May 11, 2026 • 10 mins
Labour’s Ag Spokesperson says NZ was not a “Land of Confusion” under the Labour Govt of 2020-23. Plus, we talk about the sale of farms to foreigners, legislation to liberalise the gene tech laws, and whether Labour needs TPM to win the Treasury Benches.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
A land of confusion by genesis? Was that what we
had in twenty twenty to twenty twenty three under Jacinda
and Chris Hipkins. Let let me ask the man who
was Minister of Agriculture and Trade. To be fair, he
did a good job on trade, Damien O'Connor. Was it
a land of confusion back in those dark old times?
Speaker 2 (00:20):
That's such a terrible, vicious National Party rhetoric that you repeat.
We had a few challenges. I don't know whether you noticed, Jamie.
You might have been hiding under a bush somewhere, but
I think we did pretty well actually, and compared to
most other countries in the world, we were highly acknowledged
and appreciated for our efforts.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
Okay, let's go to the future, not the past now.
I'd arranged yesterday for you to come on to the
show and have a friendly, friendly chat with me, and
I said, just drop me a text with a couple
of topics that you might like to cover. Of course,
you never bothered getting back to me in time. Before midday.
We were having some phone issues I had to done
(01:00):
for Emma Higgins. But meanwhile, here's a text and hot
off the press from Shane Jones any space this week.
I want to talk about fuel doc reform, local government reform,
Malory Party reform. Now there's a politician, Damian O'Connor Honor's
game front footing up.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Oh really okay here? Well, aside from going to the
I guess the Defense Industry Awards and then to a
funeral of my cousin or an event last night, now,
I didn't have time to text back. I'm sorry about that, Jamie.
If you don't know what should be the issues that
you questioned the opposition on, then maybe in the wrong game.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
No, no, no, I'm just I'm just I'm just giving
you the opportunity to raise some of your preferred topics.
I've got plenty of topics I can throw at you.
Don't worry about that. I was just giving I was
just giving you the I was giving you the opportunity
to leed, to get on the front foot and lead
with something you'd like to talk about.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Hey, can I can? I appreciate that. And one of
the things that I did text about to you later,
it was is the sale of three farms at Clyde
Vale where the Overseas Investment Office said no, they shouldn't
be sold to foreigners. In the two minuts is one
from Act and one from National said yes, we'll override
that and they will be sold to foreigners. And debt
is concerning many in the dairy industry.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
Okay, I can see that, mind you, what about all
the farms that we sold, because I'm going to be
talking to a dog trial guy up next, and he
was lamenting when I was teeing up the interview yesterday.
He was just lamenting the fact that they've lost all
this good sheep and beef country on which to work
their dogs, Damien, because it's gone into trees. And I
(02:34):
can blame or I blame Shane Jones for some of it,
but that's pre twenty twenty. In the second cycle of
that government. It was your lot.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
No, you can. We put the brakes on it. Actually,
although it's been ignored and forgotten by yourself, we did
put the brakes on. Shane insisted that the door be
opened for foreigners to buy production forest for farms for production.
We never allowed finners to buy it for carbon farms.
And indeed it is a sad outcome. But you should
ask Shane about that.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Yeah, but whose fault was it? Then? We're going to
look back in this and look back in history in
years to come and go, what the hell were we thinking?
Because you're blaming Shane. Shane's blaming you. National's blaming you,
You're blaming National. The fact that is, we've got large
tracts of land hang on Damien that did go to
carbon farming. I seriously doubt whether they will these pine
(03:26):
plantations will ever be harvested. They're just going to be
a blight on our landscape. Not to mention an environmental threat.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Well, you have to talk to the forest industry and
alternative income stream through drystock farming and say which one
gives the most. You have to talk to the farmers
who sold and tell them why they should get less
for their land. It's a complex issue, and I guess
most governments haven't been or have been reluctant and haven't
wanted to intervene on how farmers should sell land to
(03:57):
whom other than the one of foreign ownership. So land
news change has continued for as long as I've been
around Jamie, and I think that that that diversification, which
is what we call of their times.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
Yeah, but Damiennment government policy sent exactly the wrong signals,
and that's why we had this splurge of carbon farming.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
Be careful for what you asked for, because actually we
had had a simple carbon tax proposal that would have
helped address our international obligations and actually helped move to
to I guess electrification, it's the new word, but actually
the farmer's objected to that and we ended up with
an ETS And it's not been a perfect tool. In fact,
at times that's been really clumsy. But that's the one
(04:39):
that governments, and there have been a few of them,
have committed to. It has produced some of these perverse
outcomes in some areas, but ultimately, farmers have sold the
land to the person who gives them offers them the most,
and that's that's a critical issue for government to intervene on,
and most governments are reluctant to do that.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
Yeah, And to be honest, you can't blame farmers. You
and I both know this. You only get to sell
at once. So often it has sold, and more often
than not, and nearly all the time, to the highest bidder,
because if not to the highest bidder, that person can
then on sell it to the highest bidder. Hey, where
do you sit or where does labor sit around the
government still intending to pass legislation to liberalize these gene
(05:20):
technology laws because this is something that is dividing not
only politicians but also farmers.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
While not dividing us. We talked about making some changes
to genetic modification engineering legislation to our more research in
the lab. We didn't go so far as to say
we support any field growing trials or field trials of that.
