September 8, 2026 • 8 mins
The PM ponders Paris and whether we should be getting out of the Accord. We also discuss Labour’s ETS U-turn on pricing agricultural emissions, the Greens’ supermarket plans, and whether the Opportunity Party bubble has burst.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Wednesdays on the country, the Prime Minister kicks off the show.
Christopher Luxon, do you realise I haven't chatted to you
for over a month? And a month ago, you were
on the ropes. There was talk of a coup. You
were going to be a gone burger. You've had a
better month than me, to be fair, the past month.
Good afternoon.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Good afternoon. It's great to be with you. It's great
to hear your dulcet tones on the country yet again.
And no, mate, you've been through the total mill, haven't you?
I mean, it's great that you've come through the other side.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Well, I'm blaming Auckland. It's either the ZB100, the super
spreader event for Influenza A, or the open day at
the Karangahaiki City Rail Link. It was very interesting, by
the way, going down and having a look at it.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Yeah, I love your conspiracy theory.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
We all blame Auckland for everything. Hey, talking about Auckland.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
I was just thinking of the CRL, though, because we're
opening that officially on Friday, which will be great, and
it's been a long time coming. It's probably cost more
than it should have, but at the end of the day,
it's here, and it's a great opportunity for that city
that gets bigger and denser to actually get a lot
of stuff happening above the ground, above the CRL as well.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
I was very impressed. It's very pristine. It's very well done.
I just wish I didn't put my hands on the...
The rail of the escalator. Anyhow, talking about Auckland, rural
New Zealand is going to be voting centre right, but
rural New Zealand won't sway the election. What will sway
the election is those people who are going to be
travelling on the city rail link. Auckland will win or
(01:25):
lose the election. What's your feeling on that?
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Oh, look, I think, well, I sort of have a
view of an MMP system, a party vote, and it's
important to get as many of them as you possibly can,
because that's actually what determines the shape of any government.
And that's why I keep saying we don't need any
strategic voting whatsoever. It just needs to be party vote national,
because that gives us the best cabinet that we can
possibly get to run things with. But look, I mean,
(01:49):
I think the choice is pretty clear now, and I
think people up and down the country, whether they're in
Auckland or elsewhere, kind of get it. Labour and their
mates want to introduce nine new taxes. We want no
new taxes. And as a consequence, that choice is really clear.
And you're saying... They're going straight back to what they
did in that six-year period, spend more, borrow more, tax more,
and it's as simple as that. And we've got growth
coming in the economy. It's been really exciting, Jamie. Probably
(02:11):
while you've been away, actually, there's been a lot of
economists that are coming out saying, hey, listen, this economy's
growing quicker than we thought it would do and better
than we thought it would do. Not everyone's still feeling it,
but the really good signs are there. So it's pretty encouraging.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Hey, what do you make or what did you make
of Labour's emissions policy announcement around the ETS yesterday? You realise,
of course, there's a certain irony in this that you
now have more in common with Labour than you do
with your Coalition Partners Act and New Zealand First when
it comes to, for instance, the Paris Agreement. You and
Chippy are in agreement on that.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
What a load of rubbish. What a load of rubbish. Now,
he was talking about an ETS piece of wanting to
actually drive the ETS price up And that just is
like another tax on hardworking Kiwis. So that was about
an ETS policy announcement yesterday. That means they want to
drive up the carbon price. I'm telling you, that's just
going to add cost to households. higher electricity bills, more
(03:06):
expensive petrol, higher cost to get your food from farm
to home. And if you think about it, like I
think I looked at it quickly, like a $ 50 increase
to the ETS price or the carbon price would add
about $ 400 extra a year on every Kiwi household. So,
you know, that was just another blatant tax grab is
what that was.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
Yeah, but he does agree with you. He does agree
with you, Prime Minister, around the Paris Agreement. He's not
getting out of it.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
The government agrees with that, right?
Speaker 1 (03:31):
Well, not really. The other two don't agree. Are you
going to get them to come to the altar?
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Pretty simple. It's an economic issue, right? It's an economic issue.
I'm telling you, New Zealand farmers and New Zealanders would
be poorer if we came out of Paris because the
first thing that happens, as I've said to you before,
is that competitor countries, think Denmark and Netherlands, are very
close on our heels as good agricultural countries. Think about
the big, large multinationals that buy our dairy products. The
first thing they do is kick us all off shelf
(03:58):
and nothing more to do that. So we're not giving
them an excuse to do that and we're not going
to make every New Just remember, Paris is, you know,
we're going to do, we'll try and meet our targets.
But as you've seen, our government, we haven't introduced agricultural pricing.
