Leighton Smith Podcast #324 - April 15th 2026 - Lars Schernikau

It is no exaggeration to say that New Zealand has a major energy crisis. 

Energy policy is at the base of everything. Energy is only about 6% to 8% of GDP but without energy, there is no GDP. 

Energy is the economy and "if you don’t have everything right we are running into big trouble in every single area.” 

If you think coal is bad and the Greens should be running the country, you need to be dispelled of that thought with Energy Economist Dr Lars Schernikau in this weeks interview.

And we visit The Mailroom with Mrs Producer.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:09):
You're listening to a podcast from news talks it B.
Follow this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio.
It's time for all the attitude, all the opinion, all
the information, all the debates of now. The Layton Smith
podcast is powered by news talks B.

Speaker 2 (00:27):
Welcome the podcast three hundred and twenty four for April fifteen,
twenty twenty six. Let me begin by saying that net
zero is garbage. It's employed as an anchor by those who,
for whatever their intention, contributes to controlling freedom. As you
will hear in our interview with Lars schernakaran en Z

(00:51):
is a fraudulent concept. Lars is what I consider to
be somewhat heroic, and we recorded under some difficult circumstances,
but there there's enough quality there to hang in. And
if you find it a little difficult at all, I
just recommend you keepin because it gets better as it
goes along. Here is another example of something hand in glove.

(01:15):
If you like Germany's chemical reckoning, how Europe is dismantling
its industrial core. And this is only three lines. Climate
zealotry and political blunders are collapsing Germany's chemical industry turning
a once global powerhouse into a caution retail t Lec Dosche.
I don't know whether you've heard of it. I hadn't

(01:36):
until this podcast came along. T Leac Doche shows how
this decline is reshaping Europe's industrial future. But there is
much of interest in the discussion that we have with Lars.
But before we get there, there are so many things
that I would have loved to have included in this

(01:57):
week's podcast. Here is just one of them, which I
will reduce from a page and a half to as
short as possible. Iran's digital surveillance machine is close to completion,
as reported by Wired. Governments don't build surveillance systems because

(02:17):
there is an actual need to watch seventy five million citizens.
They build them because power always seeks leverage over society.
It is not unique to Iran. This is the inevitable
endpoint of every state that believes it can manage dissent,
controlled information and pre empt opposition with technology rather than

(02:41):
address the real causes of social unrest. The regime has
massacred over forty thousand civilians over the past several weeks.
That is a staggering number of deaths. More than all
casualties in the Russia Ukraine war or Palestine Israel conflict.
But we're talking about a government slaughtering civilians here. The
regime plans spy on all citizens in real time to

(03:05):
prevent another uprising. The Islamic Revolutionary Guard Core owns or
is a partial owner of all telecomsystems in the country.
Removing Internet access was one of the very first measures
the regime took when protests emerged. The publication Wired describes
an integrated, constantly expanding digital control grid that is the

(03:28):
same model now being tried in Beijing, discussed in Brussels,
and quietly adopted everywhere that elites feel threatened by inconvenient
political movements or crisis driven instability. In Aram's case. The
Digital Nation Plan, as it's called, consolidates messaging, biometric trafficking,

(03:50):
traffic monitoring, and app control into a unified architecture that
can identify, categorize, and punish behavior. CCTV networks, facial recognition systems,
applications designed to capture or log private user messages, and
systems assessed seeing citizens lifestyle patterns, and behavior or profiles

(04:12):
collectively provide the Islamic Republic security agencies with the means
for broad and precise monitoring of the population. According to
an analyst from Holistic Resilience, they call it public health surveillance,
national security monitoring, AI, content moderation, or electoral integrity protection.

(04:35):
Now the goal centralized data index citizens and give the
state the power to monitor and respond to undesirable behavior.
We now see the West implementing measures under the guise
of securing children from online dangers. But that is simply
an acceptable excuse to monitor online activity. If you give

(04:58):
governments the ability to monitor every click, every message, every search,
and every comment, why would they not use it. Remember
the pandemic years when millions accepted unprecedented surveillance in the
name of public health. Mobile phone tracking, vaccine, passport apps,
location monitoring, QR codes were all justified by crisis Sesteria.

(05:23):
That crisis has passed, but the infrastructure remains. The same.
Phenomenon happened after nine to eleven and the ushering in
of the Patriot Act in America that paved the way
for intensified surveillance. The pursuit of surveillance power is not
confined to authoritarian regimes. Every government wants access to data
that allows it to predict and control outcomes. In Europe,

(05:47):
regulators demand safe platforms and compel private companies to report
harmful speech. In the United States, law enforcement agencies tap
into data streams for predictive policing. In Asia, social credit
systems tie digital behavior to real world penalties. If it

(06:08):
can be measured, it can be regulated. If it can
be regulated, it can be controlled. And finally, once you
accept that governments will always seek the maximum possible control
over citizens' lives, the real question becomes not whether this
power will be used, but how it will be used.

(06:29):
Who will decide the norms and what safeguards, if any exist.
Governments know with certainty that they can monitor the masses
through their digital footprints, and have begun to chip away
at our privacy, Integrating the state with our main medium
for communication, digital ideas, wallet, CBDC, all of the plans

(06:51):
in place will embolden the states with total power over
our lives. Now, I know that there are people around who,
probably plenty of them, who say that's just nonsense and
expand on that it's not. You've only got to pay
attention to other parts of the world to see how, when,
where it's going can it be stopped? How would you

(07:13):
know unless you try now after a short break. Lars
Schernekaer Buccolan is a natural oral vaccine in a tablet
form called bacterial late. It'll boost your natural protection against
bacterial infections in your chest and throat. A three day

(07:36):
course of seven Buckland tablets will help your body build
up to three months of immunity against bugs which cause
bacterial cold symptoms. So who can take buccolan well, the
whole family from two years of age and upwards. A
course of Buckelan tablets offers cost effective and safe protection
from colds and chills. Protection becomes effective a few days

(07:57):
after you take buccolan and lasts for up to three
months following the three day course. Buccolan can be taken
throughout the cold season, over winter or all the year round.
And remember Bucklan is not intended as an alternative to
influenza vaccination, but may be used along with the flu
vaccination for added protection. And keep in mind that millions
of doses have been taken by Kiwis for over fifty years.

(08:21):
Only available from your pharmacist. Always read the label and
users directed and see your doctor. If systems persist, farmer broker,
Auckland Layton Smith. Lars SCHERNEKAA is an energy economist, entrepreneur,

(08:42):
commodity trader and book author. He lives currently in Europe
and Asia. Previously, Lars worked at the Boston Consulting Group
in the US and in Germany. He is co founder,
shareholder and former supervisory board member of two German listed
commodity companies and founded worked for and advised a number

(09:03):
of other companies in the commodity, mining and energy sector worldwide.
He was educated at New York University and also in France.
He holds a doctoral degree in economics from the Berlin
University in Germany. Now, as well as all that, he
regularly speaks at major energy and commodity conferences and workshops
around the world. Lars advisors selected government institutions, banks, and

(09:28):
conglomerates on energy policy. He has a positive approach toward
critical thinking and the environment. Lars has been studying energy
commodities for the energy transition, as well as causes and
impacts of climate changes for over a decade. He's very
active on LinkedIn too, Apparently Finally, Lars is a member

(09:48):
of the International Association for Energy economics and writes regularly
on his blog on all topics around energy. Lars, it's
great to have you on the Latensmith podcast. Thank you.

