September 28, 2024 • 34 mins
Parenting expert John Cowan joins Tim Beveridge on The Weekend Collective to discuss the importance of reading to children and how children books have changed over the years.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talk SEDB.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
And welcome back to the Weekend Collective. It's another hit
for my producer, Tyre, who likes to have theme related
music and with this is the Parent Squad And there
we go. Is this guns and Raises or bon Jovi
guns and Raises Sweet Child of Mine? I don't know
what the rest of the lyrics are, but the chorus
sounds very parent related, doesn't it. Anyway? Night if I
listening place to the lyrics, welcome back to the show.
(01:08):
That's The Parents Squad. I'm Tim Beverage. If you've missed
any of our previous hours, gosh, it's been quite a
rollicking show today. Great panel with Neva Reddy, Martin and
Brad Olson and a fantastic discussion also with Ed mckknight
just around the CGT and gosh it was passioned arguments.
I love it. That's what we're here for. You want
to share an argument with passion, don't we? Anyway? This
is the Parent Squad and my guest is well, he's
(01:29):
he's none other than friend of the show parenting expert
John Cowen. John, Good to see you.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
How are I'm great, great to be back in your
little broadcasting parlor.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
My little broadcasting parlor. Parla implies a slightly different sort
of daycareboard, doesn't It just implies some all of.
Speaker 3 (01:49):
These chiffon curtains that you've got around.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
The place, pink chiffon with a with a with a
sort of pink valure armchair, and that would would that's
what a parlor is to me.
Speaker 3 (01:59):
Yeah, yeah, that's right. Yeah, Well I'm just lying back
in the chase lunge that you've got and the.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Cups of tea and pictures of cats on the wall,
that's what a part of it.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
Just the decanter over by the lamp stand over, that's
the one.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Now we're going to kick it off with, just for
a bit of a change of pace. And also it
ties into something we were just talking about before we
came on air, but children's books and how they've changed,
because the books that I've read my kids bore no
resemblance to what I read when I was growing up.
But there was a story in what's been revealed the
(02:32):
last day or two that more than a third of
Whitkill's Kid's Top fifty books were actually written by new
Zealand authors and books like Harry McCleary topped the list yep.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
But still number one. I just checked before and yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
Number one. And so the quick question for you if
you're listening and Johnavan, I've got lots to talk about,
but I reckon there are certain books that are absolute
classics that if you're looking for a present for new
parents or something, there are some that it's almost you
know that maybe well not every child has has the
(03:08):
good fortune to be read to and have be introduced
to a love of books. But I know so many people.
You can talk to parents and we're all familiar with
certain titles such as The Gruffalo but overrelated overrated to me.
We're going on a bear hunt. We're going to catch
a big I mean, I can tell you the lyrics.
We're going on to be one bear hunt. We're going
to trip.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
Trap slows interesting. The books I was reading to my kids, yeah,
thirty years ago, are still on that list. Hungry Caterpillar
and the doctors use books and people and things like this,
and so you know, don't ever throw out your kids
books with your own kids, because your own kids are
going to be reading it to your grandkids.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
Yeah, So I would have loved, just love to hear
from you about what your kid's book was when you
were growing up, or what's your favorite Absolutely no fail.
Gift would be to a set of new parents. Give
us a call on eight hundred and eighty ten eighty.
But also why the other one is I've noticed I
was surprised that when I was reading to my kids
(04:07):
that how much books have changed because the subject matter
has got a bit more poos related there that there's
the the Mole who Knew It was none of his business,
which is a very cute book because he comes out
of the ground and there it was, PLoP and it
falls on his head, and the whole book is about
(04:27):
him going around talking to the different animals who did
this on my head? And it turns out to be
Boris the dog.
Speaker 4 (04:32):
Or something, and I was thinking it's on the Yeah,
that's definitely not the famous f probably for a couple
of decades, because the these authors have realized that hey,
good money to be made in basically bum and fart humor.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
Now I'm although that is it's kind of isn't getting
quite a little book? Isn't it that one?
Speaker 3 (04:52):
I don't know that particular one. I recently interviewed David Walliams,
who's written from forty three kids books, and I've read
a couple of them.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
That's quite prolific, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (05:03):
Sixty million copies, sixty million copies.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
Holy moll.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
By the way, he was a fascinating guy to talk about.
He was really and I went to a show last night.
It was very entertaining. Even if I may not have
been a top fan of Little Britain or Come Fly
with Me or as other shows, but as a live
entertainer he was. He was very entertaining. But it was interesting.
I pre recorded it and because we had painters in
(05:31):
the house working there, I retreated to my wardrobe and
was doing the recording in there and I said, I said,
I'm in my closet, and he sort of looked sideways
and went, I won't judge. We're doing a bike video.
I just thought, but he's a look as a person.
(05:53):
I thought he was quite is quite deep. He's quite
well motivated. I mean all the charity work he's done
and swimming the Channel, swimming I think one hundred and
forty miles down the Thames, swimming from Africa from Europe
to Africa raised millions of pounds for you know, read
those days work in Africa and so. But anyhow, what
(06:14):
was the stoke about. As children's books, there's definitely I
guess a poshtun would be a Chloe called flavor to
some of them. You know, there is a lot of
bum and fart humor in there. But the thing is,
if there is a secret probably to getting kids read,
it's let them read stuff they like. And if kids
(06:37):
like that, then that's good. You know, I don't think
there's anything that probably impacts a kid's ultimate career education success.
Then recreational reading research has showing that you can predict
pretty accurately how well a kid is going to do
at school just by the number of books they have
lying around in the home. And over school holidays some
(07:03):
are school holidays, kids drop back in their achievement academically
about a month, okay, you know, when they come back
to school, they're about a month behind what they were
at when they finished the year before, except for those
kids that recreationally read, and so, you know, it's if
you're really wanting your kids to do well in education,
(07:23):
which is probably indication of how well they're going to
do in life, get them a love of reading, you know,
read to them, read to them, and things like and
what's the best books of them to read? What they like? Yeah,
and so if it's comics, that's fine.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
You know, I was actually thinking, I was wondering what
actually makes it good? So for those introductory kids with
the books that you read to your children. Yeah, And
there are two in the story that I'm reading in
about the you know, the top fifty books for kids.
The two that actually are mentioned in there, which I
don't think they're kiwis actually so much. But oh there's
one mentioned, We're going on a Bear Hunt. And the
(07:59):
other one that's mentioned is Harry McClary. And the reason
I have a great affection for those is because I
enjoyed reading them great books to read to your kids,
and I used to do different voices to describe hearing mclary.
Then there was I had a voice for Bottomly.
Speaker 3 (08:13):
Yet know that.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
One of the books was well, one of the books
was all the different Dogs. And so I think Muff
and Maclay was Muff and Maclay like a bundle of
hay bits of Malerney was talked like that because of
sort of that damn bits of Lanney's skinny and Bonnie.
And then there was Schnitzevan Kram was obviously German because
he had, you know, German with a very large dumb
and you would have seen that found that little statues
(08:37):
and fountain down a toe wronger which has got all that.
That's right, that's wonderful. And of course Hercules Moss was
Hercules Moss because he's he's huge.
Speaker 3 (08:46):
But I knew a guy called with the surname mcleary
who was as bald as a billiard ball, who lived
in the same street as is that someone Donaldson who.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
Wrote Linley no hang on, no, no, no, no, no no,
suddenly suddenly drawn up the author Linley Dodd right.
