March 6, 2026 • 38 mins
Early childhood education is darn expensive.
You want your kids to socialise, make friends, learn some basics - but it costs an arm and a leg.
So how long can you put it off?
LISTEN ABOVE
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Listen
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks B.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
I'm sort of waiting for the lyrics to come in
for the Marcarna, because you know, I'm not hugely in
touch with some sorts of pop music, but even I
know that's the Markarna. Anyway, I'm guessing that must have
been the request of our guests.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Now it's not the request of our guest either, but
welcome to the show. This is the Parents Squad, and
we want your calls again, of course on eight hundred
eighty and the text is nine two two, of course,
and joining me for the Parents Squad before we get
into what we're going to talk about is excuse me,
just swallowed the wrong way? Google Sutherland. He's a principal
(01:14):
psychologist at Umbrella well Being and he's with us with
the Parents Squad? Did I Doogle? How are you going?
Speaker 3 (01:19):
I'm almost offended that you thought the quest of the macarena, well.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
No, because you can you can't actually request it as
a like I I play. I started the show with
I'm So Sexy, you know, And it's not necessarily my
go to tune, although I do put it on if
I want to embarrass my girls and I'm picking them
up from school. I just turn it on and turn
it up, So I don't know, you could be a
(01:46):
Macarena kind of guy.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
Well, no, Baby shap is the other one that brains.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Have you got a theme tune you know.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
You put on?
Speaker 4 (01:59):
Don't?
Speaker 3 (01:59):
I don't really know what about Right of the Belt
from Wagner's opre you know the one that they play
in Apocalypse Now in the helicopters.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
Bum bum bump?
Speaker 3 (02:13):
That would be That would be good, wouldn't it.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
I don't you don't come across as quite a Wagner
a guy, I really doogle have to say?
Speaker 3 (02:19):
No?
Speaker 1 (02:20):
Okay? Well eight eighty six nine two nine two. We
need to find google a theme tune? Okay? Yes, But also,
of course we're here to talk parenting and actually would
I think you'd be a good person to chat about
the stuff with, which is why we have you for
the parents Squad. But you know, they've been there've been
(02:40):
a bunch of stories about education being so expensive. I
mean there's been the private and public debate, which we're
not getting into today, but the early childhood of education
is you know it's an expense, and you know it's
an expense that I guess a lot of parents would
would struggle with. But you know, you also want your
(03:01):
children to socialize, You wanted to make friends, you want
them to learn a few things. Of course, how long
the question? The first question is how long can you
or should you put off getting your children involved in
I don't know, I want to separate daycare off, but
you know the early childhood education.
Speaker 3 (03:24):
Yeah, I'll hold off answering because you know, I could
say two years and three months and then that would
be the end of the show. So that would be.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
No, no, because no no, because people love having something
to It's like you put a target up for people
to have a crack it.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
It is, look, I reckon if we do. In an
ideal world, this is my view, and an ideal world,
a child would spend the first two to two and
a half or three years at home with a parent,
with one parent, and then go into some form of
early childhood education for a limited number of hours per
(03:59):
day per week. Now that's an ideal world. And I
can tell you right now that we didn't live up
to that idea just because we couldn't. We couldn't for
you know, job and economic reasons. So, but I think
that's the ideal really where so you know that kind
of age of three ish, I would say three and
a half getting into into as if we if we're
(04:19):
splitting it off from sort of just like daycare.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
Actually it's almost the it's it's last half full, half empty.
The way we phrase the question how soon should they go?
But the other way to phrase it is how long
should they stay at home at home before they are
actually put pushed into that environment?
Speaker 3 (04:36):
I agree, I reckon if you can be at home,
if a child can be at home for a good
couple of years with her and and I recognize when
I'm saying this that that lots of people cannot afford
to do this, but if they can start home with
it with a with a parent who wants to be
there and is keen to be there with their kid, gosh,
that's such a good start to life. I think some
(04:57):
of the Scandinavian countries give parents like a year or
two years parentally to allow them to do that. It
just I think it's set a child up so well
for just you know, for just life. Really, it's got
a great attachment, You learn good relationships, you get to
know your parents, you feel safe and secure and bonded,
and then you can kind of start branching out into
(05:19):
the bigger world. So but you know, that's that's that's
not able. That's not a viable option for many people,
including us. I think when we had when we had
young kids.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
It's funny every time social policy comes up, it's almost
like I can't remember. There's another rule of conversation that
there's only a certain lenks of length time before somebody
mentions the Nazis or something. But the other, the other
side of it is that in the parenting squad or
anything to do with social consequences, it's only a very
matter of time as to how long before somebody mentioned Scandinavia.
Speaker 3 (05:50):
Yes, that's very true. I could hear myself saying that. Yeah,
it's like, oh yeah, there's that guy again, going well,
I can.
Speaker 5 (05:58):
Do it pretty well.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
And den Mark, why don't we do it here? Actually,
that's it's a funny one. It's a funny thing, isn't
it with the scan Avian countries who do have a
lot of things sought in that respect. And the funny
thing is they pay a lot of tax, which is
how they do it. Yeah, and if I was living
in Scandinavia, I wouldn't I mean, I don't want to
(06:21):
get off the top of it. It is related to it.
If I was living in one of those Scandinavian countries,
I wouldn't mind paying the tax that they paid, because
I know that the things that you might need, like
health care and elderly age care and education, I know
that they're in place, which because people say, oh, we
need to do it here and up the taxes, but
I don't trust that ever spend the money properly and
(06:43):
we have those services.
Speaker 3 (06:44):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, I agree. If I was in Denmark,
I'd be going, oh yes, please. With the help of
doctor Google, I found that it is fifty two weeks
in Denmark have paid a rental lead would paid benefits
designed to support both parents.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
What sort of paid benefits are I mean, do we know?
I don't imagine a time to google them.
Speaker 3 (07:04):
Well, it looks like there's maternity lead opportunity leave, so
each each parent can take it, and then parental leave
which can be split between the two parents, and that's
thirty two weeks of shared leave which is paid. Gosh,
so that's pretty cool. That's setting kids up pretty well
for life.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
So for people who actually are I mean, I guess
this hour is also for parents who maybe have a
choice or are considering the choice, because I mean, it's
not the first parent squad will And there are people
who say, look, we decided that one parent would stay home. Yep,
and we did it really really tough. It was financially hard,
(07:44):
but we made that decision because we believe believed that
that was the right thing for our child. And it's
a difficult one to have a conversation without it getting
into judgmental territory, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
Yeah, Look, I think you know, I think in this
day and age, it is that that balance can we
afford to if we've just a house, you know, actually
we need the money to pay the mortgage and we
need that to make sure we've got a roof over
everybody's heads. So there's yeah, it's it's or do we
just do it really tough for a couple of years,
(08:18):
And is that going to be the best for anybody's
well being? If you're stuck at home, you know, and
you know you're risk getting low in mood or just
isolated as as an adult, Is that great? No, that's
not great either, But so it's it's really tough, I know,
and not an easy thing at all. But yeah, I reckon.
(08:39):
I ideally two years at home with a parent, then
it's early childhood education of some form, you know, just
sort of grad starting small, gradually moving up as kids
get ready for school.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
What are so what are the what's the Dunedin study?
Which is that famous longer General study. I think it's
into a new generation or something. Well, what do we
know about it? Because you know a lot of the time, look,
everyone has to make that choice, and it'll be an
economic one or whatever. But I guess what do we
know about those first two or three years in terms
(09:12):
of kids who were at home or were put into
early childhood educational daycare? What do we do we learn
anything from those studies?
Speaker 3 (09:23):
Yeah? Yeah, remembering of course that I'm the world expert
on the d and study, having being didn'ted and study
child to study child, and weirdly enough we you know,
it forms quite a chunk of psychology training as well nowadays.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
So it's actually no how on so you were just
people will have been driving or listening and going what did.
Speaker 4 (09:45):
He say about?
Speaker 1 (09:46):
So you were actually a subject of the study.
Speaker 3 (09:50):
Yes still am still am still ongoing really every yeah, yeah, yeah,
we go back. Well I think I went back maybe
two years ago. So yeah, every three or four years
growing up, would trek off down to the study for
a day and.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
I imagine they imagine they fly you down, do they and
they all the costs?
