December 13, 2024 • 40 mins
A common thought when it comes to buying an investment property is finding a reasonably priced house in a high demand area.
But could it be more profitable to spend as much as you can on an investment property?
Helen O'Sullivan joins Tim Beveridge with more.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from Youth Talks.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
It'd be jus come out in the First World War,
Bloody rad Barns flying once.
Speaker 3 (00:16):
More, the Ala command to ignore.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
All of his men and calling on Snoopy.
Speaker 4 (00:23):
Do it again?
Speaker 3 (00:25):
Was the night for Christmas. Born in Budo, Snoopy went
up in search of his.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Follow spy red baron susly them bond with ice on
his wings.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
If you was go Restmas, wells Christmas, ask me be
so and welcome back. This is the Weekend Collective. Welcome
(00:59):
to the One Roof radio show. Now we're playing this
song because not because it gets requested quite a bit
when I'm doing talk back, but of course it is.
It was the first song that came out of my
guest's mouth when I asked, what's your favorite Christmas song?
And she said bang Snoopy's Christmas. Well, she didn't say bang,
she just said it promptly, and I was using some
atomatter pa there just to emphasize the speed of her reply.
(01:22):
The other one was the Pogues, so we thought we'd
go with them, and apparently fun fact for you all,
according to my guest, is that this song really only
rates in New Zealand that the rest of the world
doesn't care about it as much as we do. So
we do love Snoopye Christmas and loving Snoopy's Christmas. She
is the CEO of real estate at Velocity Global, and
(01:42):
it's Helena Sullivan. Hello, Helen. How are you?
Speaker 2 (01:45):
God Tim, I am exceptionally well. Thank you? How are you?
Speaker 3 (01:48):
How are you? Is there a reason that you thought
I'm exceptionally well?
Speaker 2 (01:50):
It's sunny, It's a glorious sunny.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
Day, and you're stuck inside chatting to me.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
But I've had a lovely morning and afternoon out in
that beautiful sun.
Speaker 3 (01:59):
Johne lovely prop a summer.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
The Bodic blooming.
Speaker 3 (02:02):
Actually the boodcor I sort of tie. I mean, I
think been a couple of seasons when they came up
quite early. But they are looking pretty good.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Okay, I look gorgeous and I do love them.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
Hey. What our first question, that the one that I
teased at the start of the show, was the question
around whether you are better? And I'm going to tie
it into something we shared when you shared with me
before we came on air about how much some people
are spending on property. But just the question when it
comes to investing, are you better to spend as much
(02:33):
as possible on investing or on a particular property. And
the thought has crudely put that if you were to
make it ten percent or twenty percent profit eventually on
a two million dollar property, property, property, that's like anyway, no.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
One determined twenty.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
Twenty on a two million dollar property is four hundred
thousand dollars. Whereas if you've sort of just been conservative
with your investment, you've escaped. So you got a five
hundred thousand dollar property, then you've made one hundred thousand.
So are you best to spend as much as you
can on investment property? And it's a crudely put question,
but there is something about being a bit more bold,
(03:13):
isn't there? And sometimes those luxury properties, when they really
do go up, mind you, two million dollars in Auckland,
it's just about the average house price.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
Yeah, it's funny. Once upon a time, you know, when
I'm a millionaire, I'll be able to afford a house
in Auckland. It's not quite what we dreamed of when
we were small kids, was it?
Speaker 3 (03:30):
Who would have thought? Yeah, when we were growing up,
that average house price in Auckland would be I'm.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
A millionaire, I'll be the median house price in Auckland.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
What do you think about that, that idea that it's
better and maybe the mess Maybe the question is really
about being bolder than you're prepared to be. But of
course property markets don't always go up.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
No they don't. And the thing too, is that the properties.
You know, first you've got to fund that two million
dollar property, and so you are taking a much bigger
risk on our single property keeping that rented your market
for you know, if you're looking for you know, two
thousand dollars a week is an enormous rent, which is
(04:09):
you know, to get sort of around about a five
percent gross return on that too million dollar property, not
you know, you're gonna have a lot of vacancy in
that so you're at risk of a very small segment
to the market. You're going to afford to spend two
thousand dollars a week on property, There's not that many
people who are going to be using that money to rent,
so you know, you may find yourself with a very
(04:29):
expensive mortgage and no income.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
It's possibly a question more about what people's appetite for riskers, really,
isn't it, Because if you're going to go really big
time and extend yourself as far as possible, it's a
much risky game and you have to be aware of
that absolutely.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
And the thing is, if you're going to extend yourself
that much to provide for an investment, you see that
much on residential housing, you probably want to live in
it yourself.
Speaker 3 (04:56):
Because one of the other things I hadn't thought of this,
but you mentioned to me before we were before we
came on air, was maybe the question is whether you
instead of buying one be property at two million dollars,
you might buy three at six hundred thousand or four.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
I think that would be sort of maybe seven or eight.
I think, you know, if you were going to put
that much into the residential property market, I would absolutely
be doing it in lumps of three. You're spreading your
risk in terms of the locations that you might choose.
And the thing is, it's also worth remembering it's those
mid range properties where you're going to probably see the
(05:31):
greater amount of growth. That luxury end of the market
has times when it does not go up, and it
doesn't always go up in the same proportions as things,
you know, which are more in the which are more affordable,
more available to a greater part of the market.
Speaker 3 (05:50):
Intuitively, it does sound it sounds more bearable for some reason,
even if you say I've got a look, I know, look,
I appreciate anyone who's listening. Not everyone is in the
position to be buying investment property, and some people just
want to buy their first time et cetera. But nevertheless,
you know, the question around having two properties worth seven
hundred and fifty thousand, if you're in that that lucky
(06:11):
position to do that, it does feel intuitibly a lot
safer than just one big one where it's like all
or nothing, tenants are out, that's it, that's right.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
Your incomes dream is as seriously catailed, and you've got
a big, hefty mortgage coming out on a monthly basis.
So from a spreading it spreads your risk, and also
it is you know when you're trying to get out
of that, it's going to have a greater level of liquidity.
When you're trying to get out of that two million
(06:42):
dollar property, you know you're not always going to find
the right buyer at the right time. Whereas if you've
got something that's got mass market appeal. When you need
or want to turn that into cash, you're going to
generally find that a lot easier to do than something
that is in the more rarefied here, well what used
to be rarefied here once upon a time.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
If you are a property investor, you think of doing it, Actually,
we'd love to hear from you about your approach to risk.
Actually do you do you spend as much money as
you possibly can, because I have known I know some
people who have by virtue of good timing and you
know what they well probably researched people, I think, but
they put everything, everything into property as much as they could,
(07:24):
and they happened to be fortunate that they were investing
in property at a time when it was just going
gangbusters and leverage was king, and they've set themselves up
for life and beyond. But yeah, it's not always that straightforward,
I guess, because if you'd done that in twenty twenty.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
One, as interest rates and when interest.
Speaker 3 (07:46):
Rates were cheap and leverage was so tempting, then unless
you got out straight away.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
Yeah, yeah, it's one of the reasons why the Reserve
Bank introduced the debt to income ratio constraints, because the
idea is that you stop people from loading up on
vast amounts of debt in the times when it's you know,
you can get it at four four and a half percent,
so that when it gets to seven and eight percent,
as it's been for a lot of this year, you
(08:12):
are not going through a hole on the floor.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
What are the debt to income restrictions at the moment?
Are they too restrictive? Do you think there is a
bit of criticism of the I can't speak criticism of
the Reserve Bank that it is too restrictive and they
need to No.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
I think the timing of the introduction of the DTIs
was actually quite well done in terms of may well
have been just fortuitous. But at the moment, the debt
to income ratios won't stop anybody who's already being stopped
by that the bank's test rates, essentially because interest rates
are so much higher than they have been.
Speaker 3 (08:50):
Because there are exceptions to the debt to restrictions. If
you happen to be an orthopedic surgeon or something, I
imagine you can probably buy a little bit higher percentage.
I guess thinking of someone who's earning a lot of money.
There are exceptions to it out there on a debt
to income, I'm thinking, sorry, I'm thinking deposits. Plebely got
confused there. Sorry.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
That also the thing is because we've got the loan
to value restrictions and the and the gtiyes that that
the lvrs are sort of constraining anybody because of the
size of because of the rate, because of the level
of interest rates. Right, the DTIs are basically not really
(09:29):
is not knocked out by the lvrs.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
And I completely a mixed one with the other for
a second there, and I was thinking, what am I
talking about? Thank them as you correct me.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
It is nearly Christmas.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
It is. It is nearly Christmas. But we'd like to
tay from you on your attitude towards it. Look, the
broader question is I put it in a way, it's like,
as it always better just to spend as much as
you can, because ten percent of two million is all
of a lot more than ten percent of the lesser amount.
But I guess the question is what is your attitude
to risk? Because maybe your attitude to risk is actually
changing a little bit now because it doesn't feel as terrifying.