Speaker 3 (09:06):
Close, who lived in the same street. And so you'd
wonder if you're a bald man called mclare with the
same name McClary and baldy mclaudy and no, no, but Clary,
and whether or not that was a little bit of
a taunt.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
Harryclary, the idea that she might have known him. And
I'm going to make my lead character after you, but
it's going to be very hairy of yeah, based on
your lack of her astuteness. So I mean, we'd love
to hear from you. What are the books that you
think are a great way to introduce your kids to reading,
or what were your favorite books when you were growing up.
The other one, just while I was talking about the
(09:42):
book that actually made me think what the hell was
there was a book called Dr Dog and Doctor Dog
Treats everyone in the house. This is about the woo's
and farting jokes and the triumph. The climax of the
story is, I think Granddad has eats a lot of
baked beans and he goes to the toilet and he
blows the roof off the house and it shows him
(10:04):
flying through the egg going we and I thought, my goodness,
books have changed since Famous five and Secret seven Enid Blyton.
Do you think Blyton would still work for kids these days?
I don't remember too much about it.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
Honestly, it would probably require a sort of a little
bit of an edit by the PC police, because it's
amazing how books have been edited. Like We've got some
old Beatrix Potter books and in them, Missus Rabbit sells
rabbit tobacco and when Peter Rabbit misbehaves he gets a
(10:36):
good thrashing. More modern versions, we've got her there, she's
selling rabbit herbs and he gets sent to bed without
his supper. Oh it's interesting how those the sort of
you know, just just tuned retuned it to modern sensibilities.
And do we want that? Maybe we do. I don't know.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
It's interesting, you know, case by case basis. But there
has been quite a sanitizing books. In fact, I can't
remember there was one author where there was actually a
bit of a pushback by doctors.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
Oh that's what the thing is. When you actually look
at some of that doctors Hu stuff that he did
in the nineteen thirties and forties and things, it was
let's just say, problematic, embodying the racial stereotypes of the time.
But yeah, the same with Roald Dahl, Role Dhal.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
You got into roll Dal. I don't know why, but
it was just never introduced to me by my parents.
I think I probably had lots of Secret seven and
Famous five and there was about it. Yeah, but no
literally DoD for me.
Speaker 3 (11:39):
Interesting when I think back to the books that I
was reading at primary school, often though chapter books like
Coral Island and Robert Louis Stevenson Books and Things, And
I read one recently and found, Jesus is hard work?
Was I really reading this stuff? Was I really reading
Lord of the Rings and Things? At primary school?
Speaker 2 (11:57):
And yes I was?
Speaker 3 (11:58):
And so the thing is, don't baby your kids into thinking, oh, well,
they won't understand what half the words are. Can work
it out. They can jump over the words they don't
understand and work it out. And honestly, it stretches and
grows brains like nothing else. You know, they said, what's
that old phrase? Outside of a dog, a book is
(12:18):
a man's best friend, and inside of a dog it's
too dark to read.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
Anyway, the I have, I have what are you smoking?
Speaker 3 (12:28):
What I'm saying is just teach your kids that the
lover of reading model. Let them see you curling up
with a book and rather than just always staring at lass,
let them know that there's a joy in books.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
I think to be by the way, we'd love to
take your course if you like to join us on
the show one hundred and eighty ten eighty. What are
your favorite children's books? Or if you were going to
give a family or new parents some books to introduce
their kids to reading and the love of parents. I mean,
I think that's one of my fondest memories is making
the time to light down next to my girls while
they're going to sleep and read them the books and
(13:02):
they're just soaking it up. By Yeah, what are your
books that you would that you would that you remember?
Give us a call on.
Speaker 3 (13:09):
That and start early, even when your kids are babies
and they're just interested in what the corner of the
book tastes like, you know, just cuddled up next to you,
hearing your voice. It'll introduce and it'll create a love
affair of books for the aline.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
And I'm going to go off in the break. We're
going to take a break now, so you can give
us a call if you like. If we need to.
We may talk a little bit about truancy. But the
first thing we're going to cap off the rank is
children's books. Your favorites that you think the absolute must reads.
The expression I have it's like a rock song, you know,
let's play some bangers, But what are the bangers of
great kiddies books? Eight hundred eighty, ten eighty. It's twenty
(13:46):
past five news talks. He'd be, well, do you want
to be forever young? Well? It's probably not if you're
(14:07):
going to be a parent, because that's the time you
grow up. This is the Parents Squad. My guest is
John Cown talking about children's books. What are the absolute
I'm trying to think of the expression, what's the what
are the must buys? That's it. What are the must
reads or the must buys if you're a parent, or
to get your kids a love of reading. And we've
got some calls we're going to get onto right now.
Pete goday O.
Speaker 5 (14:27):
Gooday, guys secure. Yeah, but John, I just wanted to say,
I've got a ten year old grandson. So over the
past five years probably has been at school. I've been
introducing them to various books and Moldy meuthrology. Yeah, he's
quite he quote a lot of knows them off by
(14:47):
hate and since his team. Now I've introduced them to
a book by wood Agadener mcgaddin, The twenty eighth Married Battalion,
in which I've showed them the photographs of real storm
tour hendsome men, moldy men in the uniform working in
unity to genemy and yeah, I just think now that
(15:11):
I'll share more. Well, do you read books? Do you
read to him, Well, he's good, he's a good he's
a really good confident reader. One of the great things
in English.
Speaker 3 (15:25):
One of the great things you're doing there is also
cementing into his into his head and heart, the idea
of his identity. There's the fact that he comes from
a community that served in those ways like in the
Married Battalion and uh and heading forward into school, that
sense of pride and who he is and where he's
come from is going to do him a great deal
of credit.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
Now, thanks for your call, Pete, and uh Phil get
how you going.
Speaker 6 (15:52):
Not too bad?
Speaker 7 (15:52):
Thanks?
Speaker 6 (15:53):
How are you good?
Speaker 2 (15:53):
Thanks?
Speaker 6 (15:55):
Excellent? Excellent. And to your guest there, yeah, John, Sorry, sorry,
I got bad memory problems with names and things.
Speaker 3 (16:04):
Look, I forget who I have the time toom is
actually so no worries.
Speaker 6 (16:10):
I'm not a parent, but I'll be listening to the show.
And just made me think and remember how when I
was a young fello, because I'm fifty six now, and
I used to belong to a thing called the Lucky
I used to be a member and belonged to thing
called the Lucky book Club, and I used to love
and get made me think I used to get so
(16:31):
excited because what would happen. You'd get a list of books,
you know, sent to you, and you'd order them so
and I get so excited waiting for the books that
I ordered to come. Yeah, when I when I was
a kid.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
Yeah, what were your favorite books you enjoyed reading on
when you were growing up?
Speaker 6 (16:49):
Well, the thing I was going to say too, was
like I read everything from Clifford the Big Red Dog
to Where the Wild Things Grow, which is still around
me that one, yeah, yeah, to The Hungry Catipullar to
The Wombles. And then the other thing that happened was
I also started reading books that I felt very adult
(17:10):
and very big, like a big I'm an adult now
sort of thing, because I started reading books probably of
VARs in my age, like two Thousand Leagues Under the
Sea by Joel Burns, you know. So, yeah, it gave
me a great grounding and that sort of thing. And
then I'll hear a McCleary, you know Donaldson's theory. I
think that's what threw you when you're trying to think
of the author and you were thinking of Donaldson.