Speaker 3 (10:10):
Yeah, they do. Now, so they'll fly you back from
wherever you are, including if you're living internationally, they'll fly
you back from it and wow to make sure that
you that you get back and they'll put up they'll
give you accommodation for a couple of nights. And that's
that's one of the things about the doing studies. They've
held on to so many participants. That's something like ninety
(10:30):
percent of people they've held onto. That's quite unusual in
those long longitudinal studies. People tend to drop off and
they never pick them back up again. So the fact
that they've held on to such a big number there,
so it's a really complete data set. So that's been
a real that's one of their huge achievements is actually
holding onto people. And that's one of the ways they
can do it is they say, look, we'll bring you
(10:51):
back in we'll fly you down, we'll put your up
in accommodation. So helps helps go back.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
Yeah, So what do we what in terms of education,
because look on the news headlines, we've seen terrible headlines
aroun and kids going to school and not even knowing
how to toilet themselves and things like that, and I'm
guessing they've been absent from a whole bunch of things
in their formative years.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
Yeah. Absolutely, Look, I think the key thing that you
get as a as a as an infant, as a
young child from being at home is that relationship, that
strong attachment with your parent and that and for that
to go well, you need everybody to be in a
good space, particularly the parent, the baby, the infant, the
young child at that stage is a fairly passive recipient
(11:34):
of everything. So you need a you need a well parent.
You need a parent who's coping, who's okay in life.
They don't have to be in super great shape, but
they have to be okay and just and not too stressed. Really,
But that those early couple of years are just so
crucial for forming that attachment relationship between a parent and
(11:56):
a child, and you learn a whole lot of things
through that. You learn your template for future relationships with
other people, You learn about self control and relation, you
learn that the world is a safe and secure place.
That's all in an ideal. So that's that's the main thing.
Speaker 4 (12:13):
You know.
Speaker 3 (12:14):
We have this long period of infancy as humans, and
we need a really good starting off base for us
to go forth into later life.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
Gosh, you said something there. We have a long period
of infancy, and part of me was thinking, you know that,
how many years does infancy last, because for some it
lasts well into their teens, doesn't it.
Speaker 3 (12:35):
Well, you know, that's brain development, remember, you know the
whole thing about developing brains that don't really finish developing
until at least the age of twenty five.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
Different for men and women, because I have a sense
that women are ahead of the game and boys we're
about forty three years old when we finally have worked
it out.
Speaker 3 (12:52):
That's right now. Yeah, there is particularly in teenage years,
women tend to do have a little bit quicker maturity.
So young men get left behind a bit or a
bit slower, have only got half a brain until about
the age of twenty five. And it's particularly that front
part of the brain, the prefront or cordex, which is
responsible for impulse control and thinking and planning, all those
(13:15):
things that you would think are super helpful for life.
But those don't really finish forming until at least the
age of twenty five and a bit slower.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
And boys, god, I wonder if there's an evolutionary reason
for that. But anyway, we could get sidetracked by that,
we could get sky. But okay, in terms of keeping,
you said, you know, ideally you want to keep your
children in home for at least maybe two and a
half three years. I said, before you start you introducing
them to the childcare. So you said that ideally, but
(13:45):
you didn't manage to do it. What process? I mean?
You know, I don't know how much you're comfortable of
sharing for yourself, but you are right, you're with me now,
so I'm guessing you are reasonably comfortable. But what was
the decision process with you guys in terms of making
a compromise?
Speaker 3 (14:02):
Yeah, well, my we have we we did and hindsight,
I would not have chosen to do this. We moved
from Dunedin to Wellington when our son was about six
months old. Uh, and so we moved from the the
the nice, warm nest of two sets of grandpearents too,
and long you know friendships that we lived there all
(14:24):
our lives and then we moved up to Wellington, but
it was for jobs. So we moved up for my
wife's job and we needed both to be working to
be able to pay the bills. And so our son
went into childcare between I can't remember exactly when, between
the ages of six months and a year. It was great.
He loved it and ideally we would have we would
(14:46):
have done it differently, but we just couldn't afford to.
We were very lucky and blessed with the place he
went to. They loved him and it was great, but gosh,
that would have been so good to have been. And
we did it with our daughter, but we've managed to
work it so that we could stay at home for
over a year with her between the between the two
of us, So I did six months in my life
about over six months.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
The tough decisions, aren't they And it was tougher because
because is it tougher when you do what you do?
You know, I supposed to most people, don't you know,
if you're a bit psychologist doctor heel thyself, as you know,
I don't sometimes wonder whether it's you know, that makes
it tougher.
Speaker 3 (15:24):
I think looking back, we were probably a bit naive
and a bit and probably without naivety we wouldn't have
even moved away. But you know, it just so happened
that my wife was coming to the end of one
job and she's got a new job, and it was
in Wellington, and it was like, well, we need to
work to pay the bills, and so so we kind
(15:45):
of went into it with naivety and hindsight, it's one
of those things you might maybe we could have done.
It would have been lovely to have done it differently.
I don't know how it happened.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
Being a parent though, I mean, isn't it just I
wouldn't say that this sums up my parental experience, but basically,
as soon as you've become a parent, you just put
one foot in front of the other and keep moving
and you keep making decisions and you do you roll
with the punches, you know, and you just have to
and that's agree and that's actually I don't know, It's
(16:14):
just the human condition, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (16:16):
Yeah, yeah, you know, and and we try to do
a bit better than we did the last generation. And
you know, you don't have to be a perfect parent.
You just have to be good enough. And that's okay.
And if you're good enough, then actually your kids will
be fine. And and being good enough is sometimes going Okay,
I'm just going to be a little bit better today
(16:37):
than I was yesterday or you know, this year or
this month. I'm just going to do things a little
bit differently and just you know, just small things to
improve on. But it's the biggest challenge I reckon in
life is raising kids.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
As your as you know, I don't want to dwell
on this too much, but from your point of view
with you know, you've said ideally we would have done things.
Definitely we had our time. Again, I don't think there's
anyone in the world that exists who hasn't had those
thoughts with a whole bunch of things. Was it was it? Because?
Was it?
Speaker 3 (17:10):
Is?
Speaker 4 (17:10):
It?
Speaker 5 (17:10):
Was it?
Speaker 1 (17:10):
Because just what you think you missed out on as
a parent in terms of that regret or you wish
it just from the point of view of your children
as well.
Speaker 3 (17:19):
From there, but both I think and I can remember
some of those kind of early years were worse, were
you know, we're strained. We were you know, we were
getting up, having to get up at five to get
everything ready for the day. And and you know, because
I was catching a train to work and I had
to get dropped down at the train, and so we
(17:40):
had to get up early. It was like a and
so it was tough. It was hard. We were tired,
We were socially kind of isolated. We didn't have many connections.
You know, it takes a while to build up connections
in a new setting. I think I would have enjoyed
it more if we'd had a bit more time, and
and maybe our maybe our boy would have as well.
He seemed to have gone okay, but but maybe he
(18:02):
would have, you know, he would have been off to
an even better start. So I for me, I kind of,
you know, kind of think, oh, maybe it would have
been a bit better for us. It was stressful times
looking back, but you're in the midst of it. You
don't have the benefit of hindsight. You just got your
head down and you bum up, and you're trying to
do your thing, and you know, just trying to not
make too many mistakes.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
And then you've just summed up every parent. Hey, that's right.
I mean, what's the famous outage It goes you know
that despite your best efforts, your kids generally turn out
all right, despite your best efforts to I can't remember
what that qutors or something like that. We'd love your
cause on this And how long did you keep your
kids at home with you? Are you a parent who's
(18:44):
in the midst of making that decision as to you know,
when do you you know? When do you how long
do you keep them at home for? But the other
side of the question is, which is the way I
started the show was when did you decide to put
your kids into early childhood education? Because the other side
of it is it's bloody expensive. So yeah, eight hundred
(19:04):
eighty text nine two nine two. And do you wish
you could keep your kids home longer? Or did you
just you know you do you cope with what you
have to deal with at the time? And fingers crossed?
