From Chaos to Clarity: A Lifetime Battle with Addiction and the Road to Recovery

Hosted by psychotherapist Kyle MacDonald alongside addiction specialist Suzy Morrison, this weeks episode of The Nutters Club explored how early life experiences can shape later struggles. Andrea recounted a childhood marked by instability, frequent moves, and shifting family dynamics, attending 13 different primary schools. While she developed humour as a coping mechanism and found some stability in her teenage years, tensions at home and disrupted opportunities contributed to a growing sense of dislocation.

Her substance use began early, with alcohol becoming a central part of her life by her mid-teens. What started as social drinking quickly escalated into habitual use, often to blackout. As Andrea entered adulthood, she pursued creative ambitions in theatre, moving between New Zealand, Australia, and Europe. Despite periods of professional success including joining a theatre company and later studying mime in Paris, addiction increasingly took hold.

Her time overseas was marked by heavy alcohol use, cannabis, and eventually heroin addiction, which she described as an immediate and powerful dependency. While she achieved milestones, including performing and travelling, substance use undermined her stability and derailed opportunities. A traumatic assault in her late teens further compounded her reliance on drugs and alcohol.

Andrea’s addiction persisted into her 30s, even as she became a mother. She described years of functioning addiction, maintaining aspects of daily life while drinking heavily and using substances intermittently. It was not until her late 30s and early 40s, after repeated warnings from others and mounting personal consequences, that she began to recognise the severity of her situation.

Her turning point came when her family threatened to remove her son from her care. This moment, combined with seeing her former partner successfully in recovery, prompted her to seek help. Andrea entered detox and committed to a four-and-a-half-month rehabilitation programme, describing the experience as both confronting and transformative.

Post-rehabilitation challenges included shifting addictive behaviours, including gambling, highlighting the persistent nature of addiction. However, sustained recovery was achieved through ongoing support systems, particularly 12-step programmes and community connection.

Now nearly 30 years sober, Andrea describes her life as “beyond my wildest dreams,” with a repaired relationship with her son and a successful career behind her. Her story underscores a key message that while addiction can be enduring and multifaceted, recovery is possible with support, commitment, and connection.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:08):
You're listening to a podcast from News Talk ZEDB. Follow
this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio.

Speaker 2 (00:20):
Greetings and welcome. I'm Hamish Williams, and you're listening to
the podcast version of The Nutters Club, a radio show
about mental health broadcast weekly on News Talk zb. Each
week we talk with people about their mental health experiences
and the hope that it might help you with your own.
The show is broadcast live on Sunday nights on Newstalks

(00:42):
ZB right across New Zealand and around the world. On
this week's show, host and psychotherapist Carl McDonald was joined
by addiction specialist Susie Morrison and our guest Andrea. Beginning
with the disrupted childhood as a young adult, Andrea developed
a heavy alcohol use that escalated into drug use alongside

(01:03):
a chaotic and at times exciting lifestyle overseas. Despite achieving
parts of her creative ambitions, addiction increasingly undermined her opportunities.
She shares how she found a way through addiction to
live a life with meaning and purpose. Let us know

(01:23):
what you learned from our chat with Andrea on any
of our social media platforms. Just search for the Nutters Club,
Enz and come and join over one hundred and forty
one thousand fellow nutters. Let's get into this week's episode.

Speaker 3 (01:37):
Our guest tonight is Andrea and she's in the Oakland
studio with us. Welcome along, Andrea, Thanks for having me. Yeah, welcome,
lovely to have you. Let's get started with, as we
always do in the Nutters Club, where were you born?
Where you're from?

Speaker 4 (01:53):
I was born in tom re Nui letch is in
the king Country, nice played down on the North Island.
I was only there for a very short time, and
then I went to live with my mother in Wellington
with her mother and her two sisters.

Speaker 3 (02:10):
Okay, yeah, and what was that? Do you remember that move?
Was it?

Speaker 5 (02:13):
You?

Speaker 3 (02:13):
Pretty good?

Speaker 4 (02:14):
I don't remember I as a tiny baby at the time,
but I do remember aspects of being completely spoilt, of course,
by living in a house with four doting people women
and being quite spoilt.

Speaker 3 (02:28):
Right, Ye, so Wellington is pretty much the home that
you remember growing up.

Speaker 4 (02:32):
No, No, because, as luck would have it, my mother
then got married to my father, long story, and we
went to live back in Telmoranui again.

Speaker 3 (02:45):
Okay, yeah, right, so they just they did the normal things,
just a non the normal order.

Speaker 4 (02:50):
That's right, Yeah, right, it's quite unusual for nineteen fifty three.

Speaker 3 (02:53):
It would have been in those days. Yeah. What was
what was school an early childhood like for you? What
were your memories like?

Speaker 4 (03:02):
I went to about thirteen different primary schools because my
parents moved around a lot. My father was a lady's hairdresser,
and he'd sort of buy a business and maybe that
would fall apart, and then he'd buy another business. So
I spent a lot of time with the chemical smell

(03:22):
of perming lotion in my nostrils, and I lived sort
of either above or beside hairdressing salons. And because my
grandmother wanted me to be brought up Catholic, I got
to go to when we moved, I'd go to a
public school first, and then i'd change and then they'd

(03:43):
send me to a Catholic school. So that's why I
fitted in thirteen different primary schools in that very short
period of time.

Speaker 3 (03:50):
What was that like? And then I imagine it might
have been pretty disruptive that many changes.

Speaker 4 (03:54):
Well, it's yeah. I mean I became a comic, I think,
and that came in handy in later years because when
you're always a new girl, you know, like all those
other kids had established friend ships quite early on, you know,
because they'd gone to the same kindergarten, same school, and
then I just sort of turn up out of the

(04:15):
blue and be the new kid, always the new kid.
So I used comedy as a way of making friends
or making people laugh or whatever.

Speaker 3 (04:24):
As a way to fit in. Yeah, did your parents
move around because there were business problems or I mean,
was it just that they had sort of itchy feet?

Speaker 4 (04:31):
My mother had very itchy feet. She was never kind
of like she'd think once we got there, we'd be fine,
and then she decided, no, I don't like it here.
We want to go and live over here on the
North Shore, or we want to go back to tom
Renui to live for a little while. And you know,
that was the sort of she was the driving force
towards that, that continual kind of not quite being right

(04:54):
where we were.

Speaker 3 (04:55):
She wasn't very comfortable in herself. No, perhaps, Yeah, what
was what was your journey through school? Like as you
went into high school? Did you have longer periods at
one school?

Speaker 4 (05:06):
Once I got to secondary school, I went to one
school all the time from Form two right through to
the sixth form, and they were those sort of happiest
days of my childhood.

Speaker 6 (05:15):
Really.

Speaker 4 (05:15):
I made some real friends, some of whom I'm still
mates with today, and I sort of, you know, I
got to to find a persona for myself that I
was happy.

Speaker 3 (05:28):
With, happier with. Yeah, what was that PERSONA.

Speaker 4 (05:31):
Sort of slightly naughty, you know, I enjoyed being. One
of the naughtiest things I did at Carmel College was
I went up onto the roof of Carmel College when
we were all playing baseball, and I pretended to be
the statue in the domain, you know, the one that's

(05:53):
standing on one foot, and all of the kids were
just falling about laughing, and you know, that's my favorite thing.
But the nuns were not happy.

Speaker 3 (06:02):
I can imagine, Yeah, yeah, did you get in trouble?
I got in trouble, right, And so again it sounds
like the humor came to the fore. Were you happy
in your teenages?

Speaker 4 (06:16):
Yes, I was. I was very happy at school. I
was quite a high achiever. I read a lot. I
really didn't like going home very much because there would
always be sort of chores or altercations with my mother,
my relationship with my mother sort of got worse as
I got older. I was sort of my father's the

(06:39):
apple of his eye, really, but he wasn't really supposed
to show it too much because that would turn my
mother into it, you know, into a jealous rage. So
it was tricky, tricky at it.

Speaker 3 (06:52):
Was the humor kind of a protection mechanism at school?
Was it a way to sort of hide as well
as a way to make people laugh?

Speaker 4 (06:58):
Do you think I just enjoyed an audience?

Speaker 3 (07:01):
Right? Okay? Yeah? How do you get on with your siblings?

Speaker 5 (07:05):
Ah?

Speaker 4 (07:06):
They're beautiful six and seven years younger than me, and boys,
and I was sort of like the surrogate mother to them.
And you know they're still they're lovely growing up men today.

Speaker 3 (07:20):
Nice.

Speaker 4 (07:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (07:21):
Yeah. And how did this relationship with your parents sort
of play out as you got older and started to
think about going out into the world.

Speaker 4 (07:30):
Ah, well, when I was sixteen, they took me back
to tom Ra Nui to live. It took me away
from school and I hated that, hated.