Speaker 3 (17:30):
But the.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
Good on your felt actually that's right. It was Donalson'
therea and it was Linley Donald, who I've actually met
as well. In fact, I met her in Taranga because
I was with Jackie Clark, who knows her quite well,
and they were meeting for lunch action meta and it's.
Speaker 3 (17:49):
Their in real life actually too.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
She was a great guest, absolutely lovely, lovely woman. In fact,
I think we the cafe where Jackie met up caught
up with her in my memory because it was in Taranga,
was actually just across the road from the statues of
all the dogs. It's anyway, I wonder if she hangs
around it going.
Speaker 3 (18:09):
I created that character.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
Possibly probably she doesn't have a ego that I do.
Of course I've just realized, of course rolled down. I
actually didn't read this as a kid. But Charlie and
the Chocolate Factory is a famous old sort of story.
There's another. Did you ever read Charlie in the Chocolate Factory?
Speaker 3 (18:26):
I watch the movie, But the thing is the original
stories of that anyhow, that would be a sidetrack when
we were talking about rejigging stories. I mean, the Plumpers
were a tribe of Africans that they brought in as
basically indentured or slave labor. And and so by the
time the movie came around, they definitely changed it to
something different. But it's interesting how values were. Well, they
(18:48):
changed it to plumpers. It must have been something else. No,
I think they called them that, but they were a
yeah in the original book. So it's interesting how sensitivities change.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
I'm pretty sure in the original movie there polympers, but
they were but they were purple.
Speaker 3 (19:03):
They had to change into sort of fictitious characters.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
Yes, little green or purple people. That's right. I can't remember. Yeah,
did you actually? By the way, the Johnny Depp remac
I never really saw that, but I sometimes think sometimes
the classics are the way to go. Yeah, mind you.
That was probably around the time that Johnny Depp suddenly
sort of became maybe less appealing to some people. Right,
let's take some more calls on it.
Speaker 6 (19:26):
Jan, Hello, I've heard him.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
And what's John?
Speaker 2 (19:31):
That's John John. I thought you were wed famous in
New Zealand.
Speaker 7 (19:37):
Oh, that's good.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
Now.
Speaker 7 (19:41):
I used to work at a private girls school and
we went through a major drama and at night the
girls had trouble sleeping and there are any young little
girls and they had nightmares and sleepwalking and all kinds
of things. So I decided to read them a story
(20:04):
night before they went to bed, and I found this
book that I bought in Canada about the early settlers
family in Canada. It was a true story, and they
sat enthralled as I read it, and it helped them
get through all this reading. Kids there lovely stories.
Speaker 3 (20:27):
It would take so many boxes for them, you know,
just the reassurance of reassurance of a you know, an
adult presence, but also you know that story is probably
still living in their heads.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
And Jan has just reminded me Chase. I went to
boarding school when I was eleven and twelve for a
couple of years, and the principal was the headmaster, and
it was kind of an old It was in Hamilton,
but it was modeled on the old English preps. Probably
had a rinter. Oh well, there's not capital.
Speaker 3 (20:56):
It's a strict school. I would sort out a lot
of these discipline brothers, corporal punishment.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
Sorry, but the principal mister Marshall, the headmaster, Mister Marshall
used to read so the Borders. I think it was
on a Sunday night. Whe'd sometimes have a movie up
at the in the one of the in the hall
sort of things. There was a room at the back
where we're all squeezing. But he would read to us
from the Hobbit. And the art of reading a story
(21:24):
is an absolute it is. There is an art to it.
Either that or you just have to read it and
absolutely inhabit it. But he had us and on to
a room of one hundred boys transfixed, especially when the
Hobbit that got to Golum, and just even the way
he did. Gollum's voice was so good that when Andy
(21:46):
Serkis did when they did the movie and Andy Serkis
did the voice, I was like, that is nowhere near
as good as mister Marshall's. He had nailed Golum. And
I mean, Andy Serkis nice performance, Shane. Mister Marshall wasn't
available for the movie because his voice. It was just
in the art of listening being read to is quituite
quite something, isn't it?
Speaker 3 (22:07):
Well, that's triggered a memory of me. Mister Charteris at
at my intermediate school read us from the Hobbit as well,
and and again it was the thing I remember was
in those caves and the precious Yeah, it was. It's
amazing that that that girl's school story and everything like that.
(22:27):
You get good at reading stories. I can remember that
the last story I read to one of my kids
was the story of going to Antarctica and get stuck
in the ice.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
What was it called the.
Speaker 3 (22:41):
Yeah, no idea, no idea Shackleton's story.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
I didn't know you did know?
Speaker 3 (22:47):
I know too, but it a fella that fell fell
off the convey about there. But I mean these stories,
they they're great fun to read, but they also they
do something for your relationship with your kids too.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
Absolutely right, Let's let's keep the conversation going.
Speaker 8 (23:01):
Jane, Hello, Oh hi, I'm a retired teacher.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
Uh huh.
Speaker 8 (23:08):
And all through there's always been crisis in the world, right,
So to give the kids a feeling that they're capable,
I always read survival stories. And I read like The
Silver Sword by Surelia, which was about a kid in
(23:31):
World War Two and how he survived and how these
other kids got together and how they helped each other.
So many values came in and with survival stories there
were there was humor there too, and and you know,
and they always survived.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
Let kids know that you can get through triumph adversity.
The stories of optimism.
Speaker 8 (23:58):
And absolutely there's another one, Hatchet. I didn't like Hatchet
Winter because that was just made up and an actual fact.
He really wouldn't have survived in Canada in the wilderness
a little boy of about eleven.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
And actually, I'll be honest, that's why I struggled with
the Diary of Anne Frank, because I knew that the
I mean, I found that. I can't remember a lot
about the diary, but I just remember being a bit
depressed by the fact that it didn't end too well
in terms of Ann Frank.
Speaker 8 (24:27):
But yeah, so there was you know, and also the
key c a y it was about a boat.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
That was.
Speaker 3 (24:37):
I haven't heard of any of these stories. Oh does
that sound like a great idea?
Speaker 8 (24:43):
You see, the thing is because of about ten, eleven, twelve,
they're realizing they're part of the world, and they're reading that,
they're seeing the news, they're actually taking it in and
it's it's a frightening world for some Well, you know,
it depends how you look at it. I like to
think life to laugh and you just you just pack
(25:03):
as much fun as you can into a short place
of time as you can. Yeah, but kids need to
know that shit can happen, but you can get through.
So that's why anyway, I'm old ancient now, but that's
what I always read, and I read it to my
children too. You know when you look at the famous
five and people poo poo that, but that is a
(25:24):
survival story too. Those kids face things, they got through.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
Yeah, good stuff. Hey, thanks Jane. I've got to keep
moving because we've got lots of carse lining up. Actually,
the other one was there are some certain children's books,
and I think even programs sometimes where there are two levels.
The kids enjoy it on a basic level, but there's
stuff that the adults can laugh at as well that
goes over the kid's head. And I wish I could
remember those books because it means that as an adult,
(25:49):
you enjoy reading them because there's other sort of layers
to it that you can laugh at while the kids
are just enjoying the basic store.