So we oppose that the rush and funds of legislation
(05:49):
that Judas Columns put forward has just been stopped and
blocked at the moment. But you know, it's pretty dumb.
You know, we need to have a mature conversation about
where that science might assist us, where the potential risks are.
None of the government's consideration took into account the economic
impacts of introducing into our economy. That's pretty dumb. I
(06:12):
would say.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
Shane Shane Jones, if he was on the show today
instead of you, even though he was very well prepared,
he would like to talk would have liked to have
talked about local government reform. We all know it's necessary.
Where do you sit on the Stamian Well?
Speaker 2 (06:28):
I think we can have some changes, but forcing it
down the throats of people who are elected across our
country to try and do the right thing when they
have their hands tied regarding income, forcing them into something
in three months time is just ridiculous. It's unfair, it's unworkable,
and it will result in crazy outcomes. We need to
(06:48):
work through this really really carefully, and where we have
voluntary amalgamations and people working together, we should step in
the central government and help that. But what is proposed
from this government is just crazy.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
But you'd have to agree. Having a local body with
the population of I don't know. I'm just thinking of
the clue of district. I think it's seven or eight thousand,
don't quote me on that, but it's small. Next note
that these are ones that I know. Gore next door's
got twelve thousand or something like that. That's just too small.
There's no critical mass in there. There's no critical ratepayer mass.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
I look, I agree, there's Western District, there's Bulla district.
There are many of them across the country. But then
the next thing you'll be complaining about a some official
from the council comes in. You know, it hops in
a car and travels two hundred kilometers because it's still
within their district and tells you what to do and
has no understanding of the local area. You'll be jumping
up and down as well. So it's not just a
simple task of throwing everyone into one organization saying oh,
(07:44):
it's all going to be more efficient and better outcomes
that indeed may may produce the inverse of what we want.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
Let's finish with Shane's preferred final topic, Malori Party reform.
You realize, Amen, that any chance that you had or
a center left government had of winning the elections probably
going down the toilet because the Maori Party won't win
the Maori Party seats, although the Mariy seats get.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
A statement, just do some mathematics. Look, look we're doing
all right in the polls and it's moving out.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
Yeah no, I'm not arguing that. No, but you need
the don't you worrying about? You need the overhang that
the Maori seats bring you. It's party Marie gets what
two percent of the vote, and that they've got six
or seven seats.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
We are intending to win back all those Malory seats
and make sure that we have a stable government and
all the indications are from the polls is that that's
where we'll be after November.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
The stable in the Greens, should they be mentioned in
the same sentence.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
Of course they should. Most of the issues that they've
raised over the last thirty years had been very, very real.
How you implement them and bring them in is something
where you need a pragmatic leader, and that's Labor has
played a really significant part. We have worked with them
in the past. We haven't brought down the economy, we
haven't made things worse. In fact, we've had progressive, positive,
(09:04):
positive policies in working with the Greens, and we can
do that again.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
I'm worried about your memory. I think it's fading. You've
forgotten twenty twenty to twenty twenty three. Your financial policies
brought this nation to its knees. Damen, Oh for good.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
This crowd has borrowed more, given text cuts back, cut
the funding for public infrastructure and made things worse. What
are you saying about them?
Speaker 1 (09:30):
Well, the lesser of two evils is what I'm saying
at this stage, Damen.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
I'm saying we did have some costs related to COVID. Actually,
the cost of living did go up related to the
Ukraine War. Yes, we accept that this crowd has got
in and made it worse.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
Yeah, prior to Crow, I don't want to be a
defender of luxe in here, but he's had Trump's tariffs
last year, he's had Trump's war this year. They're fairly
challenging financial issues as well.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
Well. Well, yes, I accept that, but actually they gave
tech scots fourteen billion dollars they gave back to people.
No one really noticed that in their pockets, and that
it undermined the ability of government to spend money where
they should look at the roads that you drive on.