We haven't put agriculture into the ETS. I think agriculture
can increase productivity and also lower emissions at the same
(04:20):
time through the adoption of technology. And we're seeing that.
This economy in the last quarter had a record low
level of emissions that we've had on record since 2010.
We've run with 96.4% electricity, renewable electricity in the last
quarter as well. So, you know, it's sort of happening anyway.
And that's my point is like, if you look out
to net zero 2050, you know, it's happening. We're on
(04:41):
track for it. We might even do it a bit earlier.
There's heaps of technology coming into the market that's actually
changing and meaning that people are getting more productive and
able to manage emissions well. So, you know, it's not
really something I'm sort of, you know, super, super optimistic
angst about. But I'm just telling you, it would be
a massive, it would be against our economic interest to
come out. And that's why the coalition government said no,
we're staying in Paris. I appreciate parties have different views.
(05:04):
But the other thing I'd say to you very clearly,
and I've been very strong about that, is we ain't
sending a dollar overseas. We are going to have every
dollar invested in this country. So, you know, it's important.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
Talking about influenza, I'm hearing that Chippy's been a bit
crook with the flu. Does that explain his performance?
Speaker 2 (05:21):
Oh, look, I don't know. You'd have to talk to him.
All I'm doing is focused on what I've got to
be focused on now, which in the campaign is to
make the case for why National's the right party to
take New Zealand forward.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
Is the heat now on him?
Speaker 2 (05:33):
Well, we're focused on what we need to do for
the New Zealand people.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
No, but I'm talking about from a month ago when
we last chatted, the heat was on you. Now it
seems to be on the other Chris.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
Well, that's all for you and the commentary to make
your own pronouncements about Tata. But I'm just saying I'm
very focused about what I'm here to do. We've got
an election November the 7th. It's going to be very consequential.
I just need everybody to understand party vote national and
explain to them why and up to other parties to
do their thing as well.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
Has the opportunity party bubble burst? Because, I mean, this
is very crude back of the envelope mathematics here, but
it would kind of appear to me that if they
get past the 5% threshold, it's game on. change a
government is possible. If they don't, I think the status
quo remains.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Well, I mean, you heard us rule them out because
we don't want a 1.5% land tax or whatever it
is being levelled against everyone across the country. It was
really interesting. I met a young woman the other day
and she came up to me and just said, Chris,
I want to say thank you. I've managed with interest
rates and inflation, managed to buy my first house, been
a dream for eight years, managed to do it, really
(06:38):
excited about it, moving in in a couple of weeks.
And as I was driving home, I was thinking, man,
all of that money that she has saved and worked
so incredibly hard for to get that deposit for that
first home is gone bigger because essentially she's got to
pay a land tax, right? And it just wipes out
the equity of people. So, you know, just a land tax,
an inheritance slash debt tax, a gift tax, a capital
(06:59):
gains tax, you know, a wealth tax, you know, all
the proposals that Labour and their mates have got planned.
It's just not the way forward. Our economy's, you know,
growing strongly. It's picking up pace. That would be the
single biggest thing that would put an absolute stop to
it all. So, you know, we've got to grow the economy,
make life more affordable, set the country up for the
future for our kids and our grandkids. And I think
(07:19):
there's a very different set of policies.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
Will life be more affordable if Chloe gets her pack
in Soviet supermarket up and running?
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Well, again, you know, Hipkins and Chloe Swarbrick would have
to go find $ 3 billion. How are they going to
find that? And I just don't think government officials running
around with clipboards assessing the price of oranges is actually
the way you deal with that. What you've got to
do is deal with the inhibitors for why people, how
do we get more competition to the market? A lot
of it is it's been really difficult to actually get
(07:49):
something done. If you want to come from overseas and
set up a supermarket chain in New Zealand, you've got
to deal with 82 different building concept authorities at the moment.
So you build a supermarket in Christchurch and you build
one in Dunedin, And it's completely different rules or interpretations
of the building code. You just want to land your supermarket,
get it done, get it built, get it erected very quickly.
(08:09):
But resource consenting, building consenting, all of that stuff's been
an absolute nightmare. And that's why we've thrown into the
fast track. We've said if anyone wants to come, come
to use the Christchurch standard or the building code interpretation.
And yet, you know, the Greens oppose fast track. If
you seriously think of government, you know, just think KiwiBuild, right,
when the government tried to get in to do, you know,
homes and they didn't deliver. Think about this KiwiMux. Sounds
(08:32):
very Soviet to me.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
You enjoy your weekend, Prime Minister. I know you'll be
a keen viewer like the rest of the nation for
the WAS. And when you're going to travel there on
that city rail link, remember to take your hand sanitiser
with you. You don't want influenza A. Take it from me.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
Hey, look, it's great to have you back on the air.
