November 13, 2025 • 43 mins
In the latest episode of The Nutters Club, host Hamish Williams and psychotherapist Kyle McDonald delved into the critical topics of perseverance, resilience, and mental health.
This week’s discussion cantered on the importance of developing resilience and the ability to persevere through difficult times. With the cost of living rising and many facing job insecurity, the conversation explored how individuals can sustain their mental health and push through adversity.
With the help of callers and testers to the show Williams and McDonald explored how individuals can sustain their mental health and push through adversity. McDonald emphasised the significance of maintaining a healthy lifestyle, staying connected with others, and addressing challenges head-on rather than avoiding them. He noted that procrastination often exacerbates difficulties, as the anticipation of a task can feel more overwhelming than the task itself.
Listeners contributed their personal experiences and insights, adding depth to the conversation. One caller shared a quote from Mark Twain: “If it’s your job to eat a frog, it’s best to do it first thing in the morning. And if it’s your job to eat two frogs, it’s best to eat the biggest one first.” This advice resonated with the audience and sparked a discussion on tackling difficult tasks early to make the rest of the day feel more manageable.
Another caller, Jay, shared his journey of overcoming a fear of social interaction by actively engaging with strangers and making an effort to connect. His story highlighted the power of small actions, such as smiling and initiating conversations, in fostering a sense of community and improving mental well-being.
The episode also touched on the importance of seeking support during times of grief and loss. A listener shared her experience of coping with the recent death of her son’s childhood friend, emphasising the need for open communication and professional help. McDonald recommended resources such as the Mental Health Foundation’s support groups and the Citizens Advice Bureau for those seeking assistance.
The show concluded with a reminder of the importance of reaching out for help when struggling with mental health challenges. Williams encouraged listeners to utilise services like the 24/7 mental health helpline, 1737, and to remember that “the world’s a better place with you in it.”
The Nutters Club continues to provide a platform for meaningful conversations about mental health, offering support and guidance to listeners across New Zealand and beyond.
Thanks to New Zealand on Air for their support in making this content.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:08):
You're listening to a podcast from News Talk SEDB. Follow
this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Greetings and welcome. I'm Hamish Williams and you're listening to
the podcast version of The Nutters Club, a radio show
about mental health broadcast weekly on news Talk ZEDB. Each
week we have conversations about topics relating to how we
manage our mental health and the hope that it might
help you with your own. The show is broadcast live
(00:43):
on Sunday nights on Newstalk s EDB right across New
Zealand and around the world. This week we talked about
the importance of perseverance resilience, having the fortitude to continue
through challenging times. Psychotherapist Carl McDonald outlines why it's so
important to develop the skill and thanks to our callers
(01:05):
and people texting in, we got a massive amount of
insight into what really works. Let us know what you
think as well as what you learn from our chat
on any of our social media platforms. Just search for
the Nutters Club in Z. Let's get into this week's episode.
I wanted to have a chat with you tonight. We're
coming to the end of the year right, and I
(01:27):
think as we've heard through so much in the news
and we can see it that we know that people
are having a really tough time out there, cost of
living is incredibly high, that this gets reflected by just
how many people are still jumping on planes and heading
to Australia an almost daily basis. I saw a story
during the week, actually it was out of a reporter
(01:50):
in Wellington, and they were saying that they were talking
to flight a tent people at the check encounter at
in New Zealand and they said there would be at
least one on every plane leaving Wellington going to Australia permanently.
And they know because of what the baggage looks like
because they're taking everything that they can, right, they're pushing
(02:13):
it to the max, getting theose three bags for the
Xtra eighty five bucks, you know, whatever it is, and
that this idea that you know, they're going somewhere else.
And so that's great. But for a lot of us,
for various reasons, we can't do that. We can't go
to Australia. It's actually not an option, or at least
it doesn't feel like it's an option. So we have
(02:35):
to persevere and find a way to be able to
go forward. And if you've got a job and you're
going well and you know you're managed and keep that
job down, that's great. But it doesn't mean that things
are any cheaper, right, it doesn't mean that the challenges
are really if you don't have a job and you're
still out there and you're applying for hundreds and hundreds
and hundreds of jobs, and we've had people on the
(02:56):
show talking about that we have and we know, I mean,
I know within my own circle, I know people in
those circumstances, and it's just terrible that it feels demoralizing.
So there heads to at some point though, because so
much of that is out of your control, right, you know,
you can keep applying for the jobs, but ultimately you've
got to wait for the timing, that the opportunity, a
(03:18):
bit of luck to be able to come your way.
So in doing all of that, you've got to be
able to find a way to be able to sustain
your perseverance or you know, there's a whole bunch of
different words we can use for it, resilience, And I
wondered about how do we find that what makes that
(03:39):
work for us. So when it comes to preserving our
mental health, we need to have our mental health to
be at its best, to be able to sustain perseverance,
continue our resilience. But when we're having week after week
after week of what seems like unstoppable challenges come our way,
it weirs us down. So I want to talk tonight
(04:01):
about what people do to be able to continue having
that perseverance and stain their resilience. But from a clinical
point of view, Cole like, what is the part that
perseverance and that resilience piece, What is it that that
plays in our mental health? Like, how does it come about?
What does it do?
Speaker 3 (04:20):
Yeah, well, I mean I think it's a different question
is to say, you know, what is it what do
we need to do to ensure we can do hard things?
And when we think about what sorts of things are hard, again,
it doesn't have to be the biggies. It doesn't have
to be finding the job after three months of searching,
(04:41):
or you know, dealing with a job loss, or you know,
dealing with a loss of a family member, or often
you know, it can be the little things that can
be really hard. You know that the keeping going at
this time of year, even when you have a job
that you're not happy in, or even just getting some
of those jobs done around the house that you're too
exhausted to sort of tackle. So I think, you know,
(05:02):
when it comes to doing hard things, when we look
at the emotions of that, a lot of times it
comes down to a very simple idea, which is, how
do we push ourselves to do things that we actually
don't feel like doing. To take a really simple example,
how do we get ourselves out of bed in the
morning on a Monday when we really don't feel like
going to work.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
That's a great question for me. I mean, I'll kick
it off. For me, it's just the blind panic of
how many things I have to do during the week.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
Yeah, so panic anxiety can actually be a really useful
emotion in the right context that can push us to
do the thing that we need to do. If I
don't turn up to work and I'm late, I'm going
to get my pay doctor, I'm going to get told off.
So actually, some of those feelings can be really useful.
But actually a lot of times I think it's about
how do we keep the tank topped up? How do
(05:50):
we make sure that we're doing all of those boring
things that we talk about, sleeping, eating, not drinking too much,
making sure we stay connected with people. And I think
importantly if you are tackling something really hard, to make
sure that you do have somewhere that you're able to
kind of vent or talk about it. You know, it
doesn't have to be a therapist or accounts, so it
(06:11):
could just be a mate, hopefully it's your partner. But
actually recognizing that bottling it up doesn't help. And of
course also that recognizing a lot of times how we
get ourselves into trouble with hard things is we avoid them,
We put them off, we procrastinate, we do the easy
things first, and actually then what happens is sometimes the
hard thing gets bigger. But actually often what happens is
(06:32):
it gets bigger in our mind.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
So we tend to do we over complicate things in
the construction of how we think about it.
Speaker 3 (06:40):
Well, it's a thing where actually the anticipation's worse than
the thing, you know, like actually a lot of times
we build it up. Anxiety is really terrible for this.
We build up the thought of, you know, having the
performance review. We build up a huge amount of anxiety
around that we tell ourselves a story, a negative story,
over and over again, until it feels like we've actually
already done it and it was awful, And so we
(07:02):
want to avoid the real thing as opposed to being
able to again do what feels hard, lean into doing
the thing that we don't feel like doing, and find
a way to lean into that difficulty. And sometimes it
is about actually just keeping our mind in the present.
I think one of the other things that really kills
us with hard things is not getting a break from them,
(07:22):
which is again when we think about emotions, anxiety in
particular is really good at holding our attention, keeping us
focused on the thing that we're anxious about. So particularly
if we're trying to say, you know, find a job
or overcome a big problem, it's exhausting if all we
do is think about it.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
Let's go to Helene good Hello, good evening to you, Oh,
good evening to you.
Speaker 4 (07:49):
Look on the subject of procrastination, I just wanted to
share a quotation from Mark Twain. He's the guy who wrote.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Hucklebury's Sense Indeed.
Speaker 4 (08:01):
Yeah, so he had some very wise words to share
with people. If it's your job to eat a frog,
it's best to do it first thing in the morning.
And if it's your job to eat two frogs, it's
best to eat the biggest ones first.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
I love that I've heard about that, you know, eat
the frog, but I didn't know that it came from
Mark Twain.
Speaker 4 (08:26):
Okay, oh, well, there you go.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
That's fantastic. And look, you know, have you have you
had times in your life where you've had to eat
a giant frog first thing in the morning.
Speaker 4 (08:36):
Well, we all, and you know, like most people, I've
I've I've put off that task for as long as
I can, and then of course it's much harder when
you finally get around doing it. So it's very very
good advice really just the just the biggest task first
and as early as possible in the day, just get
(08:59):
it over with.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
When what sort of stuff do you have? You have
you had to combat early in the morning then and
get through.