Speaker 3 (07:39):
Being in quite a shift from the shore.

Speaker 4 (07:41):
Yeah, And I was just starting to kind of I
was going to a drama teacher and I was just
starting to kind of think about moving into using theater
as kind of more of maybe a profession. So taking
me down to tolman Nui to live was kind of

(08:02):
it felt like the end of that end of everything. Really.

Speaker 3 (08:06):
Yeah, well, with all due respect to Tom, I don't
imagine it has a thriving theater, so it could be wrong, but.

Speaker 4 (08:13):
It does have a very nice amateur theater, a lovely society,
and I did bury myself in that.

Speaker 5 (08:20):
You know.

Speaker 4 (08:20):
They probably did three plays a year, and I got
to be an ojenoue. Most of the people were about
I thought they were very ancient at the time, but
they were sort of thirty forty five and I was
sixteen seventeen, and so I got to play the Odjenou
and I got to wander around in a skimping negligees

(08:42):
for one play that we had, And yeah, I mean
that was sort of possibly my saving grace. I had
a job in the Maori and Island Affairs department as
a sort of a count's clerk, and that's when I
started drinking quite a lot. I drink in the weekends

(09:06):
and after work. I don't know how I got away
with it. They had a snug at the tom Renu
Hotel and only women were women were allowed to go
in there.

Speaker 3 (09:17):
I have a delightfully old fashioned How old were you
when you started drinking?

Speaker 5 (09:21):
Six?

Speaker 4 (09:21):
Well, I was thirteen when I had my first drink,
But when I went down to tom Renui, I sort
of started to take it seriously.

Speaker 3 (09:28):
Right, Okay, you were saying that there was still a
ladies bard.

Speaker 4 (09:32):
At the Tomui Hotel.

Speaker 3 (09:34):
Yeah, I mean for people who might be a little younger.
I mean, was there just no idea requirements in those days?
Could you just sort of get into a pub?

Speaker 4 (09:42):
Well, that's that's what I you know, I think when
I think about it now, I think, God, I didn't
look old for my age, I don't think. But there
was sort of a I don't know, there was just
sort of like, oh well jess A kellnd oh well
my anonymity. Yeah, so what's just allowed?

Speaker 3 (10:02):
What was you really drinking?

Speaker 5 (10:04):
Like?

Speaker 3 (10:04):
Was it something that you took to fairly enthusiastically or.

Speaker 4 (10:08):
Yes, you could say that yes, yeah, one was never enough.

Speaker 5 (10:13):
I just.

Speaker 4 (10:16):
Drank to blackout most times that I drank, and I
didn't think anything of it?

Speaker 3 (10:21):
Right? Was that because you didn't think anything of it?
Because that was how other people around you were drinking or.

Speaker 4 (10:26):
Everybody around me drank right the way I drank.

Speaker 3 (10:28):
So it just felt normal. Yeah, yeah, And how was
your theater? Was it a career, was it a was
it a hobby? I mean, how did that develop for you?

Speaker 4 (10:39):
Well, I'd always wanted to be an actor, and the
repertory Society I just saw as a sort of a
this is what I'm doing because this is where I'm stuck,
and so I'll just make the best of a bad
job as it were. And the people were lovely, you know,
they really were. And you know, the costumes were great,

(11:00):
and the set was as good as it could be.
And you know, the people that were in the place
were pretty dedicated. They were you know, they were in
every play that there was. Gun there was this the
guy who was the chemist was Wally Carroll was his name.

(11:20):
And he always played the leads right that he was.
He was a very safe kind of guy to play
the leads.

Speaker 7 (11:27):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (11:27):
He was funny as a fight, about four foot nine
inches tall, and you know, people just suspended their belief
and thought that he was, you know, a good looking,
handsome man.

Speaker 3 (11:40):
Well it was up on the stage too, right, made
him look taller. Maybe it was alcohol part of the
amateur theater saying.

Speaker 4 (11:47):
Very much so not not while you went on stage,
everybody was straight and there. But afterwards there were parties,
you know, parties because we'd had a good show, parties
because we had a bad show, end of season parties,
first night parties, any excuse for a party.

Speaker 3 (12:03):
And you'd move back to tom and Anu with your family.
At what point did you sort of make the break
and move out and established it.

Speaker 4 (12:10):
When I was eighteen, that was the deal. I got
on the train and I came to live in Auckland.
I left home.

Speaker 3 (12:17):
How was it coming back to Auckland.

Speaker 4 (12:20):
Well, it was a bit lonely at first. I organized
a job at My first job that I had was
at the Auckland Gas Company and so I was of
wagers clerk there and I went to I boarded with
a family in Takapoona, and that I didn't get on

(12:45):
very well with the mother of the family, and so
then I moved out to a flat of my own
with a girl that worked at the at the same
gas company as I worked in And there's a fairly
traumatic incident for the reason why I had to leave
that flat. Yeah, so I don't know whether you want

(13:10):
me to go into that.

Speaker 3 (13:11):
Well, I mean, if you're comfortable talking about it's entirely
the landlord.

Speaker 4 (13:16):
Well, my flatmates left because she was pregnant. She went
back home to live in Torona. Right, And the landlord
came around to my house and not because I had
to explain to him that I could only pay half
of the rent at the moment until I got a
new flatmate. Sure, and he saw that as a as
an opening for him to make sexual advances towards me. Right,

(13:38):
And he actually bought his two Alsatian dogs into the
into the bedroom and tied them to the bed so
I couldn't struggle too much.

Speaker 3 (13:46):
Horribly intimidating.

Speaker 4 (13:48):
And he got fine seventy five dollars. And because I'd
accepted a drink from him, the judge told me that
it was kind of you know, that I had led
the guy on because I'd had a drink with him,
and that usually means that that I was willing.

Speaker 3 (14:05):
Yeah, that's awful, Andrea. Yeah, what was the impact on
you at the time.

Speaker 4 (14:12):
Well, it still brings me to tears. Yeah, but yeah,
I'm I'm resilient. Yeah, and I have a program that
helps me deal with it.

Speaker 3 (14:26):
I guess the obvious question to ask is whether it
led to you to turn to drinking more or or
to turn to drinking in a different kind of way.

Speaker 4 (14:33):
Well, once I got back to Auckland, I did. I
did smoke a bit of pot when I was in
Tomaranui if I could get hold of any. But I
did increase, probably increased my marijuana intake, and I think

(14:56):
a doctor at the time put me on vailium and
I possibly misused that for a few months after the incident.

Speaker 3 (15:05):
I think it's a very difficult drug not to misuse.

Speaker 4 (15:08):
Frankly, Yeah, But the saving grace of that was that
I found my people. I moved out of that house.
I met up with a medical student that I used
to know when we were at school together. We were
at different schools, obviously, but he went to a Catholic

(15:30):
boys school that and I met him at one of
our school dancers. But anyway, he took me under his
wing right and he was living in a group flat,
which you know, for the early seventies it was quite.

Speaker 3 (15:45):
So, quite progressive, progressive aggressive.

Speaker 4 (15:48):
So there was four medical students, a guy who was
into computers, and me and one other woman, and we
all moved into first of all a Flatten Dominion Road,
and then we moved to Herne Bay to another big house,
and then we ended up in a mansion in Epsom delightful.

Speaker 3 (16:08):
How old were you roughly?

Speaker 4 (16:09):
Well, I would have been. I was eighteen nineteen twenty.

Speaker 3 (16:14):
Yes, they're still quite young.

Speaker 4 (16:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (16:16):
Yeah, and.

Speaker 4 (16:18):
They were great years. Yeah, because we were dropping a
bit of acids, smoking a lot of pot, drinking a lot.

Speaker 3 (16:26):
All very consistent with the late sixties early seventies.

Speaker 4 (16:30):
Yeah, dancing till you know, dancing in the lounge room
till mid died and beyond. And yeah, I had lots
of boyfriends at the time, and it was pretty happy.

Speaker 8 (16:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (16:43):
I can see your face light up as you talk
about it. There's some really nice memories there. But I'm
interested with your points along the way in your twenties
where you did have moments where you started to think
perhaps you were drinking too much, or that your drug
use was sort of starting to tip into less fun.

Speaker 4 (17:00):
No, right, not in my twenties, Okay, No. What happened
was when I was about twenty one, I found a
theater teacher practitioner called Raymond Hawthorne, and he was starting
a new theater company called Theater Corporate, and I became

(17:25):
a founder member. Okay, I was in their Story theater
company which was touring around the primary schools of the
North Island, and then in the second year we got
to do secondary schools, which was Shakespeare, Sheridan, Dylan Thomas.

Speaker 3 (17:43):
That was a great opportunity.