(10:00):
Possibly now as it might have when interest rates were
very little and probably went through the roof and all
of a sudden, no, no interest rates are on their
way up eight hundred and eighty ten eighty. We've also
got a philosophical question. We're going to ask you about
something to do with how much money speed people are
spending at the top end of the market, which I'll
get on too in a moment, but we're going to
take some calls first. And Paul, good afternoon.
Speaker 4 (10:23):
Yeah, you, Bobby, I don't like me because I've always
mentioned my properties. I bought my property about twenty five
thirty years ago the best ones to buy a block
of flats because it looked like I've told you, my
flat has got five four flats in the one house.
I think you might have had two ones where you
make all the money, or.
Speaker 3 (10:44):
I think you might have called it We've chatted about
with you and Nicole Lewis, I think, because I think
that's something she's been She's been quite keen on as
having multiple sources of income from your investment. Yeah, carry on, yeah.
Speaker 4 (10:57):
Yeah, And like I said, I paid four hundred and
sixty thousand for it and it's worth over two million
dollars two million dollars, two million dollars.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
Now, I think bravo, who you just ring up to bloat?
Speaker 4 (11:11):
You did that last time. You did that last.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
Well you called back to say the same thing.
Speaker 4 (11:16):
I'm just meeting. I'm just making it est to buy
one's block block of fact if you can can get them,
because you make them more money on then individual separate one. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
Look, I agree with that, and you've got a quite
a diversification of your income. You've got four different You've
got four occupants then, and you know four unlikely unless
other than in COVID lockdowns, that all four of them
all loose the jobs at the same time. So it
does give you that certainty of income flow.
Speaker 3 (11:46):
Has that been your own investment, Paul? Have you got
other sort of property investments you could share with us
in that respect?
Speaker 4 (11:52):
The only one I've got is in the tower po No,
But like I have mentioned to you, take it does
taken about ten thousand dollars every five weeks and profit.
Speaker 3 (12:02):
Well well done you. We are going to take a
couple of going to lie down and we'll be back
in just a moment. It's twenty past four news talks.
He'd be shame.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
Let's so.
Speaker 4 (12:13):
I've kind of the sears.
Speaker 5 (12:22):
So big.
Speaker 3 (12:27):
I love you baby. I can see when I tunes contry. Unfortunately,
we have to eat into it there on the pogues
before it actually gets to the rhythmic. But but we
might actually, oh, there it is. There's a little bit
(12:48):
of it. There we go. Gosh, that is a rollicking
old song. Is that Christmas? Even though it's got some
questionable lyrics that they have to alter for the g
rted ones for radio. Then anyway, welcome back to the
One With Radio show. I'm Tim Beverage. My guest is
Helen O. Sullivan. She is the CEO of real estate
the Velocity Global. That's the A L O I sorry
(13:10):
V A l O C I T y goodness man,
well over the place, Helen. Actually there was some sorry,
we'll put your microphone on there, thank you.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
You obviously need some Christmas some Christmas ignog to get
you back in the floor.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
Then that does feel very sort of Christmas e ignog, and.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
Daytime drinking definitely feels like Christmas.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
It does either other that or is the time for
someone to intervene anyway, Now, now we're talking about how
much people should invest when it comes to their appetite
for risk. I guess I've amended that question as we've
gone on with a more sensible angle as opposed to
should you spend as much as possible in one property
and you're better to spread that risk. I do have
one question before we get onto that interesting other one
(13:54):
I've got up my sleeve. But um, you know properties
that are multiple properties like that are specifically built as
rentals these days. Actually, yeah, they're multi key. You know
the use you know, I mean we lived in one
that's been all freeholder but would have been originally set
up as four rentals, and you know, you see them
(14:17):
smatter it all over the place. There's four or five
they strung along in a row. You've got a common
two or three washing lines and things like that. These days,
of course, the multiple sort of type of situational b
apartments which become the sexy sort of thing as you
will attest to. But do those sort of multi unit rentals,
how do they behave in terms of the rest of
(14:39):
the market on capital growth?
Speaker 2 (14:45):
They tend they do, they hate They show capital growth
along with the rest of the market, possibly not as
much as those with large land parcels underneath them, because
you don't necessarily have an ongoing development potential in a
property like that. But they are solid earners in terms
of being easy to rent, and you know they are.
(15:09):
They tend to be low they're low touch.
Speaker 3 (15:12):
And actually, I guess that, sorry to interrupt, I'm guessing
I've almost about to answer my own question that if
they are easy to rent and there's always high demand,
then they are an attractive property for investors. So that
in its own way has any certain impetus on the
capital value, doesn't it.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
Yeah, that's right, because you know, it depends on whether
you are looking at a property purely for capital gain
or as a balance of a genuine income though coupled
with some capital gain. And they are, you know, particularly
modern ones. They're well built, they're warm, they're dry, their comfy,
(15:48):
they rent well, they're not hard to maintain. You have,
you know, you have the collective mechanism of a body
corporate to run a lot of the management of it.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
Sometimes sometimes Oh no, I'm just in the modern one.
I'm thinking old school, old school.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
Ones where you have cross leases. You've got to be
a little bit more careful, particularly if there are multiple
owners in the block, because there's often the cross laced
document is buried in the lease somewhere, and you've got
to use the courts to enforce those and it can
get really awkward. Collectively.
Speaker 3 (16:28):
Make sure you get on with your neighbors.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
Yeah, make sure you get on with your neighbors. Make
sure you've got sensible neighbors. That's not always. You don't
always get to pick your neighbors. It's the challenge.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
Was that that transfers into the whole quick. Well, I imagine, sorry,
when we're talking about those units that are all over
and using on three flats, I would imagine that that
they are well and I would imagine that people invest
in them. You own, that would be one owner who
would own all of them. I invest in that sort
(17:02):
of problem.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
Don't necessarily, I don't remember, aren't My great aunt lived
in a block like that, And you know, brick solid
as rock, been there for seventy odd years, been there
for another seventy years. And you know, cross leaves used
to be how we did stuff before we invented unit
titles in nineteen seventy two so that you can actually.
Speaker 3 (17:24):
Get your cross leaves converted. But I think that's probably one.
If it's more hassle than it's worth.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
Well, it's just that there's a lot of work involved
in a lot of surveys fees and a lot of
lawyers fees. And I've I looked into it once in
a cross lease that I owned and just decided it
was all just way too hard.
Speaker 3 (17:42):
We should we I've just told my progesser to make
a note for that, because we should actually have a
chat about cross leases, but there wasn't. So when it
comes to modern apartments as investments though, and I know
we've touched on this before, but as we're talking about
how much to invest in, you know, should you be
looking at buying a smaller a number of properties that
are cheaper perhaps, although some apartment apartment developments can be
(18:07):
pretty flash, yeah, just buying one can be quite a reach.
Where are we at with the quality with apartments as
an investment? Because the reason I've always been, well, I'm
not an investor anyone a chicken. But the reason I
would have traditionally been cautious about it is that the
(18:28):
latest apartment that looks awesome is great until it's not
the latest apartment, And all of a sudden there's another
star in town. The next block of apartments has gone
up by a fantastic architect, and everyone moves on to that.
So what does it mean for the investment you've bought?
So how would you what would your comments be on
investing in apartments as a form of investment in real estate?
Speaker 2 (18:49):
So my comment would be number one, pick you're developer,
so you know, research the developer and make sure that
you know, have a look at their other product. Basically,
what else have they built? How old is it and
does it still look nice ten, fifteen, twenty years after
the first ones went up? But you know, I think
(19:10):
for an investment, you're probably not looking at the flashiest, newest,
hottest apartment building in town so much as you're looking
for good, solid quality that will continue. You know there's
built in a good location, because I mean, the good thing,
the great thing about apartments is that you're not building
apartments out the back of beyond. You're building them in
(19:31):
places where there's high amenity and high demand, where people
want to live, that are close to transport and shopping
and stuff like that.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
Is there a way because a lot of the time
people have Obviously every developer wants you to buy off
the plans.
Speaker 5 (19:46):
Yea.
Speaker 3 (19:46):
Ideally that's the developer's goal is they've all been sold
before we even well.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
It's generally the only way they actually get the development started.
A certain amount of presales sufficient. Generally, the rule of
thumb is that the developer needs to pre sell enough
apartments to cover the debt that they're going to need
to raise to to complete the development.
Speaker 3 (20:07):
So how how can prospective buyers actually, let's face it,
whether you've be an investor, investor or you want to
live in it, what's the best you've given us?
Speaker 5 (20:17):
One?
Speaker 3 (20:18):
One answer is that go with a tried and true
developer with a good reputation. But there also is are
there other ways of ascertaining what a good what a
good design and construction looks like. Off the plans.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
Look at lots and lots and lots of them. Go
to the open homes, look at the look at the designs,
look at the look at the you know the generally
a lot of these, a lot of the developers will
also have a model made of the buildings so you
can see what it looks like in three D. The
more you look at them, the more you start to
(20:52):
understand what a good floor plan looks like. Go and
look at other buildings that are completed and then look
at the plans and get you you know, get your perspective,
get a sense perspective of what sixty square meters looks like,
for example, and you know where you want the space
to be in that sixty square meters. So you can
(21:14):
actually appreciate what good design, because good and bad design is.
