February 14, 2026 • 40 mins
We've seen the data - the wait to get mental health or addiction support is getting lower and the system seems to be improving.
But the system is still under immense pressure, and too many people will have a story about being let down by those who were meant to help them or family, but why?
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
At b.
Speaker 3 (00:11):
In on those time.
Speaker 4 (00:15):
In all toes and time. Will you know why I'm in?
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Then I sitting my watch back to in on those time.
Speaker 4 (00:47):
Well, there I was in, Holly, wish't I was doing
good talking on the telephone line and welcome back. This
is the health Hub. By the way, if you miss
any of the hours after six slock I recommends you
can always just go and check him out on iHeart
Radio and News Talks. Be my guest. Actually I'll introduce
(01:08):
my guess in just a moment. You know, we've you know,
we've seen data. You know, there are lots of lots
of challenges to our health system, and of course mental
health is no exception to it. With the weight for
mental health or addiction supports getting lower lower, and the
system well, the questions about whether it's improving or not,
but it's it is improving apparently, but it's still under
(01:29):
immense pressure. And too many people have a story about
but let down by those who are meant to help
them or the family. So there's a bit of a
still a postcode lottery. So you know, I think that's
probably the case with many things in life, the difference
in outcomes that can depend on where you live. The
government has hit some targets, but the ministry himself knows
that more needs to be done and the opposition is
starting to question where the targets even paint the full picture.
(01:51):
So do you think there's a postcode lottery? Why is that?
It's just a fact of life? What can be done
to fix it? Any questions you've got, We've actually got
the Minister for Mental Health, Matt Doosey, is with us
for the health Harmonies and studio right now. Matt, Hello,
how are you him? I have to share with you
we have I'm going to out you on the on
the headphones thing. That's the funniest thing. I've had it
(02:14):
with guests. And the headphones are actually quite straightforward, but
when one of them is, when one ayear is tilted
in a particular angle, they can look like they're not
made to fit any normal human head. And we had
some fun with that until you worked out that none.
I just tilted that way and there they go.
Speaker 5 (02:28):
Matt, that's right.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
Some might say it was an intelligence test failed spectacularly,
but that's maybe why I've become a politician.
Speaker 4 (02:35):
Oh look, we've got cameras in the studio and there's
one next door. And there was one night when I
was about to go on air and for some reate
and I know how they work because I wear them
all the time. I just I was the same as
you and I was wrestling around. I oh, I do this,
But the camera would have shown a different story.
Speaker 5 (02:49):
So there we camera never.
Speaker 4 (02:50):
Lies, No, it doesn't.
Speaker 5 (02:52):
How are you very good?
Speaker 3 (02:53):
Thank you? Yeah, lovely to be back on your show.
Speaker 4 (02:55):
Well, thanks for coming on. Now, look we want your
course and if you'd like to either suggest something to Matt.
I mean, here's the minister for mental health. Although they
Seemore had his way, that might be a ministry that
will be gone by lunchtime. I'm not sure I'm being
a little fickle with that. But if you've got any
questions for Matt, we'd love to hear from you on
you know that your dealings with the mental health service
(03:18):
or system. But in particular, what if you were in
charge or had the air of well, the person who's
responsible for this portfolio, what would you want to see done?
And look, actually I am going to quote David Seymour
just in terms of that interview, because I remember what
the quote was. He said, as a politician, you can,
you can, you know, you can do anything, but you
(03:39):
can't do everything. And it's a little bit that's actually
not a bad quote because we all know what the
problems are in a way, don't we, Matt. Do we
know what the problems are with mental health and the
access to service or is it actually complex that it
is difficult to even pin down what challenges we're trying
to surmount.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
Yeah, I think it's an important point that David raises, right.
So look, as a mental health minister, I'm not here
to duplicate being the chief executs of Health New Zealand.
There is a big health system out here. I suppose
what is the role of a minister. Well, we're there
to set very clear expectations and driving delivery in line.
Speaker 5 (04:19):
With the priorities of the government.
Speaker 4 (04:22):
Actually, that's an interesting one that even ties it again
to the previous hour when somebody was saying how can
ministers be minister for several portfolios? And I think there's
this assumption that ministers are doing a lot of the
grunt work, you know, to make things happen in their portfolio.
But actually we've got a minister here. What is the
role of them? How would you describe the role of
(04:43):
the minister versus Maybe it's done by contrast with the
role of the chief executive of the Health Department. What
is what do you do and what can you do?
You have a policy, but then to make things happen
you have other people who there's the implementation of the
policy and the ideas. God that was around them. That
was like me with the set of headphones.
Speaker 5 (05:03):
Wasn't it a look as a minister?
Speaker 3 (05:06):
I learned very quickly You've still got to do a
lot of grunt work, right, because there's a lot of
moving parts involved, and a lot of people who might
take ideas off on to their own tangent and before
you know what you think you've articulated ends up very
differently on the ground through implementation. But I just put
it to you as a comparison. A lot of people
(05:28):
come to me about different.
Speaker 5 (05:30):
Types of therapies.
Speaker 3 (05:32):
Now within reason, that's not for me to get involved
in because I'm not a clinical expert. I'll leave that
to the clinical experts to understand what different types of
clinical therapies our services should provide. But actually, when it's
a view of what is the biggest priority in our
mental health services and how do we want to focus
the three billion dollars will spend this year. My view,
(05:55):
and that's why the Mental Health Plan states is to
focus on access first, because everyone says, in my time
and need, I found a fragmented system and it took
too long to be seen. And the second priority area
is workforce because the biggest barrier to access is too
many workforce vacancies. So that's what we focus on to
ensure we set clear expectations and clear deliverables through our portfolios.
Speaker 4 (06:19):
Actually, the access, I mean the workforce question is sort
of a subset of access, Yes, isn't it. But so
once you decide we need to enhance or make time enhance,
that's not the word. Once we focus on making sure
that people who need access to the system can actually
access it, it's a natural flow on, isn't it that.
What's the first thing we're going to look at workforce
(06:40):
and workforce?
Speaker 5 (06:42):
Yeah, very much so.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
And when you look at workforce you break that down
even further into not only how do we grow the
training pipeline. For instance, we've committed to doubling the amount
of clinical psychologists and training, but also how do you
retain the current workforce? So retention keep the existing workforce going.
And then the final part in that trilogy of a
(07:05):
puzzle is how do we support skilled migration and people
coming through the border and be more attractive because health
is very competitive internationally and we're competing with a lot
of different countries around the workforce that is very mobile,
and there's a lot that do choose they want to
(07:25):
come and live in New Zealand for a lot of reasons,
like our lifestyle.
Speaker 4 (07:29):
Actually, that is something I'm often curious to see. How
so there's if you were to watch the domestic news
or listen to news in New Zealand, sometimes you'd think
we were the only country that suffers from these. So
I've often taken a headline that's in New Zealand like
mental health, workforce severely depleted or whatever, and I've typed
(07:50):
it into and I've put dot co dot UK news
and the same issue pops up, And we do it
for Australia and the same issue pops up, and it
seems why so is that true that I mean to me,
it's not just a New Zealand problem. But why are
we seeing these headlines across at least OECD Western countries.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
Yeah, it's a good question, and we're no different than
other Western or comparable countries. What we saw around ten
years ago is a big increase of people coming forward
for mental health support. Now locally, a lot of people
would attribute that to well known people such as Sir
John Kerwin. I mean, you know, there's nothing more credible
(08:37):
than someone like Sir JK ifone knew him as an
international all black on the main stage coming out openly
talking about his challenging mental health issues, which really broke
the barrier, right, And there'll be other commentators, think of
Jazz Thornton for the young people, Mike King as well,
and they've really broken down a lot of barriers.
Speaker 5 (08:59):
And I'll just put it to you.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
I always use this analogy after the Second World War,
you know, are you telling me there wasn't a lot
of mental distress back then? Of course, there was a
lot of returning servicemen and women. But what happened in
those days it was bottled up behind closed doors. Domestic violence,
alcohol abuse, suicide no one talked about. And so yes,
today's world does have a lot of new pressures. But
(09:23):
I just put to you a lot of the demand
that we're seeing for mental health, that we need to
respond to quite urgently, is mental health issues that were
already there, but people wouldn't put their hand out, and
now they are.
Speaker 4 (09:34):
Actually, I'm really glad you mentioned that because one of
the argument that pops up and talk back, and you
can understand why, because it's probably invisible what happened in
the past. People will say, oh, well, you know when
London was going through the blitz, you know, you didn't
hear people complaining about their mental health, and yet they
must have been under a hell of a lot of stress.