Speaker 4 (17:45):
It was brilliant and I'd always been a good mover
and I've always loved mime. When I was thirteen, see
Marcel Marceau, Cool and a roundabout or then I decided
I wanted to be a mime artist standard performer. But

(18:05):
around about this time I heard about mime's school called
Jacques Lecoq in Paris, and then it became my lifelong
vision and dream to go to that mime school.

Speaker 3 (18:17):
Did you make her?

Speaker 4 (18:18):
I did? Yeah, Yeah.

Speaker 3 (18:20):
How long did it take you to get you there?
And what did it take?

Speaker 4 (18:24):
Well? When I was I stayed at Theater Corporate till
I was twenty three, and then I decided that earning
what we were earning being actors was sixty bucks a week,
which even then wasn't very much money, that I was
never going to be able to save up enough money
to go to Lacock Mime School in that sort of way.
So I decided to go to Sydney, where I thought

(18:47):
perhaps the potential to earn more money might have been
a good idea.

Speaker 3 (18:53):
But the key we dream of making more money across
the tairsman.

Speaker 4 (18:56):
That's right, Yes, Sydney was interesting for me. Sydney was
the first time I ever used Heroin, right, And the
first time I used it.

Speaker 3 (19:06):
I loved it and Travenus yes.

Speaker 4 (19:09):
And I continued that love affair on and off for about.

Speaker 3 (19:15):
Five years, just while you were in Sydney.

Speaker 4 (19:19):
Sydney and then London. So I got to London, I'd say, oh,
I was. I was being a stripper on the cross.
I was earning good money. I still had the dream
of getting to the Coock Mime School, but I was
able to feed a habit and save money. Just pretty extraordinary.

Speaker 5 (19:39):
Really.

Speaker 3 (19:40):
On one level, that makes sense because you were a
physical performer, right, I mean you said before, I was
a good mover was the phrase you used. But on
the other hand, I wonder whether moving into that line
of work was more about getting money for the drugs
and alcohol than than choosing it as a career option,
if you know what I mean.

Speaker 4 (19:57):
It wasn't really a career option. Yeah, I felt kind of.

Speaker 3 (20:01):
Like out of necessity.

Speaker 4 (20:03):
Well now I felt slightly kind of one up on
the other strippers. I know that's a terrible thing to say,
but I had my costumes designed by a costume designer
that I knew. I had my three songs suggested by
you know, musical people I knew, and I had my
choreography done.

Speaker 3 (20:23):
Are you're treating it as a dramatic perfection?

Speaker 4 (20:25):
It was, that's right. I never slept with the men
that men were kept at Bay Boundaries. I sort of,
in my delusional mind, I was, Yes, it was a performance.
I had a beginning, a middle, and an end, and yeah,
I managed to kind of well kid myself. I guess

(20:49):
that I was doing something artistic.

Speaker 3 (20:52):
Right, Yeah, well it sort of sounds like you were
in a way.

Speaker 4 (20:56):
Yeah, it's bloody hard work. I was working at three
different clubs and going from one club to the next
and changing in the taxi on the way for my
next thing. So it was, you know, they were very
six hours of the hardest work that you could have
ever imagine dancing and racing from one club to another.

Speaker 3 (21:15):
And you got to London? Did you get to Paris?
In the end?

Speaker 4 (21:18):
I did? I did. I finally got to Paris. I
managed to clean up from the heroine before I got
to to Leacock Mime School.

Speaker 3 (21:28):
How did you manage that.

Speaker 4 (21:31):
Sheer willpower? I never stopped drinking though, and I I
got to Paris, and it was much harder than I imagined.
The the the the structure was that they took on
as many newcomers as they could possibly land, and they

(21:53):
culled them.

Speaker 3 (21:54):
Okay, very highly competitive.

Speaker 4 (21:56):
Very competitive. I managed to make it first that through
the first three months, got into the second three months,
and I i've then I started working as a cleaner,
because you know, my money ran out. I had for
the first three months, I was fine. I had enough
money to live in a hotel for goodness sake in

(22:17):
Paris and I but that money all dwindled and then
suddenly I realized that I was going to have to
get a flat and I was going to have to
do some work. So I got a job as a
cleaner for this very wealthy woman and her husband had
recently passed away from cancer, and she had a cupboard

(22:37):
full of pethidine, and I started to help myself to
the pethodine, and so I was turning up to class
on the nod and I, you know, first of all,
I was just taking one or two just to take
the edge off, and then I just got stuck into its.

Speaker 3 (22:54):
Pithodene. For people don't know, suz is a opiate pain color.

Speaker 7 (22:58):
Yeah, it's a synthetic opiate and it's got a little
bit of something else in it to take the edge off.
Very popular in the seventies eighties. I don't know if
it's still around, but it was around a lot. Their name.

Speaker 3 (23:13):
It was one that they used in childbirth.

Speaker 7 (23:15):
That's the first time I ever had it. That's exactly right.

Speaker 3 (23:21):
So the dream started to look a little shaky.

Speaker 4 (23:25):
Where sounds kept out of min school, right, Yeah.

Speaker 3 (23:28):
Okay, we need to take a break. Let's after the
break come back and talk about what happened when you
got kicked out and how you dealt with that. Being
all the way on the other side of the world.
We'll be back surely here on the Nathers Club.

Speaker 1 (23:41):
Nuss's club now on news Talks.

Speaker 3 (23:44):
It'd be welcome back to the Naders Club, Sir Andrew,
you got kicked out. Yeah, that must have been awful.
Was it because of the fact that you had restarted
using pithodene and the impact of that or was it?
Was there more to it than that?

Speaker 4 (23:58):
Well, it was because you know, you're not off. I
was falling asleep in class. I wasn't I was no
longer being creative. I wasn't doing the work there were
we were down to doing the we were down to

(24:19):
sixty students, going down to thirty and in the second
you know, the third third part of the year. So
I was, you know, an easy target for being right.

Speaker 3 (24:32):
So you didn't make it through to the next round
because it was the next round. Yeah, So how did
you process that? How did you deal with that? You're
in Paris, you're on the other side of the world,
you're working as a cleaner, You've you've lost your dream.
What happened next? Oh?

Speaker 4 (24:46):
Well, I went shopping right, yep, as you do. As
you do. I had a few thousand dollars left of
my hard earned money, so I shopped in Paris at
the end stores. I bought clothes that that I would
you know, they weren't my kind of usual style of things,
and I cried. I cried, and I cried and I cried.

Speaker 3 (25:08):
Yeah, yes, I mean the shopping was a way to
try to not feel it.

Speaker 4 (25:12):
I guess.

Speaker 3 (25:12):
So did you make it home?

Speaker 6 (25:16):
H not.

Speaker 4 (25:16):
At that stage, I had a very faithful boyfriend and
I went back to London and we were living in
a house boat on the Thames. Sounds very romantic, but
it's not so great when it's snowing. I got jobs
and bars, and I sort of gradually pulled myself together.

(25:39):
I started using intravenously again, and and then some friends
of mine New Zealanders that they were forming a theater company,
and they they were worried about me. They weren't using addicts.
Everybody else I knew was using, and so they had

(26:01):
this idea that we would go. They've been invited to
the opening of something huge in France and we were
going to do a show there. So I stopped using.
For the period that I was with them, I wasn't
very comfortable in my own skin. I was still drinking

(26:22):
it's my constant, and smoking quite a lot of dope.
But we went on this mad tour of France. We
were so poor. We had a Volkswagen, not a van,
not a comby Van, an actual Volkswagen, and we didn't
have enough money. After about a weekend, after we'd done
our first the Pompadou Center, that's what we went to

(26:42):
the opening of in Paris. We'd take turns. Two of
us would sleep in the Volkswagen and the other two
would have to take our luck on the beaches. Were
parked by a beach and sleep and sleeping bags on
the sand.

Speaker 3 (26:56):
In the beetle wouldn't have been that comfortable.

Speaker 4 (26:57):
Nobody was comfortable. And we were doing these shows and
broken French to these tiny little towns where the French
people would look at us go.

Speaker 3 (27:08):
On mad to make yea.

Speaker 4 (27:11):
So we weren't even making any money in the hat.
So on our way back I got stopped at customs
because the reason why I was allowed to be there
after the age of twenty six was because I was
going to school. But I was no longer going to school,
so they were going to deport me back to New Zealand.
So I rang the boyfriend and I said, darling, what

(27:33):
about our wedding? What date is our wedding? And when
shall I pick up my wedding dress? While the customs
guards were listening in and.

Speaker 3 (27:46):
Skills came in handy.

Speaker 4 (27:47):
He caught on and I was allowed to go back
to London. They even sent a customs guard to witness
that I was actually telling the truth and we were
getting so I got married.

Speaker 3 (28:02):
As you do.

Speaker 4 (28:02):
As you do.

Speaker 3 (28:04):
You mentioned that some of your friends were starting to
be concerned about you. Were you starting to be concerned
about yourself or were you still very much in that
place where everything was fine you were hanging on.