Speaker 3 (10:01):
It's a pleasure to meet you, and thank you for
having me.

Speaker 4 (10:03):
Now.

Speaker 2 (10:04):
You're sitting in an airport in Bangkok. I believe so.
I hope the babies are crying up the other end.

Speaker 3 (10:13):
Let's hope.

Speaker 2 (10:14):
Indeed, I want to. I want to dive straight into
this pretty much because there is there's an awful lot
that we could get through if we're if we're lucky.
But you you wrote a book about three years ago.
You co authored it with with another with another academic
who whose name is also Smith, and it's called The

(10:40):
Unpopular Truth, The Unpopular Truth about Electricity and the Future
of Energy. What puts you to.

Speaker 5 (10:48):
This, Well, it's actually, you know what, in my work,
as you mentioned in Commodity Trading, we are we are.
We're working globally in Europe, Africa, America's Middle East, you know,
Indian sub continent Asia. I've been traveling a lot of
strain Asians, Venetians such as Pakistan and Bangladesh and the

(11:08):
Philippines and all these places where in African countries of course,
where I could see that people there consumer fraction of
the energy that we in the Western world consume, and
the question came to mind, where's the edge going to
come from?

Speaker 3 (11:21):
How is this going to work?

Speaker 5 (11:23):
And I started to think about a little bit more
about commodities and energy, particularly specific electricity and the future
of it and how it's going to come and of
course the so called Agi transition comes to mind first,
and I started to go into a little bit more detail,
and yeah, that's where we are.

Speaker 3 (11:40):
So the book kind of summarizes on my thinking.

Speaker 5 (11:43):
Was updated a couple of years ago, and it's not
available in seven languages, and it's really a start for me,
you know, about looking at from anc economic point of view,
from a raw material point of view, from Angie point
of view, about the future of where we're going.

Speaker 2 (12:01):
What is the conclusion you came to?

Speaker 3 (12:04):
The conclusion I came to is that.

Speaker 5 (12:07):
The so called transition towards wind and solar, let's call
it be a little bit nice, has issues. More specifically,
we need to think about the future of energy completely
different point of being, to start a different angle. I mean,
you think of where are we going to get this

(12:29):
energy from? And the future has to be energy dense,
has to be hugely energy efficient, and has to of
course has the least environmental impact. And of course I
look at what we have today, is what we may
have in the future, and what we're told the future

(12:49):
will be. And when you start to put the numbers together,
those pathways are not the same.

Speaker 2 (12:56):
For the non scientists. What is precisely energy dense?

Speaker 3 (13:03):
Well, there's two types of a density.

Speaker 5 (13:05):
One is the energy per unit of matters and one
of the AGI density per period of space. So if
you think about it, the solar energy is it's this
unlimited energy available to us. The problem is that there's
only very little energy per square meter reaching our planet

(13:25):
from the Sun, and that's low AG density. That needs
need to build a huge amount of infrastructure. You remember
all these huge fields of solar panels in order to
try to collect this so called free energy that's energy
density at clay.

Speaker 2 (13:39):
So when your approach through all this, did it take
courage to I think carriage is the right word. Did
it take courage to come out with what you decided
was the right path to be on.

Speaker 3 (13:58):
I don't know.

Speaker 5 (13:59):
Look, I've been lucky that in no way I've been independent,
and I don't have to report to you know, to
boards or to come companies, and I don't have to
be political correct and what I say, I can't say
what I think is right. I do want to, you know,
do this in a positive manner. But I you know,

(14:23):
there's very few people, if you think about, in the world,
that have the interest and time and possibility to think
about these aspects and to speak and right about that,
who can actually say what they think is right. There's
too many people in industry, in governments, in education who
have to be careful about what they say.

Speaker 3 (14:46):
And this gets me back to my origin.

Speaker 5 (14:49):
I grew up in East Germany, and sometimes it a
little bit feels like it like, you know, there's a
certain so called party line, and if you deviate from
the partline, you'll be in trouble in one way or another.
That's what it kind of feels like. Sometimes.

Speaker 2 (15:03):
How old were you when the world came down?

Speaker 5 (15:06):
I was seventeen, so relatively young, but it's still you know,
of course, it's you know, it made who I am.

Speaker 2 (15:15):
Well, speaking of making who you are? How did how
did just trace it for us? A little? You grew
up in a restricted educational area correct.

Speaker 5 (15:30):
Well respected of a certain astats are very open in others,
all right.

Speaker 2 (15:38):
I sat in a classroom in uh not in Moscow,
in Saint Petersburg once for for in a couple of
hours and watched the class, and it was obvious that
the class had been shall we say, trained to behave
in a certain way. When when there was a foreigner
who came to look see, did you struggle with any

(15:58):
of it? I mean, it's it's a little like a religion,
or it can be for a lot of people. Did
you struggle with.

Speaker 3 (16:06):
So? So?

Speaker 5 (16:07):
I did only I did not struggle in East journey.
I was convinced it was the right path in a way, yes,
religion is probably a good way to put it. That
you can think, okay, humanity will develop. The idea was
value will develop and we will not just worry about
material things and money, will actually do what is right.

Speaker 3 (16:26):
There was the idea. Of course, it was misused.

Speaker 5 (16:28):
By by leaders and it was human human kind is
not really honors and ready to go that way. But
I was at that time not fighting it. I was
convinced it's the right path. Of course I was young,
and later, of course you start to realize think they're
not so easy. But what I learned a lot of
very very good things and very positive things. And to

(16:49):
be honest, some of the human connections that you made
during the time, and the innovation, how you how you
deal with scarcity and all those things.

Speaker 3 (16:58):
This is what you know. Also, you know it makes.

Speaker 2 (17:00):
You the reviewer of the book right that The book's
final chapter is mostly a tease. The authors died have
a blueprint for how to get to the promised land
of sustainability beyond fossil fuels. They merely point in the direction.
The future, they say, lies in possibly a combination of
fusion or fission, solar, tidal, geothermal, or presently unknown energy sources.

(17:28):
It would likely harness the power of the nuclear force,
the power of our planetary system, and the energy from
within our planet. But they caution it will have very
little to do with today's wind and photovoltaie technologies due
to the physical limits of energy density and most importantly,

(17:49):
their intermittency. So was that frustrating, I mean, you've that's
a that's a very big field that you've left on
the last page.

