April 13, 2026 • 22 mins
It’s 208 days until Kiwis hit the polls and vote for the next Government.
And despite campaigning not officially starting, the Prime Minister’s performance has been called into question, time and time again.
Accusations range from Luxon leaning too much into corporate speak and acting like a CEO to dodging questions, and even dodging entire press conferences during a global fuel crisis to open a stadium.
With flubbed media interviews going viral, Christopher Luxon’s behaviour is being put under a microscope. So much so that there are whisperings of a coup.
Can one man’s public image impact an entire party? And who’s been sent in to help National months ahead of election day?
Today on The Front Page, NZ Herald Editor-at-Large, and Media Insider, Shayne Currie is with us to break down Luxon’s trials and tribulations, and how he might turn them around.
Follow The Front Page on iHeartRadio, Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.
You can read more about this and other stories in the New Zealand Herald, online at nzherald.co.nz, or tune in to news bulletins across the NZME network.
Host: Chelsea Daniels
Editor/Producer: Richard Martin
Producer: Jane Yee
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Kiyota.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a
daily podcast presented by the New Zealand Herald. It's two
hundred and eight days until kiwis hit the polls and
vote for the next government, and despite campaigning not officially starting.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
The Prime Minister's performance has been called into question time
and time again.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Accusations range from luxe and leaning too much into the
corporate speak and acting like a CEO, to dodging questions
and even dodging entire press conferences during a global fuel crisis,
to open a stadium with flubbed media interviews going viral.
Chris pha Luxen's behavior as being put under a microscope,
(00:52):
so much so that there are whisperings of a potential coup.
Can one man's public image impact and entire higher party?
And who's been sent in to help national months ahead
of election day? Today on the Front Page ends At Herald,
editor at large and media insider Shane Curry is with
us to break down Luxon's trials and tribulations.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
And how he might turn them all around.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
First off, Shane, tell me how is the Prime Minister
doing on the media front?
Speaker 1 (01:25):
Do you think well, Chelsea.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
We've just come from a round of Monday Morning live
media interviews he's had for the first time he's been
up against John Campbell, who's started as the Morning Report
host today and in terms of this morning, a pretty
sort of lackluster, slightly dull round of media interviews, which
the Prime Minister probably will be slightly relieved about, having
(01:48):
had a couple of weeks. We're moments during interviews, particularly
with Tovo O'Brien at TV instead have gone viral for
responses or lack of responses to questions that she's asked
and all are pretty stable response this morning from the
Prime Minister, which, as I say, he'll be pleased about.
Speaker 4 (02:05):
Well.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Luxon's morning media round now consists, like he said of Hosking, Tovah,
John Campbell, John Campbell gave him a verbal beating this
morning over some weather assistance to rural communities and growers.
But like the rest of it, like he said, pretty lackluster.
How important do you think this Monday Morning round will
be in an election year going forward?
Speaker 3 (02:26):
Yeah, it is still vitally important and in the cases
he'd be which was the original broadcaster to introduce these,
Prime Minister interviews been going for something like three decades now,
back to the days of Paul Holmes. There is still
a big audience for all three broadcasters at that time
of the morning. In fact, I added them up and
it's around almost a million New Zealanders tuning into one
of those shows at some stage during the morning. So yep,
(02:49):
still important. Now. We know that a lot of politicians
are obviously talking directly to audiences through social media or
through events, but mainstream media still plays a vital role,
and we see through the audience numbers that those certainly
increase as we get closer to the election. So it
is important that Christopher Luxen and other politicians put their
best step forward. And we know they invest a lot
(03:12):
of time and use a lot of expertise in terms
of preparing for these interviews. And you know, we can
talk about Rachel Smalley, who's just started with the Prime
Minister in the last few weeks to give him some
extra communications help.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Absolutely, We'll get to smally in a second, because I
did I double take this morning when I saw her
in the lobby. We kind of looked at each other like,
oh like, because obviously I work for her at Zebby. Yeah,
but do you reckon we'll ever get to the point
where Luxon just refuses to talk to certain people. I'm
thinking Jasindradurn obviously famously would refuse to speak to Hosking
(03:49):
at the late late tenure of her Prime ministership, the
last one there.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
I certainly hope not. I think you know, we saw it.
John Key didn't do Morning Report, and the same as
you say with Jacinda rar Durn and my cost King.
I don't think we're at that point for Christopher Luxen.
He knows that, you know, judging by the results and
ongoing results and the polls that we constantly see that
it is a tight race as we head into the
election period. So I think it's important that he's in
(04:16):
front of as many eyeballs and there is many ear
drums on these shows as possible, and he needs to
be there otherwise that gap is filled by you know,
other political leaders or opinions from other people. So it's
important that he's in front of the people. So I
don't think we will. We have seen though that other
political leaders still to this day, David Seymour won't do
(04:37):
Morning Report. That's been a long standing policy of him.
And the ACT Party. I think that's a real shame
that he doesn't do that. And I you know, Winston
Peters himself had a few run ins recently with Arinzeed himself,
So you know, I think whereas the likes of Seymour
and Peter's probably have a little more leeway to sort
of stamp their authority, they don't, you know, compared to
(04:58):
the Prime Minister. The Prime Minister quite rightly is sharing
the love around.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Oh well, but for politicians who you know, hold on
to free speech as much as humanly possible when coming
into debates, it's pretty poor form that they wouldn't go
to the likes of ourn Z though.
Speaker 3 (05:16):
Yeah, they will argue that that quite right. You know,
Seymour and Peter's will be some of the biggest free
speech advocates in the political system that we know, and
certainly trumpet that. And so you know Seymour himself, we
saw him. He literally does street corner meetings and is
electoral every Sunday and every weekend, and he and Peters
have a very effect of social media communication strategy. But
(05:38):
I do think they are missing out in terms when
you think that of the pool of voters that they
that they can call upon. You know there, you know,
there are some grounds that they could potentially make with
it an r n Z audience, for example, if.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
We get back to the Prime Minister's kind of style.
I suppose in December twenty twenty four, we actually had
the Prime Minister on the front page and I asked
him about his corporate speak and he kind of acted
like I was the first person ever to point out
to him that his phrase was what I'd say to
you is He seemed quite surprised about that. So I've
(06:14):
heard that you acknowledge that you need to work on
your tendency for corporate speak. There's also been some reaction
to your use of the phrase what I say to
you is, are.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
These things that you're going to be working on in
twenty twenty five.
Speaker 5 (06:26):
Well, I haven't heard about the second one.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
But look, what I say to you is, Yeah, what
I will.
Speaker 5 (06:31):
Say to you is that I am from outside the
political system. You know, I'm not a career politician, and
that's a fantastic thing.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
And that was into twenty twenty four. Do you think
anything's changed since then?
Speaker 3 (06:43):
I think things, judging by the interviews that I heard
and saw this morning. I saw a different luxen in
front of the interviewers this morning, and you know, some
of that could be down to Rachel Smalley's early influence.
The criticism of Christopher Lackson has been yes, some of
those sort of stopped for that He's used in a
lot of I would say, I would agree, corporate speak
(07:04):
and not giving a straight answer, and sometimes you know,
being very rigid about what he answers back with regardless
of the question. And people have observed that that's potentially
come from his time in New Zealand and other corporate roles.
But I do hope he breaks out of that. Clearly
he needs to. He needs to think like the public.
(07:24):
He's not the CEO of a company. The public are
actually his employers, and so he needs to speak and
communicate that way now. One to one, he is a
very personable guy, like most of the political leaders across
the spectrum, very easy to chat to one to one,
but get him in front of a microphone, get him
in front of a camera, and up until now he
(07:45):
has had the tendency to freeze up. And I recall
an interview he had with Mike Cosking just last year
when Mike Costking quite clearly. He was asking him very
simple question, would you have sacked Andrew Bailey the cabinet
minister if he hadn't resigned? It took Mike Costking three
excruciating minutes to get a straight answer out of out
(08:06):
of the frontis because he's stuck to this rigid line
that he just did not need to do. And so
I hope that that will get knocked out of him
by Rachel Smalley and that he does listen to advisors
like her. But are you the sort of person that
would have sacked him?
Speaker 4 (08:25):
I think he has seen under that conclusion.
Speaker 5 (08:27):
I think you've seen me act very decisively on personel issues.
There's something I've done all my life, you know, it's.
Speaker 3 (08:32):
I know that still doesn't answer that.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
I don't want to get bogged down on this. Why
can't you be decisive enough to simply say I would
have sacked.
Speaker 5 (08:40):
In this case or not in this case he resigned.
I know if they hadn't happened, I would have been
been involved with that and would have made a decision
to say they didn't meet my expectations, and that would
which would have led to what it would have led
to him losing the role.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
Anyway, So he would have been he would.
Speaker 5 (08:54):
Have been he would have been devoted and demoted, he
would have the ministry would have been taken away right shacked. Yeah,
well you've made a complete meal of this.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
Now, what is the importance of bringing in Rachel Smally
do you think?
Speaker 3 (09:09):
Well, she's got great experience in terms of not just
broadcasting and TV, which is vital, but she knows each
of those three interviewers that he is up against every
Monday morning, and I'm thinking specifically tov O'Brian, my Costking,
John Campbell. She's worked alongside them and obviously observed them
at close distance, so she will know what each of
(09:30):
those broadcasters brings to the desk every Monday morning. But
more than that, she's got experience as a foreign correspondent,
she's got experience in global affairs and so can offer
not just Luxon, but some of the other national MP's
in Auckland some advice around how to communicate different aspects
of their strategy, whether it's the fuel crisis, cost of living,
or anything else that arises between now in November. So yes, Smallly,
(09:54):
we'll play a vital role, as will the broader media
and communications team within the NAT and I think, you know,
with the National Party and the Prime Minister with his workload,
it is it is, as I say, really important that
he does take on on that advice. I think with
Seymour and Peter's we see them taking a much more
kind of individualist, independent sort of view of the media
(10:18):
that Seymour, for example, that's bringing along his own camera
person to certain interviews to make sure that you know,
he can distribute that raw footage directly to his social
media audience.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
Yeah, he's never actually brought it and brought them in here.
Speaker 6 (10:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
I always try and look and see if they've come
in as like, oh no, not not the front page.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
That's okay, Yeah, he uses it.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
It's interesting to see who he does pac and choose
in terms of the media outlets that he does that with,
and of course he makes a great hay out of
it in terms of the bloody media. And you know,
this is part of the stick really that it's us
against the mainstream media and so he's very effective with
his voter base and almost driving a wedge I guess
(11:00):
between himself and some media outlets, not all, but yeah,
I think we'll increasingly see that, not just from act
but from others as we get closer to November.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
If we talk about Luxon for a second here and
I thought he did better this morning, but there's so
much discourse around his method of communicating, you know, the
corporate speak that's obviously been hanging over him since we'll
at least twenty twenty four. How does this compare to
other prime ministers.
Speaker 3 (11:30):
I think we had, you know, we were in a
lucky I saw some analysis and Barry Soper's got a
book coming out actually about the prime ministers that he's
covered in the course of his own political career. But
I think we were very lucky to have for a
long stint Helen Clark and John Key, you know, across
five or six election cycles. And you know, I remember
(11:50):
the Australians being very jealous were we had such a
stable prime ministership premiership across those years. They were both
highly effective communeictors, different in lots of ways, but they
both were able to talk to media, to edit, they
visited editors regularly, they spoke to journalists on and off
the record on background, and both pretty natural in front
(12:13):
of the camera. And it took a little while for
Helen Clayt. John Key came in and actually it was
quite goofy at times in front of the camera, and
you know, owned his errors and owned his mistakes, and
I get the sense what we were hearing from Key
was actually how he was feeling. There seems to be
a bit of a barrier, or has been a barrier
up with Christopher Luxen in the past, and I think
(12:35):
that might be the sort of barriers that Rachel Smally
and others will try and lower, as I say, as
we get closer to the election. I was actually a
little bit surprised and disappointed that in the TV and
s ED interview this morning that we did not see
for the third week in a row, Tovah O'Brien at
TV and ZED going up against Christopher Luxen.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
Do you think that was intentional?
Speaker 3 (12:56):
Well, I hope not. You know, I think Tove O'Brien
has been hired as the Brick co host for these
interviews and people would have been tuning in, I think
specifically to see that interview because you know, very effective
with her political background and knowing what the last two
weeks have been like, I think we were ready to
see what this latest installment would offer. And so I
(13:17):
hope it's not just this kind of you know, everyone's
sharing around interviews, that kind of thing, and you know,
we're all we're all winners here in the school yard
type gets everyone gets a matter because you know, Chris
Chang is a great broadcaster. He's off, you know, he's
covering the Football World Cup on behalf of TV and
zed later in the year. Everyone has strengths and weaknesses.
And I think to not have Tovah interviewing the Prime
(13:38):
Minister every week as a real miss from TV and Z,
I think she needs to be in front of him
every Monday.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
She got a slight little stab in at the end.
Did she did that?
Speaker 2 (13:47):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (13:47):
I did a cheeky little kind of a side around.
You know, by the time they were wrapping up the interview,
it's time for a bit of fun. And who she
asked who should be on Celebrity Treasure Island of Christopher
Luckson's MPs and sort of offered up Chris, you know,
Christopher Bishop.
Speaker 4 (14:01):
It's like an if you know you no moment, you know,
you know that's right, and so yeah, but coming back
to that point, you know, to the you know, quite
clearly is politically a tuned knows exactly what's going on
in the beehive, still has a lot of contacts there and.
Speaker 3 (14:18):
Would have been a great, great person I think to
interview on this morning.
Speaker 6 (14:28):
Let's look polls, recent taxpays, Union, Curia poll National sitting
below thirty percent, and you did on verse though, is
way up on thirteen point six percent. Now concerned are
you about that?
Speaker 5 (14:38):
A look, as I said, a lot of polls, a
lot of poles say lots of different things, but frankly,
the only one that matters is November seven. And people
don't want me focused on poles. They want me focused
on doing my job, which is getting New Zealand through
this current crisis.
Speaker 6 (14:49):
But your poster, David Farrer has broken down you ZEWE
support in his latest Patreon post, saying fifty two percent
of the party's current supporters voted National last election, so
you're bleeding votes to New Zealand.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
First.
Speaker 5 (15:01):
Yeah, looking again, I'm not getting into any polling conversations.
There's lots of them, and as I said, my job
is to focus on doing what these Zealand people expect
me to be doing. One hundred percent focus on fixing
this crisis.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
Coming to breakfast this morning.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
When he was asked about the abysmal polls, his constant
response was and Chris did, like he did, ask him
the same question about three.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
Or four times to try and get anything out of.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
Him talking about poles, But his main line is, I
don't comment on polls. I suppose I would be the
same if my party was polling.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
Sub thirty as well.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
But how important is it that Luxelon gets his act
together on the media front for his entire party because
we've heard whisperings of a couple of coups apparently.
Speaker 3 (15:45):
Oh yeah, well that's obviously been speculation over the last
few weeks and months, and I do think he needs
to probably break out of his stock responses to it.
You know, I don't comment on the polls, you know,
And in reality, the textpayer poll actually showed a very
good lead for the right wing coalition government across the
(16:05):
opposition parties. And I think that's something that Luxon himself
can focus on. But then come back to big My
biggest focus, and I think he does refer to this,
is to build up that National Party party vote as
strongly as possible, so they have, as you know, obviously
a greater percentage as they can as we get to
the general election and as voters go to the polls.
(16:27):
But you know, all in all, that latest Takespayer Union
pole was actually very good news for the coalition government.
And I think that's the sort of answer that where
Christopher laxlm could potentially make ground and his responses rather
than just the throwing upper it's because of a brick
wall and becoming quite defensive. Yeah, talk about the team,
Talk about the team, but then bring it back to
(16:48):
the National Party and what he's going to do specifically
as a leader.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
In terms of him leading National And I'm not saying
that there is a coup on the way or that
is going to get rolled.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
Or anything like that.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
But if if you were to give him a space
of you know, two three weeks, two months, we're getting
up to two hundred odd days until the election, how
much time, realistically do you have two that he has
to turn around his media image before things get actually serious.
Speaker 3 (17:16):
Yeah, I think, you know, I think almost now it's
getting slightly too late, or they just inder are to
improve that theory wrong, you know, back in twenty and seventeen.
But I think you know, from the commentary that I've
seen and from what I understand, I think the nets
now generally speaking, subject to no more disastrous polls back
below twenty eighth cent tour thereabouts, they're pretty much locked unloaded,
(17:40):
I think now, and I think you know, having seen
the overall result for the coalition parties overall and seeing
how they're tracking in these recent polls, probably gives them
slightly good heart. From a broader perspective, there'll obviously be
some very nervous National party list in peace, well about
eleven of them, yeah, yeah, And so that's cause a
(18:00):
fear bit of pressure within caucus and within the cabinet,
and so that's where Luxem will need to be especially weary.
But if he can, you know, while this morning's round
of interviews were quite dry, quite boring at times, that's
almost what he needs for the next few weeks. He
wants to be talking about the topics that are of
national importance to the voters. Certainly they covered off a
(18:23):
lot of topics in the three interviews this morning, rather
than more podcasts about us talking about his performance or
me writing about his performance in the media column, I
think as much as possible, he wants to be wallpaper,
or at least show his leadership style and skills that
relate to the average.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
Voter talking about him being wallpaper though, don't you think
it's funny that during a national fuel crisis in the
Beehive you've got Nikola Willis and Shane Jones fronting and
he's down in christ Church opening a stadium.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
Do you think that that was intentional?
Speaker 3 (18:57):
I think so he's explained a bit of that and
thinks in that couple of weeks, Chelsea's certainly come to
the forefront a lot more. He's probably had the message
that he needs to be leading the charge a lot
more strongly. And I do wonder if Rachel Smalley, who's
been down in Wellington, she's not just focused on the
Auckland kind of MPs. I wonder again if Rachel Smalley's
(19:17):
played a role in making sure that the Prime Minister's
name and you know, his comments that he's fronting the
you know the press conferences in the commentary around that.
So I think they probably there probably was a misstep,
you know, a month or so ago where they thought,
you know, it should be Nichola willis doing this, but yeah,
here to give him. To be fair, the Prime Minister
(19:39):
has stepped up in the last little while, and I
thought on this morning's Mike Hosking interview he was a
lot stronger on fuel than what we've heard.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
Previously, a bit more authoritative.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
So I can imagine Rachel would be like, no, cancel
that trip to Tuvalu, you.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
Know what I mean. One more thing that I saw
this morning.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
I don't think I've ever clicked quicker on a headline
than the one this morning on stuff. Did you see
a Verity Johnson's opinion piece. The headline was is it
time for Auntie Helen to happen? And she basically argues,
we need someone brave with experience who can go nose
to nose with chaos and not blank.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
So should Helen Clark make her return for labor?
Speaker 3 (20:17):
I think Helen Clark's probably got her attentions focused elsewhere,
but you know, it does come back to that point
that we were very lucky for a long time to
have very strong political leaderships and from both national and labor.
You know, in that period where both Helen Clark and
John Key led us through some you know, huge crises
and then Jasinder A Dern as well. Now Christopher Luxin's
(20:38):
got his own big plate of problems to handle from
a global perspective and how that impacts on New Zealand
and I think possibly what we are seeing in New
Zealand at the moment, if you set aside the leaders
of the political arties, is there that kind of succession planning?
Do we have the MP's and other people coming through
that will one day replace Winster Peters and David Cymore,
(21:02):
Christopher lux and Chris Hipkins in each of the parties.
I think it's it's a real, I think issue for
us to think about, you know, the quality of people
who are entering Parliament and what are they being dissuaded about,
you know, is it you know the roles? You know,
they see what some of these political leaders are subject
to in terms of scrutiny and the roles that they have,
(21:25):
and I think it's a real shame if we do
miss out on some of potentially at the best leaders
who just choose not to enter Parliament for those reasons.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
Thanks for joining us, Shane.
Speaker 3 (21:35):
Thanks Chelsey.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
That's it for this episode of the Front Page. You
can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage
at enzidhrald dot co dot nz. The Front Page is
hosted and produced by me Chelsea Daniels. Cain Dicky is
our studio operator, Richard Martin, our producer and editor, and
our executive producer is Jane Ye. Follow the Front Page
(22:01):
on the iheartapp or wherever you get your podcasts, and
join us next time for another look beyond the headlines.
Kiyota.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a
daily podcast presented by the New Zealand Herald. It's two
hundred and eight days until kiwis hit the polls and
vote for the next government, and despite campaigning not officially starting.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
The Prime Minister's performance has been called into question time
and time again.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Accusations range from luxe and leaning too much into the
corporate speak and acting like a CEO, to dodging questions
and even dodging entire press conferences during a global fuel crisis,
to open a stadium with flubbed media interviews going viral.
Chris pha Luxen's behavior as being put under a microscope,
(00:52):
so much so that there are whisperings of a potential coup.
Can one man's public image impact and entire higher party?
And who's been sent in to help national months ahead
of election day? Today on the Front Page ends At Herald,
editor at large and media insider Shane Curry is with
us to break down Luxon's trials and tribulations.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
And how he might turn them all around.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
First off, Shane, tell me how is the Prime Minister
doing on the media front?
Speaker 1 (01:25):
Do you think well, Chelsea.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
We've just come from a round of Monday Morning live
media interviews he's had for the first time he's been
up against John Campbell, who's started as the Morning Report
host today and in terms of this morning, a pretty
sort of lackluster, slightly dull round of media interviews, which
the Prime Minister probably will be slightly relieved about, having
(01:48):
had a couple of weeks. We're moments during interviews, particularly
with Tovo O'Brien at TV instead have gone viral for
responses or lack of responses to questions that she's asked
and all are pretty stable response this morning from the
Prime Minister, which, as I say, he'll be pleased about.
Speaker 4 (02:05):
Well.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Luxon's morning media round now consists, like he said of Hosking, Tovah,
John Campbell, John Campbell gave him a verbal beating this
morning over some weather assistance to rural communities and growers.
But like the rest of it, like he said, pretty lackluster.
How important do you think this Monday Morning round will
be in an election year going forward?
Speaker 3 (02:26):
Yeah, it is still vitally important and in the cases
he'd be which was the original broadcaster to introduce these,
Prime Minister interviews been going for something like three decades now,
back to the days of Paul Holmes. There is still
a big audience for all three broadcasters at that time
of the morning. In fact, I added them up and
it's around almost a million New Zealanders tuning into one
of those shows at some stage during the morning. So yep,
(02:49):
still important. Now. We know that a lot of politicians
are obviously talking directly to audiences through social media or
through events, but mainstream media still plays a vital role,
and we see through the audience numbers that those certainly
increase as we get closer to the election. So it
is important that Christopher Luxen and other politicians put their
best step forward. And we know they invest a lot
(03:12):
of time and use a lot of expertise in terms
of preparing for these interviews. And you know, we can
talk about Rachel Smalley, who's just started with the Prime
Minister in the last few weeks to give him some
extra communications help.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Absolutely, We'll get to smally in a second, because I
did I double take this morning when I saw her
in the lobby. We kind of looked at each other like,
oh like, because obviously I work for her at Zebby. Yeah,
but do you reckon we'll ever get to the point
where Luxon just refuses to talk to certain people. I'm
thinking Jasindradurn obviously famously would refuse to speak to Hosking
(03:49):
at the late late tenure of her Prime ministership, the
last one there.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
I certainly hope not. I think you know, we saw it.
John Key didn't do Morning Report, and the same as
you say with Jacinda rar Durn and my cost King.
I don't think we're at that point for Christopher Luxen.
He knows that, you know, judging by the results and
ongoing results and the polls that we constantly see that
it is a tight race as we head into the
election period. So I think it's important that he's in
(04:16):
front of as many eyeballs and there is many ear
drums on these shows as possible, and he needs to
be there otherwise that gap is filled by you know,
other political leaders or opinions from other people. So it's
important that he's in front of the people. So I
don't think we will. We have seen though that other
political leaders still to this day, David Seymour won't do
(04:37):
Morning Report. That's been a long standing policy of him.
And the ACT Party. I think that's a real shame
that he doesn't do that. And I you know, Winston
Peters himself had a few run ins recently with Arinzeed himself,
So you know, I think whereas the likes of Seymour
and Peter's probably have a little more leeway to sort
of stamp their authority, they don't, you know, compared to
(04:58):
the Prime Minister. The Prime Minister quite rightly is sharing
the love around.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Oh well, but for politicians who you know, hold on
to free speech as much as humanly possible when coming
into debates, it's pretty poor form that they wouldn't go
to the likes of ourn Z though.
Speaker 3 (05:16):
Yeah, they will argue that that quite right. You know,
Seymour and Peter's will be some of the biggest free
speech advocates in the political system that we know, and
certainly trumpet that. And so you know Seymour himself, we
saw him. He literally does street corner meetings and is
electoral every Sunday and every weekend, and he and Peters
have a very effect of social media communication strategy. But
(05:38):
I do think they are missing out in terms when
you think that of the pool of voters that they
that they can call upon. You know there, you know,
there are some grounds that they could potentially make with
it an r n Z audience, for example, if.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
We get back to the Prime Minister's kind of style.
I suppose in December twenty twenty four, we actually had
the Prime Minister on the front page and I asked
him about his corporate speak and he kind of acted
like I was the first person ever to point out
to him that his phrase was what I'd say to
you is He seemed quite surprised about that. So I've
(06:14):
heard that you acknowledge that you need to work on
your tendency for corporate speak. There's also been some reaction
to your use of the phrase what I say to
you is, are.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
These things that you're going to be working on in
twenty twenty five.
Speaker 5 (06:26):
Well, I haven't heard about the second one.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
But look, what I say to you is, Yeah, what
I will.
Speaker 5 (06:31):
Say to you is that I am from outside the
political system. You know, I'm not a career politician, and
that's a fantastic thing.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
And that was into twenty twenty four. Do you think
anything's changed since then?
Speaker 3 (06:43):
I think things, judging by the interviews that I heard
and saw this morning. I saw a different luxen in
front of the interviewers this morning, and you know, some
of that could be down to Rachel Smalley's early influence.
The criticism of Christopher Lackson has been yes, some of
those sort of stopped for that He's used in a
lot of I would say, I would agree, corporate speak
(07:04):
and not giving a straight answer, and sometimes you know,
being very rigid about what he answers back with regardless
of the question. And people have observed that that's potentially
come from his time in New Zealand and other corporate roles.
But I do hope he breaks out of that. Clearly
he needs to. He needs to think like the public.
(07:24):
He's not the CEO of a company. The public are
actually his employers, and so he needs to speak and
communicate that way now. One to one, he is a
very personable guy, like most of the political leaders across
the spectrum, very easy to chat to one to one,
but get him in front of a microphone, get him
in front of a camera, and up until now he
(07:45):
has had the tendency to freeze up. And I recall
an interview he had with Mike Cosking just last year
when Mike Costking quite clearly. He was asking him very
simple question, would you have sacked Andrew Bailey the cabinet
minister if he hadn't resigned? It took Mike Costking three
excruciating minutes to get a straight answer out of out
(08:06):
of the frontis because he's stuck to this rigid line
that he just did not need to do. And so
I hope that that will get knocked out of him
by Rachel Smalley and that he does listen to advisors
like her. But are you the sort of person that
would have sacked him?
Speaker 4 (08:25):
I think he has seen under that conclusion.
Speaker 5 (08:27):
I think you've seen me act very decisively on personel issues.
There's something I've done all my life, you know, it's.
Speaker 3 (08:32):
I know that still doesn't answer that.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
I don't want to get bogged down on this. Why
can't you be decisive enough to simply say I would
have sacked.
Speaker 5 (08:40):
In this case or not in this case he resigned.
I know if they hadn't happened, I would have been
been involved with that and would have made a decision
to say they didn't meet my expectations, and that would
which would have led to what it would have led
to him losing the role.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
Anyway, So he would have been he would.
Speaker 5 (08:54):
Have been he would have been devoted and demoted, he
would have the ministry would have been taken away right shacked. Yeah,
well you've made a complete meal of this.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
Now, what is the importance of bringing in Rachel Smally
do you think?
Speaker 3 (09:09):
Well, she's got great experience in terms of not just
broadcasting and TV, which is vital, but she knows each
of those three interviewers that he is up against every
Monday morning, and I'm thinking specifically tov O'Brian, my Costking,
John Campbell. She's worked alongside them and obviously observed them
at close distance, so she will know what each of
(09:30):
those broadcasters brings to the desk every Monday morning. But
more than that, she's got experience as a foreign correspondent,
she's got experience in global affairs and so can offer
not just Luxon, but some of the other national MP's
in Auckland some advice around how to communicate different aspects
of their strategy, whether it's the fuel crisis, cost of living,
or anything else that arises between now in November. So yes, Smallly,
(09:54):
we'll play a vital role, as will the broader media
and communications team within the NAT and I think, you know,
with the National Party and the Prime Minister with his workload,
it is it is, as I say, really important that
he does take on on that advice. I think with
Seymour and Peter's we see them taking a much more
kind of individualist, independent sort of view of the media
(10:18):
that Seymour, for example, that's bringing along his own camera
person to certain interviews to make sure that you know,
he can distribute that raw footage directly to his social
media audience.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
Yeah, he's never actually brought it and brought them in here.
Speaker 6 (10:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
I always try and look and see if they've come
in as like, oh no, not not the front page.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
That's okay, Yeah, he uses it.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
It's interesting to see who he does pac and choose
in terms of the media outlets that he does that with,
and of course he makes a great hay out of
it in terms of the bloody media. And you know,
this is part of the stick really that it's us
against the mainstream media and so he's very effective with
his voter base and almost driving a wedge I guess
(11:00):
between himself and some media outlets, not all, but yeah,
I think we'll increasingly see that, not just from act
but from others as we get closer to November.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
If we talk about Luxon for a second here and
I thought he did better this morning, but there's so
much discourse around his method of communicating, you know, the
corporate speak that's obviously been hanging over him since we'll
at least twenty twenty four. How does this compare to
other prime ministers.
Speaker 3 (11:30):
I think we had, you know, we were in a
lucky I saw some analysis and Barry Soper's got a
book coming out actually about the prime ministers that he's
covered in the course of his own political career. But
I think we were very lucky to have for a
long stint Helen Clark and John Key, you know, across
five or six election cycles. And you know, I remember
(11:50):
the Australians being very jealous were we had such a
stable prime ministership premiership across those years. They were both
highly effective communeictors, different in lots of ways, but they
both were able to talk to media, to edit, they
visited editors regularly, they spoke to journalists on and off
the record on background, and both pretty natural in front
(12:13):
of the camera. And it took a little while for
Helen Clayt. John Key came in and actually it was
quite goofy at times in front of the camera, and
you know, owned his errors and owned his mistakes, and
I get the sense what we were hearing from Key
was actually how he was feeling. There seems to be
a bit of a barrier, or has been a barrier
up with Christopher Luxen in the past, and I think
(12:35):
that might be the sort of barriers that Rachel Smally
and others will try and lower, as I say, as
we get closer to the election. I was actually a
little bit surprised and disappointed that in the TV and
s ED interview this morning that we did not see
for the third week in a row, Tovah O'Brien at
TV and ZED going up against Christopher Luxen.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
Do you think that was intentional?
Speaker 3 (12:56):
Well, I hope not. You know, I think Tove O'Brien
has been hired as the Brick co host for these
interviews and people would have been tuning in, I think
specifically to see that interview because you know, very effective
with her political background and knowing what the last two
weeks have been like, I think we were ready to
see what this latest installment would offer. And so I
(13:17):
hope it's not just this kind of you know, everyone's
sharing around interviews, that kind of thing, and you know,
we're all we're all winners here in the school yard
type gets everyone gets a matter because you know, Chris
Chang is a great broadcaster. He's off, you know, he's
covering the Football World Cup on behalf of TV and
zed later in the year. Everyone has strengths and weaknesses.
And I think to not have Tovah interviewing the Prime
(13:38):
Minister every week as a real miss from TV and Z,
I think she needs to be in front of him
every Monday.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
She got a slight little stab in at the end.
Did she did that?
Speaker 2 (13:47):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (13:47):
I did a cheeky little kind of a side around.
You know, by the time they were wrapping up the interview,
it's time for a bit of fun. And who she
asked who should be on Celebrity Treasure Island of Christopher
Luckson's MPs and sort of offered up Chris, you know,
Christopher Bishop.
Speaker 4 (14:01):
It's like an if you know you no moment, you know,
you know that's right, and so yeah, but coming back
to that point, you know, to the you know, quite
clearly is politically a tuned knows exactly what's going on
in the beehive, still has a lot of contacts there and.
Speaker 3 (14:18):
Would have been a great, great person I think to
interview on this morning.
Speaker 6 (14:28):
Let's look polls, recent taxpays, Union, Curia poll National sitting
below thirty percent, and you did on verse though, is
way up on thirteen point six percent. Now concerned are
you about that?
Speaker 5 (14:38):
A look, as I said, a lot of polls, a
lot of poles say lots of different things, but frankly,
the only one that matters is November seven. And people
don't want me focused on poles. They want me focused
on doing my job, which is getting New Zealand through
this current crisis.
Speaker 6 (14:49):
But your poster, David Farrer has broken down you ZEWE
support in his latest Patreon post, saying fifty two percent
of the party's current supporters voted National last election, so
you're bleeding votes to New Zealand.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
First.
Speaker 5 (15:01):
Yeah, looking again, I'm not getting into any polling conversations.
There's lots of them, and as I said, my job
is to focus on doing what these Zealand people expect
me to be doing. One hundred percent focus on fixing
this crisis.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
Coming to breakfast this morning.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
When he was asked about the abysmal polls, his constant
response was and Chris did, like he did, ask him
the same question about three.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
Or four times to try and get anything out of.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
Him talking about poles, But his main line is, I
don't comment on polls. I suppose I would be the
same if my party was polling.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
Sub thirty as well.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
But how important is it that Luxelon gets his act
together on the media front for his entire party because
we've heard whisperings of a couple of coups apparently.
Speaker 3 (15:45):
Oh yeah, well that's obviously been speculation over the last
few weeks and months, and I do think he needs
to probably break out of his stock responses to it.
You know, I don't comment on the polls, you know,
And in reality, the textpayer poll actually showed a very
good lead for the right wing coalition government across the
(16:05):
opposition parties. And I think that's something that Luxon himself
can focus on. But then come back to big My
biggest focus, and I think he does refer to this,
is to build up that National Party party vote as
strongly as possible, so they have, as you know, obviously
a greater percentage as they can as we get to
the general election and as voters go to the polls.
(16:27):
But you know, all in all, that latest Takespayer Union
pole was actually very good news for the coalition government.
And I think that's the sort of answer that where
Christopher laxlm could potentially make ground and his responses rather
than just the throwing upper it's because of a brick
wall and becoming quite defensive. Yeah, talk about the team,
Talk about the team, but then bring it back to
(16:48):
the National Party and what he's going to do specifically
as a leader.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
In terms of him leading National And I'm not saying
that there is a coup on the way or that
is going to get rolled.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
Or anything like that.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
But if if you were to give him a space
of you know, two three weeks, two months, we're getting
up to two hundred odd days until the election, how
much time, realistically do you have two that he has
to turn around his media image before things get actually serious.
Speaker 3 (17:16):
Yeah, I think, you know, I think almost now it's
getting slightly too late, or they just inder are to
improve that theory wrong, you know, back in twenty and seventeen.
But I think you know, from the commentary that I've
seen and from what I understand, I think the nets
now generally speaking, subject to no more disastrous polls back
below twenty eighth cent tour thereabouts, they're pretty much locked unloaded,
(17:40):
I think now, and I think you know, having seen
the overall result for the coalition parties overall and seeing
how they're tracking in these recent polls, probably gives them
slightly good heart. From a broader perspective, there'll obviously be
some very nervous National party list in peace, well about
eleven of them, yeah, yeah, And so that's cause a
(18:00):
fear bit of pressure within caucus and within the cabinet,
and so that's where Luxem will need to be especially weary.
But if he can, you know, while this morning's round
of interviews were quite dry, quite boring at times, that's
almost what he needs for the next few weeks. He
wants to be talking about the topics that are of
national importance to the voters. Certainly they covered off a
(18:23):
lot of topics in the three interviews this morning, rather
than more podcasts about us talking about his performance or
me writing about his performance in the media column, I
think as much as possible, he wants to be wallpaper,
or at least show his leadership style and skills that
relate to the average.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
Voter talking about him being wallpaper though, don't you think
it's funny that during a national fuel crisis in the
Beehive you've got Nikola Willis and Shane Jones fronting and
he's down in christ Church opening a stadium.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
Do you think that that was intentional?
Speaker 3 (18:57):
I think so he's explained a bit of that and
thinks in that couple of weeks, Chelsea's certainly come to
the forefront a lot more. He's probably had the message
that he needs to be leading the charge a lot
more strongly. And I do wonder if Rachel Smalley, who's
been down in Wellington, she's not just focused on the
Auckland kind of MPs. I wonder again if Rachel Smalley's
(19:17):
played a role in making sure that the Prime Minister's
name and you know, his comments that he's fronting the
you know the press conferences in the commentary around that.
So I think they probably there probably was a misstep,
you know, a month or so ago where they thought,
you know, it should be Nichola willis doing this, but yeah,
here to give him. To be fair, the Prime Minister
(19:39):
has stepped up in the last little while, and I
thought on this morning's Mike Hosking interview he was a
lot stronger on fuel than what we've heard.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
Previously, a bit more authoritative.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
So I can imagine Rachel would be like, no, cancel
that trip to Tuvalu, you.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
Know what I mean. One more thing that I saw
this morning.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
I don't think I've ever clicked quicker on a headline
than the one this morning on stuff. Did you see
a Verity Johnson's opinion piece. The headline was is it
time for Auntie Helen to happen? And she basically argues,
we need someone brave with experience who can go nose
to nose with chaos and not blank.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
So should Helen Clark make her return for labor?
Speaker 3 (20:17):
I think Helen Clark's probably got her attentions focused elsewhere,
but you know, it does come back to that point
that we were very lucky for a long time to
have very strong political leaderships and from both national and labor.
You know, in that period where both Helen Clark and
John Key led us through some you know, huge crises
and then Jasinder A Dern as well. Now Christopher Luxin's
(20:38):
got his own big plate of problems to handle from
a global perspective and how that impacts on New Zealand
and I think possibly what we are seeing in New
Zealand at the moment, if you set aside the leaders
of the political arties, is there that kind of succession planning?
Do we have the MP's and other people coming through
that will one day replace Winster Peters and David Cymore,
(21:02):
Christopher lux and Chris Hipkins in each of the parties.
I think it's it's a real, I think issue for
us to think about, you know, the quality of people
who are entering Parliament and what are they being dissuaded about,
you know, is it you know the roles? You know,
they see what some of these political leaders are subject
to in terms of scrutiny and the roles that they have,
(21:25):
and I think it's a real shame if we do
miss out on some of potentially at the best leaders
who just choose not to enter Parliament for those reasons.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
Thanks for joining us, Shane.
Speaker 3 (21:35):
Thanks Chelsey.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
That's it for this episode of the Front Page. You
can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage
at enzidhrald dot co dot nz. The Front Page is
hosted and produced by me Chelsea Daniels. Cain Dicky is
our studio operator, Richard Martin, our producer and editor, and
our executive producer is Jane Ye. Follow the Front Page
(22:01):
on the iheartapp or wherever you get your podcasts, and
join us next time for another look beyond the headlines.
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