Speaker 4 (28:16):
I think I surrounded myself with people that were much worse,
if you know what I mean. They were worst junkies
than I was. So I always felt like I'll be
okay because when I get as bad as that person,
then I might think about doing something about it. I
used to think they needed help, but I didn't think
I did.

Speaker 3 (28:36):
Yeah. Yeah, there was always someone who had a worse problem,
always having a worse time.

Speaker 4 (28:42):
Yeah yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (28:44):
When did that thought start to grow for you that actually,
maybe you do have a problem.

Speaker 4 (28:52):
Not till I was about forty years old.

Speaker 3 (28:54):
Okay, quite a long time. Yet in your life. What
was it you think that made you be able to be,
by all measures and by all accounts, actively addicted to
a number of different substances, but still actually live your life,
still keep your head above water.

Speaker 4 (29:13):
Oh well, youth is quite good. And also because I
relied on other people to shoot me up, they were
always a bit greedier.

Speaker 3 (29:23):
Than okay, I was, so made it safe in a way,
a little.

Speaker 4 (29:27):
Bit safer maybe that I wasn't getting as much as
they were so and I was always drinking right, and so,
you know, because I think it might have diluted my
problems somewhat. I'm not sure, but for whatever reason, I yeah,

(29:47):
I struggled on. But my saving grace was I got
pregnant and I had to come back to New Zealand
because my husband couldn't support me. And so I came
back to New Zealand. I gave up Heroin. From the
day that I found out that I was pregnant, I'd

(30:07):
lived in flat with a couple of people whose babies
were born addicted, right and those you know, those screaming babies.
I really didn't want my baby to be addicted when
he was born. So I came back to New Zealand.
I lived with my mother in a little while, and.

Speaker 9 (30:27):
Then back in Tui No No in Auckland, Okay, and
then my husband two weeks before he was my son
was born.

Speaker 4 (30:37):
He came back to New Zealand as well. Right, so
we were a little nuclear family for a very short
period of time.

Speaker 3 (30:45):
How old were you when your son was born?

Speaker 4 (30:47):
Twenty nine?

Speaker 3 (30:48):
You've become a parent. You were back in New Zealand,
You were carrying on with your life, but at the
same time, you were drinking all the way through all
of this. You were using heroin and opiates on and off,
and smoking cannabis on and off. What was the point
at which you started to think, I've got a problem
here or I need to do something different.

Speaker 4 (31:12):
Probably when I was about thirty six or thirty seven.
A really good friend of mine, she had been my lover,
but she was just a friend at the time that
she said she said that I think you're an addict,
And you know, I went, how.

Speaker 3 (31:31):
Very dad, not me?

Speaker 4 (31:34):
Have you looked at yourself lately? And you know it
didn't stick.

Speaker 3 (31:41):
Was it the first time someone had used that word?

Speaker 4 (31:43):
I think so, yes, Yeah, I thought she was wrong.

Speaker 3 (31:48):
Yeah yeah, But.

Speaker 4 (31:52):
I think it made me start to think about the
way I was drinking, almost to black out every single
time I drank. It was every day, and I stopped
being asked to so many parties you could start to
piss me off. Actually, yeah, because you know, people would

(32:14):
see me coming and they say, bunnies. I not take
Andrea home, you know, because I would never want to
get out of the car. I never wanted the party
to finish, right, you know. I just always like, we
used to go to nightclubs and there was sort of
the staircase and that would close, and then there was Alfhi's.
You could go there for a couple of hours. And
then there was a place on Ponsible Road that sold

(32:39):
what whiskey coffees were they called? Yeah, Irish? Yeah, I
used to get that was sort of like and then
the sun would come up and finally think, oh, perhaps
I need to need to go home now. So yeah,
I didn't like the party to finish, but I still
didn't think it was a huge problem.

Speaker 3 (32:54):
So she used the A word and did that sort
of did that start to tumble around in your brain
even though you denied it when you spoke with her.

Speaker 4 (33:04):
I think when I was about forty, I went to
CADS for the first time.

Speaker 3 (33:08):
Okay, what prompted you to go?

Speaker 8 (33:10):
There?

Speaker 3 (33:10):
Was this something that had happened.

Speaker 4 (33:12):
I think that I can't actually remember. I think it
might have been somebody else saying, you know, have you
ever thought of doing something about this? There's this, you know,
give me the cart. I didn't trust the woman, the counselor.
She related to me and that she was having a

(33:32):
problem giving up coffee, and I thought, yeah, you also
that instant. She said how many beers do you think
you drink a day? And I said, well, I think
I might drink hates And she said, well, why don't
we try that? You drink six and then, you know,
see if you could stop. So I thought, oh, I

(33:54):
could do that. So I go to the pub at
nine o'clock in the morning and drink six beers, then
have a little sleep, and then wake up in the
afternoon and have another six.

Speaker 3 (34:04):
Right, I'm still baking the rules.

Speaker 4 (34:06):
Yeah, but you know, my dition have become cunning and baffling,
and it was, you know, it was trying to find
ways around things. So you know, in my right mind,
I probably would have thought, oh, I am I'm being
sneaky about this, even to myself.

Speaker 3 (34:23):
Yeah. Yeah, it's not unusual. Is It's easy for people
to bounce around in this place quite a while. Sometimes, yeah,
for a very.

Speaker 7 (34:30):
Long time, and it takes a long time for people
to realize there is a problem. And that very creative
way of framing things up there that you managed to
get two days out of every twenty four hours, you know,
to keep a habit going, people do need to be
really creative, resourceful and determined and also resilient, and that

(34:52):
resilience can sometimes keep people out there for longer, and
especially women who've got kids, as it happens anecdotally, probably
some research about.

Speaker 3 (35:03):
That, so kids are tried this softly, softly, you'd found
the loopholes. When did your life's reality mean that you
were unable to keep finding the loopholes.

Speaker 4 (35:17):
Well, my rock bottom came when my parents threatened to
take my son. He was thirteen at the time. They
couldn't take him themselves, so they said, we're going to
get his father that I was separated from or divorced from.
Then we're going to get his father to take him

(35:38):
off you and you can go and destroy yourself if
that's what you want to do. So anyway, my poor
old ex husband came up from Wellington and he had
bright eyes, he was energetic, he had a sense of humor.

(35:58):
And I found out that he was nine months clean.
And this was somebody that I always compared myself with.
If I ever get as bad as that person, I'll
know that I've got a problem. Yeah, you know, he
was my big excuse. Yeah, and he was clean.

Speaker 3 (36:12):
But it also sounds like your son was your reason why.
Yeah that what you said was it Actually as soon
as you became pregnant, you were able to stop using
opiates and get clean to ensure that he was okay.
So I imagine the idea of losing him must have
had a huge impact on you.

Speaker 5 (36:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (36:31):
Yeah, even though I was being a stink mum. Yeah,
like not turning up to his school ball for instance,
to pick him up, and you know, forgetting things and
not having enough money for his school you know, plays
or whatever he was doing, and the idea that somebody
would take him away from me just became absolutely that

(36:51):
wasn't going to happen.

Speaker 3 (36:52):
But the thing is that being a stink mum, as
you say, that's also part of the reason to change,
isn't it recognizing that actually you're not being the mum
you wanted to be.

Speaker 4 (37:01):
Yeah. So anyway, when my ex husband got me an
appointment to a treatment center, went and met the woman
and I don't know how this happened, but she said,
in three days time, I've got a bed for you.
Go to detox, come back on Monday, and you can
start four and a half month's treatment.

Speaker 3 (37:22):
Wow four and a half months. Yeah, they must have
sounded terrifying.

Speaker 4 (37:26):
Sounded terrifying, Yeah, sounded but I was absolutely ready to
surrender at that moment. The one thing that I did say,
but what about Timothy? What's going to happen to my boy?
And an ex girlfriend of mine who he had been
brought up by practically from three to six, she was

(37:48):
living out on a farm, and she said she would
take him right.

Speaker 3 (37:51):
Susie, what are the kind of things we might need
to think about when somebody's actually taking off to detox.
I mean it's not as easy as you just go
off and magically find your way to sobriety, is it.

Speaker 7 (38:03):
No, that's writing itself in a terrifying thing too, Kyle,
and you were probably terrific. I mean, going into detox
is scary, and it's just term really in terms of
you know, people who are using alcohol long term, it's
really important that they get a good medical detox, because
alcohols are very dangerous drug to withdraw from. Of all

(38:26):
the drugs apart from benzodiazepines, it is the most dangerous
drug to withdraw from. So that's a weird kind of
environment to be. And then into a treatment center were
as a whole new world. And I you know, people
by the time they get to detox or arrive at

(38:47):
the doors of a treatment center are usually full of
shame and fear and anxiety and gils and isolation. And
you know it might be, as Andrew said before, at
the point of surrender, however, really really scared at the
same time because Watson Store, you know, if someone's been

(39:07):
using for you and they're probably oftentimes their only experience
of not using is withdrawals, and that's really unpleasant. And
people often think that if they stop using, that's what
it's going to feel like all the time. I don't
know if it was like that for you, but you
were at that point where you just thought, right, I

(39:28):
just need to be somewhere. I'm just going to do
as I'm told. Basically, you know, you were bad been
brought to your knees absolutely, which is a prime place
for people to begin.

