November 16, 2024 • 36 mins
How involved should you allow your children to become in politics? What warnings should you give them?
Psychologist Sara Chatwin joins to discuss this and more.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talk Sedby.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
So welcome back to the Weekend Collective. I'm Tim Beverage
and this is the Parents Squad. By the way, if
you miss any of the previous hours fascinating conversation with
Nick good Or from core Logic just about the softening
of the market and what's happening and what we might see.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
As a change when it's going to change.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
But you can check out the podcast A week in
Collective on iHeartRadio, and also a really lively panel with
Mark Chrysel and Shane to Poe as well, covering a
bunch of things that he called Harker the pro to
yes them right down to some slightly more mischievous topics
shall we say, which I don't need to repeat again,
but anyway, I check that out we podcast. But right
(01:13):
now it's time for the Parents Squad and my guest
is Sarah Chatwin, a psychologist.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
Hello, Sarah, liked it.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
You know, you know it's only because we've had the
discussions at Sarah or Sarah and then and when my
mind's racing suddenly it goes.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
All you just go to a bad default. Which one
was it?
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Now I always have to assume that when the when
the H is missing, it's Sarah. So anyway, welcome, How
are you really good?
Speaker 4 (01:38):
How are you?
Speaker 3 (01:38):
I'm not too bad.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
It sounds like the panel was.
Speaker 4 (01:41):
Very you know, liberating and uplifting and energetic.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
If only we could have broadcast the bits that were
in the ads, that would have been anyway. Hey, you know, look,
there's a lot of in politics right now. And of
course we've seen the Hekoy and there was a school
principal who was encouraging kids to go on up. We've
seen TV and xetic executives getting a bit of getting
a bit of heat for going on it and posting
(02:05):
on their social media.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
But at an early age.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
So obviously parents influence their children because they're their parents.
But you know, while their frontal lobes are developing, managing
their political views, encouraging and doctrinating them. You know, there's
parents who make a point probably of trying to impart
(02:31):
to their children why their view of the universe and
the world and politics is the right one?
Speaker 3 (02:38):
Is there?
Speaker 2 (02:41):
Where's the line we should parents back off and say, well,
you know, I do believe this, but actually I should
probably let little Jimmy or little Julie make up our
own mind.
Speaker 4 (02:50):
Yeah, let them be kids. Well, I mean, I think
we've got to take age into consideration when you are
thinking about, you know, indoctrination. I don't like that word,
and I don't think parents should do that to children.
But I think if you're talking about young children, I mean,
is there really a need for them to be part
of a political environment when they've got a lot of
other stuff going on? And you're quite right, I mean,
(03:12):
you know, minds are developing, but children pick up on
their parents' emotions, and that includes responses to political ideology.
So if there is a child growing up in a
very politicized kind of environment, they are going to pick
up on it. I think a key point is that
if children of any age come to you as a
(03:33):
parent asking questions, then sure open the pathways of communication up.
If you are attending a political event as a family,
well in who's to question that because that's a parenting
choice and parents are obviously the architects of their children's destiny. However,
you know, kids probably need time to just be kids,
(03:54):
and they've got a lot to deal with and there's
a lot of growth that occurs you know, physiologically, brain wise,
and also they're not necessarily equipped. They are not equipped
from an early age even in terms of you know,
cerebral stuff to deal with huge and complex issues because
they have very rudimentary brains that are still you know, in.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
Terms of unless they have been unless they are that
special kid who's a huge consumer of history and politics
and things, then really the view of the world is
pretty limited.
Speaker 4 (04:28):
Hey, and you are not that child at five or
four or six or seven. I mean, children's anxiety can
be exacerpated by their parents' ideology indirectly and unintentionally. But
kids can pick up on you know, anger or you know,
robust discussion that tips over into you know, emotional stuff,
and they can have heightened levels of anxiety. So I
(04:51):
guess parents possibly just need to take a you know,
take a breath, take a pause, and think, so is
this necessary? Is this what I really want from my child?
Speaker 3 (05:00):
Yeah? So, look, I want to hear from you.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
We want to hear from you on eight hundred and
eighty ten eighty How hard should you push your political
ideals onto your kids? Because there is also the question
that arises that, for instance, this is not political at all.
But my dad was a forestry scientist and he loved nature,
and look so do I. But he would often when
(05:22):
we're going for a walk or something, he'd rattle off
the names of the different species, and it probably meant
the last thing I ever wanted to do was to
be a forestry scientists.
Speaker 4 (05:31):
That right, he was probably hoping for the exact opposite.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
Well, I don't think actually, to be honest, I think
he was just sharing what he loved. But I think
sometimes if you expect that you pushing your views onto
your kids is going to mean that they're going to
end up voting for your political sort of choices. I mean,
rebellion does tend to play a part with kids, doesn't it.
Speaker 4 (05:51):
Well, certainly, if you're heading into those adolescent years and
you haven't had a a specially good relationship with your parent,
and you know there's a hard influence in a specific direction,
you might find that absolutely kids will go in the
opposite direction. But I mean, is that right to do
that as a parent? Is it right not to just
allow kids options and opportunities and allow them an understanding
(06:14):
of all views and then see where it lands with
that particular child. Is that not a more fair way
to go about.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
I should share probably what I do with my kids
in that. And they've asked a few questions and expressed
different points of view because they've seen a headline of something.
And I'll usually just ask them a couple of questions
and say or I'll tell them, look, my opinion is
slightly different to that, but I don't tell them that
(06:43):
they're wrong. I say, you'll have to make up your
own mind. I literally say that. I said, look, my
opinion is this. I think you need to make up
your own mind. But it's worth considering. Here are a
few questions you could ask yourself about that. Why why
are we not hearing that other side of the story,
or why is that wrong? And can you imagine a
situation where that person's point of view is just as valid?
(07:04):
And then I leave it there, and the way they.
Speaker 4 (07:05):
Go, you're presenting your position in a more fair light,
and you're giving them the opportunity to ask questions and
have questions answered. So that's a dialogue, that's not a monologue,
that's a that's not a type of indoctrination. That's giving
children some information allowing them to run with it and
then you know, I'm a great proponent of leave, of
(07:27):
opening those pathways of communication and allowing children to come
back to you, you know when and if they want.
But I think indoctrination, no forcing kids to do stuff.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
Oh, indoctrination. It's such a strong word, but effectively I mean,
I mean it's an inflammatory word, isn't it. But without
getting carried away with ourselves, you could argue any form
of instruction and telling your kids how the world works
as indoctrination. I mean religions, the classic one. I mean, oh,
I mean I've been thinking politics and almost almost ignoring
(07:58):
the elephant in the room of what the big issues
in life are. Because some might say that if you
take your kids to long to church or not, I
guess you're in I mean, most parents, if they are religious,
they will it's not POSI fool around. They will indoctrinate
their kids into their religion because they believe it's not
just a question of political thing. They are convinced that
(08:19):
this is the way things are.
Speaker 4 (08:22):
And then children come to a certain age, where as
you say there could be rebellion, there is a lot
more question asking. I mean, teenagers will not just sit
there and allow their parents to say this is what
it is, this is how it goes, this is what
you will do. They say, But hang on, I feel
like this or I want to do this. So there
(08:42):
is a point where it becomes more of a discussion.
So indoctrination, I mean, sure, you know, I'm not sure
about people out there who indoctrinate. I don't personally know many.
I know a lot of people who give kids options
and allow them to have a discussion at an appropriate age.
But certainly, as a parent, you have a responsibility to
(09:03):
care for your children, and I guess some parents have
different ways of doing that than others. But yeah, I
think indoctrination is just another it's an inflammatory term. I
mean influence.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
Istry slightly mischievously, but only you've got that mischievous look.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
It's a wonderful thing about radio.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
But yeah, but I guess that's the question about we
want you. You want to influence your children to be
good people, to have a good set of values, and
to have successful you know, have I mean even defining
success for them. It will be up for them in
the end. But you want to set them up to
be happy, I guess, And it is an interesting question
as to how far you push certain things, because I
(09:45):
know lots of people who have, for instance, very religious
parents and they're completely non religious because somehow it didn't
rub off even though.