Speaker 5 (18:01):
Well, look, the book is called EXECTI the NS what
an actricity in the future of energy, so yes, to
describe what electricity is and what it is not. And
of course I have some thinking about what the future
energy will be, because in my view it is clear
that long term we will have to find sources of

(18:24):
energy beyond current coal, oil and gas, which make up
about eighty five percent of our total energy today. So
we will have to find something else, not necessarily because
we don't have enough. I mean right now we probably
have call for a few thousand years, and we keep
finding more oil and gas. But actually I think we

(18:46):
need so much energy in the future that will need
something more efficient, more energy efficient, denser. And of course
the nuclear force is amazing in that sense, right And
what the sun does trying to mimic what how this
sun you know you want to call it creates that
nobody creates energy, but how the sun makes energy or
generate energy is amazing. And it is true that the

(19:08):
energy within our planet is vast and huge, and if
you find a way to harness that in a sustainable way,
in an efficient way, and that's the future. I just
promise you one thing. Wind and solar in its current
form are not part of the future. They cannot be
part of the future. So there's because they are so
dam energy inefficient at system level.

Speaker 3 (19:29):
And that's the key key point. People keep counting.

Speaker 5 (19:34):
Kilob hours and mega what hours, and how important and
how big the percentages of wind and solar. But you see,
electricity is not a product. Electricity is not a kilo
but hour. Electricity is a service. That means electricity available
at the time you need it. That means the kilo
but hour available twenty four seven, three sixty five. That

(19:56):
is what electricity is at the right frequency, at the
right current, at the right face, right optimized for the
grid because you're you're getting urges from the grid. And
in order to make wind and electricity, which is amazing
in many ways what I call it grid ready, you
need to have a huge amount of systems around it

(20:17):
to try to make it work. Short term storage, long
term storage, backup technology, transmission, infrastructure, grids, a huge amount
of overbuild. You have to overbuild dramatically your wind and
solar installation. When you count all of this together, you
start to see that in many parts of the world,
the energy required to build this entire system maybe higher

(20:40):
or similar to the energy your harvest from its system,
and that is energy in efficiency.

Speaker 2 (20:45):
You reckon who do you think is in front in
this race? Which country.

Speaker 3 (20:55):
Today? The US? So it depends on what you count
in front in front of what race in front of?
Doing it right in.

Speaker 2 (21:03):
Front of in the race in front to get to
the part of gold at the end.

Speaker 3 (21:10):
Yeah, So.

Speaker 5 (21:12):
The US right now appears to me and a good
path when it comes to energy policy. China has a
few issues, quite a few issues. India seems to be
on a good path as well, and Europe and Australia
are probably at the far end.

Speaker 3 (21:32):
And love, I guess as well.

Speaker 2 (21:37):
Talk to me about net zero?

Speaker 3 (21:40):
What about it?

Speaker 2 (21:42):
That's what I want from you.

Speaker 5 (21:45):
Well, look think about it. There's nothing that zero in
this world. Nothing right. The idea that electric car is
that zero. The idea is a wind turbine about solar
panels and the zero is just ludicrous. I mean, we
are supplying coal products into the solar industry in China.

(22:08):
It's not one single solar panel possible without coal. They
don't only require the carbon to reduce the silicon oxide
into silicon, but they also require electricity and high temperature
heat in China from coal power and all this transportation
involves and of course the steel, the aluminum, the glass.

(22:30):
I mean, it's ludicrous to think that we can build
something near zero, right, and however, it's not ludicrous to
think that we can be more energy efficient, sorry, more
environmentally efficient. I see that there's two efficiency, its economic
efficiency the environmental efficiency, and that zero in my view,

(22:51):
comes very much to the environmental efficiency. And again the
same way you have to look at energy systems at
system level, you have to look at environmental efficiency at
system level. That means you have to look at the
entire value chain and the entire system required. And when
I plaster yeah the world with solar panels and with
wind turbines, that then those square kilometers full of panels

(23:16):
and wind turbines have a negative impact on the environment,
a very negative impact. In fact, they warmed the biosphere.
Have you ever put your hand above or below a
solar panel? What do you feel is a cold or warm?
It's hot?

Speaker 3 (23:32):
You see.

Speaker 5 (23:33):
I mean, there's been studies by by very good institutions,
confirmed studies how large solar farms increase the temperature.

Speaker 3 (23:41):
The same is with with wind turbines. Large wind farms.

Speaker 5 (23:45):
By the way, I used to run myself personally wind
a small wind farm in Germany for many years, so
I mean three years, yeah, yes, yes, yes, so it's
it's incredible. How you know how, I don't know how
bias the whole conversation is towards one way. And again
I'm not against progress at all, not against progress, not

(24:08):
against progress at all. Right, I just thought that progress
would mean having the lights on right and wind and
solar reduce the stability and reliability of our grids to
an extent that things like Spain and April last year

(24:30):
happened or may happen again, and I foresee, unfortunately that
we will have blackouts, not scheduled load shedding, but blackouts
in Germany the next five years.

Speaker 2 (24:43):
Just so happens that twenty four hours ago, when we
were having a discussion about this interview, there was a
massive storm that passed through New Zealand. It was a sideline.
In fact, we were expected to get well. We got

(25:03):
off very lightly, shall we say, where we were in Auckland,
but in surrounding areas it was supposed to hit us
big time but it didn't. But in other parts of
the country, especially out near the coast and round rivers,
and what have you, massive flooding, all the usual things,
and people lost power. Of course, now if you're going

(25:25):
to get your if you're going to get your power
from from windmills and solar panels, then you're always going
to be subject to, you know, that sort of treatment
by the weather, as opposed to if you do it
the appropriate way. Would you agree, of course?

Speaker 3 (25:44):
Of course.

Speaker 5 (25:44):
Look, let's let's let's take a step back about energy, right.
So energy, of course is a lot of things.

Speaker 3 (25:51):
Yeah, and the.

Speaker 5 (25:52):
Total primary energy be as humans require, right, only about
forty of that energy goes into i call it making electricity.
Sixty percent goes into other things, right, transportation, heating, and
trustry requirements, those stamps. And this total energy that we
are we are we're requiring comes to over eighty eighty

(26:17):
five percent from coal, oil and gas. If you include
nuclear you at over ninety percent, right, and then if
you put in hydro you come on over ninety five percent.

Speaker 3 (26:25):
So you have to start thinking we are currently.

Speaker 5 (26:30):
I mean suggested to stop investing in coal, oil and
gas is eighty five percent of energy, and to start
putting money into wind and solar, which is currently three
four percent of our total energy. In fact, the investment
in solar last year has been higher than the total
combined investment in coal, oil and gas combined. I mean,
just think about the ludicrousness about how we are how

(26:51):
we are dividing up our financial.

Speaker 3 (26:54):
Resources, not to speak about our human resources.

Speaker 5 (26:57):
Right, So, I mean, what do you think is better
if I invest in newest, cleanest power plant technology and
replace old power plants that generate thirty five percent of
a totality in the world.

Speaker 3 (27:09):
You know, it just improves phially a one percent.

Speaker 5 (27:11):
But if I put up you know, I don't know
how many one hundred thousands of scurricular and sort of solar,
I mean, much better for the environment. It's very clear
we have to invest in our existing systems to make
them better, cleaner and more efficient. And once we have
found an alternative, it's true environmentally and economically sustainable alternative,
then we can start to get rid of it, reduce

(27:32):
our coal, oil and gaspar I have no problem with that.

