July 13, 2026 • 9 mins
The deputy leader of the Opportunity Party denies they are a centre-left party, as we agree to disagree on a universal income and land tax.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Listen
Watch
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Well, this is a really interesting story, isn't it. The
latest Star in z poll out suggesting that if the
Opportunity Party was to get past five percent and they're
currently sitting at four point seven percent, we could get
a change of government to tell us more. Opportunity Party
deputy leader a bloke with the rural background, PR expert
(00:23):
Daniel Ebb. Daniel, We've doubt over the years through many things.
Now I'm talking to you as a potential minister in
a labor government.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Yeah, you put it like that. It sounds a little
bit startling, doesn't it.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Well, you didn't bite when I threw out a potential
minister in a labor government.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Oh and than a labor government. Listen, we're a centrist party. Mate.
There's a reason that I've decided to put on hold
all the sort of open farms, the agwork I've done
over the last couple of years because New Zealand's sort
of found itself in quite a tribal place when it
comes to politics. You've kind of got this sort of
(01:01):
pendulum that swings between a right leaning government to build
stuff and then a left Guinean government comes in and
erects it up for the next couple of years, and
so we're not really moving forward. We're kind of just
swinging from side to side. And so I can understand
why some people saying, oh, you go with the left
and now other people saying we'll go with the right
as the opportunity party. But we're not standing to solidify
(01:23):
either of those blocks. We're standing to be a actual
constructive centrist partner that can work with both of those.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
Well, let's be honest. You want to cut hang on, Daniel,
you want to cut Winston Peter's lunch. You guys want
to be the king maker. What surprises me so much?
And I know you're very smart at your job and
pr and you must be doing a good job because
you advertise, for God's sake, for a leader. You get
this young businesswoman who is your new leader. All of
(01:51):
a sudden, you're nudging the five percent threshold. It's like
you're the party political flavor of the month. What have
you actually done to deserve it?
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Fair or well, there's a lot in that. So to
your first question, yes, we are trying to displace New
Zealand first as the centrist party. I would argue that
they are no longer capable of being an effective centrist
party because they're clearly aligned to the rights, and so
it's important that we have political stability, like the schooling
(02:21):
systems that my keat is going to, the infrastructure systems
that I drive to work every day, the plumbing, all
that kind of stuff. All that stuff was kind of
generally built in the sixties and seventies and eighties at
a time when we had profound sense of political stability.
We've lost that now, and as a result, we've kind
of lost our way as a country. And so we
think that the ability to operate as a constructive centrist
(02:43):
partner that can hold both labor and national to account
is really really important in order that we build the
education systems and the pipes of the infrastructure that my
kids are going to grow up in. So, yeah, we
think we do need a centrist partner that can work
really really well with you.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
Yeah, Okay, Well, what about the voodoo economics and what
i'd call it a universal basic income or a universal wage?
Why are we bothering with that? How does that make
economic sense? Where's the incentive to get off your backside
and go and work and get ahead.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Sure, so at nineteen grand, a year. It's very difficult
to live on the citizen's income. It's not designed to
be a wage that everyone can use and knock out
and work. There is The data that we've seen from
trials overseas tell the opposite story. It gives people a
sense of security. You know. I've had some illness in
(03:35):
my family recently, so I had to step back from work.
But it wasn't enough to sort of go on to
a benefit or anything like that. I just needed three
months I could look after family members. But that is
a part of the world that we live in now,
and increasingly we need a social welfare system that can
handle massive job losses when AI kicks in, it can
handle economic shocks. The problem we've got right now with
(03:57):
our social benefit system is that it's complicated and full
of bureaucracy, Like you're going to spend more time on
the phone to wins saying, oh, my girlfriend stayed at
my house only two nights last week, so do I
still get the accommodation supplements. That's not an effective efficient system.
If we're going to do social welfare, let's write it
into code instead of having several thousand ministry.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
Yeah, that sounds fun. And practice, Daniel ab But who's
paying for this?
Speaker 2 (04:25):
So what do you pay for it? We put the
citizens income with a land value tax, So our tax
reset is basically two mechanisms for that work in tandem.