Speaker 4 (09:54):
Yea, even though it was there. Well, I guess, and
I've known families like that too, and I've I've actually
been very impressed with the fact that the parents have
remained on their course, but equally they've accepted that their children,
you know, have made different decisions as they've become teenagers
and beyond, and the family unit still works. It doesn't
mean I mean, it's more about having views and being
(10:19):
you know, responsible in terms of your parenting of young children,
and then allowing children to kind of, you know, do
their thing and make their own decisions as they age
and as they get to a point where they're able
to do that. But I mean, there is a reason
that we don't let seven year olds vote.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
There is a rest Well, actually I would, I would say,
and there's a reason we don't.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
After sixteen year old's vote.
Speaker 4 (10:41):
Well, that's right.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
I mean, how long have you really been around forming
a bit of experience in the world. There are exceptions.
I work with someone who's an exception to that it
was politically active from quite an early age, but.
Speaker 4 (10:50):
Generally yeah, well, you know, life is all about continuums,
so you are going to have exceptions and then everybody
you know, everything else in between. But yeah, I mean,
I think that giving children the opportunity to see all sides,
to hear different stories, to gather facts from several sources,
(11:11):
whether it's parents, grandparents, and then to you know, encourage
them to make their own decisions under the umbrella of
you know, of course there's influence you know in the
family home and in the parental and family set up,
but I just don't think pushing them into things and
necessarily yeah, I mean, for a lot of kids, having
(11:33):
a day off school to go to a political rally
is just a day off school, doesn't mean that much.
Speaker 3 (11:39):
Well yeah, I'm I don't know what.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
I haven't crossed that bridge yet. If my kids wanted
to take time off school to go attend a political rally,
and I don't really know what I think because my
as someone who's not quite at that cusp of making
those decisions, Yeah, I would lean to you, blomen whilest
at school and do your classes. You take time off
when you're second when you've got Yeah, I think schools
(12:05):
for school.
Speaker 3 (12:06):
You read about it in the news.
Speaker 4 (12:07):
You know, and you can see it online. You can
access you know, the visuals and the input another way
without taking time off.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
I can imagine the only it would be probably cause related.
If if the cause was I want to be able
to vote at sixteen versus eighteen, maybe I'd say, okay.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
If you really feel it strong. None, I think i'd
be nut. But I don't know.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
I could change my mind on that one and flip
flop you what did you do as a as a
mum with did you ever have to face those.
Speaker 4 (12:34):
No, I actually didn't know. That wasn't something I came
up against. I probably would have had the discussion because
I really like leaving those pathways of communication open. But
I think that it would depend for me on the
child on the day, what they had going on at school.
For example, if it was a teacher's only day, no
problem there because they're not at school. If it was
an exam day, no, I.
Speaker 3 (12:56):
Think that's an easy one.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
Okay, you've got an exam line.
Speaker 4 (13:00):
Well, but if it was equally, if it was a
class that I felt they needed to attend, because perhaps
that was a subject that they found difficult. No, I
would probably say, probably go to school. What are your
reasons for you know, because this is really important in
terms of your ongoing education. You can access the information
on the TV, through a print media or online, so
(13:23):
there are options where by children don't have to miss
out on school or things like that. But of course
there are also family dictates, and a lot of families,
you know, think it's important for their children to be
part of a ekoi or a political event or something
like that.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
The question around attending a protest is I guess it's
just what are the questions you would ask as a
parent for yourself as to how you responded to that.
And I think what you've suggested, Yeah, if they've got
some important classes age wise, I mean, look, if they're
eight or nine and then whatever to protest, I'm like,
you're kidding. But when you get to the say fifteen
(14:00):
or sixteen or seventeen, maybe there is a nuance to
that you can be a little flexible.
Speaker 4 (14:05):
And I think that if you're an authoritative parent and
you choose that more flexible parenting style, then you will
be open to having conversations with your children. I mean
children can benefit or so the research suggests, from learning
to be open to different viewpoints even if you don't
agree with them and they don't agree with them, but
just letting that information wash over them, seeing how it lands,
(14:28):
seeing how to fix them can be you know, enlightening
at the very least.
Speaker 3 (14:34):
Okay, we want to have from you on the political front.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
If your kids want to go and join a protest,
is it something you should encourage or Tom, you know what,
stay at school. You've got other priorities. You can protest
when you've when you've got a job, your employee gives
your permission, I don't know, give us a call. And
in terms of your own political opinions, how much should
you push those on your kids? Given that it might
(14:56):
not be a winning scenario If they're this type of
child who is likely to say what a mum and
dad believe, I'll do exactly the opposite. So it's not
always a winning tactics. So what that starts?
Speaker 3 (15:05):
Do you take to that?
Speaker 2 (15:07):
I eight one hundred eighty ten eighty text nine two
nine two. My guest is Sarah chap when she's a
psychologist with now tell us where people can get.
Speaker 4 (15:14):
In touch with you, so mind work stock coo dot
in Z. I am happy to answer any questions and
I've had some lovely feedback from people listening to the
Parenting Squad. You're quite a popular guide to with these conversations.
Speaker 3 (15:26):
I'll have to get you back things like that.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
Okay, it's twenty two past five News Talks ed B.
Speaker 4 (15:34):
Love me.
Speaker 5 (15:36):
Listen.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
Thank you so you can see.
Speaker 4 (15:41):
Stands so.
Speaker 5 (15:44):
Dostal you can see.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
Just welcome back to News Talks ed B. This is
the weekend collective and the Parents Squad my guest to
Sarah chap when she's a psychologist talking about politics in
the home and how much you should shove your politics
on your kids. And we're going to I think we're
going to move to the with a a little bit
more conversation. We're gonna take some calls in a second.
But I think there is a good argument that maybe
politics should be just left out altogether of the family
(16:12):
home and talk about anything. But is something we're going
to explore in a moment. But first let's take some calls. Matthew, Hello,
hello there.
Speaker 6 (16:23):
Yeah, I agree that you should leave politics out in
the home. Yep, where if you could come home and
they say I want to go to this protest. A
good question to ask them is why, what do they
understand about the protest? What do they really understand? And
where do they get the information? Is that a free
that's talk them into it?
Speaker 4 (16:43):
And what is their motivation? Those are great questions, Matthew.
That is exactly what I would be asking the kids
if they popped up with that.
Speaker 6 (16:52):
Yes, and do they understand what it means if they
get what they want? Do they really understand everything's interconnected?
Speaker 1 (17:04):
Yeah?
Speaker 6 (17:04):
In protest about how the British came to New Zealand
and colonized and it was a bad thing, you know what,
I think it wasn't the greatest thing. But if you
want to carry on that now you're actually dividing the country.
So you've got to ask people what does it do
for everyone?
Speaker 2 (17:24):
What would what would you say if they just said
I want to go because my friends are all going
and it sounds like it's an important issue, ask.
Speaker 6 (17:35):
Them the thing about it? So, yeah, okay, we'll go,
but really and ask them to observe what they see.
Ask other people at their process why are you here?
And you'll find most people don't know why they're.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
Actually that's probably that's actually that is actually quite a
good bit of advice, Matthew to just ask you because
if you're going to go on this, talk to people
and ask them why they're up, you know, why that
they're protesting, and have some conversations because.
Speaker 3 (18:04):
Yeah, it's not a bad idea, but we do.
Speaker 4 (18:07):
Have to be aware of peer group pressure. It's not
always the best reason to do anything, really, but I
get it.
Speaker 3 (18:13):
It's yeah, yeah, thanks, we call mate, appreciate it.
Speaker 5 (18:17):
Jan.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
Hi, It's Jen, Yes, I know hello Jan? How are you?
Speaker 4 (18:23):
He got your name right? Jack?
Speaker 7 (18:25):
It sounded like a high parent. Now that's South Wellington
Intermediate principle allowing their children the day off to go
and join that protest in Wellington. The eleven twelve year
(18:45):
old children, their parents will have to drive them into
central City to the Parliament and if anything, if they
can go by the last protest where it became extremely
violent and dangerous all hell broke out. I think any
parent that wants to go in there and risk putting
(19:10):
their children through all that sort of helf need to
have their heads checked.