Speaker 4 (09:08):
Oh god, where do I start? You know, just just
all little things that come up in the average day,
and then some of the some of the more spectacular
problems that we have to deal with. I'm sure that
everybody can relate to that in somewhere or another. So,
(09:31):
you know, just just the average day. Really, there are
always things that need to be done to be got
out of the way before you can really sort of
relax and enjoy doing you know, enjoy the tasks that
you still have to fulfill during the rest of the day.
Just get rid of the biggest ones first.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
And how do you feel when you've actually you know,
managed to push through and despite you know, perhaps not
wanting to do it, how do you feel after you
have actually done it? Oh?
Speaker 4 (10:04):
Well, you know you generally feel quite a sense of relief.
It's done, and you know it's no longer sort of
a bogey man. It's something that's lingering and you know,
haunting your day with its inevitability. So you know, just
(10:24):
get it out of the way and you can relax
and as I said, enjoy the rest of the day without.
Speaker 5 (10:29):
That hanging over you.
Speaker 4 (10:32):
Absolutely, it's very very good advice. Really. So if it's
your job to eat a frog, it's best tweet first
thing in the morning. And if it's your job to
eat two frogs, it's best tweet the biggest one first.
I reckon, there's the wise words.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
Got it? No? I think that's excellent And thank you
very much for bringing Mark Twain's credit back to the
frog story. Like I said, I didn't know that, but
now I do. Thank you my pleasure.
Speaker 5 (11:02):
You have a great evening.
Speaker 4 (11:03):
You go well, and Tash Morrow, of course, which it's
we're practice, will.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
Be there momentarily. Don't you worry about that? Okay, brilliant, Yeah, okay,
so really good advice.
Speaker 3 (11:16):
Oh I love that. I actually haven't heard that quote.
Oh no, I mean we have a much more boring
way of talking about it in my field, which is
it's actually one of the main anti avoidance strategies. We
talk about, this idea of avoiding avoiding, and a fantastic
anti avoidance strategy is to do exactly that. To whatever
you've got to tackle that day, do the hardest thing first,
(11:39):
and when you think about it, the reason for that
is because it means actually everything gets easier from then
on out.
Speaker 4 (11:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
Yeah, I'm trying to think why why you put things
off sometimes too, you know, And I think it is
that you get this prevailing sense. For me, at least,
I get a prevailing sense that it's going to take
me longer than I've got time to do, and so
I keep thinking about, oh, well, I'll do it when
i've got time. I'll do it when I've got time,
and actually it's just like, well, maybe you should just
start now.
Speaker 3 (12:07):
Well, one of the problems with a procrastination is that
moment when we decide not to do it, it's incredibly rewarding,
so we actually train ourselves into avoidance if we're not careful.
Each time we go, oh, I don't want to do
that right now, and we get that little jolt of relief.
It's like a little reward. We're rewarding ourselves for doing
exactly the wrong thing in that moment, and over time
we can train ourselves into procrastination and avoid its quite quickly.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
I'm just starting to think about my to do list
for the next week and yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:34):
Hopefully there's not too many frogs on it.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
Not yet, not yet, but it's early yet. Let's see
what happens. Okay, we've got a text here, Kyle, and
I'm instered in your feedback on this one. Yeah, someone
with exactly that. So Texter has texted and and she says,
and I won't read your name out because it's not
sort of important, but she just say, my husband just
moved out and I'm trying to deal with it doing
(12:58):
non contact, but it's all just a bit too hard.
We were together for forty years, but he told me
that he wants to eat at fancy restaurants and travel
and have no responsibility. So in terms of a relationship
breakdown and trying to do the non contact, and by
the sound of it, it sounds like having different ideas
(13:21):
about what life could look like. That's quite a challenge
to overcome.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
Oh, that's huge, that's absolutely huge. Absolutely. I mean, I
know I say this a lot, but and this in
particular especially mean it. In this instance, after forty years,
I really think you need to be talking with somebody,
whether it's a counselor or a therapist. I think you
need that support because I think there's going to be
a lot of feelings to process and it's going to
(13:48):
take a bit of time to work through that grief
and that adjustment and to recognize that actually you're allowed
to have whatever feelings you might have about that, whether
that be sadness or grief or anger, rage, disappointment, betrayal,
or actually just desperately wanting him back. You know, to
be able to, as you say, deal with no contact
(14:09):
feels really kind of harsh.
Speaker 5 (14:12):
To me.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
So I'm really sorry to hear that, and I think
it's really incredibly important that you get some support and
recognize that it's actually okay for this to be a
hard time. That's a really long time and a lot
of grief that you're going to be processing, but that
it's also okay to distract. You know, you don't have
to be in it all of the time. So whether
that's time with friends or trying to do things that
(14:34):
you might you know, have enjoyed once upon time and
don't feel like doing at the moment, do them anyway,
Do the things you don't feel like doing, because they
might just help to.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
It's interesting, you know, just what sounds to me like,
you know, when you've been together forty years. So I'm
going to guess that maybe this might be a little
bit about what retirement looks like too, for anyone who's
in a long term relationship. I got this advice long
time ago, and it's actually constantly have the conversation over
what that looks like.
Speaker 3 (15:06):
I agree and have the conversation, what do the next
five years look like, what are the next ten years
look like? What do you want? What are we going
to do together? What much you want to do separately,
and you know, what are your individual goals because as
you say, Haymish, it's really important to make sure you
stay on the same page.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
Jay, Well, it will change. Yeah, it's the art of
truth kind of should change. Yeah, yeah, I mean, I
mean I've been I've been with you know, my my
now wife, you know, over a decade, and I think
in that time, you know, our goals and aspirations have
definitely changed. I don't think they're any more boring or
less exciting or more exciting than what they were. But
(15:42):
there were things that we thought that we wanted to do,
places we thought we wanted to go, maybe even move.
And now we're kind of like we talk about it
quite regularly, and we'll be like, whoa were thinking, you know,
we sort of you know, are we going to move
to such and such? Oh my goodness, we would have
been bored or sometimes even you know, there's been ideas
that we had and then we sort of see that,
(16:03):
you know, something else has happened and that that idea
would have been a just catastrophically bad and you kind
of go, oh, I'm really glad that we talked about.
So look, you know, all the best to you to
the text and who's going through. But yeah, I think
really good there to understand that forty years is a
long time. Yeah, absolutely, so you probably want to take
it easy on yourself. Okay, let's have a look here.
(16:25):
Lewis textan and says, look, this is easy as said
than done. But for me, don't think just do you
only live once?
Speaker 3 (16:34):
Yeah, I think that's good advice. That's one of those
things that actually sometimes we just need to recognize that
if we're waiting to feel like doing something, we might
be waiting for a long time. I mean, you know,
really small example, sometimes I find it a bit challenging
to get out of bed in the morning on a Monday.
Funnily enough, I do have a little bit of a
sleep in, but I have a routine where I get up,
I go to the gym, start the week with the gym,
(16:55):
and then head off to work. And sometimes I literally
have to say just get out of bed, like, don't
think about the next thing, don't think about breakfast, coffee,
getting out the door, any of that stuff. Just literally
get your body out of bed. And it's kind of
like once you get moving, you can Okay, all right,
off we go. Then, So sometimes it can be useful
(17:16):
literally to just focus on the next thing.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
Yeah, just start, Yeah, one foot in front of the other.
Frank has texted in and he just says, Hi, stop it.
What you're talking about is all to do with attitude.
Nothing is hard. It's positive attitude, and you have to
work on that otherwise negative will rule your life. Cheers Frank, Frank.
(17:41):
Some Frank information from Frank.
Speaker 3 (17:42):
Absolutely I agree up to a point. I mean, I'm
going to quibble, if that's right, quibbling. Some things are hard,
and it's okay that they're hard, and we're allowed to
have the feelings about them, but that doesn't mean not
doing them, because I think sometimes positive attitude only takes
us so far. Sometimes positive attitude can look like actually
(18:05):
giving ourselves a hard time because we might be having
so called negative feelings about something. It's okay to have
those feelings, but we can do it anyway. We can
still do hard things when we're tired or upset or anxious.
It just means sometimes having to kind of give ourselves
a bit of a hug and a kick in the
bum at the same time, if that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
A hug and a kick in the bar at the
same time. Yeah, sounds complicated, but I'm always up for
a challenge.
Speaker 3 (18:30):
A little bit of a contortionist move, but as possible.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
Bill Good even to you.
Speaker 6 (18:35):
Hello good, Ohomish hadn't spoken to the notice line for
a while, but I was interested when the lady rang
up about the frogs earlier. But I'll come back to
that in a second, because i just wanted to say,
for sort of my own self confidence, etc. I've always
(18:56):
I've never looked at people. I hate the word compare,
but I've never looked at people better off than me
or luckier than me. But I think how luckier I
am when I look to people who have sort of
had harder times in life than me, and it sort
(19:17):
of helps me going, not just to help myself, but
to help others as well in this social context. Now,
with the frog that lady mentioned before had to be
one and only Mark Mark Twain when he said do
the big things first and the little ones will come
(19:38):
easier late. It's total in disagreement what teachers said to
us older people sixty years ago, let's say, when we
sat down for through our school certificate examination, when they
would say look, get rid of all the easy stuff first,
(20:01):
you know, the lower mark stuff first, before you get
onto the big one with the harder one with the
most marks, because you might finish that anyway, and you've
left the others, you've run out of time with the others.