So really great to be talking to you again, Jamie.
You take care, please.
Wednesdays on the country, the Prime Minister kicks off the show.
Christopher Luxon, do you realise I haven't chatted to you
for over a month? And a month ago, you were
on the ropes. There was talk of a coup. You
were going to be a gone burger. You've had a
better month than me, to be fair, the past month.
Good afternoon.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Good afternoon. It's great to be with you. It's great
to hear your dulcet tones on the country yet again.
And no, mate, you've been through the total mill, haven't you?
I mean, it's great that you've come through the other side.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Well, I'm blaming Auckland. It's either the ZB100, the super
spreader event for Influenza A, or the open day at
the Karangahaiki City Rail Link. It was very interesting, by
the way, going down and having a look at it.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Yeah, I love your conspiracy theory.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
We all blame Auckland for everything. Hey, talking about Auckland.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
I was just thinking of the CRL, though, because we're
opening that officially on Friday, which will be great, and
it's been a long time coming. It's probably cost more
than it should have, but at the end of the day,
it's here, and it's a great opportunity for that city
that gets bigger and denser to actually get a lot
of stuff happening above the ground, above the CRL as well.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
I was very impressed. It's very pristine. It's very well done.
I just wish I didn't put my hands on the...
The rail of the escalator. Anyhow, talking about Auckland, rural
New Zealand is going to be voting centre right, but
rural New Zealand won't sway the election. What will sway
the election is those people who are going to be
travelling on the city rail link. Auckland will win or
(01:25):
lose the election. What's your feeling on that?
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Oh, look, I think, well, I sort of have a
view of an MMP system, a party vote, and it's
important to get as many of them as you possibly can,
because that's actually what determines the shape of any government.
And that's why I keep saying we don't need any
strategic voting whatsoever. It just needs to be party vote national,
because that gives us the best cabinet that we can
possibly get to run things with. But look, I mean,
(01:49):
I think the choice is pretty clear now, and I
think people up and down the country, whether they're in
Auckland or elsewhere, kind of get it. Labour and their
mates want to introduce nine new taxes. We want no
new taxes. And as a consequence, that choice is really clear.
And you're saying... They're going straight back to what they
did in that six-year period, spend more, borrow more, tax more,
and it's as simple as that. And we've got growth
coming in the economy. It's been really exciting, Jamie. Probably
(02:11):
while you've been away, actually, there's been a lot of
economists that are coming out saying, hey, listen, this economy's
growing quicker than we thought it would do and better
than we thought it would do. Not everyone's still feeling it,
but the really good signs are there. So it's pretty encouraging.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Hey, what do you make or what did you make
of Labour's emissions policy announcement around the ETS yesterday? You realise,
of course, there's a certain irony in this that you
now have more in common with Labour than you do
with your Coalition Partners Act and New Zealand First when
it comes to, for instance, the Paris Agreement. You and
Chippy are in agreement on that.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
What a load of rubbish. What a load of rubbish. Now,
he was talking about an ETS piece of wanting to
actually drive the ETS price up And that just is
like another tax on hardworking Kiwis. So that was about
an ETS policy announcement yesterday. That means they want to
drive up the carbon price. I'm telling you, that's just
going to add cost to households. higher electricity bills, more
(03:06):
expensive petrol, higher cost to get your food from farm
to home. And if you think about it, like I
think I looked at it quickly, like a $ 50 increase
to the ETS price or the carbon price would add
about $ 400 extra a year on every Kiwi household. So,
you know, that was just another blatant tax grab is
what that was.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
Yeah, but he does agree with you. He does agree
with you, Prime Minister, around the Paris Agreement. He's not
getting out of it.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
The government agrees with that, right?
Speaker 1 (03:31):
Well, not really. The other two don't agree. Are you
going to get them to come to the altar?
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Pretty simple. It's an economic issue, right? It's an economic issue.
I'm telling you, New Zealand farmers and New Zealanders would
be poorer if we came out of Paris because the
first thing that happens, as I've said to you before,
is that competitor countries, think Denmark and Netherlands, are very
close on our heels as good agricultural countries. Think about
the big, large multinationals that buy our dairy products. The
first thing they do is kick us all off shelf
(03:58):
and nothing more to do that. So we're not giving
them an excuse to do that and we're not going
to make every New Just remember, Paris is, you know,
we're going to do, we'll try and meet our targets.
But as you've seen, our government, we haven't introduced agricultural pricing.
We haven't put agriculture into the ETS. I think agriculture
can increase productivity and also lower emissions at the same
(04:20):
time through the adoption of technology. And we're seeing that.
