May 18, 2026 • 10 mins
The Prince of the Provinces, the Mighty Matua, reflects on his debate yesterday in Queenstown, where he was outnumbered on electrification vs fossil fuels. We also discuss the fuel crisis, Lake Onslow, the public service, regional councils, and whether he and Winston are barking up the wrong tree and are barking mad in wanting to buy the BNZ.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Change oones, amongst other things. He wears many hats as
the Minister of Resources. We're going to talk about fuel
and how much we've got and whether the fuel crisis
is lessening. But talking about fuel change oones. You were
in Queenstown yesterday at an electrify Queenstown debate, you would
(00:20):
have been the odd man out there, wouldn't you. Everyone
else wants to electrify. You want to dig, baby dig
and burn coal.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Ah. Yes, I was in Queenstown yesterday and there are
a few in the audience who wanted to electric out
the good matur because of my views about fossil fuels.
But oh look, I've got to go into the lines
den occasionally. Full marks for the people that sponsored the conference,
your local council down there. They promoted the event and
quite a few of the things that were being said.
(00:48):
You have to agree with them, but we cannot completely
rule out coal or gas. Now we had chippy there
he's a winger, stands up with his ginger up kind
of plaintive voice, completely overlooking the fact that they ruined
the gas industry, gave an AI generated speech, some kind
(01:09):
of computer generated narrative, and then he wouldn't stand up
in the debate, and he got Meghan and she refused
to apologize for canceling the oil and gas industry. But
other than that, David Seymour and I we traded barbs.
But that's part of the humor of the event. In
Simeon sat there claiming unwisely that the FastTrack legislation was
(01:32):
national policy. It was Shane and Winston who bought the
FastTrack into the coalition agreement. Of course it's so successful
in the National Party and now claiming it there is
no place for magpie behavior in the world of coalition politics.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
Mind j Meghan Woods was blaming you for kicking to
touch like Onslow and I've always struggled with the theory
of using energy to pump water up hell just to
catch energy on the way down, but apparently it works.
Have we made a mistake there?
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Well, no, I'm advice that David's Parker and the most
famous engineer in my lifetime as Keith Turner. They are
still working on it, and they're confident that they can
fund it predominantly without a cash injection from the Crown,
and if they're able to find some customers and make
it work all power to their hand. I think that
(02:27):
we do need to damn another river somewhere. Of course,
Kiwis will ever agree. I never agree with that we
need to accelerate chi thermil Look, Kiwi's listening to this
highly popular program. If you want energy, we have to
expand supply. If you want affordable energy, we need to
cut the gentailors and in half. And just as we're
going to deal to the calcified attitudes and the oligopolies
(02:50):
that comprise the banking sector, we are going to smash
the gentailors in half. What's what happens on novemb of
the night.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
I'm going to come back to the banks because I
think Ean Winston have got that badly wrong. But let's
just stick with energy. You're the Minister of Resources. Is
the fuel crisis lessening?
Speaker 2 (03:09):
Well, sadly, prices are spiking, But you know as well
as I do in the OECD ranks, and also in
relation to a number of our Southeast Asian neighbors, we
do have the ability to pay. We do not have
the fiscal headroom to continually subsidize gas prices in New Zealand. Therefore,
(03:32):
we're going to have to learn to cope with expanded prices.
You and I know that our agricultural sector is very resilient.
Supply is continuing to work as intended with our statutory
obligations that the oil and import companies have to abide by.
(03:53):
But look, no one's exaggerating how challenging it is made.
And I do feel for our productive sector and the household,
but we should be very proud of the fact that
our government imposed some obligations on the fuel important companies.
They wanted a just in time model. And the only
thing that we're battling with is when Jacinda closed down
(04:13):
the Marsdenpoint refinery and destroyed seven hundred and ten million
liters of storage capacity, which I had to save with
the money to recommission one hundred million liters of additional storage,
something that Labor and Megan refused to do. Didn't find
the money. Sadly, the good Matua I was able to
(04:36):
do that, and that will be full of diesel during
the course of the next month.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
That's almost as many letters as trees you wanted to
plant misguidedly.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
Oh look I'm not it's not as incapable of learning lessons.
We've moved on from that phase of point.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
Okay, the billion dollar tree man is now history. What
about the public service reform?