But I have found now I sort of agree, you know,
(20:22):
with you know the frog thing too, But sometimes I
think it's easier to get the little ones out of
the way as well. So I'm just sort of sitting
on the bents on that. But I just wanted to
Mark Twain as one of my My life's been full
(20:42):
of reading biographies and and autobiographies, and I always want
to sort of see how famous people got on through
their lives doing things and being successful and things like that,
and Mark Mark Twain I absolutely love. And one of
(21:02):
his quotes that's said most more than anything else, of course,
is the one which I think most listeners will agree with,
is that so there are three types of lies, lies,
damn lies, statistics.
Speaker 5 (21:19):
And when.
Speaker 6 (21:21):
I see the government, you know, figures and others throwing
statistics at each other every week, whether it's to do
with housing or inflation or whatever it is, I think
to myself gosh, you know what lies they all tell,
et cetera, because you know, you can find ways to
twist statistics and figures and you know, all sorts of things.
(21:43):
But just to conclude, I wanted to the other guy
I absolutely love for motivation is is young Well, Oscar Wilde.
Of course his gain comes.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
Up the other side of the pond. But yes, yeah,
I like these literary grapes.
Speaker 6 (21:59):
And Oscar, you know, was full of self, you know, confidence,
et cetera. He had very tough times in the life.
Of course, you know, he went to jail over because
he couldn't pay a fine, or he was fined by
a family for something or the other. When when he
arrived at was it Ellis Island or the customers in
(22:23):
New York, you know, on a speaking tour of America
to raise money, they asked him, and what have you
got to declare? And he said, only my genius. And
because he then in Lady Windermere's Fan, which at one
of his favorite plays, the socialites were talking to each
(22:47):
other and one came in. A third person came into
the party, and he said that there's one thing worse
than being talked about, and that's not being talked about.
And so many people get upset, you know, about being
talked about, et cetera, behind their back. It mates, family,
(23:09):
all sorts of people, et cetera. They forget. Next week
it'll be forgotten and someone else will be getting the
someone else will be talked about instead. Finally, finally, Winston Churchill.
Of course, he's most famous for, you know, the black
Dog arriving depression. When he's depression, and he made his
(23:32):
famous quote was when you're going through hell, don't stop,
just keep going and love it, because you know, everyone
in their life they tell the truth has gone through
hell at some stage. But I don't know whether he
was the one who said also that the road to
(23:55):
hell is full of good intentions.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
Yeah, I've heard that one before. Paved with good intentions
is the other one I've heard. Yes, be careful what you.
Speaker 6 (24:04):
Promise, etc. So the quote, I've got book, so you
know the quote. You know famous people, that Kennedy, you
know all sorts of other you know people, et cetera.
But it's just sort of wonderful having a laugh reading them,
and you get it. I get inspired from them and
(24:24):
I have a good laugh because so many of them
have come true, just like the Lady and the Frog.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
Yeah. Yeah, And I think if you've stumbled on something here, Bill,
which I think is really good for us to know,
is actually being able to have those quotes. You know
we're kind of talking about, you know, Mark Twain, Oscar Wilde,
even JFK. You know that these are people that are
from different eras, some multiple generations ago, but you know,
(24:53):
even Winston Churchill, they went through the same, similar things
in terms of the mental health experience that we've had.
It might be that the language that we used to
talk about mental health might feel new, but actually it's
been around forever and ever, and these were just different
ways of people expressing it. And I think I don't
(25:13):
know about you, Bilbert. I'm going to make an assumption here,
but please correct me if I'm wrong. It feels kind
of comforting to know that people went through the same
sort of thing and are able to we're able to
articulate it back in the day.
Speaker 6 (25:26):
That is right, It is exactly right. It makes you
feel better, but you're not on your own. Others got
through it, persevered somehow, and got out of it great.
Talking to you. Look, I may have talked to Kyle
a few years ago with Mike King or someone else.
But last time I rang, I think I was chatting
(25:49):
to Martin Crowe for about ten or fifteen minutes he
was guest on your show. And also before that, I
think Mike Ken when I told Mike that i'd actually been.
I had worked for the government on the on mental
health questionnaire research I think it was two thousand and
(26:10):
seven or two thousand and six, and which took me
to the Chatham Islands, into jails everywhere, et cetera. And
I didn't know that this was New Zealand. I thought
New Zealand was a different place than what I heard,
and I still find today well, I find today worse
than what it ever has been. And doctor McDonald Fras MacDonald,
(26:36):
who was eminent New Zealand psychologist and head of all
the mental asylums you can think of, said to me
at a meeting in nineteen seventy one that he brought
out this word suburban neurosis and various others, and he
said it it was morally criminal the way that young mothers,
(26:57):
you know, would treat it in New Zealand, you know,
after having babies and so on, you know, being on
their own the mental scenes, and I was reminded of
that and that we'd had I'm fround the country that
first item on the news and so on. But I
watched a program last night on television called malpractice, and
the English came up with some beauty great programs, and
(27:20):
it's on Tomorrow night or Monday night as well. But
that is absolutely brilliant. And if you hadn't seen it,
or on your listeners hadn't seen it, see it because
it is really really good.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
You know, I'll put it on malpractice. Is that what
you said?
Speaker 6 (27:42):
Male practice?
Speaker 5 (27:44):
Yeah?
Speaker 6 (27:44):
There was another one after about murder Murdoch's in a
news of the world called the hack Tony, Toby James
and David Tennant. Well watched this male practice because it
brings to mind everything that I still know and know
about is working for eight years as a researcher for
the Ministry of Health in England.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
Well, thank you, thank you, Bill, And I love I
love those quotes that you've you've given us. But I
think those are, like I said, I think it's quite
comforting to know that it's nothing new, and I.
Speaker 3 (28:18):
Think actually it's interesting what emerges when we throw these
things out into the into the listening world, isn't it,
because so far quotes and I would actually absolutely endorse
reading biographies and autobiographies of the things that people ordinary
and famous have overcome in their lives, because it's actually
kind of what we do on the show too, is helpful.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
Go straight back to the lines, We'll talk to Jay Jay,
good even to.
Speaker 7 (28:43):
You, good evening, pain and all of the zeland. I
try to share a little bit what I've been through
in my life. My dad knows only three years old.
It's a terrible cancer. And my mother remarried. Goth is
a kind of violent alcohol, and they used always put
me down, bust me around and off and give me
(29:05):
a hearty with thanks and okra and wood. So through
my younger days, I've got a real I call it
a fear of man syndrome. It's a syndrome. And I
wouldn't I couldn't trust other males, other men, and even adults.
So through my life I used to go around looking
down all the time, and I didn't want to look
(29:26):
at people when I went down to the hut of
the shops or whatever. And I found amazing that as
I was walking along looking down lots of other people
were also looking down. I wouldn't look at me. But
over the years I've been bold and I've started walking
and looking at people and spying at people, given them
(29:47):
a note just technology, and sometimes I get such a
surprise that they style back. And I even talked to
complete strangers and the Sumac because I've just lante to
overcome a fear of men boy, just being more positive
and spying at people and just being fairmy but a lot,
you know, if other people had to stand, why do
(30:08):
people or rocking down when they're walking along? Many people
walk down and don't seem to want to look at
you or connect. And I've just found that just being
more open and a lot being open a silent people
are acknowledging people has kind of helped me have a
lot more healthier respecting good over's terrible fear of me.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
I don't I like that, Jay, I really like what
you're talking about, because what I'm hearing you say is
actually is being the change that you want to see. Yeah,
you know, and I think that that's really hard because
sometimes you know, you think about You're like, wow, how
come people don't you know, give me a bit of
eye contact on the street or you know, give me,
(30:51):
give me, give me a little smile, and then you think, well, jeez,
what am I doing? And then so the fact that
you're doing it, Jay, you know, you're actually putting it
into action. That's and that someone's got to go first, right,
and you've decided that that's what you're going to do,
and I ammend you well done.
Speaker 7 (31:09):
Yeah. Well, I'm getting better at the seas market too,
even talking where the oldies down. I choose wars and
now I'm getting more bolder just to be friendly and
talk to people, behin me and in front and and
people please when yeah, you talk to them, be friendy
and they really open up and so they please that
someone is talking to them as well. They've got about
three hundred dollars old to pay for their groceries and
(31:31):
I have probably about twenty people are looking forward to
being acknowledged, and I think a smile can go a
long way. That's a bunch of but that's one of
other people. Notice that the people look down when they're
walking around the street, caught off and there's other people
seeing its are just they think for you a love
(31:52):
I lost you guys every Sunday night. And I enjoy
what you're sharing, but your need help to get a
better self esteem and happy a lot.