It's a good indication.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
Damien O'Connor, thanks for turning up and coming up with
at least one subject on this on the show today.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
Good on you, Jamie
A land of confusion by genesis? Was that what we
had in twenty twenty to twenty twenty three under Jacinda
and Chris Hipkins. Let let me ask the man who
was Minister of Agriculture and Trade. To be fair, he
did a good job on trade, Damien O'Connor. Was it
a land of confusion back in those dark old times?
Speaker 2 (00:20):
That's such a terrible, vicious National Party rhetoric that you repeat.
We had a few challenges. I don't know whether you noticed, Jamie.
You might have been hiding under a bush somewhere, but
I think we did pretty well actually, and compared to
most other countries in the world, we were highly acknowledged
and appreciated for our efforts.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
Okay, let's go to the future, not the past now.
I'd arranged yesterday for you to come on to the
show and have a friendly, friendly chat with me, and
I said, just drop me a text with a couple
of topics that you might like to cover. Of course,
you never bothered getting back to me in time. Before midday.
We were having some phone issues I had to done
(01:00):
for Emma Higgins. But meanwhile, here's a text and hot
off the press from Shane Jones any space this week.
I want to talk about fuel doc reform, local government reform,
Malory Party reform. Now there's a politician, Damian O'Connor Honor's
game front footing up.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Oh really okay here? Well, aside from going to the
I guess the Defense Industry Awards and then to a
funeral of my cousin or an event last night, now,
I didn't have time to text back. I'm sorry about that, Jamie.
If you don't know what should be the issues that
you questioned the opposition on, then maybe in the wrong game.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
No, no, no, I'm just I'm just I'm just giving
you the opportunity to raise some of your preferred topics.
I've got plenty of topics I can throw at you.
Don't worry about that. I was just giving I was
just giving you the I was giving you the opportunity
to leed, to get on the front foot and lead
with something you'd like to talk about.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Hey, can I can? I appreciate that. And one of
the things that I did text about to you later,
it was is the sale of three farms at Clyde
Vale where the Overseas Investment Office said no, they shouldn't
be sold to foreigners. In the two minuts is one
from Act and one from National said yes, we'll override
that and they will be sold to foreigners. And debt
is concerning many in the dairy industry.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
Okay, I can see that, mind you, what about all
the farms that we sold, because I'm going to be
talking to a dog trial guy up next, and he
was lamenting when I was teeing up the interview yesterday.
He was just lamenting the fact that they've lost all
this good sheep and beef country on which to work
their dogs, Damien, because it's gone into trees. And I
(02:34):
can blame or I blame Shane Jones for some of it,
but that's pre twenty twenty. In the second cycle of
that government. It was your lot.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
No, you can. We put the brakes on it. Actually,
although it's been ignored and forgotten by yourself, we did
put the brakes on. Shane insisted that the door be
opened for foreigners to buy production forest for farms for production.
We never allowed finners to buy it for carbon farms.
And indeed it is a sad outcome. But you should
ask Shane about that.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Yeah, but whose fault was it? Then? We're going to
look back in this and look back in history in
years to come and go, what the hell were we thinking?
Because you're blaming Shane. Shane's blaming you. National's blaming you,
You're blaming National. The fact that is, we've got large
tracts of land hang on Damien that did go to
carbon farming. I seriously doubt whether they will these pine
(03:26):
plantations will ever be harvested. They're just going to be
a blight on our landscape. Not to mention an environmental threat.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Well, you have to talk to the forest industry and
alternative income stream through drystock farming and say which one
gives the most. You have to talk to the farmers
who sold and tell them why they should get less
for their land. It's a complex issue, and I guess
most governments haven't been or have been reluctant and haven't
wanted to intervene on how farmers should sell land to
(03:57):
whom other than the one of foreign ownership. So land
news change has continued for as long as I've been
around Jamie, and I think that that that diversification, which
is what we call of their times.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
Yeah, but Damiennment government policy sent exactly the wrong signals,
and that's why we had this splurge of carbon farming.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
Be careful for what you asked for, because actually we
had had a simple carbon tax proposal that would have
helped address our international obligations and actually helped move to
to I guess electrification, it's the new word, but actually
the farmer's objected to that and we ended up with
an ETS And it's not been a perfect tool. In fact,
at times that's been really clumsy. But that's the one
(04:39):
that governments, and there have been a few of them,
have committed to. It has produced some of these perverse
outcomes in some areas, but ultimately, farmers have sold the
land to the person who gives them offers them the most,
and that's that's a critical issue for government to intervene on,
and most governments are reluctant to do that.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
Yeah, And to be honest, you can't blame farmers. You
and I both know this. You only get to sell
at once. So often it has sold, and more often
than not, and nearly all the time, to the highest bidder,
because if not to the highest bidder, that person can
then on sell it to the highest bidder. Hey, where
do you sit or where does labor sit around the
government still intending to pass legislation to liberalize these gene
(05:20):
technology laws because this is something that is dividing not
only politicians but also farmers.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
While not dividing us. We talked about making some changes
to genetic modification engineering legislation to our more research in
the lab. We didn't go so far as to say
we support any field growing trials or field trials of that.