Speaker 3 (19:16):
Actually, that is a point, isn't it.
Speaker 7 (19:17):
At school as well?
Speaker 3 (19:19):
That is a point.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
Actually, if there's a potential for violence and things, I
mean we can think about that, we can think about
protests that have gone the wrong way. I hadn't even
thought about that from that personal.
Speaker 4 (19:27):
Safety and that's what parents have.
Speaker 7 (19:30):
To play with them as well. So it's a very
bad decision making. The better thing those parents need to
take their children home and keep them right out of it.
That's my opinion.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
Well, because we've got that, thanks, thanks Jans Jan, because
we've got that issue where yeah, the Wellington Girls principal,
Oh no, sorry, there's sorry, there's a there are some
there was a principal who was encouraging kids to go
on the protest or the he coin things like that,
and let's keep the politics out of it. But I
tend to think, well, there's a political aspect of that
(20:04):
that school principles should simply keep. I mean, as public servants,
you should keep your own thoughts and encouragements on politics
out of it.
Speaker 4 (20:10):
But also, how do they know the setup in each
one of those children's families. I mean, there may not
have been mum and dad's available, as Jan mentioned, to
get the children to point a and to have them
monitor and look after them. And equally, she pointed out
she made a valid point about violence or if something happens,
I mean, maybe even somebody carrying a glass bottle or
(20:32):
something breaks and it cuts. I mean, there are so
many things that can happen, and we really need to
look after our children. And of course, again age dependent,
you can't just be putting children up for this. It
has to be a well thought out and strategized kind
of plan if you are a parent that wants your
children your child to engage in this.
Speaker 3 (20:51):
There is another angle you mentioned.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
We were just chatting before we came back on air,
and it's about how political discussions around in the home
actually can be the cause of anxiety in kids, and
maybe there's an to just avoid it all together.
Speaker 4 (21:06):
Well, there is an argument for that. I'm not sure
you know whether some families who are politicized would react
to that. But what I think we've got to understand
is children's brains are developing. They don't have, you know, experience,
and it's very age dependent. And I think they are
not only listening to their parents' words, they're sensitive to
(21:26):
their parents' facial expressions and tone of voice. So you know,
a lot of political conversations get fairly aggressive, and you know,
the tone is raised and it can become quite volatile,
and children are very sensitized to this. So when I
was looking at the research term, I do do a
bit of prep for these, you know, I know you
wouldn't believe it, would you, but I do. I was
(21:48):
reading over and over again that the research suggests that,
you know, these kind of conversations, particularly for children ten
and under, are quite anxiety provoking. So that's not what
I'd want to put my kid through.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
So, yeah, as soon as you mentioned that about the anxiety,
I mean, it's just especially if I mean, I don't
know how couples go and they've got different points of
view on politics. Probably they don't talk about politics, i'd
say most of the time. But as soon as you
mentioned the prospects for a bit of anxiety, I suddenly thought, actually,
you know what, I just keep the political talk well
(22:20):
out of it.
Speaker 4 (22:20):
Well, that also speaks too, adults not bringing children into
adult conversation, and that is dictated by the culture of
the family. For example, there are a lot of families,
particularly families you know, undergoing a little bit of you know,
whether it's separation or those kind of issues where parents
bring children and sometimes small children are four, five, six
(22:44):
to ten into adult conversation and it's just not right.
Children don't cope well with that. They want to be children.
In fact, I was talking to a colleague about this
issue and he said that some kids actually feel like
they'd like to go and live in a desert island
rather than hear mum and dad you know, fight or
get aggressive about politics or religion or any of those things.
They just don't want to be part of it.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
That also ties into just arguing in front of the
kids actually, and how much you should avoid that, because
how much should you avoid having because there is that
example of you know, not avoiding reality that of course
mum and dad are going to have arguments, but we
love each other and we talk and seeing you also
work it out as well.
Speaker 4 (23:24):
Yes, well that's nice if parents, well it's not nice
to argue, but if parents argue and then are able
to explain to their children why it happened, and you know,
tempers were a bit afraid, and I was a bit tired,
and you know, we got into this and we're terribly sorry.
We shouldn't do this.
Speaker 2 (23:41):
All the time.
Speaker 4 (23:41):
That's okay. But a lot of parents argue and then
just leave their kids anchored to that space without any
explanation or kindness around how to get out of that space.
So we've got to Yeah, I mean, I don't think
arguing in front of kids is what we want, but
certainly it is part of that family landscape. But if
you can talk to your children about what happens and
(24:04):
that there is a lot of love in the situation,
and you know, these things do pop up from time
to time. But I mean, if you're exposing children to
aggressive political talk or you know, volatile conversations, I don't
think that's going to end well for their psychological or
you know, psycho emotional well being.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
Okay, look, let's take some more calls on this.
Speaker 5 (24:25):
Pete, Hello, they great, Hi, Pete can look. I just
want to say quickly, me and my son he's he three.
Now we've got a mocapoon a grandson. He's ten, lovely
and I go around the once a week to stay overnight.
So me and my son two a bit of meat
(24:48):
of the old said and talk about politics. But we
don't do it in aggressive men. It's call and nice. No,
I say the good stuff. I talk back there, Timber,
I'm just saying dim he does that. He didn't in
my son when he was eight years of age, John
the serious protast with the GE proteast genetic engineered food,
(25:15):
and the any thing I told him was that GE
food is pressed to food in we're proteasting, they have
real food. Really stated, Well, it's basically where we're talking
them about it.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
Yeah, well, did you explain that you've been eating a
lot of GE food because you probably have been, Pete.
Speaker 3 (25:30):
But anyway, Hey, thanks for call th right.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
Regarding as if you text here, indoctrination isn't needed for
the children of the wealthy who tend to automatically.
Speaker 3 (25:39):
Oh, this is an interesting one. It does sound a
little loteresting. Well okay, okay, I'll start it again.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
Indoctrination. Indoctrination isn't needed for the children of the wealthy
who tend to automatically lean to the right, because it's
the ideology that suits the continuance of the status quo
that allows their ongoing comfort. Regards Owen, I think that's
one hundred percent wrong, and I think that the kids
who the kids who haven't had to work for the
money can be quite free with their political values because
(26:07):
easy coming. It's I think you will often find that
kids who are born into wealth can quite comfortably be
to the left side of the ledger because and their
parents might be to the right because they'll have a
view as to what got them there and et cetera,
and they might be leaning conservatively.
Speaker 3 (26:23):
But I don't know.
Speaker 4 (26:24):
I think Owen got very deep and of course you
can make broad generalizations like that, and I'm not sure
that that's helpful as it and I.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
Somehow think that, I don't know, we've just had cold
planned town. I'm guessing that Chris Martin, Gwyneth Powtrow's kids
probably mildly liberal, and their liberal and left in their
points of view, and.
Speaker 4 (26:43):
Yet gazillionaires, well maybe not.
Speaker 3 (26:46):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
Anyway, Thanks for your text on that, Tim, Brain development
miss is the concept of consequences until about twenty five
years old. Based on this, voting, smoking, drinking should be
all pushed out to twenty five years Well, you can
make an.
Speaker 3 (27:01):
Argument for that.
Speaker 4 (27:02):
I actually think you can make an argument for that,
because who was that Texter? Did we have a name?
Speaker 2 (27:08):
L K LK?
Speaker 4 (27:11):
You know so much research suggests that, you know, the
brain is an ongoing and very unknown landscape, even for
the best of neurosurgeons and doctors. So yeah, there is
an argument to be made for pushing things like certainly
you know, alcohol, drugs, anything like that, not that you
should probably stay away from all of that, tim to
be honest.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
Yeah, another one here. My eleven year old son came
home from school on Friday and his teacher was talking
about the protest. One kid said, why are they protesting?
And the teacher's answer was, David Seymour was trying to
steal all of our land because we owned all That's
who reckoning to primary school kids.