I often do I say fingers crossed on this show
twenty five and a half past five News Talks. He'd
be love your calls eight hundred and eighty ten eighty
(19:42):
Now I just play that because we're also searching for
a theme chuin for Google sutherlandon and actually that's the
theme from Austin Powers, which was actually written a long
time before the Austin Powers movie. I think that's quite it.
Speaker 3 (19:53):
I have.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
I've seized upon that one of myself as a theme
tune from time to time. But no, we're not there yet,
are we doogle?
Speaker 3 (20:00):
No, No, I'll put my I haven't really thought about it,
to be frank, I've been so I've been so engrossed
in the conversation.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
I'm just in mind to that.
Speaker 3 (20:11):
But I'll put some next time. In the next break,
I'll have a think about what might be an ideal
theme tune.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
Okay, hey, now, let's talk about the needs that children
have as they as you consider putting them into early
childhood education. What is the most what are the most
important skills that things that children learn that they might
you know, learn once they venture outside the house when
Mum and Dad decided to put them into a day
(20:38):
or two or three or four or five or whatever.
And to is it the social stuff that's most important?
Is it just rolling around in dirt and you know,
falling out of trees or what I.
Speaker 3 (20:50):
Think I think education would be in terms of sort
of formal education would kind of be a lower rankot.
But I think two the top two would be as
you've mentioned, one would be about being around other people.
And I'm kind of carefully framed that because you know,
everybody that's got little kids knows that, you know, two
and three and even four year olds often don't really
(21:12):
play together. They play alongside one another, which is quite normal.
But it's learning how to be in the same space
with other kids and share things and develop those pro
social skills. I think that's really important. And then just
the widening of experiences that you get from being in
another environment. You know, usually childcare and your education centers
(21:34):
have a whole vast range of things you just don't
have at home. Many people won't have a sandpit at
home or whatever, or you know, or trampoline modern they trembling.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
Actually, that's funny that you say that many people. I
actually did have a sandpit when I grew up at
my home. I don't think that. I can't remember the
last time I've seen a sandpit. Yea, my producer, Tira,
she's got a sandpit. She's very smug Tyra on parenting.
She's like, we've got a sandpit. It means one of
(22:07):
those blue she means one of the blue shehell ones
I think you buy. My sandpit was literally an organic sand.
It was one of my My dad must have dug
it out and just filled it with I just had
like a it was like a long jump pit, but
it was a sandpit.
Speaker 3 (22:21):
I mean, of course, we had an old track to
tire I think an old tract to tire filled and
then the bait the middle filled up with sand that
we had to remember going to the beach with Dad
and getting sacks of sand to put into the to
the sandpit. So yeah, but but yeah, I don't many
people don't have them anymore, don't they.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
Yeah, Hey, look we're going to take some calls, and
we've got anna hello.
Speaker 3 (22:44):
Yes.
Speaker 5 (22:44):
Hello. I think it's really important to have your children
at home in those early years because it's not only
good for the children but a parents as well, and
you get a real close connection to them for the
rest of their life before they go out to preschool
(23:07):
and then school.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
Yeah, did you spend a lot of time with your
kids when you were when they were growing up?
Speaker 5 (23:15):
Yes, I was lucky. I was home and too always
and it was just fantastic to be with them and
enjoy their company. And I just think parents miss out
on so much when they pushed their children into preschool
too soon.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
Yeah. Do you think that there's a lot of and
do you think there's a lot more pressure on both
parents to be working though, because it's almost like I've
done a bit of talkback on this over the years,
and I've had calls from women, you know, with different opinions,
but some who felt that they said that they almost
felt that pressured that they because of the whole feminism
(23:57):
thing that she they had to go back to work
earlier when they really would have preferred to maybe have
another year or two at home.
Speaker 5 (24:05):
Yes, well that would be hard. Fortunately I didn't have
to go back to work at that stage, but I
did as soon as they reach to school.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
Did you okay? Yeah, but you didn't feel you're missing
out on the workforce. You're quite happy to be at home?
Speaker 5 (24:22):
Oh yes, yeah, I love love being at home the
two boys. It was fantastic, the best time of my life.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
Yeah, it's good to hear Anna, thanks for that, you know.
That's what I did ask Anna their google about the expectations.
And it is a tricky one because society's expectations have
lurched around on this a bit where you know, with
the various And this is without any sense of opinion
about it, but I know from speaking to women how
(24:51):
pushed and pulled they felt by the sort of societal
expectations of whether they should be at stay at home mums.
Then it was a time and state at home mums
were looked down on. I wonder if we're in an
era now where sta at home mums are to a
certain extent seen as the life uy ones now. And
I'm saying mums, and I know that you know it's
it's a gender specific of they stay at home dads
(25:12):
as well. But if we're just going to be honest,
the vast the majority of the parents who stay at
home usually are mums.
Speaker 3 (25:21):
Yeah, I also note danger Will Robinson, two men are
stepping into the area of.
Speaker 6 (25:30):
No.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
I don't mean it from that point of view.
Speaker 3 (25:31):
I mean, no, no, I should two men discuss feminism?
Speaker 1 (25:35):
Yeah? Yeah, Yeah. What I mean is I have a
job where I was doing music and also I started
doing talkback radio in the early years of my children's lives,
and as a music I was at home a lot
and I consider myself really really lucky when I look
back on that by accident lucky.
Speaker 3 (25:57):
Yeah, I agree. I think there's so many pressures now
for both parents to be in the workforce that it's
much perhaps more difficult, uh for for either parent and
needgers say many times it's women that are staying at home,
but it's I think there's it's more difficult to do
that now, and you have to make a clear and strong,
(26:20):
deliberate choice to do that, and that's got to come
up the cost of something. Maybe you have to maybe
hold off actually buying your first house because you go,
we're gonna, we're gonna we're not going to be able
to afford a mortgage. We'll just be having to rent
and you know, we're going to have our kids and
then buy, or lots of people hold off having kids
still later life now too, when they've got a bit
(26:41):
more stability under them. So that's a that's a trend
to that increasing age of parents having their first child
as there as they sort of get a bit more established.
And yeah, it's I think it's just tougher than it was,
you know, a generation ago.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
And I guess either decision has a price to pay.
For it, doesn't it because you know, we all, I
mean our we all want to That's the thing. It's
it's not only the question for a parent, but I wonder,
I think about my girls when they grow up and
they have careers, and if they have families, what would
my expectations or my hopes, sorry, not my expectations, what
(27:17):
would my hopes be? And my hope would be that
they could make the choice to do what they want
without it having major consequences.
Speaker 3 (27:24):
Yeah, yeah, I agree, because that we're starting to get
into the gender pay gap, right, and that women tend
to lay behind because they'd go out of the workforce
to have children and to be at home, and stereotypically
men don't do that so much and they continue on
in their career. And how do we make that a
kind of an equitable fear thing that that doesn't disadvantage anybody?
Speaker 1 (27:47):
But is that? Ohing? God, this is a dangerous part
of the conversation where you get yourself into trouble. So
I'm going to try and I'll stumble my way around this,
but Okay, this is what I mean to say, is
I do feel that there needs to be pushed back
against the idea that I had to stay home with
the kids as if. And this is one of the
things I worry about with the messages of society and
(28:09):
the arguments that somehow I was the loser because I
had to stay at home with kids. And I don't
mean I'm not many mums or dads, Okay, I'm just
talking that the parent who stayed at home with the children,
they're the lucky ones. Yeah, I think. And what I
get a bit annoyed that the idea that you know,
(28:30):
we lost out, I lost out because I had to
stay at home with the kids. Well, you shouldn't have
done it then, but you would then you'd be really complaining.
Speaker 3 (28:37):
I don't know you were from, you know, and the
call just before how much she enjoyed being at home
with her her boys when she when she was when
she was younger. But I agree, if you can't, if
it does cause you to have a chip on the shoulder,
maybe it's maybe it might be better not to stay
at home, because you can imagine how that kind of
could could sort of influence your daily interactions with your kids.
(28:57):
If it's something kind of you have to do and
you don't really want to be here.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
And well, I mean that's the thing we having. I mean,
I'm just sometimes wondering, do we do we need to
give the idea of parent or a bit of a break.
