May 13, 2026 • 6 mins
The NZ First leader and former Deputy PM is his normal combative self when it comes to NZF propaganda, TPM, and the age of eligibility for National Super. However, he has praise for Judith Collins and a convenient memory lapse when it comes to 2017.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Winston Peters joins us on the Country now has loyal
henchman Shane Jones actually texted me earlier in the week
and asked to be on the show today, but his
boss has palled Rank Winston. Just before we talk about
Shane and all the other exciting and wonderful things that
are happening in the world of politics and commerce, what's
the story of me appearing in some New Zealand first
(00:22):
propaganda clips on social media.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Look, I don't know, but I'm going to make an
inquiry to that because I don't want losing more votes.
I think it's been a bit of a it's been
a bit of a stoppage in our rise in the polls,
and I thought it might be down to that. And
by the way, I didn't call Rank. I mean this
is organized by media specialists, this interview, So I don't
know how organized this way today, But I'm happy to
be on your show and to give before brings in
(00:47):
common sense and logic to your discussion.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
Well, a couple of things Shane did want to talk
about in his text earlier this week was local government
reform and Maori Party reform. Now the clip the social
media propaganda featuring me in a very minor role, and
mainly you was actually about TA Party Murray and I'm
working on the theory that unless they won a number
(01:10):
of Maori seats, there's no way for Chippy to get
the treasury benches. You've been about a long time. You
can do the numbers. You'd concur with me, there, wouldn't you.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
I know, the reality is that the polls are far
too close for comfort and therefore, you know, this next
few months it is critical that the alternative to the
left wing and do I say the communists and racists
in the Murray Party has got to put in a
hard campaign. I won't take anything for granted. That's my point.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Where do you sit on local government reform? That's the
other one that Shane wanted to talk about, because I
think it's desperately needed.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Well, of course it's decerinately needed. It need serious rationalization.
But be careful here, be careful. Look, it's not one
case of one size fit's all. You'll be very very
careful going to make sure that the communities of interests
have shared concerns and shared policy interests meld together, like
(02:13):
we head up in Orkland where you had the super
city and you wound in Franklin all the way up
to Wilsford Way and it just was so done wrong.
And they did it theres no that they belonged to
the super city and it's wrong, and long then it's wrong. Now,
so let's be careful here. Don't most of them make
a mistake. But I do believe it's massively overdue.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
Yeah, but it's ridiculous that we have local body authorities
with populations of seven and twelve thousand. They just haven't
got the critical mass. Look that the core. I agree, Yeah, okay,
we agree. Let's disagree on something. And I'm not going
to go down this rabbit hole with you because I'm
wasting my time arguing with you. But at what point
do you roll over and say, yes, I was wrong
(02:53):
about the age of national of eligibility for national super
We're going to get to the stage under your anario
where we could have two workers for every one person
getting national superannuation. Totally unsustainable. Got to raise the age
of eligibility. Do we need to means test?
Speaker 2 (03:13):
You know, it's amazing to hear this sort of drivel
from you. Now here's the point the superinnuation is costing
five point two percent of GDP. That's half what some
countries have got. And then on top of that, we've
been saving four decades for the Column Fund to smooth
out the BOS and costs. That money in its burians
is all there, and you cannot make out the case
(03:33):
that we can't afford it. No, what i'mfraid I'm going
to tell you, Jamie is this. You've got certain people
in government who can't run the economy, and they're both
in labor and national and we're sending them. If you
can't run economy property, if you can't get a growth
made wave one about three percent, then get out of
the way and let somebody can on the economy. Property.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
Two workers for everyone, super annuitant is not sustainable.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
No, no, no, no, excuse me. See there's the first
fiction that's not true. They ever got AI coming, the
whole world changing dramatically. The real point is how much
is it against your DDP costs? And even it's only
five point two percent, it's dramatically less than other countries.
You've got a problem. We have not, and the very
idea of people are going to go on living longer. That's
all changing now with recent forecasts, because all this modern
(04:17):
food and more sorts of bad heart has meant that
this population that's coming is not like you live as
long as the population that you and I longed to
right here, right now.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
Hey, just a couple to finish on Judith Collins twenty
four years of service. I've always liked Judith. I thought
she might have been a better leader of the National
Party or a more popular one than she ended up being.