Speaker 3 (27:43):
Oh out, wow, that's just the teachers an idiot.
Speaker 4 (27:47):
Well that's really not I mean, if you look at
the research, language like that is quite anxiety provoking. That's
not empowering children to handle a situation. That's not encouraging
them to listen to each other and to understand other
people's points of view. So that's clearly not a great
stance to take as a teacher. That's very a biased stance, right.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
Actually, yeah, I'm forgetting whether you agree with the opinion
or not, just the fact that a teacher would express
that political opinion to kids who she's she or he
are responsible for teaching. I think is should be a
sackable offense, to be honest. But anyway, that's me being
a little bit inflammatory. But I frown upon it, so
we put it that way. Twenty two minutes to six,
News Talk said, be we'll be back in just a moment.
(28:31):
We loved your cause that The simple question is around
the politics. I think the clearest way to put it
is in the families? Is politics best left out altogether?
Because you know what political discussions? Are they ever really
that happy? Are you just contributing to the anxiety of
your household? Leave it out, Just talk about something else.
I don't know the weather, how their sports going, how
(28:51):
their English is going, or you know, the maths or whatever,
anything but politics.
Speaker 3 (28:56):
What do you reckon?
Speaker 2 (28:56):
Oh, one hundred and eighty ten to eighty twenty two
minutes to six, and welcome back to the Weekend Collective.
(29:23):
I'mton Beveridge. I think if from Man Travers is planning
on doing any coldplay, we've stolen most of his thunder
by playing for your coldplayer songs, so I'm not sure
what he's got planned From my day, but we'll maybe
have a quick chat with him or work it out.
So I can just give you a little teaser. But
this is the parents Squad, my guest to Sarah Chat
when she's a psychologist with Mind Works, and we're talking
about whether you should leave political discussion basically out of
(29:45):
the family home or are you one of those parents
who you know you believe in the ex political party
and you're going to tell your kid why they should
follow along in your footsteps as well, because it's the
only way to look at life.
Speaker 3 (29:57):
Eight hundred eighty ten. Eight Oh.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
By the way, Steve asked me some forgot asks me
if I've got COVID because he's heard me calping in
the ground there. No, I don't, Steve, Thanks for asking.
Speaker 3 (30:07):
It's just one of those bugs I know, just that
Eric of a little about three or four weeks ago.
Every now and again, it's just irritating.
Speaker 4 (30:14):
But no, it's not nice.
Speaker 3 (30:16):
I don't think I'm the only one.
Speaker 4 (30:17):
No, you're certainly not just getting back.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
To the the the political side of things and the
arguing in.
Speaker 3 (30:25):
Front of children.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
How do how should you manage that if your parents
are thinking? You know, because obviously when you're in an
argument from a mind, you're not really thinking logically because
you're having an argument because you're annoyed and something.
Speaker 4 (30:41):
So as we've had this conversation and it's and it's
gone on, I'm thinking to myself, Okay, what's one of
the better case scenarios that we can work with? What
about this for parents? What about parents? You know, mums
and dads. They come together. They probably you know, they're
not brought up by the same parents, are they, so
they you know, they get mad, they come together, they're together.
Whatever they have differing political political views, what say they
(31:03):
are able to talk about politics whenever they want to,
you know, amongst themselves. But why don't parents just wait
until their children ask them and see what crops up?
Speaker 6 (31:15):
There?
Speaker 4 (31:15):
Isn't that a more organic way of children coming to
a place where they actively either want to be involved
because they're generating questions around it. So in more politicized households,
you might be having slightly younger children asking the questions
and mums and dads answer them. The research says that
if children are asking these questions, it's great to answer them,
(31:39):
but it's also extremely important to allow children the opportunity
to see all sides of the issues and to acknowledge
all perspectives. So that is quite nice. So I guess
an answer to your question, maybe if mums and dads
keep their views to themselves, that's adult talk. Over and above,
say to the age of ten twelve, and then let's
see when the kids come to them and start asking questions.
(32:02):
When they do answer those questions, allow them as much
information as you can give them, you know that's relevant
and acceptable for that age group, and then take it
from there. Is that not a more measured and reasonable approach.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
Another question here says what about the kids? What about
for the kids themselves? Is it healthy for them to
be learning so much at a young age, and obviously
on the politics things, when they really should be focusing
on some simpler things like basic maths and English.
Speaker 4 (32:29):
I love keeping things really simple. I think we have
with social media. Things have gone absolutely crazy in terms
of the input that children have, and it's not necessarily
healthy input when you think of all of that, and
it's so nice to be able to just decompress, you know,
lean into green space, get out in the environment, play,
get active, exercise, So politics would be down my list.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
Actually, yeah, I've suddenly forgotten about the elephant in the room.
That is probably the political issue.
Speaker 4 (32:58):
We've had so many elephants in this room till.
Speaker 2 (32:59):
There are there's a heap which makes up for the
one that was shipped over to Australia.
Speaker 3 (33:05):
In Australia, I was sad.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
Yeah, is the big issue around climate because that is
one of the issues where schools talk about it from
a science point of view. One would hope it's mainly
from the science point of view.
Speaker 3 (33:20):
But.
Speaker 2 (33:23):
I think I'm not sure where to go with it
because I'll be honest, sometimes when I see stuff on
the climate on the news and it's, you know, another
headline about something bad, I.
Speaker 3 (33:33):
Just switch it off doom and gloom.
Speaker 2 (33:35):
Because I think that it's of all the anxiety inducing
issues in politics, it's probably the issue around climate change
where kids are told there's this problem. If we don't
do this, then you know, we're all screwed. And I
really push back against that sort of narrative because it's
so full of despair and negativity.
Speaker 4 (33:57):
Well, that's correct. I mean, there's a lot of things
that are changing in terms of us stepping back from
deficit to oriented approaches, which you know, you know they're
sca mungering, and you know it's really harmful for children.
Now you imagine a five year old hearing that, gee,
if we don't clean up our environment, the world's going
to explode. I mean, when we use a motive language,
(34:20):
and we when we allow children of certain ages, you know,
those younger age groups to listen to this, of course,
it can have harmful and damaging effects. I've heard of
kids having flashbacks and nightmares over this kind of stuff.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
So I guess my generation was about nuclear war because
we really were. My generation was terrified of nuclear war.
I just say to my kids, look, you know, look
at the amazing progress that humanity has made, and the
things invented will find a way.
Speaker 4 (34:45):
There will be souts to navigate our way through.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
Yeah, And I remind them of what, you know, because
this generation catastrophizes everything as oh that's a summary, that's
no sorry. At the moment, a lot of the stuff
in the media is catastrophizing things.
Speaker 4 (34:59):
I agree, and I just.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
Say, well, imagine what it was like growing up in
World War Two. You would have thought that that was
the end. And every generation has these things. But we
find our way through so.
Speaker 4 (35:10):
And also we take personal responsibility to do our personal
thing for the environment, So you know, we pick up
our rubbish and we do what we can do because
that's all we have control over. So it's it's nice
to be teaching those lessons to kids. But also yeah,
you know, kind of debunking or down playing that really
doomsday stuff.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
Yeah, yeah, and chill out, mum and dad. If you
happen to be a climate activist, don't give your kids
all sorts of hang ups over it. And I'm not
saying we avoid it, but yeah, but yeah, I think
for me it's probably I leave the politics off the
table until the kids bring it up.
Speaker 4 (35:45):
It's probably it's quite a nice reasonable approach to, you know,
bringing that conversation. If that conversation occurs, deal with it.
Speaker 3 (35:52):
Then face Sarah.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
Lovely to see you again, Tom, I mean, Tim got
it right. I know you did well done. If you
want to check out Sarah's Sarah's work, or you want
to get in touch, go and look for mind Works
mindworks dot co dot nz.
Speaker 4 (36:06):
That's the one.
Speaker 3 (36:07):
Thanks for joining us. We'll catch you again.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
We'll be wrapping sport in just a moment with Jason Pine,
and this is News Talk seed B. It's twelve minutes
to second.