The citizens income ensures that we that every key we
get to the security and stability they need in order
to contribute to society, and we pay for that by
kind of throttling land value in New Zealand. That's sort
(04:48):
of the second fundamental problem that we're trying to address
is that we've put all of our capital into massively
overinflated land prices. And so with our land value tax,
which you mentioned one point seventy five percent on residential land,
zero point five percent on rural land, that creates sort
of the ability to shift capital from land to people,
(05:09):
which we think is really important going forward.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
I want to talk about your background. I think you
grew up on a farm in Northland.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
Grew up Yes, I was really lucky. I had a
really special upbringing, I think a really unique one. I
was both sort of suburban and rural, so I'd be
in Auckland during the weeks and then go up to
the family farm on weekend. So I'd be sort of
pitching journo's my mum's communications business and then going banging
fence post with dad on the weekend. So I'm considering
(05:38):
myself pretty lucky to have that.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
You realize that a center left government with the Greens
having a big say and it could be the death
now for farming in this country? Does that not worry you?
Speaker 2 (05:49):
I don't think that kind of rhetoric. Is that helpful?
You know?
Speaker 1 (05:52):
Well, well what I came on, I'm going to hold
pull you up on that. Why is it not helpful?
We know what the Greens policies are they and I'm
not saying they would get them through. I'm hoping that
labor would have enough sense to forge their own policies.
I'm still waiting for some of their policies. At least
you guys have got some. But tell me what's going
to be good about a center left government for New
Zealand farmers.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
Well, I won't defend the Green's policies, so they're indefensible. Yeah,
I won't talk to their policies. I'll only talk So.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
Now you agree with me on that one. Yeah, But
I mean all this playing king maker and we're a
centrist Party. We're going to go either way. That's bollocks, Daniel.
You and I both know that there's only one way
the Opportunity Party is going to go if you get
past five percent, and that is in coalition with Labor, which,
(06:42):
if we're to believe the current pulse, would swing the
pendulum in favor of a center left government.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
I can understand where you're coming from, mate, I can
understand that. But New Zealand does not need another party
added to the left flock. It does not need an
the party added to the white block. Like all of
us have come from startup businesses, we've got families. Why
we go through the ringer of politics just to add
to the problem. And so you know, there's lots of
(07:13):
different things in our country that need more stability added
to it. Farming is one of them, Environmental protection is another,
long term infrastructure development, a superannuation plan that actually acknowledges
that we are on a fiscal you know, we're heading
towards a fiscal cliff. Like those things are sacrificing because
we haven't got a party that can work with both sides.
(07:33):
And so I take this to the bank right now.
We will not pick a side. It's important that we
can retain the ability to both work with national and
both work and work with labor. You know, we've made
it very clear that we will start negotiations with the
party with the largest vote share after the election because
we think that delivers more stable.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
Well, which will we labor.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
We don't know what the poling says right now, it's
what three four percent in it? Who knows?
Speaker 1 (08:03):
Just to finish on, Daniel ab and I do appreciate
your time. I don't agree with the citizen's income, I
don't agree with the land value text. But you've got
three major policy platforms and I totally agree with your
third one compulsory key WE saver. And it would appear
to me that there seems to be a bit of
a bipartisan approach right across the political spectrum for us
(08:24):
to do this as a nation.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
Yeah, there absolutely is this bipartisan approach to QE. Say,
with this now bipartisan approach to solar and residential bills,
we're sort of getting to some biparts an approach on infrastructure.
So our big question is why isn't it happening? Why
have we not got a thirty year intergenerational infrastructure plan.
Why do we not have a ten year cross party
(08:49):
health plan? These things are required. You know, you look
at places like Singapore, right, you know, they are who
they are as a nation, and they are where they
are because they've had decades of politicals to ability. That's
the fundamental issue that we're trying to solve as a party.
You know, I love our policies. Our policies are great,
but really what we need is a constructive centrist player
(09:11):
that can sit labor and national down and say, hey,
you too, sign up to an intergenerational infrastructure plan, Let's
agree on how we're going to treat superannuation for the
next thirty forty to fifty years. We cannot move forward
as a country until we've got those things. And so
I appreciate you saying, oh, we're just going to be
a lefty party all that kind of stuff, but that's
not what we're standing for, because that's not what New
(09:32):
Zealand needs.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
I can agree on the latter. Daniel Leeb, Deputy Leader
of the Opportunity Party. It's going to be a fascinating
run into that November seven election. We will keep in touch.
Thanks for your time.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
Nor thanks mate,
Well, this is a really interesting story, isn't it. The
latest Star in z poll out suggesting that if the
Opportunity Party was to get past five percent and they're
currently sitting at four point seven percent, we could get
a change of government to tell us more. Opportunity Party
deputy leader a bloke with the rural background, PR expert
(00:23):
Daniel Ebb. Daniel, We've doubt over the years through many things.