This economy in the last quarter had a record low
level of emissions that we've had on record since 2010.
We've run with 96.4% electricity, renewable electricity in the last
quarter as well. So, you know, it's sort of happening anyway.
And that's my point is like, if you look out
to net zero 2050, you know, it's happening. We're on
(04:41):
track for it. We might even do it a bit earlier.
There's heaps of technology coming into the market that's actually
changing and meaning that people are getting more productive and
able to manage emissions well. So, you know, it's not
really something I'm sort of, you know, super, super optimistic
angst about. But I'm just telling you, it would be
a massive, it would be against our economic interest to
come out. And that's why the coalition government said no,
we're staying in Paris. I appreciate parties have different views.
(05:04):
But the other thing I'd say to you very clearly,
and I've been very strong about that, is we ain't
sending a dollar overseas. We are going to have every
dollar invested in this country. So, you know, it's important.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
Talking about influenza, I'm hearing that Chippy's been a bit
crook with the flu. Does that explain his performance?
Speaker 2 (05:21):
Oh, look, I don't know. You'd have to talk to him.
All I'm doing is focused on what I've got to
be focused on now, which in the campaign is to
make the case for why National's the right party to
take New Zealand forward.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
Is the heat now on him?
Speaker 2 (05:33):
Well, we're focused on what we need to do for
the New Zealand people.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
No, but I'm talking about from a month ago when
we last chatted, the heat was on you. Now it
seems to be on the other Chris.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
Well, that's all for you and the commentary to make
your own pronouncements about Tata. But I'm just saying I'm
very focused about what I'm here to do. We've got
an election November the 7th. It's going to be very consequential.
I just need everybody to understand party vote national and
explain to them why and up to other parties to
do their thing as well.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
Has the opportunity party bubble burst? Because, I mean, this
is very crude back of the envelope mathematics here, but
it would kind of appear to me that if they
get past the 5% threshold, it's game on. change a
government is possible. If they don't, I think the status
quo remains.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Well, I mean, you heard us rule them out because
we don't want a 1.5% land tax or whatever it
is being levelled against everyone across the country. It was
really interesting. I met a young woman the other day
and she came up to me and just said, Chris,
I want to say thank you. I've managed with interest
rates and inflation, managed to buy my first house, been
a dream for eight years, managed to do it, really
(06:38):
excited about it, moving in in a couple of weeks.
And as I was driving home, I was thinking, man,
all of that money that she has saved and worked
so incredibly hard for to get that deposit for that
first home is gone bigger because essentially she's got to
pay a land tax, right? And it just wipes out
the equity of people. So, you know, just a land tax,
an inheritance slash debt tax, a gift tax, a capital
(06:59):
gains tax, you know, a wealth tax, you know, all
the proposals that Labour and their mates have got planned.
It's just not the way forward. Our economy's, you know,
growing strongly. It's picking up pace. That would be the
single biggest thing that would put an absolute stop to
it all. So, you know, we've got to grow the economy,
make life more affordable, set the country up for the
future for our kids and our grandkids. And I think
(07:19):
there's a very different set of policies.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
Will life be more affordable if Chloe gets her pack
in Soviet supermarket up and running?
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Well, again, you know, Hipkins and Chloe Swarbrick would have
to go find $ 3 billion. How are they going to
find that? And I just don't think government officials running
around with clipboards assessing the price of oranges is actually
the way you deal with that. What you've got to
do is deal with the inhibitors for why people, how
do we get more competition to the market? A lot
of it is it's been really difficult to actually get
(07:49):
something done. If you want to come from overseas and
set up a supermarket chain in New Zealand, you've got
to deal with 82 different building concept authorities at the moment.
So you build a supermarket in Christchurch and you build
one in Dunedin, And it's completely different rules or interpretations
of the building code. You just want to land your supermarket,
get it done, get it built, get it erected very quickly.
(08:09):
But resource consenting, building consenting, all of that stuff's been
an absolute nightmare. And that's why we've thrown into the
fast track. We've said if anyone wants to come, come
to use the Christchurch standard or the building code interpretation.
And yet, you know, the Greens oppose fast track. If
you seriously think of government, you know, just think KiwiBuild, right,
when the government tried to get in to do, you know,
homes and they didn't deliver. Think about this KiwiMux. Sounds
(08:32):
very Soviet to me.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
You enjoy your weekend, Prime Minister. I know you'll be
a keen viewer like the rest of the nation for
the WAS. And when you're going to travel there on
that city rail link, remember to take your hand sanitiser
with you. You don't want influenza A. Take it from me.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
Hey, look, it's great to have you back on the air.
So really great to be talking to you again, Jamie.
You take care, please.
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