Speaker 2 (32:01):
Well, no, and I think the things for that, Javid,
and I really like it. And I'm thinking about when
I when I'm walking around, what I see people doing.
I'll tell you what I see a lot of people
doing looking on their phones. Ye see that a lot
worse now.
Speaker 7 (32:16):
They even walk into you sometimes. I think.
Speaker 2 (32:21):
I saw a guy. I saw a guy take himself
out on a lamp wall. He didn't take himself out,
but he did go straight into the lamp post.
Speaker 3 (32:27):
Just this week.
Speaker 7 (32:27):
Actually going to watch some of the older people when
they drive those trolleys at high speed around the supermarkets too.
They can take your shins out.
Speaker 2 (32:38):
A drive by shinning. That's your local Woolworth's. Yeah right, okay, Jay,
thanks thanks for the call. And I think you're really
right and and well done on like I said, being
that change that you want to see.
Speaker 7 (32:50):
Yeah, I have to say so, it won't happen if
I don't initiate. You know, you can keeps looking down,
but we're meant to be looking at right and being
growth for in a fantastic country. And I think you
can all enjoy a bit of warmth.
Speaker 6 (33:05):
And a smile.
Speaker 7 (33:06):
They even smile over the phone people. Now that's no.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
I'd tell you what it's not, because actually, if you do,
people can hear it in the way that you talk
true story.
Speaker 3 (33:17):
They can.
Speaker 2 (33:17):
Yeah, I can tell you right now, Kyle and I
sit here with smiling like idiots as well to just
what you're doing it right now, I know. And that's
the point, is actually just being genuinely genuine and how
you want to communicate with people. Well done, Jay. In
fact that I'm going to take a quote from Jay.
We've had Oscar Wilde and Mark Twain, Winston Churchill quoted tonight,
(33:39):
but the one I like from Jay tonight. It won't
happen unless I initiate it.
Speaker 3 (33:43):
It's perfect. And actually what it also illustrates, and thanks
J for bringing this to our attention, is that one
of the things about doing hard things is sometimes when
we start doing something different, we also feel different and
maybe it doesn't feel as hard as we thought.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
So actually, to change the way that you think and
feel about a situation, you need to actually change your behavior,
even if that's changing in the fact that I'm going
to do it differently. I'm going to try this new thing.
Speaker 3 (34:12):
Changing their behavior changes how we feel.
Speaker 2 (34:16):
There, you go, okay, So now we're starting to really
get into into the nitty gretting on what actually works.
So in terms of behaviors, you know, I think Jay's
example of just sort of feeling like people don't want
to connect with you, well, you know, I'm going to
start trying to connect with them and see where it
takes me. And then he's had he's had a great
response from it. So Edna, good morning to you.
Speaker 5 (34:38):
Oh hi, guys, I've got a couple of things to
tell you overcome and then the said things a bit heavy,
that's right. So you know I've done well to overcome
most of their mentalness and alcohol addiction. You know, I'm
forting there sober, and I work as a registered new
(35:00):
so work in mental health, so I mean there's a
stressful job, but you know I've overcome that. I've had
some really tough news today that my son is twenty
four and his childhood friend who they were so beautiful, Jack,
(35:21):
he completed suicide.
Speaker 2 (35:23):
I'm sorry to hear that.
Speaker 5 (35:24):
Yeah, and it's really rough. You know, I can just
see him in my mind's eye, this beaming twelve year
old boys. They drifted a pat in the last few years,
but they still knew they were in different friend groups.
So my son had been like hanging out with him
a lot. But you know, as a parent of pas,
(35:48):
imagine how the family feel. It's devastating, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
Oh, without a doubt, yep, yep, And and and genuine
genuine sympathy goes out to you know, the family is
as well as all his friends, including your son.
Speaker 5 (36:05):
M It's just a.
Speaker 6 (36:07):
Really hard thing.
Speaker 5 (36:08):
And I mean I just I just struggle to I mean,
I just struggle to process and compreshin you know, it's
pretty very unfortunately, it's all too common.
Speaker 3 (36:26):
How's your son doing with it? Is the Okay, Well, I'm.
Speaker 5 (36:31):
Not going to push him on anything. You know, he's
a bad hangover today and I'm not going to push
him because you know, he'll deal with us in his
own way.
Speaker 3 (36:42):
You know, what does that You trust him?
Speaker 5 (36:48):
I do. He's a good kid, my son, and and
you know he sees a psychologist already for bonuses, but
he has the support. So yeah, I mean, I'm sorry
to bring up a heavy topic.
Speaker 2 (37:02):
No, not at all. That that's what we're here for
in it, and we've never had any any any shine
away from talking about the stuff that it's important. I
think you know. I just wanted to say to you,
I think that you know. The thing is also when
it comes to grief, the most important thing to remember
is just let it operate on its own timetable. It
(37:23):
doesn't need to be rushed. There's no there's no sort
of rule that you know, he needs to be over
it in thirty days or anything like this. It'll most
likely linger in some way or another with him, especially
seeing as from what from what you're telling me, you
know this is a childhood friend.
Speaker 5 (37:40):
Yeah, oh definitely, and that's why it would never be
wrest him. And sometimes it's a delayed response. So I
just want everyone out there to know that if they're
having these thoughts, they they should actually reach out and
speak to someone. It's very important.
Speaker 2 (37:58):
Well, I thank you, Anna, And it's a good point
to make because here's the thing. You know that the
world is a much better place with you in it,
and the absence of you will will hurt so many people,
and ultimately the people who are closest to you, And
there's nothing there's nothing when we're talking about, you know,
(38:19):
overcoming things, right, there really is no problem that can
be overcome. You know that can't be overcome. Sorry, you
know it's it might seem hard, and in a lot
of times it will be, but there is nothing that
is in so insurmountable that we can't find a solution.
Speaker 5 (38:36):
Tregedy of but making that for now a fee of
taking his life when actually if you reach out and
talk about it, you know you don't have to take
that for enough step. I just want people to know.
Speaker 2 (38:52):
That, you know, well, look thank you in it and
look all the best to you and your boy. And
I hope that you know you can you can both
be able to have those honest conversations with each other
or not, you know, just being able to sometimes just
be there and just have somebody keep you company.
Speaker 5 (39:10):
I know, and I can tell he's sensitive, but he's
a high achievement. He'll be I think we'll all be
a river. I mean, honestly, the griefs to that family
that they will last in their whole lifetime.
Speaker 2 (39:23):
So without a doubt, without a doubt.
Speaker 5 (39:27):
Okay, well, thanks for your program, guys. I'm listening, and
I'm very appreciative.
Speaker 2 (39:33):
Oh no, look, thank you, Anna, and all the best
to you and your son. And like I say, just
take it one day at a time, one moment at
a time, and perhaps just from a mum's perspective, you
just give him a little bit of a longer hug tomorrow.
Speaker 5 (39:51):
Yeah, yeah, that's right. Okay, thanks for everything you're doing, guys.
Speaker 2 (39:54):
You go well, Anna cheers, thank you. Yeah, that is hard.
Speaker 3 (40:00):
That is hard. Just for anyone out there listening who
may benefit from this, just know that there are actually
a lot of lost by suicide support groups around the country, sadly,
because there are many people who need that service. The
Mental Health Foundation, if you go on their website or
just search Mental Health Foundation Suicide Loss, they've actually got
(40:21):
a national list of all of the groups around the country,
so you can jump on there and find that. But
also any skilled counselor or therapist can help you with that.
But it is important you get that support, not just
the family, but actually often the people close to the
person in that social circle often need that support also.
Speaker 2 (40:40):
To you may be likely hearing a lot of stuff
flying around in the news media around social services and
especially around mental health being cut or they've lost their
funding or they've reduced their hours. None of it's untrue.
It's one hundred percent true. However, there are lots of
different things happening in all of our communities. And look,
(41:01):
we know about this because we have them on the show,
because they contact us. You've just really got to sometimes
go looking for them. That's probably my only criticism of
mental community mental health services in New Zealand is that
some of them just don't promote themselves particularly well.
Speaker 3 (41:16):
Well, they're too busy helping people.
Speaker 2 (41:18):
That's the point, Kyle. Yes, they're actually busy doing the thing.
But if you have a look, you're going to actually
find you've probably got more support in your community than
you realized. Why because you've got people like Anna who
have had horrendous experiences who you know, they've lost somebody
close to them, and a lot of people make themselves
then available to be able to help others to try
(41:39):
and avoid it repeating itself.
Speaker 3 (41:41):
And you know what, if you're not so comfortable or
you're struggling to find what you might need on the
old Google, which is sort of the first place we
go these days, there's another old fashioned way to do it.
Hamish oh, it's a Citizens Advice Bureau. Not only have
they got great people who know what's in their local community,
but they've also got this old fashioned thing in there.
There's big racks with all sorts of pamphlets on it,
(42:02):
pamphlets and actually often it's a really great place to
pop along if you think you need something but you're
not sure if it exists, pop along to your cab
and they'll probably.
Speaker 2 (42:10):
Know one service too that is still operational twenty four
seven one seven three seven, which is the National Mental
Health Helpline. So it's four numbers. You don't need to
no eight hundred number or anything. You just dial one
seven three seven or text. You can text it a
little bit like us and just text us either or yeah.
Speaker 1 (42:31):
All right.
Speaker 2 (42:33):
Well that's it for this episode of The Nutters Club,
thanks to my co host, psychotherapist Carl McDonald, as well
as all our insightful callers and considered texters. If you
like what you heard and think it might help someone
out there, then please share this episode on your own
channels or with family and friends. And if you ever
want to be part of the show, give us a
(42:54):
call or text when we broadcast live on News Talk
s dB eleven pm Sunday nights, New Zealand Standard time.
Check out Newstalk SEDB, dot CO dot m Z for
local frequencies or a link to the live stream. Big
thanks to New Zealand on Air for their ongoing support
and making the show. Take care and always remember that
(43:14):
the world's a better place with you in it. Life
it isn't easy, it is, however, worth it.
Speaker 1 (43:21):
For more from News Talks at B Listen live on
air or online, and keep our shows with you wherever
you go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio
You're listening to a podcast from News Talk SEDB. Follow
this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Greetings and welcome. I'm Hamish Williams and you're listening to
the podcast version of The Nutters Club, a radio show
about mental health broadcast weekly on news Talk ZEDB. Each
week we have conversations about topics relating to how we
manage our mental health and the hope that it might
help you with your own. The show is broadcast live
(00:43):
on Sunday nights on Newstalk s EDB right across New
Zealand and around the world. This week we talked about
the importance of perseverance resilience, having the fortitude to continue
through challenging times. Psychotherapist Carl McDonald outlines why it's so
important to develop the skill and thanks to our callers
(01:05):
and people texting in, we got a massive amount of
insight into what really works. Let us know what you
think as well as what you learn from our chat
on any of our social media platforms. Just search for
the Nutters Club in Z. Let's get into this week's episode.
I wanted to have a chat with you tonight. We're
coming to the end of the year right, and I
(01:27):
think as we've heard through so much in the news
and we can see it that we know that people
are having a really tough time out there, cost of
living is incredibly high, that this gets reflected by just
how many people are still jumping on planes and heading
to Australia an almost daily basis. I saw a story
during the week, actually it was out of a reporter
(01:50):
in Wellington, and they were saying that they were talking
to flight a tent people at the check encounter at
in New Zealand and they said there would be at
least one on every plane leaving Wellington going to Australia permanently.
And they know because of what the baggage looks like
because they're taking everything that they can, right, they're pushing
(02:13):
it to the max, getting theose three bags for the
Xtra eighty five bucks, you know, whatever it is, and
that this idea that you know, they're going somewhere else.
And so that's great. But for a lot of us,
for various reasons, we can't do that. We can't go
to Australia. It's actually not an option, or at least
it doesn't feel like it's an option. So we have
(02:35):
to persevere and find a way to be able to
go forward. And if you've got a job and you're
going well and you know you're managed and keep that
job down, that's great. But it doesn't mean that things
are any cheaper, right, it doesn't mean that the challenges
are really if you don't have a job and you're
still out there and you're applying for hundreds and hundreds
and hundreds of jobs, and we've had people on the
(02:56):
show talking about that we have and we know, I mean,
I know within my own circle, I know people in
those circumstances, and it's just terrible that it feels demoralizing.
So there heads to at some point though, because so
much of that is out of your control, right, you know,
you can keep applying for the jobs, but ultimately you've
got to wait for the timing, that the opportunity, a
(03:18):
bit of luck to be able to come your way.
So in doing all of that, you've got to be
able to find a way to be able to sustain
your perseverance or you know, there's a whole bunch of
different words we can use for it, resilience, And I
wondered about how do we find that what makes that
(03:39):
work for us. So when it comes to preserving our
mental health, we need to have our mental health to
be at its best, to be able to sustain perseverance,
continue our resilience. But when we're having week after week
after week of what seems like unstoppable challenges come our way,
it weirs us down. So I want to talk tonight
(04:01):
about what people do to be able to continue having
that perseverance and stain their resilience. But from a clinical
point of view, Cole like, what is the part that
perseverance and that resilience piece, What is it that that
plays in our mental health? Like, how does it come about?
What does it do?
Speaker 3 (04:20):
Yeah, well, I mean I think it's a different question
is to say, you know, what is it what do
we need to do to ensure we can do hard things?
And when we think about what sorts of things are hard, again,
it doesn't have to be the biggies. It doesn't have
to be finding the job after three months of searching,
(04:41):
or you know, dealing with a job loss, or you know,
dealing with a loss of a family member, or often
you know, it can be the little things that can
be really hard. You know that the keeping going at
this time of year, even when you have a job
that you're not happy in, or even just getting some
of those jobs done around the house that you're too
exhausted to sort of tackle. So I think, you know,
(05:02):
when it comes to doing hard things, when we look
at the emotions of that, a lot of times it
comes down to a very simple idea, which is, how
do we push ourselves to do things that we actually
don't feel like doing. To take a really simple example,
how do we get ourselves out of bed in the
morning on a Monday when we really don't feel like
going to work.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
That's a great question for me. I mean, I'll kick
it off. For me, it's just the blind panic of
how many things I have to do during the week.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
Yeah, so panic anxiety can actually be a really useful
emotion in the right context that can push us to
do the thing that we need to do. If I
don't turn up to work and I'm late, I'm going
to get my pay doctor, I'm going to get told off.
So actually, some of those feelings can be really useful.
But actually a lot of times I think it's about
how do we keep the tank topped up? How do
(05:50):
we make sure that we're doing all of those boring
things that we talk about, sleeping, eating, not drinking too much,
making sure we stay connected with people. And I think
importantly if you are tackling something really hard, to make
sure that you do have somewhere that you're able to
kind of vent or talk about it. You know, it
doesn't have to be a therapist or accounts, so it
(06:11):
could just be a mate, hopefully it's your partner. But
actually recognizing that bottling it up doesn't help. And of
course also that recognizing a lot of times how we
get ourselves into trouble with hard things is we avoid them,
We put them off, we procrastinate, we do the easy
things first, and actually then what happens is sometimes the
hard thing gets bigger. But actually often what happens is
(06:32):
it gets bigger in our mind.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
So we tend to do we over complicate things in
the construction of how we think about it.
Speaker 3 (06:40):
Well, it's a thing where actually the anticipation's worse than
the thing, you know, like actually a lot of times
we build it up. Anxiety is really terrible for this.
We build up the thought of, you know, having the
performance review. We build up a huge amount of anxiety
around that we tell ourselves a story, a negative story,
over and over again, until it feels like we've actually
already done it and it was awful, And so we
(07:02):
want to avoid the real thing as opposed to being
able to again do what feels hard, lean into doing
the thing that we don't feel like doing, and find
a way to lean into that difficulty. And sometimes it
is about actually just keeping our mind in the present.
I think one of the other things that really kills
us with hard things is not getting a break from them,
(07:22):
which is again when we think about emotions, anxiety in
particular is really good at holding our attention, keeping us
focused on the thing that we're anxious about. So particularly
if we're trying to say, you know, find a job
or overcome a big problem, it's exhausting if all we
do is think about it.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
Let's go to Helene good Hello, good evening to you, Oh,
good evening to you.
Speaker 4 (07:49):
Look on the subject of procrastination, I just wanted to
share a quotation from Mark Twain. He's the guy who wrote.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Hucklebury's Sense Indeed.
Speaker 4 (08:01):
Yeah, so he had some very wise words to share
with people. If it's your job to eat a frog,
it's best to do it first thing in the morning.
And if it's your job to eat two frogs, it's
best to eat the biggest ones first.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
I love that I've heard about that, you know, eat
the frog, but I didn't know that it came from
Mark Twain.
Speaker 4 (08:26):
Okay, oh, well, there you go.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
That's fantastic. And look, you know, have you have you
had times in your life where you've had to eat
a giant frog first thing in the morning.
Speaker 4 (08:36):
Well, we all, and you know, like most people, I've
I've I've put off that task for as long as
I can, and then of course it's much harder when
you finally get around doing it. So it's very very
good advice really just the just the biggest task first
and as early as possible in the day, just get
(08:59):
it over with.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
When what sort of stuff do you have? You have
you had to combat early in the morning then and
get through.
Speaker 4 (09:08):
Oh god, where do I start? You know, just just
all little things that come up in the average day,
and then some of the some of the more spectacular
problems that we have to deal with. I'm sure that
everybody can relate to that in somewhere or another. So,
(09:31):
you know, just just the average day. Really, there are
always things that need to be done to be got
out of the way before you can really sort of
relax and enjoy doing you know, enjoy the tasks that
you still have to fulfill during the rest of the day.
Just get rid of the biggest ones first.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
And how do you feel when you've actually you know,
managed to push through and despite you know, perhaps not
wanting to do it, how do you feel after you
have actually done it? Oh?
Speaker 4 (10:04):
Well, you know you generally feel quite a sense of relief.
It's done, and you know it's no longer sort of
a bogey man. It's something that's lingering and you know,
haunting your day with its inevitability. So you know, just
(10:24):
get it out of the way and you can relax
and as I said, enjoy the rest of the day without.
Speaker 5 (10:29):
That hanging over you.
Speaker 4 (10:32):
Absolutely, it's very very good advice. Really. So if it's
your job to eat a frog, it's best tweet first
thing in the morning. And if it's your job to
eat two frogs, it's best tweet the biggest one first.
I reckon, there's the wise words.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
Got it? No? I think that's excellent And thank you
very much for bringing Mark Twain's credit back to the
frog story. Like I said, I didn't know that, but
now I do. Thank you my pleasure.
Speaker 5 (11:02):
You have a great evening.
Speaker 4 (11:03):
You go well, and Tash Morrow, of course, which it's
we're practice, will.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
Be there momentarily. Don't you worry about that? Okay, brilliant, Yeah, okay,
so really good advice.
Speaker 3 (11:16):
Oh I love that. I actually haven't heard that quote.
Oh no, I mean we have a much more boring
way of talking about it in my field, which is
it's actually one of the main anti avoidance strategies. We
talk about, this idea of avoiding avoiding, and a fantastic
anti avoidance strategy is to do exactly that. To whatever
you've got to tackle that day, do the hardest thing first,
(11:39):
and when you think about it, the reason for that
is because it means actually everything gets easier from then
on out.
Speaker 4 (11:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
Yeah, I'm trying to think why why you put things
off sometimes too, you know, And I think it is
that you get this prevailing sense. For me, at least,
I get a prevailing sense that it's going to take
me longer than I've got time to do, and so
I keep thinking about, oh, well, I'll do it when
i've got time. I'll do it when I've got time,
and actually it's just like, well, maybe you should just
start now.
Speaker 3 (12:07):
Well, one of the problems with a procrastination is that
moment when we decide not to do it, it's incredibly rewarding,
so we actually train ourselves into avoidance if we're not careful.
Each time we go, oh, I don't want to do
that right now, and we get that little jolt of relief.
It's like a little reward. We're rewarding ourselves for doing
exactly the wrong thing in that moment, and over time
we can train ourselves into procrastination and avoid its quite quickly.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
I'm just starting to think about my to do list
for the next week and yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:34):
Hopefully there's not too many frogs on it.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
Not yet, not yet, but it's early yet. Let's see
what happens. Okay, we've got a text here, Kyle, and
I'm instered in your feedback on this one. Yeah, someone
with exactly that. So Texter has texted and and she says,
and I won't read your name out because it's not
sort of important, but she just say, my husband just
moved out and I'm trying to deal with it doing
(12:58):
non contact, but it's all just a bit too hard.
We were together for forty years, but he told me
that he wants to eat at fancy restaurants and travel
and have no responsibility. So in terms of a relationship
breakdown and trying to do the non contact, and by
the sound of it, it sounds like having different ideas
(13:21):
about what life could look like. That's quite a challenge
to overcome.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
Oh, that's huge, that's absolutely huge. Absolutely. I mean, I
know I say this a lot, but and this in
particular especially mean it. In this instance, after forty years,
I really think you need to be talking with somebody,
whether it's a counselor or a therapist. I think you
need that support because I think there's going to be
a lot of feelings to process and it's going to
(13:48):
take a bit of time to work through that grief
and that adjustment and to recognize that actually you're allowed
to have whatever feelings you might have about that, whether
that be sadness or grief or anger, rage, disappointment, betrayal,
or actually just desperately wanting him back. You know, to
be able to, as you say, deal with no contact
(14:09):
feels really kind of harsh.
Speaker 5 (14:12):
To me.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
So I'm really sorry to hear that, and I think
it's really incredibly important that you get some support and
recognize that it's actually okay for this to be a
hard time. That's a really long time and a lot
of grief that you're going to be processing, but that
it's also okay to distract. You know, you don't have
to be in it all of the time. So whether
that's time with friends or trying to do things that
(14:34):
you might you know, have enjoyed once upon time and
don't feel like doing at the moment, do them anyway,
Do the things you don't feel like doing, because they
might just help to.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
It's interesting, you know, just what sounds to me like,
you know, when you've been together forty years. So I'm
going to guess that maybe this might be a little
bit about what retirement looks like too, for anyone who's
in a long term relationship. I got this advice long
time ago, and it's actually constantly have the conversation over
what that looks like.
Speaker 3 (15:06):
I agree and have the conversation, what do the next
five years look like, what are the next ten years
look like? What do you want? What are we going
to do together? What much you want to do separately,
and you know, what are your individual goals because as
you say, Haymish, it's really important to make sure you
stay on the same page.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
Jay, Well, it will change. Yeah, it's the art of
truth kind of should change. Yeah, yeah, I mean, I
mean I've been I've been with you know, my my
now wife, you know, over a decade, and I think
in that time, you know, our goals and aspirations have
definitely changed. I don't think they're any more boring or
less exciting or more exciting than what they were. But
(15:42):
there were things that we thought that we wanted to do,
places we thought we wanted to go, maybe even move.
And now we're kind of like we talk about it
quite regularly, and we'll be like, whoa were thinking, you know,
we sort of you know, are we going to move
to such and such? Oh my goodness, we would have
been bored or sometimes even you know, there's been ideas
that we had and then we sort of see that,
(16:03):
you know, something else has happened and that that idea
would have been a just catastrophically bad and you kind
of go, oh, I'm really glad that we talked about.
So look, you know, all the best to you to
the text and who's going through. But yeah, I think
really good there to understand that forty years is a
long time. Yeah, absolutely, so you probably want to take
it easy on yourself. Okay, let's have a look here.
(16:25):
Lewis textan and says, look, this is easy as said
than done. But for me, don't think just do you
only live once?
Speaker 3 (16:34):
Yeah, I think that's good advice. That's one of those
things that actually sometimes we just need to recognize that
if we're waiting to feel like doing something, we might
be waiting for a long time. I mean, you know,
really small example, sometimes I find it a bit challenging
to get out of bed in the morning on a Monday.
Funnily enough, I do have a little bit of a
sleep in, but I have a routine where I get up,
I go to the gym, start the week with the gym,
(16:55):
and then head off to work. And sometimes I literally
have to say just get out of bed, like, don't
think about the next thing, don't think about breakfast, coffee,
getting out the door, any of that stuff. Just literally
get your body out of bed. And it's kind of
like once you get moving, you can Okay, all right,
off we go. Then, So sometimes it can be useful
(17:16):
literally to just focus on the next thing.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
Yeah, just start, Yeah, one foot in front of the other.
Frank has texted in and he just says, Hi, stop it.
What you're talking about is all to do with attitude.
Nothing is hard. It's positive attitude, and you have to
work on that otherwise negative will rule your life. Cheers Frank, Frank.
(17:41):
Some Frank information from Frank.
Speaker 3 (17:42):
Absolutely I agree up to a point. I mean, I'm
going to quibble, if that's right, quibbling. Some things are hard,
and it's okay that they're hard, and we're allowed to
have the feelings about them, but that doesn't mean not
doing them, because I think sometimes positive attitude only takes
us so far. Sometimes positive attitude can look like actually
(18:05):
giving ourselves a hard time because we might be having
so called negative feelings about something. It's okay to have
those feelings, but we can do it anyway. We can
still do hard things when we're tired or upset or anxious.
It just means sometimes having to kind of give ourselves
a bit of a hug and a kick in the
bum at the same time, if that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
A hug and a kick in the bar at the
same time. Yeah, sounds complicated, but I'm always up for
a challenge.
Speaker 3 (18:30):
A little bit of a contortionist move, but as possible.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
Bill Good even to you.
Speaker 6 (18:35):
Hello good, Ohomish hadn't spoken to the notice line for
a while, but I was interested when the lady rang
up about the frogs earlier. But I'll come back to
that in a second, because i just wanted to say,
for sort of my own self confidence, etc. I've always
(18:56):
I've never looked at people. I hate the word compare,
but I've never looked at people better off than me
or luckier than me. But I think how luckier I
am when I look to people who have sort of
had harder times in life than me, and it sort
(19:17):
of helps me going, not just to help myself, but
to help others as well in this social context. Now,
with the frog that lady mentioned before had to be
one and only Mark Mark Twain when he said do
the big things first and the little ones will come
(19:38):
easier late. It's total in disagreement what teachers said to
us older people sixty years ago, let's say, when we
sat down for through our school certificate examination, when they
would say look, get rid of all the easy stuff first,
(20:01):
you know, the lower mark stuff first, before you get
onto the big one with the harder one with the
most marks, because you might finish that anyway, and you've
left the others, you've run out of time with the others.
But I have found now I sort of agree, you know,
(20:22):
with you know the frog thing too, But sometimes I
think it's easier to get the little ones out of
the way as well. So I'm just sort of sitting
on the bents on that. But I just wanted to
Mark Twain as one of my My life's been full
(20:42):
of reading biographies and and autobiographies, and I always want
to sort of see how famous people got on through
their lives doing things and being successful and things like that,
and Mark Mark Twain I absolutely love. And one of
(21:02):
his quotes that's said most more than anything else, of course,
is the one which I think most listeners will agree with,
is that so there are three types of lies, lies,
damn lies, statistics.
Speaker 5 (21:19):
And when.
Speaker 6 (21:21):
I see the government, you know, figures and others throwing
statistics at each other every week, whether it's to do
with housing or inflation or whatever it is, I think
to myself gosh, you know what lies they all tell,
et cetera, because you know, you can find ways to
twist statistics and figures and you know, all sorts of things.
(21:43):
But just to conclude, I wanted to the other guy
I absolutely love for motivation is is young Well, Oscar Wilde.
Of course his gain comes.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
Up the other side of the pond. But yes, yeah,
I like these literary grapes.
Speaker 6 (21:59):
And Oscar, you know, was full of self, you know, confidence,
et cetera. He had very tough times in the life.
Of course, you know, he went to jail over because
he couldn't pay a fine, or he was fined by
a family for something or the other. When when he
arrived at was it Ellis Island or the customers in
(22:23):
New York, you know, on a speaking tour of America
to raise money, they asked him, and what have you
got to declare? And he said, only my genius. And
because he then in Lady Windermere's Fan, which at one
of his favorite plays, the socialites were talking to each
(22:47):
other and one came in. A third person came into
the party, and he said that there's one thing worse
than being talked about, and that's not being talked about.
And so many people get upset, you know, about being
talked about, et cetera, behind their back. It mates, family,
(23:09):
all sorts of people, et cetera. They forget. Next week
it'll be forgotten and someone else will be getting the
someone else will be talked about instead. Finally, finally, Winston Churchill.
Of course, he's most famous for, you know, the black
Dog arriving depression. When he's depression, and he made his
(23:32):
famous quote was when you're going through hell, don't stop,
just keep going and love it, because you know, everyone
in their life they tell the truth has gone through
hell at some stage. But I don't know whether he
was the one who said also that the road to
(23:55):
hell is full of good intentions.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
Yeah, I've heard that one before. Paved with good intentions
is the other one I've heard. Yes, be careful what you.
Speaker 6 (24:04):
Promise, etc. So the quote, I've got book, so you
know the quote. You know famous people, that Kennedy, you
know all sorts of other you know people, et cetera.
But it's just sort of wonderful having a laugh reading them,
and you get it. I get inspired from them and
(24:24):
I have a good laugh because so many of them
have come true, just like the Lady and the Frog.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
Yeah. Yeah, And I think if you've stumbled on something here, Bill,
which I think is really good for us to know,
is actually being able to have those quotes. You know
we're kind of talking about, you know, Mark Twain, Oscar Wilde,
even JFK. You know that these are people that are
from different eras, some multiple generations ago, but you know,
(24:53):
even Winston Churchill, they went through the same, similar things
in terms of the mental health experience that we've had.
It might be that the language that we used to
talk about mental health might feel new, but actually it's
been around forever and ever, and these were just different
ways of people expressing it. And I think I don't
(25:13):
know about you, Bilbert. I'm going to make an assumption here,
but please correct me if I'm wrong. It feels kind
of comforting to know that people went through the same
sort of thing and are able to we're able to
articulate it back in the day.
Speaker 6 (25:26):
That is right, It is exactly right. It makes you
feel better, but you're not on your own. Others got
through it, persevered somehow, and got out of it great.
Talking to you. Look, I may have talked to Kyle
a few years ago with Mike King or someone else.
But last time I rang, I think I was chatting
(25:49):
to Martin Crowe for about ten or fifteen minutes he
was guest on your show. And also before that, I
think Mike Ken when I told Mike that i'd actually been.
I had worked for the government on the on mental
health questionnaire research I think it was two thousand and
(26:10):
seven or two thousand and six, and which took me
to the Chatham Islands, into jails everywhere, et cetera. And
I didn't know that this was New Zealand. I thought
New Zealand was a different place than what I heard,
and I still find today well, I find today worse
than what it ever has been. And doctor McDonald Fras MacDonald,
(26:36):
who was eminent New Zealand psychologist and head of all
the mental asylums you can think of, said to me
at a meeting in nineteen seventy one that he brought
out this word suburban neurosis and various others, and he
said it it was morally criminal the way that young mothers,
(26:57):
you know, would treat it in New Zealand, you know,
after having babies and so on, you know, being on
their own the mental scenes, and I was reminded of
that and that we'd had I'm fround the country that
first item on the news and so on. But I
watched a program last night on television called malpractice, and
the English came up with some beauty great programs, and
(27:20):
it's on Tomorrow night or Monday night as well. But
that is absolutely brilliant. And if you hadn't seen it,
or on your listeners hadn't seen it, see it because
it is really really good.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
You know, I'll put it on malpractice. Is that what
you said?
Speaker 6 (27:42):
Male practice?
Speaker 5 (27:44):
Yeah?
Speaker 6 (27:44):
There was another one after about murder Murdoch's in a
news of the world called the hack Tony, Toby James
and David Tennant. Well watched this male practice because it
brings to mind everything that I still know and know
about is working for eight years as a researcher for
the Ministry of Health in England.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
Well, thank you, thank you, Bill, And I love I
love those quotes that you've you've given us. But I
think those are, like I said, I think it's quite
comforting to know that it's nothing new, and I.
Speaker 3 (28:18):
Think actually it's interesting what emerges when we throw these
things out into the into the listening world, isn't it,
because so far quotes and I would actually absolutely endorse
reading biographies and autobiographies of the things that people ordinary
and famous have overcome in their lives, because it's actually
kind of what we do on the show too, is helpful.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
Go straight back to the lines, We'll talk to Jay Jay,
good even to.
Speaker 7 (28:43):
You, good evening, pain and all of the zeland. I
try to share a little bit what I've been through
in my life. My dad knows only three years old.
It's a terrible cancer. And my mother remarried. Goth is
a kind of violent alcohol, and they used always put
me down, bust me around and off and give me
(29:05):
a hearty with thanks and okra and wood. So through
my younger days, I've got a real I call it
a fear of man syndrome. It's a syndrome. And I
wouldn't I couldn't trust other males, other men, and even adults.
So through my life I used to go around looking
down all the time, and I didn't want to look
(29:26):
at people when I went down to the hut of
the shops or whatever. And I found amazing that as
I was walking along looking down lots of other people
were also looking down. I wouldn't look at me. But
over the years I've been bold and I've started walking
and looking at people and spying at people, given them
(29:47):
a note just technology, and sometimes I get such a
surprise that they style back. And I even talked to
complete strangers and the Sumac because I've just lante to
overcome a fear of men boy, just being more positive
and spying at people and just being fairmy but a lot,
you know, if other people had to stand, why do
(30:08):
people or rocking down when they're walking along? Many people
walk down and don't seem to want to look at
you or connect. And I've just found that just being
more open and a lot being open a silent people
are acknowledging people has kind of helped me have a
lot more healthier respecting good over's terrible fear of me.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
I don't I like that, Jay, I really like what
you're talking about, because what I'm hearing you say is
actually is being the change that you want to see. Yeah,
you know, and I think that that's really hard because
sometimes you know, you think about You're like, wow, how
come people don't you know, give me a bit of
eye contact on the street or you know, give me,
(30:51):
give me, give me a little smile, and then you think, well, jeez,
what am I doing? And then so the fact that
you're doing it, Jay, you know, you're actually putting it
into action. That's and that someone's got to go first, right,
and you've decided that that's what you're going to do,
and I ammend you well done.
Speaker 7 (31:09):
Yeah. Well, I'm getting better at the seas market too,
even talking where the oldies down. I choose wars and
now I'm getting more bolder just to be friendly and
talk to people, behin me and in front and and
people please when yeah, you talk to them, be friendy
and they really open up and so they please that
someone is talking to them as well. They've got about
three hundred dollars old to pay for their groceries and
(31:31):
I have probably about twenty people are looking forward to
being acknowledged, and I think a smile can go a
long way. That's a bunch of but that's one of
other people. Notice that the people look down when they're
walking around the street, caught off and there's other people
seeing its are just they think for you a love
(31:52):
I lost you guys every Sunday night. And I enjoy
what you're sharing, but your need help to get a
better self esteem and happy a lot.
Speaker 2 (32:01):
Well, no, and I think the things for that, Javid,
and I really like it. And I'm thinking about when
I when I'm walking around, what I see people doing.
I'll tell you what I see a lot of people
doing looking on their phones. Ye see that a lot
worse now.
Speaker 7 (32:16):
They even walk into you sometimes. I think.
Speaker 2 (32:21):
I saw a guy. I saw a guy take himself
out on a lamp wall. He didn't take himself out,
but he did go straight into the lamp post.
Speaker 3 (32:27):
Just this week.
Speaker 7 (32:27):
Actually going to watch some of the older people when
they drive those trolleys at high speed around the supermarkets too.
They can take your shins out.
Speaker 2 (32:38):
A drive by shinning. That's your local Woolworth's. Yeah right, okay, Jay,
thanks thanks for the call. And I think you're really
right and and well done on like I said, being
that change that you want to see.
Speaker 7 (32:50):
Yeah, I have to say so, it won't happen if
I don't initiate. You know, you can keeps looking down,
but we're meant to be looking at right and being
growth for in a fantastic country. And I think you
can all enjoy a bit of warmth.