Speaker 2 (27:36):
I have to do this off the top of my
head and rely on my memory, which is usually a
semi reliable at least. But there is there is a
bonfight going on in Britain at the moment in England
where there are plans approvals being given to build the
biggest but massive paddicts full of exactly what we're talking about.

(28:00):
This area is I think it's Lincolnshire. This area is
I believe ten times bigger than Hyde Park in London,
and the locals of course are objecting to it. It's
not underway yet, it's still it's still on the approval desk,

(28:21):
but it looks like it's going to get it. It's
going to be absolutely massive, and they're taking it from
from food growing addix.

Speaker 3 (28:31):
It's absolutely terrible. It's insiss absolutely terrible.

Speaker 5 (28:34):
I mean, you can go to China to some of
the mountains there you see mountain ranges that have been
converted into solar panel covered mountains, tree tops, animals. I mean,
just think about what this dust the environment. The biggest
problem is not only are your plastering the world, You're
increasing temperatures, you're reducing bio bio biomass, you're increasing actually

(28:54):
by biospheric life, but you generate it just as useless.
You see, power from solar panels and wind turbines is
literally useless without something else, and that's something else. It
is very complex. And very expensive, and it's never counted
in the cost And that's the funny thing. And I mean,

(29:19):
I'm actually just writing right now on my next next article,
cost of electricity in more detail, I'll give an example.
I'll actually summarize the more real costs of wind and
solar versus coal gas in Germany.

Speaker 3 (29:34):
And it's about coal. So you sola is about three
times more expensive.

Speaker 5 (29:38):
Than call gas and nuclear in Germany if you include
just a few of the real costs.

Speaker 2 (29:46):
Now you mentioned you mentioned coal for the first time
of five minutes ago, and I mentioned it a couple
of times since then. I should have struck on it myself.
But your background really started in coal, yes.

Speaker 5 (30:00):
Well, yeah, so after erectly after my stint in strategy consulting,
I did join the coal industry about twenty something years ago,
and I.

Speaker 3 (30:13):
Did write about a couple of books on it as well.

Speaker 5 (30:15):
And I thought, you know, before I joined, and my father,
my Way, has been in the commodity business also for
fifty years, and when I joined it before, I thought,
you know, who needs coal? Nobody needs cold coal this
last century, I thought twenty five years ago, and then
I started to realize not only the importance of coal,
but also the benefits of coal. It's an absolutely incredible commodity.

(30:41):
Yes it's black, Yes, your your hand gets dirty, right,
but it's literally the simplest, safest and lowest cost way
to generate electricity and to provide energy to our world.
That is why it was the base of the unustri revolution.
And people of course think that's last city.

Speaker 3 (31:00):
We be leave it anymore. Today they have something better.

Speaker 5 (31:01):
Yes we do have something that it's called nuclear, but
that nuclear is a bit more expensive than his other issues.
And I've written about nuclear as well, and I always
keep saying I am pro nuclear one hundred percent, but
give me all the nuclear you can get in the
next twenty five celenty years. Everything triple it, quadruple it,
and it still will not be enough. So logically, if

(31:24):
nuclear will not be enough, even the best case, then
you need something else. That's something else has to be
colon gas when you come to electricity, and now coal
and gas are not interchangeable. Gas is amazing, gas has
absolutely incredible characteristics, but gas a call not the same,

(31:45):
and coal is simpler on that average, far far cheaper.
And the current crisis in the Middle East is a
perfect example of that, right, I mean all this LLERG infrastructure.
I mean you have the Asian nations Bangladesh, Vietnam and
Thailand and even India, many countries trying okay, vivil reduse
or coal use will increase our LERNG input. Well, now

(32:08):
there's start thinking because LNG liqui financial gas requires again
a much more complex system, LiTi faction by transportation, regasification,
much more expensive, much more complex, and those systems and
those sources are much more geopolitically controlled.

Speaker 3 (32:28):
Coal is not CaAl is what I call geopolitically.

Speaker 5 (32:31):
Very democratic, right, I mean many many regions in the
world are very very endowed, very rich. And coal is simple.
You can throw it in your backyard, it doesn't explode nothing.
So there is a lot of advantages that coal has.
And if you want to clean up call it takes
what it takes money in this stent, and not that
much compared to wind and solar to clean it up.

(32:54):
One example, And have you been when was the first
time you went you were in China visiting China? So again,
when was the first time you visited China?

Speaker 2 (33:04):
The only time apart from apart from Hong Kong, of course,
it was ninety six, okay, so did you have it?

Speaker 3 (33:14):
Did you happen to go to Beijing? No, shack guy,
Shanghai okay.

Speaker 2 (33:20):
So if you had gone Shanghai and right out to
the right, out to the west. The name escapes me now,
but it's right out to the west, brilliant food, brilliant
food exactly.

Speaker 5 (33:33):
If you had gone to Beijing in the nineties, you
would have most likely, you know, been recommended to wear a.

Speaker 3 (33:39):
Face mask because of the pollution.

Speaker 5 (33:41):
Yeah, right, I mean, and if you go to Beijing today,
thirty years later, Beijing is one of the cleanest cities.
It's considered, I mean, and Beijing is unbelievable today, and
yet China has doubled it's called.

Speaker 3 (33:56):
Consumption in the same time. So what they do.

Speaker 5 (33:59):
They just install the newest col fired power technology in
the world, Like you can literally eat from a smokestack
of a new cold fired power stations are cleaner. So
so you see the the It's not only in Beijing.
By the way, the world has never been cleaner than
it is today. I mean, I shouldn't say never, but
at least in the past one hundred years, we've continuously

(34:21):
improved our world in terms of pollution. We've continued to
become wealthier and healthier despite this dramatic increase in energy consumption.

Speaker 3 (34:31):
And that's for me. The future of the future is
and to invest.

Speaker 5 (34:34):
Our technology to make it cleaner and more efficient, and
to and to just start thinking at system level.

Speaker 2 (34:41):
That's all all right, So let's Beijing make a comparison
for us on any place you like in Germany, Berlin?

Speaker 3 (34:53):
What about it?

Speaker 2 (34:53):
Well, China is clean, you can lead off it. What
about Berlin?

Speaker 3 (35:00):
Same? Yeah, real, I mean, look German, I mean, Germany
is very clean.

Speaker 5 (35:07):
And again, when you look at Berlin thirty forty years ago,
it was a lot of the same thing. Right, it
has improved, and again because of our industry activity is
much better and much here though, our field technology is
better than all these things. But look at the economy
of Beijing versus Bilin. It's a different story, right. I
mean Germany is in a downturn for several years now, right,

(35:33):
I mean the industrial industrial growth, energy consumption goes down,
heavy industry goes down, and it's not that pretty, right,
And you know, China and other other nations are becoming stronger.

Speaker 2 (35:51):
Talk to me about Germany and how it got into
the position that it's in. It was once the most
powerful country in Europe. It is no longer. I don't
know what replaced it, if anything, but it's still it's
still not a powerful country, and it has a great
deal to do, if not entirely with the path that

(36:14):
governments took with regard to power.

