February 3, 2026 • 13 mins
To dig or not to dig? A leading NZ businessman and entrepreneur prepares to take on Matua Shane Jones, the Prince of the Provinces, over gold mining in Bendigo, Central Otago.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
So you've heard from Prime Minister Christopher Luxen to dig
or not to dig in Central Otago for gold. Just
reminding you this is what he said earlier in the
show Who's right Shane Jones or Saren Taylor when it
comes to gold mining at Bendigo in Central Otago? Is
this the national good? Or is this a nimbiaism?
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Now?
Speaker 3 (00:21):
Look, I mean we've got to get more mining underway
in this country. I mean we are blessed with a
bunch of critical minerals, which is where the future is
going to be. With AI and super conducted chips and
all those good things. They create high paying jobs in
regional New Zealand. And we also need mining. Frankly, if
you want to make the transition to evs and solar panels, well,
whether that or come from it comes from minerals on
(00:43):
the ground. So you know, we really want to open
up mining. We think there's a huge opportunity to create
high paying jobs in regional New Zealand.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
So there we go. Saren Taylor joins us, and why
don't you want to create high paying jobs in regional
New Zealand. Good afternoon, New Zealand time.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Hey, well it's interesting. The Prime Minister didn't address my
article at all. See he's addressed what everyone who's supporting
mining does. They go straight to mining minerals across the country. Now,
my discussion here and the debate I will have with Shame,
(01:20):
isn't about mining minerals. It's about mining gold. And the
Prime Minister just attributed gold because I'm only talking about
one mind, it's the one in Bendigo, And the Prime
Minister just attributed the one mineral they're going to take
out of the ground there gold to being the secret
to all of our answers for AIVS, all of it.
(01:45):
It's not used in any of those. It's put in
the ground, in safes, made into jewelry. I think it's
a I can't remember what the percentage that's actually used
in anything electronic or technically advanced, but it's monistic. And
if they truly believed in that, then there's plenty of
gold in the world already that has been mined that
(02:07):
could do everything we need to do. So the people
sort of opposing the argument I've put keep jumping to
mining everywhere. I didn't mention mining anywhere else other than then.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
To go okay, is that nimbism. Is that nimbidism, you
might Sir Sam Nil, Sir Graham Sidney just not wanting
that in their backyard.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Well, the backyard we're talking about is all of New Zealand.
I mean the backyard we're talking about is drives tourism
in New Zealand, it drives horticulture and New Zealand. It
dries murticulture in New Zealand. It is part of our
part of the reputation we have around the country. That's
why people come to Queenstown, That's why people come to Itaga.
(02:55):
It's and again it's that really narrow argument that people
have gone. They're not debating me on the one mine
I mentioned, and now they moved to nimbiasm to claim
that this is us back arguing about our backyard. It's
not our backyard. It's the country's backyard. And it's the
Piman still wants to talk about creating jobs. Otarget has
(03:17):
one of the lowest unemployments in the country.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
You talked about gold gold mine, and gold's very valuable
recently at record highs. Can we afford to leave it
sitting there? I'm playing Devil's advocate.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Sure, So you just jumped to it recently, recently at
that recently at record levels today plummeting. So it's a
volatile market, and it's valuable only because we put it
back into space and into the ground. So the question
(03:49):
we ask, and we're talking about one mine, not all minds,
one mine, and we're talking about a teaspoon of gold
that requires one thousand tons of ground to be dug
up out of the earth and creating a whole I
haven't said don't do it. I have just said don't
fast track it because there are too many questions. And
(04:11):
my argument is is the risk reward valid for this
particular mind?
Speaker 1 (04:18):
Seren Taylor with US Shane Johnes said it's behind a while,
no one's going to see it anyhow, But.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
That doesn't address my question. It can be anywhere you like.
My question is, are we prepared to create a toxic
lake that has a dam that is the height of
the Clyde Dam put it in a place where I mean,
there's an argument whether people will see it or not,
but that argument is relevant, irrelevant. Let's assume people don't
(04:48):
see it at all, but there will be a toxic
dam with arthmic and a whole lot of other things
sitting on in a seismic region where we know we're
going to have an earthquake, and it's sitting up there forever.
