November 28, 2025 • 41 mins
It's one of the most important decisions a homeowner will make when putting their property on the market - choosing the your method of sale.
You've got auctions, asking price, price by negotiation, and my least favourite - tender - but which method is the most attractive to buyers? And which gives sellers the best chance of getting the highest possible price?
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks b.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Dollar.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
Yes, welcome and welcome back to the Weekend Collective. I'm
Tim Beverage and we want your calls now on one
hundred eighty t and eighty or text on nine two,
nine to two, and this is the one roof radio
show and we're going to kick it off with having
a chat about you know, the markets, the time of
year when you sort of feel you even in fact,
even if you're not buying or selling, you wander past
(00:55):
property and you see there's an open home. You think, oh,
just popping, popping and check the furnishings and the drapes.
See what they're doing these days, so what the latest is.
But it does sort of open your mind up whether
you may be you might even if it's not this
year or next year, you might get into the market again.
There are more people, as we know, first home buyers
who are getting into the market. But the question we're
going to dig into is, you know, obviously it's one
(01:18):
of the most important decisions a homeowner or a buyer
can make. But a homeowner when you are putting your
property on the market, is choosing the method of sale. Now,
there was a time on the One Roof radio show
where it was when you know, when the market was
going gangbust, is it was auction auction, auction, auction, and
it's a great way of finding the price and all
that sort of thing. And I was never totally convinced
by that by the auctioneers who are arguing that. But
(01:40):
anyway that you've got auctions, you've got asking price, price
by negotiation. My least favorite is tender. But there are
properties sometimes where tender may actually be the goods. But
which method there are a couple of things. What method's
going to get you the price you want when you
want it, I guess because an auction at least that's
you know, hopefully that's signed, sealed and delivered when people
(02:02):
make a successful bit. Although subjects to try active to buyers.
If you are in the market to buy a house,
are there methods of sale which would instantly turn you off?
You go, well, I'm not interested because you just don't
like whether it be price by negotiation or whether you
don't like auction. I know quite a few people who
never look at a property that's going for tender, and
(02:24):
what gives sellers the best chance to get in the
highest possible price. So anyway, we want your calls on
this eight hundred and eighty ten eighty what methy end?
Did you regret using it? Or you know what you
got in the market? You did the deal and then
the end. Fine, you're quite happy anyway to answer these questions,
we'll discuss them. I'm not sure if he wants to
give definitive answers on this bit. Have some strong opinions.
(02:45):
I'd imagine he is se man not wrong expression. He's
managing director at Harcourts, Cooper and Co. And he's Martin
Cooper of the title, I guess, and he's with us. Now,
Good day, Martin Haw, you going.
Speaker 4 (03:00):
Great, you're sitting here, What a great day, Aucklet's put
on another record breaking for November. The heat out there
so and the property market's heating up as well, which
is good. Not before time.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
Yeah. Actually, everyone loves their weekends. I guess real estate
agents joined they their weekends are different really because I
guess if you're a real estate agent, that's one thing
you give up as the weekends, because that's when your
market's out there with the time to have a look
isn't it.
Speaker 4 (03:29):
Oh yes, I did maybe thirteen years as a salesperson.
Now I lead my team, so I'm not as involved
in the actual physicality of running open homes and things.
But I do remember I used to see my kids
for brunch or something in the morning and to have
a bit of time. But back then I always were
a suit too. It's a a bit more casual now
as we live in dress, et cetera. But on Saturdays
(03:52):
and Sundays, after thirteen years of open homes, I remember
looking at people and jandles and T shirts and thinking
you lucky, lucky bugger. You know, I thought so and
so so and so. Yeah, yeah, because you've got a
bit of resentment. But the only thing was the return
for the commitment. You're at the coal face, that's when
(04:14):
you're doing the business. So when you were getting good remuneration,
you know, getting ahead, you thought, well, I can afford
to book a holiday or something. So everyone has to
be on the bus doing doing the work at some stage.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
But how big, I mean, how important a decision is
it on the method of sale these days, because and
there are trends according to what the market's doing. There
was a time when the market was gangbuster. Is that
just about everything was auction because people wanted to capitalize
on the friends of the auction room and you know,
(04:47):
looking at other buyers across the room and realizing you've
got to outbid them. What's your take on the method
of sale for Martin Cooper.
Speaker 4 (04:57):
Well, I'm an absolutely full on auction believer. But that
would because I've did over four hundred auction campaigns myself
as the agent, you know, right through the process from
start to finish, right until we got the property sold.
And I also called over two thousand residential property auctions,
(05:17):
and I can look you straight in the eye and
say I saw the magic out there. Not every time,
but you know, you gather the people up on the
front lawn of the property, and if you've had a
good campaign and they want it, it was enjoyable to
see them fighting for it, and some great prices were achieved.
But the other thing, as a buyer, I love going
and buying it an auction because I can face my
(05:40):
competition and I only need to be one thousand dollars
or two above them, So I just keep going until
I either run out of money or the buyers that
I'm trying to beat run out of money. And what
I find is it's also reassuring. If you go to
an auction that's three or four other people bidding, that
also gives me confidence that other people like what I like,
(06:01):
so I'd always be an option.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
I mean, the keep going thing is what some buyers
would like not to do, and they'd like to put
their bit in there and find out that they don't
have to keep going, you know what I mean.
Speaker 4 (06:11):
It's like, oh yeah, well look, look, it's the universal thing.
I've dealt with thousands of buyers and sellers, and the
two things the buyer wants to buy it as cheap
as possible and the seller wants to get as much
as possible. And you know, new buyers and they come
to the market, their biggest fear is am I going
to pay too much?
Speaker 3 (06:31):
Is that?
Speaker 4 (06:31):
So generally they won't buy the first property that you
show them, even if it's a perfect match. They will
need the reassurance of a real Buyers generally looked at
about twelve properties in the area and the market they
want to buy, and they suss out, they get to
know value, and then that gives them confidence to commit.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
How what proportion of the properties that went to auction
auction auction neither neither either either Potato Potato? What percentage
of the sell under the hammer? If you would look,
would you have an accurate oh yeah, or would you
have a romantic recollection of When Martin Cooper was the auctioneer,
(07:11):
we sold them all under the hangar bang sold.
Speaker 4 (07:14):
My boss is a great guy. Don kindly. When I
first started down in Dunedin, he said, Martin, I was
only back way back in nineteen eighty seven. Down there,
he said, I want you to do auctions. You know
that was I start in eighty three. But about eighty
seven he said, I want you to do these auctions,
and I thought, there's no.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
Way I want to be an auction yere old were you?
Speaker 4 (07:33):
Oh? I started real estate and I pested him for
a job when I was twenty one, Like I was young. Look,
this is another thing, you know, I spent ten years
being the youngest person in the office. Now we're fast
forward some forty years. I'm spending ten years being Oh.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
Well it's the oldest, it's ying and yang. Yeah. Yeah,
another experience.
Speaker 4 (07:54):
I was just sorry. I was getting nostalgic about my age.
But the question was at what percentage A percentage sold
under the sold under the hammer. Well, okay, as a
startup guy, I remember calling the first eleven auctions. My
boss was watching me so in case I made a mistake.
But no one bid, And then was it.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
Relief to you?
Speaker 4 (08:17):
No? No, no, I remember when the first person bid,
because you then you're able to just put bids in.
It was strange. You'd look at the light fitting if
you're inside, or the couch and all these there's no
one bidding, but you were putting bids in. You were
coached and told to put in. They weren't called vendor
bids then they were called dummy bids. You just put
a bid in to create some energy. So would you.
Speaker 3 (08:37):
Actually pretend you'd seen someone hold the hand? Okay, yes,
we have one hundred and fifty thousand.
Speaker 4 (08:42):
The auction is fantastic. Now that Real Estate Institute board
in proper rules code of contact, you if you put
a bid in on behalf of a vendor.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
You have to say I have it, we're going with
it on behalf.
Speaker 4 (08:55):
Of the vendor. It's very very clear that it's not
a live bidder that you're competing with it's just telling
the market this is a price that the vendor will
not sell for. You have to be above. This gives
them a hind or guideline. But back in the olden days,
last century, they didn't have any of these protocols, so
you'd be looking at the hedge and that would there
be a bird flight as another business like sorry about
(09:18):
that the consumers back in those days. But after eleven
auctions and no one had actually done a physical bid,
a fellow was leaning against the hedge and he winked
at me, which indicated movement, and that was his way
of bidding. And I almost had to stop the auction
and say, what do I do?
Speaker 3 (09:36):
Someone's bid, someone's winked at me. Do they want to
have dinner with me?
Speaker 2 (09:39):
Or no?
Speaker 4 (09:41):
No, no, no, they was serious. But it was a good
looking man. But no, they was serious. Actually that is.
Speaker 3 (09:50):
We should touch on that as well. Methods a But
to me, I would think that's obviously an experienced bidder
because they are quite confident in just going that's enough
for me, whereas most people will be like wanting to
do some large gesture for their bid, wouldn't they.
Speaker 4 (10:04):
He just wanted to be subtle. I just got a
great Stephen Bock or Richard Bock. I get confused the
cricketer for New Zealand, the two brothers. But Stephen last century,
but a great cricketer. He came to bidding an auction
once and he had a bit of profile in the community.