Speaker 6 (33:05):
And a smile.
Speaker 7 (33:06):
They even smile over the phone people. Now that's no.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
I'd tell you what it's not, because actually, if you do,
people can hear it in the way that you talk
true story.
Speaker 3 (33:17):
They can.
Speaker 2 (33:17):
Yeah, I can tell you right now, Kyle and I
sit here with smiling like idiots as well to just
what you're doing it right now, I know. And that's
the point, is actually just being genuinely genuine and how
you want to communicate with people. Well done, Jay. In
fact that I'm going to take a quote from Jay.
We've had Oscar Wilde and Mark Twain, Winston Churchill quoted tonight,
(33:39):
but the one I like from Jay tonight. It won't
happen unless I initiate it.
Speaker 3 (33:43):
It's perfect. And actually what it also illustrates, and thanks
J for bringing this to our attention, is that one
of the things about doing hard things is sometimes when
we start doing something different, we also feel different and
maybe it doesn't feel as hard as we thought.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
So actually, to change the way that you think and
feel about a situation, you need to actually change your behavior,
even if that's changing in the fact that I'm going
to do it differently. I'm going to try this new thing.
Speaker 3 (34:12):
Changing their behavior changes how we feel.
Speaker 2 (34:16):
There, you go, okay, So now we're starting to really
get into into the nitty gretting on what actually works.
So in terms of behaviors, you know, I think Jay's
example of just sort of feeling like people don't want
to connect with you, well, you know, I'm going to
start trying to connect with them and see where it
takes me. And then he's had he's had a great
response from it. So Edna, good morning to you.
Speaker 5 (34:38):
Oh hi, guys, I've got a couple of things to
tell you overcome and then the said things a bit heavy,
that's right. So you know I've done well to overcome
most of their mentalness and alcohol addiction. You know, I'm
forting there sober, and I work as a registered new
(35:00):
so work in mental health, so I mean there's a
stressful job, but you know I've overcome that. I've had
some really tough news today that my son is twenty
four and his childhood friend who they were so beautiful, Jack,
(35:21):
he completed suicide.
Speaker 2 (35:23):
I'm sorry to hear that.
Speaker 5 (35:24):
Yeah, and it's really rough. You know, I can just
see him in my mind's eye, this beaming twelve year
old boys. They drifted a pat in the last few years,
but they still knew they were in different friend groups.
So my son had been like hanging out with him
a lot. But you know, as a parent of pas,
(35:48):
imagine how the family feel. It's devastating, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
Oh, without a doubt, yep, yep, And and and genuine
genuine sympathy goes out to you know, the family is
as well as all his friends, including your son.
Speaker 5 (36:05):
M It's just a.
Speaker 6 (36:07):
Really hard thing.
Speaker 5 (36:08):
And I mean I just I just struggle to I mean,
I just struggle to process and compreshin you know, it's
pretty very unfortunately, it's all too common.
Speaker 3 (36:26):
How's your son doing with it? Is the Okay, Well, I'm.
Speaker 5 (36:31):
Not going to push him on anything. You know, he's
a bad hangover today and I'm not going to push
him because you know, he'll deal with us in his
own way.
Speaker 3 (36:42):
You know, what does that You trust him?
Speaker 5 (36:48):
I do. He's a good kid, my son, and and
you know he sees a psychologist already for bonuses, but
he has the support. So yeah, I mean, I'm sorry
to bring up a heavy topic.
Speaker 2 (37:02):
No, not at all. That that's what we're here for
in it, and we've never had any any any shine
away from talking about the stuff that it's important. I
think you know. I just wanted to say to you,
I think that you know. The thing is also when
it comes to grief, the most important thing to remember
is just let it operate on its own timetable. It
(37:23):
doesn't need to be rushed. There's no there's no sort
of rule that you know, he needs to be over
it in thirty days or anything like this. It'll most
likely linger in some way or another with him, especially
seeing as from what from what you're telling me, you
know this is a childhood friend.
Speaker 5 (37:40):
Yeah, oh definitely, and that's why it would never be
wrest him. And sometimes it's a delayed response. So I
just want everyone out there to know that if they're
having these thoughts, they they should actually reach out and
speak to someone. It's very important.
Speaker 2 (37:58):
Well, I thank you, Anna, And it's a good point
to make because here's the thing. You know that the
world is a much better place with you in it,
and the absence of you will will hurt so many people,
and ultimately the people who are closest to you, And
there's nothing there's nothing when we're talking about, you know,
(38:19):
overcoming things, right, there really is no problem that can
be overcome. You know that can't be overcome. Sorry, you
know it's it might seem hard, and in a lot
of times it will be, but there is nothing that
is in so insurmountable that we can't find a solution.
Speaker 5 (38:36):
Tregedy of but making that for now a fee of
taking his life when actually if you reach out and
talk about it, you know you don't have to take
that for enough step. I just want people to know.
Speaker 2 (38:52):
That, you know, well, look thank you in it and
look all the best to you and your boy. And
I hope that you know you can you can both
be able to have those honest conversations with each other
or not, you know, just being able to sometimes just
be there and just have somebody keep you company.
Speaker 5 (39:10):
I know, and I can tell he's sensitive, but he's
a high achievement. He'll be I think we'll all be
a river. I mean, honestly, the griefs to that family
that they will last in their whole lifetime.
Speaker 2 (39:23):
So without a doubt, without a doubt.
Speaker 5 (39:27):
Okay, well, thanks for your program, guys. I'm listening, and
I'm very appreciative.
Speaker 2 (39:33):
Oh no, look, thank you, Anna, and all the best
to you and your son. And like I say, just
take it one day at a time, one moment at
a time, and perhaps just from a mum's perspective, you
just give him a little bit of a longer hug tomorrow.
Speaker 5 (39:51):
Yeah, yeah, that's right. Okay, thanks for everything you're doing, guys.
Speaker 2 (39:54):
You go well, Anna cheers, thank you. Yeah, that is hard.
Speaker 3 (40:00):
That is hard. Just for anyone out there listening who
may benefit from this, just know that there are actually
a lot of lost by suicide support groups around the country, sadly,
because there are many people who need that service. The
Mental Health Foundation, if you go on their website or
just search Mental Health Foundation Suicide Loss, they've actually got
(40:21):
a national list of all of the groups around the country,
so you can jump on there and find that. But
also any skilled counselor or therapist can help you with that.
But it is important you get that support, not just
the family, but actually often the people close to the
person in that social circle often need that support also.
Speaker 2 (40:40):
To you may be likely hearing a lot of stuff
flying around in the news media around social services and
especially around mental health being cut or they've lost their
funding or they've reduced their hours. None of it's untrue.
It's one hundred percent true. However, there are lots of
different things happening in all of our communities. And look,
(41:01):
we know about this because we have them on the show,
because they contact us. You've just really got to sometimes
go looking for them. That's probably my only criticism of
mental community mental health services in New Zealand is that
some of them just don't promote themselves particularly well.
Speaker 3 (41:16):
Well, they're too busy helping people.
Speaker 2 (41:18):
That's the point, Kyle. Yes, they're actually busy doing the thing.
But if you have a look, you're going to actually
find you've probably got more support in your community than
you realized. Why because you've got people like Anna who
have had horrendous experiences who you know, they've lost somebody
close to them, and a lot of people make themselves
then available to be able to help others to try
(41:39):
and avoid it repeating itself.
Speaker 3 (41:41):
And you know what, if you're not so comfortable or
you're struggling to find what you might need on the
old Google, which is sort of the first place we
go these days, there's another old fashioned way to do it.
Hamish oh, it's a Citizens Advice Bureau. Not only have
they got great people who know what's in their local community,
but they've also got this old fashioned thing in there.
There's big racks with all sorts of pamphlets on it,
(42:02):
pamphlets and actually often it's a really great place to
pop along if you think you need something but you're
not sure if it exists, pop along to your cab
and they'll probably.
Speaker 2 (42:10):
Know one service too that is still operational twenty four
seven one seven three seven, which is the National Mental
Health Helpline. So it's four numbers. You don't need to
no eight hundred number or anything. You just dial one
seven three seven or text. You can text it a
little bit like us and just text us either or yeah.
Speaker 1 (42:31):
All right.
Speaker 2 (42:33):
Well that's it for this episode of The Nutters Club,
thanks to my co host, psychotherapist Carl McDonald, as well
as all our insightful callers and considered texters. If you
like what you heard and think it might help someone
out there, then please share this episode on your own
channels or with family and friends. And if you ever
want to be part of the show, give us a
(42:54):
call or text when we broadcast live on News Talk
s dB eleven pm Sunday nights, New Zealand Standard time.
Check out Newstalk SEDB, dot CO dot m Z for
local frequencies or a link to the live stream. Big
thanks to New Zealand on Air for their ongoing support
and making the show. Take care and always remember that
(43:14):
the world's a better place with you in it. Life
it isn't easy, it is, however, worth it.
Speaker 1 (43:21):
For more from News Talks at B Listen live on
air or online, and keep our shows with you wherever
you go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio
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