What for a tea spoon of gold?
Speaker 1 (05:06):
The Prime Minister was talking about high paying jobs and
regional New Zealand, and I note on the story in
the Otago Daily Times yesterday, you're talking about one hundred
percent pure New Zealand brand. Can that provide as many jobs?
Speaker 2 (05:23):
Yes? And I guess not to not to preclude what
I'll be debating with the Jones, but there is a solution.
There is a huge solution for high value jobs in
the region, and it actually has to do with a
replacement for minerals. And maybe just to give you a
(05:46):
flight hint of where I'll be going on this, but
most of all of the most of the fossil frees,
mine and debt up actually the result of millions and
millions and millions of years of trees beneath the ground.
So there's a whole other area which well, look, I'll
(06:07):
mention it here. So they claim that three billion dollars
in it has a three billion dollar lift to our GDP. Well,
I'm on a group called the New Zealand Product Accelerator.
We've been around for fifteen years and the job of
that Product Accelerator is a look to look at science
and technology that's being developed in New Zealand and how
(06:27):
it will benefit the country. So one of the research
papers we've done, independent research suggests that New Zealand bioforestry,
which actually accesses a whole lot of the things that
are needed for today's electronic economy, is worth between twelve
and thirty billion a year. And what are we doing.
(06:47):
We're going down digging into the ground. Gold isn't an
example of it, but digging into the ground to pull
up stuff that actually began its life as trees and
billions of years ago. So there is another argument that's
being ignored by everybody who wants to go mining.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
Shane Jones says, and I'm quoting again from the Otago
Daily Times mining was neither funded nor delivered in the
way it was thirty to fifty years ago. He goes
on to say, the next generation, we're looking to the
government to create new options in the extractive sector. What
do you say to that.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
No, he's taken a step. Yes, the next year, the
next generation is and you know, my argument here has
always been about the next generation. I'm here with my grandchildren,
and I have a thing. I call it the coalition
of the willing. And to belong to the coalition of
the willing each day you need to be able to
(07:43):
look for grandchildren in the eye and say, today I
did something that will make a difference for you. So
I've got my grandkids over here, and this debate I'm
having with Shane is along those lines. It's about our
walk upon it. Now. He just defined what the future
because he said it's their responsibility to advance extractive solutions.
(08:06):
Let's just take extractive out of it. The government or
our job as grandparents, our job as politicians is definitely
to look at the future generations. And if we were
being really genuine about it, could I look my grandson
in the eye and say, Hey, we're just going to
do a really cool thing. We are going to create
(08:26):
a toxic lake at the top of a mountain above
the waterways that feed all of Central Otago and the
New Zealand economy, tourism, viticulture, horticults and the jobs they
have already created. Am I able to look them into
the eye and say, and you know what, I can
guarantee you one hundred percent that that poison Lake will
(08:49):
stay on the top of that hill forever.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
Do that, Saren Taylor, have you got a date and
a venue for this debate? I want to get some
popcorn and go along.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Well, I'm working with Shane now to put this in context.
I've had discussion. I've known much of a judge for
a very long time. I mean, I was born in Cayo,
come from the same place, and you know, I love
the discussions we have and I'm looking forward to this.
We haven't got a date yet. I'm away overseas for
(09:22):
a couple of weeks. I'm in touch with his office.
We're hoping to hold it in I had originally thought
that we'd hold it in the Tariff Community Center, but
just in hindsight, I then thought, well, actually that may
disadvantage Shane and the debate, although that wouldn't worry him,
(09:42):
but there I am placing it right in the context
where he might have a lot of people yelling at
himddle or a lot of people yelling at me. So
I'm just looking for I think I've got it a
place where the debate will only be Shane and I
and a moderator, so I would hope that we would
have that debate in the you know, he mentioned our
(10:03):
Polynesian voyages, and I hope we will have that in
the spirit of pacifica conversations, which is tullernoah and Talernoa means,
no matter your point of view, you always sit, you
talk and listen with respect, and I think we have
more chance of doing that. It's just Shane and.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
I Sarrien Taylor with us. Just while I've got you
and I'm running out of time, but I want to
ask you about this one. You're big on Share my Super. Look,
if you can afford to give you superannuation, if you
don't need it to someone in need, here's my question
for you. Surely, when it comes to the age of
eligibility for national super, the first step would be raising
the age of eligibility to sixty seven.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
Well, I do have a viewer on that, and you know,
maybe before I got involved with Share my Super, I
would have argued that as well. But what I've discovered is,
and what we're seeing increasingly, is that there are people
hitting the age of sixty five, some even younger than that,
who are really really struggling to survive, and if this
(11:08):
cost of living carries on age of our eligibility is
almost that kind of the latest thing from rich people
as well. You know, I can wait till I'm sixty seven.
I'm okay, but actually we need to step back, and
you know, I don't have the answer. You know, there's
means testing, there's all sorts of other things, but this
(11:28):
has been sitting in the hands of politicians forever and
they doodle around the edges and shift making. A decision
to shift at sixty seven just means there's going to
be a whole lot more elderly people suffer, and that's
going to get worse if this cost of living crisis
keeps going the way it is. So the thing with
cheer my sup. It's really cool that you've asked now,
(11:49):
because we are about to relaunch the campaign we ran
last year, just as a reminders of people that if
you can share it, even for a short while, you
are making an enormous difference. And we are really looking
forward to seeing this month the latest child poverty stats
will be coming out and I am almost certain that
(12:12):
they will be worse than they were last year. So
just the summ up, Jamie. We can leave it to
politicians to beat around the bush and do nothing, or
those of us in that sort of maybe five percent,
you know, who really don't need it at the moment,
Why don't we just take this thing into our hands
as the coalition of the willing, look at our marcal
(12:34):
Pont and say we're going to make a difference for
a little while or forever or for whatever. I'm going
to give this much money. This is my super to
share my super and all of that money will share
my super doesn't take any of it. All of it
goes to twelve charities who have proven they're making a
difference to our morcal who are in poverty.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
Saren Tayler, thanks so much for your time today in
the country. Really looking forward to with the Prince of
the Provinces Marta Shane Jones, Thanks for your time.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
Thanks Jamis
So you've heard from Prime Minister Christopher Luxen to dig
or not to dig in Central Otago for gold. Just
reminding you this is what he said earlier in the
show Who's right Shane Jones or Saren Taylor when it
comes to gold mining at Bendigo in Central Otago? Is
this the national good? Or is this a nimbiaism?
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Now?
Speaker 3 (00:21):
Look, I mean we've got to get more mining underway
in this country. I mean we are blessed with a
bunch of critical minerals, which is where the future is
going to be. With AI and super conducted chips and
all those good things. They create high paying jobs in
regional New Zealand. And we also need mining. Frankly, if
you want to make the transition to evs and solar panels, well,
whether that or come from it comes from minerals on
(00:43):
the ground. So you know, we really want to open
up mining. We think there's a huge opportunity to create
high paying jobs in regional New Zealand.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
So there we go. Saren Taylor joins us, and why
don't you want to create high paying jobs in regional
New Zealand. Good afternoon, New Zealand time.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Hey, well it's interesting. The Prime Minister didn't address my
article at all. See he's addressed what everyone who's supporting
mining does. They go straight to mining minerals across the country. Now,
my discussion here and the debate I will have with Shame,
(01:20):
isn't about mining minerals. It's about mining gold. And the
Prime Minister just attributed gold because I'm only talking about
one mind, it's the one in Bendigo, And the Prime
Minister just attributed the one mineral they're going to take
out of the ground there gold to being the secret
to all of our answers for AIVS, all of it.
(01:45):
It's not used in any of those. It's put in
the ground, in safes, made into jewelry. I think it's
a I can't remember what the percentage that's actually used
in anything electronic or technically advanced, but it's monistic. And
if they truly believed in that, then there's plenty of
gold in the world already that has been mined that
(02:07):
could do everything we need to do. So the people
sort of opposing the argument I've put keep jumping to
mining everywhere. I didn't mention mining anywhere else other than then.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
To go okay, is that nimbism. Is that nimbidism, you
might Sir Sam Nil, Sir Graham Sidney just not wanting
that in their backyard.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Well, the backyard we're talking about is all of New Zealand.
I mean the backyard we're talking about is drives tourism
in New Zealand, it drives horticulture and New Zealand. It
dries murticulture in New Zealand. It is part of our
part of the reputation we have around the country. That's
why people come to Queenstown, That's why people come to Itaga.
(02:55):
It's and again it's that really narrow argument that people
have gone. They're not debating me on the one mine
I mentioned, and now they moved to nimbiasm to claim
that this is us back arguing about our backyard. It's
not our backyard. It's the country's backyard. And it's the
Piman still wants to talk about creating jobs. Otarget has
(03:17):
one of the lowest unemployments in the country.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
You talked about gold gold mine, and gold's very valuable
recently at record highs. Can we afford to leave it
sitting there? I'm playing Devil's advocate.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Sure, So you just jumped to it recently, recently at
that recently at record levels today plummeting. So it's a
volatile market, and it's valuable only because we put it
back into space and into the ground. So the question
(03:49):
we ask, and we're talking about one mine, not all minds,
one mine, and we're talking about a teaspoon of gold
that requires one thousand tons of ground to be dug
up out of the earth and creating a whole I
haven't said don't do it. I have just said don't
fast track it because there are too many questions. And
(04:11):
my argument is is the risk reward valid for this
particular mind?
Speaker 1 (04:18):
Seren Taylor with US Shane Johnes said it's behind a while,
no one's going to see it anyhow, But.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
That doesn't address my question. It can be anywhere you like.
My question is, are we prepared to create a toxic
lake that has a dam that is the height of
the Clyde Dam put it in a place where I mean,
there's an argument whether people will see it or not,
but that argument is relevant, irrelevant. Let's assume people don't
(04:48):
see it at all, but there will be a toxic
dam with arthmic and a whole lot of other things
sitting on in a seismic region where we know we're
going to have an earthquake, and it's sitting up there forever.
What for a tea spoon of gold?
Speaker 1 (05:06):
The Prime Minister was talking about high paying jobs and
regional New Zealand, and I note on the story in
the Otago Daily Times yesterday, you're talking about one hundred
percent pure New Zealand brand. Can that provide as many jobs?
Speaker 2 (05:23):
Yes? And I guess not to not to preclude what
I'll be debating with the Jones, but there is a solution.
There is a huge solution for high value jobs in
the region, and it actually has to do with a
replacement for minerals. And maybe just to give you a
(05:46):
flight hint of where I'll be going on this, but
most of all of the most of the fossil frees,
mine and debt up actually the result of millions and
millions and millions of years of trees beneath the ground.
So there's a whole other area which well, look, I'll
(06:07):
mention it here. So they claim that three billion dollars
in it has a three billion dollar lift to our GDP. Well,
I'm on a group called the New Zealand Product Accelerator.
We've been around for fifteen years and the job of
that Product Accelerator is a look to look at science
and technology that's being developed in New Zealand and how
(06:27):
it will benefit the country. So one of the research
papers we've done, independent research suggests that New Zealand bioforestry,
which actually accesses a whole lot of the things that
are needed for today's electronic economy, is worth between twelve
and thirty billion a year. And what are we doing.
(06:47):
We're going down digging into the ground. Gold isn't an
example of it, but digging into the ground to pull
up stuff that actually began its life as trees and
billions of years ago. So there is another argument that's
being ignored by everybody who wants to go mining.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
Shane Jones says, and I'm quoting again from the Otago
Daily Times mining was neither funded nor delivered in the
way it was thirty to fifty years ago. He goes
on to say, the next generation, we're looking to the
government to create new options in the extractive sector. What
do you say to that.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
No, he's taken a step. Yes, the next year, the
next generation is and you know, my argument here has
always been about the next generation. I'm here with my grandchildren,
and I have a thing. I call it the coalition
of the willing. And to belong to the coalition of
the willing each day you need to be able to
(07:43):
look for grandchildren in the eye and say, today I
did something that will make a difference for you. So
I've got my grandkids over here, and this debate I'm
having with Shane is along those lines. It's about our
walk upon it. Now. He just defined what the future
because he said it's their responsibility to advance extractive solutions.