You know, apartments are all about good and bad design.
You can build something that is sixty five square meters
and it can look smaller than something that has been
well designed and it's fifty square meters.
Speaker 3 (21:28):
Actually, that's amazing how sixty square meters or whatever it is.
I look at our apartment that we've got, which is
up about one hundred or ninety or something, but I
was thinking if it was we're sort of stuck with
the walls that were building and the way it's sort
of put together. In fact, renovating, we just took out
some walls. But it is amazing when you go into
(21:50):
a smaller space, if it's been well designed, how it
can feel. Yeah, it's the sort of magic of design,
I guess, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
It's just you know, architects can be very very clever. Yeah,
and particularly with small you know, I'm a big fan
of boats, and you can see in a really great
apartment design uses a lot of the techniques that boat
builders use in terms of maximizing the use of space.
It draws underneath stairs and things like that.
Speaker 3 (22:16):
It's like the tiny home movement, which is different again,
but I mean you can see some tiny homes where
it looks quite big. Mind your wide angle lens usually
on Instagram, does to that. What about things like if
you're living in an apartment. One of the biggest things
I would think is a sense that you when you're
in your apartment, you're not going to hear your neighbors
(22:36):
all the time. How can you How would you ascertain
whether the sound put the sound.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
Acoustics acoustics, how good the acoustic.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
And the baffling and all that sort of thing.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
Well, there are minimum standards in the building code for
acoustic transmission between apartments, but it is a really good
question to ask the developer about, you know, whether or
not they're doing above code in any of their acoustic management,
because you're right, that makes a big difference, and good
(23:08):
quality apartments you don't. You don't have to listen to
your neighbors having an argument or or you know, cooking dinner.
You you just you shut, you shut the door, and
you're in your space.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
So what did you mean? You're an apartment dweller. I am,
and you, in fact, you.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
Are an apartment of fionado.
Speaker 3 (23:25):
Ficionado. You're in avowed apartment dweller. You're the cheerleader.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
Ever going back to standalone home living.
Speaker 3 (23:32):
You miss moaning the lawns, well earth? What I miss
moving lawns an intrinsic satisfaction well cut grass?
Speaker 2 (23:40):
Yeah, no, I do not miss mowing lawns.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
What research did you do for your unspecified development?
Speaker 2 (23:48):
My unspecified development? I spend a lot of time understanding
the development company, in the development market and studying an
enormous amount of floor plans. So I looked at the
you know, I've researched a lot of apartments. I've seen
a lot of them. I've seen good ones and I've
seen not so good ones.
Speaker 3 (24:09):
And what was it that got you over the line
for you making the decision about this one?
Speaker 2 (24:14):
Then the developer's reputation, the location and the quality of
the building fit out excellent.
Speaker 3 (24:25):
We would love to take your calls about this as well,
about your attitude to apartments as an investment. If you
were going to buy an investment apartment, what would your
approach be, because obviously it's completely different. You're buying something
for a lifestyle where you just love where you live,
and you do ten out of ten by the sound
of it from what you've described to me. But how
would you approach Would it be difficult for you to
(24:46):
buy an investment apartment because no, I.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
Do have an investment you have the I do and
similar sort of approach. Again, then the financial analysis of
it becomes really important. What am I going to be
able to get from you? What are the rents likely
to be from this? But then fundamentally it's going to
rent for this much money, Am I going to always
be able to keep it full? And that comes down
(25:10):
to where is the building? Is it appealing? Is it attractive?
Does it have features that are attractive to you? Know?
The building I have bought in has great amenity for
a resident. It's got a residence lounge, it's got a
work from home space as part of the residence lounge.
It's got a spare room that people can book and
(25:31):
it is, you know, in a.
Speaker 3 (25:32):
Great department, a work from home space, work from home space,
but not in the apartment.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
Not in the apartment. There's a lounge on the top floor, wow,
which is available to all the residents in the building.
It's got magnificent views over the city. It's got a
room that you can book. So when you're your auntie
is coming down from coming down to stay with you,
you don't have to put her in your bed and
sleep on the couch. You can book the room and
(26:02):
the clean Yep, there's a work from home space. So
you've got community in your building. So you might have
a smaller home that you live in, but you've got
you know you can.
Speaker 3 (26:11):
And this is your investment property. Yeah, wow, one you'd
live in yourself as well.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
That's sort of my rule of thumb. If I would
live in it myself, if I would have lived in
it myself as younger me, then it's obviously you know,
it's going to appeal to a market.
Speaker 3 (26:27):
Which student Helen has stayed here.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
Student of Helen would have thought she was absolutely Quinson
if she'd been able to find something like that to
live in. She was a student.
Speaker 3 (26:36):
Obviously shows out the lack of the lack of insight
or research I've done into apartments because all those things
I'm going.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
Really, your face is a picture.
Speaker 3 (26:47):
We'll be back to sack some calls in just a moment,
and we do have another question we might try and
touch on before we wrap it up, and it's based
on the amount of money that has been spent at
the top top end of the market, which is a
lot clue and if you and the question for you
being if you suddenly found yourself in the money like
a lotto when it's twenty three million the weekend, how
much would you feel comfortable spending when it comes to
(27:09):
pushing the boat out on a property. We might just
tie that in for a bit of fun, because you know,
we've gotta have a little bit of fun on the show.
It's twenty three minutes to five news talks. He'd be.
Speaker 6 (27:20):
Wh ah, okay, there's always got to be a stinker,
doesn't it?
Speaker 3 (27:30):
A bit of Cliff Richard Christmas. I'm assuming we're playing
this because my my producer and her youthful naivety loves it.
Cliff Richard. Anyway, if you like this, then all power
to you. I'm Tim Beverages the Week in Collective wonderof
Radio show. My producer tire Is give me a bit
of a dirty look there for bagging her Christmas song,
(27:50):
but we'll get over it anyway. Helena Sullivan. Yeah, Cliff Richard,
he's coming over. You're not going to go and see
him and concert? An't you?
Speaker 2 (27:58):
Well? Not? No, I will not be, probably will not be.
Speaker 3 (28:01):
You can't make all the concerts, can you. Anyway? Let's
go to some calls whalking about apartment investments, and you
know what makes an attractive investment for you as an investor?
Is it something you would imagine you'd love living in
yourself or a younger version of you? And Ray?
Speaker 5 (28:17):
Hello, Hi, I wouldn't touch an apartment with a barge pole.
Speaker 3 (28:22):
Why not?
Speaker 5 (28:24):
There's too many of them that leak. There's too many
of them that the soundproofing doesn't work, the fireproofing is
not not good enough. It's a night near waiting to happen.
Have you had mounted and road and then a building's
not built long ago. One year later they've got scaffolding
around it and they're doing major works. And that's a
(28:47):
big reputable person. They did the same out. It's called
stone Fields. I wouldn't touch them. You had, I think
we now had a build apartments.
Speaker 3 (28:58):
Have you had some bad experiences personally? I've just you've
seen some of you think.
Speaker 5 (29:02):
That doesn't I a friend have an absolute numerous foands
actually have absolute nightmares with them.
Speaker 3 (29:09):
Okay, Helen, do you want to check to them.
Speaker 2 (29:13):
Helen, look a lot of the building A lot. I
think this is one of the issues with apartment dwelling
is that there is still a stigma attached to them,
resulting from some of the really horrific things we put
up in the eighties.
Speaker 5 (29:29):
I'm talking about, Helen, in the last three years.
Speaker 2 (29:33):
Look, I've not actually personally seen any of the modern
ones by current developers that were around.
Speaker 5 (29:44):
You go down Mount Eden Road near Quarry less than
one year after they were built, full scaffolding around them.
Something had gone drastically wrong, though attempted, and they're at
it again. Look at Stonefields, look at the documentary on it,
and they are not old buildings.
Speaker 3 (30:02):
I'll I'll have a bit of a read up about that.
But yes, thanks, Ray, I don't know that Stonefield's had
anything particularly controversial going around them. I do. I have
seen one. I do remember there was one. It might
have been in just a house that had been built,
and I remember a couple of years later seeing that
it had the cling wrap around it us thinking, oh,
I wonder what's gone on there. But it's difficult without
(30:23):
commenting on a particular development, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
Yeah, Look, I have to actually know which development we're
talking about. There are Look, there's no question that can
be higher risk space. But again, this is why I
counsel that you look at the developer very carefully and
make sure that you're working with somebody who's extremely reputable,
because things might go wrong. I think as if you're
with somebody who's got a sufficient balance sheet to fix it,
(30:48):
then that's you know, it's inconvenient, but it's not financially ruinous.
Speaker 3 (30:53):
Hey, now there was something I've been threatening to talk
about for a while, and I need to get onto
it before the shows, before the hour's over. But we're
talking about some of the data that's come out about
the money that's been spent at the top end of ten.
What's that?
Speaker 2 (31:06):
Yeah, I think there are a couple of properties this
year that seld in the twenty million dollar range, which
is which is a fairly large part of spandulis to
put in one place.