Speaker 3 (36:19):
Energy policy es. Yeah, absolutely so.

Speaker 5 (36:22):
Germany endeavored on the so called energy transition from twenty
five years ago maybe roughly has invested probably close to
a trillion I would say, if you tootal cost, probably
a trillion euros of taxpayers money. And Germany is today
with the country amongst the highest cost of power right

(36:44):
for industrial and aresidential use. And that has led to
a large chunk of companies either have left the country
or reduced investments in outsource.

Speaker 3 (36:58):
And they're invested into other countries.

Speaker 5 (37:01):
And yeah, it has made Germany week and that anti
policy of closing nuclear entirely and the proclaimed to call
exit in the I don't know by twenty thirty eight,
I think currently is the plan Germany goes down a

(37:22):
very very dark path. Germany has tripled quadrupled its installed
capacity using wind and solar, and the Prime Minister for
the Chancellor of Germany a couple of months ago said,
after having done all this, Germany has insufficient electricity generation capacity.

Speaker 3 (37:41):
You have to think about this. The Chancellor of Germany
in twenty.

Speaker 5 (37:44):
Twenty six says Germany is in electric generation capacity, which
is true after twenty five years of so called transition
and after having quadrupleed is installed capacity. I mean, what
better example do you need that when they sat that
all work. I mean, this is right there, this is
your perfect example. And the German Minister for the Economy

(38:04):
he said just last week or two weeks ago, that
that if a country doesn't consider the system cost, it
will destroy the country it tries to save. She literally
said that the first time ever that the German Minister
for the Economy and Climate, by the way, used the
word system cost. So suddenly people start waking up. There's

(38:28):
something going on there, and that something is a complete
and utter misunderstanding about how energy works. And that is
what I'm trying to basically proclaim or support in the
world to improve understanding how energy work and how it
doesn't work. Because we have industrial and political leaders who
do not have that education, do not have spent the

(38:49):
time to understand these things.

Speaker 2 (38:52):
It's fascinating to me because you know, I remember growing
up in my grandfather's fireplace and he'd throw a few
logs in and set a match to it, and we
were all set for the night. And that's the way
that it worked. And it was it was clean, it
wasn't you didn't have smoke in the house. And now
we have advanced in so many areas, and it's a

(39:15):
it's it's just very weird to me that we we
head off in some directions and don't bother about others,
or we don't we don't pay the right attention to
the ones that really matter.

Speaker 5 (39:28):
Yeah, I know, it's true. It's interesting. Look, I mean,
the reality will catch up. It has or is catching
up this journey already, right, And it has or will
catch up for the nation as well.

Speaker 3 (39:39):
By the way, China is a beautiful example.

Speaker 5 (39:42):
China has already today the same amount of wind and
solar installed capacity as as call in nuclear combined. Now,
what happens if China would entirely turn off its entire
wind and solar fleet, which is the same size as
the entire call and nuclear fleet.

Speaker 3 (39:59):
What happened? Nothing? I was about to say no, nothing,
it's just would be cheaper.

Speaker 5 (40:08):
So China is going down a path where it's actually
increases its own system costs to a point where it
will start having competitive issues. US is doing the other
way around. Vietnam is picking up from China. So people
don't see this, but China, driven by its over capacity

(40:34):
in manufacturing four solar panels, four batteries for editing vehicles,
they's been dumping those products that they haven't been able
to sell in the rest of the world onto their
own economy, and by that they're actually making their economy
less competible. It's an interesting subject. We can have a
whole you know, podcasting that itself. So this energy police.

(40:58):
Energy policy decisions have a significant impact, and sometimes they
are delayed and they end up in the system cost.
And by the way, the cost does not equal their price.
Just because electricity is cheap doesn't mean it's inexpensive, right,
someone still has to pay for it. So so and
it's it's I mean, energy policy is at the base

(41:20):
of everything. Energy is only about six seven eight percent
of global GDP, But without energy, there is no GDP. Right,
Energy is not just a portion of the economy. Energy
is the economy, and if we don't have energy right,
we are running into big troubles in every single area.
And the current conflict in the Middle East sees exactly

(41:41):
that it's not us doing something happens, some conflict is happening.
That conflict is disrupting a significant portion of energy supply,
in this case gas and oil. And you see the
plaguy consequences onto not only onto energy, but also onto fertilizers,
which is actually in the end is food, right, sulfur, hydrogen.
I mean, there's so many products which are relied depend

(42:03):
on going into even our computing industry.

Speaker 3 (42:06):
So energy is everything but energy. There's no data.

Speaker 5 (42:09):
I mean, have you ever seen a data center running
on wind? And sona, have you ever seen a data
center running on wind? And so not likely you will
never see what have you ever seen a hospital running
on wind?

Speaker 4 (42:19):
And no?

Speaker 2 (42:22):
I got I get you, I get your point. Why
is it that? Why is it that? See here we
are I'm taking a step backwards. Here we are down
in this part of the world, and we we live
in a certain style. We get we get told this
and that, and COVID came along and the country got ruined.
Because of the idiocy of the of the government of

(42:45):
the day, and people are unaware of practically everything that
you're saying. They're unaware of it. Now, why is that?
The ANSWER's education.

Speaker 3 (43:02):
It's education, absolutely.

Speaker 2 (43:04):
So You've got kids that go out, go out in
the friday, take the take the day off, of the
half day off on a Friday. I haven't seen it
this year, but and they go on on matches down
the street about about the about the climate, for instance,
and they think that they're saving the planet. What do
you say to them? What do you say to them?

Speaker 5 (43:27):
I have and I am continuously also presenting at high
schools and universities to try to educate younger people about
some of these system things. You see, The problem or
issue is that energy, especially energy, but only energy, has
been misused politically for far too long, right, I mean

(43:48):
there have been wars fought over energy for centuries. I
mean that's never about call, by the way, a little
bit a war, but called anyways. So the political aspect
of energy is a real issue. I personally don't care
much about politics, and but the fact is that the

(44:08):
mixture of energy policy or energy and energy issues, and
of course envirolently issues and politics is big. I mean,
how come? I mean I care about the environment. I
care that, you know, for our children they have a
good and clean future. Right Yeah, but I don't have
to vote for the Green Party, right and and I'm

(44:29):
thinking at system level what is happening? So look, I
can only young people. I can only ask them to think.
I can only ask them to think critically. I mean,
I grew up in an environment where thinking critically was
not supported in certain areas. In many area was very
much supportive, but certain was not supported. And it's not
good right if you grew up I'm not being allowed

(44:49):
or not being encouraged to think critically. It doesn't mean
to put everything down or to too bad now is everything?
It just means to think, does this make sense?

Speaker 2 (44:57):
Okay?

Speaker 3 (44:58):
What if this would happen?

Speaker 2 (44:59):
Yeah? But thinking critically was taught once upon a time
and then it stopped being taught. En mess in all
over the world, I venture, but certainly in the countries
that that we have down here. So kids grew up
with an inability to think critically. Who do you blame?