(09:55):
And there's almost this nostalgic blurring of thinking, well, people
must have been fine, and I think that the intuitive
answer when you think about it, of course they weren't fine. No,
And as you say that, the consequences of the mental
health challenges that people faced were massive, Yes, But and
they had a consequence as you say, in terms of alcoholism,
(10:18):
domestic violence, et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 3 (10:20):
Yes, and behind closed doors and quiet, because it wasn't
that long ago that if you talked openly about your
mental health issues you're probably fared going to the asylum.
Speaker 5 (10:31):
You brought great shame.
Speaker 3 (10:33):
And stigma to your family and it wasn't something that
was openly talked about. But now, thankfully that has changed
and of anything been engaged in the mental health system
has seen.
Speaker 5 (10:48):
Something of.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
It gives people confidence to talk out and it gives
us an ability to use that lived experience to help
others going forward, so it can be turned into a
real strength where before it was shame and stigma.
Speaker 4 (11:06):
Actually, that's an interesting question to throw out to people
as well. Are we are we how much better are
we talking about it? And I'd love to know from you,
if you're listening, how confident do you feel about talking
about seeking help, about mentioning it to someone. I mean,
there are people who are saying, oh, look, have we
gone too far? The other the other way, you're feeling
(11:27):
a bit stressed, and all of a sudden everyone's saying
I've got mental health issues. It's very difficult as a
minister to comment on this.
Speaker 3 (11:34):
But no, I understand what's the discussions about. And you know,
you think of Sean Robinson from the Mental Health Foundation,
you know, chief executive very openly talks about as bipolar.
I don't think we should allow people to use mental
health as an excuse. There is an ability when you
(11:57):
have mental health challenges to learn and to put things
in place to keep you well. And I'll give you
a good example. I use as I've seen a survey
and mental health at times probably is the most over
surveyed thing. And the results don't tell us anything new,
but eighty percent of university students having experiencing stress. Well,
(12:19):
of course you are. You've either moved home from the
first time, financial pressures, relationship pressures, academic attainment pressures. The
real question is, out of the eighty percent who are stressed,
who are stressed and quite naturally, what is the small
group of that that it's actually negatively impacting.
Speaker 5 (12:40):
On their life?
Speaker 3 (12:41):
And what skills could have we given them earlier in
their life to be better prepared for that stage so
they go on because not everyone who gets stressed or
anxious has a negative experience, So we can actually equip
people with the tools they need.
Speaker 4 (12:55):
Actually, how important that raises the ambulance at the top
of the cliff, botom of the cliff, because sometimes a
lot of the time, I mean, okay, there are people
who who are hardwired to have certain challenges, whether it
be ADHD And I'm not going to get into the
different diagnoses because it's out of my ballpart, but we
(13:15):
all know what we're talking about that there are issues
that kids can have and as onto adults where they
do have mental health challenges just because that's them. Then
there are the challenges that are born of the fact
that you have been under pressure and you've been stressed
and you haven't dealt with it. Where are we out
of New Zealand with helping people in those early stages
(13:38):
from develop from ending up in a situation where I
really need help now because I'm losing the plot.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
Yeah, it's a great question. I mean, for those with
lifelong and enduring mental illness, fifty percent will first present
before the age of fourteen, eighty percent for the age
of twenty four. You can learn what keeps you well
and keep yourself well. We call it the recovery model.
Rather than the old days you got told what to
do by clinical practitioners. Now you learn what keeps you
(14:04):
well and they make sure you're at the center of
that and you put those supports in place. But for
those who are experiencing very normal anxiety and stress. Young
people are hungry for these tools, right, they know the
vocabulary of mental health. They're demanding more of these resources
and it's important on us, not only at primary school
(14:28):
high school. There's even talk now of equipping young people
in ecees with emotional regulation techniques and programs for younger
kids and their parents. So we do know there's a
lot we can do a lot earlier to learn the
skills of resilience.
Speaker 4 (14:44):
Is how much of a challenge is because to me
that sounds like something that should be fairly high up
the priority list. But of course if somebody is needing
urgent intensive you know, I mean, if you're on if
you are at a great risk because of your mental
health state, obviously that's the top of the list. Yes,
how much do the those pressing needs affect our ability
(15:08):
to be dealing with the stuff where we can look
at people, give people the tools and the help early on,
I got their invention.
Speaker 3 (15:15):
Now it's two speeds, it's and and parallel work streams,
I call them. So not only responding to the pressures
of sadly people middle life getting into crisis, but how
do we start to turn the ship around investing more
into prevention nearly intervention. And you ask me the role
of a minister. This is a good example. We have
(15:37):
the Mental Health and Addiction Ring Fence Fund should tip.
That's about two point eight billion at the moment. One
of my five targets first time we've set targets in
New Zealand for mental health is twenty five percent of
that budget to be spent on prevention. It's clear expectation
and the funding will start to shift into prevention because
(15:57):
if we don't do that, it's just the ambulance at
the bottom of the cliff where we set up crisis
services to wait for people to get in crisis to
use his services and that's not good for anyone.
Speaker 4 (16:08):
But we love your calls on this. We're with the
Minister for Mental Health. It's Matt douc Is with us
and he's quite happy to take your calls any questions
you've got. If you've got recommendations on ideas or something,
you won't want to run by them because you know
his job would be, as he would say himself, is
to listen to what your concerns are. Give us a
call on No. Eight hundred and eighty ten and eighty.
(16:28):
The broader questions I might throw out there as well,
is are we as Matt has referred to Sir John
Kerwin and his transparency and his leading the way about
talking about mental health, which I think has been phenomenal
and Dwarfs. I mean, it's quite something to say at
dwarfs contribution on the rugby field, but really I imagine
(16:50):
he would agree with that as well. But are we
better at talking about mental health? Are you more confident
in actually saying to either friends or seeking that help?
And if you have been more willing to do it,
have you struggled to get that and tell us about
your journey. We'd love to hear from you on eight
hundred eighty ten eighty. And as I say, Matt Doocy,
Minister of Mental Health, he's with us right now, so
(17:12):
give us a call. Eight hundred eighty ten eighty. Will
be back in a moment. It's twenty three past four
News Talk ZB News Talk said b I'm Tim Beverage
and my guest is the Minister for Mental Health. It's
Matt Doocey. Actually, just before we go to the calls,
I did have one just saying that on the accessing
the mental health care. How's the one seven to three
seven service go? Which I think is a fantastic initiative, Matt.
(17:34):
But somebody says communicating with one seven three seven as
a crisis in itself, how is it coping?
Speaker 3 (17:40):
Yeah, well, that's disappointing to hear because I know they
provide vital response for people more at the mold to
moderity in but of course been a itallyhealth line is
you know, people call and responded to. And what we
do know is that not everyone needs to see someone
necessarily in person, and not everyone needs specialists support, So
(18:03):
the ability when you well what happens in New Zealand
and other countries as well. We quite often conflate distress
with a mental health issue and quite often that they
are different and we all get in distress. It's a
natural phenomenon as human and quite often you can just
talk to someone be listened to, and that helps de
escalate the issue. And that's why one seven three seven
(18:27):
youth Line and other tallyhealth providers play a vital role.
Speaker 4 (18:30):
When was that created? The one seven three seven that's.
Speaker 3 (18:34):
Been around about five or six years now, and it's
interesting how still I wear the one seven three seven
pin and quite often I'd be stopped maybe once or
twice a day, people asking me about it. So it
shows we're going to do a lot more getting the
word out.
Speaker 4 (18:47):
There actually as a podcast, and where I work in
an area where you do get people who are calling
and sometimes you know, especially in the we small hours.
I got to say, it's a great resource to be
able to refer people because that they can text it,
they can call it, and even if there's no one there,
if you teach it, someone will be in touch. It
might not be instantly, but know that that you've started
(19:10):
the ball rolling at least.
Speaker 3 (19:11):
Yeah, that's a great service that should work. And you
think about it in a small country like New Zealand,
just having that one place one seven three seven where
everyone can go initially and to your point earlier, if
you need to actually be passed on to someone in
person or more specialists, they can escalate you to that service.
Speaker 4 (19:30):
Right. Let's take some calls, shall we? Eight hundred eighty
eight Claire, Hello, Hi, you're on air right now? You
can you can, you can say what you'd.
Speaker 6 (19:41):
Like to cool. So last year my mom passed away
and then twelve weeks later my dad passed away. So
I have three kids, so I'm grieving myself still.
Speaker 4 (19:55):
Hang on, how on, Claire, Claire, Just for a second,
I just lost that last year. That's because of the wind.
Speaker 7 (20:00):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 4 (20:01):
If you can turn your head so you don't hear
that sort of ruffling with the wind, that might help us,
or just find a little safe spot carry on.
Speaker 6 (20:10):
So I'm finding it myself to grief, but I didn't
realize how much it affected my other kids as well.
Speaker 4 (20:18):
In terms of you grieving or their grief.