You clashed swords with her over the years, but got
along with it.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
I don't recall the clashing swords with it very much.
In fact that she will tell you that lecanto or
defense portfol you know what, it was the biggest sport,
or getting over the fund and the budget that she
desperately needed, and I understandingly moved her to tell you that.
But the reality is she got caught in the worst
possible circumstances in the middle of the COVID election. She
didn't have a hope in hades. And that's the way
(05:03):
it is sometimes. You know, things were just so bad
for the for the opposition back then that the Layer
Party was, you know, regarded as the podium of truth.
The left wing media was pushing them and the layer
of party won the whole election, won the election. But boy,
what a mistake that one. Within three years they've gone us.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
Yes, sir, who put them in there?
Speaker 2 (05:21):
Just to finish on where you put them in there?
Speaker 1 (05:24):
You put them in there, people like.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
John Key and you who ruled me out for years
when I'm out there campaigning.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
Hey, come on, I've known you. I've known you for
a long time. What radio show has always talked to
you through sick and thin?
Speaker 2 (05:38):
No, No, that's that's true. But you know that John
Key ruled me. I do you know all that, don't you?
Speaker 1 (05:41):
Bell English didn't rule you out.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
Oh, for goodness sake, he was part of the guy.
He was a deputy prime minister at the time they
were ruling me out. Haven't you guys got a memory?
Speaker 1 (05:51):
I sometimes wonder if you have. But anyhow, I'm just
a couple to finish on.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
Damn good memory. That's why I'm win in this argument.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
Just a couple to finish on where Streeting versus Sakia Starmer,
Trump versus President She. There are a couple of big
things happening in the world of politics at the moment
which will have an effect on.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
Us, well, most definitely. That's the point I know of
this is more acutely of concerning is you're nothing. There
has happened like this before in our whole lifetime, to
in the Second World War. So we're living in a
very difficult age. But I have to tell you in
this difficult age, j having experience matters in politics.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
Yes, it does, even if experience comes with memory loss
on occasion. Winston.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
No, no, no, sorry, sorry mate. The reason why I'm
standing up is I've got a damn good memory. Most
of you guys have got a convenient.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
Memory, RIGHTO. I'll forget all about twenty seventeen. It wasn't
your fault, Winston Peters. Thanks for your time on the country.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
Yes, my wife
Winston Peters joins us on the Country now has loyal
henchman Shane Jones actually texted me earlier in the week
and asked to be on the show today, but his
boss has palled Rank Winston. Just before we talk about
Shane and all the other exciting and wonderful things that
are happening in the world of politics and commerce, what's
the story of me appearing in some New Zealand first
(00:22):
propaganda clips on social media.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Look, I don't know, but I'm going to make an
inquiry to that because I don't want losing more votes.
I think it's been a bit of a it's been
a bit of a stoppage in our rise in the polls,
and I thought it might be down to that. And
by the way, I didn't call Rank. I mean this
is organized by media specialists, this interview, So I don't
know how organized this way today, But I'm happy to
be on your show and to give before brings in
(00:47):
common sense and logic to your discussion.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
Well, a couple of things Shane did want to talk
about in his text earlier this week was local government
reform and Maori Party reform. Now the clip the social
media propaganda featuring me in a very minor role, and
mainly you was actually about TA Party Murray and I'm
working on the theory that unless they won a number
(01:10):
of Maori seats, there's no way for Chippy to get
the treasury benches. You've been about a long time. You
can do the numbers. You'd concur with me, there, wouldn't you.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
I know, the reality is that the polls are far
too close for comfort and therefore, you know, this next
few months it is critical that the alternative to the
left wing and do I say the communists and racists
in the Murray Party has got to put in a
hard campaign. I won't take anything for granted. That's my point.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Where do you sit on local government reform? That's the
other one that Shane wanted to talk about, because I
think it's desperately needed.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Well, of course it's decerinately needed. It need serious rationalization.
But be careful here, be careful. Look, it's not one
case of one size fit's all. You'll be very very
careful going to make sure that the communities of interests
have shared concerns and shared policy interests meld together, like
(02:13):
we head up in Orkland where you had the super
city and you wound in Franklin all the way up
to Wilsford Way and it just was so done wrong.