Speaker 3 (45:25):
I guess not.

Speaker 5 (45:25):
You know, I'm not a conspiracy guy. I don't believe
in no, no, no, let me finish, Let me finish.
I don't you see often you say that. Some people
say not often, but some people say this was all
designed by the West or the East, or China or whatever.
Someone came up with this idea of going green and
wind and solar, and and who to blame in the end,

(45:49):
it is it's all of us. It's all of us, right,
it's every single person about how you educate yourself and
how you educate other people, how you think. And of
course we are biased in our own in our own
way of thinking. You can blame every government you can,
you can blame every of us. Leader in Germany I
often say to the end Australists that that I speak
to that run small and medium sized companies that are

(46:12):
complaining about the high energy costs. I'm like, guys, you
are just as much to blame because you are the
one who ten years ago says, yes we will go green,
yes we'll see you two zero yes, yes, yes, yes,
yes we will do what the government says because you
didn't think critically, and now you have a problem. So
it's everyone in this and and but but the way

(46:33):
out is very simple. It's very very simple. Just stop
wint and soda. Stop wint and sola, stop it immediately.
That's the only solution. I mean not the only, but
it's the fastest, the trikest and lowest painful, lowest cost
solution to solve this problem.

Speaker 2 (46:50):
So we have we have an election coming up in
the at the end of the year and Australia, Australia
is having elections at the moment, not the country but
the states. And what I want to stay with New Zealand.

Speaker 3 (47:07):
Here we have.

Speaker 2 (47:09):
More more parties than we used to have, so that
there's no one you can directly no one party, or
you don't have two parties anymore, so you can't go
and attack one verbally and persuade them to do the
right thing. But there are a couple there's probably more,
but there are a couple of prominent politicians who want

(47:33):
to get rid of net zero. But a floor or
two up in the office building, someone's saying, bugger off,
you're not going to it's there, and it's staying there,
and we are going to meet our obligations for twenty
thirty and then twenty thirty plus. And the frustration of

(47:57):
it is that while there are people around who and
there are more and more people who are who are
latching on to the truth. I'm very pleased to say it,
but they're not enough to be able to convince other people,
and kids in particular, not to write for people who
want to have net zero.

Speaker 5 (48:21):
Look, I mean net zero is an interesting one. I mean,
think about the Paris Accord. First time in the history
of humankind did the entire world come together and agree
on something, at least in the paper. I mean, that's
actually a very positive thing, and it was actually an
environmental issue. It's hugely positive that the world comes together

(48:44):
to think of how we improve our environment and how
we protect our environment.

Speaker 3 (48:49):
It's hugely important.

Speaker 5 (48:52):
The problem is that net zero it's not only a
big mistake, it's also physically impossible. So even if you
think it was right, it's still impossible under any circumstance.
All you can do is just outsource your emissions to
someone else.

Speaker 3 (49:07):
But you never stop.

Speaker 5 (49:09):
And of course, the idea that we will save our
world by emitting less you two, which happens to also
be the basis of all life on earth, is a
little bit of a problem scientifically, but the fundamental idea
is not a bad one to try to really do
something good for our long term future environment.

Speaker 3 (49:29):
I'm all for that, but.

Speaker 5 (49:33):
That zero is again not only a mistake, it is
also physically impossible. Now if we continue going after something impossible,
if we say we're going to throw all the money
and then there's no limit to the money we throw
it in, and that's someone's money, or someone's money it
happens to be taxpayers money. If you're trying to go
after something impossible, your costs will continuously explentially increase. Actually,

(49:57):
so yes, you have to abandon that zero, but you
do not have to abandon environmental protection.

Speaker 4 (50:02):
Right.

Speaker 3 (50:03):
We just have to switch the narrative from net zero
to environmental protection.

Speaker 5 (50:08):
At system level globally, right, and you can do so
much good and the money that you waste on trying
to I mean, has has anyone ever calculated the temperature
decrease in twenty one hundred from any of these net
zero activities? Again, there's a temperature decrease in twenty one

(50:30):
hundred and seventy five years if we meet all our
NA zero targets. That temperature decrease, I don't know. It's
very very very very very small hardly able to man
to to.

Speaker 3 (50:41):
Measure.

Speaker 5 (50:42):
And now let's assume you're successful, and let's assume the
models that calculate this temperatures are correct, which they are
not probably, but lets assume they are correct. Now, do
you believe that by by use the temperature by zero
point zero whatever degrees and twenty one hundred will actually
change any bad weather today when the next ten year
and twenty years. I mean, it's physically impossible. I mean,
there's so many questions in this entire chain of argument.

(51:05):
But again, even if the argument were all correct, this
is impossible. We don't have technology there when it's not
that zero. Evs are not that zero, and keep passion
not sitting that zero.

Speaker 3 (51:18):
They're not.

Speaker 5 (51:21):
And I think when people start to realize that, maybe
maybe than they're more open to be a little bit
more tolerant of having a more open approach, critical approach
and not as extreme approach.

Speaker 3 (51:37):
To what the future will look like.

Speaker 5 (51:39):
The one key thing is think critically about the system
required to provide the energy that you're using every day.
Do not count kilo about ours, but count what it
takes to provide the kilo about hours twenty four seven,
three sixty five. Then you start to already open up

(52:00):
your mind and then take a next step think about
the raw materials and energy required to build that system,
and then you can start to say what is environmentally
friendly to reduce the energy and a rometer is required
to build it system. That should be our goal. Right
now we're doing exacut the opposite a by going wind,
and so I have.

Speaker 2 (52:20):
A question for you. We are building more and more
of the alternatives, and the more we build, the higher
the cost of power goes. It keeps going up. Can
you explain why?

Speaker 3 (52:38):
Yeah, of course there's two things.

Speaker 5 (52:43):
The value of an additional kilo what wind and solar
reduces the more wind and solar. You have why because
at sunshine' at the same time, the wind blows at
the same time more or less roughly.

Speaker 3 (52:53):
And this has been proven in Germany.

Speaker 5 (52:55):
You can see that actually a kil of what hour
produced by solar now is only fifty percent worth of
the average key about our producing Germany, The same happens
in New Zealand or in Australia.

Speaker 3 (53:06):
That's number one. Number two the systems required to incorporate, the.

Speaker 5 (53:11):
Systems required to make that additional wind and solar power
usable becomes more and more expensive. And number three the
backup the gas fire core fire nuclear fire power station,
which is now utilized less because you have wind and
solar coming and the cost will go up. So obviously
the cost has to increase, and effect it will increase exponentially.

(53:32):
The more you have, the more expensive. It's not just
a straight line, actually expensive curve. And again in my
in my article in my blog the Unpopular Tooth Blog,
in two weeks, I'll write exactly on this and I'll
explain and I'll prove to you why that is the case.
I'll explain that the numbers, why that is. It's it's
it's it's simple. I mean, it's simple, but not as
simple as some people like to like to hear.