In fact, actually, if you're a parent, you know, lucky
you for one and two if you get to spend
time at home with them, maybe lucky you as well,
so long as you've got a bit of balance for
your sanity. Of course, you're actually happy to get take
(29:23):
your calls on this on eight hundred and eighty ten
eighty because guess what, I've got to take a break.
Time flies when you're having fun with Google Stephenson, one
of the subjects of the Dunedin study too. Maybe maybe
your theme music needs to be some music to do
with Dunedin. Probably one of those you know, look look blue,
go purple or something shows an age, doesn't it. You
know that one to twenty one minutes to Sex News Talks,
(29:47):
it'd be yes an apology from me. I called Google
Sutherland Google Stephenson, because I guess I remember that the
era of.
Speaker 3 (29:53):
That that's showing your.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
Age three three syllables starting with S, you know, is a.
Speaker 3 (30:02):
Very uncommon name, so that it's quite it's quite a
common thing that I get. I used I used AI
to help me with the theme tune, and it came
up with good Vibrations by from the Beach Boys.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
Oh okay, and you look, you look, I can see
that working for you. Okay, We're going to save that
one up. Good vibrations for Google, right, Google Sutherland, by
the way, let's go to Josh Hello.
Speaker 7 (30:32):
Yeah, hey guys, Hey Tim, Hey doogle. Great discussion. Hey,
just with our sort of you know, we're thinking about
our bias or our particular view of it. But I
found myself judging people who don't stay at home with
their kids because I've got a model in mind, you see,
(30:54):
and when that doesn't other people do something different, I'm like,
you know, so we all have that we judged our own.
We we do, we do. But I like the sound of,
to be honest with you, the mother being home with
the kid for the first three years, and perhaps even
(31:16):
if hey look at all black recently got a bit
of heat for going on maternity leave. My sort of
attitude around that is, why not spend the first three
months with your newborn if you're in that position.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
So when I hear that all taking time for paternity live.
I actually think lucky lucky him good on them.
Speaker 7 (31:41):
Yeah, yeah, exactly. There's got to be a bit of
possible avenues for role re versus two. But I would
like to sell kids at home with at least one
parent for the first three years and then perhaps yeah,
just go from there. But I'm no in favor of
(32:03):
newborn's being slung into care. I actually think Google was
there plunket doesn't release some information about potential brain injury
caused perhaps by kids going into oh yeah, a bit
(32:23):
too young and.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
Being denied that early bonding. Yeah, that is I don't know.
It's not something we're really getting.
Speaker 3 (32:28):
Into brain injury so much, but it can. It has
the potential to affect that kind of attachment relationship with
a parent. But yeah, I'm with you, Josh. You know,
first two or three years for a parent, one of
the parents at least to be at home. So Sweden
four hundred and eighty days of leave at eighty percent
of your normal pay. There you go for either parent.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
Lindle says, in ninety sixty eight ten, when I had
my first child, I was sacked from my insurance company
job because I was pregnant. Try that now, zero equality
in those days. Yes, that's worth pointing out the lack
of choice, which is it's the lack of choice gardless
of which generation you are that grinds, isn't it. Yeah,
Brian Hello.
Speaker 4 (33:11):
Years Hello, Hey. I was born in fifty one and
in those days it was it was called kindergarten. It
wasn't called pre school. It was called kindergarten, which I
would think is the kinder children's children children and gardens garden,
(33:35):
the child garden. Yes, and it was very much more
formal then than just preschool, you.
Speaker 1 (33:43):
Know, I was more formal. I thought.
Speaker 4 (33:49):
It was more institutional. You know, if you garden, you
you you were basically it was pre school, but it was.
It was very much more formal. You wouldn't seem to
me to be anyway. I never went there. I was
(34:09):
pulled up on the farm and we were just another laby.
And instead of having kindergarten, we had a maze paddic
which we used to go out well and picked the
maze u by hand, you know.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
And the company and the company of one of one
or other of your parents, I'm.
Speaker 4 (34:28):
Guessing obviously is but it was. It was was most interesting.
I just thought you don't hear the kindergarten.
Speaker 1 (34:42):
Yeah, no, you don't hear that name anymore. Actually, it's
it's the weird I used to use all the time.
Speaker 3 (34:47):
Yeah, yeah, I went to Kendy there there, there we
go is still out there. I'll tell you. I'll tell
you a story that will that will blanch you blanch
the socks I used to I went to kindy and
I used to walk. I used to walk home by
myself from Kendy when I was four, and it was
about was probably fifteen or twenty minutes or so. And
(35:10):
I can remember discovering that and saying, Mom, did you
much did I walk home by myself? And I was poor?
She said, oh, yep, the roads when Oh my goodness.
Speaker 1 (35:20):
Actually I still remember our housekeeper. You know, we had
and nanny company what the word was back then. But
somebody who used to look after me a couple of
mornings a week, and I had to give her directions
on how to get to kindergarten. And she got quite
cross with me because she thought I was deliberately leading
(35:41):
her around town just anywhere. But I wasn't. In fact,
she later on said, actually he did get quite because
the mum said where it was when she realized she
couldn't find it, and I'd only got to within a street,
which I thought was a four year old navigating iod
pretty well.
Speaker 4 (35:56):
But she's pretty good.
Speaker 1 (35:57):
I remember her looking at me, going, are you trying
to send me around the like I'm only four? I
haven't I haven't got anything.
Speaker 3 (36:04):
We've ended up sweet shop. How did that happen? I
don't know. I thought, that's not KNDy.
Speaker 4 (36:09):
But here we go.
Speaker 1 (36:11):
We'll come back with Robin and just to take it
as eleven and a half minutes to hong On. No,
we all got sports raps. We'll have to quickly take
Robin's call now Robin, Hello, Oh hi guys.
Speaker 5 (36:21):
Hi.
Speaker 6 (36:23):
I brought four kids up at home, just myself who
is a stay home mum, and we lived in all
sorts of places. It was more like camping for us
most of the time. This is in Australia, so we
we like, we didn't have TV, and we'd go to town
(36:45):
once a week and go to the library and bring
all sorts of bits and pieces back and what have you.
And it's actually really good for mum and the dad
when they're young, because you're young at heart. As well,
so you can play you know how to play. Yeah,
and that's really cool.
Speaker 4 (37:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (37:07):
So I've looked after my grandson one day a week.
Speaker 4 (37:12):
Loving that't you.
Speaker 6 (37:14):
Yeah. Well he's now seven, so I don't have to
do that now, but you could see that he's he
really related to having having me at home.
Speaker 4 (37:27):
You know it?
Speaker 1 (37:28):
Well another num Yeah, No, I mean it's really it is.
It is actually a nice it's worth reflecting on. You
know that you haven't drawn the short straw if you're
the one that gets to stay home sometimes, isn't it, Dougal.
Speaker 3 (37:40):
Yeah, And being able to play with your kids, as
Robin said, I think that's such a great thing, just
to be able to even if it's half an hour
a day. Actually that he asked about research, Well, that's
one of the things that research shows us. If you
can play with your child for at least twenty thirty
minutes a day, it doesn't matter if you're at home
with them or not, just being and playing, not directing them,
not telling them what to do, just being.
Speaker 1 (38:01):
On the table. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (38:03):
Great, that's really.
Speaker 1 (38:03):
Great, great information. Hey good, hey, great to chat to you,
as always doogle, we'll have that theme is ready for you.
Next time.
Speaker 3 (38:09):
All right, lovely, that's thanks.
Speaker 1 (38:11):
Yeah, that's Google Sutherland, not Google Stevenson. As I said
in the last break from the Umbrella Group, we'll be
back with the Sports Rap with Christopher Eve. Superman is
with us in news Talk Said B. Back in the
Bay for more from the weekend collective. Listen live to
News Talk Said B weekends from three pm, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks B.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
I'm sort of waiting for the lyrics to come in
for the Marcarna, because you know, I'm not hugely in
touch with some sorts of pop music, but even I
know that's the Markarna. Anyway, I'm guessing that must have
been the request of our guests.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Now it's not the request of our guest either, but
welcome to the show. This is the Parents Squad, and
we want your calls again, of course on eight hundred
eighty and the text is nine two two, of course,
and joining me for the Parents Squad before we get
into what we're going to talk about is excuse me,
just swallowed the wrong way? Google Sutherland. He's a principal
(01:14):
psychologist at Umbrella well Being and he's with us with
the Parents Squad? Did I Doogle? How are you going?