Speaker 2 (04:56):
There?
Speaker 1 (04:57):
I see Nikola wants to cut the numbers down. And
I was reading online this morning when Chasinda, when you'll
mate Winston put Jacinda in In twenty seventeen, there was
forty eight thousand in the public sector December of last year.
Last head count that I can see sixty three thousand,
six hundred. Nikola wants to get it down to fifty
(05:17):
five thousand and twenty twenty nine, back to one percent
of the population. What do they all do?
Speaker 2 (05:23):
Well? There is a famous saying. From time to time
you have to mow the lawn, and if you don't
mow the lawn, all sorts of strange weeds kaikuia. You
probably don't have that grass down in the South Island.
I don't even know if the farmers so past Pellam
We used to have it as kids on our farm. Yeah,
certain weeds grow and look a bit of mowing now
and again doesn't go astray. But we need to bear
(05:47):
in mind these are fellow Kiwis we're talking about, and
providing that the positions they occupy have a legitimate role,
then they're safe if they are fill agree, and they're
not contributing towards productivity. Our finance minister is saying that
they can be rationalized and there'll be space because the
(06:07):
private sector will grow in order to deliver other goods
and services that the public sector can no longer is
no longer needed. I mean, I can only look at
my beloved fishing industry and indeed the resource sector. There
are people occupying positions in those areas where perhaps technology
and a more rational approach means that the industry can
(06:29):
deliver them rather than the state. And I think that
that's an important debate we need to have. And also, mate,
we've got to grow the economy. We've got to grow jobs,
we've got to grow exports, and to do that we
need to change the law from time to time encourage investment,
and we're going to have to take risks. You ought
to know. One of the reasons why our power prices
(06:52):
are high is because just Sinder and Megan canceled at
oil and gas industry. So why don't we expand geothermal energy,
make certain zones capable of growing energy because you won't
need a resource consent, and also go overseas and see
if the Japanese will come here off the coast of
South Island. Work with the crowd will help derisk it
(07:13):
and actually find some new areas of oil and gas
and restarter for a new industry.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
How are you getting on getting rid of regional councils?
Speaker 2 (07:23):
Well, that workers underway with my colleagues from the National Party.
I mean, obviously I'm not the minister, but there is
no place for these regional councils, as is the example
you've referred to down your neck of the woods and Otarger.
I mean, Otigo was built on a gold rush. I
just didn't know that a golden like dome would emerge
in terms of your new regional council building down there.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
Not to mention the xenram, Rightyo, let's address the elephant
in the rome. What the hell I mean you and
Winston put your cinder in. I'll forgive you for that.
I don't know if I can actually the billion trees.
I don't know if I can forgive you for that either. Shame.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
But buy in isn't all bad? Is not all bad?
Speaker 1 (08:02):
But buying buying the B and Z, what is Winston thinking?
This is just plain politicking.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
The banking sector, the power sector, the supermarket sector represent calcified, monopolistic, gouging,
villainous behavior. And what we are in the business of
coming into the new election is disrupting the status quo.
Everyone hows and complains how much money is going overseas,
(08:34):
egregious behavior, punitive amounts of dough we have to pay.
Winston puts up a disruptive idea, and all of you
people race to defend the status quo. All of you
people race to defend these failed models. Good on Winston
on our behalf putting up us.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
You realize that the B and Z's value should I say,
at twenty four billion, that is what we spend currently
on super and cuation for a whole year. Wouldn't you
be better if you had a spare twenty four billion
dollars Shane Jones, which you haven't. I don't need to
remind you of that. Wouldn't you be better to chuck
that straight into Kiwi Bank and beef it up. You
(09:12):
buy the ben Z and amalgamate it with Kiwibank. You've
only got four major banks instead of five. Where's the
logic in that?
Speaker 2 (09:19):
And don't you agree that now we're having the debate
prior to Winston introducing this issue, stirring everyone up, disrupting
the status quo, the cozy club that profit from Kiwis
and rich ossies. Everyone sat back in this air of complacency.
That's what New Zealand First does. We break up the
cozy complacency of the big end of New Zealand's corporate panel.
(09:45):
Mahogany ruined entitlement. No, that's why New Zealand First is
going to be exceedingly well in the new upcoming election.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
I would call it populist nationalistic politics. I'm not a
mile away there either, am I.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
While we are pop and we are nationalists, and by
the way, I'm a politician.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
Shane Jones, thanks as always for your time on the country.
Appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
See here, buddy,
Change oones, amongst other things. He wears many hats as
the Minister of Resources. We're going to talk about fuel
and how much we've got and whether the fuel crisis
is lessening. But talking about fuel change oones. You were
in Queenstown yesterday at an electrify Queenstown debate, you would
(00:20):
have been the odd man out there, wouldn't you. Everyone
else wants to electrify. You want to dig, baby dig
and burn coal.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Ah. Yes, I was in Queenstown yesterday and there are
a few in the audience who wanted to electric out
the good matur because of my views about fossil fuels.
But oh look, I've got to go into the lines
den occasionally. Full marks for the people that sponsored the conference,
your local council down there. They promoted the event and
quite a few of the things that were being said.
(00:48):
You have to agree with them, but we cannot completely
rule out coal or gas. Now we had chippy there
he's a winger, stands up with his ginger up kind
of plaintive voice, completely overlooking the fact that they ruined
the gas industry, gave an AI generated speech, some kind
(01:09):
of computer generated narrative, and then he wouldn't stand up
in the debate, and he got Meghan and she refused
to apologize for canceling the oil and gas industry. But
other than that, David Seymour and I we traded barbs.
But that's part of the humor of the event. In
Simeon sat there claiming unwisely that the FastTrack legislation was
(01:32):
national policy. It was Shane and Winston who bought the
FastTrack into the coalition agreement. Of course it's so successful
in the National Party and now claiming it there is
no place for magpie behavior in the world of coalition politics.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
Mind j Meghan Woods was blaming you for kicking to
touch like Onslow and I've always struggled with the theory
of using energy to pump water up hell just to
catch energy on the way down, but apparently it works.
Have we made a mistake there?
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Well, no, I'm advice that David's Parker and the most
famous engineer in my lifetime as Keith Turner. They are
still working on it, and they're confident that they can
fund it predominantly without a cash injection from the Crown,
and if they're able to find some customers and make
it work all power to their hand. I think that
(02:27):
we do need to damn another river somewhere. Of course,
Kiwis will ever agree. I never agree with that we
need to accelerate chi thermil Look, Kiwi's listening to this
highly popular program. If you want energy, we have to
expand supply. If you want affordable energy, we need to
cut the gentailors and in half. And just as we're
going to deal to the calcified attitudes and the oligopolies
(02:50):
that comprise the banking sector, we are going to smash
the gentailors in half. What's what happens on novemb of
the night.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
I'm going to come back to the banks because I
think Ean Winston have got that badly wrong. But let's
just stick with energy. You're the Minister of Resources. Is
the fuel crisis lessening?
Speaker 2 (03:09):
Well, sadly, prices are spiking, But you know as well
as I do in the OECD ranks, and also in
relation to a number of our Southeast Asian neighbors, we
do have the ability to pay. We do not have
the fiscal headroom to continually subsidize gas prices in New Zealand. Therefore,
(03:32):
we're going to have to learn to cope with expanded prices.
You and I know that our agricultural sector is very resilient.
Supply is continuing to work as intended with our statutory
obligations that the oil and import companies have to abide by.
(03:53):
But look, no one's exaggerating how challenging it is made.
And I do feel for our productive sector and the household,
but we should be very proud of the fact that
our government imposed some obligations on the fuel important companies.
They wanted a just in time model. And the only
thing that we're battling with is when Jacinda closed down
(04:13):
the Marsdenpoint refinery and destroyed seven hundred and ten million
liters of storage capacity, which I had to save with
the money to recommission one hundred million liters of additional storage,
something that Labor and Megan refused to do. Didn't find
the money. Sadly, the good Matua I was able to
(04:36):
do that, and that will be full of diesel during
the course of the next month.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
That's almost as many letters as trees you wanted to
plant misguidedly.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
Oh look I'm not it's not as incapable of learning lessons.
We've moved on from that phase of point.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
Okay, the billion dollar tree man is now history. What
about the public service reform?
Speaker 2 (04:56):
There?
Speaker 1 (04:57):
I see Nikola wants to cut the numbers down. And
I was reading online this morning when Chasinda, when you'll
mate Winston put Jacinda in In twenty seventeen, there was
forty eight thousand in the public sector December of last year.