I remember he didn't want to identify that he was interested,
(10:28):
so he brought along holiday disguises, great sense of humor.
I'm the auctioneer, and he put on a wee bella clava,
and a pair of big biggle's nose and glasses. Each
time he bid. It was good. He didn't want people
to know who was bidding, so he he's sure going
to attract He accentuated it further than he needed to.
But look for the listeners out there. I can tell
(10:50):
you a whole lot of stories that I find fascinating.
One day, I'm calling an auction, no action, there's nothing happening.
A guy leans into the hedge and disturbs it. Disturbs
a beehive. The swarm of bee's come out and everyone's
waving around around, and I thought, man, there's a lot
of taking.
Speaker 3 (11:11):
Went up proquably.
Speaker 4 (11:15):
Yeah, so percentage of numbers of auction that sell. I
can give you an example, when it was gushing in
twenty twenty three, we were doing about ninety two percent
was out for that year. Properties it's sold under the hammer.
You know the market there was fomo fear of missing out,
so the buyers would bid and the sellers were getting
way beyond what they wanted, so that was great. It
(11:36):
was just real estate heaven days. Then through the recession
times when we at the cost of living crisis, the
higher interest rates, clearance rates, and auctions under the hammer
got down to about thirty percent, three three out of
ten would sell at the moment. Last week in our
rooms we had thirty eight actions, so that was reasonable
number and we're over well over twenty of those sold
(11:59):
now about nineteen sold under the hammer and a couple
of being negotiated afterwards, so we're up to about six
sixty sales rate under the hammer.
Speaker 3 (12:09):
Have we seen Okay? And by the way, if you
just joined us, we're talking with Martin Kopervih he's from Harkwart's,
Cooper and co. About choosing the method of sale, whether
it be price by negotiation, and we've been we're obviously
hitting the auction topic fairly hard as well. But what
have you sold? What method of sale have you used,
(12:29):
or what's your view and what's the best. So does
that mean that if I'm a client of Hardwart's, Cooper
and Co. Then I'm probably going to be selling an
auction because you guys love it. Or do we see
a change in type of selling because people want to
make their price as accessible. They just want to sell
because you know, the market hasn't market had been has been?
(12:53):
You know soft. I love the euphemisms around property. A
it's soft at the moment, which sounds almost appealing. It's
nice and.
Speaker 4 (13:00):
Soft, it's cozy. See, you can choose just an agent
will try and influence you. You know, when they go through,
they'll discuss advertising it with a set price, by negotiation,
a deadline sale, a tender, an option. There's many different methods.
Speaker 3 (13:20):
I want to need to write those down because you
might drill into them. So there's deadline, there's the price,
stated price.
Speaker 4 (13:26):
Isn't it it's just advertised price, which is.
Speaker 3 (13:30):
I mean that's generally you saying that this is the
most anyone will pay for the property, because no one's
going to suddenly offer more, really, are they? Unless you
suddenly have competing, well competing buyers.
Speaker 4 (13:41):
Occasionally you'll get people off of more because you get
two inspections or three and they both three of them
want it so effectively, then you'd say to yourself, well,
why didn't we do an auction, you know, because it's
a popular property. But so sometimes you'll get over an
asking price, but usually ninety percent of the time, the
asking price is the price that all buyers will try
(14:01):
and buy it at a lower price. How can they
negotiate it down?
Speaker 3 (14:07):
To me, look, I'm not expecting property obviously, having only
bought one house and that's one I'm in. Deadlines seem
to me sort of are they sort of an auction
When you're not having an auction, you're trying to get
a deadline sale Like this is when you know.
Speaker 4 (14:22):
Well, some agents will say, look, that exposes you to
the whole market because an auction you have to be unconditional.
You know, you have to have your money sorted and
you have to have your building inspection sorted, everything sorted.
So for the seller, that's real clarity. You know, when
you sell under the hammer, your deal has done, the
deposits paid, and the property should settle whereas a deadline
(14:44):
sale that opens it up. I'd like to buy your house,
but I've got a house. I've got a house to sell,
or i'd like to I need subjective finance, or I've
got to get engineers reports, and so you're not getting
complete clarity. But the benefit of a deadline sale is
you promote it and say we're this up for three
(15:06):
weeks of activity and interest, and on that date the
owner will be open to accept the best offer. So
I like a deadline sale from the point of view.
It has a fixed sale date. But I figure, if
you're going to go to all that trouble for the
sealer and all the time and effort that's involved, do
the auction. Because we're dealing, that's the first stage. We
(15:26):
deal with the unconditional best, most powerful buyers in the market.
Then if we don't sell at auction, then we go
like the conditional offers are open, then they can come in. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
Remember when I studied law, one of the popular ways
of bidding of making an offer for a property which
was subject to a subject to approval by the purchase's solicitor,
which was basically seen as an as an out and
there was a whole lot of litigation around whether it
meant that they had you know, whether you could just
(15:58):
pull out of the deal because your solicity said no,
it's a bad idea. But those were back in the
days where of course, you know, it was private treaty
and there was a generally listed price.
Speaker 4 (16:10):
Yeah, it still happens today. People can use that clause,
is it?
Speaker 3 (16:14):
I mean the popularity of auctions, is it? Because you
can do a lot of time wasting with people who
are subject to the sale of my house, subject to
the sale of this, or subject to finance. That do
how many of those sorts of deals that end up
coming off?
Speaker 4 (16:28):
Oh yeah, we got the fall down rate is substantial.
You know, if you've got three or four clauses, I
want subject to finance, subject of valuation, which was similar
to finance, subject to a building report, subject to an
engineers report, subject to is it got? What do you
call that other stuff that I was talking about, the
toxic stuff in the house, the asbestos, all that one.
(16:51):
You know, you can put all sorts of conditions in
a contract, then you can tick them off one by one.
Speaker 3 (16:56):
So what is okay? So if people do have those concerns,
say for an instance, in an auction, Yeah, how does
that all play out with regards to you know, engineering
reports and all that sort of stuff, because that's one
of the you know, you've got a bit, you're taking
it as it is.
Speaker 4 (17:12):
Well, our team expert. I feel now I've got your
house for sale. So we're going to get the LIMB report,
go through everything on it. Has it got the code
of compliance? Is everything sorted? Have it right the way through,
look at every detail of the property, and we iron
out all the bugs on the property, so it's a
clean property. Because if you go to the market and
(17:34):
it's got a leaky issue and you haven't got a
full report or you haven't fixed it, it's pointless really
if you've got a faulty property unless you say, hey,
as is whereas we got troubles here, come in and
bid for it and the best person can fix it up.
You know that's fine. But if you're trying to get
the best price you can, you don't want to go
(17:54):
to the market with a problematic property. You want to
tidy that up before and you do get agents that
might have a commissioned breath on that they want to sale,
say no, come now, do it now, do it now?
But I've got guys now been through the hoops of
going to the property because the vendor once it's sold,
and not having it prepared fit for market. But like
(18:14):
washing your car, getting a warrant of fitness, fixing the
brakes on your car before you're selling that, fix your
homerup before you go to market.
Speaker 3 (18:20):
Now, okay, what sort of method of sale do you prefer?
And if you're a buyer, what sort of preferred method
of sale do you prefer to engage with as a
buyer or is it all about the house? Andy ten
eighty Bruce today.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
Yeah, gooda, I'm youah, fascinating, fascinating talk. I'm listening to
Martin my preferred Well, firstly, I've been involved with the
property in Auckland and New Zealand for probably about forty
five years, and I've watched the property market in Auckland
in particular and with some pretty worrying signs which I
just like to discuss perhaps later on. But from my perspective,
(18:58):
we're non buying. In telling I probably would have just
trying to work out while I was waiting, I probably
have bought and sold learned about forty how I've got
none left now I've got some in Australia. But what
I find that the principal thing when I'm buying and
selling is a clean contract. You have your conditions on it.
(19:19):
But with all due respect from my experience, options are
are a real estate industry construct. All due respect here,
but they're a marketing plan which puts a real estate agent,
I believe, probably on an equal par with the vendor,
which is fair enough. But when you're doing a lot,
(19:41):
when you're doing buying and selling as a buyer, and
you know I'm being a cash buyer, well, of course
that's probably different because I've always been that way. But
when you see a house to sail, if you see
a price, then you're keen. You get really keen. You
want to have a look at it. If you know
(20:01):
the market and you say, okay, that's the price, you
know what you're looking at, if you want to building
inspection to get that, and then you do it that way.
The other business, from my perspective, you know, when you're
doing a lot of buying and selling is options tenders
the messy. You know, they're sort of well off, they're
good for the company, they get exposure, they get people
(20:23):
signing in, and as they view the house, you got
the contacts, and it's a sort of a cycle that
goes on. But coming back to my construct, it's a
real estate invention that I've found is cumbersome and it
really doesn't work in my favor. And I don't like.
Speaker 3 (20:42):
How did how did you sell your houses? You had forty?
How did you get rid of yours?
Speaker 5 (20:49):
All?
Speaker 1 (20:49):
By lifting as a price? Okay, just lifting as a price.
And what I did is I was able to gear
the price with the rental return. So I think I
was mainly selling to investors. Back in the day you
could get a ten we were for years, we were
getting ten percent return. We were buying sixty five grand
(21:10):
and reading them for one system. But those were the
good old days.