Now I'm talking to you as a potential minister in
a labor government.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Yeah, you put it like that. It sounds a little
bit startling, doesn't it.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Well, you didn't bite when I threw out a potential
minister in a labor government.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Oh and than a labor government. Listen, we're a centrist party. Mate.
There's a reason that I've decided to put on hold
all the sort of open farms, the agwork I've done
over the last couple of years because New Zealand's sort
of found itself in quite a tribal place when it
comes to politics. You've kind of got this sort of
(01:01):
pendulum that swings between a right leaning government to build
stuff and then a left Guinean government comes in and
erects it up for the next couple of years, and
so we're not really moving forward. We're kind of just
swinging from side to side. And so I can understand
why some people saying, oh, you go with the left
and now other people saying we'll go with the right
as the opportunity party. But we're not standing to solidify
(01:23):
either of those blocks. We're standing to be a actual
constructive centrist partner that can work with both of those.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
Well, let's be honest. You want to cut hang on, Daniel,
you want to cut Winston Peter's lunch. You guys want
to be the king maker. What surprises me so much?
And I know you're very smart at your job and
pr and you must be doing a good job because
you advertise, for God's sake, for a leader. You get
this young businesswoman who is your new leader. All of
(01:51):
a sudden, you're nudging the five percent threshold. It's like
you're the party political flavor of the month. What have
you actually done to deserve it?
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Fair or well, there's a lot in that. So to
your first question, yes, we are trying to displace New
Zealand first as the centrist party. I would argue that
they are no longer capable of being an effective centrist
party because they're clearly aligned to the rights, and so
it's important that we have political stability, like the schooling
(02:21):
systems that my keat is going to, the infrastructure systems
that I drive to work every day, the plumbing, all
that kind of stuff. All that stuff was kind of
generally built in the sixties and seventies and eighties at
a time when we had profound sense of political stability.
We've lost that now, and as a result, we've kind
of lost our way as a country. And so we
think that the ability to operate as a constructive centrist
(02:43):
partner that can hold both labor and national to account
is really really important in order that we build the
education systems and the pipes of the infrastructure that my
kids are going to grow up in. So, yeah, we
think we do need a centrist partner that can work
really really well with you.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
Yeah, Okay, Well, what about the voodoo economics and what
i'd call it a universal basic income or a universal wage?
Why are we bothering with that? How does that make
economic sense? Where's the incentive to get off your backside
and go and work and get ahead.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Sure, so at nineteen grand, a year. It's very difficult
to live on the citizen's income. It's not designed to
be a wage that everyone can use and knock out
and work. There is The data that we've seen from
trials overseas tell the opposite story. It gives people a
sense of security. You know. I've had some illness in
(03:35):
my family recently, so I had to step back from work.
But it wasn't enough to sort of go on to
a benefit or anything like that. I just needed three
months I could look after family members. But that is
a part of the world that we live in now,
and increasingly we need a social welfare system that can
handle massive job losses when AI kicks in, it can
handle economic shocks. The problem we've got right now with
(03:57):
our social benefit system is that it's complicated and full
of bureaucracy, Like you're going to spend more time on
the phone to wins saying, oh, my girlfriend stayed at
my house only two nights last week, so do I
still get the accommodation supplements. That's not an effective efficient system.
If we're going to do social welfare, let's write it
into code instead of having several thousand ministry.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
Yeah, that sounds fun. And practice, Daniel ab But who's
paying for this?
Speaker 2 (04:25):
So what do you pay for it? We put the
citizens income with a land value tax, So our tax
reset is basically two mechanisms for that work in tandem.
The citizens income ensures that we that every key we
get to the security and stability they need in order
to contribute to society, and we pay for that by
kind of throttling land value in New Zealand. That's sort
(04:48):
of the second fundamental problem that we're trying to address
is that we've put all of our capital into massively
overinflated land prices. And so with our land value tax,
which you mentioned one point seventy five percent on residential land,
zero point five percent on rural land, that creates sort
of the ability to shift capital from land to people,
(05:09):
which we think is really important going forward.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
I want to talk about your background. I think you
grew up on a farm in Northland.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
Grew up Yes, I was really lucky. I had a
really special upbringing, I think a really unique one. I
was both sort of suburban and rural, so I'd be
in Auckland during the weeks and then go up to
the family farm on weekend. So I'd be sort of
pitching journo's my mum's communications business and then going banging
fence post with dad on the weekend. So I'm considering
(05:38):
myself pretty lucky to have that.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
You realize that a center left government with the Greens
having a big say and it could be the death
now for farming in this country? Does that not worry you?