Speaker 3 (01:19):
I'm almost offended that you thought the quest of the macarena, well.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
No, because you can you can't actually request it as
a like I I play. I started the show with
I'm So Sexy, you know, And it's not necessarily my
go to tune, although I do put it on if
I want to embarrass my girls and I'm picking them
up from school. I just turn it on and turn
it up, So I don't know, you could be a
(01:46):
Macarena kind of guy.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
Well, no, Baby shap is the other one that brains.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Have you got a theme tune you know.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
You put on?
Speaker 4 (01:59):
Don't?
Speaker 3 (01:59):
I don't really know what about Right of the Belt
from Wagner's opre you know the one that they play
in Apocalypse Now in the helicopters.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
Bum bum bump?
Speaker 3 (02:13):
That would be That would be good, wouldn't it.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
I don't you don't come across as quite a Wagner
a guy, I really doogle have to say?
Speaker 3 (02:19):
No?
Speaker 1 (02:20):
Okay? Well eight eighty six nine two nine two. We
need to find google a theme tune? Okay? Yes, But also,
of course we're here to talk parenting and actually would
I think you'd be a good person to chat about
the stuff with, which is why we have you for
the parents Squad. But you know, they've been there've been
(02:40):
a bunch of stories about education being so expensive. I
mean there's been the private and public debate, which we're
not getting into today, but the early childhood of education
is you know it's an expense, and you know it's
an expense that I guess a lot of parents would
would struggle with. But you know, you also want your
(03:01):
children to socialize, You wanted to make friends, you want
them to learn a few things. Of course, how long
the question? The first question is how long can you
or should you put off getting your children involved in
I don't know, I want to separate daycare off, but
you know the early childhood education.
Speaker 3 (03:24):
Yeah, I'll hold off answering because you know, I could
say two years and three months and then that would
be the end of the show. So that would be.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
No, no, because no no, because people love having something
to It's like you put a target up for people
to have a crack it.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
It is, look, I reckon if we do. In an
ideal world, this is my view, and an ideal world,
a child would spend the first two to two and
a half or three years at home with a parent,
with one parent, and then go into some form of
early childhood education for a limited number of hours per
(03:59):
day per week. Now that's an ideal world. And I
can tell you right now that we didn't live up
to that idea just because we couldn't. We couldn't for
you know, job and economic reasons. So, but I think
that's the ideal really where so you know that kind
of age of three ish, I would say three and
a half getting into into as if we if we're
(04:19):
splitting it off from sort of just like daycare.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
Actually it's almost the it's it's last half full, half empty.
The way we phrase the question how soon should they go?
But the other way to phrase it is how long
should they stay at home at home before they are
actually put pushed into that environment?
Speaker 3 (04:36):
I agree, I reckon if you can be at home,
if a child can be at home for a good
couple of years with her and and I recognize when
I'm saying this that that lots of people cannot afford
to do this, but if they can start home with
it with a with a parent who wants to be
there and is keen to be there with their kid, gosh,
that's such a good start to life. I think some
(04:57):
of the Scandinavian countries give parents like a year or
two years parentally to allow them to do that. It
just I think it's set a child up so well
for just you know, for just life. Really, it's got
a great attachment, You learn good relationships, you get to
know your parents, you feel safe and secure and bonded,
and then you can kind of start branching out into
(05:19):
the bigger world. So but you know, that's that's that's
not able. That's not a viable option for many people,
including us. I think when we had when we had
young kids.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
It's funny every time social policy comes up, it's almost
like I can't remember. There's another rule of conversation that
there's only a certain lenks of length time before somebody
mentions the Nazis or something. But the other, the other
side of it is that in the parenting squad or
anything to do with social consequences, it's only a very
matter of time as to how long before somebody mentioned Scandinavia.
Speaker 3 (05:50):
Yes, that's very true. I could hear myself saying that. Yeah,
it's like, oh yeah, there's that guy again, going well,
I can.
Speaker 5 (05:58):
Do it pretty well.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
And den Mark, why don't we do it here? Actually,
that's it's a funny one. It's a funny thing, isn't
it with the scan Avian countries who do have a
lot of things sought in that respect. And the funny
thing is they pay a lot of tax, which is
how they do it. Yeah, and if I was living
in Scandinavia, I wouldn't I mean, I don't want to
(06:21):
get off the top of it. It is related to it.
If I was living in one of those Scandinavian countries,
I wouldn't mind paying the tax that they paid, because
I know that the things that you might need, like
health care and elderly age care and education, I know
that they're in place, which because people say, oh, we
need to do it here and up the taxes, but
I don't trust that ever spend the money properly and
(06:43):
we have those services.
Speaker 3 (06:44):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, I agree. If I was in Denmark,
I'd be going, oh yes, please. With the help of
doctor Google, I found that it is fifty two weeks
in Denmark have paid a rental lead would paid benefits
designed to support both parents.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
What sort of paid benefits are I mean, do we know?
I don't imagine a time to google them.
Speaker 3 (07:04):
Well, it looks like there's maternity lead opportunity leave, so
each each parent can take it, and then parental leave
which can be split between the two parents, and that's
thirty two weeks of shared leave which is paid. Gosh,
so that's pretty cool. That's setting kids up pretty well
for life.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
So for people who actually are I mean, I guess
this hour is also for parents who maybe have a
choice or are considering the choice, because I mean, it's
not the first parent squad will And there are people
who say, look, we decided that one parent would stay home. Yep,
and we did it really really tough. It was financially hard,
(07:44):
but we made that decision because we believe believed that
that was the right thing for our child. And it's
a difficult one to have a conversation without it getting
into judgmental territory, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
Yeah, Look, I think you know, I think in this
day and age, it is that that balance can we
afford to if we've just a house, you know, actually
we need the money to pay the mortgage and we
need that to make sure we've got a roof over
everybody's heads. So there's yeah, it's it's or do we
just do it really tough for a couple of years,
(08:18):
And is that going to be the best for anybody's
well being? If you're stuck at home, you know, and
you know you're risk getting low in mood or just
isolated as as an adult, Is that great? No, that's
not great either, But so it's it's really tough, I know,
and not an easy thing at all. But yeah, I reckon.
(08:39):
I ideally two years at home with a parent, then
it's early childhood education of some form, you know, just
sort of grad starting small, gradually moving up as kids
get ready for school.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
What are so what are the what's the Dunedin study?
Which is that famous longer General study. I think it's
into a new generation or something. Well, what do we
know about it? Because you know a lot of the time, look,
everyone has to make that choice, and it'll be an
economic one or whatever. But I guess what do we
know about those first two or three years in terms
(09:12):
of kids who were at home or were put into
early childhood educational daycare? What do we do we learn
anything from those studies?
Speaker 3 (09:23):
Yeah? Yeah, remembering of course that I'm the world expert
on the d and study, having being didn'ted and study
child to study child, and weirdly enough we you know,
it forms quite a chunk of psychology training as well nowadays.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
So it's actually no how on so you were just
people will have been driving or listening and going what did.
Speaker 4 (09:45):
He say about?
Speaker 1 (09:46):
So you were actually a subject of the study.
Speaker 3 (09:50):
Yes still am still am still ongoing really every yeah, yeah, yeah,
we go back. Well I think I went back maybe
two years ago. So yeah, every three or four years
growing up, would trek off down to the study for
a day and.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
I imagine they imagine they fly you down, do they and
they all the costs?