Speaker 3 (25:57):
I think that's probably what Jane was getting at, that
there would be an entertaining story that's going along, but
some bigger values that will shake out of it. The
other thing is that broaden their world so much. I
mean TV doesn't do this, It compresses it down. But
and kids end up knowing everything about the last fifty
minutes and nothing about the last fifty years, whereas these
books broaden their idea of the world and now it
(26:18):
can be lived.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
Of course, was Matilda rolled doll as well?
Speaker 3 (26:22):
Am I thinking?
Speaker 2 (26:22):
Oh ok, sure, yeah, gosh a fascinating man. He must
have been rolled down. That tells everything I expected as well.
But something for adults.
Speaker 3 (26:29):
Actually, his autobiographies Boy and Going Solo. I think it's
called solo. That great books and probably worth reading the
kids do.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
Right, let's sack some more calls Dale High.
Speaker 9 (26:41):
Oh hello, look, I'm an ex librarian, children's librarian, an
ex kindergarten teacher, and now a seventy seven year old
going blind. He's always had a great love of reading.
But in my day when I first started off with
his fairy tales and nursrhymes, oh yes.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
Underella and Sleeping Beauty and all that sort of stuff.
Speaker 9 (27:03):
Yes, all that sort of stuff, and his got it
had history. They told stories, you know, you could actually
talk about what really happened. Do you think about this?
And it's with that lovely sense of rhythm, Because Patroldren,
a lot of reading is about.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
Ryan if you were giving, say, if you were giving
a gift to some to a child with the expectation
that their parents would read them read to them.
Speaker 9 (27:26):
It's the number of Verry McCleary's stories. Because I know
I was sitting next to this lady at an airport.
I think I've seen that lady. I think I know her.
So we had this lovely chat in them and I
got on the plane I realized it was herne And
(27:47):
I just think that I've sent those sorts of books
all over the world to you know, nieces and nephews
and things over the time. But reading, as you were saying,
it's actually your interpretation of what you hear, not somebody
else playing and sting up a thing on a TV
or something like that. Even just great creating the theater
(28:10):
of the mind, and it is you know and encouraging,
you know, you know you go to well luckily some kindergartens.
Do you still have librarians that come in and talk
to the children about books?
Speaker 2 (28:22):
Well, actually, the public libraries have have have have book reading.
I think most many public libraries have. I'man the one
and where I live Saint Heleia, as I assum to remember,
there are a couple of mornings where you'd go down
with your with your with your little one and and
that sit down while they got read to by. It
was a special reading story. Readings time was great time.
Speaker 9 (28:42):
Yes, it's lovely. But I'll tell you something that is
quite amusing as being a reader. I thought, well, I'll
go and get the books that you know somebody else
reads to you. And I now know why children go
to sleep when you're reading to them. It's because of
they're very soothing tone. It's not quite like reading it yourself.
But well, lovely love the discussion on you.
Speaker 2 (29:04):
I forgot Scarfaced Claw, the Tough and Tom in Town.
That's right. I got through all the voices pretty much
earlier on are you checking the when I googled who
are the dogs? Who have I forgotten because there were
other ones? But they're about six.
Speaker 3 (29:15):
I think I see them all every morning down at
Long Bay Beach.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
Ah in reality. That's right. Right, Let's carry on dinner, sello.
Speaker 10 (29:25):
Yes, good evening, John, good evening, and John.
Speaker 3 (29:31):
Oh you're just oh, thank you. It's nice to be remembered.
Speaker 10 (29:36):
Some years ago, when my kids were intermediate school, they
went on a camp and I was asked to go
along as the male guardian or would work as all ladies,
and Shed thirteen were all the boys and boy they were,
so I was put in charge of Third thirteen and
they wouldn't go to sleep, and they jumped up and
(29:57):
everything else. And I went around there and one of
them said, you in the navy, and I said, yep,
can you tell us a navy story? And I actually
was really rereading a book called Above Us the Way,
a Classic Submarine, so I read them an article there
where they were going to dive and everything else, and
they said, and when do they die do they make
a sound? And I suggest They said that sounder Clackson
(30:18):
and it goes a luga, a louga, And this just
stunned them, a wrong thing to do, Dennis, for the
rest of the camp, walking.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
Every time I saw you.
Speaker 10 (30:33):
Months later, I was at the school watching a sport game,
had the team stopped and all turned and looked at
me and all went.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
That sounds like that you had a positive because they
don't tease you and joke about those things unless they're
fond of you, Dennis. So they must have.
Speaker 10 (30:52):
Ended up okay, I was. They were there were regular kids,
have woked ten eleven and that love but the ladies
who couldn't control them and sent me around there and yeah,
so who became inverther Comma's mates by the end of
that one.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
Excellent that I like that, Dennis, Actually that is quite funny,
just in terms of obviously you made quite an impression
with us imperson nation of the tax. And by the way,
it's you're talking about the sanitization of boxes is just
on what's on exactly that topic. But you wonder what
sometimes it's trying to work out those stories you read
to kids, because one of the purposes of stories is
(31:31):
also to inform kids that I don't know, sometimes wonder
if we sanitize things too much. For instance, the Brother's
Grim Boy. Have you read The Brother's Grim? Stuff is terrible,
but there are like the Boy who Quite Cried Wolf.
I think that's sanitized to he got in trouble, but
in the real Boy who Cried Wolf, he got killed
by the wolf. And I think there was a purpose
(31:53):
to those stories that it was to let pick kids
know that, you know, life is great, but also you
need to pay attention to certain sort of messages about
you know, living safely and stuff, and back in the
times when Better on the Wolf was that was a
real thing, wasn't it.
Speaker 3 (32:11):
Yeah, I'm ambivalent. I don't know. I don't really don't know.
I can remember reading a sort of an adventure book
that had been written earlier in the twentieth century, and
I remember a line where there was a person of
mixed heritage and there's gutten the hero going, you can
never trust these coffee and cream types, and I'm just
(32:32):
sort of thinking, goodness, do you want to sanitize you
to keep attitudes and ideas like that in the mouth
of the hero? And I don't think we do. That
was something representative of the time that I.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
Agree with you. I think there are salutary tales about
just that there are good lessons to bel but not
those ones.
Speaker 3 (32:54):
So yeah, there is a place for it. But that's
why I'm saying I'm ambivalent. But reading those old hideous stories,
you know, children's stories from the eighteenth century, you.
Speaker 2 (33:05):
Know Brothers Grimm and thinking that you know they are grim.
Oh no, I remember I was fascinated because I was
looking at I think it was because there were certain
fairy tales that get sort of disney fired and I
was interested, and I looked up the what's the original
story from this particular fairy tale and it was certainly
I think that's where the word grim comes from, because
it was I won't even say it on air, but
(33:27):
what happens to one of the victims in the story.
There's some horrendous stuff in there, so don't get them
the unedited brothers Brothers grim would be the thing. Anyway. Hey,
thank you so much for everyone for joining in on
the conversation this afternoon. Time flies when you're having fun.
Speaker 3 (33:42):
John, It's been fun, nice talking to you.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
Excellent, and we'll be back to rap Sport in just
a moment. I think Jason Pine's going to be joining
us from the Cake Tin, so we'll be back in
just a moment. It's coming up to seventeen minutes to six.