Speaker 3 (21:14):
But I just like, I just like, I'll just try
it to Martin so we can have the conversation here.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
I got another question after that.
Speaker 4 (21:21):
Yeah yeah, sure, okay, yeah sure, yeah, okay, Well, no, bruth, Look,
we let the seller choose if they if they wanted
to determine a price, I would be happy to represent
the seller. I also, from a buyer's point of view,
see if you get a vendor that decides to go
into an auction, and they're generally paying for their marketing.
(21:43):
You know, they're putting a substantial budget. Some of our
budgets seven or eight grand to buy a feature property
on trade me and obviously on one roof, which is
a good way to promote your property and other portals.
You've got to spend a bit of money and then
the signage and then there's videos and all that sort
of thing. So you'll find most of the people at
auction their property, they're investing in marketing, and they are
(22:05):
I think they've got the best chance of selling it
because they're getting a big promotion. But what happens is
they'll get forty or fifty buyers through and they get
the feedback on what the buyers are saying. Some of
those people are the most motivated, and some of those,
for the buyers, are the best motivated sellers. But on
the other hand, some of the buyers think, nah stuff,
and I'm not looking at auctions. I just want to
(22:25):
know the price. They cut out a lot of options
for what they could be buying, So you've got to
cover the field, I think. But you can still buy
and sell and transact real estate easy just by putting
a price on it. The buyer knows and I either
think auction it. This is my philosophy. We'll put a
price on it. They don't mark around with anything else.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
What was the question, Bruce on my other point was
I'm hearing about green shoots. I'll be interested to know, because,
as I said, I've watched the market, and from my
point of view, all the drivers of the Auckland in particular,
which is the driver of the economy, the Auckland drivers
of the Auckland housing market have largely dissipated for the
(23:08):
last forty years. The news Auckland housing market has risen
even slightly. Sometimes it's gone nuts. But what's happened now
is very very rare in a real estate market. The
property prices in Auckland and nationally have dropped now normally
they I've never seen them drop before anywhere. They normally
(23:28):
stabilize and slowly incrementally rise. Now, if you want to
look at a case study of a normal housing market,
look at christ Church that has maintained its equilibrium. It
hasn't had radical spike, and it is on a slow
upward trajectory. It's a surreal success story. But anyhow, my
(23:50):
question is the drivers that I have traditionally seen in
the Auckland housing market are no longer there. Well, we
haven't got the supply and demand equation is now tilting
in favor of supplied. We don't have people coming in
that are now frantic to buy a house with the FOMO.
They're sitting and waiting because they see prices stabilizing it
(24:13):
in some cases, dropping rents are dropping people that you know,
the people that are going to buy the properties, the
young families, the trades we're off in Australia.
Speaker 3 (24:22):
Okay, So your point would be, we're not going to
see the levels of growth that we've witnessed in the
past at the moment for quite some time.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
That's going to drive it?
Speaker 2 (24:30):
What's going to drive it?
Speaker 4 (24:31):
Okay?
Speaker 3 (24:32):
Yeah, thanks Bruce, Yeah, Bruce.
Speaker 4 (24:33):
So we're not going to get the real gushing market
that we had in twenty twenty three. And back in
twenty twenty three you could get a mortgage under three percent.
It was like free money almost. We had one hundred
and twenty thousand positive immigration flow and well that we
administer of finances pouring money into the economy. Grant Robson,
(24:54):
who's sort of trying to run a university now. So
these were strange times, and we'd realize that our home
was very important because we've all been locked in it
by you cinder for months and months here in Auckland.
So it just went off. And what happened that was
a false market. It went up so fast and it
has dropped back. Prices dropped back from the peak. We've
(25:17):
been unable to sell a lot of people's homes and
bought in twenty twenty one, twenty twenty two, you know,
when the market was at its height, and then it
dropped back substantially because if you get your interest rate,
they got up to eight percent interest rates, you know,
on that cost of living crisis, so when you've got money,
you think under three percent, then it goes right up
(25:37):
to eight percent. It caused chaos. So we're not going
to see that. But interest rates coming down, that'll help.
Auckland's population only grew by twenty thousand last year and
that's way less so but things will flow. It's a
statistics department tell us the population of Auckland's going to
be turn of two point five million people by twenty
(25:58):
forty six, so people come it's a great place to live.
It'll come again, but probably not as gushing as it
did in twenty twenty three.
Speaker 3 (26:07):
Yeah, hey, thanks Bruce, Thanks for you cal that's to
think about there and get into you. We'd love your call.
So e one hundred and eighty ten eighty. We'll be
back in just a moment. It's twenty eight minutes to
five news talks. It'd be a system beverage with Martin Cooper.
He's a managing director director at Harkwats Cooper and Co.
What sort of method of sale is best for sellers
and what do you prefer as a buyer? What puts
you off John?
Speaker 2 (26:27):
Hello, Yeah, hey guys, I just wanted to share something.
As I used to be a solicitor. Last year I
felt working. I used to work on properties, so I
worked with clients that bought houses through auction and clients
that sold houses through auction. During my time, clients that
(26:51):
sold their houses through auction was because they were looking
for a quick sale. Most of them were like leaving
the country with the math migration to Australia. And when
buyers go for auctions, we as solicitors will ask for
(27:11):
the property package before the auction date, and if they
are running late to advise again going and bidding on
a property, that we didn't review the property documents for them.
So yeah, I was listening to you guys, and you
guys were talking about the conditions on a sale and
(27:33):
purchase agreement through a normal sale and through an auction.
So yeah, we do actually look at We do look
at their property documents if it's going to an auction.
But then if the client is looking at the heart
like a at a house and they don't want to
(27:54):
some of them they just want to tear it apart
and put on apartments or whatever. So yeah, if they're
running late, we just get them to sign a document
saying we did advise them against it and they just
went for it.
Speaker 3 (28:07):
So yeah, matin any a comment on that.
Speaker 4 (28:11):
I think that a good efficient agent should have all
the documents ready going into the option.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
Sorry, sorry to cutting off the agents. It's not the
agent spots, it's the clients. Like they just say, hey,
I just saw this property. Are the optionist tomorrow? And
then we're looking at some legal documents the title. Some
titles will take hours to review, so we just tell them, look,
(28:40):
you came in late.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
Yeah we don't.
Speaker 4 (28:43):
Yeah, but John, your your role is to advise for
worst case scenarios as the solicitor. So you did your job.
You advise the client. But hey, if I listened to
my accountant as much as I love and respect them,
or my lawyer on every transactional business deal, too conservative
and some of the things I bought in hindsight, I'd think, oh,
(29:04):
I wish i'd list, But fortunately I made more successful
choices by having a bit of sort of intuition or
pushing on. I don't want conservative advice because if I
love a house, I want to live there with my family,
I can go for it, get it, enjoy it, and
(29:24):
you know, you get I've had building inspection people they
come in representing the family and they think, oh, I
have a position of responsibility, and they just talk people
out of the deal. And yet I feel you've done
your job as a lawyer by cautioning people. You've given
them warning, but they've got to You've gotta let them
(29:44):
make their own calls, haven't you.
Speaker 5 (29:47):
Sorry extent they will just go through the like some
some some people sometimes that I dealt with were like
freshpone bias.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
So they don't understand the finance and the course the
bank approval process. So yeah, we go on to that
of their invest We just talk about the title and yeah,
limitations that might exist in developing developing the property, so yeah,
(30:18):
there's encumbrans.
Speaker 4 (30:19):
Yeah, like a first time buyer. I think the first
time buyer John is slightly disadvantaged with an option because
they have to get a building report, they have to
get a finance and check it out, and then they
might get out bid and they've spent that money. So
sometimes that can be frustrating for them. They've built three
or four building inspections and they've been outbid at each auction,
So I understand the disadvantage is there?
Speaker 3 (30:41):
That can be pretty demoralizing, actually, can't it?
Speaker 4 (30:43):
Hey?
Speaker 3 (30:44):
Actually, in terms of types of the caller we had
before Bruce and he's talking about the properties he was
selling mostly to investors. Is there do investors? Is there
an argument that if you're different methods of sale, if
you're an investor selling to other investors and you know
that the people who are buying, you know they've worked
out what the price is worth or what's your observations
(31:07):
when it comes to the investment property sort of.
Speaker 4 (31:10):
Market investors and first home buyers that they both compete.
They are the fuel, they're the energy in the market.
They buy lower end value properties, entry level properties, and
you'll get the Tony Alexander does a report and he says,
investor first time buyers are the highest ever they've come
in at twenty eight percent of purchases or investors. Now,
(31:30):
investors are running for the hills a bit. With God
help us if the labor got in, but with the
what's his name hipkins his potential capital gains threat that
are you know, the investors think, well, why would I
invest my money in time? And then I'm going to
be taxed. I'm paying enough tax gst paying enough taxes.
(31:52):
It is, so the investors are running a bit scared
at the moment. We're finding they're not just active but
the first time buyers. But that gives the first time
buyers a chance. Anyway.
Speaker 3 (32:02):
I've always wondered whether, I mean, if you can make
a lot of money, fact they have to pay tax
on it shouldn't necessarily be the disincentive that people say.
I mean, the thing that I think people are worried
about with labor is that that they want a capital
gains tax, but they also will remove deductibility and make
it really really hard for investors in terms of what
other businesses can claim as a legitimate expense. That's the
(32:23):
stuff I think would make people more nervous, isn't it
What labor haven't said what they might do well?