And they did it theres no that they belonged to
the super city and it's wrong, and long then it's wrong. Now,
so let's be careful here. Don't most of them make
a mistake. But I do believe it's massively overdue.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
Yeah, but it's ridiculous that we have local body authorities
with populations of seven and twelve thousand. They just haven't
got the critical mass. Look that the core. I agree, Yeah, okay,
we agree. Let's disagree on something. And I'm not going
to go down this rabbit hole with you because I'm
wasting my time arguing with you. But at what point
do you roll over and say, yes, I was wrong
(02:53):
about the age of national of eligibility for national super
We're going to get to the stage under your anario
where we could have two workers for every one person
getting national superannuation. Totally unsustainable. Got to raise the age
of eligibility. Do we need to means test?
Speaker 2 (03:13):
You know, it's amazing to hear this sort of drivel
from you. Now here's the point the superinnuation is costing
five point two percent of GDP. That's half what some
countries have got. And then on top of that, we've
been saving four decades for the Column Fund to smooth
out the BOS and costs. That money in its burians
is all there, and you cannot make out the case
(03:33):
that we can't afford it. No, what i'mfraid I'm going
to tell you, Jamie is this. You've got certain people
in government who can't run the economy, and they're both
in labor and national and we're sending them. If you
can't run economy property, if you can't get a growth
made wave one about three percent, then get out of
the way and let somebody can on the economy. Property.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
Two workers for everyone, super annuitant is not sustainable.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
No, no, no, no, excuse me. See there's the first
fiction that's not true. They ever got AI coming, the
whole world changing dramatically. The real point is how much
is it against your DDP costs? And even it's only
five point two percent, it's dramatically less than other countries.
You've got a problem. We have not, and the very
idea of people are going to go on living longer. That's
all changing now with recent forecasts, because all this modern
(04:17):
food and more sorts of bad heart has meant that
this population that's coming is not like you live as
long as the population that you and I longed to
right here, right now.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
Hey, just a couple to finish on Judith Collins twenty
four years of service. I've always liked Judith. I thought
she might have been a better leader of the National
Party or a more popular one than she ended up being.
You clashed swords with her over the years, but got
along with it.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
I don't recall the clashing swords with it very much.
In fact that she will tell you that lecanto or
defense portfol you know what, it was the biggest sport,
or getting over the fund and the budget that she
desperately needed, and I understandingly moved her to tell you that.
But the reality is she got caught in the worst
possible circumstances in the middle of the COVID election. She
didn't have a hope in hades. And that's the way
(05:03):
it is sometimes. You know, things were just so bad
for the for the opposition back then that the Layer
Party was, you know, regarded as the podium of truth.
The left wing media was pushing them and the layer
of party won the whole election, won the election. But boy,
what a mistake that one. Within three years they've gone us.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
Yes, sir, who put them in there?
Speaker 2 (05:21):
Just to finish on where you put them in there?
Speaker 1 (05:24):
You put them in there, people like.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
John Key and you who ruled me out for years
when I'm out there campaigning.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
Hey, come on, I've known you. I've known you for
a long time. What radio show has always talked to
you through sick and thin?
Speaker 2 (05:38):
No, No, that's that's true. But you know that John
Key ruled me. I do you know all that, don't you?
Speaker 1 (05:41):
Bell English didn't rule you out.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
Oh, for goodness sake, he was part of the guy.
He was a deputy prime minister at the time they
were ruling me out. Haven't you guys got a memory?
Speaker 1 (05:51):
I sometimes wonder if you have. But anyhow, I'm just
a couple to finish on.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
Damn good memory. That's why I'm win in this argument.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
Just a couple to finish on where Streeting versus Sakia Starmer,
Trump versus President She. There are a couple of big
things happening in the world of politics at the moment
which will have an effect on.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
Us, well, most definitely. That's the point I know of
this is more acutely of concerning is you're nothing. There
has happened like this before in our whole lifetime, to
in the Second World War. So we're living in a
very difficult age. But I have to tell you in
this difficult age, j having experience matters in politics.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
Yes, it does, even if experience comes with memory loss
on occasion. Winston.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
No, no, no, sorry, sorry mate. The reason why I'm
standing up is I've got a damn good memory. Most
of you guys have got a convenient.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
Memory, RIGHTO. I'll forget all about twenty seventeen. It wasn't
your fault, Winston Peters. Thanks for your time on the country.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
Yes, my wife
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