Speaker 3 (39:40):
Do people need to get to I mean rock bottoms?
The term isn't it? And use the word surrender Andrew men,
do people need to get to that rock bottom? Does
there need to be a crisis or a disaster for
change to happen?

Speaker 2 (39:50):
Yeah?

Speaker 7 (39:51):
I used to think so, and I think some people
can have several mo rock bottoms along the way and
maybe you know, they don't nothing changes at that point
in time. Yeah, this is another story. I mean, it
would be great, really if we we had services where
people who might be using hazardously, say, might be able

(40:13):
to go and just get checked out and you know, see,
so they're still in that place where they can make
some decisions around what they're going to do. I mean,
once once people become addicted to a substance, the choice
is taken away because the addiction to the alcohol, the
other drugs, or the behavior, whatever it might be. Pokey's
porn shopping is in the driver's seat. So you know,

(40:37):
the way things are these days, We've got services for
people who are there, Yeah.

Speaker 3 (40:42):
Because it might be when I imagine it would be
absolutely terrifying and it may have been terrifying for you
Andrea to to feel like the only choice was to
stop altogether. I mean it's kind of like, you know,
detox will keep going. Is quite as It's a forced
choice in a way, isn't it, And it kind of
needs to be in a way. Especially you know, as
you talked about where you got to with your own addiction,

(41:05):
what was it like going walking into detox the bag
under your arm, ready or not ready to go?

Speaker 4 (41:12):
Oh, detox was so weird. It's called social detox, which
is not very social. And they had lots of chocolate biscuits.

Speaker 3 (41:23):
I remember, unlimbited chocolate biscuits.

Speaker 4 (41:25):
Chocolate biscuits, endless cups of tea, instant coffee. And the
weirdest thing was that you you had somebody waking you
up three or four times a night and to make
sure you were still alive, which it was.

Speaker 3 (41:48):
To be quite scary. I mean, it's usually quite fun
to get waken up at the night.

Speaker 4 (41:51):
So weird. But anyway, he was just doing his job,
I suppose, of course, I think I used some expletives
at about the four o'clock session, fair enough, But I
mean I think that higher power or whatever we want
to call it, took over from that point because my

(42:13):
detox was not bad. It wasn't horrible. It wasn't you know.
The physical manifestations of my detox weren't disastrous or terrifying.
It was the what is my life going to be
like if I can't do what I've always done? That

(42:35):
was the scariest part of it.

Speaker 3 (42:38):
The fear of change.

Speaker 4 (42:39):
What am I? What am I going to be like?
You know? The great thing about So I was only
there for three days and then I went straight into
a rehabilitation center four and a half months, and I
just decided from being a rebel all these years, I
was just going to be the goodest, goodest girl that

(43:00):
you could possibly imagine. I did everything I was told.
I rose through the ranks really quickly. I did all my.

Speaker 3 (43:08):
Homework, I got all the gold stars.

Speaker 4 (43:10):
I was just compliant.

Speaker 3 (43:13):
And was that because you really wanted to throw yourself
into recovery or was it that wanting to be compliant perfect?

Speaker 4 (43:20):
I just wanted to be I wanted to I suppose
it was sort of like, oh, I've been absolutely shit
as a mother, as a partner, as you know, whatever.
That I wanted to be good at something.

Speaker 3 (43:34):
So I thought, okay, could it rehab I mean, it's
to be fair. That sounds like it worked. At least
at first. You got your sober, kept you in recovery,
kept you in the program.

Speaker 4 (43:45):
Yes, yeah, well I was determined to stay. I mean
along the wayside, you go in with twenty three people
and everybody thinks everybody is going to make it, you know,
little by little people fall over for various reasons or go.

Speaker 3 (43:57):
Back out, and it's really hard, isn't it. I mean you,
like you said, you were compliant, you gave you're all,
but it's a really tough thing to do, and it's
mean less. Most treatment programs agree based, doren't they.

Speaker 4 (44:09):
Yeah, they're all group based, and things like your parents
are bought in at some stage and you read a
letter out to them apologizing for your behavior.

Speaker 3 (44:19):
And what was that like for you?

Speaker 4 (44:22):
Well, I didn't mean it at the but anyway, you
had to do it. I did.

Speaker 3 (44:34):
Theater experience, classically trained.

Speaker 4 (44:36):
Yes, yeah, I had a few altercations while I was
in there. I took my when I got given the
power of responsibility over the kitchen. I had three they
were young young boys and they were supposed to be

(44:57):
peeling the potatoes, and they were peeling the kitchen knives
as feelers, and I just took strips off these poor boys,
and and I got hauled into the to the facilitator's
office and told that they were not my slaves and
I was not to treat them like that.

Speaker 7 (45:14):
The power had gone to your hair, to the power had.

Speaker 4 (45:16):
Gone to so you know, like from being completely compliant
and being really good, I went to being this absolute bitch.

Speaker 3 (45:23):
Was that because you were feeling things really strongly? And
that was how it came out.

Speaker 4 (45:26):
I don't know what got it to me, right, I
just feeling of power. I am powerful over these people.
Suddenly I had something that I was, you know a
little bit powerful poor boys, But anyway, we ended up
being the best of mates.

Speaker 3 (45:40):
Good you graduated, you finished? Yeah, what was it like
to finish? I mean I appreciate that bits of it
may not have had your full heart in it. Shall
we say you didn't do all the steps with with
your full spirit? But nonetheless you were sober and you've
done the program.

Speaker 4 (45:58):
Yes, I did. And I went to what they call
a halfway house and road, and I stayed there for
another four weeks, but I really wanted to get on
with the next mixed phase of my life, which was
getting my boy back and becoming the perfect mother.

Speaker 3 (46:13):
Right.

Speaker 4 (46:16):
Well, I got him back and I went back to
live in my state house in Newton. And that's when
the problem started, really because I sat there, having got
him off to school, and I didn't know what to do.

Speaker 3 (46:30):
With my days at all this time, absolute.

Speaker 4 (46:33):
Time on my hands. I had no job, I had
no I wasn't doing any theater and so I was
literally sitting on my hands, thinking there were seven minutes
to one pub I used to like to go do
ok Road, seven minutes to another pub, and seven minutes
to my dealer, and I thought I will not be

(46:54):
able to stay clean if I stay here. So I
went and lived in a caravan out at parakeuaik great idea,
not so being out at Parachai. Same thing xcept that
I didn't have those favorite places to think about. But
what I did do is I started going to the

(47:16):
Paraki hotel and playing the pokies, sitting on a glass
of warm lemonade and playing the Pokyes. So for my son,
having had this mother who wasn't emotionally present because I
was always drunk or around a bit, I was suddenly
this mother who was sitting at a poky machine and
he couldn't what's the difference. I still wasn't present, I

(47:39):
still wasn't coming home and cooking him meals, and we
were still broke. I played the pokies for a year
and then I got a job and I used a meeting,
a fellowship meeting that I was going to, and I said,
could I claim chips on? Like I haven't gambled for

(48:02):
five days? I haven't gambled for ten twenty thirty. And
so I managed to drop that addiction as well. But God,
that was soulless.

Speaker 3 (48:12):
Yeah, and understandable in the context that you were still
looking for something but staying away from you.

Speaker 4 (48:21):
Very proud that I wasn't using what was the difference?

Speaker 3 (48:25):
Yeah, just to go back, I mean, I am one
of my first jobs in the field actually is working
on the problem gambling helpline. And I think often people
fail to understand how people I mean, you know, if
you're pouring liquid and down your throat, or you're sticking
a needle in your arm, or you're smoking something, it's
kind of easy to see how you get addicted to something, right,
But what's the experience of getting hooked on pokes and

(48:47):
what did it? How did it serve you? What did
it give you for that year that you were at
the Parachuaye pub?

Speaker 4 (48:53):
Most days, well, it's the thrill of the of the wind,
right right. That's the reason you play is because the
lovely Because in those days it was still money. These
days apparently no money changes hands. It's all on a card.
But anyway you.

Speaker 3 (49:14):
Get a tinkle of the coins when they come out.

Speaker 4 (49:17):
But the thing is that that's not enough. One is
never enough. We say that in all of our addictions.
Is the moment all that money is there, that's my
money to have another three hours of fun.

Speaker 3 (49:29):
Might win even bigger, It might.