Speaker 4 (32:28):
The insufficient detail on their capital gains was ill prepared
and not anywhere near enough detail. And you know, like
tax people so other people can go and get their
GP visits. I don't even see what the link is.
Just you need a growing economy and taxing people on
their capital gains and I'm dead against that concept. And
(32:50):
death tax, wealth tax, all these things gets out of hand.
Speaker 3 (32:54):
What I mean, it's I guess Australia's got capital gains
and their market still it still seems to go gain
bust asisnet.
Speaker 4 (33:00):
Look, I think people talk about this mass exodus to Australia,
it's not You've still got to live there by groceries
that the taxes are way way higher than we have
here in New Zealand. And I don't think I mean,
I don't think it's going to be one way traffic endlessly.
There's a lot of people got over there and think,
(33:22):
what the hell am I doing here? I love newsic.
Speaker 3 (33:24):
I mentioned this before. I've got to go to break that.
I mentioned this before that We've had somebody I was
dealing with was saying that she'd come over with her
family and they'd brought a property in Auckland, which they
absolutely love. She said, we wouldn't get anything. We wouldn't
have got anything in Sydney for this price, because life
is so expensive over there, except at the moment. The
media monologue at the moment is all Australia's the Golden Land,
(33:46):
you know, the Promised Land. And whether people are coming
in the other direction going thank god I came back,
or thank god she's Australian New Zealand.
Speaker 4 (33:52):
It's the best place to live.
Speaker 3 (33:54):
Good. Oh you Martin. We need to see your name
on the hustings, don't we. Anyway, Hey, we'll be back
in just a minute. It's seventeen minutes to five Newstalks.
He'd b Yes, Newstalk's he'd be. I'm with Martin Cooper,
He's managing director court sch Cooper and co. Talking about
methods of sale and a little bit about where the
market's going at the mon. By the way, somebody's texted correctly.
If labor removed deductibility, rents will go up again, and
that will because it's an upward pressure thing on rents.
(34:16):
But we don't need to get into that now, because
we have discussed that quite a bit. Let's stick to
our knitting today. Andy.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
Hello, Okay, how are you good?
Speaker 3 (34:24):
Thanks?
Speaker 1 (34:24):
Good?
Speaker 3 (34:25):
Good?
Speaker 6 (34:25):
Hey, I won't just briefly want to touch on a
couple of things. It's really interesting. I think Martin mentioned, Hey,
when you're buying a property, great to do your due diligence.
Great to get that advice, you know, from your lawyer.
And just a quick story. Gosh, thirty seven years ago,
my wife and I in Queenstown. We're running around trying
(34:47):
to buy a property. We went to our bank manager,
really nice guy. He said, don't think you can afford it,
don't think it's the best buy. Wouldn't give us the money.
Wasn't a lot of money, ninety six thousand dollars would
you believe for a three bedroom house in Queenstown? And yeah,
I know, right, So I did to my wife. She
(35:08):
was really upset, newly married, you know, young people. I said,
don't we're not giving up. I went to four different banks,
knocking on the doors. Fourth bank said, yeah, no problem, Mandy,
we can do that. There's the money got us into
our first property. We love BacT On to reserve that
property now guys one point three million. Just to put
(35:30):
things in perspective, Yeah, you've got to follow your heart
a little bit, do your own due diligence.
Speaker 4 (35:36):
And yeah you never know, right absolutely, And and what
a bank manager is telling all it's a bit too
tough to pay that price, and he would have cut
you out of that great opportunity.
Speaker 3 (35:47):
Yeah, hey, thanks for you calling mate, Penny.
Speaker 7 (35:49):
Hello, Hi, just a couple of thanks from my pictures
over the years of fine, whether it be.
Speaker 2 (35:57):
Chill.
Speaker 7 (35:58):
Firstly, the genders, you've always got to set your walk
away right so you don't need to be hid by that.
You just go at my price and I'm not going
to be disappointed if I don't get it. And the
other thing is I never buy a home. About going
to the particular city council's archives and pay fifty or
fifty dollars to get file on that house that you
(36:22):
can tell of anything's being changed without permit. You can
ask for the permit because the downside of a limb.
Although it has a lot of respect for it, it
is only ever what the council knows, and a lot
of the time the council has got documented or knows
what has happened on that property. So then you can
(36:43):
be caught out a limbits, not everything. So yeah, just
go to the councilor pives.
Speaker 4 (36:48):
And that's good advice to good advice, Penny. But I
don't want you as a buyer at my optional tender
that much because you've put a walk away pricing. I'm
just going to be saying, if you love it, just
go a little bit more.
Speaker 7 (37:06):
Yeah, I guess it depends on whether you're going to
live in it. If it's you're at home, you're right,
it might be too much, it's just too soon. But
if it's an investment and you're trying to get a return,
or you're venting it, or it's in an area where
you're topping out, then you do you know. And the
same thing. I've been in a realistate agent years ago
and I've said to people, if I send to you
(37:29):
and see you're lost out by five thousand dollars, would
you be upset?
Speaker 6 (37:32):
And if you are.
Speaker 7 (37:33):
Then you need to reason forder your price. You've got
to decide.
Speaker 3 (37:37):
Yeah, and it's just.
Speaker 7 (37:38):
Really about what top end is for whatever reasons why
they mind.
Speaker 4 (37:42):
Yeah, we might get you back into the sales team, Penny.
But I also do find that it's interesting someone misses
out an auction property. They're very disappointed because they are
their heart set on it. But then you'll see them
two or three months later they go, oh my god,
thank god I missed out on that one. I found
one I like better.
Speaker 3 (37:59):
You know that springs around about now.
Speaker 7 (38:01):
Yeah, but that's why you have a walk away prior
to that, because B is often better. Yeah, but it
really is great to get those council archive files on
a home.
Speaker 3 (38:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (38:12):
Oh good around permits because you know what what might
have been okay in the past.
Speaker 1 (38:17):
Yeah, I've got it's terribly stuck.
Speaker 7 (38:20):
The stuff that they didn't even know about the limited
and say the councilors can yeah, didn't come up and
they really got caught quarter of a million dollars.
Speaker 4 (38:32):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (38:32):
Yeah, Okay, Hey, thanks for that, Penn. I really appreciate
your call. We'll be back in just a moment with
the Property of the Week is next. This is news
talk because they'd be nine minutes to five news talks.
They'd be with, oh, sorry, what am I going to say?
I'm speaking too quick because guess what.
Speaker 1 (38:48):
The one roofed property of the week on the Weekend Collective.
Speaker 3 (38:53):
And so I've worked out that my producer has one
of those sideway glancers which speaks volumes. It's like what
she just looks at me, like what are you doing? Anyway? Hey?
The one roof property of the week is. It's in Wangananui.
It's built in nineteen thirty four, so it's almost ninety
years old. It's a gracious ninety year old residence, well
(39:15):
ready to welcome its next family, one who are love
and cherish everything this remarkable home has to offer. It's
a two story home, framed by mature trees, manicured hedges.
It's got lovely am ambiance, and yet it's got all
the comforts of modern living. Now, actually, I must say
it is just a beautiful old old home. I was
(39:36):
going to get Martin to give us the summary of it,
but it is quickly if you want to google it.
It's four bedrooms, two bathrooms, one car garage which is
slightly a bit of an under and that's a bit
of a it's a bit of a downer. It is
four Kent Roads, St John's Hill and a Wangannui and
it's estimated to go quite an expensive house for nine
(39:58):
hundred thousand. What do you make of it?
Speaker 4 (39:59):
Martin?
Speaker 3 (40:00):
I love the style of it.
Speaker 4 (40:02):
In fact, I went to Wangannui years ago. It was
an art and culture place, really stylish place.
Speaker 1 (40:08):
In fact, I.
Speaker 4 (40:08):
Remember meeting you years ago. You were singing, and now
I find you here in the radio station. Do you
I just wonder you're into art and culture.
Speaker 3 (40:17):
Used to so I'm still singing there. I've got a
Christmas concert next weekend.
Speaker 4 (40:21):
I haven't heard about.
Speaker 3 (40:24):
We should stick to the proper of the week, but
I actually do because it's going to be I think
she might be a bigger drawcat. Actual want doing a
Christmas concert. The Holy Trinity with Erica Stanford is the
MC for it, but it's with north Shaw Brass and
I loved. I love a good Christmas concert, so yeah, good.
Speaker 4 (40:40):
Well now Erica Stanford one incredible Minister of Education and Immigration.
Feature house that one going is a beautiful place. So
the other thing I like about it is the safety,
the community stuff that goes on there. But that house
is about nine hundred thousand dollars affordability sell up in Auckland.
(41:01):
Get down there and live your best life. It is
a luxury home. When you go and have a look
on one roof, look online it is stunning in St
John's hill Top suburb in Wanganui.
Speaker 3 (41:13):
So that's the property of the week. Go and check
it out on one roof and Martin, Hey, great to
see you mate, have ay marry Chris come along to
the concert next Saturday.
Speaker 4 (41:21):
Well, what have you got your lineup of songs? What
have you got?
Speaker 3 (41:24):
It'll be Christmas stuff anyway, I'm doing an album.
