July 16, 2026 • 40 mins
Jamie Mackay talks to Mark Hooper, John Moorby, Steve Wyn-Harris, and Riley Kennedy.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Catch all the latest from the land. It's the Country
Podcast with Jamie McKay thanks to Farmlands delivering solutions for
strong productive crops.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
But my love get a New Zealand. Welcome to the Country.
I'm Jamie MacKaye. The show is brought to you by
Farmlands and Isuzu a bit of Irish music. Looking forward
to that test tomorrow night at Eden Park the Fortress.
We haven't lost there since the French scored the try
from the End of the Earth We're back in nineteen
ninety four. Got a bit of a rugby connection on
(00:55):
the show. Today we're going to be chatting shortly to
John Morby, father of Josh. He went on my Rugby
World Cup tour in twenty fifteen along with his lovely
wife Debbie to the UK, so it'd be great to
catch up with John again. Talk a bit of farming
they're large scale dairy farmers in Tiawamutu, and talk a
bit of footy as well. Steve wyn Harris Central Hawk
(01:19):
Space She Can Be Farmer, a radio host on Central
FM and also a former very well read broad not broadcaster,
columnist and The Farmer's Weekly. Now Steve has been farming
for quite a while. Has been a longtime observer of
weather patterns and we're going to get his take. And
he's written a really interesting article for us. We're going
to publish it today on the prospect of a super
(01:42):
al Nino. I'm trying to get a hold of Nile
Brown talking about the Irish. He's the chief executive of
Dawn Meats. Of course they bought the Alliance Group, or
took over the Alliance Group, or became a joint venture,
whatever you want to call it. He's in the country
at the moment for the rugby test. Has he turned
the Alliance Group around? Hopefully? Well, we chat to him,
but I've got a backup plan if that fails. And
(02:03):
Barry Soper on celebrity candidates top and Winston being Winston.
But let's kick it off with Mark Hooper. He's a
Taranaki Calkocky Federated Farmers Banking an RIMA Reform spokesperson. Mark.
Good afternoon. Have you started carving it on your Taranaki farm?
Speaker 3 (02:23):
Yeah, good afternoon, Jamie. Yes, we certainly have probably a
dozen or so in so it's just starting to really
ramp up.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
Is it something you look forward to or something you dread.
I mean, being a former sheep farmer, was always excited
about the harvest of lambing. But I can't say I
ever really look forward to lambing season.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
It's kind of one of those situations where you you're
not looking forward to it, but once it gets underway,
you just kind of really want to get on with
the job and get it done, so then you're sort
of looking forward to seeing more come in and get
it over with as soon as possible.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
I want to start with Federated Farmers Banking or latest
banking survey. Some really interesting numbers, and I've just had
a quick readily, so forgive me if I don't get
all the numbers right. So farmers have been repaying debt,
which is good. I mean, the farm debt has dropped
one point four billion to sixty one point two billion.
(03:22):
And I would have thought, for the life for me
that surely the dairy farmers would have had the biggest
median mortgage, but no, that's not the case. It's the
arable farmers. They've got an average or a median mortgage
of three point five million, the highest of all farm types,
and they're getting the worst returns at the moment.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
Yeah, yeah, so that's right. So a little bit of
confusion there preps in terminology because the average for the
dairy survey is higher, but that's because there's some significant,
big players that make up those numbers. So it's more
reflective in terms of what the situation is if you
use the median, and the median number puts arable. Really,
(04:08):
whichever way you do it, it puts the arable guys
certainly got the heat on. They've got the highest median
mortgage and they've got the most commodity pressure and rising
costs pressure on them. So a bit of a tough
situation for those guys.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Oh absolutely, mind you you look at the cost of
heads or combine harvesters, whatever you want to call them,
you can get up they can be up to a
million bucks.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
Yeah, So that's the major issue actually, is the replacement
process there. And for a lot of guys, you know,
they would have had that on a regular whatever it is,
three or five year kind of cycle, and that's almost
become incredibly difficult at the top end. And that has
a flowdown effect of course on the secondhand market as well,
(04:53):
because there'll be a lot of other small operators that
are looking out for those machines, but if they're not available,
keeps a squeeze on all the way through.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
So the survey was taken over five hundred and forty farmers,
which is a pretty good sample size when you consider
the total number of farmers in the country. Here's another
number that's quite interesting. The number of respondents with mortgages
under two million dollars has risen to forty one percent,
up from thirty eight. So that's a good number, but
(05:22):
it just goes to show you that, not surprisingly, when
you're dealing with large asset bases, there's a lot of
debt behind it.
Speaker 3 (05:30):
Yeah, there is, actually I think you'll find that there's
the number of farmers with mortgages under two million has
actually increase. So that's the reflection of the amount of
debt that has been paid down and so just you know,
a little bit of a little bit of more regal
room I guess coming in there in terms of the
(05:53):
strategic use of both the good cash flow that we
had during the autumn, and of course the Fonterra capital
redistribution is perhaps playing into that as well.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
The average mortgage rate was five point four nine percent
down from five point seven eight percent in the November survey.
Two out of five respondents in this May survey have
over seventy five percent of their loans on floating and
I guess, like a lot of business people, they've been
riding the ocr down on floating rates, but now it's
(06:28):
heading the other way. So I wouldn't be surprised Mark
Hooper if when you do your next banking survey, the
average mortgage rate's probably going to be more than five
point four nine percent.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
Yeah, yeah, well it's better that And so it is
interesting just looking at what those ratios in terms of
fixed and unfixed, and there is a bit of exposure there,
so that's certainly an area of risk. I guess the
thing to also consider around those average interest rates is
(07:00):
that there's quite a lot of very variance in those
rates in the rural sector, and so the banks also
earn a situation where they're competing quite strongly for that
share of the rural debt. And so that's going to
help in terms of keeping a little bit of a
lid on that process. And I think you know, within
(07:20):
that gope, if the people are doing good budgets and
are showing good business performance, then there is opportunity to
keep those interest rates fairly tight.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Okay, just some good news for the banks to finish with,
because there were they off and our easy targets for us.
All farmer's satisfaction with banks reached sixty nine percent in May,
the highest rate recorded in the last eight years of
the FED Farmers twice a year banking surveys, and the
other one was because this number was getting worryingly high.
Number of farmers who said they were feeling undue pressure
(07:51):
from their bank came in at just ten percent, the
lowest since twenty eighteen. So that's a good news or
two good numbers to finish with. Now, I want to
you to put on your MA reform hat, Mark Hooper,
Why is fed's well, Why are FED sounding the alarm
over councils rushing to sign new EWE partnership agreements before
(08:13):
the Resource Management Act is replaced? Is this skullduggery?
Speaker 3 (08:18):
Well, there's certainly a bit of a gold rush of
activity happening there at the moment we've just understanding. I
guess what the bigger picture is, and that is these agreements.
The motherfucker agreements are a joint decision making kind of
agreement on how councils and e we will operate around
(08:40):
resource management planning processes and what have you. So there's
two things to understand here. One is why these are
sort of generally problematic. They're not all a standard template,
so they do vary a bit. And the second thing
is to why there's such a rush on at the moment,
and that's because there's I guess reasonably well signaled in
(09:03):
the new resource management legislation coming out in the Natural
Environment Bill. That's the process of being able to introduce
new agreements is likely to be stopped. And so there's
a rush on with them at the moment because if
you've got one underway now or signed up, it's a
(09:25):
statutory agreement, so that means it carries forward into whatever
new entity there might be, either after the legislation has
been passed or even after a council has been reformed.
So if you can get them through now, they carry on.
And so that's why there's a real rush happening at present.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
Well, we're relying on you guys at feeds to keep
Mark Cooper, thanks for your Tom, good luck carving on
your Taranaki dairy farm.
Speaker 3 (09:51):
Thank you for that.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
There we go, Mark Cooper. That is sixteen after twelve
from one dairy farmer and Taranaki to one in Wykado.
Up next, John Morby. I haven't spoken to John for
eleven years. Hopefully he remembers who I am. He went
on my Rugby World Cup tour in twenty fifteen. He is,
(10:12):
of course, and his wife Debbie the parents proud parents,
very proud parents of Josh Morby. Gee, he's made every
post winner, hasn't he. The only problem with Josh is
he's no longer a South can Stag. But never mind,
he's going to do us proud at Eden Park tomorrow.
Steven Harrison, Central Hawks, Bay sheep and beef farmer, longtime
observer of weather patterns. He's got some interesting comments to
(10:36):
make about the prospect of a super al Nino. Maybe
Nile Brown, chief executive of Dawn meets. Don't know if
he'll turn up or not. Very Soper definitely. Well, it's
all on the country and it's all brought to you
by is Suzu and Farmlands. I was going to say Rabobank,
they bring you the best of the country. Tomorrow morning,
(11:20):
Welcome back to the country. Just about missing my musical
intro there. I was that busy gassing to a man
I hadn't talked to for eleven years. John Morby along
with his wife Debbie proud parents of Josh Morby, who
will make his starting debut for the All Blacks at
Eden Park against Ireland. Can fortress Eden Park remain? We'll
come back to the footy, hey, John, you and Debbie run.