Speaker 3 (31:16):
It is a hell of a lot of money to
spend on it.
Speaker 2 (31:19):
Yeah, we were speculating, and well, what does a house
you have to have to make, you know, to spend
twenty million? I don't know if you've ever seen it.
There's a magnificent x account x slash Twitter called Zillo
Gone Wild and they it's great, it's properly porn. It's fantastic,
and they run away amazing houses, interesting houses, freaky houses,
(31:43):
crazy houses, houses with dungeons in the basement, houses with
all sorts of crackcry stuff. It's fantastic. Well, you can
go right down it's a magnificent rabbit hole. You can
go right down that one.
Speaker 3 (31:55):
Do we know much about that? Who bought? Who's spinning
twenty million bucks on a house?
Speaker 2 (32:01):
I didn't have that detail to hear.
Speaker 3 (32:03):
Oh, I know, it's I mean, how much money would
you have to have for a twenty million dollar spend
on a property to be something that you could consider? So,
for instance, if you won Powerball and Powerball this weekends
twenty three million dollars, which I call that a truckload
of money.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
A considerable amount of spend is years.
Speaker 3 (32:25):
But it's funny. I was trying to think, how much
would I feel comfortable spending on a house out of
twenty three million.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
Yeah, that certainly wouldn't be twenty of it.
Speaker 3 (32:34):
But have you ever considered how much you would spend
on a house versus how much money you would have?
Not in your own life, but if you came into
a summer money that was outlandish.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
How much of a moable amount of cash.
Speaker 3 (32:49):
How much percent how much as a percentage of that
sort of wealth you'd spend on a house? And I
don't think I could spend more than I mean this
is I mean, this is here. I am the Toko
coast on overnight, so here we are. We fantasizing here.
But I did buy a ticket. I won twenty three mil.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
That's what there selling, the selling.
Speaker 3 (33:06):
The dream, Well they are. But if I won twenty
three million, I don't think I'd be happy spending more
than a quarter of it. And even then I would
probably feel a sense of tightness.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
I would still Yeah, it would be a bit of
a kleen chet decision. Well, yeah, I was sort of thinking,
I know it's wild speculation, but anything more than for
more or five million. I think i'd sort of struggle
with Yeah.
Speaker 3 (33:31):
I think there was a property that Grant Dalton had
sold in Victoria, av which was in fact sold for
a lot less. He sold it quite for quite a
good profit, but it was such a gorgeous house. I
remember thinking, Oh, maybe if you had the money, you'd
I guess if it was a really amazing property that
inspired you as to what you could do with it
(33:51):
and your how you could have, the hosting you could
do and all that sort of thing, then maybe you would.
It would squeeze extra million or two. It's a fun
topic to think that.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
That's why, great topic to think about.
Speaker 3 (34:03):
That's why I love our one roof property of the
week or something.
Speaker 2 (34:05):
Yes, the one roof property is.
Speaker 3 (34:09):
Yeah, anyway, if you we might have time to Oh,
by the way, the buyer is a private But the
top two most expensive sales this year where John Keyes
previous home and Grant Dalton's old home.
Speaker 2 (34:21):
There you go, wow, but not actually being sold by
either of those two individuals because now not the current
vendel correct.
Speaker 3 (34:28):
The twenty minute this is my producer provided to me
this information. The twenty million dollar your property you're talking
about was originally owned by Grant Dalton.
Speaker 5 (34:35):
Right.
Speaker 3 (34:36):
It's funny. When I was going for a walk today,
speaking of gorgeous properties, there is one. I have no
idea who owns it, and I'm not going to speculate
and draw too much attention to it. But it's on
a walk I do up around the cliffs and Saint Helias,
and as I was walking past, I have never seen
a human being in it. And it is one of
those properties that goes from it goes from one road
through to the other. And I was thinking, if I
(34:56):
was a really cheeky person, I'd drop a note in
the letterbox saying, listen, if you want someone to look
like this property has lived and I'm happy to house
set it for free. I've got a couple of kids, hosts,
some people will make the house look lived in. Just
let us know. We'll do it for nothing.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (35:10):
I used to live in Herne Bay and the Sultan
la Brune's place, which they have now sold. But that,
similarly for color, is a whole two blocks and literally
never saw a human being going in or out of it.
Speaker 3 (35:26):
It seems a travesty.
Speaker 2 (35:27):
It does seem quite sad. There's whole streets in London
where similarly you know Knights bridget there where it's own,
they're all owned by by non doms who don't don't
don't like it hollows out communities and I think that's
actually that.
Speaker 3 (35:43):
I think it is a shame that if you're these
that you just don't see these places being lived in. Anyway, look,
we're going to come back, and I've got my hopes
up for the one with properly of the Week, which
I haven't previewed yet actually because I like to do
it as a nice surprise for myself. So I'm hoping
that Tyra isn't going to disappoint me by having it
being a multi unit block of flats and she's looking
(36:05):
at me. Anyway, back in the moment Newstalk s there'd
be eleven minutes to five.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
The one roof Property of the Week on the Weekend Collective.
Speaker 3 (36:15):
Yes, welcome back. My guest is Helen O'Sullivan. But as
the sting says, it's the one with Property of the
week and it is a gorgeous property. Again. It graces
a seven hundred and eighty nine square meter site which
stretches from the road to the water. It's interesting that
the photo of the front photo of it makes it
look kind of old school, haunted housey sort of thing,
(36:36):
except it happens to be on the coast and sunshine
and near Devonport. In Devonport, should I say, And it's
got an adjoining three bedroom apartment which has currently rented
it just under one thousand dollars a week, which not
a bad little prospect, is it. It's got a lovely garden,
big lawns, and the price is affordable. If I win
(36:57):
the lotto, Helen, if I win twenty three million, I
could possibly stretch to the estimated four point twenty five million.
Well I could stretch to actually, And it's got a
four bathrooms, seven bedrooms, two car garage and I'm not
sure if the seven bedrooms include the extra income. But
it's five Stanley Point Road in Stanley Point, Devenport, north
(37:22):
Shore City, right on the water. By the look of it, gorgeous.
What do you reckon, Helen, It's just cracking.
Speaker 2 (37:26):
You'd lie in bed and feel like you're actually out
on the water.
Speaker 3 (37:30):
It's interesting because the house is done stuff from the
external aspect of the house looks well, looks very difport.
Speaker 2 (37:38):
Yeah, it'll bit and sort of looks very circuit eighteen nineties,
you know, traditional colonial architecture. It's been beautifully real fully refurbished.
Speaker 3 (37:49):
Inside, yes, and inside it is quite it's quite modern,
isn't it very much? And the views, I mean, goodness,
me so views to live for built in the nineteen twenties,
I'm told you go so and it looks like it's
built in nineteen twenties. But the interior look most of Devonport,
apart from the leather sofa which looks decidedly nineteen eighty one.
Speaker 2 (38:10):
We're not buying the furniture.
Speaker 3 (38:13):
Anyway. Helen, thanks so much for coming on the show
this year.
Speaker 2 (38:17):
It's been such a pleasure. Thank you for having me.
Speaker 3 (38:19):
Tim And if people want to check out your company's work, Velocity.
Speaker 2 (38:24):
We are one roof data partners, so it's been spend
more time on one roof dot cod or ensured and
you'll be filling your boots with velocities, jolly.
Speaker 3 (38:34):
Data and information. That's right, are you heading away for
a bit of a break.
Speaker 2 (38:40):
Or god spending a bit of time at a friends
holiday home in the unfashionable point Whels which is the
unfashionable part of Omaha.
Speaker 3 (38:50):
The unfashionable, the old school.
Speaker 2 (38:53):
It's like, you know, the bit around the corner from
the from the flashed people.
Speaker 3 (38:56):
Hang on, I hang on, hang on, how on? So
that's other people would say that is a foundation.
Speaker 2 (39:01):
Omaha ah, I think older mahat.
Speaker 3 (39:05):
Because I mentioned that.
Speaker 2 (39:08):
Omaha.
Speaker 3 (39:09):
No, because one day, you know, because I heard it
in cash and when I was I was doing a
concert down there, went around for a function somewhere. I
was chatting with someone of because christ Chich has its
own sort of class system. There's you know, whether you're
from the first four ships, et cetera. But I said
are you are you have you just moved into Kashmir
And she said no, we're Foundation Kashmir. And I thought
(39:31):
foundation cash and I thought, that's that's the expression. It's like,
there'll be foundation, there'll be foundation everywhere. Foundation Cashmere does
sound kind of kind of flash.
Speaker 2 (39:41):
It does sound well, even better, it sounds like it
sounds like or a highly distracted wooly garmant that's going
to scratch you exactly.
Speaker 3 (39:51):
Hey, thanks so much, Helen. We will be back shortly
with the parents squad. Google Sullivan, Sorry, Google Sutherland. There
we go. Not o Sullivan. We're saying goodbye to way
Sullivan and saying hello to Sutherland Dog. Sutherland joins us,
talking about perfectionist kids and prize givings. News talksi B
It's just gone four minutes to five on News TALKSIB.
