May 8, 2025 • 8 mins
The Deputy PM (but not for much longer) and the NZ First Leader (probably forever) talks about his relationship with the media, pay equity, trade deals and the glory days of his rugby career.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Well, as promised Winston Peter's deputy Prime Minister, not for
much longer. New Zealand First Leader, probably for a whole
lot longer. Winston, I want to kick off today's show
with the we cut from your loyal Lieutenant Matua Shane Jones,
the Prince of the Provinces. Have a listen to this
Hoskin keeps cutting my lunch. I arranged an interview with
you a day or so ago. This morning, I hear
(00:23):
you first thing on Hosking.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Have you no shame well? I and my leader, Winston Peters,
have a deep level of affection for your listenership and
you in particular. However, one third of the country's population
do live in Auckland and a fir swag them do
listen to Mike Hoskins, So you know needs must What.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Is it about you New Zealand First guys you all
call Hosking Hoskins.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Yeah, it could be a dialectoral thing from us from
the north. Too much pooh and power and Deli red wine.
I can't pull the account for that, So.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
There you go, Shane Jones. Last week on the Country,
Winston Peters joins us. I guess being called Mike Hoskins.
You could be called worse things like an arrogant, wokester loser. Gee,
you didn't spare the rod on r n Z Winston.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
Well, I don't like planned setups paid for by the
nazean taxpayer.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
The budget is coming up. Are n Z is generously funded?
Are they going to get a haircut?
Speaker 3 (01:21):
You'd have to ask the Minister for Broadcasting in the
Minneso Finance and they'll tell you you'll have to wait
till the twenty second of May.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
Part of your brand, if you want, is rgie bargie
with the media.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
No, that's not correct. But look I began my career
after six months in front of the High Court on
a very famous electoral petition where I was teethed out
of the result and we won. And the next day
they weren't interested in the battle, the stripe and the
going forward and all the challenges we faced. All they
(01:58):
were interested in is what are you going to do
with your back pay? Which I thought was disgusting. And
really the issue was about I think called democracy and
not cheating in election times.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
So that was way back in the late seventies, you know,
five five decades on, do you think you've earned. Do
you think the media give you your due respect? No?
Speaker 3 (02:20):
And I don't care about that, because you know in
the twenty twenty three campaign they utterly boycotted all my meetings.
We were packing the halls all over his ear. We're
making a comeback. And then when they thought, hang on,
he might just get back, they rushed off to the
national paid leader. Luxeman said him over and over again,
why don't you all amount, why don't you all am out? Now?
This is not neutrality, this is not independence. This is
(02:44):
unspeakable bias and the game paid for by the taxpayer.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
Changing tact here, part of me wishes you were still
happy to be the MP for Taalrona, because if you were,
you might make it a bit cheaper for people like
me who have got family and business interests in the
Bay a plenty to get there. I see you were
having a crack at air in New Zealand around the
cost of some of their regional flights, and I say,
all power to you.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
Well, look when it's easier and cheaper to fly aboard
than to fly around one's own country. And this is
a country where the provinces generate the economy to the
backbone of the economy. It's sbably not great. So I
made this statement, which I think is obvious pay equity.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
There was some interesting jabs in the house. You said
we should be more concerned about what a woman is
rather than pay equity. Chris Hapkins, to be fair, landed
a good shot on you. He said, is your definition
of a woman someone who gets paid less than a man?
Speaker 2 (03:45):
Now?
Speaker 1 (03:45):
Audrey young At, writing in The Herald, said the pay
equity ambush will come back to bite the Nats and
in brackets. I guess the coalition government, what do you
think or is this just going to help us save
or balance the books for the budget.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
Look, the reality is that the law which was changed
in twenty twenty with the agreement of every party in
Parliament simply wasn't working because the so called comparative between
equity profession by profession just doesn't make any sense. It's
not logical and we have always been and we've proven
(04:22):
it over a long time. For an increase in the
minimum wage and for increase in wages, but we've said
over that same time, you've got to cut business taxes
so they can pay their workers more. We have got
to go for a growth strategy that actually works, where
the ceous added value in wealth creation and exporting drive
(04:43):
does what we did in the fifties and the sixties
when we were number two or three in the world.
It's not that complicated. But of course back then they
had members of parliament who are practical, not just coming
straight a university with no experience at all.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
Well, talk about exporting. You will be buoyed by the
fact that the u UK's been able to get a
free trade agreement with India at bodeswell for us.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
Well, we've got to remember this that the UK is
a much better economy and it would be much easier
for them to get a trading arrangement with India than
a small country like ours. But our job is to
go out and work to our max to get the
best we possibly can with a fast rising, seriously rising
and very very successful economy. And if we focus on that,
(05:31):
we can do it.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
Saka starm A not very popular on the domestic front,
especially with farmers and his inheritance tax, but it'll be
fair to say he's making a bit of a mark
on the world stage. He's managed to massage Donald Trump's
ego and get a trade agreement between the US and
the UK, and it would be fair to say that
you urged us a few weeks ago to calm the
(05:54):
farm when it comes to Trump and as tariffs and trade.