Speaker 6 (20:20):
So I'm grieving, but I didn't realize how much they
were grieving as well.
Speaker 4 (20:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (20:25):
So one of them has moved out to be with
a family member, so I can concentrate on myself. But
how can I support them when I currently support myself.
Speaker 4 (20:37):
Well, you wouldn't be the first one to be wanting
to ask that question. I mean, Matt of grief support,
what would you for me say?
Speaker 3 (20:46):
Yeah, thanks for sharing that with us, clear, And grief
is a significant issue that can impact on people's well being.
As you've shared with us, Clear and go on to
create some mental distress at times as well. I'd encourage you,
if you haven't already, to reach out to your GP.
(21:09):
There will be the available Access and Choice program based
in primary care where you can talk to a mental
health practitioner for free. I've set a target for that
program to see people within one week, and that is
so you can have quick access to it. And then second,
for your children, you might want to talk to your school.
(21:29):
There's a program being rolled out called man AARK in
schools and that is allowing young people to not only
get the support, but it also involves the wider family
in gaining access to well being support as well.
Speaker 4 (21:42):
Hey can I ask you? You sorry? Stay with us, Claire?
So how do you access that? What's that GP thing?
And how do people access that side of things?
Speaker 3 (21:51):
It's called Access and Choice. It's based in GP programs practices.
Speaker 5 (21:57):
It is free.
Speaker 3 (21:57):
You actually don't need to go to your GP to
access it. You can call up your GP practice and
say you'd like to to talk to a hip health
improvement practitioner.
Speaker 4 (22:09):
Okay, cool? Are you are you giving me? Are you
being kind to yourself? Claire? Are you are you sort
of trying to sort of because trying to keep it
all together? I mean, I think that's a tough one.
Speaker 6 (22:21):
I mean, I am working full time still, so I
just feel like keeping busy as a thing, but then
I don't really have that down time for myself, so
I think when I get my downtime, I'm just like
overwhelmed with emotion.
Speaker 4 (22:33):
Yeah, well look we can all relate to that. Hey,
look you know I have that. There's been a couple
of suggestions there that help. And thanks for calling. You
know you take care of yourself.
Speaker 6 (22:43):
Awesome, Thank you.
Speaker 4 (22:46):
It's funny how grief happens, isn't it. I mean, when
my parents died, I mean I did have a moment
when I was on air actually just caught me by surprise.
But it's funny when it, you know, when it catches
up with you. I mean, it's something I could cope with,
but it's you know, everyone experiences it differently. Can be
pretty overwhelming, can't it.
Speaker 3 (23:05):
Yes, And it is around the processing of the grief.
People are different and for some people, whether it be
grief or stress, it takes a lot to impact on them,
where others, quite rightly, it stays with them. And I
think it's important to have the awareness to acknowledge that
you are grieving, but that also if you need it,
(23:27):
getting the support to process it as well.
Speaker 4 (23:29):
Yeah, so hopefully that's been hopeful for helpful for Claire.
Let's go to David.
Speaker 8 (23:35):
Hello, good day to Mett. Thank you David.
Speaker 4 (23:41):
Hi.
Speaker 8 (23:42):
I'm just say I absolutely am amazed and respect meant
what you're saying. And I want to share something that
I learn which is most valuable is that if you
talk about stuff, you're right. And I went through my
first marriage breakup my men. As you said to me, David,
(24:06):
if you're from a pub and someone's druck beside, you
talk about it, it will help. And I'm going to
then go forward. And I worked with the guy who
committed suicide. They had accounselor sitting in a room. I
walked past. I walked in and I said to this lady,
(24:28):
I said, I just need to say Deva, by the
grace of God, go I And I said to her
that was me. I was plucked off Grafton Bridge forty
years ago and I was say from killing myself and
I wasn't fair off. And I can talk about it now,
(24:55):
but I'll tell you what for thirty odd years, forty
years of my life.
Speaker 4 (25:02):
Yeah, yeah, difficult to talk about as it easier to
talk about these things now I would say it is
given that we're talking about.
Speaker 8 (25:08):
It on now one hundred. Yeah, I can share it
with people and how I share it now, as I've
say to people, Have you the guy called Mike Jin
Yeah yeah, yeah, I mean what has happened is that
it took me a long time to talk. But myke
(25:28):
taught us as mean to lower our shield of defense,
open up, talk about it.
Speaker 4 (25:35):
Yeah absolutely, David. Yeah, well obviously we can talk about
it more, can't.
Speaker 3 (25:40):
We very much so, and thanks for the call, David.
And it's brilliant that you're still here to share your story. Look,
I call it the renaissance of mental health in New Zealand.
It's it's really exciting. And I'll give you a reason
why I say that. We're rolling out peer support, lived
experience workers and emergency departments. We opened the service recently
(26:00):
in Wellington. There was a peer support lived experience worker
there like David, who had had their own battles and
their own experience of the system. And she said it
was quite surreal because only a few years earlier she
was turning up to emergency department in crisis. Now she
was the one giving the support. And it's great that
people like David and others feel as though now they
(26:23):
actually can talk about their experiences and share that with
others to show there is hope and light at.
Speaker 5 (26:28):
The end of the tunnel.
Speaker 4 (26:29):
And as when people do talk about some of these
themes to do with self harm, I always take the
opportunity to say, you've heard the number only a few
minutes ago, but if you do need to talk to someone,
then the number to text or call is one seven
three seven. It is really important that you remember that
number and if you feel like you really need someone
at least reach out to that one at the first
call or at last resort whatever. Right, We're going to
(26:53):
take a moment, come back and just to tick. It
is twenty three minutes to five News Talks hed B
News Talk said B. We're with Matt Doocy, Minister for
Mental Health, taking your calls on well a range of
things around mental health. So I tell you what, We've
got a bunch of cause lined up, so we'll leave
it over to you. Glenn.
Speaker 9 (27:07):
Hello, Yeah, cured to Minister dec. I've just got a
quick question about the role psychologists play within treating vulnerable
Kentucky and I have a question for you. You please
explain how a New Zealand regis a psychologist was able
to get away with signing their client's will that had
(27:31):
fifteen percent going to the psychologists home address.
Speaker 4 (27:35):
Well, that sounds pretty it's pretty dodgy.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
Miss, I have the will.
Speaker 9 (27:43):
I have a copy of the will.
Speaker 3 (27:45):
Yeah, I mean, we do have a regulatory body in
psychology and also professional college. So I'd suggest if you
think you've found an example of inappropriate practice, then you
should follow their complaints process.
Speaker 9 (28:02):
Mister I did that and the psychologist is able to
walk away and continue to practice.
Speaker 4 (28:10):
It's Glenn. Sorry, mate, It's difficult to dig into an
individual problem, but there is there is a as you say,
there's a process. It's pretty difficult to dig into that
now on this show in that context. But yeah, what
is the process actually with people have got a problem
with a mental health professional that they think someone's accident inappropriate.
Speaker 3 (28:29):
Well, we do have legislation in New Zealand which is
the Health Practitioners Competency and Assurance Act, which actually enables
regulatory bodies professional bodies that are the watchdog and the
monitor to ensure that our health practitioners delivering in line
with legislation. And also making sure that patient rights are
(28:56):
been upheld as well.
Speaker 4 (28:58):
Okay, Niri, Hello, Hi Hello.
Speaker 10 (29:04):
I just wanted to say a few quick things from
my experience, and then I want to talk for other
people eventually. I just want to start off by saying,
I've had fifty one years of my life in and
out of these mental institutions, and I want to touch
(29:25):
on this person every time before election year. I'm not
going to say you no matter want to embarrass you
or me or my friends. I get a letter in
my mailbox from a certain MP. So she starts off
by saying, there, and I'm very happy to tell you
that you know, I'm doing this, that, this, that, and
mental health is getting this much now. I find that
(29:50):
when a person I want to tell the listeners that
when a person comes to you, if they do and
they say, oh, you know, for instance, or I'm going
to kill myself, and people say no, no, Na, she's
talking abo, it won't do it well they will. So
I just want to say all I do is I
(30:11):
become a listening person. I had a friend dator this morning.
I invite them in, I make them coffee, I let
them talk, and I listened to them and most of
the time they just want someone to listen to them.
So I listened to them and I hear what they're
saying and we go from there. So the person feels
(30:34):
confident to go out and feel better that you know
this this and I'm going to boy me boy me,
et cetera. So I'm talking.
Speaker 4 (30:42):
About that is Actually you've actually touched on something which
I think is really important, isn't it? But it's and
it's this. It's it's the community, which.
Speaker 3 (30:51):
Big is in the government responsible your health.