So we oppose that the rush and funds of legislation
(05:49):
that Judas Columns put forward has just been stopped and
blocked at the moment. But you know, it's pretty dumb.
You know, we need to have a mature conversation about
where that science might assist us, where the potential risks are.
None of the government's consideration took into account the economic
impacts of introducing into our economy. That's pretty dumb. I
(06:12):
would say.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
Shane Shane Jones, if he was on the show today
instead of you, even though he was very well prepared,
he would like to talk would have liked to have
talked about local government reform. We all know it's necessary.
Where do you sit on the Stamian Well?
Speaker 2 (06:28):
I think we can have some changes, but forcing it
down the throats of people who are elected across our
country to try and do the right thing when they
have their hands tied regarding income, forcing them into something
in three months time is just ridiculous. It's unfair, it's unworkable,
and it will result in crazy outcomes. We need to
(06:48):
work through this really really carefully, and where we have
voluntary amalgamations and people working together, we should step in
the central government and help that. But what is proposed
from this government is just crazy.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
But you'd have to agree. Having a local body with
the population of I don't know. I'm just thinking of
the clue of district. I think it's seven or eight thousand,
don't quote me on that, but it's small. Next note
that these are ones that I know. Gore next door's
got twelve thousand or something like that. That's just too small.
There's no critical mass in there. There's no critical ratepayer mass.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
I look, I agree, there's Western District, there's Bulla district.
There are many of them across the country. But then
the next thing you'll be complaining about a some official
from the council comes in. You know, it hops in
a car and travels two hundred kilometers because it's still
within their district and tells you what to do and
has no understanding of the local area. You'll be jumping
up and down as well. So it's not just a
simple task of throwing everyone into one organization saying oh,
(07:44):
it's all going to be more efficient and better outcomes
that indeed may may produce the inverse of what we want.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
Let's finish with Shane's preferred final topic, Malori Party reform.
You realize, Amen, that any chance that you had or
a center left government had of winning the elections probably
going down the toilet because the Maori Party won't win
the Maori Party seats, although the Mariy seats get.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
A statement, just do some mathematics. Look, look we're doing
all right in the polls and it's moving out.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
Yeah no, I'm not arguing that. No, but you need
the don't you worrying about? You need the overhang that
the Maori seats bring you. It's party Marie gets what
two percent of the vote, and that they've got six
or seven seats.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
We are intending to win back all those Malory seats
and make sure that we have a stable government and
all the indications are from the polls is that that's
where we'll be after November.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
The stable in the Greens, should they be mentioned in
the same sentence.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
Of course they should. Most of the issues that they've
raised over the last thirty years had been very, very real.
How you implement them and bring them in is something
where you need a pragmatic leader, and that's Labor has
played a really significant part. We have worked with them
in the past. We haven't brought down the economy, we
haven't made things worse. In fact, we've had progressive, positive,
(09:04):
positive policies in working with the Greens, and we can
do that again.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
I'm worried about your memory. I think it's fading. You've
forgotten twenty twenty to twenty twenty three. Your financial policies
brought this nation to its knees. Damen, Oh for good.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
This crowd has borrowed more, given text cuts back, cut
the funding for public infrastructure and made things worse. What
are you saying about them?
Speaker 1 (09:30):
Well, the lesser of two evils is what I'm saying
at this stage, Damen.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
I'm saying we did have some costs related to COVID. Actually,
the cost of living did go up related to the
Ukraine War. Yes, we accept that this crowd has got
in and made it worse.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
Yeah, prior to Crow, I don't want to be a
defender of luxe in here, but he's had Trump's tariffs
last year, he's had Trump's war this year. They're fairly
challenging financial issues as well.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
Well. Well, yes, I accept that, but actually they gave
tech scots fourteen billion dollars they gave back to people.
No one really noticed that in their pockets, and that
it undermined the ability of government to spend money where
they should look at the roads that you drive on.
It's a good indication.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
Damien O'Connor, thanks for turning up and coming up with
at least one subject on this on the show today.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
Good on you, Jamie
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