Speaker 2 (53:54):
Question again, last one, uh in Germany. Now, let's let's
look at here. If you if you're putting in power
into new developments out in the country or whatever, who
pays for it? Who pays for the installation of ith
the user?

Speaker 3 (54:13):
Well probably it takes pair well the users themselves or
did they pay for the Kiva?

Speaker 2 (54:22):
Yes, well they kept for the installation of the of
the wires or what you know, whatever they're they're sending
it through. So you're developing a you're developing an acre
or two of land into housing, you you have to
pay for it. How does it work in Germany?

Speaker 5 (54:44):
I don't know everything about it, but as far as
I understand that the the the infrastructure, the energy infrastructure
is built by large companies under government guidance, and then
all the costs are basically paid by someone. They tried
to be covered by the by the tariffs, the kilban

(55:04):
our prices, or the government pays for it in one
way or another. No, but the transmission infrastructure is owned
by not by the people. Don't pay for transivision. I
don't pay if a if a power line has to
be built to my house, I don't pay for that.
I pay for the key, what hours I use it,
I don't pay for the power line.

Speaker 2 (55:25):
So how do you feel about how do you what
do you feel for people in this part of the
world to do pay for it?

Speaker 5 (55:33):
That's like a pity No, no, no, that's a whole
different subject, is like how should our legacy systems be
run and who should run it?

Speaker 3 (55:42):
I don't know if I feel pity. It's it's just
a different way of doing it.

Speaker 5 (55:45):
And I guess it's kind of not fair because I
pay for not pay for everything, because I don't pay
for the power plant, but I pay for transision lines.
I mean, sometimes you have to pay for transmision lines
to some extent. I think in Germany, I also pay
for the last you know, the last one hundred meters
or fifty meters or whatever.

Speaker 3 (56:02):
I don't know.

Speaker 5 (56:03):
That's that's a tough question, and I don't think I
feel pity for damages. That's the way it is, and
there's no easy way to fix it. All I can
say is that electricity is a fundamental service which I
do believe should be in government hand. It should not
be in private hand. That's a personal but that's a
whole different subject.

Speaker 3 (56:20):
Again. We can talk another blog, on another another podcast.

Speaker 2 (56:24):
Well, well you will you make a return.

Speaker 3 (56:28):
I am happy to thank you very much and I'm having.

Speaker 2 (56:30):
I'm heavy to have you back, so Lars, great talking
with you. Thank you, and we'll be in touch.

Speaker 3 (56:40):
Very much.

Speaker 5 (56:40):
Thank you as well. I really appreciate you taking the time,
and yes I can. Every time someone buys the book,
I get one coffee, So please please help me, help me.
By a couple of people think critical about the unpopulated
throughth Let's just do in Future of Energy, I do
write about I do write about it on a regular
basis and various articles on my website that's for free.

Speaker 2 (57:00):
Let's let's just before we go, let's talk about the blog.
I was unaware of it until about two days ago.
It is most impressive.

Speaker 3 (57:09):
Thank you. I appreciate that I've come at various subjects
on it.

Speaker 2 (57:13):
And I'm serious when I when I hit on it
and I looked at it, not a wow. So ah,
and and and the book is is available, and I've
got my copy. It's now it's now marked with green.

Speaker 5 (57:28):
M.

Speaker 3 (57:29):
Thank you. Yeah.

Speaker 5 (57:29):
So it's now in seven languages, so it's also good.
I'll have a couple more languages coming up. And it's
an important subject to your education. Is important and and
this is a topic which is fundamentally acrucial for our
entire existence. So I hope that people do spend more
time on this subject. And thank you for you yourself
for all the same time on it and also trying
to get the message across.

Speaker 2 (57:50):
Pleasure.

Speaker 3 (57:51):
Thanks, thank you, Bye bye.

Speaker 4 (58:00):
M.

Speaker 2 (58:11):
I went to the mail room for podcast number three
hundred and twenty four missus producer. I know you're well.
Hi late, I'm great, Thank you.

Speaker 5 (58:19):
How are you?

Speaker 2 (58:19):
I'm just getting over things. Oh no, I'm fine. We've
got something to to share with you in the mail
room today, making it a little different, but it's a
reflection on something that took place last week. You may
be able to guess for yourself, but we'll get there
in a few minutes.

Speaker 3 (58:39):
What have you got?

Speaker 6 (58:40):
Laden Neil says very interesting comments today from George Friedman,
in particular the explanation of why Trump started this war
and the lead up process to it. This is not
being communicated effectively. Yes, we all know Trump is a
dickhead sometimes, but he's way smarter than a lot of
self important people think he is. I do wonder why

(59:01):
such a large part of our society is either not
heard or understood the absolute threat AARAN is to the
non Islamic war world. The regime prefer us all to
be exterminated somehow. Kiwis need to be made acutely aware
that if Trump fails, life as we know it will
be more probably than not changing dramatically in the future

(59:23):
from the threat or use of nuclear arms in the
hands of Iran. The source of most terrorist actions taken
the world over.

Speaker 3 (59:31):
And that's from.

Speaker 2 (59:32):
Neil, Neil, how come you get it? And so many
other people in this world, particularly in New Zealand, are
the place that matters. Don't get it, can't get it,
can't grasp it. It's dumbfounding now from bread and now
this is interesting.

Speaker 3 (59:51):
I think.

Speaker 2 (59:53):
New Zealand is a country at war with itself. With
the earliest pioneers and traders in the seventeen hundreds, New
Zealand's evolutionary journey to nation toward began. The New Zealand
Islands became an independent British colony in their own right
teen forty one, and went on to become the Nation
of New Zealand, governed in the collective good by its citizens.

(01:00:17):
A point of divergence occurred in nineteen seventy four to
seventy five with the misappropriation, reinterpretation, and repurposing of the
historic eighteen forty Treaty, a historic document never intended for legislation.
New Zealand has been at war with itself ever since,

(01:00:37):
with increasingly pronounced consequences. New Zealand was once governed as
a collective citizenry with shared inalienable rights and values irrespective
of race, for the common good of the nation. Society
has since been increasingly fractured and segregated. The shadows of
times long past have descended on the nation. Race EWI

(01:01:01):
now dominates all citizens, governance, institutions, and society, subverting the
rights of all citizens. No nation at war with itself
can prosper who said that, far from resolving a small
number of outstanding issues of the day in New Zealand
has instead cannibalized itself, the costs and consequences thereof more

(01:01:24):
than the country can bear.

Speaker 5 (01:01:28):
See.

Speaker 2 (01:01:29):
That's gloomy, as isn't it. Anyway, It's very well written
and very well put together. It's also gone by the
way to a number of other people I see from Brett,
but well done.

Speaker 6 (01:01:41):
Late And this is from Ken and he's talking about
the George Friedman interview, the latest one another excellent commentary,
he says, and how we are well served by having
access to your podcasts. Contrasts the rubbish we see each
night on television news, with reporters regurgitating comments and information
from other ill informed reporters and equally other news media.

(01:02:06):
And contrast then with I use Australia Bolt who has
creditable interviews from quality informed people such as retired General
Jack Keene and others. And then Ken goes on to
say you must continue in capitals with your podcasts.