Speaker 4 (30:54):
And it's it's about the community. In fact, it's one
of the things that it's one of the challenges these
days with devices and digital isolation all that sort of stuff,
that we're not talking to each other. And Iri iris
on the head with that, isn't she?
Speaker 3 (31:06):
Yeah, it was back to basics and it's families and
friends and communities all looking out for us. And no,
I rely hit the nail on the head for me.
I mean some of it is just making yourself available
to people on your street or your workplace and saying
if you want to have a chat, I have a
cup of coffee with you.
Speaker 4 (31:22):
Actually, that's I think that she has N's touched on something,
because when it comes to mental health, there are people
who say, oh my godness, I'm not qualified to talk
about this sort of stuff. And I think a lot
of people when they're when they're confronted with someone who's
in real distress think, and of course, you know, ideally
you want to get that person help beyond your own ear,
(31:44):
but just listening to someone as a default mechanism, tell me,
what do you want to talk about? Is you know,
not to be not to be sniffed at?
Speaker 2 (31:53):
Is it?
Speaker 8 (31:54):
No?
Speaker 5 (31:54):
Not at all?
Speaker 3 (31:54):
And people are different and for some they will be
more comfortable with that conversation, for others that they're quite concerned.
I do know with some older people talk to that
they still impacted by the stigma and the shame, so
they don't feel comfortable openly talking about it, nor do
they have the vocabulary. But younger people, boy, do they ever.
(32:16):
And I say, you can listen, and then part of
the role is to not necessarily give any clinical support.
You can just advocate and say, look, I've heard from
Tim the other day and he was talking on a show.
And there's a number called one seven three seven where
you can call and disconnecting.
Speaker 5 (32:32):
People as well.
Speaker 3 (32:34):
But I'll tell you what, it makes a big difference
for someone in their life if they know if they
need to there's someone there with a listening heir.
Speaker 4 (32:41):
Yeah, hey, thanks for your cornyri Look, I know you
probably had some other things you wanted to talk about.
What we've got to We're trying to get through a
few more calls before we wrap up there, but Maria
really appreciate your call.
Speaker 7 (32:51):
Yvonne, Hello, oh, hello, hello Matt, and that we're spoken.
We're spoken before I first of all, i'd like to
once again say I think you know the fact we're
all more and more people are talking about mental wealth
going forward as wonderful. I'd like to acknowledge procure in Auckland,
(33:17):
a place I think Professor Grant and his wife Luise,
a doctor, are the principles or owners or they govern
it and somehow you.
Speaker 4 (33:34):
Know, and it's pr p r e K e ah right.
Speaker 7 (33:42):
Sorry. Well they have just h not so long ago,
employed seventy life coaches, which is fabulous. You know, people
that weren't necessarily you know, studied or academic in the system,
(34:04):
but where I had perhaps gone through the mental health
system through their own life experiences and the fact that
you know they had some professionalism maybe and they've been selected,
you know, and it's fatus I did apply, but I
(34:26):
couldn't afford, you know, in my circumstances the study fees
and what have you. So I did put it to them,
would they consider having a volunteer section.
Speaker 4 (34:40):
Yeah, that's interesting actually focuses on that issue about does
everything you access have to be a government service or something?
Doesn't it matter?
Speaker 3 (34:48):
Yeah, thanks to von I think she raises a very
good point and what we do know in mental health. Look,
if you look at physical health, you'd l likely say
a hip replacement in christ Church is the same in Auckland.
But if you look at mental health, how we respond
to mental health and say middle aged dairy farmers where
I live in North Canterbury might be quite different than
(35:09):
young Mardy in South Auckland.
Speaker 5 (35:11):
So we do know.
Speaker 3 (35:12):
We've got a very vibrant NGO as a non government
organizations and community sectors who actually are a bit more
nimble than our government services. They know their community and
they get real results. So a key focus of this
government is getting more money out of Wellington to the
frontline community services as well and it's getting real results.
(35:33):
So well done for Yvonn for raising that.
Speaker 4 (35:35):
Now, Thanks yvon Chris, Hello here, good a, good a.
Speaker 2 (35:40):
Hi Chris, Hello, Well sorry, who am I saking with?
Speaker 4 (35:45):
You're with Tim Beverage and you've got the Minister of
mental Health Matt Doocy.
Speaker 5 (35:50):
Hopefully you're hoping to get us Chris, Oh.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
No, I totally was. I listened to all the time,
but I'm shocking with names. I've got a bad memory.
Speaker 4 (35:58):
Trust me, trust me, Christopher.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
Where you go, good as go, And it's not a
bit of a lifetime experiencing the mental health system good
and bad. Lost my mother's suicide, and I do have
a pessimistic view that the system is there because there
has to be only I only say this because you
(36:23):
can be going through hell and you can be screaming out,
pushing all the buttons, talking to the right people and
fall through the cracks. I don't feel emotional just talking
without trying to go too far and go off the
track of what I'm trying to say. But suicide suiciders
(36:45):
the end game of mental health. Now, I believe in
his Zellam has mental health and we're very lucky if
you're in trying to will be a completely different story.
But I believe they're there because they have to be
in our country. I've been quite a lot times, and
in one particular time, I just slammed his hand on
(37:06):
the disk because there's nothing wrong with you now. I
suffer from the trauma. I have a complex postmonic stressus
order and it's quite serious. But I try and soldier on.
Speaker 4 (37:16):
Have you been able to get that? Have you been
able to get help that you've needed a despite from.
Speaker 2 (37:21):
The public, mental health doesn't know. I've been shoved around
from person to person, seeing psychiatrists to psychiatrists as a psychiatrists,
and when you meet a new person, they don't have time.
They're I'm employed to read a lifetime of notes and
you never get to the bottom of it. I've recently
been working with ACC, which is a whole different kettle
(37:41):
of fish. The only unfortunate thing there is ACC mental
health don't share notes. So when you've got one person
that's say, got a claim of acy, I went in.
Speaker 3 (37:53):
To see Yeah, Chris, just before we move away from
your substantive point, because I think it's very important to
focus on I share your concerns as mental health Minister.
What keeps me up at night is that too many
people are not getting the support in the time they need.
So you know, we've spent a bit of the show
(38:14):
with Tim and me talking about how good in New
Zealand we're having this conversation and quite rightly it's the
way forward. But what worries me is that as we've
opened up this conversation, we've really given people a lot
of faith and hope to now reach out and ask
for help. And my concern is that help is not
timely there. So that's why we've focused on access. It's
(38:35):
got to be about giving people the help they need
when they ask for it.
Speaker 4 (38:39):
And Matt, well, look, we've only got about unfortunately because
on this show we're slave to time. What is there
any one thing you'd like to see what changed at all,
or any suggestions.
Speaker 2 (38:49):
Because with you Pece, support workers are chat because they've
been there, they know what they're talking about, they've experienced it.
It can be challenging. I'm currently going through the process
of getting that, but honestly do not believe there's enough
in the public new health system. There is no much stuff,
(39:10):
There is not enough funding. The government. The government has
it because they have to and it's as a safe dismister.
But from my experience when I went for my chriss.
Speaker 4 (39:21):
I will have to jump in there because we are
up against the clock and I really but I really
appreciate your calling. And actually you did touch on the
PEA support stuff, which we actually will come back and
have a little that's going to say a little bit
about the PEA support stuff as well, and also we'll
give more information about very few texts just asking about
the GP assistance for mental health and services as well.
We'll be back in just to take it is seven
(39:42):
and a half minutes to five. Yes, welcome back. Look,
we've only got a minute togo with Minister of Mental
Health Matt Doocy. Just quickly. We have a few people
just want to get more information about accessing mental health
services through their GP. Matt, how do we do that?
Speaker 3 (39:53):
Yeah, just contact your GP. It's called the Access and
Choice Program. You can get referred to what's called hips
Health Improvement Practitioners. They're on site in GP practices and
you can refer directly to them. You don't need to
see your GP first.
Speaker 5 (40:08):
Good excellent hips health and health improvement practitioners.
Speaker 4 (40:12):
There we go. Ye that mentioned that is maybe a
code word to your GP practice and just quickly we're
going about thirty seconds.
Speaker 2 (40:19):
But the.
Speaker 4 (40:21):
Peer support side of think mental health.
Speaker 3 (40:23):
Yeah, it's something we've focused on and government really scaled
up the roles. A good story recently opened and Hunter
Plaza here in Auckland a mental health service and a
shopping mall. Not on the third floor. Pass the toilet's
right on the ground floor next to countdown. Can walk
in and talk to a lived experience peer support worker.
You know that's are open. The mental health conversation is
(40:44):
getting in New Zealand.
Speaker 4 (40:45):
Mate, Hey, thank you so much for coming on. Thanks
to catch you again. That wraps up the Health HUD
Smart Money. Shane Sally's with us next.
Speaker 1 (40:55):
For more from the Weekend Collective, listen live to news
Talks be weekends from three pm, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
At b.
Speaker 3 (00:11):
In on those time.
Speaker 4 (00:15):
In all toes and time. Will you know why I'm in?
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Then I sitting my watch back to in on those time.
Speaker 4 (00:47):
Well, there I was in, Holly, wish't I was doing
good talking on the telephone line and welcome back. This
is the health Hub. By the way, if you miss
any of the hours after six slock I recommends you
can always just go and check him out on iHeart
Radio and News Talks. Be my guest. Actually I'll introduce
(01:08):
my guess in just a moment. You know, we've you know,
we've seen data. You know, there are lots of lots
of challenges to our health system, and of course mental
health is no exception to it. With the weight for
mental health or addiction supports getting lower lower, and the
system well, the questions about whether it's improving or not,
but it's it is improving apparently, but it's still under
(01:29):
immense pressure. And too many people have a story about
but let down by those who are meant to help
them or the family. So there's a bit of a
still a postcode lottery. So you know, I think that's
probably the case with many things in life, the difference
in outcomes that can depend on where you live. The
government has hit some targets, but the ministry himself knows
that more needs to be done and the opposition is
starting to question where the targets even paint the full picture.
(01:51):
So do you think there's a postcode lottery? Why is that?
It's just a fact of life? What can be done
to fix it? Any questions you've got, We've actually got
the Minister for Mental Health, Matt Doosey, is with us
for the health Harmonies and studio right now. Matt, Hello,
how are you him? I have to share with you
we have I'm going to out you on the on
the headphones thing. That's the funniest thing. I've had it
(02:14):
with guests. And the headphones are actually quite straightforward, but
when one of them is, when one ayear is tilted
in a particular angle, they can look like they're not
made to fit any normal human head. And we had
some fun with that until you worked out that none.
I just tilted that way and there they go.
Speaker 5 (02:28):
Matt, that's right.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
Some might say it was an intelligence test failed spectacularly,
but that's maybe why I've become a politician.
Speaker 4 (02:35):
Oh look, we've got cameras in the studio and there's
one next door. And there was one night when I
was about to go on air and for some reate
and I know how they work because I wear them
all the time. I just I was the same as
you and I was wrestling around. I oh, I do this,
But the camera would have shown a different story.
Speaker 5 (02:49):
So there we camera never.
Speaker 4 (02:50):
Lies, No, it doesn't.
Speaker 5 (02:52):
How are you very good?
Speaker 3 (02:53):
Thank you? Yeah, lovely to be back on your show.
Speaker 4 (02:55):
Well, thanks for coming on. Now, look we want your
course and if you'd like to either suggest something to Matt.
I mean, here's the minister for mental health. Although they
Seemore had his way, that might be a ministry that
will be gone by lunchtime. I'm not sure I'm being
a little fickle with that. But if you've got any
questions for Matt, we'd love to hear from you on
you know that your dealings with the mental health service
(03:18):
or system. But in particular, what if you were in
charge or had the air of well, the person who's
responsible for this portfolio, what would you want to see done?
And look, actually I am going to quote David Seymour
just in terms of that interview, because I remember what
the quote was. He said, as a politician, you can,
you can, you know, you can do anything, but you
(03:39):
can't do everything. And it's a little bit that's actually
not a bad quote because we all know what the
problems are in a way, don't we, Matt. Do we
know what the problems are with mental health and the
access to service or is it actually complex that it
is difficult to even pin down what challenges we're trying
to surmount.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
Yeah, I think it's an important point that David raises, right.
So look, as a mental health minister, I'm not here
to duplicate being the chief executs of Health New Zealand.
There is a big health system out here. I suppose
what is the role of a minister. Well, we're there
to set very clear expectations and driving delivery in line.
Speaker 5 (04:19):
With the priorities of the government.
Speaker 4 (04:22):
Actually, that's an interesting one that even ties it again
to the previous hour when somebody was saying how can
ministers be minister for several portfolios? And I think there's
this assumption that ministers are doing a lot of the
grunt work, you know, to make things happen in their portfolio.
But actually we've got a minister here. What is the
role of them? How would you describe the role of
(04:43):
the minister versus Maybe it's done by contrast with the
role of the chief executive of the Health Department. What
is what do you do and what can you do?
You have a policy, but then to make things happen
you have other people who there's the implementation of the
policy and the ideas. God that was around them. That
was like me with the set of headphones.
Speaker 5 (05:03):
Wasn't it a look as a minister?
Speaker 3 (05:06):
I learned very quickly You've still got to do a
lot of grunt work, right, because there's a lot of
moving parts involved, and a lot of people who might
take ideas off on to their own tangent and before
you know what you think you've articulated ends up very
differently on the ground through implementation. But I just put
it to you as a comparison. A lot of people
(05:28):
come to me about different.
Speaker 5 (05:30):
Types of therapies.
Speaker 3 (05:32):
Now within reason, that's not for me to get involved
in because I'm not a clinical expert. I'll leave that
to the clinical experts to understand what different types of
clinical therapies our services should provide. But actually, when it's
a view of what is the biggest priority in our
mental health services and how do we want to focus
the three billion dollars will spend this year. My view,
(05:55):
and that's why the Mental Health Plan states is to
focus on access first, because everyone says, in my time
and need, I found a fragmented system and it took
too long to be seen. And the second priority area
is workforce because the biggest barrier to access is too
many workforce vacancies. So that's what we focus on to
ensure we set clear expectations and clear deliverables through our portfolios.
Speaker 4 (06:19):
Actually, the access, I mean the workforce question is sort
of a subset of access, Yes, isn't it. But so
once you decide we need to enhance or make time enhance,
that's not the word. Once we focus on making sure
that people who need access to the system can actually
access it, it's a natural flow on, isn't it that.
What's the first thing we're going to look at workforce
(06:40):
and workforce?
Speaker 5 (06:42):
Yeah, very much so.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
And when you look at workforce you break that down
even further into not only how do we grow the
training pipeline. For instance, we've committed to doubling the amount
of clinical psychologists and training, but also how do you
retain the current workforce? So retention keep the existing workforce going.
And then the final part in that trilogy of a
(07:05):
puzzle is how do we support skilled migration and people
coming through the border and be more attractive because health
is very competitive internationally and we're competing with a lot
of different countries around the workforce that is very mobile,
and there's a lot that do choose they want to
(07:25):
come and live in New Zealand for a lot of reasons,
like our lifestyle.
Speaker 4 (07:29):
Actually, that is something I'm often curious to see. How
so there's if you were to watch the domestic news
or listen to news in New Zealand, sometimes you'd think
we were the only country that suffers from these. So
I've often taken a headline that's in New Zealand like
mental health, workforce severely depleted or whatever, and I've typed
(07:50):
it into and I've put dot co dot UK news
and the same issue pops up, And we do it
for Australia and the same issue pops up, and it
seems why so is that true that I mean to me,
it's not just a New Zealand problem. But why are
we seeing these headlines across at least OECD Western countries.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
Yeah, it's a good question, and we're no different than
other Western or comparable countries. What we saw around ten
years ago is a big increase of people coming forward
for mental health support. Now locally, a lot of people
would attribute that to well known people such as Sir
John Kerwin. I mean, you know, there's nothing more credible
(08:37):
than someone like Sir JK ifone knew him as an
international all black on the main stage coming out openly
talking about his challenging mental health issues, which really broke
the barrier, right, And there'll be other commentators, think of
Jazz Thornton for the young people, Mike King as well,
and they've really broken down a lot of barriers.
Speaker 5 (08:59):
And I'll just put it to you.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
I always use this analogy after the Second World War,
you know, are you telling me there wasn't a lot
of mental distress back then? Of course, there was a
lot of returning servicemen and women. But what happened in
those days it was bottled up behind closed doors. Domestic violence,
alcohol abuse, suicide no one talked about. And so yes,
today's world does have a lot of new pressures. But
(09:23):
I just put to you a lot of the demand
that we're seeing for mental health, that we need to
respond to quite urgently, is mental health issues that were
already there, but people wouldn't put their hand out, and
now they are.
Speaker 4 (09:34):
Actually, I'm really glad you mentioned that because one of
the argument that pops up and talk back, and you
can understand why, because it's probably invisible what happened in
the past. People will say, oh, well, you know when
London was going through the blitz, you know, you didn't
hear people complaining about their mental health, and yet they
must have been under a hell of a lot of stress.
(09:55):
And there's almost this nostalgic blurring of thinking, well, people
must have been fine, and I think that the intuitive
answer when you think about it, of course they weren't fine. No,
And as you say that, the consequences of the mental
health challenges that people faced were massive, Yes, But and
they had a consequence as you say, in terms of alcoholism,
(10:18):
domestic violence, et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 3 (10:20):
Yes, and behind closed doors and quiet, because it wasn't
that long ago that if you talked openly about your
mental health issues you're probably fared going to the asylum.
Speaker 5 (10:31):
You brought great shame.
Speaker 3 (10:33):
And stigma to your family and it wasn't something that
was openly talked about. But now, thankfully that has changed
and of anything been engaged in the mental health system
has seen.
Speaker 5 (10:48):
Something of.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
It gives people confidence to talk out and it gives
us an ability to use that lived experience to help
others going forward, so it can be turned into a
real strength where before it was shame and stigma.
Speaker 4 (11:06):
Actually, that's an interesting question to throw out to people
as well. Are we are we how much better are
we talking about it? And I'd love to know from you,
if you're listening, how confident do you feel about talking
about seeking help, about mentioning it to someone. I mean,
there are people who are saying, oh, look, have we
gone too far? The other the other way, you're feeling
(11:27):
a bit stressed, and all of a sudden everyone's saying
I've got mental health issues. It's very difficult as a
minister to comment on this.
Speaker 3 (11:34):
But no, I understand what's the discussions about. And you know,
you think of Sean Robinson from the Mental Health Foundation,
you know, chief executive very openly talks about as bipolar.
I don't think we should allow people to use mental
health as an excuse. There is an ability when you
(11:57):
have mental health challenges to learn and to put things
in place to keep you well. And I'll give you
a good example. I use as I've seen a survey
and mental health at times probably is the most over
surveyed thing. And the results don't tell us anything new,
but eighty percent of university students having experiencing stress. Well,
(12:19):
of course you are. You've either moved home from the
first time, financial pressures, relationship pressures, academic attainment pressures. The
real question is, out of the eighty percent who are stressed,
who are stressed and quite naturally, what is the small
group of that that it's actually negatively impacting.
Speaker 5 (12:40):
On their life?
Speaker 3 (12:41):
And what skills could have we given them earlier in
their life to be better prepared for that stage so
they go on because not everyone who gets stressed or
anxious has a negative experience, So we can actually equip
people with the tools they need.
Speaker 4 (12:55):
Actually, how important that raises the ambulance at the top
of the cliff, botom of the cliff, because sometimes a
lot of the time, I mean, okay, there are people
who who are hardwired to have certain challenges, whether it
be ADHD And I'm not going to get into the
different diagnoses because it's out of my ballpart, but we
(13:15):
all know what we're talking about that there are issues
that kids can have and as onto adults where they
do have mental health challenges just because that's them. Then
there are the challenges that are born of the fact
that you have been under pressure and you've been stressed
and you haven't dealt with it. Where are we out
of New Zealand with helping people in those early stages
(13:38):
from develop from ending up in a situation where I
really need help now because I'm losing the plot.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
Yeah, it's a great question. I mean, for those with
lifelong and enduring mental illness, fifty percent will first present
before the age of fourteen, eighty percent for the age
of twenty four. You can learn what keeps you well
and keep yourself well. We call it the recovery model.
Rather than the old days you got told what to
do by clinical practitioners. Now you learn what keeps you
(14:04):
well and they make sure you're at the center of
that and you put those supports in place. But for
those who are experiencing very normal anxiety and stress. Young
people are hungry for these tools, right, they know the
vocabulary of mental health. They're demanding more of these resources
and it's important on us, not only at primary school
(14:28):
high school. There's even talk now of equipping young people
in ecees with emotional regulation techniques and programs for younger
kids and their parents. So we do know there's a
lot we can do a lot earlier to learn the
skills of resilience.
Speaker 4 (14:44):
Is how much of a challenge is because to me
that sounds like something that should be fairly high up
the priority list. But of course if somebody is needing
urgent intensive you know, I mean, if you're on if
you are at a great risk because of your mental
health state, obviously that's the top of the list. Yes,
how much do the those pressing needs affect our ability
(15:08):
to be dealing with the stuff where we can look
at people, give people the tools and the help early on,
I got their invention.
Speaker 3 (15:15):
Now it's two speeds, it's and and parallel work streams,
I call them. So not only responding to the pressures
of sadly people middle life getting into crisis, but how
do we start to turn the ship around investing more
into prevention nearly intervention. And you ask me the role
of a minister. This is a good example. We have
(15:37):
the Mental Health and Addiction Ring Fence Fund should tip.
That's about two point eight billion at the moment. One
of my five targets first time we've set targets in
New Zealand for mental health is twenty five percent of
that budget to be spent on prevention. It's clear expectation
and the funding will start to shift into prevention because
(15:57):
if we don't do that, it's just the ambulance at
the bottom of the cliff where we set up crisis
services to wait for people to get in crisis to
use his services and that's not good for anyone.
Speaker 4 (16:08):
But we love your calls on this. We're with the
Minister for Mental Health. It's Matt douc Is with us
and he's quite happy to take your calls any questions
you've got. If you've got recommendations on ideas or something,
you won't want to run by them because you know
his job would be, as he would say himself, is
to listen to what your concerns are. Give us a
call on No. Eight hundred and eighty ten and eighty.
(16:28):
The broader questions I might throw out there as well,
is are we as Matt has referred to Sir John
Kerwin and his transparency and his leading the way about
talking about mental health, which I think has been phenomenal
and Dwarfs. I mean, it's quite something to say at
dwarfs contribution on the rugby field, but really I imagine
(16:50):
he would agree with that as well. But are we
better at talking about mental health? Are you more confident
in actually saying to either friends or seeking that help?
And if you have been more willing to do it,
have you struggled to get that and tell us about
your journey. We'd love to hear from you on eight
hundred eighty ten eighty. And as I say, Matt Doocy,
Minister of Mental Health, he's with us right now, so
(17:12):
give us a call. Eight hundred eighty ten eighty. Will
be back in a moment. It's twenty three past four
News Talk ZB News Talk said b I'm Tim Beverage
and my guest is the Minister for Mental Health. It's
Matt Doocey. Actually, just before we go to the calls,
I did have one just saying that on the accessing
the mental health care. How's the one seven to three
seven service go? Which I think is a fantastic initiative, Matt.
(17:34):
But somebody says communicating with one seven three seven as
a crisis in itself, how is it coping?
Speaker 3 (17:40):
Yeah, well, that's disappointing to hear because I know they
provide vital response for people more at the mold to
moderity in but of course been a itallyhealth line is
you know, people call and responded to. And what we
do know is that not everyone needs to see someone
necessarily in person, and not everyone needs specialists support, So
(18:03):
the ability when you well what happens in New Zealand
and other countries as well. We quite often conflate distress
with a mental health issue and quite often that they
are different and we all get in distress. It's a
natural phenomenon as human and quite often you can just
talk to someone be listened to, and that helps de
escalate the issue. And that's why one seven three seven
(18:27):
youth Line and other tallyhealth providers play a vital role.
Speaker 4 (18:30):
When was that created? The one seven three seven that's.
Speaker 3 (18:34):
Been around about five or six years now, and it's
interesting how still I wear the one seven three seven
pin and quite often I'd be stopped maybe once or
twice a day, people asking me about it. So it
shows we're going to do a lot more getting the
word out.
Speaker 4 (18:47):
There actually as a podcast, and where I work in
an area where you do get people who are calling
and sometimes you know, especially in the we small hours.
I got to say, it's a great resource to be
able to refer people because that they can text it,
they can call it, and even if there's no one there,
if you teach it, someone will be in touch. It
might not be instantly, but know that that you've started
(19:10):
the ball rolling at least.
Speaker 3 (19:11):
Yeah, that's a great service that should work. And you
think about it in a small country like New Zealand,
just having that one place one seven three seven where
everyone can go initially and to your point earlier, if
you need to actually be passed on to someone in
person or more specialists, they can escalate you to that service.
Speaker 4 (19:30):
Right. Let's take some calls, shall we? Eight hundred eighty
eight Claire, Hello, Hi, you're on air right now? You
can you can, you can say what you'd.
Speaker 6 (19:41):
Like to cool. So last year my mom passed away
and then twelve weeks later my dad passed away. So
I have three kids, so I'm grieving myself still.
Speaker 4 (19:55):
Hang on, how on, Claire, Claire, Just for a second,
I just lost that last year. That's because of the wind.
Speaker 7 (20:00):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 4 (20:01):
If you can turn your head so you don't hear
that sort of ruffling with the wind, that might help us,
or just find a little safe spot carry on.
Speaker 6 (20:10):
So I'm finding it myself to grief, but I didn't
realize how much it affected my other kids as well.
Speaker 4 (20:18):
In terms of you grieving or their grief.
Speaker 6 (20:20):
So I'm grieving, but I didn't realize how much they
were grieving as well.
Speaker 4 (20:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (20:25):
So one of them has moved out to be with
a family member, so I can concentrate on myself. But
how can I support them when I currently support myself.
Speaker 4 (20:37):
Well, you wouldn't be the first one to be wanting
to ask that question. I mean, Matt of grief support,
what would you for me say?
Speaker 3 (20:46):
Yeah, thanks for sharing that with us, clear, And grief
is a significant issue that can impact on people's well being.
As you've shared with us, Clear and go on to
create some mental distress at times as well. I'd encourage you,
if you haven't already, to reach out to your GP.
(21:09):
There will be the available Access and Choice program based
in primary care where you can talk to a mental
health practitioner for free. I've set a target for that
program to see people within one week, and that is
so you can have quick access to it. And then second,
for your children, you might want to talk to your school.
(21:29):
There's a program being rolled out called man AARK in
schools and that is allowing young people to not only
get the support, but it also involves the wider family
in gaining access to well being support as well.
Speaker 4 (21:42):
Hey can I ask you? You sorry? Stay with us, Claire?
So how do you access that? What's that GP thing?
And how do people access that side of things?
Speaker 3 (21:51):
It's called Access and Choice. It's based in GP programs practices.
Speaker 5 (21:57):
It is free.
Speaker 3 (21:57):
You actually don't need to go to your GP to
access it. You can call up your GP practice and
say you'd like to to talk to a hip health
improvement practitioner.
Speaker 4 (22:09):
Okay, cool? Are you are you giving me? Are you
being kind to yourself? Claire? Are you are you sort
of trying to sort of because trying to keep it
all together? I mean, I think that's a tough one.
Speaker 6 (22:21):
I mean, I am working full time still, so I
just feel like keeping busy as a thing, but then
I don't really have that down time for myself, so
I think when I get my downtime, I'm just like
overwhelmed with emotion.
Speaker 4 (22:33):
Yeah, well look we can all relate to that. Hey,
look you know I have that. There's been a couple
of suggestions there that help. And thanks for calling. You
know you take care of yourself.
Speaker 6 (22:43):
Awesome, Thank you.
Speaker 4 (22:46):
It's funny how grief happens, isn't it. I mean, when
my parents died, I mean I did have a moment
when I was on air actually just caught me by surprise.
But it's funny when it, you know, when it catches
up with you. I mean, it's something I could cope with,
but it's you know, everyone experiences it differently. Can be
pretty overwhelming, can't it.
Speaker 3 (23:05):
Yes, And it is around the processing of the grief.
People are different and for some people, whether it be
grief or stress, it takes a lot to impact on them,
where others, quite rightly, it stays with them. And I
think it's important to have the awareness to acknowledge that
you are grieving, but that also if you need it,
(23:27):
getting the support to process it as well.
Speaker 4 (23:29):
Yeah, so hopefully that's been hopeful for helpful for Claire.
Let's go to David.
Speaker 8 (23:35):
Hello, good day to Mett. Thank you David.
Speaker 4 (23:41):
Hi.
Speaker 8 (23:42):
I'm just say I absolutely am amazed and respect meant
what you're saying. And I want to share something that
I learn which is most valuable is that if you
talk about stuff, you're right. And I went through my
first marriage breakup my men. As you said to me, David,
(24:06):
if you're from a pub and someone's druck beside, you
talk about it, it will help. And I'm going to
then go forward. And I worked with the guy who
committed suicide. They had accounselor sitting in a room. I
walked past. I walked in and I said to this lady,
(24:28):
I said, I just need to say Deva, by the
grace of God, go I And I said to her
that was me. I was plucked off Grafton Bridge forty
years ago and I was say from killing myself and
I wasn't fair off. And I can talk about it now,
(24:55):
but I'll tell you what for thirty odd years, forty
years of my life.
Speaker 4 (25:02):
Yeah, yeah, difficult to talk about as it easier to
talk about these things now I would say it is
given that we're talking about.
Speaker 8 (25:08):
It on now one hundred. Yeah, I can share it
with people and how I share it now, as I've
say to people, Have you the guy called Mike Jin
Yeah yeah, yeah, I mean what has happened is that
it took me a long time to talk. But myke
(25:28):
taught us as mean to lower our shield of defense,
open up, talk about it.
Speaker 4 (25:35):
Yeah absolutely, David. Yeah, well obviously we can talk about
it more, can't.
Speaker 3 (25:40):
We very much so, and thanks for the call, David.
And it's brilliant that you're still here to share your story. Look,
I call it the renaissance of mental health in New Zealand.
It's it's really exciting. And I'll give you a reason
why I say that. We're rolling out peer support, lived
experience workers and emergency departments. We opened the service recently
(26:00):
in Wellington. There was a peer support lived experience worker
there like David, who had had their own battles and
their own experience of the system. And she said it
was quite surreal because only a few years earlier she
was turning up to emergency department in crisis. Now she
was the one giving the support. And it's great that
people like David and others feel as though now they
(26:23):
actually can talk about their experiences and share that with
others to show there is hope and light at.
Speaker 5 (26:28):
The end of the tunnel.
Speaker 4 (26:29):
And as when people do talk about some of these
themes to do with self harm, I always take the
opportunity to say, you've heard the number only a few
minutes ago, but if you do need to talk to someone,
then the number to text or call is one seven
three seven. It is really important that you remember that
number and if you feel like you really need someone
at least reach out to that one at the first
call or at last resort whatever. Right, We're going to
(26:53):
take a moment, come back and just to tick. It
is twenty three minutes to five News Talks hed B
News Talk said B. We're with Matt Doocy, Minister for
Mental Health, taking your calls on well a range of
things around mental health. So I tell you what, We've
got a bunch of cause lined up, so we'll leave
it over to you. Glenn.
Speaker 9 (27:07):
Hello, Yeah, cured to Minister dec. I've just got a
quick question about the role psychologists play within treating vulnerable
Kentucky and I have a question for you. You please
explain how a New Zealand regis a psychologist was able
to get away with signing their client's will that had
(27:31):
fifteen percent going to the psychologists home address.
Speaker 4 (27:35):
Well, that sounds pretty it's pretty dodgy.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
Miss, I have the will.
Speaker 9 (27:43):
I have a copy of the will.
Speaker 3 (27:45):
Yeah, I mean, we do have a regulatory body in
psychology and also professional college. So I'd suggest if you
think you've found an example of inappropriate practice, then you
should follow their complaints process.
Speaker 9 (28:02):
Mister I did that and the psychologist is able to
walk away and continue to practice.
Speaker 4 (28:10):
It's Glenn. Sorry, mate, It's difficult to dig into an
individual problem, but there is there is a as you say,
there's a process. It's pretty difficult to dig into that
now on this show in that context. But yeah, what
is the process actually with people have got a problem
with a mental health professional that they think someone's accident inappropriate.
Speaker 3 (28:29):
Well, we do have legislation in New Zealand which is
the Health Practitioners Competency and Assurance Act, which actually enables
regulatory bodies professional bodies that are the watchdog and the
monitor to ensure that our health practitioners delivering in line
with legislation. And also making sure that patient rights are
(28:56):
been upheld as well.
Speaker 4 (28:58):
Okay, Niri, Hello, Hi Hello.
Speaker 10 (29:04):
I just wanted to say a few quick things from
my experience, and then I want to talk for other
people eventually. I just want to start off by saying,
I've had fifty one years of my life in and
out of these mental institutions, and I want to touch
(29:25):
on this person every time before election year. I'm not
going to say you no matter want to embarrass you
or me or my friends. I get a letter in
my mailbox from a certain MP. So she starts off
by saying, there, and I'm very happy to tell you
that you know, I'm doing this, that, this, that, and
mental health is getting this much now. I find that
(29:50):
when a person I want to tell the listeners that
when a person comes to you, if they do and
they say, oh, you know, for instance, or I'm going
to kill myself, and people say no, no, Na, she's
talking abo, it won't do it well they will. So
I just want to say all I do is I
(30:11):
become a listening person. I had a friend dator this morning.
I invite them in, I make them coffee, I let
them talk, and I listened to them and most of
the time they just want someone to listen to them.
So I listened to them and I hear what they're
saying and we go from there. So the person feels
(30:34):
confident to go out and feel better that you know
this this and I'm going to boy me boy me,
et cetera. So I'm talking.
Speaker 4 (30:42):
About that is Actually you've actually touched on something which
I think is really important, isn't it? But it's and
it's this. It's it's the community, which.
Speaker 3 (30:51):
Big is in the government responsible your health.
Speaker 4 (30:54):
And it's it's about the community. In fact, it's one
of the things that it's one of the challenges these
days with devices and digital isolation all that sort of stuff,
that we're not talking to each other. And Iri iris
on the head with that, isn't she?
Speaker 3 (31:06):
Yeah, it was back to basics and it's families and
friends and communities all looking out for us. And no,
I rely hit the nail on the head for me.
I mean some of it is just making yourself available
to people on your street or your workplace and saying
if you want to have a chat, I have a
cup of coffee with you.
Speaker 4 (31:22):
Actually, that's I think that she has N's touched on something,
because when it comes to mental health, there are people
who say, oh my godness, I'm not qualified to talk
about this sort of stuff. And I think a lot
of people when they're when they're confronted with someone who's
in real distress think, and of course, you know, ideally
you want to get that person help beyond your own ear,
(31:44):
but just listening to someone as a default mechanism, tell me,
what do you want to talk about? Is you know,
not to be not to be sniffed at?
Speaker 2 (31:53):
Is it?
Speaker 8 (31:54):
No?
Speaker 5 (31:54):
Not at all?
Speaker 3 (31:54):
And people are different and for some they will be
more comfortable with that conversation, for others that they're quite concerned.
I do know with some older people talk to that
they still impacted by the stigma and the shame, so
they don't feel comfortable openly talking about it, nor do
they have the vocabulary. But younger people, boy, do they ever.
(32:16):
And I say, you can listen, and then part of
the role is to not necessarily give any clinical support.
You can just advocate and say, look, I've heard from
Tim the other day and he was talking on a show.
And there's a number called one seven three seven where
you can call and disconnecting.
Speaker 5 (32:32):
People as well.
Speaker 3 (32:34):
But I'll tell you what, it makes a big difference
for someone in their life if they know if they
need to there's someone there with a listening heir.
Speaker 4 (32:41):
Yeah, hey, thanks for your cornyri Look, I know you
probably had some other things you wanted to talk about.
What we've got to We're trying to get through a
few more calls before we wrap up there, but Maria
really appreciate your call.
Speaker 7 (32:51):
Yvonne, Hello, oh, hello, hello Matt, and that we're spoken.
We're spoken before I first of all, i'd like to
once again say I think you know the fact we're
all more and more people are talking about mental wealth
going forward as wonderful. I'd like to acknowledge procure in Auckland,
(33:17):
a place I think Professor Grant and his wife Luise,
a doctor, are the principles or owners or they govern
it and somehow you.
Speaker 4 (33:34):
Know, and it's pr p r e K e ah right.
Speaker 7 (33:42):
Sorry. Well they have just h not so long ago,
employed seventy life coaches, which is fabulous. You know, people
that weren't necessarily you know, studied or academic in the system,
(34:04):
but where I had perhaps gone through the mental health
system through their own life experiences and the fact that
you know they had some professionalism maybe and they've been selected,
you know, and it's fatus I did apply, but I
(34:26):
couldn't afford, you know, in my circumstances the study fees
and what have you. So I did put it to them,
would they consider having a volunteer section.
Speaker 4 (34:40):
Yeah, that's interesting actually focuses on that issue about does
everything you access have to be a government service or something?
Doesn't it matter?
Speaker 3 (34:48):
Yeah, thanks to von I think she raises a very
good point and what we do know in mental health. Look,
if you look at physical health, you'd l likely say
a hip replacement in christ Church is the same in Auckland.
But if you look at mental health, how we respond
to mental health and say middle aged dairy farmers where
I live in North Canterbury might be quite different than
(35:09):
young Mardy in South Auckland.
Speaker 5 (35:11):
So we do know.
Speaker 3 (35:12):
We've got a very vibrant NGO as a non government
organizations and community sectors who actually are a bit more
nimble than our government services. They know their community and
they get real results. So a key focus of this
government is getting more money out of Wellington to the
frontline community services as well and it's getting real results.
(35:33):
So well done for Yvonn for raising that.
Speaker 4 (35:35):
Now, Thanks yvon Chris, Hello here, good a, good a.
Speaker 2 (35:40):
Hi Chris, Hello, Well sorry, who am I saking with?
Speaker 4 (35:45):
You're with Tim Beverage and you've got the Minister of
mental Health Matt Doocy.
Speaker 5 (35:50):
Hopefully you're hoping to get us Chris, Oh.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
No, I totally was. I listened to all the time,
but I'm shocking with names. I've got a bad memory.
Speaker 4 (35:58):
Trust me, trust me, Christopher.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
Where you go, good as go, And it's not a
bit of a lifetime experiencing the mental health system good
and bad. Lost my mother's suicide, and I do have
a pessimistic view that the system is there because there
has to be only I only say this because you
(36:23):
can be going through hell and you can be screaming out,
pushing all the buttons, talking to the right people and
fall through the cracks. I don't feel emotional just talking
without trying to go too far and go off the
track of what I'm trying to say. But suicide suiciders
(36:45):
the end game of mental health. Now, I believe in
his Zellam has mental health and we're very lucky if
you're in trying to will be a completely different story.
But I believe they're there because they have to be
in our country. I've been quite a lot times, and
in one particular time, I just slammed his hand on
(37:06):
the disk because there's nothing wrong with you now. I
suffer from the trauma. I have a complex postmonic stressus
order and it's quite serious. But I try and soldier on.
Speaker 4 (37:16):
Have you been able to get that? Have you been
able to get help that you've needed a despite from.
Speaker 2 (37:21):
The public, mental health doesn't know. I've been shoved around
from person to person, seeing psychiatrists to psychiatrists as a psychiatrists,
and when you meet a new person, they don't have time.
They're I'm employed to read a lifetime of notes and
you never get to the bottom of it. I've recently
been working with ACC, which is a whole different kettle
(37:41):
of fish. The only unfortunate thing there is ACC mental
health don't share notes. So when you've got one person
that's say, got a claim of acy, I went in.
Speaker 3 (37:53):
To see Yeah, Chris, just before we move away from
your substantive point, because I think it's very important to
focus on I share your concerns as mental health Minister.
What keeps me up at night is that too many
people are not getting the support in the time they need.
So you know, we've spent a bit of the show
(38:14):
with Tim and me talking about how good in New
Zealand we're having this conversation and quite rightly it's the
way forward. But what worries me is that as we've
opened up this conversation, we've really given people a lot
of faith and hope to now reach out and ask
for help. And my concern is that help is not
timely there. So that's why we've focused on access. It's
(38:35):
got to be about giving people the help they need
when they ask for it.
Speaker 4 (38:39):
And Matt, well, look, we've only got about unfortunately because
on this show we're slave to time. What is there
any one thing you'd like to see what changed at all,
or any suggestions.
Speaker 2 (38:49):
Because with you Pece, support workers are chat because they've
been there, they know what they're talking about, they've experienced it.
It can be challenging. I'm currently going through the process
of getting that, but honestly do not believe there's enough
in the public new health system. There is no much stuff,
(39:10):
There is not enough funding. The government. The government has
it because they have to and it's as a safe dismister.
But from my experience when I went for my chriss.
Speaker 4 (39:21):
I will have to jump in there because we are
up against the clock and I really but I really
appreciate your calling. And actually you did touch on the
PEA support stuff, which we actually will come back and
have a little that's going to say a little bit
about the PEA support stuff as well, and also we'll
give more information about very few texts just asking about
the GP assistance for mental health and services as well.
We'll be back in just to take it is seven
(39:42):
and a half minutes to five. Yes, welcome back. Look,
we've only got a minute togo with Minister of Mental
Health Matt Doocy. Just quickly. We have a few people
just want to get more information about accessing mental health
services through their GP. Matt, how do we do that?
Speaker 3 (39:53):
Yeah, just contact your GP. It's called the Access and
Choice Program. You can get referred to what's called hips
Health Improvement Practitioners. They're on site in GP practices and
you can refer directly to them. You don't need to
see your GP first.
Speaker 5 (40:08):
Good excellent hips health and health improvement practitioners.
Speaker 4 (40:12):
There we go. Ye that mentioned that is maybe a
code word to your GP practice and just quickly we're
going about thirty seconds.
Speaker 2 (40:19):
But the.
Speaker 4 (40:21):
Peer support side of think mental health.
Speaker 3 (40:23):
Yeah, it's something we've focused on and government really scaled
up the roles. A good story recently opened and Hunter
Plaza here in Auckland a mental health service and a
shopping mall. Not on the third floor. Pass the toilet's
right on the ground floor next to countdown. Can walk
in and talk to a lived experience peer support worker.
You know that's are open. The mental health conversation is
(40:44):
getting in New Zealand.
Speaker 4 (40:45):
Mate, Hey, thank you so much for coming on. Thanks
to catch you again. That wraps up the Health HUD
Smart Money. Shane Sally's with us next.
Speaker 1 (40:55):
For more from the Weekend Collective, listen live to news
Talks be weekends from three pm, or follow the podcast
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