Speaker 4 (49:31):
Win even bigger. And it's it is literally the yeah,
as I said before, it's completely soulless, and it's it's
like a little voice in your head that you know
I won't stop. The only reason why I stopped some
nights is because the pub closed. You know, it is

(49:54):
just just one more, just one more. I want to
win even more. And so Tim, Tim would come into
the pub and maybe I just won, and he'd go, oh, mum,
can we let's take that money? I could buy a
new skateboard or little ladure and perhaps I'd give them
some money out of my winnings, but I'd just go, I'll,

(50:15):
I'll just just another five minutes too. And yeah, it's
insidious and even more. And the thing was that I
was ashamed. I'd go home ashamed, like you know, one
hundred and like I might have only started with twenty dollars,
but I'd have got the jackpot a couple of times
in the space of the time, and I hadn't taken

(50:37):
it out. I didn't understand myself.

Speaker 3 (50:43):
That transition Susy from out of an incredibly supportive group
program into the community is really rough, isn't it.

Speaker 7 (50:50):
It is, it really is. And you know, people were
just like you're so beautifully described. You're sitting there sort
of sitting on your hands, thinking, well, what do I
do now? You know, I who am I? And what
do I do now? And I can see the lure
of the poking machine because you'd go long for a
little flutter, and that's that anticipation, that's the flutter, and

(51:12):
then you find yourself. Because the thing about addiction, right,
it doesn't discriminate and it doesn't care whether it's addicted
to a pokey or heroine or weed or alcohol. You know,
it's you know, I have this sort of vision of
that because if you think about the characteristics of addiction

(51:34):
as being some of the characteristic characteristics being obsession and compulsion, well,
obsession does not care what. It's obsessed with a person,
a thing, and a pokey just sitting there all bright lights.
Press it's only a little bit of money at the beginning,
and then you press it and then.

Speaker 3 (51:53):
Programs by psychologists have gone over the dark side.

Speaker 7 (51:56):
Absolutely right, Yeah, that's right, and it's purposeful, and you
know it's if someone has got that predisposition or it's
not at all on common, especially for people who have
been addicted to stimulants. To get into the pokies.

Speaker 3 (52:14):
Is a do Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 7 (52:17):
That anticipation, whether it's a win or loses that dopaminet.
I just looked just FYI, I just looked at the
regional poky stats at Problem Gambling Foundation, And what time
is it now?

Speaker 3 (52:29):
It is twenty four minutes past twelve.

Speaker 7 (52:30):
Okay, twenty four minutes past twelve today lost on Poky's
already forty five thousand, six hundred and six or six
hundred and sixty nine and last year lost on Pokey's
two hundred and nineteen million plus.

Speaker 3 (52:46):
Than so that forty five thousand is for the last
twenty four minutes of today.

Speaker 7 (52:49):
Yeah, that's it. It's at forty six. It's at forty
six one seven one now, So that's happening live.

Speaker 3 (52:56):
That's unbelievable, I know, amazing the power of it. Yeah,
we've got Jim on the line. Let's go to Jim. Jim,
welcome to the show.

Speaker 5 (53:08):
Thank you. Just trying to get my words together. Maybe
sure a little bit later, but I don't know how
to explain it or it's pretty strange. I've been through Redhead,
been through a really good one and a really bad one,

(53:32):
and I realized that if you actually had good money,
you go to a very good clinic. So what I'm
trying to figure out is is it, Yeah, if you

(53:57):
have the money, you can go, you can get it
right help. If you don't, you have to deal with
what's on offer. And and I kind of don't think
that's right. Okay when it comes to this mental to
a addiction lot we're talking about. Yeah, I was wondering

(54:21):
if the Laddy I've forgotten your name, Sorry, Andrew, Andrea. Yeah,
do you did you even come across s Did you
notice that that the welfare are true to better then
are the reheas or.

Speaker 4 (54:38):
My experience was that I went to a government funded
treatment center and the treatment that I got there, the
standard of the the therapists was absolute. I mean, I'll
say world class, but I don't have anything to compare

(55:00):
it with. But it was extraordinary and we were beautifully
fed and everything about it was I mean, it was
the beautiful mansion and Parnell when I went there, slightly
getting a bit rough around the edges, needed a paint,
but it was you know, I have no criticism at

(55:21):
all of the treatment that I got there, and it
was free.

Speaker 5 (55:25):
I went to a free clinic as well as the
Queen Mary and Hamna Springs, and I was one of
the last classes to go through there before they closed.

Speaker 8 (55:39):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (55:39):
I was going to say that's closed down now, and
it was.

Speaker 5 (55:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (55:46):
The thing I wanted to ask you, really is, given
you've had those experiences of rehead in the past, where
are you now.

Speaker 5 (55:54):
I'm kind of on a very good boat on I'm
drinking and I don't know, but I've gone through a
lot of a heartache in the last year, people passing away.

Speaker 3 (56:14):
I'm sorry to hear that.

Speaker 5 (56:16):
I've also had a lot of hurry in my life
and I'm trying to do good for it. The only
thing I can find that helps me get through it
really is alcohol. Yeah, and I'm just being.

Speaker 3 (56:36):
Honest, Susie. What would you suggest, what would you suggest
for Jim? What would be a good next step for Jim?
Do you think?

Speaker 7 (56:44):
Well, it's hard to say, actually, but I just firstly,
I want to acknowledge you're honesty, Jim. That's great that
you rang up and that you've been listening to the
story and that you you're still wanting to make some
change of some sort, even though you've been to some rehabs,
and have you had any time at all when you've

(57:04):
been able to be in recovery and experience that out
of rehab.

Speaker 5 (57:12):
Only only once? Then I had it, but this after that,
and now I'm thinking I need to go back. Yes,
so I'm definitely seeking counsel on that. Well, what what
I find is I tend to drink at night. My

(57:34):
day is usually I don't work. My last job I
was fired. I used to drink to go to sleep
because the job was so stressful.

Speaker 7 (57:50):
What does it like that, Jim, What is it that
you want? What would you like to do?

Speaker 5 (58:02):
Really well, I'd love to do some really good study and.

Speaker 6 (58:09):
Go away for a.

Speaker 5 (58:10):
While and learn what I Yeah, I really don't know.

Speaker 3 (58:21):
I don't know.

Speaker 5 (58:22):
I'm honestly, I really don't know. I know what I
want to do. Or I'd love to go to Antarctica
and then help being a scientist. But I don't see
that that's my ultimate goal. But apart from that, I
really don't know, right, I'm really lost at the moment,
and I don't.

Speaker 7 (58:41):
Yeah, I can hear that, No, I can do. So
when you had that time when you were in recovery,
when you were out of rehab, what was that like
for you?

Speaker 5 (58:52):
Very positive? Very positive? Until I started working for the
wrong people. They didn't believe in me in a way,
or or I was underpaid very much for the work

(59:14):
that I did and I felt betrayed in the way.
I had no help through my work. I asked them
for help and they just did look, you know, and
I didn't get any help at all.

Speaker 7 (59:30):
Do you consider going to rehab again?

Speaker 5 (59:34):
Yes, yes, what most definitely? But not the state edits
in at the moment, the state that I don't believe,
this state of reheabs at the moment a very very
good for anyone. The last one I left because I
just didn't I didn't like the environment that I was in.

(59:55):
It was very rushed through, it wasn't thought about.

Speaker 3 (01:00:00):
There's quite a few different services around us in there,
so I mean it is possible to shop around a
little bit when it comes to rehab and is here
think about have to leave ones as well.

Speaker 7 (01:00:09):
There's quite a few.

Speaker 5 (01:00:11):
Yeah, I'm thinking about leaving to this area. I'd have
to leave this area to get some really one on one.
I find it hard to talk in a group. I
find it hard to a lot of it's all around
groups of people and you have to listen to their
their stories and you can you bring in your story

(01:00:33):
and stuff with this on more on one on one.
I can't do that in front of a lot of
people and nothing they need to need to address stuff
like that.

Speaker 3 (01:00:42):
I hear that really clearly, Jim, and I guess says
what options are there if people want one on one treatment?
I mean, what an option for.

Speaker 7 (01:00:48):
People communicate alcohol and drug services is throughout them too.
But the other thing that I could suggest for you too,
that's got absolutely no waiting times or you don't have
to pay or anything. You could go to some AA
meetings online and just have a listen if you don't
want to be you know, if you're feeling anxious about

(01:01:08):
being part of a group, you could just go on there.
You know, they're on every day and just have a listen.
You don't even need to have your camera on gym.
You can just and you know, I would encourage you
to do you know, half a dozen meetings and just
check it out and see if that's something that might
serve you well, because it's really you sound really lonely,

(01:01:29):
and it's really important just to you know, hears storre.
You know, like you've been listening tonight, listening to Andrea's
story and you know we connect through stories.