(08:06):
Let's just take extractive out of it. The government or
our job as grandparents, our job as politicians is definitely
to look at the future generations. And if we were
being really genuine about it, could I look my grandson
in the eye and say, Hey, we're just going to
do a really cool thing. We are going to create
(08:26):
a toxic lake at the top of a mountain above
the waterways that feed all of Central Otago and the
New Zealand economy, tourism, viticulture, horticults and the jobs they
have already created. Am I able to look them into
the eye and say, and you know what, I can
guarantee you one hundred percent that that poison Lake will
(08:49):
stay on the top of that hill forever.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
Do that, Saren Taylor, have you got a date and
a venue for this debate? I want to get some
popcorn and go along.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Well, I'm working with Shane now to put this in context.
I've had discussion. I've known much of a judge for
a very long time. I mean, I was born in Cayo,
come from the same place, and you know, I love
the discussions we have and I'm looking forward to this.
We haven't got a date yet. I'm away overseas for
(09:22):
a couple of weeks. I'm in touch with his office.
We're hoping to hold it in I had originally thought
that we'd hold it in the Tariff Community Center, but
just in hindsight, I then thought, well, actually that may
disadvantage Shane and the debate, although that wouldn't worry him,
(09:42):
but there I am placing it right in the context
where he might have a lot of people yelling at
himddle or a lot of people yelling at me. So
I'm just looking for I think I've got it a
place where the debate will only be Shane and I
and a moderator, so I would hope that we would
have that debate in the you know, he mentioned our
(10:03):
Polynesian voyages, and I hope we will have that in
the spirit of pacifica conversations, which is tullernoah and Talernoa means,
no matter your point of view, you always sit, you
talk and listen with respect, and I think we have
more chance of doing that. It's just Shane and.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
I Sarrien Taylor with us. Just while I've got you
and I'm running out of time, but I want to
ask you about this one. You're big on Share my Super. Look,
if you can afford to give you superannuation, if you
don't need it to someone in need, here's my question
for you. Surely, when it comes to the age of
eligibility for national super, the first step would be raising
the age of eligibility to sixty seven.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
Well, I do have a viewer on that, and you know,
maybe before I got involved with Share my Super, I
would have argued that as well. But what I've discovered is,
and what we're seeing increasingly, is that there are people
hitting the age of sixty five, some even younger than that,
who are really really struggling to survive, and if this
(11:08):
cost of living carries on age of our eligibility is
almost that kind of the latest thing from rich people
as well. You know, I can wait till I'm sixty seven.
I'm okay, but actually we need to step back, and
you know, I don't have the answer. You know, there's
means testing, there's all sorts of other things, but this
(11:28):
has been sitting in the hands of politicians forever and
they doodle around the edges and shift making. A decision
to shift at sixty seven just means there's going to
be a whole lot more elderly people suffer, and that's
going to get worse if this cost of living crisis
keeps going the way it is. So the thing with
cheer my sup. It's really cool that you've asked now,
(11:49):
because we are about to relaunch the campaign we ran
last year, just as a reminders of people that if
you can share it, even for a short while, you
are making an enormous difference. And we are really looking
forward to seeing this month the latest child poverty stats
will be coming out and I am almost certain that
(12:12):
they will be worse than they were last year. So
just the summ up, Jamie. We can leave it to
politicians to beat around the bush and do nothing, or
those of us in that sort of maybe five percent,
you know, who really don't need it at the moment,
Why don't we just take this thing into our hands
as the coalition of the willing, look at our marcal
(12:34):
Pont and say we're going to make a difference for
a little while or forever or for whatever. I'm going
to give this much money. This is my super to
share my super and all of that money will share
my super doesn't take any of it. All of it
goes to twelve charities who have proven they're making a
difference to our morcal who are in poverty.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
Saren Tayler, thanks so much for your time today in
the country. Really looking forward to with the Prince of
the Provinces Marta Shane Jones, Thanks for your time.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
Thanks Jamis
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