Speaker 2 (05:49):
I don't think that kind of rhetoric. Is that helpful?
You know?
Speaker 1 (05:52):
Well, well what I came on, I'm going to hold
pull you up on that. Why is it not helpful?
We know what the Greens policies are they and I'm
not saying they would get them through. I'm hoping that
labor would have enough sense to forge their own policies.
I'm still waiting for some of their policies. At least
you guys have got some. But tell me what's going
to be good about a center left government for New
Zealand farmers.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
Well, I won't defend the Green's policies, so they're indefensible. Yeah,
I won't talk to their policies. I'll only talk So.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
Now you agree with me on that one. Yeah, But
I mean all this playing king maker and we're a
centrist Party. We're going to go either way. That's bollocks, Daniel.
You and I both know that there's only one way
the Opportunity Party is going to go if you get
past five percent, and that is in coalition with Labor, which,
(06:42):
if we're to believe the current pulse, would swing the
pendulum in favor of a center left government.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
I can understand where you're coming from, mate, I can
understand that. But New Zealand does not need another party
added to the left flock. It does not need an
the party added to the white block. Like all of
us have come from startup businesses, we've got families. Why
we go through the ringer of politics just to add
to the problem. And so you know, there's lots of
(07:13):
different things in our country that need more stability added
to it. Farming is one of them, Environmental protection is another,
long term infrastructure development, a superannuation plan that actually acknowledges
that we are on a fiscal you know, we're heading
towards a fiscal cliff. Like those things are sacrificing because
we haven't got a party that can work with both sides.
(07:33):
And so I take this to the bank right now.
We will not pick a side. It's important that we
can retain the ability to both work with national and
both work and work with labor. You know, we've made
it very clear that we will start negotiations with the
party with the largest vote share after the election because
we think that delivers more stable.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
Well, which will we labor.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
We don't know what the poling says right now, it's
what three four percent in it? Who knows?
Speaker 1 (08:03):
Just to finish on, Daniel ab and I do appreciate
your time. I don't agree with the citizen's income, I
don't agree with the land value text. But you've got
three major policy platforms and I totally agree with your
third one compulsory key WE saver. And it would appear
to me that there seems to be a bit of
a bipartisan approach right across the political spectrum for us
(08:24):
to do this as a nation.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
Yeah, there absolutely is this bipartisan approach to QE. Say,
with this now bipartisan approach to solar and residential bills,
we're sort of getting to some biparts an approach on infrastructure.
So our big question is why isn't it happening? Why
have we not got a thirty year intergenerational infrastructure plan.
Why do we not have a ten year cross party
(08:49):
health plan? These things are required. You know, you look
at places like Singapore, right, you know, they are who
they are as a nation, and they are where they
are because they've had decades of politicals to ability. That's
the fundamental issue that we're trying to solve as a party.
You know, I love our policies. Our policies are great,
but really what we need is a constructive centrist player
(09:11):
that can sit labor and national down and say, hey,
you too, sign up to an intergenerational infrastructure plan, Let's
agree on how we're going to treat superannuation for the
next thirty forty to fifty years. We cannot move forward
as a country until we've got those things. And so
I appreciate you saying, oh, we're just going to be
a lefty party all that kind of stuff, but that's
not what we're standing for, because that's not what New
(09:32):
Zealand needs.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
I can agree on the latter. Daniel Leeb, Deputy Leader
of the Opportunity Party. It's going to be a fascinating
run into that November seven election. We will keep in touch.
Thanks for your time.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
Nor thanks mate,
Popular Podcasts
Betrayal Weekly
Betrayal Weekly is back for a new season. Every Thursday, Betrayal Weekly shares first-hand accounts of broken trust, shocking deceptions, and the trail of destruction they leave behind. Hosted by Andrea Gunning, this weekly ongoing series digs into real-life stories of betrayal and the aftermath. From stories of double lives to dark discoveries, these are cautionary tales and accounts of resilience against all odds. From the producers of the critically acclaimed Betrayal series, Betrayal Weekly drops new episodes every Thursday. If you would like to share your story, you can reach out to the Betrayal Team by emailing them at betrayalpod@gmail.com and follow us on Instagram at @betrayalpod and @glasspodcasts. Please join our Substack for additional exclusive content, curated book recommendations, and community discussions. Sign up FREE by clicking this link Beyond Betrayal Substack. Join our community dedicated to truth, resilience, and healing. Your voice matters! Be a part of our Betrayal journey on Substack.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com