June 2, 2026 • 8 mins
The Prime Minister ponders his Fieldays plans, the latest Roy Morgan poll, and whether we are freeloading on defence spending. Plus, should we remain nuclear-free, and why should we even contemplate bailing out Moana Pasifika?
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Wednesdays on the Country, The Prime Minister kicks off the
show Christopher Luxe and Budget last week. Field Days next week.
What are your plans for the biggest egg gathering of
the year.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Well, I love it. I mean I've been going for
a long time, even before I came to politics, and
I'm going to have a full two days there and
it's really the best. But that I get value from
is obviously I have to deal with the good and
great of the industry and sector, which is always good.
But the most important thing for me is getting out
and seeing the stalls and just chatting to farmers and
people associated with the industry and what they're doing and
(00:31):
how they're selling. And so it'll be a full on
two days. It'll be great, actually, very looking forward to it.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Do you think you can be like your predecessor, John Key,
who was almost a pied pipe, mind you, Jacinda was
for a while too. There was hordes of teenage girls
screaming at them and her. Have you got that sort
of pulling power?
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Well, we've got a good reception. People are really good
to us at field Days, but thrankly across the country
actually I find that's but no, it's just good to
get out Jamie, and you actually, you know, like I
can look at the numbers agriculture and say, yet we're
on fire. We've had a twelve two billion dollar trade
surplus in April despite the fuel crisis. You know, we
know dairy, sheet meat, red meat, well water cultures all
(01:13):
doing well. But actually it's to get a feel from
the from the actual small businesses that are there. That's
what I get a lot of value from. So now
really looking forward to it'll be a great day, great
two days. Actually, was the.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
Whispered coup against you a month or so ago the
best thing that ever happened to you. You changed tact,
You got Rachel smally in, you became like you became
luckso Rambow like the terminator. You went all aggressive against Renston.
But no, seriously, well, while I'm looking at the latest
Roy Morgan pole and I'm seeing a swing you. I
(01:45):
don't know whether you believe the Roy Morgan pole, but
you're almost back to election night. Numbers center, right, center, left.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Look, I just think you Geans understand what's at stake
as they go into this selection this year, is that
you know, we've been working really hard to fix the
basics that labor broke. Have been working really hard at
the same time to also build the foundations that we
need for a future, whether that's expanded trade arrangements, RMA reform,
education reform, trying to get savings and investment lifted across
(02:12):
the country. Those are the things we're going to set
us and our kids and our grandkids up well for
the future. So, you know, I think New Velders kind
of get it. They know it's been difficult times. We're
all frustrated with this aeries of crises we've been dealing with.
But New Zealand's come through this budget and fairly good
shape with good levels of growth. The economy is predicted
to grow two point seven in the next four years,
(02:33):
two hundred and twenty thousand new jobs being created over
the next four years, and relative to other countries, I
think our performance is going to be really good.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
Yeah, but sorry, we're not performing quite as well when
it comes to defense spending. Pete haig Seth, the Minister
of whatever he calls himself War. It's a strange title,
isn't it. He says, we're free loading. We need to
be spending three and a half percent of GDP on
defense And I heard you talking to hear the duplasy
Allen about this, about the nuclear free stance. Why are
(03:06):
we not reconsidering this? Is this? I'm going to hang on.
Here's my question. Is this a heart back?
Speaker 2 (03:11):
So I wonder when you're getting to a question.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
Well, well, no, it was a statement. It was a statement,
and it's going to be followed by a question. I
need to learn to use a full stops now. Is
this a hark back to the romanticism of the long ear?
I can smell the uranium on your breath days of
the nineteen eighties.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
No, no, No, there's two things going on. Look first
and foremost. You know, we make our own decisions about
defense spending. I'm really proud of what we've done. You know,
we've got the biggest commitment to defense spending going forward
of any previous government. We've had under investment in our
defense assets for probably the last thirty years. We've got
a doubling of defense spending. We've got a fifteen year plan.