Speaker 3 (01:01:39):
Yeah, thanks very much for the call, Jim. I'd really
hope that you take that advice. And the other option,
of course, is you can call one seven three seven
twenty four hours a day, seven days a week. It's
also a free service. We've got to get to a break,
so we'll be back on the other side of this
ad break.

Speaker 1 (01:01:55):
This is the Nutters Club thanks to New Zealand on
air on News Dogs.

Speaker 3 (01:01:59):
That'd be welcome back to the Nutterers Club, Andrew. I
put a text here that I just wanted to read
to you, Andrea. Total respect for all you have overcome
and your sobriety. I wish you well for the future.

Speaker 4 (01:02:13):
Oh lovely, Thank you so much.

Speaker 3 (01:02:16):
And just a question for you, Susie Hi, I'm wondering
what's the best way to help a daughter who was
thirty six, she was committed six years ago and found
psychotic from meth clean for five years now, but she's
showing signs she could be on it again.

Speaker 7 (01:02:33):
Well, what I would suggest this is a tricky one,
isn't it. We were talking about this before the show.
Actually the impact of someone else's addiction on family and
Farno and really the thing to do. And it's because
what happens right for family members is that their life

(01:02:56):
often goes on hold. And it sounds like you're watching
for signs you know it is she on it or
you know, and naturally you're going to be because of
what's gone before, because it's very difficult to trust. But
people oftentimes put their life on hold waiting for someone
to stop doing something or maybe to begin doing something else.
And you know, what I suggest for impacted family members

(01:03:21):
is that they begin to and there's some really good
support around actually for people a family Drug support in
christ Church has got some they have groups that are nationwide.
You can just join them in zoom. But when I've
worked with affected family members, you know, it's really important
to have a look at the kind of things that

(01:03:44):
you like to do and just have maybe a think
about when's the last time you actually did that, and
then maybe deciding to do you know, a small achievable
goal towards that. And it might be I really wanted
to travel and we can't leave home because.

Speaker 3 (01:04:00):
What if blah blah blah.

Speaker 7 (01:04:01):
Yeah, you know, we can't go for that trip overseas well,
maybe can you go away for the weekend. And it's
difficult to talk about this in such a short space
of time.

Speaker 3 (01:04:11):
But yeah, but what you're saying really is that actually
you have to put your own oxygen mask on.

Speaker 7 (01:04:14):
Yeah, that's exactly right, your own oxygen mask on first,
before you can support someone to do to put theirs on.
And there's a really useful and you might want to
download it from a place called Tippo te Pou and
it's called Living Well Right, and it's strategies for a

(01:04:35):
lovely little booklet, strategies for people impacted by someone else's use,
because you don't want to get stuck in that place
where you're checking all the time, isn't she?

Speaker 5 (01:04:46):
Is she?

Speaker 7 (01:04:47):
Isn't she? Because it's very heightened and that twenty four
to seven sort of adrenaline it's only supposed to be
there for an emergency, and often.

Speaker 3 (01:04:54):
So traumatizing yourself.

Speaker 7 (01:04:56):
That's right, Yeah, And that's what happens, Kyle and family
infano impacted by someone else's addiction, often living that twenty
four to seven, waiting for the knock on the door,
waiting for the phone call, and a hypervigilant, hyper alert checking,
checking all the time. So it's no rest and restore,
and that can only come through beginning to do those

(01:05:18):
things that you enjoyed to do before all of this
went down. If that makes.

Speaker 3 (01:05:24):
Sense it does, Thank you, SUSI, great advice. So in short,
put your own oxygen mask on first, and get some
support for yourself so that you can support your family
member if indeed they are back on meth as you suspect,
we're going to go straight back to the lines we have. Dan,
welcome to the show. I understand you've got a question
for Andrea.

Speaker 10 (01:05:42):
Ah, yes I have.

Speaker 8 (01:05:44):
Okay, you have suffered from addiction, gambling, etc. What measures
have you put in place for yourself? And what other
measures would you put would you recommend for people who
have suffered from those addictions to stop them from backsliding

(01:06:07):
into the old habits.

Speaker 3 (01:06:10):
Great question, Dan.

Speaker 4 (01:06:12):
For myself, I attend NA meetings and and just by
being in a meeting, either online or in person, and
being with you know what I call my people, I
feel that I hear other people's stories. I hear people's
stories about them going out and relapsing and not having

(01:06:35):
a good time obviously, and and just you know, working
the working the twelve steps, and you know, being committed
to my own recovery.

Speaker 8 (01:06:50):
Okay, So is that what you could Because there's a
lot of communities out there, small communities who sort of
haven't got that sort of connection to those sort of places,
what would you mean for those sort of people?

Speaker 3 (01:07:10):
Well that yes, that's a great question, Dan. So just
to clarify NA for people who might be listening and
be curious as Narcotics Anonymous. So it's the if you
like the drug version of Alcoholics Anonymous or AA. Now
there's a lot of AA and NA groups now, but
Susan and Andrew, if someone's got a drinking problem and
there's only an NA group down the road, or if
they've got a drug problem and there's only an AA

(01:07:31):
group down the road, can they go to either?

Speaker 7 (01:07:33):
Well, for a start, alcohol is a drug. It is
the only drug we have to justify not using. It's
still a drug just because it's legal. So Narcotics Anonymous
doesn't distinguish between drugs, and we don't. We're not talking
about really about the drugs we used or you know,
in NA, we're just talking about basically, it's not what

(01:07:56):
we take, it's where it takes us, whether it is
alcohol or other drugs. In AA, they don't love people
talking about other drugs besides alcohol. Its it's okay and
out of rest for their traditions, as say, you know,
that's generally speaking, some places will be more.

Speaker 3 (01:08:15):
But there are groups all over the country, aren't they.
It's small centers and online and online you know.

Speaker 7 (01:08:21):
More than once a day. So these days anyone who's
got a phone. Basically, a smartphone can go to a
meeting anytime and just get on and have a listen.

Speaker 3 (01:08:33):
Basically, does that answer your question? Dain?

Speaker 8 (01:08:37):
My final question is what do you do when you
walk past a gambling institution and you've been addicted to gambling?
What would you recommend?

Speaker 7 (01:08:48):
Keep walking?

Speaker 4 (01:08:49):
Keep walking, walk on by?

Speaker 3 (01:08:53):
Good answer, Thank you very much, Thanks Dan, love your questions.
Thanks for joining the show.

Speaker 7 (01:08:58):
Great, see you, Dan.

Speaker 3 (01:09:00):
Let's go to Matthew. Well, sorry, let's go to Steve.
Steve here, you do goods, welcome to the show.

Speaker 6 (01:09:10):
Good I'm just winning.

Speaker 5 (01:09:13):
So do you.

Speaker 6 (01:09:18):
Go along with the total abstinence?

Speaker 7 (01:09:25):
Do I go along with that?

Speaker 5 (01:09:26):
There? Yeah? Like I.

Speaker 6 (01:09:30):
I've done a number of reheads over the years, and
my best one was back in ninety seven down a
Queen Mary, and I always remember being told down there
that there was on a world scale there over overall
that there was something like three percent of people who

(01:09:52):
actually stop totally who go through reheabs. Okay, so it's
extremely low. And I went in and out of reheabs
to a number of times and I'd had I'd stop,
and I'd beat myself up so badly, and I saw

(01:10:15):
it with loads of people who some people who had
stopped for close to twenty years and go along to
AA and they would reiterate all the time, if you
drink again, you'll be worse than what you were and
it'll kill you.

Speaker 5 (01:10:35):
And if you constantly put.

Speaker 6 (01:10:38):
That thought in your mind, this is just my way
of thinking that you can if you repeat that. You're
going to AA meetings four or five times a week
in some cases, and you're continually getting told if you
drink again, it's going to be worse. And you have

(01:10:59):
people who are ten to twenty years and then they
do drink. They have programmed them to go, oh, well, effort,
that's what I'm going to do. And I saw it
a number of times.

Speaker 3 (01:11:17):
Steve, Can I ask you? Can I ask you a
question because I think you make an interesting point and
I'm curious about is where are you up to and
what's worked for you.

Speaker 6 (01:11:27):
The best thing that I ever did in my life
was move away from the people, the associates and all
the drugs.

Speaker 3 (01:11:38):
And alcohol that was going on fantasy.

Speaker 6 (01:11:41):
I know that's a really difficult thing for people to do.

Speaker 3 (01:11:44):
It can be hell of it.

Speaker 6 (01:11:46):
Look, I they were my friends, they were there any
people that I had.

Speaker 3 (01:11:55):
To be honest with you.

Speaker 6 (01:11:57):
Last ten years has been bloody, lonely, but it's been
a better life.

Speaker 3 (01:12:02):
I'm really glad that you found something that worked for you,
even though it was really tough. Thanks very much for
the call, Steve. Now are we're going to go to Matthew?
Welcome to the show?