Speaker 1 (33:57):
For more from the Weekend Collective, listen live to news
Talks it'd be weekends from three pm, or follow the
podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talk SEDB.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
And welcome back to the Weekend Collective. It's another hit
for my producer, Tyre, who likes to have theme related
music and with this is the Parent Squad And there
we go. Is this guns and Raises or bon Jovi
guns and Raises Sweet Child of Mine? I don't know
what the rest of the lyrics are, but the chorus
sounds very parent related, doesn't it. Anyway? Night if I
listening place to the lyrics, welcome back to the show.
(01:08):
That's The Parents Squad. I'm Tim Beverage. If you've missed
any of our previous hours, gosh, it's been quite a
rollicking show today. Great panel with Neva Reddy, Martin and
Brad Olson and a fantastic discussion also with Ed mckknight
just around the CGT and gosh it was passioned arguments.
I love it. That's what we're here for. You want
to share an argument with passion, don't we? Anyway? This
is the Parent Squad and my guest is well, he's
(01:29):
he's none other than friend of the show parenting expert
John Cowen. John, Good to see you.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
How are I'm great, great to be back in your
little broadcasting parlor.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
My little broadcasting parlor. Parla implies a slightly different sort
of daycareboard, doesn't It just implies some all of.
Speaker 3 (01:49):
These chiffon curtains that you've got around.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
The place, pink chiffon with a with a with a
sort of pink valure armchair, and that would would that's
what a parlor is to me.
Speaker 3 (01:59):
Yeah, yeah, that's right. Yeah, Well I'm just lying back
in the chase lunge that you've got and the.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Cups of tea and pictures of cats on the wall,
that's what a part of it.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
Just the decanter over by the lamp stand over, that's
the one.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Now we're going to kick it off with, just for
a bit of a change of pace. And also it
ties into something we were just talking about before we
came on air, but children's books and how they've changed,
because the books that I've read my kids bore no
resemblance to what I read when I was growing up.
But there was a story in what's been revealed the
(02:32):
last day or two that more than a third of
Whitkill's Kid's Top fifty books were actually written by new
Zealand authors and books like Harry McCleary topped the list yep.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
But still number one. I just checked before and yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
Number one. And so the quick question for you if
you're listening and Johnavan, I've got lots to talk about,
but I reckon there are certain books that are absolute
classics that if you're looking for a present for new
parents or something, there are some that it's almost you
know that maybe well not every child has has the
(03:08):
good fortune to be read to and have be introduced
to a love of books. But I know so many people.
You can talk to parents and we're all familiar with
certain titles such as The Gruffalo but overrelated overrated to me.
We're going on a bear hunt. We're going to catch
a big I mean, I can tell you the lyrics.
We're going on to be one bear hunt. We're going
to trip.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
Trap slows interesting. The books I was reading to my kids, yeah,
thirty years ago, are still on that list. Hungry Caterpillar
and the doctors use books and people and things like this,
and so you know, don't ever throw out your kids
books with your own kids, because your own kids are
going to be reading it to your grandkids.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
Yeah, So I would have loved, just love to hear
from you about what your kid's book was when you
were growing up, or what's your favorite Absolutely no fail.
Gift would be to a set of new parents. Give
us a call on eight hundred and eighty ten eighty.
But also why the other one is I've noticed I
was surprised that when I was reading to my kids
(04:07):
that how much books have changed because the subject matter
has got a bit more poos related there that there's
the the Mole who Knew It was none of his business,
which is a very cute book because he comes out
of the ground and there it was, PLoP and it
falls on his head, and the whole book is about
(04:27):
him going around talking to the different animals who did
this on my head? And it turns out to be
Boris the dog.
Speaker 4 (04:32):
Or something, and I was thinking it's on the Yeah,
that's definitely not the famous f probably for a couple
of decades, because the these authors have realized that hey,
good money to be made in basically bum and fart humor.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
Now I'm although that is it's kind of isn't getting
quite a little book? Isn't it that one?
Speaker 3 (04:52):
I don't know that particular one. I recently interviewed David Walliams,
who's written from forty three kids books, and I've read
a couple of them.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
That's quite prolific, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (05:03):
Sixty million copies, sixty million copies.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
Holy moll.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
By the way, he was a fascinating guy to talk about.
He was really and I went to a show last night.
It was very entertaining. Even if I may not have
been a top fan of Little Britain or Come Fly
with Me or as other shows, but as a live
entertainer he was. He was very entertaining. But it was interesting.
I pre recorded it and because we had painters in
(05:31):
the house working there, I retreated to my wardrobe and
was doing the recording in there and I said, I said,
I'm in my closet, and he sort of looked sideways
and went, I won't judge. We're doing a bike video.
I just thought, but he's a look as a person.
(05:53):
I thought he was quite is quite deep. He's quite
well motivated. I mean all the charity work he's done
and swimming the Channel, swimming I think one hundred and
forty miles down the Thames, swimming from Africa from Europe
to Africa raised millions of pounds for you know, read
those days work in Africa and so. But anyhow, what
(06:14):
was the stoke about. As children's books, there's definitely I
guess a poshtun would be a Chloe called flavor to
some of them. You know, there is a lot of
bum and fart humor in there. But the thing is,
if there is a secret probably to getting kids read,
it's let them read stuff they like. And if kids
(06:37):
like that, then that's good. You know, I don't think
there's anything that probably impacts a kid's ultimate career education success.
Then recreational reading research has showing that you can predict
pretty accurately how well a kid is going to do
at school just by the number of books they have
lying around in the home. And over school holidays some
(07:03):
are school holidays, kids drop back in their achievement academically
about a month, okay, you know, when they come back
to school, they're about a month behind what they were
at when they finished the year before, except for those
kids that recreationally read, and so, you know, it's if
you're really wanting your kids to do well in education,
(07:23):
which is probably indication of how well they're going to
do in life, get them a love of reading, you know,
read to them, read to them, and things like and
what's the best books of them to read? What they like? Yeah,
and so if it's comics, that's fine.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
You know, I was actually thinking, I was wondering what
actually makes it good? So for those introductory kids with
the books that you read to your children. Yeah, And
there are two in the story that I'm reading in
about the you know, the top fifty books for kids.
The two that actually are mentioned in there, which I
don't think they're kiwis actually so much. But oh there's
one mentioned, We're going on a Bear Hunt. And the
(07:59):
other one that's mentioned is Harry McClary. And the reason
I have a great affection for those is because I
enjoyed reading them great books to read to your kids,
and I used to do different voices to describe hearing mclary.
Then there was I had a voice for Bottomly.
Speaker 3 (08:13):
Yet know that.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
One of the books was well, one of the books
was all the different Dogs. And so I think Muff
and Maclay was Muff and Maclay like a bundle of
hay bits of Malerney was talked like that because of
sort of that damn bits of Lanney's skinny and Bonnie.
And then there was Schnitzevan Kram was obviously German because
he had, you know, German with a very large dumb
and you would have seen that found that little statues
(08:37):
and fountain down a toe wronger which has got all that.
That's right, that's wonderful. And of course Hercules Moss was
Hercules Moss because he's he's huge.
Speaker 3 (08:46):
But I knew a guy called with the surname mcleary
who was as bald as a billiard ball, who lived
in the same street as is that someone Donaldson who.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
Wrote Linley no hang on, no, no, no, no, no no,
suddenly suddenly drawn up the author Linley Dodd right.