We know we need new resources, equipment, support. We need
(03:50):
to hire I think another two thousand plus personnel. That
takes time as we work our way through getting ships
built and aircraft ordered and people recruited. But you know,
we should be really proud of the fact we're doing that.
And we have to do that because we've moved from
a very benign part of the world where there hasn't
been much threats or risks to our futures to a
more challenged part of the world now. And so it's
(04:12):
important when you belong to different alliances that you actually
step up and contribute. Don't just belong to the alliances
and get the membership. You've actually got to show up
and bring something to the party. So I think we've
done a very good job and a very sensible program
of investment and defense assets on the nuclear free position
that remains unchanged. And you know, I talk to our
partners and are very clear about our position, and they
(04:33):
know our stands and they respect it. And frankly, all
sides of the political spectrum, there'll be people at the
extremes of both sides of that debate. Obviously there's for
every debate, But the vast majority of Kiwis don't see
a reason for us to change our position at all.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
What are you going to do when the Aussies want
to bring the any nuclear subs and for an oil
and agrees on oil change.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Well, let's be clear, the Australians are going to spend
possibly numbers I thought I saw close to four hundred
billion or three undred and eighty billion in Australian dollars
on subs. They don't get them until the mid twenty forties.
They delivered through the twenty fifties and the twenty sixties.
But even in our conversations with Australia, they understand our
position and all our partner's doing. We're very clear about it.
So as I said, it's not going to change, Well,
(05:15):
I'm promising.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
What's wrong in a time where we've got a fuel
crisis and potentially many more popping up in the future.
What's wrong with nuclear power? The Europeans are happy enough
with it.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
Well, we've actually got what we need for our fuel,
I mean, in our energy. We we're just on a
very poor job of managing it. That's the real crux
of the issue. You know, you basically had this oil
and gas band and then had this chilling effect on
the thermal energy that we need to offset us on
the dry year risk when our renewablestone work so It's
a pretty simple problem and we just haven't fixed it
(05:48):
because we've been very fixated on emissions and climate change
rather than energy and dependence. And I'm saying with respect
to energy strategy, it's not about long term climate change goals.
It's actually about energy and dependence. New Zealand is less
knocked around by global crisis that we're experiencing now, so
that's what I'm focused on, and that's why we've got
the coal reserve now for four months supply essentially at
(06:09):
the back of Huntley. That's why we're building the diesel
reserve and nine days extra stock and that's coming into
actually the orders the fuels on the boat now and
will be ready in a couple of weeks. You know,
we're making sure we're following up investments and fermal energy
as well as doubling the amount of renewables that we've
got up and down the country, you know, down your
way down south. You know, we've approved a fast tracked
(06:30):
wind farm that will power up one hundred thousand homes. Well,
you know that's been that was rejected under the previous government.
We did that in a matter of you know, probably
one hundred and ten days or so, so you know,
there's we're doubling renewables and it's an and strategy, not
or we actually need to also do the investments in
the oil and gas night.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
Okay, final question for your prime minister, Why are you
contemplating putting money into saving a rugby team, namely Moana
pacifica not great optics a week after a tough budget?
Is this just tol eight grumpy old Winston.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
Look, Winston can go have a look at it, and
maybe there are things we can do in the non
financial space around facilitation and a bunch of stuff like that,
But I think the bar is pretty high. I don't
think the taxpayer has much appetite for supporting professional sports team.
I think secondly, you know, labor put four million dollars
into my own Pacific and it's all gone and alone
we won't be getting back. And finally, you know, any
(07:25):
decision to support mynipsite would have to come through the cabinets,
and I think there would be a challenging conversation. So
once it's more than free to go look at it.
But I think when it comes to putting money on
the table, that's a very difficult decision and a very
high Bardi. Need to me.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
I'll see you, same time, same place next Wednesday night.
Doubt you'll be surrounded by a screaming horde of teenage
girls just like Key and Jacinda.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
Well, Jamie, when you show up there with your radio show,
isn't it sort of you like a beetle Mania sort
of goes off around you.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
At the it's more like a gathering of pension is
around me. But anyhow, you can young the crowd up
a week. But thank you very much for your time.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
All right, Jamie, you have a great week. See you mate.