Last head count that I can see sixty three thousand,
six hundred. Nikola wants to get it down to fifty
(05:17):
five thousand and twenty twenty nine, back to one percent
of the population. What do they all do?
Speaker 2 (05:23):
Well? There is a famous saying. From time to time
you have to mow the lawn, and if you don't
mow the lawn, all sorts of strange weeds kaikuia. You
probably don't have that grass down in the South Island.
I don't even know if the farmers so past Pellam
We used to have it as kids on our farm. Yeah,
certain weeds grow and look a bit of mowing now
and again doesn't go astray. But we need to bear
(05:47):
in mind these are fellow Kiwis we're talking about, and
providing that the positions they occupy have a legitimate role,
then they're safe if they are fill agree, and they're
not contributing towards productivity. Our finance minister is saying that
they can be rationalized and there'll be space because the
(06:07):
private sector will grow in order to deliver other goods
and services that the public sector can no longer is
no longer needed. I mean, I can only look at
my beloved fishing industry and indeed the resource sector. There
are people occupying positions in those areas where perhaps technology
and a more rational approach means that the industry can
(06:29):
deliver them rather than the state. And I think that
that's an important debate we need to have. And also, mate,
we've got to grow the economy. We've got to grow jobs,
we've got to grow exports, and to do that we
need to change the law from time to time encourage investment,
and we're going to have to take risks. You ought
to know. One of the reasons why our power prices
(06:52):
are high is because just Sinder and Megan canceled at
oil and gas industry. So why don't we expand geothermal energy,
make certain zones capable of growing energy because you won't
need a resource consent, and also go overseas and see
if the Japanese will come here off the coast of
South Island. Work with the crowd will help derisk it
(07:13):
and actually find some new areas of oil and gas
and restarter for a new industry.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
How are you getting on getting rid of regional councils?
Speaker 2 (07:23):
Well, that workers underway with my colleagues from the National Party.
I mean, obviously I'm not the minister, but there is
no place for these regional councils, as is the example
you've referred to down your neck of the woods and Otarger.
I mean, Otigo was built on a gold rush. I
just didn't know that a golden like dome would emerge
in terms of your new regional council building down there.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
Not to mention the xenram, Rightyo, let's address the elephant
in the rome. What the hell I mean you and
Winston put your cinder in. I'll forgive you for that.
I don't know if I can actually the billion trees.
I don't know if I can forgive you for that either. Shame.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
But buy in isn't all bad? Is not all bad?
Speaker 1 (08:02):
But buying buying the B and Z, what is Winston thinking?
This is just plain politicking.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
The banking sector, the power sector, the supermarket sector represent calcified, monopolistic, gouging,
villainous behavior. And what we are in the business of
coming into the new election is disrupting the status quo.
Everyone hows and complains how much money is going overseas,
(08:34):
egregious behavior, punitive amounts of dough we have to pay.
Winston puts up a disruptive idea, and all of you
people race to defend the status quo. All of you
people race to defend these failed models. Good on Winston
on our behalf putting up us.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
You realize that the B and Z's value should I say,
at twenty four billion, that is what we spend currently
on super and cuation for a whole year. Wouldn't you
be better if you had a spare twenty four billion
dollars Shane Jones, which you haven't. I don't need to
remind you of that. Wouldn't you be better to chuck
that straight into Kiwi Bank and beef it up. You
(09:12):
buy the ben Z and amalgamate it with Kiwibank. You've
only got four major banks instead of five. Where's the
logic in that?
Speaker 2 (09:19):
And don't you agree that now we're having the debate
prior to Winston introducing this issue, stirring everyone up, disrupting
the status quo, the cozy club that profit from Kiwis
and rich ossies. Everyone sat back in this air of complacency.
That's what New Zealand First does. We break up the
cozy complacency of the big end of New Zealand's corporate panel.
(09:45):
Mahogany ruined entitlement. No, that's why New Zealand First is
going to be exceedingly well in the new upcoming election.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
I would call it populist nationalistic politics. I'm not a
mile away there either, am I.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
While we are pop and we are nationalists, and by
the way, I'm a politician.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
Shane Jones, thanks as always for your time on the country.
Appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
See here, buddy,
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