(11:45):
It's almost an empire. Fifteen hundred cows on five hundred hectares.
You've done well. You didn't have that many when we
went on our Rugby World Cup tour in twenty fifteen.
Good afternoon.
Speaker 4 (11:55):
I had about half that, Jamie, he had about six
hundred and fifty nens.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
Are you and Debbie started out or started your careers
as sheer milk, Isn't It just goes to show that
through the dairy industry the pathway is there?
Speaker 5 (12:08):
Yeah? Yeah, we did.
Speaker 4 (12:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
So tell me about about your dairy farming operation. You
are one of the biggest operations as I understand it,
in the Wypad district.
Speaker 4 (12:18):
Yep. Yeah, we're we're just inside of Tao Mudu. We
milk fifteen hundred cows through two sheds. I have a
contract milker doing two sixty and myself would staff to
twelve forty in eighty bar Rout Tree.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
Yes, and my informants tell me John that your your
farm features one of the most technologically advanced milking parlors
in the Wypad district. What is that? That's flash parlance
for what?
Speaker 4 (12:46):
Ah, No, we've just got We've just got a saving
your old cowshed with what was the most latest stuff
at that time, So seven year old now, but it's
all a wait Kato plant and a locally built cowshed
from local builders, and yeah it all looks pretty good.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
Yeah, has that technology been surpassed now if you built
a brand new one? Now, how much different would it be?
Speaker 4 (13:10):
Oh? I think they'd probably be a little bit more
in the air and it would certainly cost probably double
tod iplaid in the last sist one up in the
last even years, I would have presumed. So yeah, no,
it's still basically milks the cows. But we've just got
the standard automatic cut removers and automatic peach spray. We've
got an auto draft in there, so yeah, we can
(13:33):
milk about four hundred and eighty cows an hour. So
it goes good. It's good.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
Are you Are you a Fonterra supplier, Yes, yes, So
they came out excuse me earlier this week on Monday,
I think it was you spoke to Richard Allen that
forecast milk price down fifty cents. Disappointing but not really
a surprise. And when we marry that up with the
other number, the break even milk, this is darien Z's
(14:00):
break even milk price. Because I talked to Tracy Brown,
another Wakehato dairy farmer at midweek on the show eight
seventy nine break even price nine to twenty five forecast
milk price for what it's worth. The margins are getting
a bit squeezed.
Speaker 4 (14:13):
They are getting a bit squeezed. But we've got to well,
we've just got to live with that and try and
save I guess where we can. But I always have
a I always follow just to feed the cows and
they'll look after you. So so we just carry on
and we just feed them.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
You'll be taking a bit of time off the farm
in the next month or two, will you. You're going
to South Africa.
Speaker 4 (14:38):
Well, I'm still fully involved. I still yeah, I still
run the day to day. So Josh making the or
Blacks has sort of got the jump on me a
little bit. So I will we're we're we're two hundred
cows into carving. So no, I won't go to South
Africa because I'll be carving. But but I have made
(14:59):
a promise to him, with how and my wife that
we will will go over to the UK when they
all blecks go that way. Hopefully he does enough to
still be there.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
Well, he started with a hiss and a roar. The
only disappointing thing I said, John and introing this, I
don't know whether you heard this. I'm just a wee
bit disappointed he's he's not still playing for myself and
stags because he was great for us.
Speaker 4 (15:21):
Yeah, actually it was a really good time in his life.
He he sells on offer a chance to sort of
go for it, and so we did and he's never
regretted it. Some damn good people down there. We certainly
enjoyed our trips to turn the card to watch him,
and that did some really good people there, mainly Breach
(15:45):
Shepherd pup nickname it.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
Well, I don't know if I don't know if i'd
described him as a really good person. You you you
obviously never played rugby against him. There will be a
few people who would probably argue otherwise.
Speaker 4 (15:59):
Well what he was damn good to Josh and Josh
was down there, Josh arrived, He got him into the
Woodlands Club like he likes to get there.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
He like, he gets likes he gets every rugby player
that ever comes to South. But I mean people will
think I'm having a crack. I love Puppy's a good mate,
but he's he does he does absolutely great work.
Speaker 4 (16:19):
He does well. He got Josh down there, bought him
a double bed, gave him a little car, a little ship,
he mind you, but he gave him a little car
to get around him and and you know those sort
of things you don't forget.
Speaker 3 (16:30):
Ah.
Speaker 4 (16:31):
So yeah, so yeah that was good. And that little
car drove him up to to the need him now
and again to do a fill in training with with
the Highlanders and so yeah, no that's yeah, that's yeah,
that's all history now. But it was it was good times.
Speaker 5 (16:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
What I love about Josh's story is that he wasn't
one of these kids who played for every New Zealand
age group team. And I think he only got into
the first fifteen in his final years at Hamilton Boys High.
Is that about right?
Speaker 3 (17:04):
Am I?
Speaker 2 (17:04):
Right there?
Speaker 5 (17:05):
Yeah?
Speaker 6 (17:05):
It was.
Speaker 4 (17:05):
That's that's when he grew. And he when he was
intermediate was a little feller. He is quite small. He
played roll of Mills rugby in the y kidder for
two years because he was quite skillful, but he was
just small and so when he got to Hamilton Boys,
he was he just wasn't big enough and that was
that he still had a school and it wasn't until
(17:25):
his last year school that he that he actually grew
and they put him in the sixteen in the resters year.
It's just gone well from.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
The air well. He's had a ripper of a year
for the Hurricanes. Deserved his selection made every post or
Wanner and to be compared in your first Test match
to Will Jordan, because there's a lot of similarities between
the pair of them, he must be very proud.
Speaker 4 (17:48):
Very proud.
Speaker 6 (17:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (17:49):
Actually the odd time you got to look twice to
see if it's Josh or wild yeah or who it is.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
Yeah, they're very similar.
Speaker 6 (17:56):
Hey.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
And just before I go, another Southern connection, your other
son Cam who's doing very well as a rugby coach,
as I understand it, is married to a good Southland girl,
Tory Peters, who's of course the New Zealand javelin champion.
Speaker 4 (18:09):
That's right, Yep, that's right, yes, and.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
Daughter of and daughter of Southland's best dairy farmer, Harry Peters.
Just ask Carrie.
Speaker 4 (18:17):
Yeah, he tell you that.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
He good. Good Riversdale people. Hey, John, I hope you
and Debbie well, I know you'll be heading to Eaton
Park tomorrow night. It's great to catch up again after
all these years. And good luck tomorrow night. I'm so
pleased that he's made it because he's absolutely deserved it.
Speaker 4 (18:35):
Oh, thanks very much, Jamie. Hey, just before I go,
I just want to mention a couple of other people
that have been involved in Josh's juny Aaron Major, he
t shoulder tapped, Jason Holland. So you know guys like
Aaron Major. Jason Holland's been very good to Josh, and
so is Cory Jane. Cory Jane's been fantastic. So yeah,
good people, good people around you. You can you can
(18:58):
achieve anything.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
May All right, you're off for saying Brent Shepherd was
a good bloke. Hello, Papa, if you're listening down on
in for cargo. He's got that big check book. And
anyone who comes anywhere near south and they get lured
by the Brent Shepherd check book and they all play
for Woodlands, one of the great rugby clubs in Southland
(19:20):
behind Rivers. Far up next? Who's up next? I've got
no idea. Where's my piece of paper?
Speaker 4 (19:25):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (19:25):
Steve wan Harris. I think he might have played for
the third fifteen at Central Hawks Bay High School back
in the day. But he's been a very successful farmer,
still is and a long time observer of weather patterns.
We're going to see what Steve makes and why pookerel
of the prospect of a super al Nino.
Speaker 4 (19:48):
Wow, So tram.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
Trump, welcome back to the country, bang on at twelve thirty.
Now I need to get Michelle to wander in here
at some stage and set up my text screen. It's
disappeared on me, but I have got a text in
(20:14):
from Jeremy Rocks. He said, quality man, mister Morby. He said,
it's great when people acknowledge those who contribute to their success.
And he says, perhaps I could learn from I think
that's a subtle dig suggesting that Jeremy is responsible for
any small successes I've had in radio. Here's a man
(20:34):
who's had great success in rural broadcasting. Steve Van Harris,
Central Hawks Bay owner, co owner of Central FM, runs
the Cockies Hour every Thursday. Hey Steve, good afternoon. You've
been doing some homework on the prospects of a super
al Nino.
Speaker 5 (20:51):
Yeah, well, it's what the climate scientists are calling us.
And I've heard you've hit some feedback people saying that
you're alarmist. And I wrote a piece for my son
and his mates actually just given the experience I've had
with these climate cycles over nearly fifty years. And it
started back in eighty two eighty three, and it started
blowing in September and it blew. It cuts off right
(21:13):
through that spring and summer, right into the autumn, and
didn't stop until about May. It was incessant and it
drove men and beast crazy. And we've got a big
lake near us called Lake far Tuma, and I went
down and walked across it, and you hadn't been able
to do that before. Since there's been other droughts with
less rain. This one had a lot of Abafo transpiration,
which we often overlooked and these other droughts. It was
(21:37):
still very mucky. You couldn't walk across it or anything.