Speaker 1 (40:32):
For more from the weekend collective, listen live to news
Talks it B weekends from three pm, or follow the
podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from Youth Talks.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
It'd be jus come out in the First World War,
Bloody rad Barns flying once.
Speaker 3 (00:16):
More, the Ala command to ignore.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
All of his men and calling on Snoopy.
Speaker 4 (00:23):
Do it again?
Speaker 3 (00:25):
Was the night for Christmas. Born in Budo, Snoopy went
up in search of his.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Follow spy red baron susly them bond with ice on
his wings.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
If you was go Restmas, wells Christmas, ask me be
so and welcome back. This is the Weekend Collective. Welcome
(00:59):
to the One Roof radio show. Now we're playing this
song because not because it gets requested quite a bit
when I'm doing talk back, but of course it is.
It was the first song that came out of my
guest's mouth when I asked, what's your favorite Christmas song?
And she said bang Snoopy's Christmas. Well, she didn't say bang,
she just said it promptly, and I was using some
atomatter pa there just to emphasize the speed of her reply.
(01:22):
The other one was the Pogues, so we thought we'd
go with them, and apparently fun fact for you all,
according to my guest, is that this song really only
rates in New Zealand that the rest of the world
doesn't care about it as much as we do. So
we do love Snoopye Christmas and loving Snoopy's Christmas. She
is the CEO of real estate at Velocity Global, and
(01:42):
it's Helena Sullivan. Hello, Helen. How are you?
Speaker 2 (01:45):
God Tim, I am exceptionally well. Thank you? How are you?
Speaker 3 (01:48):
How are you? Is there a reason that you thought
I'm exceptionally well?
Speaker 2 (01:50):
It's sunny, It's a glorious sunny.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
Day, and you're stuck inside chatting to me.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
But I've had a lovely morning and afternoon out in
that beautiful sun.
Speaker 3 (01:59):
Johne lovely prop a summer.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
The Bodic blooming.
Speaker 3 (02:02):
Actually the boodcor I sort of tie. I mean, I
think been a couple of seasons when they came up
quite early. But they are looking pretty good.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Okay, I look gorgeous and I do love them.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
Hey. What our first question, that the one that I
teased at the start of the show, was the question
around whether you are better? And I'm going to tie
it into something we shared when you shared with me
before we came on air about how much some people
are spending on property. But just the question when it
comes to investing, are you better to spend as much
(02:33):
as possible on investing or on a particular property. And
the thought has crudely put that if you were to
make it ten percent or twenty percent profit eventually on
a two million dollar property, property, property, that's like anyway, no.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
One determined twenty.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
Twenty on a two million dollar property is four hundred
thousand dollars. Whereas if you've sort of just been conservative
with your investment, you've escaped. So you got a five
hundred thousand dollar property, then you've made one hundred thousand.
So are you best to spend as much as you
can on investment property? And it's a crudely put question,
but there is something about being a bit more bold,
(03:13):
isn't there? And sometimes those luxury properties, when they really
do go up, mind you, two million dollars in Auckland,
it's just about the average house price.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
Yeah, it's funny. Once upon a time, you know, when
I'm a millionaire, I'll be able to afford a house
in Auckland. It's not quite what we dreamed of when
we were small kids, was it?
Speaker 3 (03:30):
Who would have thought? Yeah, when we were growing up,
that average house price in Auckland would be I'm.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
A millionaire, I'll be the median house price in Auckland.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
What do you think about that, that idea that it's
better and maybe the mess Maybe the question is really
about being bolder than you're prepared to be. But of
course property markets don't always go up.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
No they don't. And the thing too, is that the properties.
You know, first you've got to fund that two million
dollar property, and so you are taking a much bigger
risk on our single property keeping that rented your market
for you know, if you're looking for you know, two
thousand dollars a week is an enormous rent, which is
(04:09):
you know, to get sort of around about a five
percent gross return on that too million dollar property, not
you know, you're gonna have a lot of vacancy in
that so you're at risk of a very small segment
to the market. You're going to afford to spend two
thousand dollars a week on property, There's not that many
people who are going to be using that money to rent,
so you know, you may find yourself with a very
(04:29):
expensive mortgage and no income.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
It's possibly a question more about what people's appetite for riskers, really,
isn't it, Because if you're going to go really big
time and extend yourself as far as possible, it's a
much risky game and you have to be aware of
that absolutely.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
And the thing is, if you're going to extend yourself
that much to provide for an investment, you see that
much on residential housing, you probably want to live in
it yourself.
Speaker 3 (04:56):
Because one of the other things I hadn't thought of this,
but you mentioned to me before we were before we
came on air, was maybe the question is whether you
instead of buying one be property at two million dollars,
you might buy three at six hundred thousand or four.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
I think that would be sort of maybe seven or eight.
I think, you know, if you were going to put
that much into the residential property market, I would absolutely
be doing it in lumps of three. You're spreading your
risk in terms of the locations that you might choose.
And the thing is, it's also worth remembering it's those
mid range properties where you're going to probably see the
(05:31):
greater amount of growth. That luxury end of the market
has times when it does not go up, and it
doesn't always go up in the same proportions as things,
you know, which are more in the which are more affordable,
more available to a greater part of the market.
Speaker 3 (05:50):
Intuitively, it does sound it sounds more bearable for some reason,
even if you say I've got a look, I know, look,
I appreciate anyone who's listening. Not everyone is in the
position to be buying investment property, and some people just
want to buy their first time et cetera. But nevertheless,
you know, the question around having two properties worth seven
hundred and fifty thousand, if you're in that that lucky
(06:11):
position to do that, it does feel intuitibly a lot
safer than just one big one where it's like all
or nothing, tenants are out, that's it, that's right.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
Your incomes dream is as seriously catailed, and you've got
a big, hefty mortgage coming out on a monthly basis.
So from a spreading it spreads your risk, and also
it is you know when you're trying to get out
of that, it's going to have a greater level of liquidity.
When you're trying to get out of that two million
(06:42):
dollar property, you know you're not always going to find
the right buyer at the right time. Whereas if you've
got something that's got mass market appeal. When you need
or want to turn that into cash, you're going to
generally find that a lot easier to do than something
that is in the more rarefied here, well what used
to be rarefied here once upon a time.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
If you are a property investor, you think of doing it, Actually,
we'd love to hear from you about your approach to risk.
Actually do you do you spend as much money as
you possibly can, because I have known I know some
people who have by virtue of good timing and you
know what they well probably researched people, I think, but
they put everything, everything into property as much as they could,
(07:24):
and they happened to be fortunate that they were investing
in property at a time when it was just going
gangbusters and leverage was king, and they've set themselves up
for life and beyond. But yeah, it's not always that straightforward,
I guess, because if you'd done that in twenty twenty.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
One, as interest rates and when interest.
Speaker 3 (07:46):
Rates were cheap and leverage was so tempting, then unless
you got out straight away.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
Yeah, yeah, it's one of the reasons why the Reserve
Bank introduced the debt to income ratio constraints, because the
idea is that you stop people from loading up on
vast amounts of debt in the times when it's you know,
you can get it at four four and a half percent,
so that when it gets to seven and eight percent,
as it's been for a lot of this year, you
(08:12):
are not going through a hole on the floor.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
What are the debt to income restrictions at the moment?
Are they too restrictive? Do you think there is a
bit of criticism of the I can't speak criticism of
the Reserve Bank that it is too restrictive and they
need to No.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
I think the timing of the introduction of the DTIs
was actually quite well done in terms of may well
have been just fortuitous. But at the moment, the debt
to income ratios won't stop anybody who's already being stopped
by that the bank's test rates, essentially because interest rates
are so much higher than they have been.
Speaker 3 (08:50):
Because there are exceptions to the debt to restrictions. If
you happen to be an orthopedic surgeon or something, I
imagine you can probably buy a little bit higher percentage.
I guess thinking of someone who's earning a lot of money.
There are exceptions to it out there on a debt
to income, I'm thinking, sorry, I'm thinking deposits. Plebely got
confused there. Sorry.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
That also the thing is because we've got the loan
to value restrictions and the and the gtiyes that that
the lvrs are sort of constraining anybody because of the
size of because of the rate, because of the level
of interest rates. Right, the DTIs are basically not really
(09:29):
is not knocked out by the lvrs.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
And I completely a mixed one with the other for
a second there, and I was thinking, what am I
talking about? Thank them as you correct me.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
It is nearly Christmas.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
It is. It is nearly Christmas. But we'd like to
tay from you on your attitude towards it. Look, the
broader question is I put it in a way, it's like,
as it always better just to spend as much as
you can, because ten percent of two million is all
of a lot more than ten percent of the lesser amount.
But I guess the question is what is your attitude
to risk? Because maybe your attitude to risk is actually
changing a little bit now because it doesn't feel as terrifying.
(10:00):
Possibly now as it might have when interest rates were
very little and probably went through the roof and all
of a sudden, no, no interest rates are on their
way up eight hundred and eighty ten eighty. We've also
got a philosophical question. We're going to ask you about
something to do with how much money speed people are
spending at the top end of the market, which I'll
get on too in a moment, but we're going to
take some calls first. And Paul, good afternoon.
Speaker 4 (10:23):
Yeah, you, Bobby, I don't like me because I've always
mentioned my properties. I bought my property about twenty five
thirty years ago the best ones to buy a block
of flats because it looked like I've told you, my
flat has got five four flats in the one house.
I think you might have had two ones where you
make all the money, or.
Speaker 3 (10:44):
I think you might have called it We've chatted about
with you and Nicole Lewis, I think, because I think
that's something she's been She's been quite keen on as
having multiple sources of income from your investment. Yeah, carry on, yeah.
Speaker 4 (10:57):
Yeah, And like I said, I paid four hundred and
sixty thousand for it and it's worth over two million
dollars two million dollars, two million dollars.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
Now, I think bravo, who you just ring up to bloat?
Speaker 4 (11:11):
You did that last time. You did that last.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
Well you called back to say the same thing.
Speaker 4 (11:16):
I'm just meeting. I'm just making it est to buy
one's block block of fact if you can can get them,
because you make them more money on then individual separate one. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
Look, I agree with that, and you've got a quite
a diversification of your income. You've got four different You've
got four occupants then, and you know four unlikely unless
other than in COVID lockdowns, that all four of them
all loose the jobs at the same time. So it
does give you that certainty of income flow.
Speaker 3 (11:46):
Has that been your own investment, Paul? Have you got
other sort of property investments you could share with us
in that respect?
Speaker 4 (11:52):
The only one I've got is in the tower po No,
But like I have mentioned to you, take it does
taken about ten thousand dollars every five weeks and profit.
Speaker 3 (12:02):
Well well done you. We are going to take a
couple of going to lie down and we'll be back
in just a moment. It's twenty past four news talks.
He'd be shame.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
Let's so.
Speaker 4 (12:13):
I've kind of the sears.
Speaker 5 (12:22):
So big.
Speaker 3 (12:27):
I love you baby. I can see when I tunes contry. Unfortunately,
we have to eat into it there on the pogues
before it actually gets to the rhythmic. But but we
might actually, oh, there it is. There's a little bit
(12:48):
of it. There we go. Gosh, that is a rollicking
old song. Is that Christmas? Even though it's got some
questionable lyrics that they have to alter for the g
rted ones for radio. Then anyway, welcome back to the
One With Radio show. I'm Tim Beverage. My guest is
Helen O. Sullivan. She is the CEO of real estate
the Velocity Global. That's the A L O I sorry
(13:10):
V A l O C I T y goodness man,
well over the place, Helen. Actually there was some sorry,
we'll put your microphone on there, thank you.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
You obviously need some Christmas some Christmas ignog to get
you back in the floor.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
Then that does feel very sort of Christmas e ignog, and.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
Daytime drinking definitely feels like Christmas.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
It does either other that or is the time for
someone to intervene anyway, Now, now we're talking about how
much people should invest when it comes to their appetite
for risk. I guess I've amended that question as we've
gone on with a more sensible angle as opposed to
should you spend as much as possible in one property
and you're better to spread that risk. I do have
one question before we get onto that interesting other one
(13:54):
I've got up my sleeve. But um, you know properties
that are multiple properties like that are specifically built as
rentals these days. Actually, yeah, they're multi key. You know
the use you know, I mean we lived in one
that's been all freeholder but would have been originally set
up as four rentals, and you know, you see them
(14:17):
smatter it all over the place. There's four or five
they strung along in a row. You've got a common
two or three washing lines and things like that. These days,
of course, the multiple sort of type of situational b
apartments which become the sexy sort of thing as you
will attest to. But do those sort of multi unit rentals,
how do they behave in terms of the rest of
(14:39):
the market on capital growth?
Speaker 2 (14:45):
They tend they do, they hate They show capital growth
along with the rest of the market, possibly not as
much as those with large land parcels underneath them, because
you don't necessarily have an ongoing development potential in a
property like that. But they are solid earners in terms
of being easy to rent, and you know they are.
(15:09):
They tend to be low they're low touch.
Speaker 3 (15:12):
And actually, I guess that, sorry to interrupt, I'm guessing
I've almost about to answer my own question that if
they are easy to rent and there's always high demand,
then they are an attractive property for investors. So that
in its own way has any certain impetus on the
capital value, doesn't it.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
Yeah, that's right, because you know, it depends on whether
you are looking at a property purely for capital gain
or as a balance of a genuine income though coupled
with some capital gain. And they are, you know, particularly
modern ones. They're well built, they're warm, they're dry, their comfy,
(15:48):
they rent well, they're not hard to maintain. You have,
you know, you have the collective mechanism of a body
corporate to run a lot of the management of it.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
Sometimes sometimes Oh no, I'm just in the modern one.
I'm thinking old school, old school.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
Ones where you have cross leases. You've got to be
a little bit more careful, particularly if there are multiple
owners in the block, because there's often the cross laced
document is buried in the lease somewhere, and you've got
to use the courts to enforce those and it can
get really awkward. Collectively.
Speaker 3 (16:28):
Make sure you get on with your neighbors.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
Yeah, make sure you get on with your neighbors. Make
sure you've got sensible neighbors. That's not always. You don't
always get to pick your neighbors. It's the challenge.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
Was that that transfers into the whole quick. Well, I imagine, sorry,
when we're talking about those units that are all over
and using on three flats, I would imagine that that
they are well and I would imagine that people invest
in them. You own, that would be one owner who
would own all of them. I invest in that sort
(17:02):
of problem.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
Don't necessarily, I don't remember, aren't My great aunt lived
in a block like that, And you know, brick solid
as rock, been there for seventy odd years, been there
for another seventy years. And you know, cross leaves used
to be how we did stuff before we invented unit
titles in nineteen seventy two so that you can actually.
Speaker 3 (17:24):
Get your cross leaves converted. But I think that's probably one.
If it's more hassle than it's worth.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
Well, it's just that there's a lot of work involved
in a lot of surveys fees and a lot of
lawyers fees. And I've I looked into it once in
a cross lease that I owned and just decided it
was all just way too hard.
Speaker 3 (17:42):
We should we I've just told my progesser to make
a note for that, because we should actually have a
chat about cross leases, but there wasn't. So when it
comes to modern apartments as investments though, and I know
we've touched on this before, but as we're talking about
how much to invest in, you know, should you be
looking at buying a smaller a number of properties that
are cheaper perhaps, although some apartment apartment developments can be
(18:07):
pretty flash, yeah, just buying one can be quite a reach.
Where are we at with the quality with apartments as
an investment? Because the reason I've always been, well, I'm
not an investor anyone a chicken. But the reason I
would have traditionally been cautious about it is that the
(18:28):
latest apartment that looks awesome is great until it's not
the latest apartment, And all of a sudden there's another
star in town. The next block of apartments has gone
up by a fantastic architect, and everyone moves on to that.
So what does it mean for the investment you've bought?
So how would you what would your comments be on
investing in apartments as a form of investment in real estate?
Speaker 2 (18:49):
So my comment would be number one, pick you're developer,
so you know, research the developer and make sure that
you know, have a look at their other product. Basically,
what else have they built? How old is it and
does it still look nice ten, fifteen, twenty years after
the first ones went up? But you know, I think
(19:10):
for an investment, you're probably not looking at the flashiest, newest,
hottest apartment building in town so much as you're looking
for good, solid quality that will continue. You know there's
built in a good location, because I mean, the good thing,
the great thing about apartments is that you're not building
apartments out the back of beyond. You're building them in
(19:31):
places where there's high amenity and high demand, where people
want to live, that are close to transport and shopping
and stuff like that.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
Is there a way because a lot of the time
people have Obviously every developer wants you to buy off
the plans.
Speaker 5 (19:46):
Yea.
Speaker 3 (19:46):
Ideally that's the developer's goal is they've all been sold
before we even well.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
It's generally the only way they actually get the development started.
A certain amount of presales sufficient. Generally, the rule of
thumb is that the developer needs to pre sell enough
apartments to cover the debt that they're going to need
to raise to to complete the development.
Speaker 3 (20:07):
So how how can prospective buyers actually, let's face it,
whether you've be an investor, investor or you want to
live in it, what's the best you've given us?
Speaker 5 (20:17):
One?
Speaker 3 (20:18):
One answer is that go with a tried and true
developer with a good reputation. But there also is are
there other ways of ascertaining what a good what a
good design and construction looks like. Off the plans.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
Look at lots and lots and lots of them. Go
to the open homes, look at the look at the designs,
look at the look at the you know the generally
a lot of these, a lot of the developers will
also have a model made of the buildings so you
can see what it looks like in three D. The
more you look at them, the more you start to
(20:52):
understand what a good floor plan looks like. Go and
look at other buildings that are completed and then look
at the plans and get you you know, get your perspective,
get a sense perspective of what sixty square meters looks like,
for example, and you know where you want the space
to be in that sixty square meters. So you can
(21:14):
actually appreciate what good design, because good and bad design is.
You know, apartments are all about good and bad design.
You can build something that is sixty five square meters
and it can look smaller than something that has been
well designed and it's fifty square meters.
Speaker 3 (21:28):
Actually, that's amazing how sixty square meters or whatever it is.
I look at our apartment that we've got, which is
up about one hundred or ninety or something, but I
was thinking if it was we're sort of stuck with
the walls that were building and the way it's sort
of put together. In fact, renovating, we just took out
some walls. But it is amazing when you go into
(21:50):
a smaller space, if it's been well designed, how it
can feel. Yeah, it's the sort of magic of design,
I guess, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
It's just you know, architects can be very very clever. Yeah,
and particularly with small you know, I'm a big fan
of boats, and you can see in a really great
apartment design uses a lot of the techniques that boat
builders use in terms of maximizing the use of space.
It draws underneath stairs and things like that.
Speaker 3 (22:16):
It's like the tiny home movement, which is different again,
but I mean you can see some tiny homes where
it looks quite big. Mind your wide angle lens usually
on Instagram, does to that. What about things like if
you're living in an apartment. One of the biggest things
I would think is a sense that you when you're
in your apartment, you're not going to hear your neighbors
(22:36):
all the time. How can you How would you ascertain
whether the sound put the sound.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
Acoustics acoustics, how good the acoustic.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
And the baffling and all that sort of thing.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
Well, there are minimum standards in the building code for
acoustic transmission between apartments, but it is a really good
question to ask the developer about, you know, whether or
not they're doing above code in any of their acoustic management,
because you're right, that makes a big difference, and good
(23:08):
quality apartments you don't. You don't have to listen to
your neighbors having an argument or or you know, cooking dinner.
You you just you shut, you shut the door, and
you're in your space.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
So what did you mean? You're an apartment dweller. I am,
and you, in fact, you.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
Are an apartment of fionado.
Speaker 3 (23:25):
Ficionado. You're in avowed apartment dweller. You're the cheerleader.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
Ever going back to standalone home living.
Speaker 3 (23:32):
You miss moaning the lawns, well earth? What I miss
moving lawns an intrinsic satisfaction well cut grass?
Speaker 2 (23:40):
Yeah, no, I do not miss mowing lawns.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
What research did you do for your unspecified development?
Speaker 2 (23:48):
My unspecified development? I spend a lot of time understanding
the development company, in the development market and studying an
enormous amount of floor plans. So I looked at the
you know, I've researched a lot of apartments. I've seen
a lot of them. I've seen good ones and I've
seen not so good ones.
Speaker 3 (24:09):
And what was it that got you over the line
for you making the decision about this one?
Speaker 2 (24:14):
Then the developer's reputation, the location and the quality of
the building fit out excellent.
Speaker 3 (24:25):
We would love to take your calls about this as well,
about your attitude to apartments as an investment. If you
were going to buy an investment apartment, what would your
approach be, because obviously it's completely different. You're buying something
for a lifestyle where you just love where you live,
and you do ten out of ten by the sound
of it from what you've described to me. But how
would you approach Would it be difficult for you to
(24:46):
buy an investment apartment because no, I.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
Do have an investment you have the I do and
similar sort of approach. Again, then the financial analysis of
it becomes really important. What am I going to be
able to get from you? What are the rents likely
to be from this? But then fundamentally it's going to
rent for this much money, Am I going to always
be able to keep it full? And that comes down
(25:10):
to where is the building? Is it appealing? Is it attractive?
Does it have features that are attractive to you? Know?
The building I have bought in has great amenity for
a resident. It's got a residence lounge, it's got a
work from home space as part of the residence lounge.
It's got a spare room that people can book and
(25:31):
it is, you know, in a.
Speaker 3 (25:32):
Great department, a work from home space, work from home space,
but not in the apartment.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
Not in the apartment. There's a lounge on the top floor, wow,
which is available to all the residents in the building.
It's got magnificent views over the city. It's got a
room that you can book. So when you're your auntie
is coming down from coming down to stay with you,
you don't have to put her in your bed and
sleep on the couch. You can book the room and
(26:02):
the clean Yep, there's a work from home space. So
you've got community in your building. So you might have
a smaller home that you live in, but you've got
you know you can.
Speaker 3 (26:11):
And this is your investment property. Yeah, wow, one you'd
live in yourself as well.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
That's sort of my rule of thumb. If I would
live in it myself, if I would have lived in
it myself as younger me, then it's obviously you know,
it's going to appeal to a market.
Speaker 3 (26:27):
Which student Helen has stayed here.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
Student of Helen would have thought she was absolutely Quinson
if she'd been able to find something like that to
live in. She was a student.
Speaker 3 (26:36):
Obviously shows out the lack of the lack of insight
or research I've done into apartments because all those things
I'm going.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
Really, your face is a picture.
Speaker 3 (26:47):
We'll be back to sack some calls in just a moment,
and we do have another question we might try and
touch on before we wrap it up, and it's based
on the amount of money that has been spent at
the top top end of the market, which is a
lot clue and if you and the question for you
being if you suddenly found yourself in the money like
a lotto when it's twenty three million the weekend, how
much would you feel comfortable spending when it comes to
(27:09):
pushing the boat out on a property. We might just
tie that in for a bit of fun, because you know,
we've gotta have a little bit of fun on the show.
It's twenty three minutes to five news talks. He'd be.
Speaker 6 (27:20):
Wh ah, okay, there's always got to be a stinker,
doesn't it?
Speaker 3 (27:30):
A bit of Cliff Richard Christmas. I'm assuming we're playing
this because my my producer and her youthful naivety loves it.
Cliff Richard. Anyway, if you like this, then all power
to you. I'm Tim Beverages the Week in Collective wonderof
Radio show. My producer tire Is give me a bit
of a dirty look there for bagging her Christmas song,
(27:50):
but we'll get over it anyway. Helena Sullivan. Yeah, Cliff Richard,
he's coming over. You're not going to go and see
him and concert? An't you?
Speaker 2 (27:58):
Well? Not? No, I will not be, probably will not be.
Speaker 3 (28:01):
You can't make all the concerts, can you. Anyway? Let's
go to some calls whalking about apartment investments, and you
know what makes an attractive investment for you as an investor?
Is it something you would imagine you'd love living in
yourself or a younger version of you? And Ray?
Speaker 5 (28:17):
Hello, Hi, I wouldn't touch an apartment with a barge pole.
Speaker 3 (28:22):
Why not?
Speaker 5 (28:24):
There's too many of them that leak. There's too many
of them that the soundproofing doesn't work, the fireproofing is
not not good enough. It's a night near waiting to happen.
Have you had mounted and road and then a building's
not built long ago. One year later they've got scaffolding
around it and they're doing major works. And that's a
(28:47):
big reputable person. They did the same out. It's called
stone Fields. I wouldn't touch them. You had, I think
we now had a build apartments.
Speaker 3 (28:58):
Have you had some bad experiences personally? I've just you've
seen some of you think.
Speaker 5 (29:02):
That doesn't I a friend have an absolute numerous foands
actually have absolute nightmares with them.
Speaker 3 (29:09):
Okay, Helen, do you want to check to them.
Speaker 2 (29:13):
Helen, look a lot of the building A lot. I
think this is one of the issues with apartment dwelling
is that there is still a stigma attached to them,
resulting from some of the really horrific things we put
up in the eighties.
Speaker 5 (29:29):
I'm talking about, Helen, in the last three years.
Speaker 2 (29:33):
Look, I've not actually personally seen any of the modern
ones by current developers that were around.
Speaker 5 (29:44):
You go down Mount Eden Road near Quarry less than
one year after they were built, full scaffolding around them.
Something had gone drastically wrong, though attempted, and they're at
it again. Look at Stonefields, look at the documentary on it,
and they are not old buildings.
Speaker 3 (30:02):
I'll I'll have a bit of a read up about that.
But yes, thanks, Ray, I don't know that Stonefield's had
anything particularly controversial going around them. I do. I have
seen one. I do remember there was one. It might
have been in just a house that had been built,
and I remember a couple of years later seeing that
it had the cling wrap around it us thinking, oh,
I wonder what's gone on there. But it's difficult without
(30:23):
commenting on a particular development, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
Yeah, Look, I have to actually know which development we're
talking about. There are Look, there's no question that can
be higher risk space. But again, this is why I
counsel that you look at the developer very carefully and
make sure that you're working with somebody who's extremely reputable,
because things might go wrong. I think as if you're
with somebody who's got a sufficient balance sheet to fix it,
(30:48):
then that's you know, it's inconvenient, but it's not financially ruinous.
Speaker 3 (30:53):
Hey, now there was something I've been threatening to talk
about for a while, and I need to get onto
it before the shows, before the hour's over. But we're
talking about some of the data that's come out about
the money that's been spent at the top end of ten.
What's that?
Speaker 2 (31:06):
Yeah, I think there are a couple of properties this
year that seld in the twenty million dollar range, which
is which is a fairly large part of spandulis to
put in one place.
Speaker 3 (31:16):
It is a hell of a lot of money to
spend on it.
Speaker 2 (31:19):
Yeah, we were speculating, and well, what does a house
you have to have to make, you know, to spend
twenty million? I don't know if you've ever seen it.
There's a magnificent x account x slash Twitter called Zillo
Gone Wild and they it's great, it's properly porn. It's fantastic,
and they run away amazing houses, interesting houses, freaky houses,
(31:43):
crazy houses, houses with dungeons in the basement, houses with
all sorts of crackcry stuff. It's fantastic. Well, you can
go right down it's a magnificent rabbit hole. You can
go right down that one.
Speaker 3 (31:55):
Do we know much about that? Who bought? Who's spinning
twenty million bucks on a house?
Speaker 2 (32:01):
I didn't have that detail to hear.
Speaker 3 (32:03):
Oh, I know, it's I mean, how much money would
you have to have for a twenty million dollar spend
on a property to be something that you could consider? So,
for instance, if you won Powerball and Powerball this weekends
twenty three million dollars, which I call that a truckload
of money.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
A considerable amount of spend is years.
Speaker 3 (32:25):
But it's funny. I was trying to think, how much
would I feel comfortable spending on a house out of
twenty three million.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
Yeah, that certainly wouldn't be twenty of it.
Speaker 3 (32:34):
But have you ever considered how much you would spend
on a house versus how much money you would have?
Not in your own life, but if you came into
a summer money that was outlandish.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
How much of a moable amount of cash.
Speaker 3 (32:49):
How much percent how much as a percentage of that
sort of wealth you'd spend on a house? And I
don't think I could spend more than I mean this
is I mean, this is here. I am the Toko
coast on overnight, so here we are. We fantasizing here.
But I did buy a ticket. I won twenty three mil.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
That's what there selling, the selling.
Speaker 3 (33:06):
The dream, Well they are. But if I won twenty
three million, I don't think I'd be happy spending more
than a quarter of it. And even then I would
probably feel a sense of tightness.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
I would still Yeah, it would be a bit of
a kleen chet decision. Well, yeah, I was sort of thinking,
I know it's wild speculation, but anything more than for
more or five million. I think i'd sort of struggle
with Yeah.
Speaker 3 (33:31):
I think there was a property that Grant Dalton had
sold in Victoria, av which was in fact sold for
a lot less. He sold it quite for quite a
good profit, but it was such a gorgeous house. I
remember thinking, Oh, maybe if you had the money, you'd
I guess if it was a really amazing property that
inspired you as to what you could do with it
(33:51):
and your how you could have, the hosting you could
do and all that sort of thing, then maybe you would.
It would squeeze extra million or two. It's a fun
topic to think that.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
That's why, great topic to think about.
Speaker 3 (34:03):
That's why I love our one roof property of the
week or something.
Speaker 2 (34:05):
Yes, the one roof property is.
Speaker 3 (34:09):
Yeah, anyway, if you we might have time to Oh,
by the way, the buyer is a private But the
top two most expensive sales this year where John Keyes
previous home and Grant Dalton's old home.
Speaker 2 (34:21):
There you go, wow, but not actually being sold by
either of those two individuals because now not the current
vendel correct.
Speaker 3 (34:28):
The twenty minute this is my producer provided to me
this information. The twenty million dollar your property you're talking
about was originally owned by Grant Dalton.
Speaker 5 (34:35):
Right.
Speaker 3 (34:36):
It's funny. When I was going for a walk today,
speaking of gorgeous properties, there is one. I have no
idea who owns it, and I'm not going to speculate
and draw too much attention to it. But it's on
a walk I do up around the cliffs and Saint Helias,
and as I was walking past, I have never seen
a human being in it. And it is one of
those properties that goes from it goes from one road
through to the other. And I was thinking, if I
(34:56):
was a really cheeky person, I'd drop a note in
the letterbox saying, listen, if you want someone to look
like this property has lived and I'm happy to house
set it for free. I've got a couple of kids, hosts,
some people will make the house look lived in. Just
let us know. We'll do it for nothing.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (35:10):
I used to live in Herne Bay and the Sultan
la Brune's place, which they have now sold. But that,
similarly for color, is a whole two blocks and literally
never saw a human being going in or out of it.
Speaker 3 (35:26):
It seems a travesty.
Speaker 2 (35:27):
It does seem quite sad. There's whole streets in London
where similarly you know Knights bridget there where it's own,
they're all owned by by non doms who don't don't
don't like it hollows out communities and I think that's
actually that.
Speaker 3 (35:43):
I think it is a shame that if you're these
that you just don't see these places being lived in. Anyway, look,
we're going to come back, and I've got my hopes
up for the one with properly of the Week, which
I haven't previewed yet actually because I like to do
it as a nice surprise for myself. So I'm hoping
that Tyra isn't going to disappoint me by having it
being a multi unit block of flats and she's looking
(36:05):
at me. Anyway, back in the moment Newstalk s there'd
be eleven minutes to five.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
The one roof Property of the Week on the Weekend Collective.
Speaker 3 (36:15):
Yes, welcome back. My guest is Helen O'Sullivan. But as
the sting says, it's the one with Property of the
week and it is a gorgeous property. Again. It graces
a seven hundred and eighty nine square meter site which
stretches from the road to the water. It's interesting that
the photo of the front photo of it makes it
look kind of old school, haunted housey sort of thing,
(36:36):
except it happens to be on the coast and sunshine
and near Devonport. In Devonport, should I say, And it's
got an adjoining three bedroom apartment which has currently rented
it just under one thousand dollars a week, which not
a bad little prospect, is it. It's got a lovely garden,
big lawns, and the price is affordable. If I win
(36:57):
the lotto, Helen, if I win twenty three million, I
could possibly stretch to the estimated four point twenty five million.
Well I could stretch to actually, And it's got a
four bathrooms, seven bedrooms, two car garage and I'm not
sure if the seven bedrooms include the extra income. But
it's five Stanley Point Road in Stanley Point, Devenport, north
(37:22):
Shore City, right on the water. By the look of it, gorgeous.
What do you reckon, Helen, It's just cracking.
Speaker 2 (37:26):
You'd lie in bed and feel like you're actually out
on the water.
Speaker 3 (37:30):
It's interesting because the house is done stuff from the
external aspect of the house looks well, looks very difport.
Speaker 2 (37:38):
Yeah, it'll bit and sort of looks very circuit eighteen nineties,
you know, traditional colonial architecture. It's been beautifully real fully refurbished.
Speaker 3 (37:49):
Inside, yes, and inside it is quite it's quite modern,
isn't it very much? And the views, I mean, goodness,
me so views to live for built in the nineteen twenties,
I'm told you go so and it looks like it's
built in nineteen twenties. But the interior look most of Devonport,
apart from the leather sofa which looks decidedly nineteen eighty one.
Speaker 2 (38:10):
We're not buying the furniture.
Speaker 3 (38:13):
Anyway. Helen, thanks so much for coming on the show
this year.
Speaker 2 (38:17):
It's been such a pleasure. Thank you for having me.
Speaker 3 (38:19):
Tim And if people want to check out your company's work, Velocity.
Speaker 2 (38:24):
We are one roof data partners, so it's been spend
more time on one roof dot cod or ensured and
you'll be filling your boots with velocities, jolly.
Speaker 3 (38:34):
Data and information. That's right, are you heading away for
a bit of a break.
Speaker 2 (38:40):
Or god spending a bit of time at a friends
holiday home in the unfashionable point Whels which is the
unfashionable part of Omaha.
Speaker 3 (38:50):
The unfashionable, the old school.
Speaker 2 (38:53):
It's like, you know, the bit around the corner from
the from the flashed people.
Speaker 3 (38:56):
Hang on, I hang on, hang on, how on? So
that's other people would say that is a foundation.
Speaker 2 (39:01):
Omaha ah, I think older mahat.
Speaker 3 (39:05):
Because I mentioned that.
Speaker 2 (39:08):
Omaha.
Speaker 3 (39:09):
No, because one day, you know, because I heard it
in cash and when I was I was doing a
concert down there, went around for a function somewhere. I
was chatting with someone of because christ Chich has its
own sort of class system. There's you know, whether you're
from the first four ships, et cetera. But I said
are you are you have you just moved into Kashmir
And she said no, we're Foundation Kashmir. And I thought
(39:31):
foundation cash and I thought, that's that's the expression. It's like,
there'll be foundation, there'll be foundation everywhere. Foundation Cashmere does
sound kind of kind of flash.
Speaker 2 (39:41):
It does sound well, even better, it sounds like it
sounds like or a highly distracted wooly garmant that's going
to scratch you exactly.
Speaker 3 (39:51):
Hey, thanks so much, Helen. We will be back shortly
with the parents squad. Google Sullivan, Sorry, Google Sutherland. There
we go. Not o Sullivan. We're saying goodbye to way
Sullivan and saying hello to Sutherland Dog. Sutherland joins us,
talking about perfectionist kids and prize givings. News talksi B
It's just gone four minutes to five on News TALKSIB.
Speaker 1 (40:32):
For more from the weekend collective, listen live to news
Talks it B weekends from three pm, or follow the
podcast on iHeartRadio
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