April 21, 2026 • 8 mins
After a tough day at the office yesterday, the Prime Minister is all fired up over the media, Winston and the Indian FTA.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Wednesdays on the Country the Prime Minister, and I'm glad
I can still call them. Matt kicks off the show
Prime Minister during the lead up to this interview. I've
never known you to be so fired.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Up like I'm fired up. Don't you worry. We've got
a bed job to do, and we've got an awesome
country and we're in difficult times, but damn it, we're
going to get the other side in good shape. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Well, I wasn't even going to talk to you about
the famous five and the leadership votes and all that
sort of stuff. But whether you like it or not,
you're dependent on Winston Peters. You can't form a government
without them.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Look, I mean, as I said at the beginning of
the year, you know we have the election November seven.
We think the best way if you want a center
right government is you've got to vote National, two ticks blue,
no doubt about it. Yes I can work with Winston,
Yes I can work with ACT. I've proven that I've
got strong, stable government under my leadership as Prime Minister.
But we're different parties. You know, Winston as a party
(00:54):
News on first that ended the oil and Gas band,
which caused huge pain and suffering from Newrylanders. He won't
support an India NFTA. Winston's in New Zealand first want
to plant a billion trees, which all your listeners talk
about the farm to forest conversions. Will the barber guys
that did that and they still won't support an Indie FTA.
You know, darbi as it claim to be socially conservative
and then put us into ourderna into power. So you know,
(01:15):
I'm just saying we are differences, and we have our differences.
We have, you know, things that we can align on
and can work very constructively around, and we will if
that's needed down in the future. But you know the
real answer is, if you're sitting out there thinking about
what kind of government you want to take New Zealand
forward with, you need a national lead government. Period. That's
that simple.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
Is the undermining you.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
No, he's got a different set of agendas and policies.
You know, he believes wrongly and he has did wrong
on the Indian FTA. He is trying to scare Monger,
He's trying to crank it up. We've seen him do it,
whether it's on you know, the Fronterira brand sale, whether
it's the Alliance sale, whether it's been the China FTA,
the Indian FTA. He has for want of a better word,
and anti immigrants sort of bias in his party and
(01:59):
his constituency and belief system. We don't buy that. We've
got smart targeted immigration settings in his z oone that
have served us well. We change them. We Eric Simpsone
an excellent job of hardening those up over the last
two years and going about in a smart way. But
we differ on that area, but we also agree very
strongly on it. You know, we've got to grow the economy,
we've got to restore law and order, we've got to
(02:20):
deliver better health education, and we have huge areas of
alignment there. I'm just saying to you, welcome to MMP.
Parties have different stands. There's six parties in Parliament today.
They have different constituents, they have different policies. Some aligne,
some don't, and at the end of the day, on
election night, we try and make it work as an
MMP environment with sm New Zealand. People have given us Yeah,
do you want to answer that if you want to
(02:41):
send a right government.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
Yes, we've heard that. We've heard that Prime minister. But
do you worry about deja vu all over again? If
twenty seventeen comes to pass. Winston decides on a whim
that you're not offering a good enough deal and away
he goes with Chippy, even though he said publicly he
won't go into coalition with Labor with Chris Hipkins as
a lead. And we know that Chris Sipkins is going
to be the Labor leader heading into the selection, he's
(03:04):
polling well.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Well, I don't think a lot of people would have
thought he would have gone with Labor in twenty seventeen, right,
I said that shocked the country. I think it shocked
a lot of his own supporters frankly, But ultimately that's
his decision. You know what we'll do is you know,
we've had a very constructive working relationship in this goverment.
I'm actually very proud of the strong stable government. The
three parties have been able to deliver in this coalition.
(03:27):
Many people, you remember, Jamie, when I first became promise,
I said it wouldn't the last ten months, it would
fall apart, would be an election again, just like the
European countries do when they fall apart. We haven't done that.
So I'm proud of that. But I'm also just saying
to you, we are different parties and we have different takes.
The Indian FDA's a classic. We just think that is
just all upside for news elders. When you get a
(03:48):
fifty percent cut to your tariff for apples and it's
twice as much as what we sell to them today,
that's a good thing, you know, when you actually get
your seafood, which actually a lot of those seafood guys
support in his own first party, a lot of muscle
Salmon's going a duty free over the next seventy years.
Pretty good deal. So you know, same on forestry, same
on wine, same on Manuka honey, same on ki These
are places that create jobs. When he's islanders in regional
(04:10):
New Zealand, so why wouldn't you get on board and
support it. So he and I can vehemently disagree on
our positions on the Indian FTA, and he's entitled to
have a different view from me, for sure, but we're
also very aligned on a lot of other things.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
Is it economic trees and a labor doesn't support this.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
Well, look, we've been working with them in good faith.
We had another meetings with the miss how afternoon. I
think it's another set of meetings going down today. I
think we've had over twenty different engagements with labor where
it's been letters, meeting our officials, meeting our ministers, helping
them understand the detail of it all. But look, you
trade should be by partisan it's not political because I'm
telling you, Jamie, in a very troubled world, to have
(04:48):
an option like India, the third biggest economy in the world,
you know they I can't think of another five million
people country that the Indians have bothered to spend time
with trying to build an Indian FTA worth. They want
to work with the big guys. They've done it with
you know, the next you know, they've done it with
EU just after us. We want to get the deal signed,
which is normal protocol, so that we can get the
(05:09):
most Favored nation status for wine out of the European deal,
so that we get the best deal always for wine
and some other sectors as well.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
Well. You'll get no argument from me on that one.
I think it's a no brainer. Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
Look what's been I think what's been good though, Jamie,
is you know, even the last week we saw up
to one hundred companies, one hundred businesses come out and
actually say yeah, actually this in then FTA is a
good thing. It should be beyond politics. It's a bipartisan thing.
So yeah, I think you know we're we're working and
engaging with labor and good faith. You know, I heard
Chris Sipkins yesterday say he's trying to do the same thing.
You know, I generally hope we will get there, and
(05:43):
I think that's an interest of new Zeale.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
Do you wake up on a cold sweat in the
middle of the night, awakening missus Luxon, just thinking what
a bum deal I've got? You know, in terms of
becoming Prime minister, you inherited an economic mess Trump's tariffs
in twenty four, should I say in twenty five and
then Trump's war in twenty six. You can't buy a break.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
No, I wake up, mate, honestly, just fired up. I
mean I really do, because yes, I agree with you.
The world is at an infection point. It has changed
and it is not going back to how it was.
It is about big countries with power exercising that power.
And we are a small country and we have interests
and values, but we don't have power, and so how
(06:25):
we navigate that world is the way that I've been
doing it over the last two years is preparing for
that by having broader relationships with the Singaporeans, with the
South Koreans, with the Japanese, with the Chinese, the Indians,
the Middle Easterns, the europe UK, Europe, all of that stuff, right,
and the Americans. And we may not like I think
Trump's tariffs are wrong. We think we know how that
movie ends. It doesn't end well. You know, this war
(06:48):
in the Middle East is absolute chaos and it needs
you know, it's no idea where it's going, and every
day it gets bounced around, and yet it's causing huge
economic pain and suffering for people around the world and
here at home. Joined a call at midnight on Friday,
went to AM on Saturday morning with other world leaders.
There was fifty one of us on the call. You know,
I spoke there very strongly about how the impact is
(07:08):
having with New Zealand but also across the Pacific region
as well, and they're developing countries in Asia, and you know,
that crisis needs to have a cease fire and needs
to get a proper negotiated settlement in place, and we
need the free flowing and freedmom navigation of ships moving
through that strait so we can lower the price of
diesel at the pump. That's what it's going to be
about again. But you know, I get it the country
(07:31):
and everyone around the world. We've been through COVID, We've
been through inflation and recession, We've been through Trump's tariffs,
We've been through weather events. We've now got Trump's war.
You know, all of that has implications, but it's happening
to all one hundred and ninety five countries in the world.
And the question is how do you make sure you
position New Zealand to come out of that, to pop
up on its foils and to be able to go
forward with a positive vision of where we get to. Okay,
(07:52):
I think we can. Okay.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
The final question for you, because you're all fired up,
are you getting a fair crack from Jenna, Mikey and Tova.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
Well, that's the point I was making yesterday to the media,
and you know, I had had media speculation going on
for days about you know, the National Party, and I
want to pull a stop on it. And the answer is,
I think the media need to get connected with the
issues that actually New Zealanders are really dealing with and
wrestling with, and by all means, let's have that debate
about the hard issue that actually meta to New Zealanders
(08:23):
rather than the Beltway. From the basement of the Press
Gallery in Willington.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
Here Christopher Luxeon all fired up. Thanks for your time
on the country tonight. You and missus Luckson are the wonderful.
Amanda a joy a butter chicken tonight.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
How about that?
Speaker 1 (08:35):
See you later.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
Thanks Javie, you have a good work. Take care of
by
Wednesdays on the Country the Prime Minister, and I'm glad
I can still call them. Matt kicks off the show
Prime Minister during the lead up to this interview. I've
never known you to be so fired.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Up like I'm fired up. Don't you worry. We've got
a bed job to do, and we've got an awesome
country and we're in difficult times, but damn it, we're
going to get the other side in good shape. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Well, I wasn't even going to talk to you about
the famous five and the leadership votes and all that
sort of stuff. But whether you like it or not,
you're dependent on Winston Peters. You can't form a government
without them.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Look, I mean, as I said at the beginning of
the year, you know we have the election November seven.
We think the best way if you want a center
right government is you've got to vote National, two ticks blue,
no doubt about it. Yes I can work with Winston,
Yes I can work with ACT. I've proven that I've
got strong, stable government under my leadership as Prime Minister.
But we're different parties. You know, Winston as a party
(00:54):
News on first that ended the oil and Gas band,
which caused huge pain and suffering from Newrylanders. He won't
support an India NFTA. Winston's in New Zealand first want
to plant a billion trees, which all your listeners talk
about the farm to forest conversions. Will the barber guys
that did that and they still won't support an Indie FTA.
You know, darbi as it claim to be socially conservative
and then put us into ourderna into power. So you know,
(01:15):
I'm just saying we are differences, and we have our differences.
We have, you know, things that we can align on
and can work very constructively around, and we will if
that's needed down in the future. But you know the
real answer is, if you're sitting out there thinking about
what kind of government you want to take New Zealand
forward with, you need a national lead government. Period. That's
that simple.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
Is the undermining you.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
No, he's got a different set of agendas and policies.
You know, he believes wrongly and he has did wrong
on the Indian FTA. He is trying to scare Monger,
He's trying to crank it up. We've seen him do it,
whether it's on you know, the Fronterira brand sale, whether
it's the Alliance sale, whether it's been the China FTA,
the Indian FTA. He has for want of a better word,
and anti immigrants sort of bias in his party and
(01:59):
his constituency and belief system. We don't buy that. We've
got smart targeted immigration settings in his z oone that
have served us well. We change them. We Eric Simpsone
an excellent job of hardening those up over the last
two years and going about in a smart way. But
we differ on that area, but we also agree very
strongly on it. You know, we've got to grow the economy,
we've got to restore law and order, we've got to
(02:20):
deliver better health education, and we have huge areas of
alignment there. I'm just saying to you, welcome to MMP.
Parties have different stands. There's six parties in Parliament today.
They have different constituents, they have different policies. Some aligne,
some don't, and at the end of the day, on
election night, we try and make it work as an
MMP environment with sm New Zealand. People have given us Yeah,
do you want to answer that if you want to
(02:41):
send a right government.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
Yes, we've heard that. We've heard that Prime minister. But
do you worry about deja vu all over again? If
twenty seventeen comes to pass. Winston decides on a whim
that you're not offering a good enough deal and away
he goes with Chippy, even though he said publicly he
won't go into coalition with Labor with Chris Hipkins as
a lead. And we know that Chris Sipkins is going
to be the Labor leader heading into the selection, he's
(03:04):
polling well.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Well, I don't think a lot of people would have
thought he would have gone with Labor in twenty seventeen, right,
I said that shocked the country. I think it shocked
a lot of his own supporters frankly, But ultimately that's
his decision. You know what we'll do is you know,
we've had a very constructive working relationship in this goverment.
I'm actually very proud of the strong stable government. The
three parties have been able to deliver in this coalition.
(03:27):
Many people, you remember, Jamie, when I first became promise,
I said it wouldn't the last ten months, it would
fall apart, would be an election again, just like the
European countries do when they fall apart. We haven't done that.
So I'm proud of that. But I'm also just saying
to you, we are different parties and we have different takes.
The Indian FDA's a classic. We just think that is
just all upside for news elders. When you get a
(03:48):
fifty percent cut to your tariff for apples and it's
twice as much as what we sell to them today,
that's a good thing, you know, when you actually get
your seafood, which actually a lot of those seafood guys
support in his own first party, a lot of muscle
Salmon's going a duty free over the next seventy years.
Pretty good deal. So you know, same on forestry, same
on wine, same on Manuka honey, same on ki These
are places that create jobs. When he's islanders in regional
(04:10):
New Zealand, so why wouldn't you get on board and
support it. So he and I can vehemently disagree on
our positions on the Indian FTA, and he's entitled to
have a different view from me, for sure, but we're
also very aligned on a lot of other things.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
Is it economic trees and a labor doesn't support this.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
Well, look, we've been working with them in good faith.