Wednesdays on the Country, The Prime Minister kicks off the
show Christopher Luxe and Budget last week. Field Days next week.
What are your plans for the biggest egg gathering of
the year.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Well, I love it. I mean I've been going for
a long time, even before I came to politics, and
I'm going to have a full two days there and
it's really the best. But that I get value from
is obviously I have to deal with the good and
great of the industry and sector, which is always good.
But the most important thing for me is getting out
and seeing the stalls and just chatting to farmers and
people associated with the industry and what they're doing and
(00:31):
how they're selling. And so it'll be a full on
two days. It'll be great, actually, very looking forward to it.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Do you think you can be like your predecessor, John Key,
who was almost a pied pipe, mind you, Jacinda was
for a while too. There was hordes of teenage girls
screaming at them and her. Have you got that sort
of pulling power?
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Well, we've got a good reception. People are really good
to us at field Days, but thrankly across the country
actually I find that's but no, it's just good to
get out Jamie, and you actually, you know, like I
can look at the numbers agriculture and say, yet we're
on fire. We've had a twelve two billion dollar trade
surplus in April despite the fuel crisis. You know, we
know dairy, sheet meat, red meat, well water cultures all
(01:13):
doing well. But actually it's to get a feel from
the from the actual small businesses that are there. That's
what I get a lot of value from. So now
really looking forward to it'll be a great day, great
two days. Actually, was the.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
Whispered coup against you a month or so ago the
best thing that ever happened to you. You changed tact,
You got Rachel smally in, you became like you became
luckso Rambow like the terminator. You went all aggressive against Renston.
But no, seriously, well, while I'm looking at the latest
Roy Morgan pole and I'm seeing a swing you. I
(01:45):
don't know whether you believe the Roy Morgan pole, but
you're almost back to election night. Numbers center, right, center, left.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Look, I just think you Geans understand what's at stake
as they go into this selection this year, is that
you know, we've been working really hard to fix the
basics that labor broke. Have been working really hard at
the same time to also build the foundations that we
need for a future, whether that's expanded trade arrangements, RMA reform,
education reform, trying to get savings and investment lifted across
(02:12):
the country. Those are the things we're going to set
us and our kids and our grandkids up well for
the future. So, you know, I think New Velders kind
of get it. They know it's been difficult times. We're
all frustrated with this aeries of crises we've been dealing with.
But New Zealand's come through this budget and fairly good
shape with good levels of growth. The economy is predicted
to grow two point seven in the next four years,
(02:33):
two hundred and twenty thousand new jobs being created over
the next four years, and relative to other countries, I
think our performance is going to be really good.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
Yeah, but sorry, we're not performing quite as well when
it comes to defense spending. Pete haig Seth, the Minister
of whatever he calls himself War. It's a strange title,
isn't it. He says, we're free loading. We need to
be spending three and a half percent of GDP on
defense And I heard you talking to hear the duplasy
Allen about this, about the nuclear free stance. Why are
(03:06):
we not reconsidering this? Is this? I'm going to hang on.
Here's my question. Is this a heart back?
Speaker 2 (03:11):
So I wonder when you're getting to a question.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
Well, well, no, it was a statement. It was a statement,
and it's going to be followed by a question. I
need to learn to use a full stops now. Is
this a hark back to the romanticism of the long ear?
I can smell the uranium on your breath days of
the nineteen eighties.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
No, no, No, there's two things going on. Look first
and foremost. You know, we make our own decisions about
defense spending. I'm really proud of what we've done. You know,
we've got the biggest commitment to defense spending going forward
of any previous government. We've had under investment in our
defense assets for probably the last thirty years. We've got
a doubling of defense spending. We've got a fifteen year plan.
We know we need new resources, equipment, support. We need
(03:50):
to hire I think another two thousand plus personnel. That
takes time as we work our way through getting ships
built and aircraft ordered and people recruited. But you know,
we should be really proud of the fact we're doing that.