Speaker 3 (10:10):
Yeah, they do. Now, so they'll fly you back from
wherever you are, including if you're living internationally, they'll fly
you back from it and wow to make sure that
you that you get back and they'll put up they'll
give you accommodation for a couple of nights. And that's
that's one of the things about the doing studies. They've
held on to so many participants. That's something like ninety
(10:30):
percent of people they've held onto. That's quite unusual in
those long longitudinal studies. People tend to drop off and
they never pick them back up again. So the fact
that they've held on to such a big number there,
so it's a really complete data set. So that's been
a real that's one of their huge achievements is actually
holding onto people. And that's one of the ways they
can do it is they say, look, we'll bring you
(10:51):
back in we'll fly you down, we'll put your up
in accommodation. So helps helps go back.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
Yeah, So what do we what in terms of education,
because look on the news headlines, we've seen terrible headlines
aroun and kids going to school and not even knowing
how to toilet themselves and things like that, and I'm
guessing they've been absent from a whole bunch of things
in their formative years.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
Yeah. Absolutely, Look, I think the key thing that you
get as a as a as an infant, as a
young child from being at home is that relationship, that
strong attachment with your parent and that and for that
to go well, you need everybody to be in a
good space, particularly the parent, the baby, the infant, the
young child at that stage is a fairly passive recipient
(11:34):
of everything. So you need a you need a well parent.
You need a parent who's coping, who's okay in life.
They don't have to be in super great shape, but
they have to be okay and just and not too stressed. Really,
But that those early couple of years are just so
crucial for forming that attachment relationship between a parent and
(11:56):
a child, and you learn a whole lot of things
through that. You learn your template for future relationships with
other people, You learn about self control and relation, you
learn that the world is a safe and secure place.
That's all in an ideal. So that's that's the main thing.
Speaker 4 (12:13):
You know.
Speaker 3 (12:14):
We have this long period of infancy as humans, and
we need a really good starting off base for us
to go forth into later life.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
Gosh, you said something there. We have a long period
of infancy, and part of me was thinking, you know that,
how many years does infancy last, because for some it
lasts well into their teens, doesn't it.
Speaker 3 (12:35):
Well, you know, that's brain development, remember, you know the
whole thing about developing brains that don't really finish developing
until at least the age of twenty five.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
Different for men and women, because I have a sense
that women are ahead of the game and boys we're
about forty three years old when we finally have worked
it out.
Speaker 3 (12:52):
That's right now. Yeah, there is particularly in teenage years,
women tend to do have a little bit quicker maturity.
So young men get left behind a bit or a
bit slower, have only got half a brain until about
the age of twenty five. And it's particularly that front
part of the brain, the prefront or cordex, which is
responsible for impulse control and thinking and planning, all those
(13:15):
things that you would think are super helpful for life.
But those don't really finish forming until at least the
age of twenty five and a bit slower.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
And boys, god, I wonder if there's an evolutionary reason
for that. But anyway, we could get sidetracked by that,
we could get sky. But okay, in terms of keeping,
you said, you know, ideally you want to keep your
children in home for at least maybe two and a
half three years. I said, before you start you introducing
them to the childcare. So you said that ideally, but
(13:45):
you didn't manage to do it. What process? I mean?
You know, I don't know how much you're comfortable of
sharing for yourself, but you are right, you're with me now,
so I'm guessing you are reasonably comfortable. But what was
the decision process with you guys in terms of making
a compromise?
Speaker 3 (14:02):
Yeah, well, my we have we we did and hindsight,
I would not have chosen to do this. We moved
from Dunedin to Wellington when our son was about six
months old. Uh, and so we moved from the the
the nice, warm nest of two sets of grandpearents too,
and long you know friendships that we lived there all
(14:24):
our lives and then we moved up to Wellington, but
it was for jobs. So we moved up for my
wife's job and we needed both to be working to
be able to pay the bills. And so our son
went into childcare between I can't remember exactly when, between
the ages of six months and a year. It was great.
He loved it and ideally we would have we would
(14:46):
have done it differently, but we just couldn't afford to.
We were very lucky and blessed with the place he
went to. They loved him and it was great, but gosh,
that would have been so good to have been. And
we did it with our daughter, but we've managed to
work it so that we could stay at home for
over a year with her between the between the two
of us, So I did six months in my life
about over six months.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
The tough decisions, aren't they And it was tougher because
because is it tougher when you do what you do?
You know, I supposed to most people, don't you know,
if you're a bit psychologist doctor heel thyself, as you know,
I don't sometimes wonder whether it's you know, that makes
it tougher.
Speaker 3 (15:24):
I think looking back, we were probably a bit naive
and a bit and probably without naivety we wouldn't have
even moved away. But you know, it just so happened
that my wife was coming to the end of one
job and she's got a new job, and it was
in Wellington, and it was like, well, we need to
work to pay the bills, and so so we kind
(15:45):
of went into it with naivety and hindsight, it's one
of those things you might maybe we could have done.
It would have been lovely to have done it differently.
I don't know how it happened.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
Being a parent though, I mean, isn't it just I
wouldn't say that this sums up my parental experience, but basically,
as soon as you've become a parent, you just put
one foot in front of the other and keep moving
and you keep making decisions and you do you roll
with the punches, you know, and you just have to
and that's agree and that's actually I don't know, It's
(16:14):
just the human condition, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (16:16):
Yeah, yeah, you know, and and we try to do
a bit better than we did the last generation. And
you know, you don't have to be a perfect parent.
You just have to be good enough. And that's okay.
And if you're good enough, then actually your kids will
be fine. And and being good enough is sometimes going Okay,
I'm just going to be a little bit better today
(16:37):
than I was yesterday or you know, this year or
this month. I'm just going to do things a little
bit differently and just you know, just small things to
improve on. But it's the biggest challenge I reckon in
life is raising kids.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
As your as you know, I don't want to dwell
on this too much, but from your point of view
with you know, you've said ideally we would have done things.
Definitely we had our time. Again, I don't think there's
anyone in the world that exists who hasn't had those
thoughts with a whole bunch of things. Was it was it? Because?
Was it?
Speaker 3 (17:10):
Is?
Speaker 4 (17:10):
It?
Speaker 5 (17:10):
Was it?
Speaker 1 (17:10):
Because just what you think you missed out on as
a parent in terms of that regret or you wish
it just from the point of view of your children
as well.
Speaker 3 (17:19):
From there, but both I think and I can remember
some of those kind of early years were worse, were
you know, we're strained. We were you know, we were
getting up, having to get up at five to get
everything ready for the day. And and you know, because
I was catching a train to work and I had
to get dropped down at the train, and so we
(17:40):
had to get up early. It was like a and
so it was tough. It was hard. We were tired,
We were socially kind of isolated. We didn't have many connections.
You know, it takes a while to build up connections
in a new setting. I think I would have enjoyed
it more if we'd had a bit more time, and
and maybe our maybe our boy would have as well.
He seemed to have gone okay, but but maybe he
(18:02):
would have, you know, he would have been off to
an even better start. So I for me, I kind of,
you know, kind of think, oh, maybe it would have
been a bit better for us. It was stressful times
looking back, but you're in the midst of it. You
don't have the benefit of hindsight. You just got your
head down and you bum up, and you're trying to
do your thing, and you know, just trying to not
make too many mistakes.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
And then you've just summed up every parent. Hey, that's right.
I mean, what's the famous outage It goes you know
that despite your best efforts, your kids generally turn out
all right, despite your best efforts to I can't remember
what that qutors or something like that. We'd love your
cause on this And how long did you keep your
kids at home with you? Are you a parent who's
(18:44):
in the midst of making that decision as to you know,
when do you you know? When do you how long
do you keep them at home for? But the other
side of the question is, which is the way I
started the show was when did you decide to put
your kids into early childhood education? Because the other side
of it is it's bloody expensive. So yeah, eight hundred
(19:04):
eighty text nine two nine two. And do you wish
you could keep your kids home longer? Or did you
just you know you do you cope with what you
have to deal with at the time? And fingers crossed?
I often do I say fingers crossed on this show
twenty five and a half past five News Talks. He'd
be love your calls eight hundred and eighty ten eighty
(19:42):
Now I just play that because we're also searching for
a theme chuin for Google sutherlandon and actually that's the
theme from Austin Powers, which was actually written a long
time before the Austin Powers movie. I think that's quite it.
Speaker 3 (19:53):
I have.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
I've seized upon that one of myself as a theme
tune from time to time. But no, we're not there yet,
are we doogle?
Speaker 3 (20:00):
No, No, I'll put my I haven't really thought about it,
to be frank, I've been so I've been so engrossed
in the conversation.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
I'm just in mind to that.
Speaker 3 (20:11):
But I'll put some next time. In the next break,
I'll have a think about what might be an ideal
theme tune.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
Okay, hey, now, let's talk about the needs that children
have as they as you consider putting them into early
childhood education. What is the most what are the most
important skills that things that children learn that they might
you know, learn once they venture outside the house when
Mum and Dad decided to put them into a day
(20:38):
or two or three or four or five or whatever.
And to is it the social stuff that's most important?
Is it just rolling around in dirt and you know,
falling out of trees or what I.
Speaker 3 (20:50):
Think I think education would be in terms of sort
of formal education would kind of be a lower rankot.
But I think two the top two would be as
you've mentioned, one would be about being around other people.
And I'm kind of carefully framed that because you know,
everybody that's got little kids knows that, you know, two
and three and even four year olds often don't really
(21:12):
play together. They play alongside one another, which is quite normal.
But it's learning how to be in the same space
with other kids and share things and develop those pro
social skills. I think that's really important. And then just
the widening of experiences that you get from being in
another environment. You know, usually childcare and your education centers
(21:34):
have a whole vast range of things you just don't
have at home. Many people won't have a sandpit at
home or whatever, or you know, or trampoline modern they trembling.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
Actually, that's funny that you say that many people. I
actually did have a sandpit when I grew up at
my home. I don't think that. I can't remember the
last time I've seen a sandpit. Yea, my producer, Tira,
she's got a sandpit. She's very smug Tyra on parenting.
She's like, we've got a sandpit. It means one of
(22:07):
those blue she means one of the blue shehell ones
I think you buy. My sandpit was literally an organic sand.
It was one of my My dad must have dug
it out and just filled it with I just had
like a it was like a long jump pit, but
it was a sandpit.
Speaker 3 (22:21):
I mean, of course, we had an old track to
tire I think an old tract to tire filled and
then the bait the middle filled up with sand that
we had to remember going to the beach with Dad
and getting sacks of sand to put into the to
the sandpit. So yeah, but but yeah, I don't many
people don't have them anymore, don't they.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
Yeah, Hey, look we're going to take some calls, and
we've got anna hello.
Speaker 3 (22:44):
Yes.
Speaker 5 (22:44):
Hello. I think it's really important to have your children
at home in those early years because it's not only
good for the children but a parents as well, and
you get a real close connection to them for the
rest of their life before they go out to preschool
(23:07):
and then school.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
Yeah, did you spend a lot of time with your
kids when you were when they were growing up?
Speaker 5 (23:15):
Yes, I was lucky. I was home and too always
and it was just fantastic to be with them and
enjoy their company. And I just think parents miss out
on so much when they pushed their children into preschool
too soon.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
Yeah. Do you think that there's a lot of and
do you think there's a lot more pressure on both
parents to be working though, because it's almost like I've
done a bit of talkback on this over the years,
and I've had calls from women, you know, with different opinions,
but some who felt that they said that they almost
felt that pressured that they because of the whole feminism
(23:57):
thing that she they had to go back to work
earlier when they really would have preferred to maybe have
another year or two at home.
Speaker 5 (24:05):
Yes, well that would be hard. Fortunately I didn't have
to go back to work at that stage, but I
did as soon as they reach to school.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
Did you okay? Yeah, but you didn't feel you're missing
out on the workforce. You're quite happy to be at home?
Speaker 5 (24:22):
Oh yes, yeah, I love love being at home the
two boys. It was fantastic, the best time of my life.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
Yeah, it's good to hear Anna, thanks for that, you know.
That's what I did ask Anna their google about the expectations.
And it is a tricky one because society's expectations have
lurched around on this a bit where you know, with
the various And this is without any sense of opinion
about it, but I know from speaking to women how
(24:51):
pushed and pulled they felt by the sort of societal
expectations of whether they should be at stay at home mums.
Then it was a time and state at home mums
were looked down on. I wonder if we're in an
era now where sta at home mums are to a
certain extent seen as the life uy ones now. And
I'm saying mums, and I know that you know it's
it's a gender specific of they stay at home dads
(25:12):
as well. But if we're just going to be honest,
the vast the majority of the parents who stay at
home usually are mums.
Speaker 3 (25:21):
Yeah, I also note danger Will Robinson, two men are
stepping into the area of.
Speaker 6 (25:30):
No.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
I don't mean it from that point of view.
Speaker 3 (25:31):
I mean, no, no, I should two men discuss feminism?
Speaker 1 (25:35):
Yeah? Yeah, Yeah. What I mean is I have a
job where I was doing music and also I started
doing talkback radio in the early years of my children's lives,
and as a music I was at home a lot
and I consider myself really really lucky when I look
back on that by accident lucky.
Speaker 3 (25:57):
Yeah, I agree. I think there's so many pressures now
for both parents to be in the workforce that it's
much perhaps more difficult, uh for for either parent and
needgers say many times it's women that are staying at home,
but it's I think there's it's more difficult to do
that now, and you have to make a clear and strong,
(26:20):
deliberate choice to do that, and that's got to come
up the cost of something. Maybe you have to maybe
hold off actually buying your first house because you go,
we're gonna, we're gonna we're not going to be able
to afford a mortgage. We'll just be having to rent
and you know, we're going to have our kids and
then buy, or lots of people hold off having kids
still later life now too, when they've got a bit
(26:41):
more stability under them. So that's a that's a trend
to that increasing age of parents having their first child
as there as they sort of get a bit more established.
And yeah, it's I think it's just tougher than it was,
you know, a generation ago.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
And I guess either decision has a price to pay.
For it, doesn't it because you know, we all, I
mean our we all want to That's the thing. It's
it's not only the question for a parent, but I wonder,
I think about my girls when they grow up and
they have careers, and if they have families, what would
my expectations or my hopes, sorry, not my expectations, what
(27:17):
would my hopes be? And my hope would be that
they could make the choice to do what they want
without it having major consequences.
Speaker 3 (27:24):
Yeah, yeah, I agree, because that we're starting to get
into the gender pay gap, right, and that women tend
to lay behind because they'd go out of the workforce
to have children and to be at home, and stereotypically
men don't do that so much and they continue on
in their career. And how do we make that a
kind of an equitable fear thing that that doesn't disadvantage anybody?
Speaker 1 (27:47):
But is that? Ohing? God, this is a dangerous part
of the conversation where you get yourself into trouble. So
I'm going to try and I'll stumble my way around this,
but Okay, this is what I mean to say, is
I do feel that there needs to be pushed back
against the idea that I had to stay home with
the kids as if. And this is one of the
things I worry about with the messages of society and
(28:09):
the arguments that somehow I was the loser because I
had to stay at home with kids. And I don't
mean I'm not many mums or dads, Okay, I'm just
talking that the parent who stayed at home with the children,
they're the lucky ones. Yeah, I think. And what I
get a bit annoyed that the idea that you know,
(28:30):
we lost out, I lost out because I had to
stay at home with the kids. Well, you shouldn't have
done it then, but you would then you'd be really complaining.
Speaker 3 (28:37):
I don't know you were from, you know, and the
call just before how much she enjoyed being at home
with her her boys when she when she was when
she was younger. But I agree, if you can't, if
it does cause you to have a chip on the shoulder,
maybe it's maybe it might be better not to stay
at home, because you can imagine how that kind of
could could sort of influence your daily interactions with your kids.
(28:57):
If it's something kind of you have to do and
you don't really want to be here.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
And well, I mean that's the thing we having. I mean,
I'm just sometimes wondering, do we do we need to
give the idea of parent or a bit of a break.
In fact, actually, if you're a parent, you know, lucky
you for one and two if you get to spend
time at home with them, maybe lucky you as well,
so long as you've got a bit of balance for
your sanity. Of course, you're actually happy to get take
(29:23):
your calls on this on eight hundred and eighty ten
eighty because guess what, I've got to take a break.
Time flies when you're having fun with Google Stephenson, one
of the subjects of the Dunedin study too. Maybe maybe
your theme music needs to be some music to do
with Dunedin. Probably one of those you know, look look blue,
go purple or something shows an age, doesn't it. You
know that one to twenty one minutes to Sex News Talks,
(29:47):
it'd be yes an apology from me. I called Google
Sutherland Google Stephenson, because I guess I remember that the
era of.
Speaker 3 (29:53):
That that's showing your.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
Age three three syllables starting with S, you know, is a.
Speaker 3 (30:02):
Very uncommon name, so that it's quite it's quite a
common thing that I get. I used I used AI
to help me with the theme tune, and it came
up with good Vibrations by from the Beach Boys.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
Oh okay, and you look, you look, I can see
that working for you. Okay, We're going to save that
one up. Good vibrations for Google, right, Google Sutherland, by
the way, let's go to Josh Hello.
Speaker 7 (30:32):
Yeah, hey guys, Hey Tim, Hey doogle. Great discussion. Hey,
just with our sort of you know, we're thinking about
our bias or our particular view of it. But I
found myself judging people who don't stay at home with
their kids because I've got a model in mind, you see,
(30:54):
and when that doesn't other people do something different, I'm like,
you know, so we all have that we judged our own.
We we do, we do. But I like the sound of,
to be honest with you, the mother being home with
the kid for the first three years, and perhaps even
(31:16):
if hey look at all black recently got a bit
of heat for going on maternity leave. My sort of
attitude around that is, why not spend the first three
months with your newborn if you're in that position.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
So when I hear that all taking time for paternity live.
I actually think lucky lucky him good on them.
Speaker 7 (31:41):
Yeah, yeah, exactly. There's got to be a bit of
possible avenues for role re versus two. But I would
like to sell kids at home with at least one
parent for the first three years and then perhaps yeah,
just go from there. But I'm no in favor of
(32:03):
newborn's being slung into care. I actually think Google was
there plunket doesn't release some information about potential brain injury
caused perhaps by kids going into oh yeah, a bit
(32:23):
too young and.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
Being denied that early bonding. Yeah, that is I don't know.
It's not something we're really getting.
Speaker 3 (32:28):
Into brain injury so much, but it can. It has
the potential to affect that kind of attachment relationship with
a parent. But yeah, I'm with you, Josh. You know,
first two or three years for a parent, one of
the parents at least to be at home. So Sweden
four hundred and eighty days of leave at eighty percent
of your normal pay. There you go for either parent.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
Lindle says, in ninety sixty eight ten, when I had
my first child, I was sacked from my insurance company
job because I was pregnant. Try that now, zero equality
in those days. Yes, that's worth pointing out the lack
of choice, which is it's the lack of choice gardless
of which generation you are that grinds, isn't it. Yeah,
Brian Hello.
Speaker 4 (33:11):
Years Hello, Hey. I was born in fifty one and
in those days it was it was called kindergarten. It
wasn't called pre school. It was called kindergarten, which I
would think is the kinder children's children children and gardens garden,
(33:35):
the child garden. Yes, and it was very much more
formal then than just preschool, you.
Speaker 1 (33:43):
Know, I was more formal. I thought.
Speaker 4 (33:49):
It was more institutional. You know, if you garden, you
you you were basically it was pre school, but it was.
It was very much more formal. You wouldn't seem to
me to be anyway. I never went there. I was
(34:09):
pulled up on the farm and we were just another laby.
And instead of having kindergarten, we had a maze paddic
which we used to go out well and picked the
maze u by hand, you know.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
And the company and the company of one of one
or other of your parents, I'm.
Speaker 4 (34:28):
Guessing obviously is but it was. It was was most interesting.
I just thought you don't hear the kindergarten.
Speaker 1 (34:42):
Yeah, no, you don't hear that name anymore. Actually, it's
it's the weird I used to use all the time.
Speaker 3 (34:47):
Yeah, yeah, I went to Kendy there there, there we
go is still out there. I'll tell you. I'll tell
you a story that will that will blanch you blanch
the socks I used to I went to kindy and
I used to walk. I used to walk home by
myself from Kendy when I was four, and it was
about was probably fifteen or twenty minutes or so. And
(35:10):
I can remember discovering that and saying, Mom, did you
much did I walk home by myself? And I was poor?
She said, oh, yep, the roads when Oh my goodness.
Speaker 1 (35:20):
Actually I still remember our housekeeper. You know, we had
and nanny company what the word was back then. But
somebody who used to look after me a couple of
mornings a week, and I had to give her directions
on how to get to kindergarten. And she got quite
cross with me because she thought I was deliberately leading
(35:41):
her around town just anywhere. But I wasn't. In fact,
she later on said, actually he did get quite because
the mum said where it was when she realized she
couldn't find it, and I'd only got to within a street,
which I thought was a four year old navigating iod
pretty well.
Speaker 4 (35:56):
But she's pretty good.
Speaker 1 (35:57):
I remember her looking at me, going, are you trying
to send me around the like I'm only four? I
haven't I haven't got anything.
Speaker 3 (36:04):
We've ended up sweet shop. How did that happen? I
don't know. I thought, that's not KNDy.
Speaker 4 (36:09):
But here we go.
Speaker 1 (36:11):
We'll come back with Robin and just to take it
as eleven and a half minutes to hong On. No,
we all got sports raps. We'll have to quickly take
Robin's call now Robin, Hello, Oh hi guys.
Speaker 5 (36:21):
Hi.
Speaker 6 (36:23):
I brought four kids up at home, just myself who
is a stay home mum, and we lived in all
sorts of places. It was more like camping for us
most of the time. This is in Australia, so we
we like, we didn't have TV, and we'd go to town
(36:45):
once a week and go to the library and bring
all sorts of bits and pieces back and what have you.
And it's actually really good for mum and the dad
when they're young, because you're young at heart. As well,
so you can play you know how to play. Yeah,
and that's really cool.
Speaker 4 (37:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (37:07):
So I've looked after my grandson one day a week.
Speaker 4 (37:12):
Loving that't you.
Speaker 6 (37:14):
Yeah. Well he's now seven, so I don't have to
do that now, but you could see that he's he
really related to having having me at home.
Speaker 4 (37:27):
You know it?
Speaker 1 (37:28):
Well another num Yeah, No, I mean it's really it is.
It is actually a nice it's worth reflecting on. You
know that you haven't drawn the short straw if you're
the one that gets to stay home sometimes, isn't it, Dougal.
Speaker 3 (37:40):
Yeah, And being able to play with your kids, as
Robin said, I think that's such a great thing, just
to be able to even if it's half an hour
a day. Actually that he asked about research, Well, that's
one of the things that research shows us. If you
can play with your child for at least twenty thirty
minutes a day, it doesn't matter if you're at home
with them or not, just being and playing, not directing them,
not telling them what to do, just being.
Speaker 1 (38:01):
On the table. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (38:03):
Great, that's really.
Speaker 1 (38:03):
Great, great information. Hey good, hey, great to chat to you,
as always doogle, we'll have that theme is ready for you.
Next time.
Speaker 3 (38:09):
All right, lovely, that's thanks.
Speaker 1 (38:11):
Yeah, that's Google Sutherland, not Google Stevenson. As I said
in the last break from the Umbrella Group, we'll be
back with the Sports Rap with Christopher Eve. Superman is
with us in news Talk Said B. Back in the
Bay for more from the weekend collective. Listen live to
News Talk Said B weekends from three pm, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Girlfriends: Trust Me Babe
When a group of women from all over the country realise they all dated the same prolific romance scammer they vow to bring him to justice. In this brand new season of global number 1 hit podcast, The Girlfriends, Anna Sinfield meets a group of funny, feisty, determined women who all had the misfortune of dating a mysterious man named Derek Alldred. Trust Me Babe is a story about the protective forces of gossip, gut instinct, and trusting your besties and the group of women who took matters into their own hands to take down a fraudster when no one else would listen. If you’re affected by any of the themes in this show, our charity partners NO MORE have available resources at https://www.nomore.org. To learn more about romance scams, and to access specialised support, visit https://fightcybercrime.org/ The Girlfriends: Trust Me Babe is produced by Novel for iHeartPodcasts. For more from Novel, visit https://novel.audio/. You can listen to new episodes of The Girlfriends: Trust Me Babe completely ad-free and 1 week early with an iHeart True Crime+ subscription, available exclusively on Apple Podcasts. Open your Apple Podcasts app, search for “iHeart True Crime+, and subscribe today!