Do you think you've been vindicated in saying that.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
Yes, it makes no sense to think out loud. Our
job is to be forces, take the best counsel, wait
to the dust settles, and then work on getting the
outcome that we see. And what concerned me at the
time was so many people were saying it means this,
this and this, when they had no idea what it means.
(06:21):
But UK has just proven that.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
I know you're not a big fan of arin Z.
Do you read the Herald the website.
Speaker 3 (06:30):
If I'm trying to put Mogodon out of business? Yes?
I do.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
Okay, Well, there's a very good story in there today
written by Phil Gifford, and I'm sure you're well aware
of Phil, and he's named the six Moss famous. If
you want almost all blacks, he's got my old mate
Dave Halligan, and there Bob Graham, Alan Dawson, Dwayne Monkeley,
Greg Denham. I'm sure you know Greg Denham. But the
other one is Brian going and I'm thinking Northland. Brian
(06:54):
was the first five eight. You were a second five eight.
Did you play with them or against him?
Speaker 3 (06:59):
Yeah? Northern Irey was an open captain of the open
Mari side and I played for alongside him in the
North versus South Marie game a long way back. But
of course Bryan's problem was that Sid was the first
Rade All Black and Ken his brother got to be
an All Black, so three a three was going to
be very difficult for Brian.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
What about Greg Denham, the big strong prop He was
a lawyer, wasn't he.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
Yes? I played rugby with him as up university as well,
and of course he started off at the sentisory quarter.
But he's a big, strong and fast and he's the
only person I know who turned back a chance to
play in the All Blacks twice because the second time
in particular, he had a law practice and he couldn'tford
to lose it.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
So I'll tell you what. During the course of this chat,
which has gone for six or seven minutes, the most
animated you've been is when you talked rugby.
Speaker 3 (07:49):
I No, I'm very animated when I talk about a
lot of other things in which I've got a passive interest.
But you happen to remind me of a time long
gone by, and yes, one memory, so he'll recall those things.
You know. I was a country boy that came to
Orkand and one of the best things that happened to
me was I made the York University side. And now
you've got alongside a whole of these people from far
(08:10):
better schools, and all of a suddenly discover hangline minute.
They might have gone to better schools, but they're no
better than we are. And our job was to learn.
And when you talk it to from the country to universities,
you know, your focus is almost like you can't see
with great clarity. And certainly you've got a great education,
greater communication, greater influences, and all of a sudden the
(08:31):
world's your Western It was great.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
There you go. And if you come from a farm,
you've always got a good work ethic. Winston Peter's Deputy
Prime Minister, New Zealand First leader. Keep up the war
on woke. We'll see you later.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
Thank you, Cheers,
Well, as promised Winston Peter's deputy Prime Minister, not for
much longer. New Zealand First Leader, probably for a whole
lot longer. Winston, I want to kick off today's show
with the we cut from your loyal Lieutenant Matua Shane Jones,
the Prince of the Provinces. Have a listen to this
Hoskin keeps cutting my lunch. I arranged an interview with
you a day or so ago. This morning, I hear
(00:23):
you first thing on Hosking.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Have you no shame well? I and my leader, Winston Peters,
have a deep level of affection for your listenership and
you in particular. However, one third of the country's population
do live in Auckland and a fir swag them do
listen to Mike Hoskins, So you know needs must What.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Is it about you New Zealand First guys you all
call Hosking Hoskins.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Yeah, it could be a dialectoral thing from us from
the north. Too much pooh and power and Deli red wine.
I can't pull the account for that, So.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
There you go, Shane Jones. Last week on the Country,
Winston Peters joins us. I guess being called Mike Hoskins.
You could be called worse things like an arrogant, wokester loser. Gee,
you didn't spare the rod on r n Z Winston.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
Well, I don't like planned setups paid for by the
nazean taxpayer.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
The budget is coming up. Are n Z is generously funded?
Are they going to get a haircut?
Speaker 3 (01:21):
You'd have to ask the Minister for Broadcasting in the
Minneso Finance and they'll tell you you'll have to wait
till the twenty second of May.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
Part of your brand, if you want, is rgie bargie
with the media.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
No, that's not correct. But look I began my career
after six months in front of the High Court on
a very famous electoral petition where I was teethed out
of the result and we won. And the next day
they weren't interested in the battle, the stripe and the
going forward and all the challenges we faced. All they
(01:58):
were interested in is what are you going to do
with your back pay? Which I thought was disgusting. And
really the issue was about I think called democracy and
not cheating in election times.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
So that was way back in the late seventies, you know,
five five decades on, do you think you've earned. Do
you think the media give you your due respect? No?
Speaker 3 (02:20):
And I don't care about that, because you know in
the twenty twenty three campaign they utterly boycotted all my meetings.
We were packing the halls all over his ear. We're
making a comeback. And then when they thought, hang on,
he might just get back, they rushed off to the
national paid leader. Luxeman said him over and over again,
why don't you all amount, why don't you all am out? Now?
This is not neutrality, this is not independence. This is
(02:44):
unspeakable bias and the game paid for by the taxpayer.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
Changing tact here, part of me wishes you were still
happy to be the MP for Taalrona, because if you were,
you might make it a bit cheaper for people like
me who have got family and business interests in the
Bay a plenty to get there. I see you were
having a crack at air in New Zealand around the
cost of some of their regional flights, and I say,
all power to you.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
Well, look when it's easier and cheaper to fly aboard
than to fly around one's own country. And this is
a country where the provinces generate the economy to the
backbone of the economy. It's sbably not great. So I
made this statement, which I think is obvious pay equity.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
There was some interesting jabs in the house. You said
we should be more concerned about what a woman is
rather than pay equity. Chris Hapkins, to be fair, landed
a good shot on you. He said, is your definition
of a woman someone who gets paid less than a man?
Speaker 2 (03:45):
Now?
Speaker 1 (03:45):
Audrey young At, writing in The Herald, said the pay
equity ambush will come back to bite the Nats and
in brackets. I guess the coalition government, what do you
think or is this just going to help us save
or balance the books for the budget.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
Look, the reality is that the law which was changed
in twenty twenty with the agreement of every party in
Parliament simply wasn't working because the so called comparative between
equity profession by profession just doesn't make any sense. It's
not logical and we have always been and we've proven
(04:22):
it over a long time. For an increase in the
minimum wage and for increase in wages, but we've said
over that same time, you've got to cut business taxes
so they can pay their workers more. We have got
to go for a growth strategy that actually works, where
the ceous added value in wealth creation and exporting drive
(04:43):
does what we did in the fifties and the sixties
when we were number two or three in the world.
It's not that complicated. But of course back then they
had members of parliament who are practical, not just coming
straight a university with no experience at all.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
Well, talk about exporting. You will be buoyed by the
fact that the u UK's been able to get a
free trade agreement with India at bodeswell for us.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
Well, we've got to remember this that the UK is
a much better economy and it would be much easier
for them to get a trading arrangement with India than
a small country like ours. But our job is to
go out and work to our max to get the
best we possibly can with a fast rising, seriously rising
and very very successful economy. And if we focus on that,
(05:31):
we can do it.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
Saka starm A not very popular on the domestic front,
especially with farmers and his inheritance tax, but it'll be
fair to say he's making a bit of a mark
on the world stage. He's managed to massage Donald Trump's
ego and get a trade agreement between the US and
the UK, and it would be fair to say that
you urged us a few weeks ago to calm the
(05:54):
farm when it comes to Trump and as tariffs and trade.
Do you think you've been vindicated in saying that.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
Yes, it makes no sense to think out loud. Our
job is to be forces, take the best counsel, wait
to the dust settles, and then work on getting the
outcome that we see. And what concerned me at the
time was so many people were saying it means this,
this and this, when they had no idea what it means.
(06:21):
But UK has just proven that.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
I know you're not a big fan of arin Z.
Do you read the Herald the website.
Speaker 3 (06:30):
If I'm trying to put Mogodon out of business? Yes?
I do.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
Okay, Well, there's a very good story in there today
written by Phil Gifford, and I'm sure you're well aware
of Phil, and he's named the six Moss famous. If
you want almost all blacks, he's got my old mate
Dave Halligan, and there Bob Graham, Alan Dawson, Dwayne Monkeley,
Greg Denham. I'm sure you know Greg Denham. But the
other one is Brian going and I'm thinking Northland. Brian
(06:54):
was the first five eight. You were a second five eight.
Did you play with them or against him?
Speaker 3 (06:59):
Yeah? Northern Irey was an open captain of the open
Mari side and I played for alongside him in the
North versus South Marie game a long way back. But
of course Bryan's problem was that Sid was the first
Rade All Black and Ken his brother got to be
an All Black, so three a three was going to
be very difficult for Brian.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
What about Greg Denham, the big strong prop He was
a lawyer, wasn't he.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
Yes? I played rugby with him as up university as well,
and of course he started off at the sentisory quarter.
But he's a big, strong and fast and he's the
only person I know who turned back a chance to
play in the All Blacks twice because the second time
in particular, he had a law practice and he couldn'tford
to lose it.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
So I'll tell you what. During the course of this chat,
which has gone for six or seven minutes, the most
animated you've been is when you talked rugby.
Speaker 3 (07:49):
I No, I'm very animated when I talk about a
lot of other things in which I've got a passive interest.
But you happen to remind me of a time long
gone by, and yes, one memory, so he'll recall those things.
You know. I was a country boy that came to
Orkand and one of the best things that happened to
me was I made the York University side. And now
you've got alongside a whole of these people from far
(08:10):
better schools, and all of a suddenly discover hangline minute.
They might have gone to better schools, but they're no
better than we are. And our job was to learn.
And when you talk it to from the country to universities,
you know, your focus is almost like you can't see
with great clarity. And certainly you've got a great education,
greater communication, greater influences, and all of a sudden the
(08:31):
world's your Western It was great.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
There you go. And if you come from a farm,
you've always got a good work ethic. Winston Peter's Deputy
Prime Minister, New Zealand First leader. Keep up the war
on woke. We'll see you later.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
Thank you, Cheers,
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