Speaker 1 (41:29):
For more from the Weekend Collective.
Speaker 3 (41:30):
Listen live to news talks he'd be weekends from three
pm or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks b.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Dollar.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
Yes, welcome and welcome back to the Weekend Collective. I'm
Tim Beverage and we want your calls now on one
hundred eighty t and eighty or text on nine two,
nine to two, and this is the one roof radio
show and we're going to kick it off with having
a chat about you know, the markets, the time of
year when you sort of feel you even in fact,
even if you're not buying or selling, you wander past
(00:55):
property and you see there's an open home. You think, oh,
just popping, popping and check the furnishings and the drapes.
See what they're doing these days, so what the latest is.
But it does sort of open your mind up whether
you may be you might even if it's not this
year or next year, you might get into the market again.
There are more people, as we know, first home buyers
who are getting into the market. But the question we're
going to dig into is, you know, obviously it's one
(01:18):
of the most important decisions a homeowner or a buyer
can make. But a homeowner when you are putting your
property on the market, is choosing the method of sale. Now,
there was a time on the One Roof radio show
where it was when you know, when the market was
going gangbust, is it was auction auction, auction, auction, and
it's a great way of finding the price and all
that sort of thing. And I was never totally convinced
by that by the auctioneers who are arguing that. But
(01:40):
anyway that you've got auctions, you've got asking price, price
by negotiation. My least favorite is tender. But there are
properties sometimes where tender may actually be the goods. But
which method there are a couple of things. What method's
going to get you the price you want when you
want it, I guess because an auction at least that's
you know, hopefully that's signed, sealed and delivered when people
(02:02):
make a successful bit. Although subjects to try active to buyers.
If you are in the market to buy a house,
are there methods of sale which would instantly turn you off?
You go, well, I'm not interested because you just don't
like whether it be price by negotiation or whether you
don't like auction. I know quite a few people who
never look at a property that's going for tender, and
(02:24):
what gives sellers the best chance to get in the
highest possible price. So anyway, we want your calls on
this eight hundred and eighty ten eighty what methy end?
Did you regret using it? Or you know what you
got in the market? You did the deal and then
the end. Fine, you're quite happy anyway to answer these questions,
we'll discuss them. I'm not sure if he wants to
give definitive answers on this bit. Have some strong opinions.
(02:45):
I'd imagine he is se man not wrong expression. He's
managing director at Harcourts, Cooper and Co. And he's Martin
Cooper of the title, I guess, and he's with us. Now,
Good day, Martin Haw, you going.
Speaker 4 (03:00):
Great, you're sitting here, What a great day, Aucklet's put
on another record breaking for November. The heat out there
so and the property market's heating up as well, which
is good. Not before time.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
Yeah. Actually, everyone loves their weekends. I guess real estate
agents joined they their weekends are different really because I
guess if you're a real estate agent, that's one thing
you give up as the weekends, because that's when your
market's out there with the time to have a look
isn't it.
Speaker 4 (03:29):
Oh yes, I did maybe thirteen years as a salesperson.
Now I lead my team, so I'm not as involved
in the actual physicality of running open homes and things.
But I do remember I used to see my kids
for brunch or something in the morning and to have
a bit of time. But back then I always were
a suit too. It's a a bit more casual now
as we live in dress, et cetera. But on Saturdays
(03:52):
and Sundays, after thirteen years of open homes, I remember
looking at people and jandles and T shirts and thinking
you lucky, lucky bugger. You know, I thought so and
so so and so. Yeah, yeah, because you've got a
bit of resentment. But the only thing was the return
for the commitment. You're at the coal face, that's when
(04:14):
you're doing the business. So when you were getting good remuneration,
you know, getting ahead, you thought, well, I can afford
to book a holiday or something. So everyone has to
be on the bus doing doing the work at some stage.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
But how big, I mean, how important a decision is
it on the method of sale these days, because and
there are trends according to what the market's doing. There
was a time when the market was gangbuster. Is that
just about everything was auction because people wanted to capitalize
on the friends of the auction room and you know,
(04:47):
looking at other buyers across the room and realizing you've
got to outbid them. What's your take on the method
of sale for Martin Cooper.
Speaker 4 (04:57):
Well, I'm an absolutely full on auction believer. But that
would because I've did over four hundred auction campaigns myself
as the agent, you know, right through the process from
start to finish, right until we got the property sold.
And I also called over two thousand residential property auctions,
(05:17):
and I can look you straight in the eye and
say I saw the magic out there. Not every time,
but you know, you gather the people up on the
front lawn of the property, and if you've had a
good campaign and they want it, it was enjoyable to
see them fighting for it, and some great prices were achieved.
But the other thing, as a buyer, I love going
and buying it an auction because I can face my
(05:40):
competition and I only need to be one thousand dollars
or two above them, So I just keep going until
I either run out of money or the buyers that
I'm trying to beat run out of money. And what
I find is it's also reassuring. If you go to
an auction that's three or four other people bidding, that
also gives me confidence that other people like what I like,
(06:01):
so I'd always be an option.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
I mean, the keep going thing is what some buyers
would like not to do, and they'd like to put
their bit in there and find out that they don't
have to keep going, you know what I mean.
Speaker 4 (06:11):
It's like, oh yeah, well look, look, it's the universal thing.
I've dealt with thousands of buyers and sellers, and the
two things the buyer wants to buy it as cheap
as possible and the seller wants to get as much
as possible. And you know, new buyers and they come
to the market, their biggest fear is am I going
to pay too much?
Speaker 3 (06:31):
Is that?
Speaker 4 (06:31):
So generally they won't buy the first property that you
show them, even if it's a perfect match. They will
need the reassurance of a real Buyers generally looked at
about twelve properties in the area and the market they
want to buy, and they suss out, they get to
know value, and then that gives them confidence to commit.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
How what proportion of the properties that went to auction
auction auction neither neither either either Potato Potato? What percentage
of the sell under the hammer? If you would look,
would you have an accurate oh yeah, or would you
have a romantic recollection of When Martin Cooper was the auctioneer,
(07:11):
we sold them all under the hangar bang sold.
Speaker 4 (07:14):
My boss is a great guy. Don kindly. When I
first started down in Dunedin, he said, Martin, I was
only back way back in nineteen eighty seven. Down there,
he said, I want you to do auctions. You know
that was I start in eighty three. But about eighty
seven he said, I want you to do these auctions,
and I thought, there's no.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
Way I want to be an auction yere old were you?
Speaker 4 (07:33):
Oh? I started real estate and I pested him for
a job when I was twenty one, Like I was young. Look,
this is another thing, you know, I spent ten years
being the youngest person in the office. Now we're fast
forward some forty years. I'm spending ten years being Oh.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
Well it's the oldest, it's ying and yang. Yeah. Yeah,
another experience.
Speaker 4 (07:54):
I was just sorry. I was getting nostalgic about my age.
But the question was at what percentage A percentage sold
under the sold under the hammer. Well, okay, as a
startup guy, I remember calling the first eleven auctions. My
boss was watching me so in case I made a mistake.
But no one bid, And then was it.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
Relief to you?
Speaker 4 (08:17):
No? No, no, I remember when the first person bid,
because you then you're able to just put bids in.
It was strange. You'd look at the light fitting if
you're inside, or the couch and all these there's no
one bidding, but you were putting bids in. You were
coached and told to put in. They weren't called vendor
bids then they were called dummy bids. You just put
a bid in to create some energy. So would you.
Speaker 3 (08:37):
Actually pretend you'd seen someone hold the hand? Okay, yes,
we have one hundred and fifty thousand.
Speaker 4 (08:42):
The auction is fantastic. Now that Real Estate Institute board
in proper rules code of contact, you if you put
a bid in on behalf of a vendor.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
You have to say I have it, we're going with
it on behalf.
Speaker 4 (08:55):
Of the vendor. It's very very clear that it's not
a live bidder that you're competing with it's just telling
the market this is a price that the vendor will
not sell for. You have to be above. This gives
them a hind or guideline. But back in the olden days,
last century, they didn't have any of these protocols, so
you'd be looking at the hedge and that would there
be a bird flight as another business like sorry about
(09:18):
that the consumers back in those days. But after eleven
auctions and no one had actually done a physical bid,
a fellow was leaning against the hedge and he winked
at me, which indicated movement, and that was his way
of bidding. And I almost had to stop the auction
and say, what do I do?
Speaker 3 (09:36):
Someone's bid, someone's winked at me. Do they want to
have dinner with me?
Speaker 2 (09:39):
Or no?
Speaker 4 (09:41):
No, no, no, they was serious. But it was a good
looking man. But no, they was serious. Actually that is.
Speaker 3 (09:50):
We should touch on that as well. Methods a But
to me, I would think that's obviously an experienced bidder
because they are quite confident in just going that's enough
for me, whereas most people will be like wanting to
do some large gesture for their bid, wouldn't they.
Speaker 4 (10:04):
He just wanted to be subtle. I just got a
great Stephen Bock or Richard Bock. I get confused the
cricketer for New Zealand, the two brothers. But Stephen last century,
but a great cricketer. He came to bidding an auction
once and he had a bit of profile in the community.
I remember he didn't want to identify that he was interested,
(10:28):
so he brought along holiday disguises, great sense of humor.