And we have to do that because we've moved from
a very benign part of the world where there hasn't
been much threats or risks to our futures to a
more challenged part of the world now. And so it's
(04:12):
important when you belong to different alliances that you actually
step up and contribute. Don't just belong to the alliances
and get the membership. You've actually got to show up
and bring something to the party. So I think we've
done a very good job and a very sensible program
of investment and defense assets on the nuclear free position
that remains unchanged. And you know, I talk to our
partners and are very clear about our position, and they
(04:33):
know our stands and they respect it. And frankly, all
sides of the political spectrum, there'll be people at the
extremes of both sides of that debate. Obviously there's for
every debate, But the vast majority of Kiwis don't see
a reason for us to change our position at all.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
What are you going to do when the Aussies want
to bring the any nuclear subs and for an oil
and agrees on oil change.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Well, let's be clear, the Australians are going to spend
possibly numbers I thought I saw close to four hundred
billion or three undred and eighty billion in Australian dollars
on subs. They don't get them until the mid twenty forties.
They delivered through the twenty fifties and the twenty sixties.
But even in our conversations with Australia, they understand our
position and all our partner's doing. We're very clear about it.
So as I said, it's not going to change, Well,
(05:15):
I'm promising.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
What's wrong in a time where we've got a fuel
crisis and potentially many more popping up in the future.
What's wrong with nuclear power? The Europeans are happy enough
with it.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
Well, we've actually got what we need for our fuel,
I mean, in our energy. We we're just on a
very poor job of managing it. That's the real crux
of the issue. You know, you basically had this oil
and gas band and then had this chilling effect on
the thermal energy that we need to offset us on
the dry year risk when our renewablestone work so It's
a pretty simple problem and we just haven't fixed it
(05:48):
because we've been very fixated on emissions and climate change
rather than energy and dependence. And I'm saying with respect
to energy strategy, it's not about long term climate change goals.
It's actually about energy and dependence. New Zealand is less
knocked around by global crisis that we're experiencing now, so
that's what I'm focused on, and that's why we've got
the coal reserve now for four months supply essentially at
(06:09):
the back of Huntley. That's why we're building the diesel
reserve and nine days extra stock and that's coming into
actually the orders the fuels on the boat now and
will be ready in a couple of weeks. You know,
we're making sure we're following up investments and fermal energy
as well as doubling the amount of renewables that we've
got up and down the country, you know, down your
way down south. You know, we've approved a fast tracked
(06:30):
wind farm that will power up one hundred thousand homes. Well,
you know that's been that was rejected under the previous government.
We did that in a matter of you know, probably
one hundred and ten days or so, so you know,
there's we're doubling renewables and it's an and strategy, not
or we actually need to also do the investments in
the oil and gas night.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
Okay, final question for your prime minister, Why are you
contemplating putting money into saving a rugby team, namely Moana
pacifica not great optics a week after a tough budget?
Is this just tol eight grumpy old Winston.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
Look, Winston can go have a look at it, and
maybe there are things we can do in the non
financial space around facilitation and a bunch of stuff like that,
But I think the bar is pretty high. I don't
think the taxpayer has much appetite for supporting professional sports team.
I think secondly, you know, labor put four million dollars
into my own Pacific and it's all gone and alone
we won't be getting back. And finally, you know, any
(07:25):
decision to support mynipsite would have to come through the cabinets,
and I think there would be a challenging conversation. So
once it's more than free to go look at it.
But I think when it comes to putting money on
the table, that's a very difficult decision and a very
high Bardi. Need to me.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
I'll see you, same time, same place next Wednesday night.
Doubt you'll be surrounded by a screaming horde of teenage
girls just like Key and Jacinda.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
Well, Jamie, when you show up there with your radio show,
isn't it sort of you like a beetle Mania sort
of goes off around you.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
At the it's more like a gathering of pension is
around me. But anyhow, you can young the crowd up
a week. But thank you very much for your time.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
All right, Jamie, you have a great week. See you mate.
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