Speaker 1 (36:15):
For more from the weekend collective, listen live to News
Talk SEDB weekends from three pm, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talk Sedby.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
So welcome back to the Weekend Collective. I'm Tim Beverage
and this is the Parents Squad. By the way, if
you miss any of the previous hours fascinating conversation with
Nick good Or from core Logic just about the softening
of the market and what's happening and what we might see.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
As a change when it's going to change.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
But you can check out the podcast A week in
Collective on iHeartRadio, and also a really lively panel with
Mark Chrysel and Shane to Poe as well, covering a
bunch of things that he called Harker the pro to
yes them right down to some slightly more mischievous topics
shall we say, which I don't need to repeat again,
but anyway, I check that out we podcast. But right
(01:13):
now it's time for the Parents Squad and my guest
is Sarah Chatwin, a psychologist.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
Hello, Sarah, liked it.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
You know, you know it's only because we've had the
discussions at Sarah or Sarah and then and when my
mind's racing suddenly it goes.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
All you just go to a bad default. Which one
was it?
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Now I always have to assume that when the when
the H is missing, it's Sarah. So anyway, welcome, How
are you really good?
Speaker 4 (01:38):
How are you?
Speaker 3 (01:38):
I'm not too bad.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
It sounds like the panel was.
Speaker 4 (01:41):
Very you know, liberating and uplifting and energetic.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
If only we could have broadcast the bits that were
in the ads, that would have been anyway. Hey, you know, look,
there's a lot of in politics right now. And of
course we've seen the Hekoy and there was a school
principal who was encouraging kids to go on up. We've
seen TV and xetic executives getting a bit of getting
a bit of heat for going on it and posting
(02:05):
on their social media.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
But at an early age.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
So obviously parents influence their children because they're their parents.
But you know, while their frontal lobes are developing, managing
their political views, encouraging and doctrinating them. You know, there's
parents who make a point probably of trying to impart
(02:31):
to their children why their view of the universe and
the world and politics is the right one?
Speaker 3 (02:38):
Is there?
Speaker 2 (02:41):
Where's the line we should parents back off and say, well,
you know, I do believe this, but actually I should
probably let little Jimmy or little Julie make up our
own mind.
Speaker 4 (02:50):
Yeah, let them be kids. Well, I mean, I think
we've got to take age into consideration when you are
thinking about, you know, indoctrination. I don't like that word,
and I don't think parents should do that to children.
But I think if you're talking about young children, I mean,
is there really a need for them to be part
of a political environment when they've got a lot of
other stuff going on? And you're quite right, I mean,
(03:12):
you know, minds are developing, but children pick up on
their parents' emotions, and that includes responses to political ideology.
So if there is a child growing up in a
very politicized kind of environment, they are going to pick
up on it. I think a key point is that
if children of any age come to you as a
(03:33):
parent asking questions, then sure open the pathways of communication up.
If you are attending a political event as a family,
well in who's to question that because that's a parenting
choice and parents are obviously the architects of their children's destiny. However,
you know, kids probably need time to just be kids,
(03:54):
and they've got a lot to deal with and there's
a lot of growth that occurs you know, physiologically, brain wise,
and also they're not necessarily equipped. They are not equipped
from an early age even in terms of you know,
cerebral stuff to deal with huge and complex issues because
they have very rudimentary brains that are still you know, in.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
Terms of unless they have been unless they are that
special kid who's a huge consumer of history and politics
and things, then really the view of the world is
pretty limited.
Speaker 4 (04:28):
Hey, and you are not that child at five or
four or six or seven. I mean, children's anxiety can
be exacerpated by their parents' ideology indirectly and unintentionally. But
kids can pick up on you know, anger or you know,
robust discussion that tips over into you know, emotional stuff,
and they can have heightened levels of anxiety. So I
(04:51):
guess parents possibly just need to take a you know,
take a breath, take a pause, and think, so is
this necessary? Is this what I really want from my child?
Speaker 3 (05:00):
Yeah? So, look, I want to hear from you.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
We want to hear from you on eight hundred and
eighty ten eighty How hard should you push your political
ideals onto your kids? Because there is also the question
that arises that, for instance, this is not political at all.
But my dad was a forestry scientist and he loved nature,
and look so do I. But he would often when
(05:22):
we're going for a walk or something, he'd rattle off
the names of the different species, and it probably meant
the last thing I ever wanted to do was to
be a forestry scientists.
Speaker 4 (05:31):
That right, he was probably hoping for the exact opposite.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
Well, I don't think actually, to be honest, I think
he was just sharing what he loved. But I think
sometimes if you expect that you pushing your views onto
your kids is going to mean that they're going to
end up voting for your political sort of choices. I mean,
rebellion does tend to play a part with kids, doesn't it.
Speaker 4 (05:51):
Well, certainly, if you're heading into those adolescent years and
you haven't had a a specially good relationship with your parent,
and you know there's a hard influence in a specific direction,
you might find that absolutely kids will go in the
opposite direction. But I mean, is that right to do
that as a parent? Is it right not to just
allow kids options and opportunities and allow them an understanding
(06:14):
of all views and then see where it lands with
that particular child. Is that not a more fair way
to go about.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
I should share probably what I do with my kids
in that. And they've asked a few questions and expressed
different points of view because they've seen a headline of something.
And I'll usually just ask them a couple of questions
and say or I'll tell them, look, my opinion is
slightly different to that, but I don't tell them that
(06:43):
they're wrong. I say, you'll have to make up your
own mind. I literally say that. I said, look, my
opinion is this. I think you need to make up
your own mind. But it's worth considering. Here are a
few questions you could ask yourself about that. Why why
are we not hearing that other side of the story,
or why is that wrong? And can you imagine a
situation where that person's point of view is just as valid?
(07:04):
And then I leave it there, and the way they.
Speaker 4 (07:05):
Go, you're presenting your position in a more fair light,
and you're giving them the opportunity to ask questions and
have questions answered. So that's a dialogue, that's not a monologue,
that's a that's not a type of indoctrination. That's giving
children some information allowing them to run with it and
then you know, I'm a great proponent of leave, of
(07:27):
opening those pathways of communication and allowing children to come
back to you, you know when and if they want.
But I think indoctrination, no forcing kids to do stuff.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
Oh, indoctrination. It's such a strong word, but effectively I mean,
I mean it's an inflammatory word, isn't it. But without
getting carried away with ourselves, you could argue any form
of instruction and telling your kids how the world works
as indoctrination. I mean religions, the classic one. I mean, oh,
I mean I've been thinking politics and almost almost ignoring
(07:58):
the elephant in the room of what the big issues
in life are. Because some might say that if you
take your kids to long to church or not, I
guess you're in I mean, most parents, if they are religious,
they will it's not POSI fool around. They will indoctrinate
their kids into their religion because they believe it's not
just a question of political thing. They are convinced that
(08:19):
this is the way things are.
Speaker 4 (08:22):
And then children come to a certain age, where as
you say there could be rebellion, there is a lot
more question asking. I mean, teenagers will not just sit
there and allow their parents to say this is what
it is, this is how it goes, this is what
you will do. They say, But hang on, I feel
like this or I want to do this. So there
(08:42):
is a point where it becomes more of a discussion.
So indoctrination, I mean, sure, you know, I'm not sure
about people out there who indoctrinate. I don't personally know many.
I know a lot of people who give kids options
and allow them to have a discussion at an appropriate age.
But certainly, as a parent, you have a responsibility to
(09:03):
care for your children, and I guess some parents have
different ways of doing that than others. But yeah, I
think indoctrination is just another it's an inflammatory term. I
mean influence.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
Istry slightly mischievously, but only you've got that mischievous look.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
It's a wonderful thing about radio.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
But yeah, but I guess that's the question about we
want you. You want to influence your children to be
good people, to have a good set of values, and
to have successful you know, have I mean even defining
success for them. It will be up for them in
the end. But you want to set them up to
be happy, I guess, And it is an interesting question
as to how far you push certain things, because I
(09:45):
know lots of people who have, for instance, very religious
parents and they're completely non religious because somehow it didn't
rub off even though.