I'm the auctioneer, and he put on a wee bella clava,
and a pair of big biggle's nose and glasses. Each
time he bid. It was good. He didn't want people
to know who was bidding, so he he's sure going
to attract He accentuated it further than he needed to.
But look for the listeners out there. I can tell
(10:50):
you a whole lot of stories that I find fascinating.
One day, I'm calling an auction, no action, there's nothing happening.
A guy leans into the hedge and disturbs it. Disturbs
a beehive. The swarm of bee's come out and everyone's
waving around around, and I thought, man, there's a lot
of taking.
Speaker 3 (11:11):
Went up proquably.
Speaker 4 (11:15):
Yeah, so percentage of numbers of auction that sell. I
can give you an example, when it was gushing in
twenty twenty three, we were doing about ninety two percent
was out for that year. Properties it's sold under the hammer.
You know the market there was fomo fear of missing out,
so the buyers would bid and the sellers were getting
way beyond what they wanted, so that was great. It
(11:36):
was just real estate heaven days. Then through the recession
times when we at the cost of living crisis, the
higher interest rates, clearance rates, and auctions under the hammer
got down to about thirty percent, three three out of
ten would sell at the moment. Last week in our
rooms we had thirty eight actions, so that was reasonable
number and we're over well over twenty of those sold
(11:59):
now about nineteen sold under the hammer and a couple
of being negotiated afterwards, so we're up to about six
sixty sales rate under the hammer.
Speaker 3 (12:09):
Have we seen Okay? And by the way, if you
just joined us, we're talking with Martin Kopervih he's from Harkwart's,
Cooper and co. About choosing the method of sale, whether
it be price by negotiation, and we've been we're obviously
hitting the auction topic fairly hard as well. But what
have you sold? What method of sale have you used,
(12:29):
or what's your view and what's the best. So does
that mean that if I'm a client of Hardwart's, Cooper
and Co. Then I'm probably going to be selling an
auction because you guys love it. Or do we see
a change in type of selling because people want to
make their price as accessible. They just want to sell
because you know, the market hasn't market had been has been?
(12:53):
You know soft. I love the euphemisms around property. A
it's soft at the moment, which sounds almost appealing. It's
nice and.
Speaker 4 (13:00):
Soft, it's cozy. See, you can choose just an agent
will try and influence you. You know, when they go through,
they'll discuss advertising it with a set price, by negotiation,
a deadline sale, a tender, an option. There's many different methods.
Speaker 3 (13:20):
I want to need to write those down because you
might drill into them. So there's deadline, there's the price,
stated price.
Speaker 4 (13:26):
Isn't it it's just advertised price, which is.
Speaker 3 (13:30):
I mean that's generally you saying that this is the
most anyone will pay for the property, because no one's
going to suddenly offer more, really, are they? Unless you
suddenly have competing, well competing buyers.
Speaker 4 (13:41):
Occasionally you'll get people off of more because you get
two inspections or three and they both three of them
want it so effectively, then you'd say to yourself, well,
why didn't we do an auction, you know, because it's
a popular property. But so sometimes you'll get over an
asking price, but usually ninety percent of the time, the
asking price is the price that all buyers will try
(14:01):
and buy it at a lower price. How can they
negotiate it down?
Speaker 3 (14:07):
To me, look, I'm not expecting property obviously, having only
bought one house and that's one I'm in. Deadlines seem
to me sort of are they sort of an auction
When you're not having an auction, you're trying to get
a deadline sale Like this is when you know.
Speaker 4 (14:22):
Well, some agents will say, look, that exposes you to
the whole market because an auction you have to be unconditional.
You know, you have to have your money sorted and
you have to have your building inspection sorted, everything sorted.
So for the seller, that's real clarity. You know, when
you sell under the hammer, your deal has done, the
deposits paid, and the property should settle whereas a deadline
(14:44):
sale that opens it up. I'd like to buy your house,
but I've got a house. I've got a house to sell,
or i'd like to I need subjective finance, or I've
got to get engineers reports, and so you're not getting
complete clarity. But the benefit of a deadline sale is
you promote it and say we're this up for three
(15:06):
weeks of activity and interest, and on that date the
owner will be open to accept the best offer. So
I like a deadline sale from the point of view.
It has a fixed sale date. But I figure, if
you're going to go to all that trouble for the
sealer and all the time and effort that's involved, do
the auction. Because we're dealing, that's the first stage. We
(15:26):
deal with the unconditional best, most powerful buyers in the market.
Then if we don't sell at auction, then we go
like the conditional offers are open, then they can come in. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
Remember when I studied law, one of the popular ways
of bidding of making an offer for a property which
was subject to a subject to approval by the purchase's solicitor,
which was basically seen as an as an out and
there was a whole lot of litigation around whether it
meant that they had you know, whether you could just
(15:58):
pull out of the deal because your solicity said no,
it's a bad idea. But those were back in the
days where of course, you know, it was private treaty
and there was a generally listed price.
Speaker 4 (16:10):
Yeah, it still happens today. People can use that clause,
is it?
Speaker 3 (16:14):
I mean the popularity of auctions, is it? Because you
can do a lot of time wasting with people who
are subject to the sale of my house, subject to
the sale of this, or subject to finance. That do
how many of those sorts of deals that end up
coming off?
Speaker 4 (16:28):
Oh yeah, we got the fall down rate is substantial.
You know, if you've got three or four clauses, I
want subject to finance, subject of valuation, which was similar
to finance, subject to a building report, subject to an
engineers report, subject to is it got? What do you
call that other stuff that I was talking about, the
toxic stuff in the house, the asbestos, all that one.
(16:51):
You know, you can put all sorts of conditions in
a contract, then you can tick them off one by one.
Speaker 3 (16:56):
So what is okay? So if people do have those concerns,
say for an instance, in an auction, Yeah, how does
that all play out with regards to you know, engineering
reports and all that sort of stuff, because that's one
of the you know, you've got a bit, you're taking
it as it is.
Speaker 4 (17:12):
Well, our team expert. I feel now I've got your
house for sale. So we're going to get the LIMB report,
go through everything on it. Has it got the code
of compliance? Is everything sorted? Have it right the way through,
look at every detail of the property, and we iron
out all the bugs on the property, so it's a
clean property. Because if you go to the market and
(17:34):
it's got a leaky issue and you haven't got a
full report or you haven't fixed it, it's pointless really
if you've got a faulty property unless you say, hey,
as is whereas we got troubles here, come in and
bid for it and the best person can fix it up.
You know that's fine. But if you're trying to get
the best price you can, you don't want to go
(17:54):
to the market with a problematic property. You want to
tidy that up before and you do get agents that
might have a commissioned breath on that they want to sale,
say no, come now, do it now, do it now?
But I've got guys now been through the hoops of
going to the property because the vendor once it's sold,
and not having it prepared fit for market. But like
(18:14):
washing your car, getting a warrant of fitness, fixing the
brakes on your car before you're selling that, fix your
homerup before you go to market.
Speaker 3 (18:20):
Now, okay, what sort of method of sale do you prefer?
And if you're a buyer, what sort of preferred method
of sale do you prefer to engage with as a
buyer or is it all about the house? Andy ten
eighty Bruce today.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
Yeah, gooda, I'm youah, fascinating, fascinating talk. I'm listening to
Martin my preferred Well, firstly, I've been involved with the
property in Auckland and New Zealand for probably about forty
five years, and I've watched the property market in Auckland
in particular and with some pretty worrying signs which I
just like to discuss perhaps later on. But from my perspective,
(18:58):
we're non buying. In telling I probably would have just
trying to work out while I was waiting, I probably
have bought and sold learned about forty how I've got
none left now I've got some in Australia. But what
I find that the principal thing when I'm buying and
selling is a clean contract. You have your conditions on it.
(19:19):
But with all due respect from my experience, options are
are a real estate industry construct. All due respect here,
but they're a marketing plan which puts a real estate agent,
I believe, probably on an equal par with the vendor,
which is fair enough. But when you're doing a lot,
(19:41):
when you're doing buying and selling as a buyer, and
you know I'm being a cash buyer, well, of course
that's probably different because I've always been that way. But
when you see a house to sail, if you see
a price, then you're keen. You get really keen. You
want to have a look at it. If you know
(20:01):
the market and you say, okay, that's the price, you
know what you're looking at, if you want to building
inspection to get that, and then you do it that way.
The other business, from my perspective, you know, when you're
doing a lot of buying and selling is options tenders
the messy. You know, they're sort of well off, they're
good for the company, they get exposure, they get people
(20:23):
signing in, and as they view the house, you got
the contacts, and it's a sort of a cycle that
goes on. But coming back to my construct, it's a
real estate invention that I've found is cumbersome and it
really doesn't work in my favor. And I don't like.
Speaker 3 (20:42):
How did how did you sell your houses? You had forty?
How did you get rid of yours?
Speaker 5 (20:49):
All?
Speaker 1 (20:49):
By lifting as a price? Okay, just lifting as a price.
And what I did is I was able to gear
the price with the rental return. So I think I
was mainly selling to investors. Back in the day you
could get a ten we were for years, we were
getting ten percent return. We were buying sixty five grand
(21:10):
and reading them for one system. But those were the
good old days.
Speaker 3 (21:14):
But I just like, I just like, I'll just try
it to Martin so we can have the conversation here.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
I got another question after that.
