June 10, 2024 • 5 mins
This one-of-a-kind book takes readers on a thrilling journey through the history of women's rugby, offering a fresh and easily digestible perspective on how the sport has evolved.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
The Country Sport Breakfast with Brian Kelly on Gold Sport,
Time to talk women's rugby. Now we don't often do
that on the show. There's a brilliant, brilliant book that's
just been published. It's out and available now called Our
game Maker's Conversations with the Players who built the Game
from the ground up, written by Paula George and Joe
(00:20):
Cared and Joe joins us right now. She knows a
bit about rugby. You've been taking pictures of the All
Blacks for a number of years, really, haven't you, Joe.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
I have been yes from making a living out of
rugby New Zealand, you had to be around the men's game.
So I spent sixteen years in bolf of Biel Blacks
doing their first ever official photographer, and then traveling to
team extensively, but at the same time always covering the
women's game. For ninety eight I covered the World Cup
over in Amsterdam and then to go out the term Barcelona.
(00:51):
So I was always sort of plugging away with the
woman's rugby. But it was very hard, as you can imagine,
you get images sold and to get people interested in
it. It's been a long road.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
And you've teamed up with former England captain Paula George
as well. So she brings a lot of expertise and
wealth to the book too, doesn't she.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
She sure does, especially because it's quite an sort of
unknown fact that she actually played in the first Rugby
World Cup for Wales, and her story alone is sort
of indicative of all the stories through this book. So
she actually came out she's on as a netble in
Port kay O'Riley got her to come out and pay
for the Hearts as they were then in Canterbury and
(01:31):
Lauria Riley Kay's husband quickly got across to rugby and
then she used to the game and convinced that she
should play rugby. So she actually plaid netblew and rugby
for Wales and then went on to become the most
capped player ever at the time when she retired for England.
So yeah, and that's a real reflection. Like I said,
all these stories, people sort of know the name but
(01:52):
don't really know the stories behind them. So that's one
of the reasons we wanted to write this book.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
So the book is called Our Game Makers, So what's
it about?
Speaker 2 (02:02):
So it's about we tried to tell the history of
women's rugby through the woman who actually created it. So
unlike the men's game that always had administrators, these women
had to actually go out there. Some of them even
organize the test matches before they played in them. Two
women actually organized Rugby World Cups before they played in them, which,
as you can imagine's quite unheard of in the men's
game and everyone. So the book is about telling the
(02:26):
story of women's rugby through these player stories.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
And you've got a lot of big names. I mean
I recognized quite a few of them, Melody, Robinson, Porsche Woodman,
Luisa Wall. I mean, the list goes on. How many
of the fifty two I think aren't there fifty two?
Speaker 2 (02:40):
There's thirteen Kiwi, So it's quite a global look. But
we wanted to include people whose names went so well known,
like here the kid, who is actually the first woman
to ever present and commentate on a men's rugby game,
which is actually back in the nineteen eighty seven Rugby
World Cup. People always assume that someone like Melody, who's
more well known now but actually hit us sort of
(03:01):
did it first. Nicki Enwood, who is their first team
to refer an international game. She also played at the
first Woman's Rugby World Cup, and she's a new Zealander
who's just not that well known. So this is a
chance for real diehard rugby parents to read up and
learn a lot more about the history of the game.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
Now, you Joe, being a photographer, I would have thought
there would have been photos in the book, but there
are none.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
I know, I know that's the common response, to be fair.
When I photographed, say that, the Woman's World Cup in
ninety eight, it was still being shot on negatives and transparencies,
and you know, I was hand processing film in my
hotel room, which is really hard to believe now, but
those images, as great as they were, they're still the
woman were playing a massive, big baggy jerseys that looks
(03:44):
really old fashioned, and I wanted to show these women
as the superheroes that they actually are. So we contacted
Hannah Wilkinson, who had done some work with when she
had this is obviously Hannah Wilkinson of the Football First Fame,
and we asked her if she look at journal the
illustrations for the book, and it was so wonderful to
have a female athlete involved in the campaign. She knew
(04:07):
exactly what we were after, and I think she's done
the most amazing job.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
I have to agree. I mean I was blown away
by her images, her drawings of players that we've mentioned
and others as well. They're so likelighted and't realize that
she's actually such a stunning artist.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
She's very true talented young woman, that's for sure.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
So well done. This is a wonderful book, and it's
basically looks at the lives of all these individuals and
their journey into rugby.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
It does. I mean, we're trying to tell the stories
that people don't know, so say Dan Dame Fara Palmer.
Everyone knows that she's won loads of World Cups, but
through her story, she tells us about how the Black
Fern's name originated and how they came up with the
Woman's Taka that they still do today. So and Sarah
Hreny's story doesn't just talk about her successes, but it
(04:56):
also talks about as Here or Maori seventeen, Peter and
Shelley Joseph and the issued contribution to the Woman's Game.
And she still says about them, she wouldn't be where
she is today. So we're trying to tell, go dig deeper,
talk about stories that you won't find a Wikipedia.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
And it's an easy read as well. Well done to Joe,
to you, to Paula George, and to Hannah Wilkinson. It's
a stunning book. Our game makers. Thank you so much
for chatting.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
It's Joe care joining us. So I've just been reading
a couple of little bits and pieces. Joel Burns wrote
a piece in there. She was a rugby World Cup
win for England in nineteen ninety four. She said we
had to walk underneath the sign that said no women
or dogs allowed, simply to enter our rugby club's bar,
which was amazing back in the day.
The Country Sport Breakfast with Brian Kelly on Gold Sport,
Time to talk women's rugby. Now we don't often do
that on the show. There's a brilliant, brilliant book that's
just been published. It's out and available now called Our
game Maker's Conversations with the Players who built the Game
from the ground up, written by Paula George and Joe
(00:20):
Cared and Joe joins us right now. She knows a
bit about rugby. You've been taking pictures of the All
Blacks for a number of years, really, haven't you, Joe.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
I have been yes from making a living out of
rugby New Zealand, you had to be around the men's game.
So I spent sixteen years in bolf of Biel Blacks
doing their first ever official photographer, and then traveling to
team extensively, but at the same time always covering the
women's game. For ninety eight I covered the World Cup
over in Amsterdam and then to go out the term Barcelona.
(00:51):
So I was always sort of plugging away with the
woman's rugby. But it was very hard, as you can imagine,
you get images sold and to get people interested in
it. It's been a long road.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
And you've teamed up with former England captain Paula George
as well. So she brings a lot of expertise and
wealth to the book too, doesn't she.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
She sure does, especially because it's quite an sort of
unknown fact that she actually played in the first Rugby
World Cup for Wales, and her story alone is sort
of indicative of all the stories through this book. So
she actually came out she's on as a netble in
Port kay O'Riley got her to come out and pay
for the Hearts as they were then in Canterbury and
(01:31):
Lauria Riley Kay's husband quickly got across to rugby and
then she used to the game and convinced that she
should play rugby. So she actually plaid netblew and rugby
for Wales and then went on to become the most
capped player ever at the time when she retired for England.
So yeah, and that's a real reflection. Like I said,
all these stories, people sort of know the name but
(01:52):
don't really know the stories behind them. So that's one
of the reasons we wanted to write this book.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
So the book is called Our Game Makers, So what's
it about?
Speaker 2 (02:02):
So it's about we tried to tell the history of
women's rugby through the woman who actually created it. So
unlike the men's game that always had administrators, these women
had to actually go out there. Some of them even
organize the test matches before they played in them. Two
women actually organized Rugby World Cups before they played in them, which,
as you can imagine's quite unheard of in the men's
game and everyone. So the book is about telling the
(02:26):
story of women's rugby through these player stories.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
And you've got a lot of big names. I mean
I recognized quite a few of them, Melody, Robinson, Porsche Woodman,
Luisa Wall. I mean, the list goes on. How many
of the fifty two I think aren't there fifty two?
Speaker 2 (02:40):
There's thirteen Kiwi, So it's quite a global look. But
we wanted to include people whose names went so well known,
like here the kid, who is actually the first woman
to ever present and commentate on a men's rugby game,
which is actually back in the nineteen eighty seven Rugby
World Cup. People always assume that someone like Melody, who's
more well known now but actually hit us sort of
(03:01):
did it first. Nicki Enwood, who is their first team
to refer an international game. She also played at the
first Woman's Rugby World Cup, and she's a new Zealander
who's just not that well known. So this is a
chance for real diehard rugby parents to read up and
learn a lot more about the history of the game.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
Now, you Joe, being a photographer, I would have thought
there would have been photos in the book, but there
are none.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
I know, I know that's the common response, to be fair.
When I photographed, say that, the Woman's World Cup in
ninety eight, it was still being shot on negatives and transparencies,
and you know, I was hand processing film in my
hotel room, which is really hard to believe now, but
those images, as great as they were, they're still the
woman were playing a massive, big baggy jerseys that looks
(03:44):
really old fashioned, and I wanted to show these women
as the superheroes that they actually are. So we contacted
Hannah Wilkinson, who had done some work with when she
had this is obviously Hannah Wilkinson of the Football First Fame,
and we asked her if she look at journal the
illustrations for the book, and it was so wonderful to
have a female athlete involved in the campaign. She knew
(04:07):
exactly what we were after, and I think she's done
the most amazing job.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
I have to agree. I mean I was blown away
by her images, her drawings of players that we've mentioned
and others as well. They're so likelighted and't realize that
she's actually such a stunning artist.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
She's very true talented young woman, that's for sure.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
So well done. This is a wonderful book, and it's
basically looks at the lives of all these individuals and
their journey into rugby.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
It does. I mean, we're trying to tell the stories
that people don't know, so say Dan Dame Fara Palmer.
Everyone knows that she's won loads of World Cups, but
through her story, she tells us about how the Black
Fern's name originated and how they came up with the
Woman's Taka that they still do today. So and Sarah
Hreny's story doesn't just talk about her successes, but it
(04:56):
also talks about as Here or Maori seventeen, Peter and
Shelley Joseph and the issued contribution to the Woman's Game.
And she still says about them, she wouldn't be where
she is today. So we're trying to tell, go dig deeper,
talk about stories that you won't find a Wikipedia.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
And it's an easy read as well. Well done to Joe,
to you, to Paula George, and to Hannah Wilkinson. It's
a stunning book. Our game makers. Thank you so much
for chatting.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
It's Joe care joining us. So I've just been reading
a couple of little bits and pieces. Joel Burns wrote
a piece in there. She was a rugby World Cup
win for England in nineteen ninety four. She said we
had to walk underneath the sign that said no women
or dogs allowed, simply to enter our rugby club's bar,
which was amazing back in the day.
Popular Podcasts
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.