Speaker 4 (09:54):
Yea, even though it was there. Well, I guess, and
I've known families like that too, and I've I've actually
been very impressed with the fact that the parents have
remained on their course, but equally they've accepted that their children,
you know, have made different decisions as they've become teenagers
and beyond, and the family unit still works. It doesn't
mean I mean, it's more about having views and being
(10:19):
you know, responsible in terms of your parenting of young children,
and then allowing children to kind of, you know, do
their thing and make their own decisions as they age
and as they get to a point where they're able
to do that. But I mean, there is a reason
that we don't let seven year olds vote.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
There is a rest Well, actually I would, I would say,
and there's a reason we don't.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
After sixteen year old's vote.
Speaker 4 (10:41):
Well, that's right.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
I mean, how long have you really been around forming
a bit of experience in the world. There are exceptions.
I work with someone who's an exception to that it
was politically active from quite an early age, but.
Speaker 4 (10:50):
Generally yeah, well, you know, life is all about continuums,
so you are going to have exceptions and then everybody
you know, everything else in between. But yeah, I mean,
I think that giving children the opportunity to see all sides,
to hear different stories, to gather facts from several sources,
(11:11):
whether it's parents, grandparents, and then to you know, encourage
them to make their own decisions under the umbrella of
you know, of course there's influence you know in the
family home and in the parental and family set up,
but I just don't think pushing them into things and
necessarily yeah, I mean, for a lot of kids, having
(11:33):
a day off school to go to a political rally
is just a day off school, doesn't mean that much.
Speaker 3 (11:39):
Well yeah, I'm I don't know what.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
I haven't crossed that bridge yet. If my kids wanted
to take time off school to go attend a political rally,
and I don't really know what I think because my
as someone who's not quite at that cusp of making
those decisions, Yeah, I would lean to you, blomen whilest
at school and do your classes. You take time off
when you're second when you've got Yeah, I think schools
(12:05):
for school.
Speaker 3 (12:06):
You read about it in the news.
Speaker 4 (12:07):
You know, and you can see it online. You can
access you know, the visuals and the input another way
without taking time off.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
I can imagine the only it would be probably cause related.
If if the cause was I want to be able
to vote at sixteen versus eighteen, maybe I'd say, okay.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
If you really feel it strong. None, I think i'd
be nut. But I don't know.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
I could change my mind on that one and flip
flop you what did you do as a as a
mum with did you ever have to face those.
Speaker 4 (12:34):
No, I actually didn't know. That wasn't something I came
up against. I probably would have had the discussion because
I really like leaving those pathways of communication open. But
I think that it would depend for me on the
child on the day, what they had going on at school.
For example, if it was a teacher's only day, no
problem there because they're not at school. If it was
an exam day, no, I.
Speaker 3 (12:56):
Think that's an easy one.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
Okay, you've got an exam line.
Speaker 4 (13:00):
Well, but if it was equally, if it was a
class that I felt they needed to attend, because perhaps
that was a subject that they found difficult. No, I
would probably say, probably go to school. What are your
reasons for you know, because this is really important in
terms of your ongoing education. You can access the information
on the TV, through a print media or online, so
(13:23):
there are options where by children don't have to miss
out on school or things like that. But of course
there are also family dictates, and a lot of families,
you know, think it's important for their children to be
part of a ekoi or a political event or something
like that.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
The question around attending a protest is I guess it's
just what are the questions you would ask as a
parent for yourself as to how you responded to that.
And I think what you've suggested, Yeah, if they've got
some important classes age wise, I mean, look, if they're
eight or nine and then whatever to protest, I'm like,
you're kidding. But when you get to the say fifteen
(14:00):
or sixteen or seventeen, maybe there is a nuance to
that you can be a little flexible.
Speaker 4 (14:05):
And I think that if you're an authoritative parent and
you choose that more flexible parenting style, then you will
be open to having conversations with your children. I mean
children can benefit or so the research suggests, from learning
to be open to different viewpoints even if you don't
agree with them and they don't agree with them, but
just letting that information wash over them, seeing how it lands,
(14:28):
seeing how to fix them can be you know, enlightening
at the very least.
Speaker 3 (14:34):
Okay, we want to have from you on the political front.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
If your kids want to go and join a protest,
is it something you should encourage or Tom, you know what,
stay at school. You've got other priorities. You can protest
when you've when you've got a job, your employee gives
your permission, I don't know, give us a call. And
in terms of your own political opinions, how much should
you push those on your kids? Given that it might
(14:56):
not be a winning scenario If they're this type of
child who is likely to say what a mum and
dad believe, I'll do exactly the opposite. So it's not
always a winning tactics. So what that starts?
Speaker 3 (15:05):
Do you take to that?
Speaker 2 (15:07):
I eight one hundred eighty ten eighty text nine two
nine two. My guest is Sarah chap when she's a
psychologist with now tell us where people can get.
Speaker 4 (15:14):
In touch with you, so mind work stock coo dot
in Z. I am happy to answer any questions and
I've had some lovely feedback from people listening to the
Parenting Squad. You're quite a popular guide to with these conversations.
Speaker 3 (15:26):
I'll have to get you back things like that.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
Okay, it's twenty two past five News Talks ed B.
Speaker 4 (15:34):
Love me.
Speaker 5 (15:36):
Listen.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
Thank you so you can see.
Speaker 4 (15:41):
Stands so.
Speaker 5 (15:44):
Dostal you can see.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
Just welcome back to News Talks ed B. This is
the weekend collective and the Parents Squad my guest to
Sarah chap when she's a psychologist talking about politics in
the home and how much you should shove your politics
on your kids. And we're going to I think we're
going to move to the with a a little bit
more conversation. We're gonna take some calls in a second.
But I think there is a good argument that maybe
politics should be just left out altogether of the family
(16:12):
home and talk about anything. But is something we're going
to explore in a moment. But first let's take some calls. Matthew, Hello,
hello there.
Speaker 6 (16:23):
Yeah, I agree that you should leave politics out in
the home. Yep, where if you could come home and
they say I want to go to this protest. A
good question to ask them is why, what do they
understand about the protest? What do they really understand? And
where do they get the information? Is that a free
that's talk them into it?
Speaker 4 (16:43):
And what is their motivation? Those are great questions, Matthew.
That is exactly what I would be asking the kids
if they popped up with that.
Speaker 6 (16:52):
Yes, and do they understand what it means if they
get what they want? Do they really understand everything's interconnected?
Speaker 1 (17:04):
Yeah?
Speaker 6 (17:04):
In protest about how the British came to New Zealand
and colonized and it was a bad thing, you know what,
I think it wasn't the greatest thing. But if you
want to carry on that now you're actually dividing the country.
So you've got to ask people what does it do
for everyone?
Speaker 2 (17:24):
What would what would you say if they just said
I want to go because my friends are all going
and it sounds like it's an important issue, ask.
Speaker 6 (17:35):
Them the thing about it? So, yeah, okay, we'll go,
but really and ask them to observe what they see.
Ask other people at their process why are you here?
And you'll find most people don't know why they're.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
Actually that's probably that's actually that is actually quite a
good bit of advice, Matthew to just ask you because
if you're going to go on this, talk to people
and ask them why they're up, you know, why that
they're protesting, and have some conversations because.
Speaker 3 (18:04):
Yeah, it's not a bad idea, but we do.
Speaker 4 (18:07):
Have to be aware of peer group pressure. It's not
always the best reason to do anything, really, but I
get it.
Speaker 3 (18:13):
It's yeah, yeah, thanks, we call mate, appreciate it.
Speaker 5 (18:17):
Jan.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
Hi, It's Jen, Yes, I know hello Jan? How are you?
Speaker 4 (18:23):
He got your name right? Jack?
Speaker 7 (18:25):
It sounded like a high parent. Now that's South Wellington
Intermediate principle allowing their children the day off to go
and join that protest in Wellington. The eleven twelve year
(18:45):
old children, their parents will have to drive them into
central City to the Parliament and if anything, if they
can go by the last protest where it became extremely
violent and dangerous all hell broke out. I think any
parent that wants to go in there and risk putting
(19:10):
their children through all that sort of helf need to
have their heads checked.
Speaker 3 (19:16):
Actually, that is a point, isn't it.
Speaker 7 (19:17):
At school as well?
Speaker 3 (19:19):
That is a point.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
Actually, if there's a potential for violence and things, I
mean we can think about that, we can think about
protests that have gone the wrong way. I hadn't even
thought about that from that personal.
Speaker 4 (19:27):
Safety and that's what parents have.
Speaker 7 (19:30):
To play with them as well. So it's a very
bad decision making. The better thing those parents need to
take their children home and keep them right out of it.
That's my opinion.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
Well, because we've got that, thanks, thanks Jans Jan, because
we've got that issue where yeah, the Wellington Girls principal,
Oh no, sorry, there's sorry, there's a there are some
there was a principal who was encouraging kids to go
on the protest or the he coin things like that,
and let's keep the politics out of it. But I
tend to think, well, there's a political aspect of that
(20:04):
that school principles should simply keep. I mean, as public servants,
you should keep your own thoughts and encouragements on politics
out of it.
Speaker 4 (20:10):
But also, how do they know the setup in each
one of those children's families. I mean, there may not
have been mum and dad's available, as Jan mentioned, to
get the children to point a and to have them
monitor and look after them. And equally, she pointed out
she made a valid point about violence or if something happens,
I mean, maybe even somebody carrying a glass bottle or
(20:32):
something breaks and it cuts. I mean, there are so
many things that can happen, and we really need to
look after our children. And of course, again age dependent,
you can't just be putting children up for this. It
has to be a well thought out and strategized kind
of plan if you are a parent that wants your
children your child to engage in this.
Speaker 3 (20:51):
There is another angle you mentioned.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
We were just chatting before we came back on air,
and it's about how political discussions around in the home
actually can be the cause of anxiety in kids, and
maybe there's an to just avoid it all together.
Speaker 4 (21:06):
Well, there is an argument for that. I'm not sure
you know whether some families who are politicized would react
to that. But what I think we've got to understand
is children's brains are developing. They don't have, you know, experience,
and it's very age dependent. And I think they are
not only listening to their parents' words, they're sensitive to
(21:26):
their parents' facial expressions and tone of voice. So you know,
a lot of political conversations get fairly aggressive, and you know,
the tone is raised and it can become quite volatile,
and children are very sensitized to this. So when I
was looking at the research term, I do do a
bit of prep for these, you know, I know you
wouldn't believe it, would you, but I do. I was
(21:48):
reading over and over again that the research suggests that,
you know, these kind of conversations, particularly for children ten
and under, are quite anxiety provoking. So that's not what
I'd want to put my kid through.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
So, yeah, as soon as you mentioned that about the anxiety,
I mean, it's just especially if I mean, I don't
know how couples go and they've got different points of
view on politics. Probably they don't talk about politics, i'd
say most of the time. But as soon as you
mentioned the prospects for a bit of anxiety, I suddenly thought, actually,
you know what, I just keep the political talk well
(22:20):
out of it.
Speaker 4 (22:20):
Well, that also speaks too, adults not bringing children into
adult conversation, and that is dictated by the culture of
the family. For example, there are a lot of families,
particularly families you know, undergoing a little bit of you know,
whether it's separation or those kind of issues where parents
bring children and sometimes small children are four, five, six
(22:44):
to ten into adult conversation and it's just not right.
Children don't cope well with that. They want to be children.
In fact, I was talking to a colleague about this
issue and he said that some kids actually feel like
they'd like to go and live in a desert island
rather than hear mum and dad you know, fight or
get aggressive about politics or religion or any of those things.
They just don't want to be part of it.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
That also ties into just arguing in front of the
kids actually, and how much you should avoid that, because
how much should you avoid having because there is that
example of you know, not avoiding reality that of course
mum and dad are going to have arguments, but we
love each other and we talk and seeing you also
work it out as well.
Speaker 4 (23:24):
Yes, well that's nice if parents, well it's not nice
to argue, but if parents argue and then are able
to explain to their children why it happened, and you know,
tempers were a bit afraid, and I was a bit tired,
and you know, we got into this and we're terribly sorry.
We shouldn't do this.
Speaker 2 (23:41):
All the time.
Speaker 4 (23:41):
That's okay. But a lot of parents argue and then
just leave their kids anchored to that space without any
explanation or kindness around how to get out of that space.
So we've got to Yeah, I mean, I don't think
arguing in front of kids is what we want, but
certainly it is part of that family landscape. But if
you can talk to your children about what happens and
(24:04):
that there is a lot of love in the situation,
and you know, these things do pop up from time
to time. But I mean, if you're exposing children to
aggressive political talk or you know, volatile conversations, I don't
think that's going to end well for their psychological or
you know, psycho emotional well being.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
Okay, look, let's take some more calls on this.
Speaker 5 (24:25):
Pete, Hello, they great, Hi, Pete can look. I just
want to say quickly, me and my son he's he three.
Now we've got a mocapoon a grandson. He's ten, lovely
and I go around the once a week to stay overnight.
So me and my son two a bit of meat
(24:48):
of the old said and talk about politics. But we
don't do it in aggressive men. It's call and nice. No,
I say the good stuff. I talk back there, Timber,
I'm just saying dim he does that. He didn't in
my son when he was eight years of age, John
the serious protast with the GE proteast genetic engineered food,
(25:15):
and the any thing I told him was that GE
food is pressed to food in we're proteasting, they have
real food. Really stated, Well, it's basically where we're talking
them about it.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
Yeah, well, did you explain that you've been eating a
lot of GE food because you probably have been, Pete.
Speaker 3 (25:30):
But anyway, Hey, thanks for call th right.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
Regarding as if you text here, indoctrination isn't needed for
the children of the wealthy who tend to automatically.
Speaker 3 (25:39):
Oh, this is an interesting one. It does sound a
little loteresting. Well okay, okay, I'll start it again.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
Indoctrination. Indoctrination isn't needed for the children of the wealthy
who tend to automatically lean to the right, because it's
the ideology that suits the continuance of the status quo
that allows their ongoing comfort. Regards Owen, I think that's
one hundred percent wrong, and I think that the kids
who the kids who haven't had to work for the
money can be quite free with their political values because
(26:07):
easy coming. It's I think you will often find that
kids who are born into wealth can quite comfortably be
to the left side of the ledger because and their
parents might be to the right because they'll have a
view as to what got them there and et cetera,
and they might be leaning conservatively.
Speaker 3 (26:23):
But I don't know.
Speaker 4 (26:24):
I think Owen got very deep and of course you
can make broad generalizations like that, and I'm not sure
that that's helpful as it and I.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
Somehow think that, I don't know, we've just had cold
planned town. I'm guessing that Chris Martin, Gwyneth Powtrow's kids
probably mildly liberal, and their liberal and left in their
points of view, and.
Speaker 4 (26:43):
Yet gazillionaires, well maybe not.
Speaker 3 (26:46):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
Anyway, Thanks for your text on that, Tim, Brain development
miss is the concept of consequences until about twenty five
years old. Based on this, voting, smoking, drinking should be
all pushed out to twenty five years Well, you can
make an.
Speaker 3 (27:01):
Argument for that.
Speaker 4 (27:02):
I actually think you can make an argument for that,
because who was that Texter? Did we have a name?
Speaker 2 (27:08):
L K LK?
Speaker 4 (27:11):
You know so much research suggests that, you know, the
brain is an ongoing and very unknown landscape, even for
the best of neurosurgeons and doctors. So yeah, there is
an argument to be made for pushing things like certainly
you know, alcohol, drugs, anything like that, not that you
should probably stay away from all of that, tim to
be honest.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
Yeah, another one here. My eleven year old son came
home from school on Friday and his teacher was talking
about the protest. One kid said, why are they protesting?
And the teacher's answer was, David Seymour was trying to
steal all of our land because we owned all That's
who reckoning to primary school kids.
Speaker 3 (27:43):
Oh out, wow, that's just the teachers an idiot.