Speaker 4 (21:21):
Yeah yeah, sure, okay, yeah sure, yeah, okay, Well, no, bruth, Look,
we let the seller choose if they if they wanted
to determine a price, I would be happy to represent
the seller. I also, from a buyer's point of view,
see if you get a vendor that decides to go
into an auction, and they're generally paying for their marketing.
(21:43):
You know, they're putting a substantial budget. Some of our
budgets seven or eight grand to buy a feature property
on trade me and obviously on one roof, which is
a good way to promote your property and other portals.
You've got to spend a bit of money and then
the signage and then there's videos and all that sort
of thing. So you'll find most of the people at
auction their property, they're investing in marketing, and they are
(22:05):
I think they've got the best chance of selling it
because they're getting a big promotion. But what happens is
they'll get forty or fifty buyers through and they get
the feedback on what the buyers are saying. Some of
those people are the most motivated, and some of those,
for the buyers, are the best motivated sellers. But on
the other hand, some of the buyers think, nah stuff,
and I'm not looking at auctions. I just want to
(22:25):
know the price. They cut out a lot of options
for what they could be buying, So you've got to
cover the field, I think. But you can still buy
and sell and transact real estate easy just by putting
a price on it. The buyer knows and I either
think auction it. This is my philosophy. We'll put a
price on it. They don't mark around with anything else.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
What was the question, Bruce on my other point was
I'm hearing about green shoots. I'll be interested to know, because,
as I said, I've watched the market, and from my
point of view, all the drivers of the Auckland in particular,
which is the driver of the economy, the Auckland drivers
of the Auckland housing market have largely dissipated for the
(23:08):
last forty years. The news Auckland housing market has risen
even slightly. Sometimes it's gone nuts. But what's happened now
is very very rare in a real estate market. The
property prices in Auckland and nationally have dropped now normally
they I've never seen them drop before anywhere. They normally
(23:28):
stabilize and slowly incrementally rise. Now, if you want to
look at a case study of a normal housing market,
look at christ Church that has maintained its equilibrium. It
hasn't had radical spike, and it is on a slow
upward trajectory. It's a surreal success story. But anyhow, my
(23:50):
question is the drivers that I have traditionally seen in
the Auckland housing market are no longer there. Well, we
haven't got the supply and demand equation is now tilting
in favor of supplied. We don't have people coming in
that are now frantic to buy a house with the FOMO.
They're sitting and waiting because they see prices stabilizing it
(24:13):
in some cases, dropping rents are dropping people that you know,
the people that are going to buy the properties, the
young families, the trades we're off in Australia.
Speaker 3 (24:22):
Okay, So your point would be, we're not going to
see the levels of growth that we've witnessed in the
past at the moment for quite some time.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
That's going to drive it?
Speaker 2 (24:30):
What's going to drive it?
Speaker 4 (24:31):
Okay?
Speaker 3 (24:32):
Yeah, thanks Bruce, Yeah, Bruce.
Speaker 4 (24:33):
So we're not going to get the real gushing market
that we had in twenty twenty three. And back in
twenty twenty three you could get a mortgage under three percent.
It was like free money almost. We had one hundred
and twenty thousand positive immigration flow and well that we
administer of finances pouring money into the economy. Grant Robson,
(24:54):
who's sort of trying to run a university now. So
these were strange times, and we'd realize that our home
was very important because we've all been locked in it
by you cinder for months and months here in Auckland.
So it just went off. And what happened that was
a false market. It went up so fast and it
has dropped back. Prices dropped back from the peak. We've
(25:17):
been unable to sell a lot of people's homes and
bought in twenty twenty one, twenty twenty two, you know,
when the market was at its height, and then it
dropped back substantially because if you get your interest rate,
they got up to eight percent interest rates, you know,
on that cost of living crisis, so when you've got money,
you think under three percent, then it goes right up
(25:37):
to eight percent. It caused chaos. So we're not going
to see that. But interest rates coming down, that'll help.
Auckland's population only grew by twenty thousand last year and
that's way less so but things will flow. It's a
statistics department tell us the population of Auckland's going to
be turn of two point five million people by twenty
(25:58):
forty six, so people come it's a great place to live.
It'll come again, but probably not as gushing as it
did in twenty twenty three.
Speaker 3 (26:07):
Yeah, hey, thanks Bruce, Thanks for you cal that's to
think about there and get into you. We'd love your call.
So e one hundred and eighty ten eighty. We'll be
back in just a moment. It's twenty eight minutes to
five news talks. It'd be a system beverage with Martin Cooper.
He's a managing director director at Harkwats Cooper and Co.
What sort of method of sale is best for sellers
and what do you prefer as a buyer? What puts
you off John?
Speaker 2 (26:27):
Hello, Yeah, hey guys, I just wanted to share something.
As I used to be a solicitor. Last year I
felt working. I used to work on properties, so I
worked with clients that bought houses through auction and clients
that sold houses through auction. During my time, clients that
(26:51):
sold their houses through auction was because they were looking
for a quick sale. Most of them were like leaving
the country with the math migration to Australia. And when
buyers go for auctions, we as solicitors will ask for
(27:11):
the property package before the auction date, and if they
are running late to advise again going and bidding on
a property, that we didn't review the property documents for them.
So yeah, I was listening to you guys, and you
guys were talking about the conditions on a sale and
(27:33):
purchase agreement through a normal sale and through an auction.
So yeah, we do actually look at We do look
at their property documents if it's going to an auction.
But then if the client is looking at the heart
like a at a house and they don't want to
(27:54):
some of them they just want to tear it apart
and put on apartments or whatever. So yeah, if they're
running late, we just get them to sign a document
saying we did advise them against it and they just
went for it.
Speaker 3 (28:07):
So yeah, matin any a comment on that.
Speaker 4 (28:11):
I think that a good efficient agent should have all
the documents ready going into the option.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
Sorry, sorry to cutting off the agents. It's not the
agent spots, it's the clients. Like they just say, hey,
I just saw this property. Are the optionist tomorrow? And
then we're looking at some legal documents the title. Some
titles will take hours to review, so we just tell them, look,
(28:40):
you came in late.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
Yeah we don't.
Speaker 4 (28:43):
Yeah, but John, your your role is to advise for
worst case scenarios as the solicitor. So you did your job.
You advise the client. But hey, if I listened to
my accountant as much as I love and respect them,
or my lawyer on every transactional business deal, too conservative
and some of the things I bought in hindsight, I'd think, oh,
(29:04):
I wish i'd list, But fortunately I made more successful
choices by having a bit of sort of intuition or
pushing on. I don't want conservative advice because if I
love a house, I want to live there with my family,
I can go for it, get it, enjoy it, and
(29:24):
you know, you get I've had building inspection people they
come in representing the family and they think, oh, I
have a position of responsibility, and they just talk people
out of the deal. And yet I feel you've done
your job as a lawyer by cautioning people. You've given
them warning, but they've got to You've gotta let them
(29:44):
make their own calls, haven't you.
Speaker 5 (29:47):
Sorry extent they will just go through the like some
some some people sometimes that I dealt with were like
freshpone bias.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
So they don't understand the finance and the course the
bank approval process. So yeah, we go on to that
of their invest We just talk about the title and yeah,
limitations that might exist in developing developing the property, so yeah,
(30:18):
there's encumbrans.
Speaker 4 (30:19):
Yeah, like a first time buyer. I think the first
time buyer John is slightly disadvantaged with an option because
they have to get a building report, they have to
get a finance and check it out, and then they
might get out bid and they've spent that money. So
sometimes that can be frustrating for them. They've built three
or four building inspections and they've been outbid at each auction,
So I understand the disadvantage is there?
Speaker 3 (30:41):
That can be pretty demoralizing, actually, can't it?
Speaker 4 (30:43):
Hey?
Speaker 3 (30:44):
Actually, in terms of types of the caller we had
before Bruce and he's talking about the properties he was
selling mostly to investors. Is there do investors? Is there
an argument that if you're different methods of sale, if
you're an investor selling to other investors and you know
that the people who are buying, you know they've worked
out what the price is worth or what's your observations
(31:07):
when it comes to the investment property sort of.
Speaker 4 (31:10):
Market investors and first home buyers that they both compete.
They are the fuel, they're the energy in the market.
They buy lower end value properties, entry level properties, and
you'll get the Tony Alexander does a report and he says,
investor first time buyers are the highest ever they've come
in at twenty eight percent of purchases or investors. Now,
(31:30):
investors are running for the hills a bit. With God
help us if the labor got in, but with the
what's his name hipkins his potential capital gains threat that
are you know, the investors think, well, why would I
invest my money in time? And then I'm going to
be taxed. I'm paying enough tax gst paying enough taxes.
(31:52):
It is, so the investors are running a bit scared
at the moment. We're finding they're not just active but
the first time buyers. But that gives the first time
buyers a chance. Anyway.
Speaker 3 (32:02):
I've always wondered whether, I mean, if you can make
a lot of money, fact they have to pay tax
on it shouldn't necessarily be the disincentive that people say.
I mean, the thing that I think people are worried
about with labor is that that they want a capital
gains tax, but they also will remove deductibility and make
it really really hard for investors in terms of what
other businesses can claim as a legitimate expense. That's the
(32:23):
stuff I think would make people more nervous, isn't it
What labor haven't said what they might do well?