So it was a unique drought. And they started the
climate scientists started talking about this thing called our Nino,
that this was an ol Nino event. So that was
the first that I and probably many others had ever
heard of these events. And it was compounded that drought
by the fact that we were under molding subsidies which
were encouraging people not to do stock, you know, to
have stock on a balance dates and Nama reason why
(22:00):
you shouldn't have subsidies anyway. So I came to the
belief of l Nino bad, Larnina good. That was disproved
quite quickly in eighty eight eighty nine when we had
a very nasty Larnina drought. So we're not talking about
al Nino and larnin. It's and the Southern Oscillation Index.
The Southern Oscillation Index is a measure of the difference
and pressures from Darwin across the Tahiti. Anyway, this current
(22:22):
one is down to minus twenty seven now and on
the Southern Oscillation Index, and that's the last and twenty years.
And in the last fifty years there's just been three
other events, including the eighty two eighty three one I've
talked about, that have been similar sort of negative in
the Southern Oscillation index, and that's nineteen ninety eight ninety nine,
(22:44):
and that was a very bad drought. But there was
another one when there was in two thousand and five
where there was no drought. And we've had about five
bad Larnina droughts and about four bad al Nino droughts,
so you know they're equally is dangerous. It's about the
depth of the Southern Oscillation index. You know how far
(23:05):
away it goes from neutral. That is the reason.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
You know, okay, Steve, and people can read all about
it because you've done You've got some wonderful grafts and
you've explained all those dates. And just you mentioned the
nineties just by memory. What was that really bad one
in Marlborough that was about what ninety seven ninety eight
was it?
Speaker 5 (23:22):
That's correct?
Speaker 2 (23:23):
Yeah, that was an our Nino drought though, wasn't it.
Speaker 5 (23:26):
Yes, Yes, you've being on right.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
That's the one. Our old mate Doug Avery. It forced
him or it made him change his farming practices and
become the resilient farmer.
Speaker 5 (23:36):
Well, I think eighty two eighty three changed out practices dramatically.
You know, we had probably ninety percent capital stock. I'm
just a rule of farm, but a large amount of
capital stock, and we learned quickly to get more trading stock,
have have more flexible systems. And each of the droughts,
you know, that's sort of ten droughts in my forty years,
so won every four years we're overdo one. Actually, he
(23:57):
teachers is something every time. But then you know you're
an old guy me sort of disappearing from the stage exit.
So that's why I write that piece really because there's
some learnings there.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
In terms of state, Steve, you're not allowed to use
learnings on the show. It's not a word, okay, whatever,
So you can use lessons if you want.
Speaker 5 (24:15):
Well, yeah, you could use it. It's all show. You
could use any words you want.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
Jay, Well, it's our show, Steve, because it's broadcasting on
Central FM as well. Look, and once again we're going
to publish this chane or do it very shortly. But
what is your prediction or prognosis or whatever the word
is for this season and you know, I'm not being
alarmist about a super on then, you know, but when
people like Brandolino and that are saying this is possibly
(24:40):
the worst one, potentially the worst one ever, what's your advice.
You've been around, you've been doing this for forty forty
five years.
Speaker 5 (24:47):
Well, let's hope it's not the worst one forever. Because
this data ship goes back to eighteen seventy six and
then eighteen ninety six and nineteen oh five it went
to minus forty ned eighty to eighty three to one
was in the minus thirty area. So I think it's
about probability, Jamie. There's no doubt that this is turning
into a significant al nino. But as I've explained that,
there have been bad al ninos and bed larinas where
(25:11):
no drought came. And in fact, there was one famous
one where I helped organize a field day at Pokawa
here in Hook's Faith because it was very dry spring
it was an al nino. We got the climate scientists
down and we could not hear them for the rain
on the on the roof of the tent. It was
Torridially everyone we all thought it was a great joke.
You know, if you've got a big drought, to have
a drought field day and break it. Unfortunately, I had
(25:33):
already stopped ahead of the curve because it had been
dry and I was expecting a drought, and it rained.
It rained all summer, and when I remonstrated with the
climate scientists, they said, Steve, one and four our ninos
can be very wet. So in the end, you've got
to be aware of this climate science cycle. But you know,
we won't know until it happens what its effects are.
(25:54):
And of course there are other there are other things
called the Indian diapole in the southern Lost. There's another
one down there Antarctic and in his climate change, so
these cycles may behave differently.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
So all right, Steve, that's a bit of a I
just need to keep moving on. Hey, look, thank you
very much for your time. We will publish this because
you've gone to a lot of effort, and it's a
lot of effort to write a message for your son Jason.
You could have just wandered down and told.
Speaker 5 (26:20):
The Yeah, I mean, just you know, the probability is
probably higher for a drought, but it's not necessarily going
to be one. Just remain flexible and keep pulling leavers
if you need to.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
Good on you. Hey, great to catch up, Steve, really
appreciate and your story about the drought field Day reminds
me of the drought shout we did in the Riversdale
Pub in two thousand and four, very very dry season.
Guess when the drought broke that night. Yeah, see you later.
Speaker 4 (26:46):
Thanks too much.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
He does a good job, Steve. When Harris it is
twenty three away from one up next Rare on news
Sports News. I'm trying to get a hold of Nile Brown,
the chief exitive a Dawn Meats. He's the bloke who's
taken over the Alliance group. He's gone on. Their new
(27:08):
broom has swept clean. There's been a few changes, I
think the headline and the story in business deest, he said,
reaching for his twentieth piece of paper today. We know
what's required to make a business hum properly, said Nile.
He's here for the footy. We'll try and catch him,
but anyhow, Barry Soap is definitely coming up before the
end of the hour, and maybe the Rural Broadcaster of
(27:30):
the Year Riley Kennedy. If you're lucky, welcome back to
the country twenty away from one. Michelle's wandered and he
(27:50):
even said, was I bored by Steve's Diepoles?
Speaker 4 (27:53):
No?
Speaker 2 (27:54):
I wasn't, And I apologize if I sounded bored by
Steve's diepoles. I don't. He's done a lot of homework
and Jane's going to put the story up on our website,
right she is.
Speaker 6 (28:03):
And I found it very interesting, Steve, So keep up
the good work.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
Yeah, we love you, Steve. He's done a lot of research.
As I said, he wrote it for his son and
his farming mates. You got to take it. So We'll
go to the ypocrrel pub and I'll tell you. I'll
give you a week history lesson. But thank goodness he's
written it down. It'll be worth a read. Okay, Here's
Rural News.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
The Country's rural News with cub Cadet. It's one thing
to talk in a vashion another to back it up,
drive it. We dare you visit steel for dot Cotolenz for.
Speaker 6 (28:31):
Your locals, Dog Guest and New Zealand and Switzerland have
agreed to establish a Trade and Investment Dialogue to explore
an agreement on trade, economic security, e commerce, investment and sustainability.
The announcement was made today following a meeting between Minister
Maclay and Swiss State Secretary for Economic Affairs Helen bood Lee.
(28:52):
Aga at Aida, there we go, I got that right?
Two ways.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
Well, no one knows if you've got it right. We
don't know what her name is, but it sounded quite good. Actually,
remember the Keith Quinn theory. If in doubts, say it quickly.
Speaker 6 (29:03):
Well so anyway, two way trade between Heysland and Switzerland
was worth New Zealand one point eight eight billion in
the year ending December twenty twenty five, and key exports
included travel services, meat, eatable offal and hides and skins
and the imports from Switzerland. Now this is an interesting one, Jamie.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
What do you think we bring?
Speaker 6 (29:21):
Which chocolate is an on this list?
Speaker 2 (29:22):
Watchers?
Speaker 6 (29:23):
Watchers, Yes, pharmaceuticals, insurance, pension services and charges for the
use of intellectual property. So really interesting. The officials are
hold their first meeting about this in September, and you've
got sport.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
Sports on the country with a fco business.
Speaker 5 (29:40):
Well done.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
Now, we had an earthquake down the bottom of the
country at about quarter past nine last night. A lot
of traffic going around. Who felt it? I didn't. I
was watching the golf.
Speaker 6 (29:51):
Yeah, I thought that my husband was playing a trick
on me and I kind of looked at him, but
he gave me that look of it's not me and
we felt at airplace. But obviously Mansion mckaye is on
tougher ground in our house.
Speaker 2 (30:02):
Wow. Now have I played the sports line? Yeah? I have?
Right The surprise leader talking about the golf after the
opening round of one hundred and fifty fourth Open Championship.
Isn't just playing in Europe for the first time? American
Jackson Suber says he's only played. He's also only played
(30:26):
his first round of links golf this week. How amazing
is that the twenty six year old leads the chasing
pack at Royal Birkdale by one shot after a stunning
opening round of five under sixty five. Now Royal Birkdale
is between sort of Liverpool, Manchester and up to Blackpool,
and you can just see by watching that what a
(30:48):
precarious position the UK is in terms of a drought.
It is tender drive. Now, just before I forget balance,
agrinutrients has been around for nearly eighty years and there's
a good reason for that. They're a farmer owned co op,
which means they're not answering to some over seas shareholder.
