all of that is part of the system. So
I absolutely think carbon income can be a great way
for farmers and foresters to diversify their risks, especially in
(07:54):
what we have right now, which is a very risky environment.
And I think that's going to be an important part
of managing rural systems going forward. There's also the potential, like,
you know, Minister Hoggart talked about these nature credit markets.
There's going to be a lot of potential for us
to diversify financial instruments in the rural landscape. And I
think we need to embrace that and find ways to
(08:16):
work with it because the costs aren't going away. And
we're growing stuff on our land that has a lot
of value in different kinds of markets, different kinds of
financial systems. We should take advantage of that rather than
be scared of it. But I think we've got to
absolutely manage it in a responsible way. Dr.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
Elizabeth Heeg, CEO of the Forestry Owners Association, thank you
for your time today.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
Thank you.
Well, joining us is Dr. Elizabeth Heath, CEO of the
Forestry Owners Association. Good afternoon.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Good afternoon. How are you doing?
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Great, thank you. Look, as an industry, do you feel
you're copping a fair bit? Is that unfair?
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Oh, look, we are really keen to tell the good
story that we have to tell about the great fiber
that we grow here in New Zealand and all the
great things that you can do with it. And I
think we're looking for opportunities like this to be able
to talk more about what we're growing here in New Zealand. Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
OK, so what are some of these positive stories that
need to be out there?
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Well, first and foremost, we are one of the most
efficient producers of fiber in the world and really high
quality wood fiber. And, you know, what we're able to
do with that is only surpassed by the fact that
we can grow it in a way that, you know,
we've got kiwi and our native falcons and all kinds
(01:00):
of biodiversity that are living in it while we're growing it,
and we're able to then manage the harvest and do
all that sustainably, often in tandem to great farming systems
as well. So we're an efficient producer of high-quality building
products and a whole range of pulp and paper, and
(01:21):
the way that we do that is often in conjunction
with some great farming systems as well.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Elizabeth, the problem is, I guess, if I'm from the
East Coast, I'm not seeing those positive stories in terms
of good practices and everything we're seeing around the slash
and the harvesting. I mean, how are you going to
overcome that imagery?
Speaker 2 (01:41):
So part of what we are going to have to
work on is responding to these really bad storm events
and how we disentangle what is a result of forestry
practice and what's a result of these traumatic storm events.
The tough thing in Tide Offity is we got hammered
(02:01):
with a really terrible cyclone up there. And then I
think everybody looked at all the wood that had come
down and assumed that that was a result of poor practice.
And actually, a lot of the trees that came down
in that were standing trees that got blown over or
there was landslide events. Climate change is really throwing us
some curveballs, especially with these big storms. You know, we've
(02:25):
subsequently had a couple of places in the country where
we've had big blowovers and what we call wind throw
events in the last few years. I think in Tide Offity,
particularly the soil type up there makes it extra tricky
for how we're going to work through that. And we're
really focused on getting it right. So we're putting research
and development and we're putting a lot of time into
engineering and into trying to figure out how we manage
(02:47):
those systems under this increased pressure so that it's not
a compliance problem, that we're doing everything we can to
to try and manage in those systems effectively, even given
the fact that we're dealing with increased pressure.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
Do you think you can genuinely offer hope to the
people of those regions that we're not going to see
the same impact? I mean, we've got to accept climate
change is happening, weather events are happening, trees will come down,
as you have said, in a natural kind of way.
But are you confident that there's enough being done that
we won't see the huge impact that we've seen?
Speaker 2 (03:25):
I think that depends on the nature of the storm events.
And anybody that tells you we're going to be able
to 100% manage it, I think, isn't really looking at
the reality of some of what we're seeing. Some of
the briefings I've been to from Earth Sciences lately about
the weather we're in store for in the next couple
of years with this El Nino and then going into
(03:47):
a La Nina, we're getting less of a break of
good weather in between these events. That being said, I
back New Zealand ingenuity on this. We've got some great engineers,
some really smart people that are out there thinking about
how we work through this from a forestry engineering and
from a management perspective. And I think we're going to
(04:09):
do everything we can to meet the challenge. But part
of what we've got to do is keep working the
systems in order to do that. So if we stand still,
the risk doesn't go away. It actually just gets realized
in different ways. We've got to keep working through and
keep managing these systems in order to try to mitigate
the risks that we're dealing with.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
What do you make of the fact that it would appear,
and many believe this, that New Zealand rely too heavily
on forestry offsets rather than reducing gross emissions? Is that fair?
Speaker 2 (04:44):
Well, I think we need to do more to reduce
gross emissions. But right now, the forestry that we've got
in the emissions trading scheme and otherwise is the climate
mitigation that's actually working, like it's pulling CO2 out of
the atmosphere. And so we don't want to stop doing
what's working because we need to do more. We actually
(05:05):
need to keep doing what's working and then talk about
how we do the more on top of that. And
to be fair, there's some awesome systems out there. People
are electrifying plants. both their forestry and their farming systems,
and we're finding all kinds of ways to reduce emissions.
I think that's where, again, we just need to bring
that intellect into how we're going to do it. But
(05:26):
don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Don't stop
doing the thing that's working in order to go after
the gross emissions reductions, which we absolutely need.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
You talk of this wonderful fibre timber. What percentage of
trees is actually for timber production versus... this offset planting?
Speaker 2 (05:45):
Well, at the national level, I think what makes it
tough for people to understand, I get a lot of
people send me pictures of what they think is a
carbon forest. And I'm like, well, I know the people
who planted that, that's a timber forest, but they are
thinking about entering into the emissions trading scheme. In a
lot of cases, you'll have folks that basically have maintained
(06:06):
their optionality. So they may be growing a timber crop,
but their intentions may change over the course of growing
that crop. So right now we know from some of
the surveys MPI does that about 80% of people that
have a forest in the AETS are anticipating that they're
going to harvest that forest, right? And I think at
(06:30):
the national level, that means the majority of forests you
see are for timber, even if they're in the emissions
trading scheme. But it's all going to depend, when you
get that 30 years down the track, it's going to
depend on what the price of carbon is and the
price of timber is. And because we represent timber growers,
one of the things we're really keen to make sure
(06:51):
of is that, you know, that timber is going to
be high value and it's going to mean that we've
got this continued wood flow and the fibre flow going
through our manufacturing system. We can still have great onshore
wood processing.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
Is it fair to have sort of a dollar each
way like that?
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Oh, you know, my grandfather was a farmer. I'm not
a farmer. But I think for people that are working
on the land and have a long-term asset, I think
having the potential to make an income on that asset
as it's growing, like you do with the emissions trading scheme,
is pretty important when you look at how tight cost
(07:32):
margins are right now. And then I think when you
get to the point where you could harvest timber and
you potentially are going to have to pay some of
that back, depending on how you're doing your accounting, I
think all of that is part of the system. So
I absolutely think carbon income can be a great way
for farmers and foresters to diversify their risks, especially in
(07:54):
what we have right now, which is a very risky environment.
And I think that's going to be an important part
of managing rural systems going forward. There's also the potential, like,
you know, Minister Hoggart talked about these nature credit markets.
There's going to be a lot of potential for us
to diversify financial instruments in the rural landscape. And I
think we need to embrace that and find ways to
(08:16):
work with it because the costs aren't going away. And
we're growing stuff on our land that has a lot
of value in different kinds of markets, different kinds of
financial systems. We should take advantage of that rather than
be scared of it. But I think we've got to
absolutely manage it in a responsible way. Dr.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
Elizabeth Heeg, CEO of the Forestry Owners Association, thank you
for your time today.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
Thank you.
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