Speaker 4 (27:47):
Well that's really not I mean, if you look at
the research, language like that is quite anxiety provoking. That's
not empowering children to handle a situation. That's not encouraging
them to listen to each other and to understand other
people's points of view. So that's clearly not a great
stance to take as a teacher. That's very a biased stance, right.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
Actually, yeah, I'm forgetting whether you agree with the opinion
or not, just the fact that a teacher would express
that political opinion to kids who she's she or he
are responsible for teaching. I think is should be a
sackable offense, to be honest. But anyway, that's me being
a little bit inflammatory. But I frown upon it, so
we put it that way. Twenty two minutes to six,
News Talk said, be we'll be back in just a moment.
(28:31):
We loved your cause that The simple question is around
the politics. I think the clearest way to put it
is in the families? Is politics best left out altogether?
Because you know what political discussions? Are they ever really
that happy? Are you just contributing to the anxiety of
your household? Leave it out, Just talk about something else.
I don't know the weather, how their sports going, how
(28:51):
their English is going, or you know, the maths or whatever,
anything but politics.
Speaker 3 (28:56):
What do you reckon?
Speaker 2 (28:56):
Oh, one hundred and eighty ten to eighty twenty two
minutes to six, and welcome back to the Weekend Collective.
(29:23):
I'mton Beveridge. I think if from Man Travers is planning
on doing any coldplay, we've stolen most of his thunder
by playing for your coldplayer songs, so I'm not sure
what he's got planned From my day, but we'll maybe
have a quick chat with him or work it out.
So I can just give you a little teaser. But
this is the parents Squad, my guest to Sarah Chat
when she's a psychologist with Mind Works, and we're talking
about whether you should leave political discussion basically out of
(29:45):
the family home or are you one of those parents
who you know you believe in the ex political party
and you're going to tell your kid why they should
follow along in your footsteps as well, because it's the
only way to look at life.
Speaker 3 (29:57):
Eight hundred eighty ten. Eight Oh.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
By the way, Steve asked me some forgot asks me
if I've got COVID because he's heard me calping in
the ground there. No, I don't, Steve, Thanks for asking.
Speaker 3 (30:07):
It's just one of those bugs I know, just that
Eric of a little about three or four weeks ago.
Every now and again, it's just irritating.
Speaker 4 (30:14):
But no, it's not nice.
Speaker 3 (30:16):
I don't think I'm the only one.
Speaker 4 (30:17):
No, you're certainly not just getting back.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
To the the the political side of things and the
arguing in.
Speaker 3 (30:25):
Front of children.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
How do how should you manage that if your parents
are thinking? You know, because obviously when you're in an
argument from a mind, you're not really thinking logically because
you're having an argument because you're annoyed and something.
Speaker 4 (30:41):
So as we've had this conversation and it's and it's
gone on, I'm thinking to myself, Okay, what's one of
the better case scenarios that we can work with? What
about this for parents? What about parents? You know, mums
and dads. They come together. They probably you know, they're
not brought up by the same parents, are they, so
they you know, they get mad, they come together, they're together.
Whatever they have differing political political views, what say they
(31:03):
are able to talk about politics whenever they want to,
you know, amongst themselves. But why don't parents just wait
until their children ask them and see what crops up?
Speaker 6 (31:15):
There?
Speaker 4 (31:15):
Isn't that a more organic way of children coming to
a place where they actively either want to be involved
because they're generating questions around it. So in more politicized households,
you might be having slightly younger children asking the questions
and mums and dads answer them. The research says that
if children are asking these questions, it's great to answer them,
(31:39):
but it's also extremely important to allow children the opportunity
to see all sides of the issues and to acknowledge
all perspectives. So that is quite nice. So I guess
an answer to your question, maybe if mums and dads
keep their views to themselves, that's adult talk. Over and above,
say to the age of ten twelve, and then let's
see when the kids come to them and start asking questions.
(32:02):
When they do answer those questions, allow them as much
information as you can give them, you know that's relevant
and acceptable for that age group, and then take it
from there. Is that not a more measured and reasonable approach.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
Another question here says what about the kids? What about
for the kids themselves? Is it healthy for them to
be learning so much at a young age, and obviously
on the politics things, when they really should be focusing
on some simpler things like basic maths and English.
Speaker 4 (32:29):
I love keeping things really simple. I think we have
with social media. Things have gone absolutely crazy in terms
of the input that children have, and it's not necessarily
healthy input when you think of all of that, and
it's so nice to be able to just decompress, you know,
lean into green space, get out in the environment, play,
get active, exercise, So politics would be down my list.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
Actually, yeah, I've suddenly forgotten about the elephant in the room.
That is probably the political issue.
Speaker 4 (32:58):
We've had so many elephants in this room till.
Speaker 2 (32:59):
There are there's a heap which makes up for the
one that was shipped over to Australia.
Speaker 3 (33:05):
In Australia, I was sad.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
Yeah, is the big issue around climate because that is
one of the issues where schools talk about it from
a science point of view. One would hope it's mainly
from the science point of view.
Speaker 3 (33:20):
But.
Speaker 2 (33:23):
I think I'm not sure where to go with it
because I'll be honest, sometimes when I see stuff on
the climate on the news and it's, you know, another
headline about something bad, I.
Speaker 3 (33:33):
Just switch it off doom and gloom.
Speaker 2 (33:35):
Because I think that it's of all the anxiety inducing
issues in politics, it's probably the issue around climate change
where kids are told there's this problem. If we don't
do this, then you know, we're all screwed. And I
really push back against that sort of narrative because it's
so full of despair and negativity.
Speaker 4 (33:57):
Well, that's correct. I mean, there's a lot of things
that are changing in terms of us stepping back from
deficit to oriented approaches, which you know, you know they're
sca mungering, and you know it's really harmful for children.
Now you imagine a five year old hearing that, gee,
if we don't clean up our environment, the world's going
to explode. I mean, when we use a motive language,
(34:20):
and we when we allow children of certain ages, you know,
those younger age groups to listen to this, of course,
it can have harmful and damaging effects. I've heard of
kids having flashbacks and nightmares over this kind of stuff.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
So I guess my generation was about nuclear war because
we really were. My generation was terrified of nuclear war.
I just say to my kids, look, you know, look
at the amazing progress that humanity has made, and the
things invented will find a way.
Speaker 4 (34:45):
There will be souts to navigate our way through.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
Yeah, And I remind them of what, you know, because
this generation catastrophizes everything as oh that's a summary, that's
no sorry. At the moment, a lot of the stuff
in the media is catastrophizing things.
Speaker 4 (34:59):
I agree, and I just.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
Say, well, imagine what it was like growing up in
World War Two. You would have thought that that was
the end. And every generation has these things. But we
find our way through so.
Speaker 4 (35:10):
And also we take personal responsibility to do our personal
thing for the environment, So you know, we pick up
our rubbish and we do what we can do because
that's all we have control over. So it's it's nice
to be teaching those lessons to kids. But also yeah,
you know, kind of debunking or down playing that really
doomsday stuff.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
Yeah, yeah, and chill out, mum and dad. If you
happen to be a climate activist, don't give your kids
all sorts of hang ups over it. And I'm not
saying we avoid it, but yeah, but yeah, I think
for me it's probably I leave the politics off the
table until the kids bring it up.
Speaker 4 (35:45):
It's probably it's quite a nice reasonable approach to, you know,
bringing that conversation. If that conversation occurs, deal with it.
Speaker 3 (35:52):
Then face Sarah.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
Lovely to see you again, Tom, I mean, Tim got
it right. I know you did well done. If you
want to check out Sarah's Sarah's work, or you want
to get in touch, go and look for mind Works
mindworks dot co dot nz.
Speaker 4 (36:06):
That's the one.
Speaker 3 (36:07):
Thanks for joining us. We'll catch you again.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
We'll be wrapping sport in just a moment with Jason Pine,
and this is News Talk seed B. It's twelve minutes
to second.
Speaker 1 (36:15):
For more from the weekend collective, listen live to News
Talk SEDB weekends from three pm, or follow the podcast
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