We had another meetings with the miss how afternoon. I
think it's another set of meetings going down today. I
think we've had over twenty different engagements with labor where
it's been letters, meeting our officials, meeting our ministers, helping
them understand the detail of it all. But look, you
trade should be by partisan it's not political because I'm
telling you, Jamie, in a very troubled world, to have
(04:48):
an option like India, the third biggest economy in the world,
you know they I can't think of another five million
people country that the Indians have bothered to spend time
with trying to build an Indian FTA worth. They want
to work with the big guys. They've done it with
you know, the next you know, they've done it with
EU just after us. We want to get the deal signed,
which is normal protocol, so that we can get the
(05:09):
most Favored nation status for wine out of the European deal,
so that we get the best deal always for wine
and some other sectors as well.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
Well. You'll get no argument from me on that one.
I think it's a no brainer. Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
Look what's been I think what's been good though, Jamie,
is you know, even the last week we saw up
to one hundred companies, one hundred businesses come out and
actually say yeah, actually this in then FTA is a
good thing. It should be beyond politics. It's a bipartisan thing.
So yeah, I think you know we're we're working and
engaging with labor and good faith. You know, I heard
Chris Sipkins yesterday say he's trying to do the same thing.
You know, I generally hope we will get there, and
(05:43):
I think that's an interest of new Zeale.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
Do you wake up on a cold sweat in the
middle of the night, awakening missus Luxon, just thinking what
a bum deal I've got? You know, in terms of
becoming Prime minister, you inherited an economic mess Trump's tariffs
in twenty four, should I say in twenty five and
then Trump's war in twenty six. You can't buy a break.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
No, I wake up, mate, honestly, just fired up. I
mean I really do, because yes, I agree with you.
The world is at an infection point. It has changed
and it is not going back to how it was.
It is about big countries with power exercising that power.
And we are a small country and we have interests
and values, but we don't have power, and so how
(06:25):
we navigate that world is the way that I've been
doing it over the last two years is preparing for
that by having broader relationships with the Singaporeans, with the
South Koreans, with the Japanese, with the Chinese, the Indians,
the Middle Easterns, the europe UK, Europe, all of that stuff, right,
and the Americans. And we may not like I think
Trump's tariffs are wrong. We think we know how that
movie ends. It doesn't end well. You know, this war
(06:48):
in the Middle East is absolute chaos and it needs
you know, it's no idea where it's going, and every
day it gets bounced around, and yet it's causing huge
economic pain and suffering for people around the world and
here at home. Joined a call at midnight on Friday,
went to AM on Saturday morning with other world leaders.
There was fifty one of us on the call. You know,
I spoke there very strongly about how the impact is
(07:08):
having with New Zealand but also across the Pacific region
as well, and they're developing countries in Asia, and you know,
that crisis needs to have a cease fire and needs
to get a proper negotiated settlement in place, and we
need the free flowing and freedmom navigation of ships moving
through that strait so we can lower the price of
diesel at the pump. That's what it's going to be
about again. But you know, I get it the country
(07:31):
and everyone around the world. We've been through COVID, We've
been through inflation and recession, We've been through Trump's tariffs,
We've been through weather events. We've now got Trump's war.
You know, all of that has implications, but it's happening
to all one hundred and ninety five countries in the world.
And the question is how do you make sure you
position New Zealand to come out of that, to pop
up on its foils and to be able to go
forward with a positive vision of where we get to. Okay,
(07:52):
I think we can. Okay.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
The final question for you, because you're all fired up,
are you getting a fair crack from Jenna, Mikey and Tova.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
Well, that's the point I was making yesterday to the media,
and you know, I had had media speculation going on
for days about you know, the National Party, and I
want to pull a stop on it. And the answer is,
I think the media need to get connected with the
issues that actually New Zealanders are really dealing with and
wrestling with, and by all means, let's have that debate
about the hard issue that actually meta to New Zealanders
(08:23):
rather than the Beltway. From the basement of the Press
Gallery in Willington.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
Here Christopher Luxeon all fired up. Thanks for your time
on the country tonight. You and missus Luckson are the wonderful.
Amanda a joy a butter chicken tonight.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
How about that?
Speaker 1 (08:35):
See you later.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
Thanks Javie, you have a good work. Take care of
by
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