The farmers own them. They're answering obviously to farmers like you,
(31:11):
supplying the nutrients and solutions that help you make every
dollar account and farm more productively and profitably for generations
to come. Now worth mentioning Michelle and Tony Roberts from
Top Deck Trading down in South and this year they
picked up the Gordon Steys Stevenson Trophy at the National
Sustainability Showcase and they're now the National Ambassadors for Sustainable
(31:35):
Farming and Growing. In other words, they won the Balance
Farm Environment Awards. Good on them. That's a real recognition
for the real work they do on the land. If
their story's got you thinking, jump onto the Balance Farm
Environment Awards website and have a look through more of
these award winning farming and growing stories, or better yet,
put your own hand up to nominate someone. Entries, by
(31:58):
the way, are open for the twenty twenty seven Balance
Farm Environment Awards and you can enter at b if
EA dot org dot in z and I think Hamish
McKay is doing the podcast with the winners.
Speaker 6 (32:11):
Right, it's a fantastic podcast episode. I've listened to it
because I edit these Fever's knowledge and I've edited. I've
listened to it about five times, and I've enjoyed it
each time. That's how good that discussion as it's going
looking at.
Speaker 2 (32:22):
They've got a great story, Michelle, Michelle and Tony Roberts,
that is. And we'll try and catch up with them,
because we couldn't get them the day after they won
the Balance Farm Environment Awards, unfortunately, because they were in transit.
Up next. I'm still still trying to get Nile Brown
from Dawn meets the Chief, the Irish bloke who's bought
(32:44):
the Alliance Group or taken over the Alliance Group. He's
here for the food. He will try him. Failing that,
we've got a we've got a second option. Not a
very good one, but we've got a second option. My goodness.
(33:06):
Live radio has its ups and down moments, make chaos,
Mayhem and Auckland, Riley Kennedy from Business Desk, who's filling
in for Nile Brown, yelling out, don't come into this room.
I'm doing a radio interview. Just while Riley gets rid
of the hordes of fans outside his studio or booth
or whatever he's in in Auckland. I want to get
(33:27):
this message across from our partners at Farmstrong before I
forget farmers tell us that coping with the ups and
downs of farming is a lot easier when you share
the load. That's why it's great to have a natter
and get things off your chest. So why not make
time this weekend to catch up with a mate over
a coffee or a bear. I personally recommend the pub
on a Friday night if you're a farmer not in
(33:48):
the rugby season, because that ought to track from your
footy game, but it's a good time to have a yarn.
Talking to others is a great way to lighten the backpack.
I like that and stay farm strong. For more tips
and tools, head to farmstrong dot co. Got in Zaid
Riley Kennedy from Business Desk written an excellent story on
Nile Brown Dawn meets in the Alliance group. You told
(34:10):
me you would get him on the show for me
today you've let me down.
Speaker 7 (34:14):
Yes, you're good, A good afternoon. I'm apologies for not
being your EA, but I was actually doing my own job.
Speaker 2 (34:21):
Well, I know what you've been doing this morning, and
most of it hasn't involved work. You have been poking
bre Exit, another leading rural broadcaster.
Speaker 7 (34:30):
Yes, and he was texting me while he was on
air too, and I thought, well, well let's.
Speaker 2 (34:35):
Not encourage him. We don't want to give him publicity. Hey,
we're going to try and get Nile Brown on the show.
Have you talked to him or did you go through
an intermediary? No?
Speaker 7 (34:45):
No, I did talk to him. He's here. He's going
to the Rugby tomorrow night, which is a test of
his loyalty.
Speaker 2 (34:52):
Actually, so he's taken majority ownership of the Alliance group
Dawn Meats have. His quote is we know what's requ
wired to make a business hum properly. They tell me
he's a really good bloke. But is he a bit
of a hard ass? He'd have to be, wouldn't he.
Speaker 4 (35:08):
You would have to.
Speaker 7 (35:09):
Be to turn a line tround. But he seems like
quite a nice guy. And you know they've turned around
a number of meat companies in Europe, so I think
they're going to do a pretty good job of Alliance
and it's going to be a pretty strong competitor if
they can take off everything that they want to do.
But it seems to be that the company is going
to be a lot less corporate than what at once was.
I know they had quite a big office in christ Church,
(35:30):
but even there in the cargo offices going back out
to Launeville, I think less corporate and less centralized as
the mantra.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
Well, I always did wonder why Alliance Group moved their
head office to christ Church and the cargo's where it
was founded, that's where the office should have been.
Speaker 7 (35:45):
Well, yes, but I guess you know, christ Church is
an international airport there. When you're running a global business there,
you've got to be in and out of the airport, so
there probably is an argument for that, But yeah, I
think it'd be It's quite an interesting I don't think
there would be a meat company, and particularly one of
the big ones that have the head office that particularly
flagship plant, so I think that's quite an interesting move really.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
Well, Silver fir and Farms has its head office here
in Dunedin. It's flagship plants are at the seend of
the country.
Speaker 7 (36:14):
Yes, but not on site though, no.
Speaker 2 (36:17):
Okay, fair enough. So he's had a bit of a cleanout,
hasn't he in terms of the executive, he's cut it
down and I guess that's fair enough because they're bringing
in all the dawn meets executive horsepower.
Speaker 7 (36:29):
Yes, the door meats understand have traveled out here quite
a bit and extensibly and looking over the business as
you would do when you've just bought a business that
desperately needs to turn around. But the Alliance executive is
now half the size of what it once was. They
lost the CEO, the CFO and the head of live Stock,
all of which have obviously been replaced now as the CEO,
(36:50):
of course, but Rob Stole was coming over from Siddeley
to be the CFO there. But I think that's probably
quite a signals actually what they're doing there. They're basically
cutting the place out, you know, smaller, smaller executive than
more accountable for their responsibilities, which is some companies around
(37:12):
the country should look at the size of their executives
and then look at a lance.
Speaker 2 (37:18):
Any companies in particular Riley. That was a pointed comment,
a comment, It was.
Speaker 7 (37:24):
A very pointed comment. But some companies have, you know,
twelve people on their executive but you know Alliance now
got six, having off the top of meat.
Speaker 2 (37:34):
It hasn't well in some ways. It hasn't been a
great week farmer announcement wise, Riley, because we had Fonterra
dropping the milk forecast milk price fifty cents earlier in
the week, and then we had a wall cell yesterday,
and I've got some info on that somewhere. I am
literally drowning in paper here today, Riley. So just when
you thought it was safe to go back into the water,
(37:54):
yesterday's sail in christ it strong will indicate it down
sixty two cents. That's an nearly ten percent drop. Only
sixty two percent wall sold, thirty eight percent passed. And
I hope this is just a small glitch or aberration.
But I guess what when gravity eventually, you know, takes over,
doesn't it?
Speaker 7 (38:14):
Yeah, it does, And of course it's it's it was
a fine demand thing that you know, the wall supply
drop quite a bit. But I think at the moment
you've got a bit of a dynamic going on of
the manufacturers can't pass through the costs of consumers. And
then you go out and buy a Marino coat, you'll
notice that the price has gone up and at some
(38:35):
point the manufacturers have to go all, well, hold on,
we actually can't pass us through to the consumer, so
we actually just can't buy as much walls. But I
don't think it's going to be There's there's a bit
of a correction going on, but it depends how long
that correction goes.
Speaker 2 (38:51):
Well, can I get one final comment from you? Because
I haven't touched on this and I should have, and
this is the bird flu thing. How worried do you
think we should be? Because I know MPI is doing
a good job. They've got the hot line eight hundred
and eighty ninety nine sixty six. If you see three
or more dead birds or sick birds together, they want it,
they want it reported. Just give me twenty seconds on this.
Speaker 7 (39:13):
I think it's I haven't really followed it at all,
But the worst thing you can do in these sort
of situations is going and panic. So I've been cautious,
you know. I guess I was listening to Andrew Hogout
the other night, and I thought he spoke quite well
in that press conference. He said there should be no
cause for alarm over and just sort of calm down
(39:33):
would be the best course of action.
Speaker 2 (39:35):
He's a man who's very frugal on hyperbole, isn't he right? He? Oh,
there we go. We're going to take a break. We're
going to wrap it with some of your feedback. Wrapping
the Country with some of your feedback. After listening to
Steve when Harris, my conclusion is the weather is unpredictable.
Thank you, Doug. A surprisingly good show today, Jamie, well done.
(39:56):
That's from the Bitter and Twisted MUDs and hawks By.
Thank you. That's us. We're done and dust to listen
to the best of the Country tomorrow morning between six
and seven. We'll catch you back on Monday. How good's
that Irish Test going to be? Go the Abs?
Speaker 5 (40:11):
Why the old.
Speaker 6 (40:15):
Catch All?
Speaker 1 (40:15):
The latest from the Land. It's the Country Podcast with
Jamie Mackay. Thanks to Farmland's delivering solutions for strong productive crops.
Catch all the latest from the land. It's the Country
Podcast with Jamie McKay thanks to Farmlands delivering solutions for
strong productive crops.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
But my love get a New Zealand. Welcome to the Country.
I'm Jamie MacKaye. The show is brought to you by
Farmlands and Isuzu a bit of Irish music. Looking forward
to that test tomorrow night at Eden Park the Fortress.
We haven't lost there since the French scored the try
from the End of the Earth We're back in nineteen
ninety four. Got a bit of a rugby connection on
(00:55):
the show. Today we're going to be chatting shortly to
John Morby, father of Josh. He went on my Rugby
World Cup tour in twenty fifteen along with his lovely
wife Debbie to the UK, so it'd be great to
catch up with John again. Talk a bit of farming
they're large scale dairy farmers in Tiawamutu, and talk a
bit of footy as well. Steve wyn Harris Central Hawk
(01:19):
Space She Can Be Farmer, a radio host on Central
FM and also a former very well read broad not broadcaster,
columnist and The Farmer's Weekly. Now Steve has been farming
for quite a while. Has been a longtime observer of
weather patterns and we're going to get his take. And
he's written a really interesting article for us. We're going
to publish it today on the prospect of a super
(01:42):
al Nino. I'm trying to get a hold of Nile
Brown talking about the Irish. He's the chief executive of
Dawn Meats. Of course they bought the Alliance Group, or
took over the Alliance Group, or became a joint venture,
whatever you want to call it. He's in the country
at the moment for the rugby test. Has he turned
the Alliance Group around? Hopefully? Well, we chat to him,
but I've got a backup plan if that fails. And
(02:03):
Barry Soper on celebrity candidates top and Winston being Winston.
But let's kick it off with Mark Hooper. He's a
Taranaki Calkocky Federated Farmers Banking an RIMA Reform spokesperson. Mark.
Good afternoon. Have you started carving it on your Taranaki farm?
Speaker 3 (02:23):
Yeah, good afternoon, Jamie. Yes, we certainly have probably a
dozen or so in so it's just starting to really
ramp up.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
Is it something you look forward to or something you dread.
I mean, being a former sheep farmer, was always excited
about the harvest of lambing. But I can't say I
ever really look forward to lambing season.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
It's kind of one of those situations where you you're
not looking forward to it, but once it gets underway,
you just kind of really want to get on with
the job and get it done, so then you're sort
of looking forward to seeing more come in and get
it over with as soon as possible.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
I want to start with Federated Farmers Banking or latest
banking survey. Some really interesting numbers, and I've just had
a quick readily, so forgive me if I don't get
all the numbers right. So farmers have been repaying debt,
which is good. I mean, the farm debt has dropped
one point four billion to sixty one point two billion.
(03:22):
And I would have thought, for the life for me
that surely the dairy farmers would have had the biggest
median mortgage, but no, that's not the case. It's the
arable farmers. They've got an average or a median mortgage
of three point five million, the highest of all farm types,
and they're getting the worst returns at the moment.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
Yeah, yeah, so that's right. So a little bit of
confusion there preps in terminology because the average for the
dairy survey is higher, but that's because there's some significant,
big players that make up those numbers. So it's more
reflective in terms of what the situation is if you
use the median, and the median number puts arable. Really,
(04:08):
whichever way you do it, it puts the arable guys
certainly got the heat on. They've got the highest median
mortgage and they've got the most commodity pressure and rising
costs pressure on them. So a bit of a tough
situation for those guys.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Oh absolutely, mind you you look at the cost of
heads or combine harvesters, whatever you want to call them,
you can get up they can be up to a
million bucks.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
Yeah, So that's the major issue actually, is the replacement
process there. And for a lot of guys, you know,
they would have had that on a regular whatever it is,
three or five year kind of cycle, and that's almost
become incredibly difficult at the top end. And that has
a flowdown effect of course on the secondhand market as well,
(04:53):
because there'll be a lot of other small operators that
are looking out for those machines, but if they're not available,
keeps a squeeze on all the way through.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
So the survey was taken over five hundred and forty farmers,
which is a pretty good sample size when you consider
the total number of farmers in the country. Here's another
number that's quite interesting. The number of respondents with mortgages
under two million dollars has risen to forty one percent,
up from thirty eight. So that's a good number, but
(05:22):
it just goes to show you that, not surprisingly, when
you're dealing with large asset bases, there's a lot of
debt behind it.
Speaker 3 (05:30):
Yeah, there is, actually I think you'll find that there's
the number of farmers with mortgages under two million has
actually increase. So that's the reflection of the amount of
debt that has been paid down and so just you know,
a little bit of a little bit of more regal
room I guess coming in there in terms of the
(05:53):
strategic use of both the good cash flow that we
had during the autumn, and of course the Fonterra capital
redistribution is perhaps playing into that as well.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
The average mortgage rate was five point four nine percent
down from five point seven eight percent in the November survey.
Two out of five respondents in this May survey have
over seventy five percent of their loans on floating and
I guess, like a lot of business people, they've been
riding the ocr down on floating rates, but now it's
(06:28):
heading the other way. So I wouldn't be surprised Mark
Hooper if when you do your next banking survey, the
average mortgage rate's probably going to be more than five
point four nine percent.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
Yeah, yeah, well it's better that And so it is
interesting just looking at what those ratios in terms of
fixed and unfixed, and there is a bit of exposure there,
so that's certainly an area of risk. I guess the
thing to also consider around those average interest rates is
(07:00):
that there's quite a lot of very variance in those
rates in the rural sector, and so the banks also
earn a situation where they're competing quite strongly for that
share of the rural debt. And so that's going to
help in terms of keeping a little bit of a
lid on that process. And I think you know, within
(07:20):
that gope, if the people are doing good budgets and
are showing good business performance, then there is opportunity to
keep those interest rates fairly tight.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Okay, just some good news for the banks to finish with,
because there were they off and our easy targets for us.
All farmer's satisfaction with banks reached sixty nine percent in May,
the highest rate recorded in the last eight years of
the FED Farmers twice a year banking surveys, and the
other one was because this number was getting worryingly high.
Number of farmers who said they were feeling undue pressure
(07:51):
from their bank came in at just ten percent, the
lowest since twenty eighteen. So that's a good news or
two good numbers to finish with. Now, I want to
you to put on your MA reform hat, Mark Hooper,
Why is fed's well, Why are FED sounding the alarm
over councils rushing to sign new EWE partnership agreements before
(08:13):
the Resource Management Act is replaced? Is this skullduggery?
Speaker 3 (08:18):
Well, there's certainly a bit of a gold rush of
activity happening there at the moment we've just understanding. I
guess what the bigger picture is, and that is these agreements.
The motherfucker agreements are a joint decision making kind of
agreement on how councils and e we will operate around
(08:40):
resource management planning processes and what have you. So there's
two things to understand here. One is why these are
sort of generally problematic. They're not all a standard template,
so they do vary a bit. And the second thing
is to why there's such a rush on at the moment,
and that's because there's I guess reasonably well signaled in
(09:03):
the new resource management legislation coming out in the Natural
Environment Bill. That's the process of being able to introduce
new agreements is likely to be stopped. And so there's
a rush on with them at the moment because if
you've got one underway now or signed up, it's a
(09:25):
statutory agreement, so that means it carries forward into whatever
new entity there might be, either after the legislation has
been passed or even after a council has been reformed.
So if you can get them through now, they carry on.
And so that's why there's a real rush happening at present.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
Well, we're relying on you guys at feeds to keep
Mark Cooper, thanks for your Tom, good luck carving on
your Taranaki dairy farm.
Speaker 3 (09:51):
Thank you for that.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
There we go, Mark Cooper. That is sixteen after twelve
from one dairy farmer and Taranaki to one in Wykado.
Up next, John Morby. I haven't spoken to John for
eleven years. Hopefully he remembers who I am. He went
on my Rugby World Cup tour in twenty fifteen. He is,
(10:12):
of course, and his wife Debbie the parents proud parents,
very proud parents of Josh Morby. Gee, he's made every
post winner, hasn't he. The only problem with Josh is
he's no longer a South can Stag. But never mind,
he's going to do us proud at Eden Park tomorrow.
Steven Harrison, Central Hawks, Bay sheep and beef farmer, longtime
observer of weather patterns. He's got some interesting comments to
(10:36):
make about the prospect of a super al Nino. Maybe
Nile Brown, chief executive of Dawn meets. Don't know if
he'll turn up or not. Very Soper definitely. Well, it's
all on the country and it's all brought to you
by is Suzu and Farmlands. I was going to say Rabobank,
they bring you the best of the country. Tomorrow morning,
(11:20):
Welcome back to the country. Just about missing my musical
intro there. I was that busy gassing to a man
I hadn't talked to for eleven years. John Morby along
with his wife Debbie proud parents of Josh Morby, who
will make his starting debut for the All Blacks at
Eden Park against Ireland. Can fortress Eden Park remain? We'll
come back to the footy, hey, John, you and Debbie run.
(11:45):
It's almost an empire. Fifteen hundred cows on five hundred hectares.
You've done well. You didn't have that many when we
went on our Rugby World Cup tour in twenty fifteen.
Good afternoon.
Speaker 4 (11:55):
I had about half that, Jamie, he had about six
hundred and fifty nens.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
Are you and Debbie started out or started your careers
as sheer milk, Isn't It just goes to show that
through the dairy industry the pathway is there?
Speaker 5 (12:08):
Yeah? Yeah, we did.
Speaker 4 (12:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
So tell me about about your dairy farming operation. You
are one of the biggest operations as I understand it,
in the Wypad district.
Speaker 4 (12:18):
Yep. Yeah, we're we're just inside of Tao Mudu. We
milk fifteen hundred cows through two sheds. I have a
contract milker doing two sixty and myself would staff to
twelve forty in eighty bar Rout Tree.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
Yes, and my informants tell me John that your your
farm features one of the most technologically advanced milking parlors
in the Wypad district. What is that? That's flash parlance
for what?
Speaker 4 (12:46):
Ah, No, we've just got We've just got a saving
your old cowshed with what was the most latest stuff
at that time, So seven year old now, but it's
all a wait Kato plant and a locally built cowshed
from local builders, and yeah it all looks pretty good.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
Yeah, has that technology been surpassed now if you built
a brand new one? Now, how much different would it be?
Speaker 4 (13:10):
Oh? I think they'd probably be a little bit more
in the air and it would certainly cost probably double
tod iplaid in the last sist one up in the
last even years, I would have presumed. So yeah, no,
it's still basically milks the cows. But we've just got
the standard automatic cut removers and automatic peach spray. We've
got an auto draft in there, so yeah, we can
(13:33):
milk about four hundred and eighty cows an hour. So
it goes good. It's good.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
Are you Are you a Fonterra supplier, Yes, yes, So
they came out excuse me earlier this week on Monday,
I think it was you spoke to Richard Allen that
forecast milk price down fifty cents. Disappointing but not really
a surprise. And when we marry that up with the
other number, the break even milk, this is darien Z's
(14:00):
break even milk price. Because I talked to Tracy Brown,
another Wakehato dairy farmer at midweek on the show eight
seventy nine break even price nine to twenty five forecast
milk price for what it's worth. The margins are getting
a bit squeezed.
Speaker 4 (14:13):
They are getting a bit squeezed. But we've got to well,
we've just got to live with that and try and
save I guess where we can. But I always have
a I always follow just to feed the cows and
they'll look after you. So so we just carry on
and we just feed them.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
You'll be taking a bit of time off the farm
in the next month or two, will you. You're going
to South Africa.
Speaker 4 (14:38):
Well, I'm still fully involved. I still yeah, I still
run the day to day. So Josh making the or
Blacks has sort of got the jump on me a
little bit. So I will we're we're we're two hundred
cows into carving. So no, I won't go to South
Africa because I'll be carving. But but I have made
(14:59):
a promise to him, with how and my wife that
we will will go over to the UK when they
all blecks go that way. Hopefully he does enough to
still be there.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
Well, he started with a hiss and a roar. The
only disappointing thing I said, John and introing this, I
don't know whether you heard this. I'm just a wee
bit disappointed he's he's not still playing for myself and
stags because he was great for us.
Speaker 4 (15:21):
Yeah, actually it was a really good time in his life.
He he sells on offer a chance to sort of
go for it, and so we did and he's never
regretted it. Some damn good people down there. We certainly
enjoyed our trips to turn the card to watch him,
and that did some really good people there, mainly Breach
(15:45):
Shepherd pup nickname it.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
Well, I don't know if I don't know if i'd
described him as a really good person. You you you
obviously never played rugby against him. There will be a
few people who would probably argue otherwise.
Speaker 4 (15:59):
Well what he was damn good to Josh and Josh
was down there, Josh arrived, He got him into the
Woodlands Club like he likes to get there.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
He like, he gets likes he gets every rugby player
that ever comes to South. But I mean people will
think I'm having a crack. I love Puppy's a good mate,
but he's he does he does absolutely great work.
Speaker 4 (16:19):
He does well. He got Josh down there, bought him
a double bed, gave him a little car, a little ship,
he mind you, but he gave him a little car
to get around him and and you know those sort
of things you don't forget.
Speaker 3 (16:30):
Ah.
Speaker 4 (16:31):
So yeah, so yeah that was good. And that little
car drove him up to to the need him now
and again to do a fill in training with with
the Highlanders and so yeah, no that's yeah, that's yeah,
that's all history now. But it was it was good times.
Speaker 5 (16:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
What I love about Josh's story is that he wasn't
one of these kids who played for every New Zealand
age group team. And I think he only got into
the first fifteen in his final years at Hamilton Boys High.
Is that about right?
Speaker 3 (17:04):
Am I?
Speaker 2 (17:04):
Right there?
Speaker 5 (17:05):
Yeah?
Speaker 6 (17:05):
It was.
Speaker 4 (17:05):
That's that's when he grew. And he when he was
intermediate was a little feller. He is quite small. He
played roll of Mills rugby in the y kidder for
two years because he was quite skillful, but he was
just small and so when he got to Hamilton Boys,
he was he just wasn't big enough and that was
that he still had a school and it wasn't until
(17:25):
his last year school that he that he actually grew
and they put him in the sixteen in the resters year.
It's just gone well from.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
The air well. He's had a ripper of a year
for the Hurricanes. Deserved his selection made every post or
Wanner and to be compared in your first Test match
to Will Jordan, because there's a lot of similarities between
the pair of them, he must be very proud.
Speaker 4 (17:48):
Very proud.
Speaker 6 (17:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (17:49):
Actually the odd time you got to look twice to
see if it's Josh or wild yeah or who it is.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
Yeah, they're very similar.
Speaker 6 (17:56):
Hey.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
And just before I go, another Southern connection, your other
son Cam who's doing very well as a rugby coach,
as I understand it, is married to a good Southland girl,
Tory Peters, who's of course the New Zealand javelin champion.
Speaker 4 (18:09):
That's right, Yep, that's right, yes, and.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
Daughter of and daughter of Southland's best dairy farmer, Harry Peters.
Just ask Carrie.
Speaker 4 (18:17):
Yeah, he tell you that.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
He good. Good Riversdale people. Hey, John, I hope you
and Debbie well, I know you'll be heading to Eaton
Park tomorrow night. It's great to catch up again after
all these years. And good luck tomorrow night. I'm so
pleased that he's made it because he's absolutely deserved it.
Speaker 4 (18:35):
Oh, thanks very much, Jamie. Hey, just before I go,
I just want to mention a couple of other people
that have been involved in Josh's juny Aaron Major, he
t shoulder tapped, Jason Holland. So you know guys like
Aaron Major. Jason Holland's been very good to Josh, and
so is Cory Jane. Cory Jane's been fantastic. So yeah,
good people, good people around you. You can you can
(18:58):
achieve anything.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
May All right, you're off for saying Brent Shepherd was
a good bloke. Hello, Papa, if you're listening down on
in for cargo. He's got that big check book. And
anyone who comes anywhere near south and they get lured
by the Brent Shepherd check book and they all play
for Woodlands, one of the great rugby clubs in Southland
(19:20):
behind Rivers. Far up next? Who's up next? I've got
no idea. Where's my piece of paper?
Speaker 4 (19:25):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (19:25):
Steve wan Harris. I think he might have played for
the third fifteen at Central Hawks Bay High School back
in the day. But he's been a very successful farmer,
still is and a long time observer of weather patterns.
We're going to see what Steve makes and why pookerel
of the prospect of a super al Nino.
Speaker 4 (19:48):
Wow, So tram.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
Trump, welcome back to the country, bang on at twelve thirty.
Now I need to get Michelle to wander in here
at some stage and set up my text screen. It's
disappeared on me, but I have got a text in
(20:14):
from Jeremy Rocks. He said, quality man, mister Morby. He said,
it's great when people acknowledge those who contribute to their success.
And he says, perhaps I could learn from I think
that's a subtle dig suggesting that Jeremy is responsible for
any small successes I've had in radio. Here's a man
(20:34):
who's had great success in rural broadcasting. Steve Van Harris,
Central Hawks Bay owner, co owner of Central FM, runs
the Cockies Hour every Thursday. Hey Steve, good afternoon. You've
been doing some homework on the prospects of a super
al Nino.
Speaker 5 (20:51):
Yeah, well, it's what the climate scientists are calling us.
And I've heard you've hit some feedback people saying that
you're alarmist. And I wrote a piece for my son
and his mates actually just given the experience I've had
with these climate cycles over nearly fifty years. And it
started back in eighty two eighty three, and it started
blowing in September and it blew. It cuts off right
(21:13):
through that spring and summer, right into the autumn, and
didn't stop until about May. It was incessant and it
drove men and beast crazy. And we've got a big
lake near us called Lake far Tuma, and I went
down and walked across it, and you hadn't been able
to do that before. Since there's been other droughts with
less rain. This one had a lot of Abafo transpiration,
which we often overlooked and these other droughts. It was
(21:37):
still very mucky. You couldn't walk across it or anything.
So it was a unique drought. And they started the
climate scientists started talking about this thing called our Nino,
that this was an ol Nino event. So that was
the first that I and probably many others had ever
heard of these events. And it was compounded that drought
by the fact that we were under molding subsidies which
were encouraging people not to do stock, you know, to
have stock on a balance dates and Nama reason why
(22:00):
you shouldn't have subsidies anyway. So I came to the
belief of l Nino bad, Larnina good. That was disproved
quite quickly in eighty eight eighty nine when we had
a very nasty Larnina drought. So we're not talking about
al Nino and larnin. It's and the Southern Oscillation Index.
The Southern Oscillation Index is a measure of the difference
and pressures from Darwin across the Tahiti. Anyway, this current
(22:22):
one is down to minus twenty seven now and on
the Southern Oscillation Index, and that's the last and twenty years.
And in the last fifty years there's just been three
other events, including the eighty two eighty three one I've
talked about, that have been similar sort of negative in
the Southern Oscillation index, and that's nineteen ninety eight ninety nine,
(22:44):
and that was a very bad drought. But there was
another one when there was in two thousand and five
where there was no drought. And we've had about five
bad Larnina droughts and about four bad al Nino droughts,
so you know they're equally is dangerous. It's about the
depth of the Southern Oscillation index. You know how far
(23:05):
away it goes from neutral. That is the reason.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
You know, okay, Steve, and people can read all about
it because you've done You've got some wonderful grafts and
you've explained all those dates. And just you mentioned the
nineties just by memory. What was that really bad one
in Marlborough that was about what ninety seven ninety eight
was it?
Speaker 5 (23:22):
That's correct?
Speaker 2 (23:23):
Yeah, that was an our Nino drought though, wasn't it.
Speaker 5 (23:26):
Yes, Yes, you've being on right.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
That's the one. Our old mate Doug Avery. It forced
him or it made him change his farming practices and
become the resilient farmer.
Speaker 5 (23:36):
Well, I think eighty two eighty three changed out practices dramatically.
You know, we had probably ninety percent capital stock. I'm
just a rule of farm, but a large amount of
capital stock, and we learned quickly to get more trading stock,
have have more flexible systems. And each of the droughts,
you know, that's sort of ten droughts in my forty years,
so won every four years we're overdo one. Actually, he
(23:57):
teachers is something every time. But then you know you're
an old guy me sort of disappearing from the stage exit.
So that's why I write that piece really because there's
some learnings there.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
In terms of state, Steve, you're not allowed to use
learnings on the show. It's not a word, okay, whatever,
So you can use lessons if you want.
Speaker 5 (24:15):
Well, yeah, you could use it. It's all show. You
could use any words you want.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
Jay, Well, it's our show, Steve, because it's broadcasting on
Central FM as well. Look, and once again we're going
to publish this chane or do it very shortly. But
what is your prediction or prognosis or whatever the word
is for this season and you know, I'm not being
alarmist about a super on then, you know, but when
people like Brandolino and that are saying this is possibly
(24:40):
the worst one, potentially the worst one ever, what's your advice.
You've been around, you've been doing this for forty forty
five years.
Speaker 5 (24:47):
Well, let's hope it's not the worst one forever. Because
this data ship goes back to eighteen seventy six and
then eighteen ninety six and nineteen oh five it went
to minus forty ned eighty to eighty three to one
was in the minus thirty area. So I think it's
about probability, Jamie. There's no doubt that this is turning
into a significant al nino. But as I've explained that,
there have been bad al ninos and bed larinas where
(25:11):
no drought came. And in fact, there was one famous
one where I helped organize a field day at Pokawa
here in Hook's Faith because it was very dry spring
it was an al nino. We got the climate scientists
down and we could not hear them for the rain
on the on the roof of the tent. It was
Torridially everyone we all thought it was a great joke.
You know, if you've got a big drought, to have
a drought field day and break it. Unfortunately, I had
(25:33):
already stopped ahead of the curve because it had been
dry and I was expecting a drought, and it rained.
It rained all summer, and when I remonstrated with the
climate scientists, they said, Steve, one and four our ninos
can be very wet. So in the end, you've got
to be aware of this climate science cycle. But you know,
we won't know until it happens what its effects are.
(25:54):
And of course there are other there are other things
called the Indian diapole in the southern Lost. There's another
one down there Antarctic and in his climate change, so
these cycles may behave differently.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
So all right, Steve, that's a bit of a I
just need to keep moving on. Hey, look, thank you
very much for your time. We will publish this because
you've gone to a lot of effort, and it's a
lot of effort to write a message for your son Jason.
You could have just wandered down and told.
Speaker 5 (26:20):
The Yeah, I mean, just you know, the probability is
probably higher for a drought, but it's not necessarily going
to be one. Just remain flexible and keep pulling leavers
if you need to.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
Good on you. Hey, great to catch up, Steve, really
appreciate and your story about the drought field Day reminds
me of the drought shout we did in the Riversdale
Pub in two thousand and four, very very dry season.
Guess when the drought broke that night. Yeah, see you later.
Speaker 4 (26:46):
Thanks too much.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
He does a good job, Steve. When Harris it is
twenty three away from one up next Rare on news
Sports News. I'm trying to get a hold of Nile Brown,
the chief exitive a Dawn Meats. He's the bloke who's
taken over the Alliance group. He's gone on. Their new
(27:08):
broom has swept clean. There's been a few changes, I
think the headline and the story in business deest, he said,
reaching for his twentieth piece of paper today. We know
what's required to make a business hum properly, said Nile.
He's here for the footy. We'll try and catch him,
but anyhow, Barry Soap is definitely coming up before the
end of the hour, and maybe the Rural Broadcaster of
(27:30):
the Year Riley Kennedy. If you're lucky, welcome back to
the country twenty away from one. Michelle's wandered and he
(27:50):
even said, was I bored by Steve's Diepoles?
Speaker 4 (27:53):
No?
Speaker 2 (27:54):
I wasn't, And I apologize if I sounded bored by
Steve's diepoles. I don't. He's done a lot of homework
and Jane's going to put the story up on our website,
right she is.
Speaker 6 (28:03):
And I found it very interesting, Steve, So keep up
the good work.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
Yeah, we love you, Steve. He's done a lot of research.
As I said, he wrote it for his son and
his farming mates. You got to take it. So We'll
go to the ypocrrel pub and I'll tell you. I'll
give you a week history lesson. But thank goodness he's
written it down. It'll be worth a read. Okay, Here's
Rural News.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
The Country's rural News with cub Cadet. It's one thing
to talk in a vashion another to back it up,
drive it. We dare you visit steel for dot Cotolenz for.
Speaker 6 (28:31):
Your locals, Dog Guest and New Zealand and Switzerland have
agreed to establish a Trade and Investment Dialogue to explore
an agreement on trade, economic security, e commerce, investment and sustainability.
The announcement was made today following a meeting between Minister
Maclay and Swiss State Secretary for Economic Affairs Helen bood Lee.
(28:52):
Aga at Aida, there we go, I got that right?
Two ways.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
Well, no one knows if you've got it right. We
don't know what her name is, but it sounded quite good. Actually,
remember the Keith Quinn theory. If in doubts, say it quickly.
Speaker 6 (29:03):
Well so anyway, two way trade between Heysland and Switzerland
was worth New Zealand one point eight eight billion in
the year ending December twenty twenty five, and key exports
included travel services, meat, eatable offal and hides and skins
and the imports from Switzerland. Now this is an interesting one, Jamie.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
What do you think we bring?
Speaker 6 (29:21):
Which chocolate is an on this list?
Speaker 2 (29:22):
Watchers?
Speaker 6 (29:23):
Watchers, Yes, pharmaceuticals, insurance, pension services and charges for the
use of intellectual property. So really interesting. The officials are
hold their first meeting about this in September, and you've
got sport.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
Sports on the country with a fco business.
Speaker 5 (29:40):
Well done.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
Now, we had an earthquake down the bottom of the
country at about quarter past nine last night. A lot
of traffic going around. Who felt it? I didn't. I
was watching the golf.
Speaker 6 (29:51):
Yeah, I thought that my husband was playing a trick
on me and I kind of looked at him, but
he gave me that look of it's not me and
we felt at airplace. But obviously Mansion mckaye is on
tougher ground in our house.
Speaker 2 (30:02):
Wow. Now have I played the sports line? Yeah? I have?
Right The surprise leader talking about the golf after the
opening round of one hundred and fifty fourth Open Championship.
Isn't just playing in Europe for the first time? American
Jackson Suber says he's only played. He's also only played
(30:26):
his first round of links golf this week. How amazing
is that the twenty six year old leads the chasing
pack at Royal Birkdale by one shot after a stunning
opening round of five under sixty five. Now Royal Birkdale
is between sort of Liverpool, Manchester and up to Blackpool,
and you can just see by watching that what a
(30:48):
precarious position the UK is in terms of a drought.
It is tender drive. Now, just before I forget balance,
agrinutrients has been around for nearly eighty years and there's
a good reason for that. They're a farmer owned co op,
which means they're not answering to some over seas shareholder.
The farmers own them. They're answering obviously to farmers like you,
(31:11):
supplying the nutrients and solutions that help you make every
dollar account and farm more productively and profitably for generations
to come. Now worth mentioning Michelle and Tony Roberts from
Top Deck Trading down in South and this year they
picked up the Gordon Steys Stevenson Trophy at the National
Sustainability Showcase and they're now the National Ambassadors for Sustainable
(31:35):
Farming and Growing. In other words, they won the Balance
Farm Environment Awards. Good on them. That's a real recognition
for the real work they do on the land. If
their story's got you thinking, jump onto the Balance Farm
Environment Awards website and have a look through more of
these award winning farming and growing stories, or better yet,
put your own hand up to nominate someone. Entries, by
(31:58):
the way, are open for the twenty twenty seven Balance
Farm Environment Awards and you can enter at b if
EA dot org dot in z and I think Hamish
McKay is doing the podcast with the winners.
Speaker 6 (32:11):
Right, it's a fantastic podcast episode. I've listened to it
because I edit these Fever's knowledge and I've edited. I've
listened to it about five times, and I've enjoyed it
each time. That's how good that discussion as it's going
looking at.
Speaker 2 (32:22):
They've got a great story, Michelle, Michelle and Tony Roberts,
that is. And we'll try and catch up with them,
because we couldn't get them the day after they won
the Balance Farm Environment Awards, unfortunately, because they were in transit.
Up next. I'm still still trying to get Nile Brown
from Dawn meets the Chief, the Irish bloke who's bought
(32:44):
the Alliance Group or taken over the Alliance Group. He's
here for the food. He will try him. Failing that,
we've got a we've got a second option. Not a
very good one, but we've got a second option. My goodness.
(33:06):
Live radio has its ups and down moments, make chaos,
Mayhem and Auckland, Riley Kennedy from Business Desk, who's filling
in for Nile Brown, yelling out, don't come into this room.
I'm doing a radio interview. Just while Riley gets rid
of the hordes of fans outside his studio or booth
or whatever he's in in Auckland. I want to get
(33:27):
this message across from our partners at Farmstrong before I
forget farmers tell us that coping with the ups and
downs of farming is a lot easier when you share
the load. That's why it's great to have a natter
and get things off your chest. So why not make
time this weekend to catch up with a mate over
a coffee or a bear. I personally recommend the pub
on a Friday night if you're a farmer not in
(33:48):
the rugby season, because that ought to track from your
footy game, but it's a good time to have a yarn.
Talking to others is a great way to lighten the backpack.
I like that and stay farm strong. For more tips
and tools, head to farmstrong dot co. Got in Zaid
Riley Kennedy from Business Desk written an excellent story on
Nile Brown Dawn meets in the Alliance group. You told
(34:10):
me you would get him on the show for me
today you've let me down.
Speaker 7 (34:14):
Yes, you're good, A good afternoon. I'm apologies for not
being your EA, but I was actually doing my own job.
Speaker 2 (34:21):
Well, I know what you've been doing this morning, and
most of it hasn't involved work. You have been poking
bre Exit, another leading rural broadcaster.
Speaker 7 (34:30):
Yes, and he was texting me while he was on
air too, and I thought, well, well let's.
Speaker 2 (34:35):
Not encourage him. We don't want to give him publicity. Hey,
we're going to try and get Nile Brown on the show.
Have you talked to him or did you go through
an intermediary? No?
Speaker 7 (34:45):
No, I did talk to him. He's here. He's going
to the Rugby tomorrow night, which is a test of
his loyalty.
Speaker 2 (34:52):
Actually, so he's taken majority ownership of the Alliance group
Dawn Meats have. His quote is we know what's requ
wired to make a business hum properly. They tell me
he's a really good bloke. But is he a bit
of a hard ass? He'd have to be, wouldn't he.
Speaker 4 (35:08):
You would have to.
Speaker 7 (35:09):
Be to turn a line tround. But he seems like
quite a nice guy. And you know they've turned around
a number of meat companies in Europe, so I think
they're going to do a pretty good job of Alliance
and it's going to be a pretty strong competitor if
they can take off everything that they want to do.
But it seems to be that the company is going
to be a lot less corporate than what at once was.
I know they had quite a big office in christ Church,
(35:30):
but even there in the cargo offices going back out
to Launeville, I think less corporate and less centralized as
the mantra.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
Well, I always did wonder why Alliance Group moved their
head office to christ Church and the cargo's where it
was founded, that's where the office should have been.
Speaker 7 (35:45):
Well, yes, but I guess you know, christ Church is
an international airport there. When you're running a global business there,
you've got to be in and out of the airport, so
there probably is an argument for that, But yeah, I
think it'd be It's quite an interesting I don't think
there would be a meat company, and particularly one of
the big ones that have the head office that particularly
flagship plant, so I think that's quite an interesting move really.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
Well, Silver fir and Farms has its head office here
in Dunedin. It's flagship plants are at the seend of
the country.
Speaker 7 (36:14):
Yes, but not on site though, no.
Speaker 2 (36:17):
Okay, fair enough. So he's had a bit of a cleanout,
hasn't he in terms of the executive, he's cut it
down and I guess that's fair enough because they're bringing
in all the dawn meets executive horsepower.
Speaker 7 (36:29):
Yes, the door meats understand have traveled out here quite
a bit and extensibly and looking over the business as
you would do when you've just bought a business that
desperately needs to turn around. But the Alliance executive is
now half the size of what it once was. They
lost the CEO, the CFO and the head of live Stock,
all of which have obviously been replaced now as the CEO,
(36:50):
of course, but Rob Stole was coming over from Siddeley
to be the CFO there. But I think that's probably
quite a signals actually what they're doing there. They're basically
cutting the place out, you know, smaller, smaller executive than
more accountable for their responsibilities, which is some companies around
(37:12):
the country should look at the size of their executives
and then look at a lance.
Speaker 2 (37:18):
Any companies in particular Riley. That was a pointed comment,
a comment, It was.
Speaker 7 (37:24):
A very pointed comment. But some companies have, you know,
twelve people on their executive but you know Alliance now
got six, having off the top of meat.
Speaker 2 (37:34):
It hasn't well in some ways. It hasn't been a
great week farmer announcement wise, Riley, because we had Fonterra
dropping the milk forecast milk price fifty cents earlier in
the week, and then we had a wall cell yesterday,
and I've got some info on that somewhere. I am
literally drowning in paper here today, Riley. So just when
you thought it was safe to go back into the water,
(37:54):
yesterday's sail in christ it strong will indicate it down
sixty two cents. That's an nearly ten percent drop. Only
sixty two percent wall sold, thirty eight percent passed. And
I hope this is just a small glitch or aberration.
But I guess what when gravity eventually, you know, takes over,
doesn't it?
Speaker 7 (38:14):
Yeah, it does, And of course it's it's it was
a fine demand thing that you know, the wall supply
drop quite a bit. But I think at the moment
you've got a bit of a dynamic going on of
the manufacturers can't pass through the costs of consumers. And
then you go out and buy a Marino coat, you'll
notice that the price has gone up and at some
(38:35):
point the manufacturers have to go all, well, hold on,
we actually can't pass us through to the consumer, so
we actually just can't buy as much walls. But I
don't think it's going to be There's there's a bit
of a correction going on, but it depends how long
that correction goes.
Speaker 2 (38:51):
Well, can I get one final comment from you? Because
I haven't touched on this and I should have, and
this is the bird flu thing. How worried do you
think we should be? Because I know MPI is doing
a good job. They've got the hot line eight hundred
and eighty ninety nine sixty six. If you see three
or more dead birds or sick birds together, they want it,
they want it reported. Just give me twenty seconds on this.
Speaker 7 (39:13):
I think it's I haven't really followed it at all,
But the worst thing you can do in these sort
of situations is going and panic. So I've been cautious,
you know. I guess I was listening to Andrew Hogout
the other night, and I thought he spoke quite well
in that press conference. He said there should be no
cause for alarm over and just sort of calm down
(39:33):
would be the best course of action.
Speaker 2 (39:35):
He's a man who's very frugal on hyperbole, isn't he right? He? Oh,
there we go. We're going to take a break. We're
going to wrap it with some of your feedback. Wrapping
the Country with some of your feedback. After listening to
Steve when Harris, my conclusion is the weather is unpredictable.
Thank you, Doug. A surprisingly good show today, Jamie, well done.
(39:56):
That's from the Bitter and Twisted MUDs and hawks By.
Thank you. That's us. We're done and dust to listen
to the best of the Country tomorrow morning between six
and seven. We'll catch you back on Monday. How good's
that Irish Test going to be? Go the Abs?
Speaker 5 (40:11):
Why the old.
Speaker 6 (40:15):
Catch All?
Speaker 1 (40:15):
The latest from the Land. It's the Country Podcast with
Jamie Mackay. Thanks to Farmland's delivering solutions for strong productive crops.
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Betrayal Weekly
Betrayal Weekly is back for a new season. Every Thursday, Betrayal Weekly shares first-hand accounts of broken trust, shocking deceptions, and the trail of destruction they leave behind. Hosted by Andrea Gunning, this weekly ongoing series digs into real-life stories of betrayal and the aftermath. From stories of double lives to dark discoveries, these are cautionary tales and accounts of resilience against all odds. From the producers of the critically acclaimed Betrayal series, Betrayal Weekly drops new episodes every Thursday. If you would like to share your story, you can reach out to the Betrayal Team by emailing them at betrayalpod@gmail.com and follow us on Instagram at @betrayalpod and @glasspodcasts. Please join our Substack for additional exclusive content, curated book recommendations, and community discussions. Sign up FREE by clicking this link Beyond Betrayal Substack. Join our community dedicated to truth, resilience, and healing. Your voice matters! Be a part of our Betrayal journey on Substack.