Speaker 3 (09:06):
Close, who lived in the same street. And so you'd
wonder if you're a bald man called mclare with the
same name McClary and baldy mclaudy and no, no, but Clary,
and whether or not that was a little bit of
a taunt.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
Harryclary, the idea that she might have known him. And
I'm going to make my lead character after you, but
it's going to be very hairy of yeah, based on
your lack of her astuteness. So I mean, we'd love
to hear from you. What are the books that you
think are a great way to introduce your kids to reading,
or what were your favorite books when you were growing up.
The other one, just while I was talking about the
(09:42):
book that actually made me think what the hell was
there was a book called Dr Dog and Doctor Dog
Treats everyone in the house. This is about the woo's
and farting jokes and the triumph. The climax of the
story is, I think Granddad has eats a lot of
baked beans and he goes to the toilet and he
blows the roof off the house and it shows him
(10:04):
flying through the egg going we and I thought, my goodness,
books have changed since Famous five and Secret seven Enid Blyton.
Do you think Blyton would still work for kids these days?
I don't remember too much about it.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
Honestly, it would probably require a sort of a little
bit of an edit by the PC police, because it's
amazing how books have been edited. Like We've got some
old Beatrix Potter books and in them, Missus Rabbit sells
rabbit tobacco and when Peter Rabbit misbehaves he gets a
(10:36):
good thrashing. More modern versions, we've got her there, she's
selling rabbit herbs and he gets sent to bed without
his supper. Oh it's interesting how those the sort of
you know, just just tuned retuned it to modern sensibilities.
And do we want that? Maybe we do. I don't know.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
It's interesting, you know, case by case basis. But there
has been quite a sanitizing books. In fact, I can't
remember there was one author where there was actually a
bit of a pushback by doctors.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
Oh that's what the thing is. When you actually look
at some of that doctors Hu stuff that he did
in the nineteen thirties and forties and things, it was
let's just say, problematic, embodying the racial stereotypes of the time.
But yeah, the same with Roald Dahl, Role Dhal.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
You got into roll Dal. I don't know why, but
it was just never introduced to me by my parents.
I think I probably had lots of Secret seven and
Famous five and there was about it. Yeah, but no
literally DoD for me.
Speaker 3 (11:39):
Interesting when I think back to the books that I
was reading at primary school, often though chapter books like
Coral Island and Robert Louis Stevenson Books and Things, And
I read one recently and found, Jesus is hard work?
Was I really reading this stuff? Was I really reading
Lord of the Rings and Things? At primary school?
Speaker 2 (11:57):
And yes I was?
Speaker 3 (11:58):
And so the thing is, don't baby your kids into thinking, oh, well,
they won't understand what half the words are. Can work
it out. They can jump over the words they don't
understand and work it out. And honestly, it stretches and
grows brains like nothing else. You know, they said, what's
that old phrase? Outside of a dog, a book is
(12:18):
a man's best friend, and inside of a dog it's
too dark to read.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
Anyway, the I have, I have what are you smoking?
Speaker 3 (12:28):
What I'm saying is just teach your kids that the
lover of reading model. Let them see you curling up
with a book and rather than just always staring at lass,
let them know that there's a joy in books.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
I think to be by the way, we'd love to
take your course if you like to join us on
the show one hundred and eighty ten eighty. What are
your favorite children's books? Or if you were going to
give a family or new parents some books to introduce
their kids to reading and the love of parents. I mean,
I think that's one of my fondest memories is making
the time to light down next to my girls while
they're going to sleep and read them the books and
(13:02):
they're just soaking it up. By Yeah, what are your
books that you would that you would that you remember?
Give us a call on.
Speaker 3 (13:09):
That and start early, even when your kids are babies
and they're just interested in what the corner of the
book tastes like, you know, just cuddled up next to you,
hearing your voice. It'll introduce and it'll create a love
affair of books for the aline.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
And I'm going to go off in the break. We're
going to take a break now, so you can give
us a call if you like. If we need to.
We may talk a little bit about truancy. But the
first thing we're going to cap off the rank is
children's books. Your favorites that you think the absolute must reads.
The expression I have it's like a rock song, you know,
let's play some bangers, But what are the bangers of
great kiddies books? Eight hundred eighty, ten eighty. It's twenty
(13:46):
past five news talks. He'd be, well, do you want
to be forever young? Well? It's probably not if you're
(14:07):
going to be a parent, because that's the time you
grow up. This is the Parents Squad. My guest is
John Cown talking about children's books. What are the absolute
I'm trying to think of the expression, what's the what
are the must buys? That's it. What are the must
reads or the must buys if you're a parent, or
to get your kids a love of reading. And we've
got some calls we're going to get onto right now.
Pete goday O.
Speaker 5 (14:27):
Gooday, guys secure. Yeah, but John, I just wanted to say,
I've got a ten year old grandson. So over the
past five years probably has been at school. I've been
introducing them to various books and Moldy meuthrology. Yeah, he's
quite he quote a lot of knows them off by
(14:47):
hate and since his team. Now I've introduced them to
a book by wood Agadener mcgaddin, The twenty eighth Married Battalion,
in which I've showed them the photographs of real storm
tour hendsome men, moldy men in the uniform working in
unity to genemy and yeah, I just think now that
(15:11):
I'll share more. Well, do you read books? Do you
read to him, Well, he's good, he's a good he's
a really good confident reader. One of the great things
in English.
Speaker 3 (15:25):
One of the great things you're doing there is also
cementing into his into his head and heart, the idea
of his identity. There's the fact that he comes from
a community that served in those ways like in the
Married Battalion and uh and heading forward into school, that
sense of pride and who he is and where he's
come from is going to do him a great deal
of credit.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
Now, thanks for your call, Pete, and uh Phil get
how you going.
Speaker 6 (15:52):
Not too bad?
Speaker 7 (15:52):
Thanks?
Speaker 6 (15:53):
How are you good?
Speaker 2 (15:53):
Thanks?
Speaker 6 (15:55):
Excellent? Excellent. And to your guest there, yeah, John, Sorry, sorry,
I got bad memory problems with names and things.
Speaker 3 (16:04):
Look, I forget who I have the time toom is
actually so no worries.
Speaker 6 (16:10):
I'm not a parent, but I'll be listening to the show.
And just made me think and remember how when I
was a young fello, because I'm fifty six now, and
I used to belong to a thing called the Lucky
I used to be a member and belonged to thing
called the Lucky book Club, and I used to love
and get made me think I used to get so
(16:31):
excited because what would happen. You'd get a list of books,
you know, sent to you, and you'd order them so
and I get so excited waiting for the books that
I ordered to come. Yeah, when I when I was
a kid.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
Yeah, what were your favorite books you enjoyed reading on
when you were growing up?
Speaker 6 (16:49):
Well, the thing I was going to say too, was
like I read everything from Clifford the Big Red Dog
to Where the Wild Things Grow, which is still around
me that one, yeah, yeah, to The Hungry Catipullar to
The Wombles. And then the other thing that happened was
I also started reading books that I felt very adult
(17:10):
and very big, like a big I'm an adult now
sort of thing, because I started reading books probably of
VARs in my age, like two Thousand Leagues Under the
Sea by Joel Burns, you know. So, yeah, it gave
me a great grounding and that sort of thing. And
then I'll hear a McCleary, you know Donaldson's theory. I
think that's what threw you when you're trying to think
of the author and you were thinking of Donaldson.
Speaker 3 (17:30):
But the.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
Good on your felt actually that's right. It was Donalson'
therea and it was Linley Donald, who I've actually met
as well. In fact, I met her in Taranga because
I was with Jackie Clark, who knows her quite well,
and they were meeting for lunch action meta and it's.
Speaker 3 (17:49):
Their in real life actually too.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
She was a great guest, absolutely lovely, lovely woman. In fact,
I think we the cafe where Jackie met up caught
up with her in my memory because it was in Taranga,
was actually just across the road from the statues of
all the dogs. It's anyway, I wonder if she hangs
around it going.
Speaker 3 (18:09):
I created that character.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
Possibly probably she doesn't have a ego that I do.
Of course I've just realized, of course rolled down. I
actually didn't read this as a kid. But Charlie and
the Chocolate Factory is a famous old sort of story.
There's another. Did you ever read Charlie in the Chocolate Factory?
Speaker 3 (18:26):
I watch the movie, But the thing is the original
stories of that anyhow, that would be a sidetrack when
we were talking about rejigging stories. I mean, the Plumpers
were a tribe of Africans that they brought in as
basically indentured or slave labor. And and so by the
time the movie came around, they definitely changed it to
something different. But it's interesting how values were. Well, they
(18:48):
changed it to plumpers. It must have been something else. No,
I think they called them that, but they were a
yeah in the original book. So it's interesting how sensitivities change.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
I'm pretty sure in the original movie there polympers, but
they were but they were purple.
Speaker 3 (19:03):
They had to change into sort of fictitious characters.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
Yes, little green or purple people. That's right. I can't remember. Yeah,
did you actually? By the way, the Johnny Depp remac
I never really saw that, but I sometimes think sometimes
the classics are the way to go. Yeah, mind you.
That was probably around the time that Johnny Depp suddenly
sort of became maybe less appealing to some people. Right,
let's take some more calls on it.
Speaker 6 (19:26):
Jan, Hello, I've heard him.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
And what's John?
Speaker 2 (19:31):
That's John John. I thought you were wed famous in
New Zealand.
Speaker 7 (19:37):
Oh, that's good.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
Now.
Speaker 7 (19:41):
I used to work at a private girls school and
we went through a major drama and at night the
girls had trouble sleeping and there are any young little
girls and they had nightmares and sleepwalking and all kinds
of things. So I decided to read them a story
(20:04):
night before they went to bed, and I found this
book that I bought in Canada about the early settlers
family in Canada. It was a true story, and they
sat enthralled as I read it, and it helped them
get through all this reading. Kids there lovely stories.
Speaker 3 (20:27):
It would take so many boxes for them, you know,
just the reassurance of reassurance of a you know, an
adult presence, but also you know that story is probably
still living in their heads.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
And Jan has just reminded me Chase. I went to
boarding school when I was eleven and twelve for a
couple of years, and the principal was the headmaster, and
it was kind of an old It was in Hamilton,
but it was modeled on the old English preps. Probably
had a rinter. Oh well, there's not capital.
Speaker 3 (20:56):
It's a strict school. I would sort out a lot
of these discipline brothers, corporal punishment.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
Sorry, but the principal mister Marshall, the headmaster, Mister Marshall
used to read so the Borders. I think it was
on a Sunday night. Whe'd sometimes have a movie up
at the in the one of the in the hall
sort of things. There was a room at the back
where we're all squeezing. But he would read to us
from the Hobbit. And the art of reading a story
(21:24):
is an absolute it is. There is an art to it.
Either that or you just have to read it and
absolutely inhabit it. But he had us and on to
a room of one hundred boys transfixed, especially when the
Hobbit that got to Golum, and just even the way
he did. Gollum's voice was so good that when Andy
(21:46):
Serkis did when they did the movie and Andy Serkis
did the voice, I was like, that is nowhere near
as good as mister Marshall's. He had nailed Golum. And
I mean, Andy Serkis nice performance, Shane. Mister Marshall wasn't
available for the movie because his voice. It was just
in the art of listening being read to is quituite
quite something, isn't it?
Speaker 3 (22:07):
Well, that's triggered a memory of me. Mister Charteris at
at my intermediate school read us from the Hobbit as well,
and and again it was the thing I remember was
in those caves and the precious Yeah, it was. It's
amazing that that that girl's school story and everything like that.
(22:27):
You get good at reading stories. I can remember that
the last story I read to one of my kids
was the story of going to Antarctica and get stuck
in the ice.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
What was it called the.
Speaker 3 (22:41):
Yeah, no idea, no idea Shackleton's story.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
I didn't know you did know?
Speaker 3 (22:47):
I know too, but it a fella that fell fell
off the convey about there. But I mean these stories,
they they're great fun to read, but they also they
do something for your relationship with your kids too.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
Absolutely right, Let's let's keep the conversation going.
Speaker 8 (23:01):
Jane, Hello, Oh hi, I'm a retired teacher.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
Uh huh.
Speaker 8 (23:08):
And all through there's always been crisis in the world, right,
So to give the kids a feeling that they're capable,
I always read survival stories. And I read like The
Silver Sword by Surelia, which was about a kid in
(23:31):
World War Two and how he survived and how these
other kids got together and how they helped each other.
So many values came in and with survival stories there
were there was humor there too, and and you know,
and they always survived.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
Let kids know that you can get through triumph adversity.
The stories of optimism.
Speaker 8 (23:58):
And absolutely there's another one, Hatchet. I didn't like Hatchet
Winter because that was just made up and an actual fact.
He really wouldn't have survived in Canada in the wilderness
a little boy of about eleven.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
And actually, I'll be honest, that's why I struggled with
the Diary of Anne Frank, because I knew that the
I mean, I found that. I can't remember a lot
about the diary, but I just remember being a bit
depressed by the fact that it didn't end too well
in terms of Ann Frank.
Speaker 8 (24:27):
But yeah, so there was you know, and also the
key c a y it was about a boat.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
That was.
Speaker 3 (24:37):
I haven't heard of any of these stories. Oh does
that sound like a great idea?
Speaker 8 (24:43):
You see, the thing is because of about ten, eleven, twelve,
they're realizing they're part of the world, and they're reading that,
they're seeing the news, they're actually taking it in and
it's it's a frightening world for some Well, you know,
it depends how you look at it. I like to
think life to laugh and you just you just pack
(25:03):
as much fun as you can into a short place
of time as you can. Yeah, but kids need to
know that shit can happen, but you can get through.
So that's why anyway, I'm old ancient now, but that's
what I always read, and I read it to my
children too. You know when you look at the famous
five and people poo poo that, but that is a
(25:24):
survival story too. Those kids face things, they got through.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
Yeah, good stuff. Hey, thanks Jane. I've got to keep
moving because we've got lots of carse lining up. Actually,
the other one was there are some certain children's books,
and I think even programs sometimes where there are two levels.
The kids enjoy it on a basic level, but there's
stuff that the adults can laugh at as well that
goes over the kid's head. And I wish I could
remember those books because it means that as an adult,
(25:49):
you enjoy reading them because there's other sort of layers
to it that you can laugh at while the kids
are just enjoying the basic store.
Speaker 3 (25:57):
I think that's probably what Jane was getting at, that
there would be an entertaining story that's going along, but
some bigger values that will shake out of it. The
other thing is that broaden their world so much. I
mean TV doesn't do this, It compresses it down. But
and kids end up knowing everything about the last fifty
minutes and nothing about the last fifty years, whereas these
books broaden their idea of the world and now it
(26:18):
can be lived.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
Of course, was Matilda rolled doll as well?
Speaker 3 (26:22):
Am I thinking?
Speaker 2 (26:22):
Oh ok, sure, yeah, gosh a fascinating man. He must
have been rolled down. That tells everything I expected as well.
But something for adults.
Speaker 3 (26:29):
Actually, his autobiographies Boy and Going Solo. I think it's
called solo. That great books and probably worth reading the
kids do.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
Right, let's sack some more calls Dale High.
Speaker 9 (26:41):
Oh hello, look, I'm an ex librarian, children's librarian, an
ex kindergarten teacher, and now a seventy seven year old
going blind. He's always had a great love of reading.
But in my day when I first started off with
his fairy tales and nursrhymes, oh yes.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
Underella and Sleeping Beauty and all that sort of stuff.
Speaker 9 (27:03):
Yes, all that sort of stuff, and his got it
had history. They told stories, you know, you could actually
talk about what really happened. Do you think about this?
And it's with that lovely sense of rhythm, Because Patroldren,
a lot of reading is about.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
Ryan if you were giving, say, if you were giving
a gift to some to a child with the expectation
that their parents would read them read to them.
Speaker 9 (27:26):
It's the number of Verry McCleary's stories. Because I know
I was sitting next to this lady at an airport.
I think I've seen that lady. I think I know her.
So we had this lovely chat in them and I
got on the plane I realized it was herne And
(27:47):
I just think that I've sent those sorts of books
all over the world to you know, nieces and nephews
and things over the time. But reading, as you were saying,
it's actually your interpretation of what you hear, not somebody
else playing and sting up a thing on a TV
or something like that. Even just great creating the theater
(28:10):
of the mind, and it is you know and encouraging,
you know, you know you go to well luckily some kindergartens.
Do you still have librarians that come in and talk
to the children about books?
Speaker 2 (28:22):
Well, actually, the public libraries have have have have book reading.
I think most many public libraries have. I'man the one
and where I live Saint Heleia, as I assum to remember,
there are a couple of mornings where you'd go down
with your with your with your little one and and
that sit down while they got read to by. It
was a special reading story. Readings time was great time.
Speaker 9 (28:42):
Yes, it's lovely. But I'll tell you something that is
quite amusing as being a reader. I thought, well, I'll
go and get the books that you know somebody else
reads to you. And I now know why children go
to sleep when you're reading to them. It's because of
they're very soothing tone. It's not quite like reading it yourself.
But well, lovely love the discussion on you.
Speaker 2 (29:04):
I forgot Scarfaced Claw, the Tough and Tom in Town.
That's right. I got through all the voices pretty much
earlier on are you checking the when I googled who
are the dogs? Who have I forgotten because there were
other ones? But they're about six.
Speaker 3 (29:15):
I think I see them all every morning down at
Long Bay Beach.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
Ah in reality. That's right. Right, Let's carry on dinner, sello.
Speaker 10 (29:25):
Yes, good evening, John, good evening, and John.
Speaker 3 (29:31):
Oh you're just oh, thank you. It's nice to be remembered.
Speaker 10 (29:36):
Some years ago, when my kids were intermediate school, they
went on a camp and I was asked to go
along as the male guardian or would work as all ladies,
and Shed thirteen were all the boys and boy they were,
so I was put in charge of Third thirteen and
they wouldn't go to sleep, and they jumped up and
(29:57):
everything else. And I went around there and one of
them said, you in the navy, and I said, yep,
can you tell us a navy story? And I actually
was really rereading a book called Above Us the Way,
a Classic Submarine, so I read them an article there
where they were going to dive and everything else, and
they said, and when do they die do they make
a sound? And I suggest They said that sounder Clackson
(30:18):
and it goes a luga, a louga, And this just
stunned them, a wrong thing to do, Dennis, for the
rest of the camp, walking.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
Every time I saw you.
Speaker 10 (30:33):
Months later, I was at the school watching a sport game,
had the team stopped and all turned and looked at
me and all went.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
That sounds like that you had a positive because they
don't tease you and joke about those things unless they're
fond of you, Dennis. So they must have.
Speaker 10 (30:52):
Ended up okay, I was. They were there were regular kids,
have woked ten eleven and that love but the ladies
who couldn't control them and sent me around there and yeah,
so who became inverther Comma's mates by the end of
that one.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
Excellent that I like that, Dennis, Actually that is quite funny,
just in terms of obviously you made quite an impression
with us imperson nation of the tax. And by the way,
it's you're talking about the sanitization of boxes is just
on what's on exactly that topic. But you wonder what
sometimes it's trying to work out those stories you read
to kids, because one of the purposes of stories is
(31:31):
also to inform kids that I don't know, sometimes wonder
if we sanitize things too much. For instance, the Brother's
Grim Boy. Have you read The Brother's Grim? Stuff is terrible,
but there are like the Boy who Quite Cried Wolf.
I think that's sanitized to he got in trouble, but
in the real Boy who Cried Wolf, he got killed
by the wolf. And I think there was a purpose
(31:53):
to those stories that it was to let pick kids
know that, you know, life is great, but also you
need to pay attention to certain sort of messages about
you know, living safely and stuff, and back in the
times when Better on the Wolf was that was a
real thing, wasn't it.
Speaker 3 (32:11):
Yeah, I'm ambivalent. I don't know. I don't really don't know.
I can remember reading a sort of an adventure book
that had been written earlier in the twentieth century, and
I remember a line where there was a person of
mixed heritage and there's gutten the hero going, you can
never trust these coffee and cream types, and I'm just
(32:32):
sort of thinking, goodness, do you want to sanitize you
to keep attitudes and ideas like that in the mouth
of the hero? And I don't think we do. That
was something representative of the time that I.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
Agree with you. I think there are salutary tales about
just that there are good lessons to bel but not
those ones.
Speaker 3 (32:54):
So yeah, there is a place for it. But that's
why I'm saying I'm ambivalent. But reading those old hideous stories,
you know, children's stories from the eighteenth century, you.
Speaker 2 (33:05):
Know Brothers Grimm and thinking that you know they are grim.
Oh no, I remember I was fascinated because I was
looking at I think it was because there were certain
fairy tales that get sort of disney fired and I
was interested, and I looked up the what's the original
story from this particular fairy tale and it was certainly
I think that's where the word grim comes from, because
it was I won't even say it on air, but
(33:27):
what happens to one of the victims in the story.
There's some horrendous stuff in there, so don't get them
the unedited brothers Brothers grim would be the thing. Anyway. Hey,
thank you so much for everyone for joining in on
the conversation this afternoon. Time flies when you're having fun.
Speaker 3 (33:42):
John, It's been fun, nice talking to you.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
Excellent, and we'll be back to rap Sport in just
a moment. I think Jason Pine's going to be joining
us from the Cake Tin, so we'll be back in
just a moment. It's coming up to seventeen minutes to six.
Speaker 1 (33:57):
For more from the Weekend Collective, listen live to news
Talks it'd be weekends from three pm, or follow the
podcast on iHeartRadio.
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