Speaker 4 (32:28):
The insufficient detail on their capital gains was ill prepared
and not anywhere near enough detail. And you know, like
tax people so other people can go and get their
GP visits. I don't even see what the link is.
Just you need a growing economy and taxing people on
their capital gains and I'm dead against that concept. And
(32:50):
death tax, wealth tax, all these things gets out of hand.
Speaker 3 (32:54):
What I mean, it's I guess Australia's got capital gains
and their market still it still seems to go gain
bust asisnet.
Speaker 4 (33:00):
Look, I think people talk about this mass exodus to Australia,
it's not You've still got to live there by groceries
that the taxes are way way higher than we have
here in New Zealand. And I don't think I mean,
I don't think it's going to be one way traffic endlessly.
There's a lot of people got over there and think,
(33:22):
what the hell am I doing here? I love newsic.
Speaker 3 (33:24):
I mentioned this before. I've got to go to break that.
I mentioned this before that We've had somebody I was
dealing with was saying that she'd come over with her
family and they'd brought a property in Auckland, which they
absolutely love. She said, we wouldn't get anything. We wouldn't
have got anything in Sydney for this price, because life
is so expensive over there, except at the moment. The
media monologue at the moment is all Australia's the Golden Land,
(33:46):
you know, the Promised Land. And whether people are coming
in the other direction going thank god I came back,
or thank god she's Australian New Zealand.
Speaker 4 (33:52):
It's the best place to live.
Speaker 3 (33:54):
Good. Oh you Martin. We need to see your name
on the hustings, don't we. Anyway, Hey, we'll be back
in just a minute. It's seventeen minutes to five Newstalks.
He'd b Yes, Newstalk's he'd be. I'm with Martin Cooper,
He's managing director court sch Cooper and co. Talking about
methods of sale and a little bit about where the
market's going at the mon. By the way, somebody's texted correctly.
If labor removed deductibility, rents will go up again, and
that will because it's an upward pressure thing on rents.
(34:16):
But we don't need to get into that now, because
we have discussed that quite a bit. Let's stick to
our knitting today. Andy.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
Hello, Okay, how are you good?
Speaker 3 (34:24):
Thanks?
Speaker 1 (34:24):
Good?
Speaker 3 (34:25):
Good?
Speaker 6 (34:25):
Hey, I won't just briefly want to touch on a
couple of things. It's really interesting. I think Martin mentioned, Hey,
when you're buying a property, great to do your due diligence.
Great to get that advice, you know, from your lawyer.
And just a quick story. Gosh, thirty seven years ago,
my wife and I in Queenstown. We're running around trying
(34:47):
to buy a property. We went to our bank manager,
really nice guy. He said, don't think you can afford it,
don't think it's the best buy. Wouldn't give us the money.
Wasn't a lot of money, ninety six thousand dollars would
you believe for a three bedroom house in Queenstown? And yeah,
I know, right, So I did to my wife. She
(35:08):
was really upset, newly married, you know, young people. I said,
don't we're not giving up. I went to four different banks,
knocking on the doors. Fourth bank said, yeah, no problem, Mandy,
we can do that. There's the money got us into
our first property. We love BacT On to reserve that
property now guys one point three million. Just to put
(35:30):
things in perspective, Yeah, you've got to follow your heart
a little bit, do your own due diligence.
Speaker 4 (35:36):
And yeah you never know, right absolutely, And and what
a bank manager is telling all it's a bit too
tough to pay that price, and he would have cut
you out of that great opportunity.
Speaker 3 (35:47):
Yeah, hey, thanks for you calling mate, Penny.
Speaker 7 (35:49):
Hello, Hi, just a couple of thanks from my pictures
over the years of fine, whether it be.
Speaker 2 (35:57):
Chill.
Speaker 7 (35:58):
Firstly, the genders, you've always got to set your walk
away right so you don't need to be hid by that.
You just go at my price and I'm not going
to be disappointed if I don't get it. And the
other thing is I never buy a home. About going
to the particular city council's archives and pay fifty or
fifty dollars to get file on that house that you
(36:22):
can tell of anything's being changed without permit. You can
ask for the permit because the downside of a limb.
Although it has a lot of respect for it, it
is only ever what the council knows, and a lot
of the time the council has got documented or knows
what has happened on that property. So then you can
(36:43):
be caught out a limbits, not everything. So yeah, just
go to the councilor pives.
Speaker 4 (36:48):
And that's good advice to good advice, Penny. But I
don't want you as a buyer at my optional tender
that much because you've put a walk away pricing. I'm
just going to be saying, if you love it, just
go a little bit more.
Speaker 7 (37:06):
Yeah, I guess it depends on whether you're going to
live in it. If it's you're at home, you're right,
it might be too much, it's just too soon. But
if it's an investment and you're trying to get a return,
or you're venting it, or it's in an area where
you're topping out, then you do you know. And the
same thing. I've been in a realistate agent years ago
and I've said to people, if I send to you
(37:29):
and see you're lost out by five thousand dollars, would
you be upset?
Speaker 6 (37:32):
And if you are.
Speaker 7 (37:33):
Then you need to reason forder your price. You've got
to decide.
Speaker 3 (37:37):
Yeah, and it's just.
Speaker 7 (37:38):
Really about what top end is for whatever reasons why
they mind.
Speaker 4 (37:42):
Yeah, we might get you back into the sales team, Penny.
But I also do find that it's interesting someone misses
out an auction property. They're very disappointed because they are
their heart set on it. But then you'll see them
two or three months later they go, oh my god,
thank god I missed out on that one. I found
one I like better.
Speaker 3 (37:59):
You know that springs around about now.
Speaker 7 (38:01):
Yeah, but that's why you have a walk away prior
to that, because B is often better. Yeah, but it
really is great to get those council archive files on
a home.
Speaker 3 (38:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (38:12):
Oh good around permits because you know what what might
have been okay in the past.
Speaker 1 (38:17):
Yeah, I've got it's terribly stuck.
Speaker 7 (38:20):
The stuff that they didn't even know about the limited
and say the councilors can yeah, didn't come up and
they really got caught quarter of a million dollars.
Speaker 4 (38:32):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (38:32):
Yeah, Okay, Hey, thanks for that, Penn. I really appreciate
your call. We'll be back in just a moment with
the Property of the Week is next. This is news
talk because they'd be nine minutes to five news talks.
They'd be with, oh, sorry, what am I going to say?
I'm speaking too quick because guess what.
Speaker 1 (38:48):
The one roofed property of the week on the Weekend Collective.
Speaker 3 (38:53):
And so I've worked out that my producer has one
of those sideway glancers which speaks volumes. It's like what
she just looks at me, like what are you doing? Anyway? Hey?
The one roof property of the week is. It's in Wangananui.
It's built in nineteen thirty four, so it's almost ninety
years old. It's a gracious ninety year old residence, well
(39:15):
ready to welcome its next family, one who are love
and cherish everything this remarkable home has to offer. It's
a two story home, framed by mature trees, manicured hedges.
It's got lovely am ambiance, and yet it's got all
the comforts of modern living. Now, actually, I must say
it is just a beautiful old old home. I was
(39:36):
going to get Martin to give us the summary of it,
but it is quickly if you want to google it.
It's four bedrooms, two bathrooms, one car garage which is
slightly a bit of an under and that's a bit
of a it's a bit of a downer. It is
four Kent Roads, St John's Hill and a Wangannui and
it's estimated to go quite an expensive house for nine
(39:58):
hundred thousand. What do you make of it?
Speaker 4 (39:59):
Martin?
Speaker 3 (40:00):
I love the style of it.
Speaker 4 (40:02):
In fact, I went to Wangannui years ago. It was
an art and culture place, really stylish place.
Speaker 1 (40:08):
In fact, I.
Speaker 4 (40:08):
Remember meeting you years ago. You were singing, and now
I find you here in the radio station. Do you
I just wonder you're into art and culture.
Speaker 3 (40:17):
Used to so I'm still singing there. I've got a
Christmas concert next weekend.
Speaker 4 (40:21):
I haven't heard about.
Speaker 3 (40:24):
We should stick to the proper of the week, but
I actually do because it's going to be I think
she might be a bigger drawcat. Actual want doing a
Christmas concert. The Holy Trinity with Erica Stanford is the
MC for it, but it's with north Shaw Brass and
I loved. I love a good Christmas concert, so yeah, good.
Speaker 4 (40:40):
Well now Erica Stanford one incredible Minister of Education and Immigration.
Feature house that one going is a beautiful place. So
the other thing I like about it is the safety,
the community stuff that goes on there. But that house
is about nine hundred thousand dollars affordability sell up in Auckland.
(41:01):
Get down there and live your best life. It is
a luxury home. When you go and have a look
on one roof, look online it is stunning in St
John's hill Top suburb in Wanganui.
Speaker 3 (41:13):
So that's the property of the week. Go and check
it out on one roof and Martin, Hey, great to
see you mate, have ay marry Chris come along to
the concert next Saturday.
Speaker 4 (41:21):
Well, what have you got your lineup of songs? What
have you got?
Speaker 3 (41:24):
It'll be Christmas stuff anyway, I'm doing an album.
Speaker 1 (41:29):
For more from the Weekend Collective.
Speaker 3 (41:30):
Listen live to news talks he'd be weekends from three
pm or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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