Speaker 10 (01:12:12):
Are you a long time?

Speaker 8 (01:12:13):
They're here?

Speaker 3 (01:12:14):
How are you.

Speaker 7 (01:12:17):
We?

Speaker 10 (01:12:17):
About six months ago? I was an odissy house. But
now I've come out and I've just dug myself in
a deep, deep hole on going through rejection with the family.
I just don't know what to do. The whole family
is I'm just the whole family is rejecting me. I
just want to get back into my addiction, and I
just do not know what to do.

Speaker 3 (01:12:35):
How long you've been out of Odissey.

Speaker 10 (01:12:36):
meThe about six months?

Speaker 3 (01:12:39):
Okay, what supports have you had in place since you
since you left Odyssey?

Speaker 10 (01:12:44):
Well, I've moved to Nelson. I'm actually engaging with the
White House at the moment right and they're helping me.
But then I just feel that I'll mess you in
a rediction stage and I just do not know what
to do.

Speaker 3 (01:13:00):
Well, I think it's great that you can recognize what
stage that you're in and you have some words to
be able to describe it. Sounds like you're familiar with
what you describe as that addiction stage.

Speaker 10 (01:13:10):
Of rejection and I'm just backing my addiction again. I
just I don't really know where I'm in between a
rock and a hard place at the moment.

Speaker 3 (01:13:20):
Yeah, have you been attending are in a since you
came out Odyssey?

Speaker 5 (01:13:26):
Oh?

Speaker 10 (01:13:27):
No, I haven't, or I want to indege, but i'mos.
I'm at the stage where I don't think it's right
at the moment.

Speaker 3 (01:13:37):
What makes it feel not right?

Speaker 10 (01:13:40):
I just feel that I'm will help in rediction and.

Speaker 3 (01:13:44):
All it right. Are you worried about being rejected by
the groups? Yeah, Suz. What's what's a way to get
yourself along to AA or an NA group if you're
feeling anxious about it and you're worried about attending a group?

Speaker 7 (01:13:59):
Well, firstly, Matthew, hi, and I don't know anyone who
doesn't feel anxious at their first going along to a
group of any sort, whether it's NA or AA. You
will be feeling anxious. That's because you know you're alive
and the thing to do is you can just go along.

(01:14:21):
Do you know anyone who goes to any of those meetings.

Speaker 10 (01:14:24):
Oh, you've got a real good friend who lives on
else and he goes along. But then you asked me
to go along, but I haven't had the choage to go.

Speaker 7 (01:14:31):
That's what I would do. I'd go with your mate
and just tell him that you're anxious and you know
you're right. It does take courage and you will have courage.
Just because you're scared doesn't mean that you haven't got courage.
And if you've got a mate and he goes along,
that's what I would do, because that's exactly what Kyl
was saying around have you got any support? And you

(01:14:54):
know if you're feeling, you're not going to be rejected actually,
just so you know, because the only requirement for membership
in AA or NA is a desire to make some change,
you know, to stop using, So no one's to reject you.

Speaker 10 (01:15:10):
It's just said I've been ridictive from family and then
so I've been feeling years the last time I spoke
to Carl, Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:15:17):
Yeah, I can really understand them. It's I'm really glad
you gave us a call. I really like Susie's advice.
I think the thing is too is that even though
you feel like things are sliding in the wrong direction
at the moment, it actually just takes one step in
the other direction. You can you just take that one
step tomorrow, just one day at a time, and maybe
just make a commitment to yourself and just to give

(01:15:39):
your friend a text or a call when you know
that they're going to wake up today on Monday, and
just do that next step. Don't have to worry about
the big pan.

Speaker 10 (01:15:47):
I've got a chancer at the White House. Great, they
caught good people. That's a Nels in the White House.
You would have heard about it.

Speaker 3 (01:15:54):
I have heard of it. Yeah, No, I'm pleased to
hear that you're engaged with them. It wouldn't it be
great if you could go along to your counseling appointment
this week and tell them that you got to got
along to a to a group with your mate.

Speaker 8 (01:16:05):
Yeah.

Speaker 10 (01:16:05):
More, That's what I'm going to do. So you're off
the phone and absolutely take some of my meeting you days.
If I'll get any trouble, just ring them twenty fourth,
even though I'll just have a talk.

Speaker 3 (01:16:13):
About there you go. It's twelve fifty three. That's more
than an adequate time to give him about give them
a call, make that commitment to get along to the
next group.

Speaker 10 (01:16:22):
I want to give up my dictionary.

Speaker 3 (01:16:24):
I hear that, Matthew, and I know that you're doing
you work. You've worked really hard on it, and there's
no reason why you can't keep working hard. And why
do you give us a call in the next couple
of weeks and let us know how you got on.

Speaker 10 (01:16:33):
Yeah, yep, yeah, we'd love to hear from your gain.
You always you're you've always been an inspiration to me.

Speaker 3 (01:16:39):
Oh cheers Matthew. Well, you're an inspiration to us here
on the show. You keep up the hard work. Take
care mate. Yeah, and we've got another lovely suggestion here
from one of our texts out there in the Nutter's Club,
if you can get a list of AA meetings, sometimes
there's a phone number of someone that can pick you

(01:17:00):
up and take you. Thanks, Ma, that's so true, Andrew.
What I'm curious about is what does your life look
like now now that you're in recovery here on the
show telling us all about it. What's your life like?

Speaker 4 (01:17:13):
Oh, it's beyond my wildest dreams. Yeah, I'm going to
be thirty years celebrating thirty years in my own recovery
on the first of April.

Speaker 3 (01:17:24):
Fantastic.

Speaker 4 (01:17:26):
My son has completely grown up and living a life
a credit to himself. He is, and he still loves
me and I go on holidays with him. I'm an actor.
I had a very successful career in television, film and
television for twenty odd years. I retired five years ago.

(01:17:48):
I go on holiday. I'm driving Miss Daisy as a
little joh yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:17:56):
I see those cars driving around often. I thought that
would be quite nice.

Speaker 4 (01:17:59):
I do quite a lot of service in my fellowships,
and I attend about four meetings a week to keep
myself sane.

Speaker 3 (01:18:06):
And safely in the mainstay for you, hasn't it the
NA twelve step program?

Speaker 4 (01:18:11):
Absolutely? Yeah, I have a sponsor. Yep, who's sitting not
six feet.

Speaker 3 (01:18:17):
Away from it?

Speaker 8 (01:18:19):
And what is it?

Speaker 3 (01:18:19):
What is actually? To people who don't know, what is
having a sponsor? Mean, what's what's that relationship?

Speaker 4 (01:18:24):
Well, it's we have the twelve steps in NA and
AA and it's a it's a sort of sort of
a therapy. Really, isn't it? You write an answer to
questions about the impact that addiction has had on your
life and any people you've harmed, and maybe make amends

(01:18:45):
to those people and.

Speaker 3 (01:18:49):
Be in you work the program as the program. Yeah, yeah,
What would you say to anyone out there who's been
listening tonight who is maybe just started to have those
sorts of I think I might have a problem, but
I don't know what to do. What would your advice
to them be?

Speaker 4 (01:19:08):
Well, as we've talked about meetings, if you don't feel
like going to in person ones, if you just want
to see what it feels like to be at a meeting,
you can go online AA or NA, or you can
go along in person to a meeting. You can go
to CADS. One's the full name for.

Speaker 7 (01:19:27):
CATS Community Alcohol and Drug Services.

Speaker 4 (01:19:30):
Yeah. They're very good for kind of people who are
just starting to maybe think that they.

Speaker 3 (01:19:36):
Might perhaps just start to think about it.

Speaker 4 (01:19:39):
Yeah, and then you know there are rehabs, there are
there's detox, there's a.

Speaker 3 (01:19:46):
Lot of supporter out there. And is it worse worth it?

Speaker 5 (01:19:49):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (01:19:50):
Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (01:19:54):
Well that's it for this episode of The Nutters Club.
Thanks very much to host and psychotherapist Carl McDonald, addiction
specialist Susie Morrison and of course our guest Andrea. If
you liked what you heard and you think it might
help someone out there, then please share this episode on
your own channels or with family and friends. And if
you ever want to be part of the show, just

(01:20:16):
give us a call or a text. When we broadcast
live on News Talk SEADB eleven pm Sunday nights, New
Zealand standard time, check out Newstalk SDB, dot co dot
MZ for local frequencies or a link to the live stream.

Speaker 3 (01:20:30):
A big thanks to.

Speaker 2 (01:20:31):
New Zealand on Air for their ongoing support in making
this show. Take care and always remember that the world
is a better place with you in it. Life it
isn't easy, it is, however worth it.

Speaker 1 (01:20:50):
For more from News Talk SAIDB, listen live on air
or online, and keep our shows with you wherever you
go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio.