February 25, 2026 • 17 mins
Is cash really still King?
For years, more stores are no longer accepting cash as payment and it’s easy to see why, with 94% of transactions in 2024 being digital. They’re also not obligated to either.
In 2023, the Reserve Bank of New Zealand found cash usage for everyday purchases had decreased from 95.8% in 2019 -- to 57.2% that year.
Apparently just 8% of New Zealanders were regular or daily cash users.
But today, the Reserve Bank’s opened public consultation on a proposal that would force banks to set up hundreds, if not thousands, of additional ATMs and branches to make sure people have access to cash.
Today on The Front Page, NZ Herald Wellington business editor Jenée Tibshraeny joins us to discuss why cash might be here to stay.
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You can read more about this and other stories in the New Zealand Herald, online at nzherald.co.nz, or tune in to news bulletins across the NZME network.
Host: Chelsea Daniels
Editor/Producer: Richard Martin
Producer: Jane Yee
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Kilda.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a
daily podcast presented by the New Zealand Herald.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Is cash really still king? For years?
Speaker 2 (00:20):
More stores are no longer excepting cash's payment, and it's
easy to see why, right with ninety four percent of
transactions in twenty twenty four being digital.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
They're also not obliged to either.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
In twenty twenty three, the Reserve Bank of New Zealand
found cash usage for every day purchases had decreased from
ninety five point eight percent in twenty nineteen to fifty
seven point two percent that year. Apparently, just eight percent
of New Zealanders were regular or daily cash users. But
despite all that, today the Reserve Banks opened public consultation
(00:56):
on a proposal that would force banks to set up
one hundreds, if not thousands, of additional ATMs and branches
to make sure people have access to cash.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
Today.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
On the front page ends at Herald, Wellington Business editor
Jene Tebshraaney joins us to discuss why cash might be
here to stay. First off, Jane, give us an outline
on this public consultation paper.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
What's it telling or asking people to do?
Speaker 3 (01:26):
Right?
Speaker 4 (01:27):
Chelsea the Reserve bankers worry that over the past decade,
about forty percent of bank branches have closed. It's concerned
that people don't have easy enough access to services that
help them trade in cash. So the bank has done
some spatial mapping and it wants to make sure that
most people in urban areas can walk to cash services,
(01:52):
so that could be an ATM or bank branch, and
most people in rural areas can drive to these services.
So the bank basically wants to set a standard in
place that ensures most of the vast majority of people
have much easier access to cash services.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
And presumably they've done some kind of survey or something
asking people how much they care about cash they.
Speaker 4 (02:16):
Have so, according to the bank, people do care a
lot about cash. Only about eight percent of those surveyed
rely on cash.
Speaker 5 (02:26):
Is this sole means of payment.
Speaker 4 (02:27):
But the bank notes that about eight percent of adults
use cash sometimes. Also fifty six percent store cash. So
you know, I had a call with the head of
the project from the Reserve Bank earlier today and he said,
looking ahead, he still believes there will always be a
need for cash. He doesn't see a demise of cash.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
I would be interested though whether what sometimes means right
people getting cash out to do their grocery shops or
are they putting a couple of bucks in the vending
machine for a can of coke, like I wonder what
sometimes is?
Speaker 1 (03:04):
I guess in New Zealand there are.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
No rules at the moment to protect the use of cash.
If a business doesn't want to accept it, they're not
actually obligated to accept it. But the Reserve Bank reckons
cash still matters.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
In this respect. What are some of the reasons it gives?
Speaker 5 (03:21):
That's right?
Speaker 4 (03:22):
So I mean for small businesses, you know a lot
of them trade in cash. And you know, if you're
running a small business in a rural part of New
Zealand and there's no bank branch near you, it's pretty
difficult for you to get the money that you get
from your customers to put in the bank. So you
might need to shut your shop earlier to travel far
to go to the bank to deposit your money. So
(03:43):
the Reserve Bank is saying, you know, more readily accessible
cash services would help productivity of small businesses. Also points
to sort of social cultural things, you know, sports clubs
and things might use cash. I was talking to the
colleague earlier who are as an avid golf player, and
he said, well, you need cash for raffles.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
Fair enough, you do need cash for raffles.
Speaker 5 (04:08):
Yeah, yeah, as you do.
Speaker 4 (04:10):
And you know that the bank alls, they said, for
privacy reasons, some people might not you know, it's not
necessarily dodgy, but they might not might you know, might
not want their transactions tracked. So that's the case the
bank makes. You know, you talk to younger people just
chatting to colleagues and other colleagues in the office were
not part of the golf club, and they think this
is ridiculous. You know, younger people don't use cash at all.
(04:34):
A lot of them you talk to.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
Well, then that's what I mean.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
I know that cash using cash went down over COVID,
say because we weren't going out nearly as much and
b we were washing our fruit and vegetables when we
got home from countdown, so there was no point in,
you know.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
Using cash.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
But I do wonder how many people use cash still.
Speaker 4 (04:58):
Yeah, that's that's a good question, and I I think
the bank's consultation, I guess it will hope to get
some some.
Speaker 5 (05:04):
Good feedback on that.
Speaker 4 (05:06):
So the question I've been asking the people from the
Reserve Bank earlier today, was is the proposed response that
they have to the problem of equity of some people
not having enough access to cash services? Is their response proportionate?
It is pretty dramatic. So the Reserve Bank saying that
(05:27):
if banks met the standards that they want to put
in place, they could do it in a couple of ways.
Either they could all pull their resources and create banking
hubs that customers from any bank could go to to
withdraw cash, deposit cash, or swap it. Currently there are
five of these hubs throughout the country. The Reserve Banks
saying that to meet the standard, if banks pulled together,
(05:50):
they would need to create one thousand, two hundred and
eighty eight of these hubs, so the next five exactly exactly. Now,
that would be a pretty big undertaking. Otherwise, the Reserve
Bank acknowledge is actually, you know, banks might not want
to pull together. They might want to have you know,
an A and Z ATM or an ASB one or
so on. So if they did their own thing, Currently
(06:14):
there are just over two thousand bank owned sites like
branches and eighty ms.
Speaker 5 (06:19):
Just over two thousand.
Speaker 4 (06:22):
Banks would need to add another three thousand to the
mix two thousand. Then on top of that, so two routes.
Either you pull together or the banks do their own thing.
Either way, we're talking substantive investment by banks.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
Well how much are we talking here?
Speaker 4 (06:39):
Well, the Reserve Bank reckons the cost is not that big.
It's it reckons. It will cost banks about one hundred
million dollars per year.
Speaker 5 (06:47):
Now it makes the point.
Speaker 4 (06:49):
You know, for banks that's not much money. It's about
one percent of their combined annual profits. Now you can
only imagine what the banks might think of this, probably
not going to appreciate the Reserve Bank forcing them to
spend one hundred million dollars on this. Now, the Reserve Bank,
you know it acknowledges that banks might pass that cost
(07:10):
onto customers. And if it does, the Reserve Bank reckons
the cost wouldn't be that big. Like let's say, you know,
you you have a home loan that might add about
one point eight basis points to the interest rate that
you that you pay. So if you pay four point
(07:30):
five percent, you might end up paying four point five
one eight percent. That is, assuming the bank passes the
entire cost onto you.
Speaker 5 (07:39):
Now, well they won't.
Speaker 4 (07:40):
They'm not sure that you know, the competition might prevent
them from doing so, but you know, having more readily
available cash services will come at.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
A cost well, and also where are you going to
put them all? As well as my.
Speaker 3 (07:54):
Question details details details, the bank has done some geospatial mapping,
you know, in order for it to get to these numbers.
Speaker 5 (08:06):
It's looked at you know, having.
Speaker 4 (08:09):
As I said earlier, in urban areas walking distance, in
rural areas driving distance. That put some maths around you
know what that means. So they have looked into that.
You know, no doubt this would be a massive logistic
logistical exercise for the banks.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
And I suppose there's the question as well about is
cash even that productive these days?
Speaker 4 (08:33):
Well, that is a fair point, you know, is it
productive for a business to receive cash and then have
to trace off to the bank to deposit it. You
could argue that actually moving to a more cashless society
with some businesses at least enhances productivity, streamlines everything makes
it easier for them to you know, track their sales
(08:54):
and all that.
Speaker 5 (08:55):
Type of thing.
Speaker 4 (08:57):
Another element that banks might raise is that there's been
this real push against money laundering and you know, cash
it can be beneficial, you can make transactions privately, but arguably,
you know, it's harder to keep track of money laundering
or you know, the drug trade and all that type
(09:17):
of thing.
Speaker 5 (09:17):
Now again, we talk to the Reserve Bank.
Speaker 4 (09:19):
About this and they said, well, you know, people use
all sorts of methods to do dodgy things like cryptocurrency
or other forms as well, So the reserve banks, if
you don't want to throw the baby out with the
bath water in this regard.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
I suppose it's you know, when those small business owners
are taking all of that cash to a bank as well,
if you didn't have to do that, then you wouldn't
have to risk walking down the street with ten thousand
dollars in your pocket either.
Speaker 5 (09:48):
Well, yeah, that's that's no doubt.
Speaker 4 (09:50):
Another point, and you know, different business owners probably say
they've been doing this type of thing for years. But
there is that question as well around the infrastructure that
I was around establishing hubs to transact more cash, but
it from the user's side or from the you know,
the site of the banks, you know, maintaining servicen security,
(10:12):
all that that goes with it. Do you ever carry
cash nowadays?
Speaker 2 (10:22):
Oh?
Speaker 5 (10:22):
Honestly not too much, not too much, only card and
I hardly Hey, yes, I actually have some in my back.
Almost forget how to use a cash Yes, they do
use can. When was the last time you use cash?
Do you think roughly to buy something?
Speaker 2 (10:36):
I reckon maybe six months ago?
Speaker 5 (10:38):
Wait, probably three or four months ago at least, if
not longer.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
Keep going out with my friend Rosie when she had
paid for something online and then I gave for the cash.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
This morning, actually I bought a coffee.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
Well, we know that there's a massive generational divide around
carrying cash already. Right now, I'm assumed our golfing mate
is a bit older than the two of us in
terms of, you know, getting excited about carrying cash around.
And a year or two ago, actually there was all
this talk about girl math, right, and there was this
(11:14):
suggestion that when you pay something for something in cash,
then it's free because cash doesn't matter. There is that
kind of sense that cash is lesser than I suppose
amongst younger generations.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
Would you agree?
Speaker 5 (11:30):
I mean, I haven't seen research on it.
Speaker 4 (11:34):
I know the Reserve Bank has done a lot, But
if I did a vibe check on the street, that's
why I after, Yeah, I think I think there would
be a generational difference. Now, where that difference might go
away is if there's a natural disaster and we can't
(11:54):
use electronic waves of transmission, or if systems go down.
Speaker 5 (12:00):
Then cash should be handy. You know, that is a factor.
Speaker 4 (12:04):
The Reserve Bank, though, is of the view quite firmly
that there will always be a place for cash. Interestingly,
there were in recent years there was the bank did
quite a bit of work on whether it should issue
a digital currency. So that's taking things in a complete
different direction. And Ian Wilford, the person who's heading up
this physical cash work at the bank, he was in
(12:27):
charge of the digital cash work, and today he told
me that they're actually pushing pause on.
Speaker 5 (12:32):
That digital cash work. They're going to look.
Speaker 4 (12:35):
At addressing some of the issues in other ways, like
looking at modernizing the payment network. So it is interesting
that they do seem to be changing their focus and
going back to good old physical cash.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
Yeah. I mean going from digital cash and doing a
complete one eighty to physical cash is a pretty big move.
And like you said, it's pretty drastic suggesting all of
these ATMs and and branches, et cetera, et cetera. I suppose.
I don't know if you know this. The Australian government
actually announced a couple of years ago that it would
actually mandate businesses.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
Is that something that the New Zealand government has been
looking into.
Speaker 4 (13:16):
Yeah, that is an interesting point in Australia, some businesses
are made to accept cash.
Speaker 5 (13:23):
Again, that would no doubt be an equity issue.
Speaker 4 (13:26):
We asked the Reserve Bank about that today and they
said that that's something they will consider.
Speaker 5 (13:31):
So consider requiring businesses to accept cash. I know, like
if you walk around.
Speaker 4 (13:36):
Cities, a lot of businesses say they don't accept cash
at all. It'll be interesting to see what the politicians'
responses to that is as well.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
I suppose I'll be looking pretty closely at how things
are going in Australia. I understand that it only came
in January.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
First this year. So basically large.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
Retailers have been required to accept cash for a cent
items like groceries and fuel. It applies to in person
transactions obviously of five hundred dollars or less between the
hours of seven and nine.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
They'll be looking at that every you know, after three
years or so.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
But small businesses with an annual turnover under ten million
dollars are generally exempt, so I suppose we'll just keep
an eye on what the ossies are doing over there.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
I saw the reserve bank as one of the.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
Positives of keeping cash around, and not only when you
spoke about natural disasters of course, and when things go
awry and when you can't use your card, et cetera.
So obviously always good to have cash around. But in
terms of another thing, and I quite like this one, is,
you know, teaching kids financial literacy is perhaps a little
(14:47):
bit easier with cash as well, and I kind of
liked that they had thought about that, and also the
cultural identity part of it as well.
Speaker 4 (14:57):
Yeah, look, I know, and you know, the cool stuff
that might go back to my old mates, golfing, raffles
and so on, you know, community groups using cash.
Speaker 5 (15:09):
Zero bank recognized.
Speaker 4 (15:10):
You know, cash is often used, as you know, at
present or for gifts, and as you say, Chelsea, for
teaching kids about money. I remember as a child being
given two dollars and sent to the dairy with my
sister and we could pick what we wanted two dollars
and you know, painstakingly get a pack of lollies and
(15:30):
you know, and that taught.
Speaker 5 (15:32):
Us a valuable lesson.
Speaker 4 (15:33):
So the bank is looking at things pretty holistically. It
talks about well being, impacts of cash. I think these
are probably undisputed. I think the question though, is whether
the response it's proposing is proportionate.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
Yeah, exactly, So people actually have a chance to have
their say around this public consultation paper.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
Hey, what happens from here?
Speaker 5 (15:59):
Yeah, that's right, right.
Speaker 4 (16:00):
So there are a few documents on the Reserve banks website.
They're actually pretty easy to read. Judging from the our
Herald comments on our website, it seems like a topic
that everyone has an opinion on. The Reserve Bank is
welcoming public submissions. These clothes in on April ten, so
(16:20):
from that point it all take things further. And then separately,
the bank said that in April or around then it'll
issue another consultation on this Isshow I talked about before
about the modernization of the payments network, so that's going
to be its focus now instead of that digital currency.
Speaker 5 (16:42):
So there's a bit on the go definitely.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
Yeah, Well, we'll have to get you back on and
go through that another time.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
Thank you so much for joining us today.
Speaker 5 (16:51):
Thanks Chelsea, good to be here.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
That's it for this episode of the Front Page.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
You can read more about today stories and extensive news
coverage at enziherld dot co dot nz. The Front Page
is hosted and produced by me Chelsea daniels Kine. Dickie
is our studio operator, Richard Martin, our producer and editor,
and our executive producer is Jane Ye. Follow the Front
Page on the iheartapp or wherever you get your podcasts,
(17:21):
and join us next time for another look beyond the headlines.
Kilda.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a
daily podcast presented by the New Zealand Herald.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Is cash really still king? For years?
Speaker 2 (00:20):
More stores are no longer excepting cash's payment, and it's
easy to see why, right with ninety four percent of
transactions in twenty twenty four being digital.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
They're also not obliged to either.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
In twenty twenty three, the Reserve Bank of New Zealand
found cash usage for every day purchases had decreased from
ninety five point eight percent in twenty nineteen to fifty
seven point two percent that year. Apparently, just eight percent
of New Zealanders were regular or daily cash users. But
despite all that, today the Reserve Banks opened public consultation
(00:56):
on a proposal that would force banks to set up
one hundreds, if not thousands, of additional ATMs and branches
to make sure people have access to cash.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
Today.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
On the front page ends at Herald, Wellington Business editor
Jene Tebshraaney joins us to discuss why cash might be
here to stay. First off, Jane, give us an outline
on this public consultation paper.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
What's it telling or asking people to do?
Speaker 3 (01:26):
Right?
Speaker 4 (01:27):
Chelsea the Reserve bankers worry that over the past decade,
about forty percent of bank branches have closed. It's concerned
that people don't have easy enough access to services that
help them trade in cash. So the bank has done
some spatial mapping and it wants to make sure that
most people in urban areas can walk to cash services,
(01:52):
so that could be an ATM or bank branch, and
most people in rural areas can drive to these services.
So the bank basically wants to set a standard in
place that ensures most of the vast majority of people
have much easier access to cash services.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
And presumably they've done some kind of survey or something
asking people how much they care about cash they.
Speaker 4 (02:16):
Have so, according to the bank, people do care a
lot about cash. Only about eight percent of those surveyed
rely on cash.
Speaker 5 (02:26):
Is this sole means of payment.
Speaker 4 (02:27):
But the bank notes that about eight percent of adults
use cash sometimes. Also fifty six percent store cash. So
you know, I had a call with the head of
the project from the Reserve Bank earlier today and he said,
looking ahead, he still believes there will always be a
need for cash. He doesn't see a demise of cash.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
I would be interested though whether what sometimes means right
people getting cash out to do their grocery shops or
are they putting a couple of bucks in the vending
machine for a can of coke, like I wonder what
sometimes is?
Speaker 1 (03:04):
I guess in New Zealand there are.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
No rules at the moment to protect the use of cash.
If a business doesn't want to accept it, they're not
actually obligated to accept it. But the Reserve Bank reckons
cash still matters.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
In this respect. What are some of the reasons it gives?
Speaker 5 (03:21):
That's right?
Speaker 4 (03:22):
So I mean for small businesses, you know a lot
of them trade in cash. And you know, if you're
running a small business in a rural part of New
Zealand and there's no bank branch near you, it's pretty
difficult for you to get the money that you get
from your customers to put in the bank. So you
might need to shut your shop earlier to travel far
to go to the bank to deposit your money. So
(03:43):
the Reserve Bank is saying, you know, more readily accessible
cash services would help productivity of small businesses. Also points
to sort of social cultural things, you know, sports clubs
and things might use cash. I was talking to the
colleague earlier who are as an avid golf player, and
he said, well, you need cash for raffles.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
Fair enough, you do need cash for raffles.
Speaker 5 (04:08):
Yeah, yeah, as you do.
Speaker 4 (04:10):
And you know that the bank alls, they said, for
privacy reasons, some people might not you know, it's not
necessarily dodgy, but they might not might you know, might
not want their transactions tracked. So that's the case the
bank makes. You know, you talk to younger people just
chatting to colleagues and other colleagues in the office were
not part of the golf club, and they think this
is ridiculous. You know, younger people don't use cash at all.
(04:34):
A lot of them you talk to.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
Well, then that's what I mean.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
I know that cash using cash went down over COVID,
say because we weren't going out nearly as much and
b we were washing our fruit and vegetables when we
got home from countdown, so there was no point in,
you know.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
Using cash.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
But I do wonder how many people use cash still.
Speaker 4 (04:58):
Yeah, that's that's a good question, and I I think
the bank's consultation, I guess it will hope to get
some some.
Speaker 5 (05:04):
Good feedback on that.
Speaker 4 (05:06):
So the question I've been asking the people from the
Reserve Bank earlier today, was is the proposed response that
they have to the problem of equity of some people
not having enough access to cash services? Is their response proportionate?
It is pretty dramatic. So the Reserve Bank saying that
(05:27):
if banks met the standards that they want to put
in place, they could do it in a couple of ways.
Either they could all pull their resources and create banking
hubs that customers from any bank could go to to
withdraw cash, deposit cash, or swap it. Currently there are
five of these hubs throughout the country. The Reserve Banks
saying that to meet the standard, if banks pulled together,
(05:50):
they would need to create one thousand, two hundred and
eighty eight of these hubs, so the next five exactly exactly. Now,
that would be a pretty big undertaking. Otherwise, the Reserve
Bank acknowledge is actually, you know, banks might not want
to pull together. They might want to have you know,
an A and Z ATM or an ASB one or
so on. So if they did their own thing, Currently
(06:14):
there are just over two thousand bank owned sites like
branches and eighty ms.
Speaker 5 (06:19):
Just over two thousand.
Speaker 4 (06:22):
Banks would need to add another three thousand to the
mix two thousand. Then on top of that, so two routes.
Either you pull together or the banks do their own thing.
Either way, we're talking substantive investment by banks.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
Well how much are we talking here?
Speaker 4 (06:39):
Well, the Reserve Bank reckons the cost is not that big.
It's it reckons. It will cost banks about one hundred
million dollars per year.
Speaker 5 (06:47):
Now it makes the point.
Speaker 4 (06:49):
You know, for banks that's not much money. It's about
one percent of their combined annual profits. Now you can
only imagine what the banks might think of this, probably
not going to appreciate the Reserve Bank forcing them to
spend one hundred million dollars on this. Now, the Reserve Bank,
you know it acknowledges that banks might pass that cost
(07:10):
onto customers. And if it does, the Reserve Bank reckons
the cost wouldn't be that big. Like let's say, you know,
you you have a home loan that might add about
one point eight basis points to the interest rate that
you that you pay. So if you pay four point
(07:30):
five percent, you might end up paying four point five
one eight percent. That is, assuming the bank passes the
entire cost onto you.
Speaker 5 (07:39):
Now, well they won't.
Speaker 4 (07:40):
They'm not sure that you know, the competition might prevent
them from doing so, but you know, having more readily
available cash services will come at.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
A cost well, and also where are you going to
put them all? As well as my.
Speaker 3 (07:54):
Question details details details, the bank has done some geospatial mapping,
you know, in order for it to get to these numbers.
Speaker 5 (08:06):
It's looked at you know, having.
Speaker 4 (08:09):
As I said earlier, in urban areas walking distance, in
rural areas driving distance. That put some maths around you
know what that means. So they have looked into that.
You know, no doubt this would be a massive logistic
logistical exercise for the banks.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
And I suppose there's the question as well about is
cash even that productive these days?
Speaker 4 (08:33):
Well, that is a fair point, you know, is it
productive for a business to receive cash and then have
to trace off to the bank to deposit it. You
could argue that actually moving to a more cashless society
with some businesses at least enhances productivity, streamlines everything makes
it easier for them to you know, track their sales
(08:54):
and all that.
Speaker 5 (08:55):
Type of thing.
Speaker 4 (08:57):
Another element that banks might raise is that there's been
this real push against money laundering and you know, cash
it can be beneficial, you can make transactions privately, but arguably,
you know, it's harder to keep track of money laundering
or you know, the drug trade and all that type
(09:17):
of thing.
Speaker 5 (09:17):
Now again, we talk to the Reserve Bank.
Speaker 4 (09:19):
About this and they said, well, you know, people use
all sorts of methods to do dodgy things like cryptocurrency
or other forms as well, So the reserve banks, if
you don't want to throw the baby out with the
bath water in this regard.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
I suppose it's you know, when those small business owners
are taking all of that cash to a bank as well,
if you didn't have to do that, then you wouldn't
have to risk walking down the street with ten thousand
dollars in your pocket either.
Speaker 5 (09:48):
Well, yeah, that's that's no doubt.
Speaker 4 (09:50):
Another point, and you know, different business owners probably say
they've been doing this type of thing for years. But
there is that question as well around the infrastructure that
I was around establishing hubs to transact more cash, but
it from the user's side or from the you know,
the site of the banks, you know, maintaining servicen security,
(10:12):
all that that goes with it. Do you ever carry
cash nowadays?
Speaker 2 (10:22):
Oh?
Speaker 5 (10:22):
Honestly not too much, not too much, only card and
I hardly Hey, yes, I actually have some in my back.
Almost forget how to use a cash Yes, they do
use can. When was the last time you use cash?
Do you think roughly to buy something?
Speaker 2 (10:36):
I reckon maybe six months ago?
Speaker 5 (10:38):
Wait, probably three or four months ago at least, if
not longer.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
Keep going out with my friend Rosie when she had
paid for something online and then I gave for the cash.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
This morning, actually I bought a coffee.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
Well, we know that there's a massive generational divide around
carrying cash already. Right now, I'm assumed our golfing mate
is a bit older than the two of us in
terms of, you know, getting excited about carrying cash around.
And a year or two ago, actually there was all
this talk about girl math, right, and there was this
(11:14):
suggestion that when you pay something for something in cash,
then it's free because cash doesn't matter. There is that
kind of sense that cash is lesser than I suppose
amongst younger generations.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
Would you agree?
Speaker 5 (11:30):
I mean, I haven't seen research on it.
Speaker 4 (11:34):
I know the Reserve Bank has done a lot, But
if I did a vibe check on the street, that's
why I after, Yeah, I think I think there would
be a generational difference. Now, where that difference might go
away is if there's a natural disaster and we can't
(11:54):
use electronic waves of transmission, or if systems go down.
Speaker 5 (12:00):
Then cash should be handy. You know, that is a factor.
Speaker 4 (12:04):
The Reserve Bank, though, is of the view quite firmly
that there will always be a place for cash. Interestingly,
there were in recent years there was the bank did
quite a bit of work on whether it should issue
a digital currency. So that's taking things in a complete
different direction. And Ian Wilford, the person who's heading up
this physical cash work at the bank, he was in
(12:27):
charge of the digital cash work, and today he told
me that they're actually pushing pause on.
Speaker 5 (12:32):
That digital cash work. They're going to look.
Speaker 4 (12:35):
At addressing some of the issues in other ways, like
looking at modernizing the payment network. So it is interesting
that they do seem to be changing their focus and
going back to good old physical cash.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
Yeah. I mean going from digital cash and doing a
complete one eighty to physical cash is a pretty big move.
And like you said, it's pretty drastic suggesting all of
these ATMs and and branches, et cetera, et cetera. I suppose.
I don't know if you know this. The Australian government
actually announced a couple of years ago that it would
actually mandate businesses.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
Is that something that the New Zealand government has been
looking into.
Speaker 4 (13:16):
Yeah, that is an interesting point in Australia, some businesses
are made to accept cash.
Speaker 5 (13:23):
Again, that would no doubt be an equity issue.
Speaker 4 (13:26):
We asked the Reserve Bank about that today and they
said that that's something they will consider.
Speaker 5 (13:31):
So consider requiring businesses to accept cash. I know, like
if you walk around.
Speaker 4 (13:36):
Cities, a lot of businesses say they don't accept cash
at all. It'll be interesting to see what the politicians'
responses to that is as well.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
I suppose I'll be looking pretty closely at how things
are going in Australia. I understand that it only came
in January.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
First this year. So basically large.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
Retailers have been required to accept cash for a cent
items like groceries and fuel. It applies to in person
transactions obviously of five hundred dollars or less between the
hours of seven and nine.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
They'll be looking at that every you know, after three
years or so.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
But small businesses with an annual turnover under ten million
dollars are generally exempt, so I suppose we'll just keep
an eye on what the ossies are doing over there.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
I saw the reserve bank as one of the.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
Positives of keeping cash around, and not only when you
spoke about natural disasters of course, and when things go
awry and when you can't use your card, et cetera.
So obviously always good to have cash around. But in
terms of another thing, and I quite like this one, is,
you know, teaching kids financial literacy is perhaps a little
(14:47):
bit easier with cash as well, and I kind of
liked that they had thought about that, and also the
cultural identity part of it as well.
Speaker 4 (14:57):
Yeah, look, I know, and you know, the cool stuff
that might go back to my old mates, golfing, raffles
and so on, you know, community groups using cash.
Speaker 5 (15:09):
Zero bank recognized.
Speaker 4 (15:10):
You know, cash is often used, as you know, at
present or for gifts, and as you say, Chelsea, for
teaching kids about money. I remember as a child being
given two dollars and sent to the dairy with my
sister and we could pick what we wanted two dollars
and you know, painstakingly get a pack of lollies and
(15:30):
you know, and that taught.
Speaker 5 (15:32):
Us a valuable lesson.
Speaker 4 (15:33):
So the bank is looking at things pretty holistically. It
talks about well being, impacts of cash. I think these
are probably undisputed. I think the question though, is whether
the response it's proposing is proportionate.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
Yeah, exactly, So people actually have a chance to have
their say around this public consultation paper.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
Hey, what happens from here?
Speaker 5 (15:59):
Yeah, that's right, right.
Speaker 4 (16:00):
So there are a few documents on the Reserve banks website.
They're actually pretty easy to read. Judging from the our
Herald comments on our website, it seems like a topic
that everyone has an opinion on. The Reserve Bank is
welcoming public submissions. These clothes in on April ten, so
(16:20):
from that point it all take things further. And then separately,
the bank said that in April or around then it'll
issue another consultation on this Isshow I talked about before
about the modernization of the payments network, so that's going
to be its focus now instead of that digital currency.
Speaker 5 (16:42):
So there's a bit on the go definitely.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
Yeah, Well, we'll have to get you back on and
go through that another time.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
Thank you so much for joining us today.
Speaker 5 (16:51):
Thanks Chelsea, good to be here.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
That's it for this episode of the Front Page.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
You can read more about today stories and extensive news
coverage at enziherld dot co dot nz. The Front Page
is hosted and produced by me Chelsea daniels Kine. Dickie
is our studio operator, Richard Martin, our producer and editor,
and our executive producer is Jane Ye. Follow the Front
Page on the iheartapp or wherever you get your podcasts,
(17:21):
and join us next time for another look beyond the headlines.
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