Speaker 2 (01:02:25):
That was very nice of it, Thank you, Ken. This
is one out of the box too, from Susan. Susan
has been listening for ever and she's highly qualified and
highly intelligent. She says, I just cannot get the Louise

(01:02:45):
Clegg episode to play on iHeart, I restarted my phone,
tried it on multiple days, but it simply will not play.
I've tried multiple laptops on different networks too, but no joy.
Have you had other listeners say that they can't access it?
Or am I just special? Susan? I referred this to

(01:03:07):
the powers that in the technology department. I don't know
whether you've whether you've got it rolling now, but that's
that's the way we handle things these days. So let
me know how you've gone now is if anybody else
has had the same experience, or if you do have trouble,
then drop me a note because it's the quickest success

(01:03:29):
to getting it getting it repaired now, missus producer, take
it from here.

Speaker 6 (01:03:36):
Late and we had a fantastic end of last week
where you were invested with your m n ZM at
Government House and it was a really really special morning,
wasn't it. We had weathers, two of our close friends
and two of our children. Out of the four, two

(01:03:58):
of the others unfortunately are in London. But it was
just the most special morning, beautiful day, fantastic people there.
Every person was just the most helpful, just really overflowing
with good vibes.

Speaker 2 (01:04:15):
Basically it was amazing. Everybody was saying the same thing.
I mean at every table there were eight people getting
getting their gong as you might say, which I don't
like anyway as a saying, but getting their award and
or their honor. And each person was allowed five guests,

(01:04:39):
and so there were eight tables and everybody was everybody
was smiling. The staff at that place at Government House sensational.
But everyone was friendly. And you've not met people before,
you don't know who they are really, and the next
thing you know you're involved in a conversation with them,
as we will discover at the end of this At

(01:05:02):
the end of this little.

Speaker 6 (01:05:04):
Well, yes, you know, meeting listening to the sort of
potted history of some of these people getting their awards
really made you feel so proud to be a New Zealander.
You know, people had put their life, their lives into
amazing achievements that you would never read about or hear about.

(01:05:27):
So that was the special thing, wasn't it.

Speaker 3 (01:05:29):
It was?

Speaker 6 (01:05:30):
Anyway, I pinched your phone at one stage. We just
thought this would be a cute idea and we did
a little bit of a recording and I asked you
how you thought it went.

Speaker 2 (01:05:41):
I think it went very well. And you know who
was responsible for that, the Governor General.

Speaker 4 (01:05:46):
And why was that?

Speaker 2 (01:05:47):
She's such an open, friendly, relaxed, attentive individual.

Speaker 6 (01:05:57):
Yeah, she certainly was. Wasn't she very chatty to all
the recipients.

Speaker 2 (01:06:01):
She wanted to know all about radio? And did I
miss it? And I said occasionally, And I know you
were a.

Speaker 6 (01:06:09):
Little bit nervous.

Speaker 4 (01:06:11):
It was quite interesting to see the man who never
gets nervous a little bit sort of worried about the event.

Speaker 2 (01:06:18):
Well it was my hair.

Speaker 4 (01:06:22):
Well, your family and your extended family in London and
in the States and your friends are so proud of you, Laton.
We've been waiting excitedly for this day and you deserve
every moment of it.

Speaker 2 (01:06:38):
On my right hand side, I've got my oldest son.
So number two was in London and was so frustrated
not being good. But Charles, I said, proud of your
father said.

Speaker 4 (01:06:49):
Oh maybe, sweet, it's going to be a long day.
We love your lots, Layton and congratulations. Oh and have
you wedding anniversary.

Speaker 2 (01:07:04):
Number fourteen today? What an amazing And you want to
know something, The weather is exactly the same as it
was that the day that we got married. It is
and here's to another now before we go some rectification

(01:07:39):
and some information. We'll start with the latter first. The
Unpopular Blog is the name of Lars's site, The Unpopular Blog.
Have a look at it a S A P. Because
it's it's just such a such an excellent collection of

(01:08:02):
important information, so you'll find that very easily. Then there
is the story that I was trying to tell off
the top of my head during the interview with Lars,
and I have now got the full story in my hand.
I was pretty right actually with most of it. But

(01:08:22):
here is how it reads. Ed Milliband has approved Britain's
biggest solar farm, despite objections from nearby residents. Who have
likened it to Chernobyl. The spring Well solar Farm in
Lincolnshire will have a capacity of eight hundred megawatts, enough
power enough to power some one hundred eighty thousand homes

(01:08:46):
a year, according to the government. Now this was published
April nine, and it was released those figures were released
the day or so before. The development, proposed by EDF
and Luminous Energy, is the twenty fifth large solar farm
approved by Labor since twenty twenty four, using planning powers

(01:09:07):
that allow men to overrule communities when a project is
deemed nationally significant. That's how con your audience, Just fast
ruling anyway, It's proved divisive in Lincolnshire, where residents turned
out in large numbers to object to the plans at
various public hearings. It will cover you ready, seven square

(01:09:32):
miles of farmland in solar panels, seven square miles at
area ten times I got that right, ten times greater
than London's Hyde Park, and it will affect ten local
villages and thousands of residents. Residents claim the loss of
prime farmland and the effect on communities was too high

(01:09:54):
a price to pay for the green energy the project
would provide local politicians had also accused Midllerband, the Energy Secretary,
of having made up his mind already despite fears the
scheme would change the very nature of Lincolnshire. In twenty
twenty four, Labour scrapped planning rules that blocked the construction

(01:10:15):
of new solar farms on food producing land. Mister Milliband
also designated large solar and wind farms as nationally significant
schemes that planners should approve by default. The community is
so concerned about this, everyone's against it, apart from those
who will profit. We wouldn't object to plans for a

(01:10:36):
couple of one hundred acres, but this is bast It
will be an industrialized complex like Chernobyl. People will go
for a drive, they will see nothing but panels. It's
ridiculously outrageous and it only goes to show that there
are many, many, well, it indicates that there are many, many,
really stupid people in positions of fur of power. And

(01:11:02):
I can only suggest to you that this country is
in a similar category to a smaller, more extent. Shall
we say now, just to repeat the title of Lars
Schernekau's book, it is the Unpopular Truth, The unpopular truth
about electricity and the future of energy. From the discussion

(01:11:23):
we had, you could tell that this man is highly
talented in his areas of speciality and probably beyond. The
book is it's fairly heavy going, but if you are
into the subject, you'll find it one of the most
useful books that you could possibly have. So that takes
us out for Podcasts number three hundred and twenty four.

(01:11:47):
If you'd like to write, Latent at newstalks ab dot
co dot enz or Carolyn at newstalks ab dot co
dot enz love your mail, keep it coming please, and
we shall return with podcasts three hundred and twenty five
in a few days time. So until then, as always,
thank you for listening and we shall talk soon. Mm hmmmmmmmmm.

Speaker 1 (01:12:15):
Thank you for more from News Talks at b Listen
live on air or online, and keep our shows with
you wherever you go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio.