Full Show Podcast: 11 August 2024

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sunday Session podcast with Francesca Rudkin
from News Talks EDB. Welcome to the Sunday Session with
Francesca Rudkin and Wiggles for the best selection of great
reeds Used Talks EDB.

Speaker 2 (00:28):
Good morning, Welcome to the Sunday Session. I'm Franchesca Rudkin,
with you until midday. What a night for the kiwis
in Paris. Gold, the Carrington Gold, the co and Gold,
the cur Gee. I'm going to miss these Olympics. Lydia
Coe is with us shortly on the show and Chief
the Mission Nigel Avery also joins us to wrap up
the games. Nothing like three gold medals to distract us

(00:50):
from an all blacksloths. Is there more on that later
on the show as well. We have some extraordinary Kiwis
with us today sharing their unique life stories. In twenty eleven,
following the Tallyban siege on Carble's Intercontinental Hotel in New Zealand,
the essayes officer only identified as Serviceman Jay, was awarded
the second highest military honor in the New Zealand says

(01:13):
Serviceman j is Jamie Pannell. After eighteen years in the military,
who's moved on and now feels it's the right time
to talk about his experiences in the military for the
first time. He's written a memoir. It's called Serviceman j
and he joins me after ten and after eleven. Sam Gibson,
also known as Sam the trap Man, joins me to
share some of his cracking yarns and tall tales from

(01:36):
the bush. We talk about how spending time in the
bush saved him as a young teenager, and the incredible
work he's been doing protecting our ecosystems. And as always,
you're most welcome to text any times throughout the morning.
Ninety two ninety.

Speaker 3 (01:48):
Two, it's a Sunday session.

Speaker 2 (01:53):
I am so pleased my children are almost through their
secondary education. I don't envy parents have young children heading
into the education system. Now education has become so politicized
it's hard for a parent who doesn't have any hands
on experience in education to know whether one party's evidence
based on good ideas or any better worse than any

(02:13):
other ideas, views, or opinions put forward. When the stats
show a constant decline over a long period of time,
naturally we lean towards change. It is broken, so it
needs fixing. How we fix it will always have fans
and detractors. But it's better to do something than nothing
at all. Right, But you shouldn't sell in the new
idea with fear and ideally not with opportunism either. It's

(02:37):
too important for both those things. When the government announced
the launch of their new mass curriculum last weekend, they
produced data that claimed was the impetus for them starting
the scheme early. The new data showed only twenty two
percent of year eight students were at or above the
curriculum level, fifteen percent were less than one year below
the level, and a whopping sixty three percent were more

(02:57):
than one year behind it. The Prime Minister said this
result was shocking but probably not surprising, and was emblematic
of a total system failure. The data came from a
curriculum insights report from Atago University that looked at Halwell's
students would do against the then draft version of a
new mass curriculum that the Labor Government was planning to

(03:19):
launch in twenty twenty six. So the children were actually
measured on a new curriculum, they were yet to be taught.
They had not studied it yet. Doctor Charles Darr, one
of the study authors, told Newsroom this week that the
results showed a change in curriculum and a new benchmarking
process rather than a change and achievement. Now, you could

(03:39):
still argue the results represent how far behind our children
are from where we want them to be, but it's
important to put the data into context. The state of
our education system is a concern for all of us,
whether we're students, parents, employers, or tertiary educators. We do
need to turn around declining numerously and literacy results. So
it's good to see some urgency, but stop making parents

(04:01):
think most kids are doomed. Heaps of kids are leaving
school with a good education and heading off to do
amazing things, some involving maths. Many don't, so let's focus
on making sure the changes are well resourced and can
be delivered successfully within the short preparation time. There isn't
as much evidence structure. There isn't as much evidence structured

(04:22):
maths works as well as structured literacy, and as we know,
kids learn differently to each other, so let's make sure
there is support for the students who don't respond to
a structured maths approach. Maybe it's also time for parents
to step up more as well. It feels increasingly that
many parents think teachers are alone responsible for the success
of their child's education, especially when they're young, but in reality,

(04:46):
success has always been a team effort by the student,
teacher and parents. Hopefully, with testing twice a year, all
parents will have a better understanding of where their child
is at and have the information they need to successfully
support their child's learning at home.

Speaker 3 (05:02):
For a Sunday Session.

Speaker 2 (05:06):
It is important to have a strong education system. We
need a better system. We need to compete on an
international level. But we shouldn't put pannic into parents because
it's actually going to take a couple of years to
see results and life goes on and we are still learning.
Can you hear from you if you've got a child
at primary level or about to start school. Are you
feeling positive about the Make It Count scheme? You can

(05:27):
text on ninety two ninety two coming up next. Gold
medallist Lydia cohors with us here on the Sunday Session.
It is twelve past nine, Grab Recover.

Speaker 1 (05:37):
It's the Sunday Session with Francesca Rudkin and Wiggles for
the Best selection of great brings used talk s'd be good.

Speaker 2 (05:44):
To have you with us. It was a golden night
for the kiwis in Paris.

Speaker 4 (05:48):
She's half a boat length a head of cheap match.
She's got the race face on the red Sunnys. It's Carrington,
Carrington coming down to the line. It is gonna be
gold for New Zealand's Lisa Carrington co.

Speaker 5 (06:04):
Parts through and it's down a golden glow for Lydia.

Speaker 6 (06:11):
Com weeks and years of training, Hamer's curve for the
gold medal, Kyways can fly and Heimuska scales his everest
and his high jump Olympic champion.

Speaker 2 (06:28):
Yeah, they still put us through the ringer with the
high jump this morning, didn't They add incredible three gold medals,
the most ever buy news by New Zealand and a
single day at the Olympics, taking us to nine gold
a total of eighteen medals. Only too shy of our
best ever medal haul in Tokyo so far, v Lydia Coe.
This completes a trio of Olympic medals with silver and

(06:48):
rio and bronze and Tokyo Women's gold, Women's golf golden
medalist Lydia Co joins me from a car somewhere on
the streets of Paris. Congratulations, Lydia. How are you feeling?

Speaker 7 (07:00):
Uh, you know, super, I think just like mixed emotions.
Uh no, I'm very excited and at the same time
like a sigh of relief that it's all done. But yeah,
it's been an unbelievable week and to be able to
come off with the gold medal, it really couldn't have
been any better.

Speaker 2 (07:21):
What was going through your mind when you sunk that
final part?

Speaker 8 (07:27):
I think just all emotions kind of came on me.

Speaker 7 (07:30):
I you know, it's not just the emotions from the
day or the event, but like everything that has happened,
and it just came down and you know a lot
of people like came to my mind as well.

Speaker 8 (07:43):
They aren't here with me, but.

Speaker 7 (07:45):
Yeah, it's just a lot of excitement and I think,
you know, I was tearing up going to the green,
but I wanted to make sure that I still focus
and got the job done. And yeah, when when that
finally went in, it was it just kind of everything
went straight.

Speaker 8 (08:01):
It came straight to me, and.

Speaker 2 (08:03):
I'm sure that there were a lot of New Zealanders
tearing up with you as well, when you were on
the diist receiving that gold, how much does it mean
to you?

Speaker 8 (08:13):
Oh? Yeah, it means a lot. There were quite a
lot of Kiwis that.

Speaker 7 (08:16):
Were, you know, coming out with our flag and then
the flag with the silver fern as well. So to
see all them here and I know we're very far
from home to come and support me, I was awesome.
And I feel like it's like because of them, you know,
I was able to you know, play really well and
feel comfortable. So yeah, it's honestly thanks to everyone that

(08:40):
was here and everyone watching from home too.

Speaker 2 (08:42):
Lydiah, this is an incredible feat a gold medal, three Olympics,
three medals, silver and rio bronze and Tokyo. You've completed
the set with the gold. From what I can tell,
you were the only golfer to get a complete set.

Speaker 8 (08:58):
Yeah.

Speaker 7 (08:59):
I think even when the men were done, I think
at the time being I had the most medals as
a golfer, so I thought it would be pretty cool
if I could meddle once again here and to win gold,
the one that I was missing. It's it's honestly like
a storyteller and I can't believe it happened.

Speaker 2 (09:19):
How are you feeling going into today in the lead?

Speaker 7 (09:24):
Yeah, obviously nervous, but I felt a little bit less
nervous in the other days. I think I just got
used to seeing them, you know, all the fans by
the first hall, and I just wanted to focus on me.
And you know, the fans have been just awesome, obviously
the Kiwis, but maybe even the French fans. They were saying,
like all Lydiaz, I felt like I kind of became

(09:46):
one of their own as well, So that just made
me feel more comfortable.

Speaker 2 (09:49):
Aunt going into this final round. Is it different because
it's the Olympics or do you just treat it like
any other major tournament.

Speaker 8 (09:58):
I treated like any other event, just the same.

Speaker 7 (10:04):
Routines, you know, the same work with my physio, with
the physios in the morning. So I took every day
the same and you know, no different routine here than
any of our may other events.

Speaker 2 (10:18):
This win also qualifies you for the LPGA Hall of Fame.
You still need to be voted in to qualify, but
it wouldn't make you the thirty fifth living member. How
much would that mean to you?

Speaker 7 (10:30):
Yeah, it means a lot, and to have done it
by winning the gold medal.

Speaker 8 (10:35):
It really could.

Speaker 7 (10:36):
I couldn't have written it out any better. And yeah,
it's it became a goal of mine when I got
so close to it, and I I still don't know if, like,
oh man, I deserve to be in the Hall of Fame,
but it's so it's so cool that you know that's
going to be something that's next to my name for

(10:57):
forever pretty much.

Speaker 2 (10:58):
Absolutely, Hey, how have you found these Olympics compared with
Rio and Tokyo.

Speaker 7 (11:05):
It's I mean, in Tokyo, with circumstances were unique. You know,
this is kind of the first one since then where
it's back to normal. But yeah, it's I've honestly loved it.
I haven't personally stayed at the village, so it's I'm
sure that experience is really cool in that way, but

(11:27):
I've loved it. And to see all the fans here
embracing no woman's golf and sport, it's just it's just
a celebration of sport and this kind of this event
doesn't come around every year, so we were all just
really enjoying it and embracing the moment.

Speaker 2 (11:44):
And finally, Lydia, will you take part in the closing
ceremony and do you have any plans to sort of
enjoy Paris.

Speaker 8 (11:52):
No, I won't be staying for the.

Speaker 7 (11:58):
Staying for the closing ceremony because I'm playing in Scotland
next week, so I'm going to travel to their.

Speaker 2 (12:06):
Uputs and onwards and onto the next thing. Congratulations, incredible effort.

Speaker 8 (12:12):
Thank you so much, appreciate it.

Speaker 2 (12:14):
That was Lydia Co there and joining us very shortly
on the show. We will have the chef to mission,
Nigel Avery. We're going to just reflect on these games
which have I think it'd be fair to say have
it exceeded our expectations. It is twenty two past nine.
You're with the News Talks at B.

Speaker 1 (12:31):
It's the Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin on News Talks
at B.

Speaker 2 (12:36):
Yes, News Talks at B nine twenty four. Well, the
penultimate day of the paras Olympics has wrapped up and
as I said before, what a day it has been
for the Kiwi's our best ever three gold medals. We
just heard from Lydia Co. Here is Lisa Carrington after
her gold medal race.

Speaker 9 (12:56):
Yeah, it's incredible, it's it probably means I mean it
means a lot. I think, after achieving what we did
in the K four and the two, and then you know,
making an individual race like this a team event with
my three teammates on the sidelines cheering me on, I mean,

(13:16):
it's just special to have even I think that I
could have tried to achieve this, So yeah, I mean,
this one's really special.

Speaker 2 (13:25):
We also heard from Hamish Kerr, our high jumper who
won goal this morning and quite a long drawn out,
dramatic final here he is.

Speaker 10 (13:34):
Yeah, I can't, I don't quite put it into words.
I think that you know, I knew I was capable
of it, and I knew that the jumps were there.
I've spoken about it a lot, you know, I have
to trust. I know my team's good, I know my
process is really good. But to actually go out there
and excip, especially the way I did, I was in
abslot dream of true.

Speaker 2 (13:51):
Hamish Kurr will be with the Jason Pine and Weekend
Sport this afternoon as well. But you know, all good
things must come to an end and by this time
tomorrow she'll be all over. It goes by so fast,
doesn't it. I have just loved these Olympics and We've
had some fabulous moments to wrap it all up. New
Zealand Chiefter mission. Nigel Avery is with me now. Good

(14:11):
evening in Paris.

Speaker 3 (14:12):
Nigel, Good morning to you too.

Speaker 11 (14:15):
How are you?

Speaker 2 (14:16):
Oh?

Speaker 12 (14:16):
I'm good.

Speaker 2 (14:17):
What a night for the key weeds, Gold for Carrington,
gold for Co and gold for Hamish Kurd. Three gold medals.

Speaker 11 (14:25):
It's I think it's unprecedent. It's amazing and I don't
know about you. Haven't gotten any fingernails left after that
high jump.

Speaker 2 (14:32):
It was too much.

Speaker 11 (14:35):
It was awesome.

Speaker 2 (14:36):
Lisa Carrington eight career golds, three at this Olympics. You've
been out there the last few days. She's phenomenal, isn't she.

Speaker 11 (14:44):
She really has and like that that race today was
just incredible. Just she just absolutely smashed them. You know,
there's no two ways about it, and just proves that
she is right up there and then legion status and
her sport and then and for us as an Olympian,
clearly it can take something very special to pass what

(15:05):
she's done.

Speaker 2 (15:06):
Absolutely. I mean, her eight golds exceed that of Simone Biles.
It equals, you say, bolt when you think about how
highly regarded those two are. Do we appreciate just how
good she is.

Speaker 11 (15:20):
I hope so. But it's like, you know, it's not
it's not a sport that's like wide and New Zealand consciousness.
But once you start understanding her sport and others as well,
you truly appreciate just how good these people are. And
clearly she's very, very good. So you know, our hats
off to her and she's truly an amazing, amazing sports person.

Speaker 2 (15:42):
Nigel, we just talked to Lydia Coe on the show.
You were also at the golf today. You've got a
good job, haven't you. Gold for Lydia Coe overnight.

Speaker 11 (15:50):
She was pretty emotional, she was and my spend her
time with her sister as well, who was extremely emotional
then of it.

Speaker 13 (15:57):
That just just.

Speaker 11 (15:58):
Highlights the importance that you know, she and a place
on the Olympics and competing for the New Zealand team
beer and you know, she was just outstanding. I watched
her first most of her first round and much of
the final round and check out composed she is. She's
an amazing woman, just beautifully composed, obviously excellent what she does.

(16:19):
And now she's got the full seat gold, sil Ran
Bronze so Yeah, incredible for her and the family and
us as a team.

Speaker 2 (16:28):
And I know that you didn't go in with any
expectations when it comes to the medal Italian mind. And
we're not finished yet, we have another day to go.
But how is everyone feeling about New Zealand's achievement.

Speaker 14 (16:42):
Oh?

Speaker 11 (16:42):
Look, I think we're extremely proud of all our athletes.
We've had a chance to stand on the dicel or not,
they've all given their all and that's that's what I
was asking them to do leading into this, because we
know they all couldn't stand on that on the podium.
Having said that, to have nine gold medalists, you know,
I think I believe that's a record. I think it

(17:03):
was eight and nineteen eighty four in Los Angeles and
nine it's amazing. It's truly amazing for a country of
our size, what these young people have done is truly incredible.
We all should be so so proud of them.

Speaker 2 (17:17):
Yeah, I do feel like we've exceeded expectations. In Paris.

Speaker 11 (17:22):
Yeah, well, I think Tokyo was an amazing, amazing Olympiad
for New Zealand and Rio before that, and so look,
there's always the stars have got to be in alignment
and a lot of these things, because the thing you
can remember is there's many many other countries and athletes
what we're trying to do what we are, and so
with the difference between success and failure or not success,

(17:44):
I shouldn't say can be so small. Even the smallest
kind of mistakes that areas can result in quite a
significant impact on position. And so I guess we've the
stars have been aligned for many of ours and we're
fortunate to have them, and you know, hearts go out
to those who have been so drastically you know, you know,
tantalizingly close and like to be an example, you know,

(18:08):
if there's a fifty one meter Paul she would have
been standing on there, and Amy Fisher this morning. Had
it been a you know, fifty five hundred and two
meters race, she might have gotten there as well. So
you know, we've got also got to recognize the efforts
that those have made as well, because they are certainly
contributing to the success of the overall team result.

Speaker 2 (18:28):
Absolutely. When we talked before the games, we talked about
what a spectacle Paris was going to be. Did it
live up to the hype?

Speaker 11 (18:36):
Well, it certainly did. I mean, I don't know what
You've only got to look at the you know, the
cycling road race or the marathon and look at some
of the overhead shots of what they're showing at a city,
it's just extraordinarily beautiful, you know, the Palace of ih
for equestrian. You know, you're sitting on the on the
pont watching the triath and going this is just it's
just surreal. It's it's unbelievably beautiful. And so La and

(18:58):
Brislane they got a job to do to try and
try and match that.

Speaker 2 (19:02):
And have they been a good host?

Speaker 11 (19:05):
Very good? Yep, exceptional, very welcoming, helpful. You know, there's
always the grumbles the four Games, and I'm sure there
will be before La and Brisbane too from the locals
in particular about how much impact it's having on the
daily lives. But right about now they're super proud of
their country and the city and rightly so because they

(19:26):
put are on amazing events and I'm just really so
happy that the New Zealand teams contributed to that. The
success of the overall games.

Speaker 2 (19:34):
Now, You're right, the venues and the locations have been
the scenery has been absolutely spectacular. I think probably the
one thing that we have all been thinking was why
did they think it would be a good idea to
swim in the Seine? Was that probably the only haircut
venue wise? Do you think?

Speaker 11 (19:51):
I guess so, I suppose that was just playing for
no rain, and unfortunately it came down at maybe the
wrong times for them, but they got anything underway and
the program went off, and so yeah, there may have
been a few people that bricks didn't come away totally.

Speaker 7 (20:06):
Un but.

Speaker 11 (20:08):
I'm pretty sure who it is okay now and hopefully so.

Speaker 2 (20:11):
How have the athletes found the games? Looking online at
social media, it's just looked like a blast.

Speaker 11 (20:19):
Yeah, there's I think, well, young people, they make it,
take advantage of every opportunity, and you know, there's there's
a lot of sort of like minded, positive people in
these teams, and so there's lots of useful exuberance and
enthusiasm and excitement, and with social media in particularly, they're
right into it, and rightly so, because you know, the
amount of work and effort has gone in to get here,

(20:41):
even just to get here is enormous, and so you
can only imagine once competition's finished, you know, the handbrake
comes off and they can really really express themselves in
other areas away from away from the field of play.
So it's been it's been a wonderful environment to be
part of. It really really has.

Speaker 2 (20:56):
Maya Ramsden made the comment after her SEEMI about how
special the New Zealand team was, how you celebrated and
supported athletes when they returned to the village, and she
thought that that was quite unusual compared to other teams.

Speaker 11 (21:10):
Yeah, we look at all all the teams that I
think she's right. I think we really do try to
care and nurture for all our team members, whether they
have succeeded or haven't. Things haven't gone to plan. And
you know, I had to chat with her this morning.
She's need to go to see the physiotherapy to to
sort of message out of cheek. She's smiling so much

(21:32):
because she had a great time. She did her personal
beast on the biggest stage. You can't ask so better
than that. So you know, we just love supporting her
and everybody else. So it's a great environment that's been.
I guess the goal of our team is to create
that environment where people can succeed feel really welcomed, feel
like this a real true sense of belonging and give

(21:53):
them the best chance of getting out there and expressing
themselves in the field to play.

Speaker 2 (21:56):
There's just something so good about the Olympics, isn't there?
The way it brings people together. You see a lot
of the good in humanity at a time like this.

Speaker 11 (22:05):
You do, you really do. And as the games go on,
you're sort of, you know, walking through the village and
you know, you see athletes from different countries engaging with
each other and chatting and talking sitting on the grass.
It's it's really wonderful. It's it's a shame that, you know,
the rest of the four years can't be the same
with everybody.

Speaker 2 (22:25):
Yeah, how did you find your first Olympics as schifter mission?
What were the most complicated things you had to sort
of deal with to help the help the athletes?

Speaker 11 (22:35):
Look, I think yeah, I mean, look, there was there's
a few sort of tough moments just trying to navigate,
you know, getting the village set up and whatnot. There's
a few bit of heat and some you know, trans
you know, logistics kind of wasn't our friend, and it
wasn't for many others. And other nations. So I was,
I'm kind of wondering these I hope you hope you

(22:56):
get the uniforms in on time type moments. But we've
got a really really good team. They're dedicated, enthusiastic, and
very very good at what they do. So you know,
that's that's a really pleasing thing from my perspective because
that's really all we can contribute is going back to
that environment, making sure that when the athletes walk and
they feel like they really belong and anything to see

(23:16):
that for them. We do as much as we can
for them. I think we can't do is run out
on the field and help them. And so you know,
I think as much as we're sort of like, I'll
make you the wait list thing now and looking at
those bars at the moment backs Hurston even looking at them,
So I wouldn't want to get out there in the
South now.

Speaker 2 (23:31):
But that's your wahouse.

Speaker 11 (23:33):
Yeah, Like it's an amazing privilege and honor to be
in the position we're in and we're just just really
really delighted with obviously the medalists that plus all our
other athletes as well.

Speaker 2 (23:44):
How do you come down from something like that or
are you so exhausted you'll actually be quite happy to
all end.

Speaker 11 (23:50):
Yeah, it's one of those long haul flights you actually
do sleep on because yeah, it's been a bit lacking
all around really. So yeah, look there's act year. You know,
there's the postgames blues. It's noted whether you're as an
athlete or in a support role such as such as mine.
So yeah, you sort of just re engage with a family,
get back into work, set some new goals and sort

(24:11):
of carry on. But it's certainly it's kind of way
you remember when you know, back in think back to
school camp when you're work your mates for five or
seven days or whatever it is, and you come home
and you go, where are they? I can't go and
see now I'll mate down the hall because I'm at
home by myself. It's a little bit like that, but
on a larger scale.

Speaker 2 (24:33):
And finally the closing ceremony. Have many of the New
Zealand athletes been able to hang around for that?

Speaker 11 (24:40):
Yeah, so we're expecting around about one hundred athletes or so,
and we've been giving marching passes for one hundred and
thirty so a lot of the Performance support and Sports
Sports team will get to go to that, so we're
looking forward to that. The organizers jallous, it's going to
be a bit of a bit of a good show,
so we'll wait and see and I'm sure the LA
twenty eight component of that will be the razzle dazzle,

(25:02):
So yeah, if you guys want to set your arms
for that, it'll be good under watch.

Speaker 2 (25:07):
Nigel, thank you for your time. Well done on such
a successful Olympics, and thank you to you and your
whole team who have been supporting our athletes.

Speaker 11 (25:18):
Well, thank you very much your interests. We really really
appreciate it and we're all looking forward to to get back.
I'm down soon.

Speaker 2 (25:24):
I'm sure they are. That was Nigel Avery there from Paris,
just wrapping up the games. So you know how we're
always hearing about people who are traveling and something happens
and they get stuck somewhere and they end up having
to spend a night on an airport floor and then
finally they get home and it's been a huge drama.
Well imagine going to space for eight days only for
them to be a problem and you can't get home

(25:46):
for a year. Now, that is a real drama, and
that is what is currently taking place and has happened
to a couple of astronauts. We're going to find out
more about this next. It is twenty one to Tenure
with newstalksb.

Speaker 1 (26:01):
Sunday with Style, the Sunday Session with Francesca Rudkin and
for the best selection of great Reeds, He's talk now.

Speaker 2 (26:11):
One story that really did make me feel rather stressed
this week was the thought of rocketing up into space
for an expected eight day stay and then being told
that day might extend into next year. In early June,
astronauts Sonny Williams and Butch Wilmore left Earth on board
Boeing Staline A spacecraft. Due to technical issues on the craft,
They've been stranded at the International Space Station ever since.

(26:34):
This week it was announced it maybe early twenty twenty
five before they return home. What does all this mean
and how is it going to play out? Eric Berger
is the senior space editor for Ours Technica, and he
is worth me now from Houston.

Speaker 12 (26:48):
Morning.

Speaker 2 (26:49):
Eric, love you to talk to you again. Are you there?

Speaker 12 (26:53):
Eric?

Speaker 15 (26:56):
Hey?

Speaker 2 (26:57):
Eric, We'll try and get Eric on the line. I'm
not sure what's happened to Eric.

Speaker 8 (27:02):
You there.

Speaker 2 (27:05):
We'll work on that. I'll put Eric back to Carrie
and we will come back to that. Hey, somebody did
text me before and said, what happened to the cyclist
this morning? From what I can see here at the
end of day fifteen in Paris, Karen champion Alis Andrews
is through to the women's sprint semifinals, with the final
taking place late tonight. Sam Dakin has reached the men's

(27:27):
Karen quarterfinals, while Alie Williston lines up in the women's
omnium at the Valodrome. So that I think is where
we are at. There. I'm going to try Eric again now,
Good morning.

Speaker 13 (27:40):
Eric, Hello, Hi, thanks, well, goodness time.

Speaker 2 (27:44):
Well there you go. Good to have you with us. Hey,
tell me how big an issue is this, Fanessa and Boeing.

Speaker 13 (27:52):
It's a very big issue. It's probably the most consequential
human space like decision the Space Agency has faced since
the loss of Space Shuttle Columbia twenty one years ago.

Speaker 2 (28:04):
So where are things at?

Speaker 13 (28:07):
Well, NASA and Boeing have spent the last four or
five weeks conducting tests of the thrusters that have failed
on the Starliner spacecraft. They've been looking at data for
that and I expect that this in the coming week,
NASA will ultimate make a decision on whether Butch will
More and Sonny Williams will come back on Straline or

(28:29):
on Crew Dragon.

Speaker 2 (28:31):
So this is quite a major technical issue which has happened.

Speaker 13 (28:36):
It is, you know, these thrusters are small, they're not
particularly powerful. They're certainly less powerful than you know, like
a car engine or something like that. They're used to
basically orient the spacecraft as it flies through space and
for additional small bursts of thrust. The spacecraft does have
bigger engines, but if you lose these these thrusters, it's

(28:57):
critical because they're used to maneuver around and near the
International Space Stations. There is some slight risk that there
could be a problem the spacecraft could actually run into
the space station.

Speaker 2 (29:07):
So where is it sort of sitting now?

Speaker 13 (29:09):
Then, well, Starliner has been attached our dock to the
National Space Station for a couple of months.

Speaker 2 (29:19):
This is not ideal. So explain to me what these
options are to keep them back.

Speaker 13 (29:25):
Yeah, so NASA could decide that they think that the
spacecraft is safe enough that there won't be significant issues
with the thrusters during the return trip to Earth. And
it's a short trip it's about six hours once they
und docked from the space station, or they could say
now we're just not sure, and they would send Starliner

(29:46):
back autonomously so it would fly itself, and Butch and
Sonny would stay on the station for another six months,
and NASA would send up an additional spacecraft, a Dragon
spacecraft with two people instead of four, and then Butch
and Sonny would take two of those seats for return
journey home next February.

Speaker 2 (30:08):
This is no ideal, is it, Eric? When you hit
off for an eight eight day you know, you pack
for eight days, and then you find out that this
is potentially you're going to be there for six months
or potentially longer.

Speaker 13 (30:20):
Well, both Butch and Sunday lived south of Houston, not
far from where I live, and so I'm sure their
families are not not thrilled about this, but they did,
they did sign up for it, and one of the
things they ultimately trained for was an extended to their mission.
But it's certainly not ideal because you know, NASA has
been counting on Boeing to deliver a Starliner spacecraft that

(30:42):
can bring people safely to it from space for a
decade now, and this was supposed to be the mission
where that we're Boeing put all together and delivered that capability,
and that's obviously not happened.

Speaker 2 (30:53):
And I imagine if they send up a dragon ship
that's a SpaceX ship, that is also not a good
look for Boeing.

Speaker 13 (31:01):
That's extremely embarrassing for Boeing. You know, they were a
decade ago in these contray extra first awarded. Boweling was
the the gold plated, you know, industry leading standard company.
They were the big boys, and SpaceX was this startup company.
And a decade later, the roles are entirely reversed. So

(31:24):
you have the prospect of SpaceX launching a spacecraft to
rescue astronauts Boeing spacecraft is This is a terrible look
for Boweling at a time when they're facing all sorts
of struggles in other areas, including their commercial aircraft business.

Speaker 2 (31:36):
Have we heard from Butcher and Sonny? What messages are
they sending back home? How are they feeling about this.

Speaker 13 (31:42):
Publicly? Uh, They're saying that everything's fine. You know, they're
enjoying their time in space. They're you know, they're ready
to fly home on Starliner if that's the call, and
if it's dragon, they'll fly home on that. You know, privately,
we really don't know what they're saying. But these are
smart people, very smart people. They're paying attention. I'm sure

(32:04):
they have more have shared their concer with family owners
and the crew back home. I mean, I do know
that one of the voices inside the Space Agency that
is dissenting against kind of back on starliner is actually
the crew office, that's the astronaut office, it's Johnson Space Center,
and so they would be certainly having some influence.

Speaker 2 (32:25):
There is the International Space Station prepared for visitors, not
long term visitors, Eric, have they got the supplies and
things to be able to look after them.

Speaker 13 (32:37):
It's a bit of a strain, but the International Space
Station is a big place, and then there have been
more than you know, these are two extra people on
board of this facility, and there is the capacity for it,
and NASA can accommodate that by sending up additional food
and supplies on various spacecraft that has to provision the

(32:57):
space station. But yes, it is a strain on the facility.

Speaker 2 (33:01):
Oh, fascinating stuff. Thank you so much for talking us
through that.

Speaker 16 (33:04):
Eric.

Speaker 2 (33:05):
Appreciate that Eric is the senior Space editor at Ours Technica.
I first spoke to Eric Becker in twenty twenty one
when he released his book Lift Off, about the early
days of Elon Musk and SpaceX. Obviously, a lot has
happened in that time, so he's written a secral sequel.
It's called re Entry, and that is releasing next month.

(33:25):
It is eleven to ten news too.

Speaker 1 (33:26):
There b putting the tough questions to the newspeakers, the
mic asking breakfast.

Speaker 17 (33:31):
As if you, Minister Simian Browns will us when will
we know that?

Speaker 18 (33:33):
Alan Jube, Well, we've got a piece of work underway
at the moment around that, but.

Speaker 13 (33:37):
There's some pretty key decisions that need to be made.

Speaker 17 (33:39):
What about And I know what the power companies will say,
especially the gen Taylors. When Onslow was on the scene,
they didn't see the need to invest in any more capacity.
Is that a fair argument or not?

Speaker 18 (33:48):
Well, that was an absolutely fair argument at the time,
but we've taken that off the table.

Speaker 11 (33:52):
We've made it very clear.

Speaker 18 (33:53):
That we're not going to be building a big mess
of Onslow.

Speaker 13 (33:56):
But at the same time, we need to see these
guys investing.

Speaker 17 (33:59):
Why would they they're making money like this?

Speaker 3 (34:01):
Know tomorrow.

Speaker 18 (34:02):
Well, ultimately that's why we also need to make it
easier for other people to enter the market too.

Speaker 13 (34:05):
And it's got fast tracks.

Speaker 17 (34:06):
It's all about back tomorrow at six am the Mic
asking Breakfast with the Rain, drover of the Lame News
Talk zedb.

Speaker 1 (34:12):
Sunday with Style the Sunday Session with Francesca Rudkin and
Winkles for the best selection of great Reeds heu'se.

Speaker 2 (34:20):
Talk zedby thank of your text this morning. Great to
hear so many of you have been enjoying the Olympics
as well, quite a few of you making the call
Dame Lydia Coe surely now And I noticed in the
Herald actually they were just after taking a look at
the night we've had in Paris, they were already saying, gosh,
isn't it going to be interesting to see what happens

(34:42):
next year at the Halberg Awards? Who is going to
take out the Halburg Halburg Supreme Award? Already talking about this.
It's not even until February, but I know that we
are many people's minds, and of course I'm pretty sure
that Lisa Carrington talk about this year hard to beat,
wouldn't it? Hey, look I want to mention very quickly.
We've got a new episode of our podcast, The Little
Things Out, the podcast I do with my friend Louise Airy.

(35:05):
Our guests on the podcast this week is Joe crib
She's had a very successful career in the corporate world
and she runs their own consultancy firm and things. But
she is a leading champion of women in the workplace
and wants to reframe the way that we talk about
middle aged women in the workforce. She's very much an advocation.
We talk about all this stuff actually about gender pay gap,

(35:27):
and she joins us to talk about how women can
get more out of their employer, what value women, especially
middle aged women, bringers employees. We talk about the motherhood penalty,
and she's all for getting women back into the workforce,
especially if you know you've taken a bit of time
out and had some kids and things. So really worth
taking a listen to, especially if you're just thinking of yourself,
Oh my, you know, my thinking is it's time for change.

(35:49):
I need a bit of a challenge. We also have
two copies of Joe's book to give away. She's written
a new book, co written it. It's called Don't Worry
about the Robots. It's a very practical guide to managing
the high speed change ahead for workers, definitely in the
face of AI. So it's written for anyone whose job
leaves them unchallenged and unfulfilled thinking about career changes, and

(36:10):
for those worried about job security and our future employment prospects.
It's also great for those who are starting work for
the first time. So if you'd like to get your
hands on a copy of Joe's book, Don't Worry about
the Robots, all you have to do is text your
full name and the word robot to ninety two ninety
two and carry'll select a couple of winners. It is

(36:30):
six minutes to tenure with News Talks VB.

Speaker 3 (36:33):
Keep It's simple. It's Sunday the Sunday.

Speaker 1 (36:36):
Session with Francesca Rudkin and Wiggles for the best selection
of graverys News.

Speaker 3 (36:41):
Talks MB.

Speaker 12 (36:43):
Right.

Speaker 2 (36:44):
Ex Commander Jamie Panell served as a soldier and a
leader in the New Zealand SAS for eighteen years, and
he was deployed to Afghanistan four times. Very little is
known about the reality of being an SAS soldier until now.
In his new book, Serviceman Jay. Jamie explains what it
takes to become a badged member of the SAS. He
describes his deployments and how difficult it is to deal

(37:06):
with normal life when you have a Special Forces mindset.
Jamie Pannell airs with me next year on the Sunday Session.

Speaker 12 (37:15):
But yes, yes, let's scar this heart scared. Let you

(37:59):
scared the kamso.

Speaker 14 (38:06):
Yes, yes, yes, yes, it's Sunday. You know what that means.

Speaker 1 (38:46):
It's the Sunday Session with Francesca Rudkin and Wikles for
the best selection of great reeds used talk sippy.

Speaker 2 (39:00):
Good have you with us on Franchesca Vraudkin with you
until midday to day here on the Sunday Session's right.
The New Zealand SAS is a highly secretive unit, which
what goes on in the SAS stays in the SAS.
So much so that when my next guest was awarded
New Zealand's second highest military honor, the Gallantry Star, he
was only identified as Serviceman J. But now he's ready

(39:23):
to tell his story. Ex Commander Jamie Panell served as
a soldier and a leader in the New Zealand SAS
for eighteen years he was deployed to Afghanistan numerous times.
His Gallantry Star was awarded for his role in Bravery
and the Taliban's deadly siege on Carbell's International or Intercontinental Hotel.
Jamie has shared his untold story in a new book.

(39:43):
The book is called Serviceman Jay and Jamie Panell is
in the studio with me. Now, good morning, how are you.
I'm great, good, thank you, thank you very much. So
let's talk about that little elephant in the room. First start,
as a member of the SAS, you can't talk about
what you do. So how have you been able to
write this book?

Speaker 19 (40:03):
It's taken a long period of time. I started getting
told by my friends, basically, people both inside and outside
the regiment, you know, hey, we think you got a
story to tell. I think you should write a book.
And I mean I laughed it off, you know, back
in the day. But yeah, after a while it was
quite resounding. But what really pushed me across the line

(40:23):
was when a good friend of mine who operated with
the in the squadron, Steve Askin, he was killed in
the Porthill fires, and that's in my book as well.
Fighting Porthill Fires in twenty fifteen. Unfortunately, the monsoon bucket
wrapped around the tail raider and he went in. But
after his death, Paul Leskin, his father, reached out to
me and said, hey, Jamie, you know, can you write

(40:46):
something about Steve's time in the regiment as a soldier
because you're you know, you're insane squadron and you went
across a whole lot of different operations together. And I said, yeah,
no worries. And from that point, yeah, it was sort
of you know, started writing that and then I thought, well,
come this fire, I will just keep on going. So
here we are.

Speaker 2 (41:05):
What kind of person you have to be to make
it into the essayes.

Speaker 19 (41:10):
You've got to have a lot of grit. I mean,
selection is the most hardest from my perspective, physical, mental, emotional,
and spiritual journey you've ever taken in your life. It's
very brutal, and that's you know, by design, operations are
quite difficult, and so we have to replicate that in
our selection process. I guess what trumps what you need

(41:33):
to get in and stay in is this here? And
for your listeners who aren't looking at us, I'm pointing
at my head, my brain, and it's and it's having
control over that because at the end of the day,
you know, regardless of how big you are, big or
mustfully or small you are, you know you you need
to get control over your mind and that'll take you
through to the end. Your mind can be your greatest

(41:55):
champion and it can also be your greatest diversity. So
once you've got control of that, you know you're in.
You're in. It'll bode well, you know, for your journey
in the regiment.

Speaker 2 (42:03):
Why did you want to be an essays Officer.

Speaker 19 (42:07):
Well, you know, early on, very early on, when I
was a young fellow, I was always playing war as
kids do. When I put my application in, right at
the age of seventeen and a half is when you
can put your application in to join the army. I
actually put on my application form, which I had to
look at twenty years later, that I wanted to join

(42:28):
the seas And I'm not too sure why I actually
put that down at the particular point in time. I
think I might have known about the regiment being out there.
We lived out in west Auckland. You know they're out
at Hobsonbole. I know there's a special unit, but I
kind of yeah, it just I don't know. I guess
it was in me, you know that that's what I
wanted to do, and I pursued it pretty quickly. So,
I mean I did my basic training in nineteen ninety four,

(42:51):
in nineteen ninety five I did my core training into
the infantry, and then in nineteen ninety six I did
my first selection course and yeah, I mean that's a
year after really joining the army. And then I did
my next one in nineteen ninety seven, so and then
I got through. So yeah, yeah, I guess you know,
it being a special unit operations attract me as well.
But you know, going that far back here, it was

(43:13):
very difficult to sort of pinpoint it.

Speaker 2 (43:15):
That selection process you mentioned it is so brutal. Is
there a particular point that often breaks people? Is there?

Speaker 19 (43:21):
The Jerry Cans? Yeah? So the Jerry Cans is a
barrier test. I mean that's a twenty hour barrier test.
You're carrying all your kits, so you're carrying about you know,
thirty cag is a kit on your back, So you've
got your pack and your webbing in your offe which
ways about thirty kg's and then you've got to carry
Jerry cans and you know you've got filling water filled
with water. Yeah, and each you know, jerry cans are

(43:43):
twenty leaders, so that equals twenty kg's and so you've
got you know, six jerry cans between five people. That
means that the person at the front carries two jerry
cans for a period of time and then you switch around.
So yeah, ten hours, you know, you walk out to
a point and you walk back, and that there is Yeah,
once you get past the barrier test, we get very

(44:05):
low numbers leaving at that point. And why would you
you know, once you've gone through that. So, yeah, that
we've past that point in time, you're kind of looking
at the person that's going to get.

Speaker 3 (44:15):
To the end.

Speaker 19 (44:16):
But you know, selection course is really just a foot
in the door. It's you know what I mean, we're
just checking you.

Speaker 2 (44:22):
You did a tour in East team, Well, then you
went to Afghanistan in two thousand and one. I'm a
bit surprised at how much you had to rely on
line read to get the resources and the things that
you need. Is our military really bad under resources?

Speaker 19 (44:35):
Not? Now, you know, I mean we get everything we
need and when we're you know, highly effective and we
still were back then as well, highly capable. But I
guess it was just that point in time in history
that you know, the military haven't done much since Vietnam,
I guess. I mean, we did it. You know, we
supported UN operations around the world. It's a little bit different.
We had the Golf War there, which we supported as well,

(44:56):
But essentially, yeah, I don't think I think we forgot
what the regiment was all about, you know, I mean,
and probably you know, the defense force and what we
could actually do. So yeah, we had to yeah, you
know get you know, our hum v's or our dumbees
through you know, trays of line red and a couple
of bottles of whiskey. So the Americans were happy to

(45:17):
oblige with that. But you know, once we got those
those dumbees and we had to create them into fighting vehicles,
and so we had to go out to the dump
and you know, cut up old bed frames and bits
and pieces to make our whip amounts, and you know
a bit of plywood to make boxes for our food.
But you know, the old Kiwi Ingenuity number eight wire
approach put us in real good stead.

Speaker 2 (45:38):
You were doing patrols looking for Taliban and weapons. Was
it easy to know who was Taliban?

Speaker 19 (45:44):
Early on it was the world where so you know,
there's a lot of people, there's a lot of people
driving around the countryside with weapons. A lot of raw
opium was being transported about as well, So you don't
just you know, see weapons and engage. You know, there
has to be a threat. And so when you see
guys with weapons, they could be anyone. But you know

(46:05):
the teleibar will you know if they start shooting at you, well,
then yeah, you know who you're dealing with the locals.
The locals aren't going to have a crack. You're not
gonna you're not looking at a convoy of eight vehicles
with heavy weapons and you're just going to get to
have a crack at it for no reason. So a
lot of people didn't even know where we were there.
So we got into some of those deeper areas and

(46:27):
they'd be they'd say, well, who are you? It was
very strange.

Speaker 2 (46:31):
Yeah, what was the landscape like? What were the people like?

Speaker 19 (46:34):
Amazing? People are amazing accommodating, some not all. It's a
tribal you know, it's quite tribal there. The Hazarans were
very pro the coalition once they knew what we're there for,
so they are very peaceful. We'd you know, have sit
down meals with them and meetings about things that we're
looking at or after, but in general, the Pashtun areas

(46:57):
were quite a high threat. Afghanistan is an amazing landscape, mountains, beautiful,
bright blue lakes. Yeah, the people amazing. It's just I
hope that well, my hope for Afghanistan is that they
actually get their act together and you know, people can
go over there and experience that it's made. It'll be

(47:17):
just the best adventure playground you could ever you could
ever find.

Speaker 2 (47:21):
You were awarded the New Zealand Gallantry Star, the second
highest military award. Can you tell me a little bit
about about why you got it and was that the
most difficult circumstance you found yourself in?

Speaker 19 (47:35):
Yep, that definitely that operation was the peak experience. And
then obviously it's in the book. I mean, I'm not
too sure how I can break that down into a into.

Speaker 2 (47:46):
A short really can we know?

Speaker 19 (47:48):
It's just it was just it was a very Yeah,
it was a very significant event. I mean, just I
guess very briefly, nine terrorists took over the Intercontinental Hotel
and cabul late at night, killed a number of guests,
took positions up around the hotel, particularly on the roof,
and basically waited for our arrival. Took us ten hours.

(48:08):
We went through the hotel. We had a number of
significant engagements, major gunbattle in a stairwell on the rooftop,
and some pieces. Yeah, but it was ten hours that
sort of went in a heartbeat. We had a couple
of guys that got wounded from it through significant events.
One of the one of my teammates, got the direct

(48:29):
brunt of a suicide vest being detonated off one of
the attackers. Another one got shot through the side of
the head. So it was a big night, you know
what I mean. And a lot went on at the
end of the day. You know, it's not like I'm saying, Hey,
I think I need a gallantry stuff for this. You know,
we just do the job and you know, the awards
get handed out. But at the end of the day. Yeah,

(48:52):
like I said before many times, is that you know
I went across with the eighteen. You know, I had
a great bunch of guys, both badged and non badged,
were traveling with the enablers, and you know, people like
that make you look good as a leader, you know
what I mean, And I hold that hold that award
for them, for the guys that didn't get recognized.

Speaker 2 (49:10):
When you talk about a big night, it's not the
kind of big night that most of us have. And
it makes you think what it is like to have
that lived experience and then just come back to New
Zealand to normal life and to fit.

Speaker 19 (49:21):
Back in very difficult. That particular tour was the fourth
tour done to Afghanistan. The tours my early tours, the
first two tours, which were basically long range RECONCISCE reconnaissance
patrols in Afghanistan, you know, fact finding. The third and
the fourth were in Kabul and that was all close
quarter to combat, so you're going from long range engagements

(49:43):
to short range and it was pretty intense. And those
spectacular tests were pretty intense because it was up close
and personal. So at the end of that one, I
remember coming back home and we were coming back home
pretty quick, in about a week. And so you know,
when you're on call and high tempo and those and
having been through those lived experiences, you know, I'm sitting
outside Papakura camp and you know, I'm going from a

(50:06):
significantly high through environment, carrying weapons with people watching my
back to stand outside the front gate of camp, no weapons,
no one there, and you know, my brain's three quarters
if not more back in Afghanistan, you know what I mean.
And it's like a dream. Seriously, it's like a dream.
And it's like a dream for weeks. You know, that's

(50:26):
what happened to me. So you get home, you know,
you go to sleep in your beard, you wake up thinking,
and wake up in Afghanistan. You're not You're in New Zealand.
So trying to integrate back into society is a very
difficult process, which is why, you know, the minds. You've
got to get control of your mind and what's going on.
But at that particular point in time, we didn't really
know how to really assimilate back in. We kind of

(50:50):
had the tools, but they went deep enough. I mean,
I'm not too sure how guys with families were coping.
That would have been pretty difficult as well. Now they've
got a young fellow here and what that would look like,
because it definitely takes a huge amount of time and
you have to know what's going on on to be
able to you know, to react.

Speaker 2 (51:11):
You know, do we look after people well enough?

Speaker 19 (51:13):
I think we do. Yeah, I think we do.

Speaker 3 (51:14):
Now.

Speaker 19 (51:14):
I mean we've learned to our lesson. I mean, you know,
it's it's one of those things that all the supports here,
all the supporters there, you can take it if you want,
but you've got to meet that. You've got to meet
the army halfway or the defense halfway. And a lot
of the boys won't because the boys, you know, I'm
not going to talk to a psychologist about my problems,
you know, Man to man, It's just one of those
things that we have to get over ourselves. And you know,
it's lucky that we do have guys around that we

(51:36):
can talk to that have been through the same experience,
so we can sort of, you know, decompress.

Speaker 2 (51:39):
Yeah, hey, Jamie. After leaving the Defense Force, you started
working with high performance athletes. You work with the Warriors
for a little while there. Now you're at Dilworth School
developing their learning an outdoors program. Is it is it
really fulfilling? Is it great to be working with young people.

Speaker 19 (51:52):
One hundred percent and do with a great school. The
philosophy is a great you know, which is what Drew mean.
The boys are amazing. You know, we're well resourced, still
learning it out the Ball's program. You won't see anything
like this in Australasia. Can bet money on that. But
it's just really good. Are good. It's been like a
reverse mentoring role. It's the boys are helping me evolve

(52:17):
as they should, you know what I mean, but even
more so because of my experience as well. The approach
that I have to take with ten year old boys
and then you know seventeen year old young men, you know,
has to be completely different. So there's a lot of
calm and patience and it's really enjoyable, you know, going
out there and just you know, getting in and outdoors
with these boys, watching them grow over time, you know,
because it's longitude and norn scaffolded approach that we've got

(52:39):
with this program. And yeah, it's just been amazing. It's liberating,
gets me up every morning, a lot of energy, you know,
it's great where Yeah, we're doing really well.

Speaker 2 (52:48):
You haven't brought the jerry cans out yet.

Speaker 19 (52:50):
No, and I never will.

Speaker 20 (52:54):
Well.

Speaker 19 (52:54):
Eat lots of pizza and have ice cream though, and
that's a great thing.

Speaker 2 (52:57):
J Fanel, thank you so much for coming in. It's
been a delight to meet you, and thank you so
much for the book. It's been very enlightening.

Speaker 19 (53:03):
Appreciate the time.

Speaker 2 (53:04):
Serviceman Jay is in stores now. It is twenty one
past ten.

Speaker 3 (53:09):
Even simple.

Speaker 1 (53:10):
It's Sunday, The Sunday Session with Francesca Rudkin and Wig
Calls for the best selection of graver Reads, News Talks Envy.

Speaker 2 (53:19):
When you're looking for a good book to read, wick
Cales knows that the range of choice can be overwhelming.
It's important that you find the one that's right for
you or for the person to whom you might be
gifting it. And that's where the power of recommendation comes in.
That's why Wit Calls offers the Top one hundred, the
Kids Top fifty and Jones Picks. The Top one hundred

(53:39):
and Kids Top fifty have been voted for by the
readers of New Zealand. So if thousands of people have
loved them enough to vote for them, Chancellor, you'll love
them too. Jones Picks is a selection of books by
the Wick Calls head book buyer. Their titles she has
read and loved and they come with Jones's highest recommendation
with the top one hundred Kids, Top fifty Jones, picks

(54:00):
and Games, puzzles, toys, gorgeous, stationary and more. There really
is something for everyone at Wick Calls.

Speaker 3 (54:06):
There's no better way to start your Sunday.

Speaker 1 (54:08):
It's a Sunday session with Francesca Rutkin and Whitggles for
the best selection of great breaths used talks.

Speaker 2 (54:15):
Be Joining me now to talk entertainment is Chris Schotz.
Good morning, Good morning. We were just talking about the
All Blacks. Not a great night for them last night.

Speaker 21 (54:25):
Maybe we shouldn't be talking about it.

Speaker 2 (54:26):
Ah, And that sort of led us on to Edon Park,
And of course Eaton Park is not just the home
of rugby and various other things. It's also more and
more becoming the home of some pretty big, amazing gigs.
And they'd like to do a few more.

Speaker 12 (54:41):
They would.

Speaker 21 (54:42):
Yeah, they're only allowed six a year at the moment,
and that's really hindering the number of artists who are
touring here. We all know we missed out on Taylor
Swift last year, but we also missed out on tours
by Paul McCartney, Olivia Rodrigo, and Billie Eilish.

Speaker 22 (54:55):
So there's a.

Speaker 21 (54:55):
Big debate going on at the moment about the future
of stadiums in Auckland. There's a decision to be made
whether we build a brand new stadium down behind spark
Areno that can host fifty thousand people, can bring those
big artists here, or do we rejig eden Park put
a roof over it redo some of the stands residents
this week though, they got a letter in the mail

(55:17):
asking them to support doubling the number of concerts they're
allowed to have six at the moment. Famously, six sixty
broke that mold back in twenty twenty. I believe they
played the first show at eden Park and since then
they've been allowed to hold six. Some of the residents
aren't happy about that. That's why there's a bit of
conflict there. But now people can have their say. And

(55:37):
this is important not just for Auckland but the whole country.
Because I don't want to travel to Australia they have
to go and see artists all the time. I'd like
them to come here and when we've got a stadium
that can just host these shows and artists to go, Oh,
we go to New Zealand. We do edon Park. That's
the thing that's important, So they do need to host
more shows, just purely for myself.

Speaker 2 (55:56):
Yeah, it's interesting because a lot of people who live
in the area who do get to have a say,
are really behind it. They love it, they say bring
it on. It can often be a slightly small it's
not every everybody who lives there who's affected by it.
Share We just say, hey, our Bookworm, the Kiwi film,
which I really loved because I grew up on these
kind of live action family adventure films and I've really

(56:19):
enjoyed this.

Speaker 21 (56:20):
Doing well, doing really well. Yeah, the reviews are outstanding.
I checked Rotten Tomatoes just before I came on in
ninety four percent. Reviewers a kind of comparing this to
Hunt for the World of People, one of our biggest
box office success stories. I haven't seen this yet, but
you know what, you know this, it's really hard to
find a movie that you can take the whole family to.
I've got a fourteen year old and a ten year old.

(56:41):
But this is from Aunt Timpson, who has a career
in pushing boundaries. He's behind the forty eight Hour Film
Festival we hosted the incredibly strange section of the International
Film Festival that's on now. For like thirty years, he's
made some pretty dark and twisted films. Go and look
up The Greasy Strangler if you want to see an
example of what he's done. But this is completely out

(57:02):
of left field. He's made a family friendly movie's gorgeous,
Elijah Woods in it, and they're on the hunt of
the cannobary panther. So I, yeah, I need to go
and see this. But based on the reviews, yeah, I'm
definitely going.

Speaker 15 (57:14):
It's good.

Speaker 2 (57:14):
Good to hear. We actually had a Larjah Wood on
the show last week and Telly talk about the nicest
guy ever. I thought we were best mates by the
end of that. Yeah, I was like I was talking
to you soon. I was like, no, we won't FRANCHISKI.
You don't know him, you've only just met him, but
just so incredibly down to earth and opened and grounded and.

Speaker 21 (57:31):
Did you want to go on a hike on the
cannobary planes with them?

Speaker 2 (57:34):
We did talk about his camping ability and it does
sound like he's he's he's a follower, not a leader,
So maybe not industry. The HBO TV show is back.

Speaker 21 (57:46):
I want to get this on everyone's radar.

Speaker 2 (57:48):
A few I have watched this, This is This is
the the banking Yes and one on the Right Thing,
the British banking drama.

Speaker 21 (57:56):
Financial and it's made by two former money bros who
catched in their their careers and when I made TV.
This is their first TV show. The first seasons were
kind of under the radar. It is very much a
cult show. But if you are missing Succession or if
you were disappointed by the Bears third season this year,
which many were, Industry's third season is getting absolute rave reviews.

(58:21):
I've seen the first few episodes and it's kind of
like watching uncut gems at Adam Sandler movie, where you're
just on the edge of your seat the whole time.
It is intense viewing because it's set on the stock
market trading floor of a foreign exchange company in the UK.
One of the stockbrokers has a baseball bat on his desk.
It's that kind of show. It's just incredibly tense.

Speaker 2 (58:42):
And no one behaves the way you want them to.
You know, how you like a character, you want them
to do the right thing and behave and do the
right None of them do They have their own moral compasses,
don't they. They have their own It's like succession.

Speaker 21 (58:55):
There are awful people, but you're still kind of behind them.

Speaker 2 (58:59):
It's a simpler way of putting it. So where do
we watch that?

Speaker 21 (59:02):
Here in New Zenand that's on Neon from Sary Night.
Third season show the year?

Speaker 2 (59:07):
Why didn't you enjoyed The Bear? Season three?

Speaker 20 (59:09):
So much?

Speaker 21 (59:10):
Nothing happened the season? It was just very slow. It
wasn't the show that it used to be. And there
is a reason for that. They split it into two seasons.
It was only supposed to be a three season show,
and it became a hit, and so Christopher Story had
to make four seasons of it. And you can sort
of tell there's not a lot happening in at thirty episode.
It's gonna happen in the fourth season for sure.

Speaker 2 (59:30):
Okay, it's interesting you say that because I got stalled
at about episode three, and it was I just wasn't
quite in the mood for it yet. Season two there
were episodes in there like cousin Ritchie's episode, which is
some of my favorite It's probably one of my favorite
episodes of television ever, you know what I mean? Yeah,
so do I need to keep going.

Speaker 21 (59:48):
Okay, that sort of happens at the end of the season.
But industry, if you were disappointed.

Speaker 2 (59:53):
Okay, I'm I'm in industry. Thank you so much, Chris.
Really good to catch up with you.

Speaker 22 (59:57):
Right.

Speaker 2 (59:58):
Here's a question for you. How often do you clean
your microwave? I give ours a clean out quite often,
because it often looks like something's exploded in there. But
Michelle has an interesting science study for us today that
just might have us all giving our microwave a little
wipe out this afternoon. That's next. It is twenty eight
to eleven News Talks ATB.

Speaker 1 (01:00:22):
It's the Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin on News Talks
at B.

Speaker 2 (01:00:28):
And doctor Michel Dickinson. Nana Girl is with us with
her science study of the week. Good morning, Good morning
this did I did pause when I read, so let
me get study.

Speaker 23 (01:00:41):
You obviously clean your kitchen characters multiple times a day. Yes,
you wipe them down.

Speaker 20 (01:00:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 23 (01:00:45):
Do you clean the inside of your microwave with as
much gusta?

Speaker 2 (01:00:48):
Not as often, but actually more than I probably would
normally because my kid's always blowing things up in there.

Speaker 23 (01:00:54):
Yeah, not covering them.

Speaker 2 (01:00:55):
Yeah, there is butter going it. My daughter's a baker.
He's always softened butter going everywhere and things like that.
So I do do it a little bit more than
I thought I would, but probably not.

Speaker 23 (01:01:06):
So this Sunday I thought we might all go clean
our microwaves Sunday chores. And I love this little study
because it was really interesting. So, you know, many people
I've met, including many students because I've worked at universities,
I've met students, have gone, I don't need to clean
my microwave because it kills everything anyway, so it'll be fine.

(01:01:27):
Sadly that is not true. So the journal Frontiers in Microbiology,
it's a lovely open source paper too, if you want
to spend your Sunday afternoon reading all about bugs. Looked
at what actually is in our microwaves and whether or
not microwaves nuke them and they all die, or whether
or not they're happily living in there around your food.

(01:01:48):
And so they took thirty different microwaves and they swabbed them. Now,
the microwaves were in different places. Some of them were
in your home, some of them were in shared offices,
which you know you never trust a shared office microve
and some of them were in science labs and then
they cultured samples secrets of DNA and identify the microorganisms
and they found horrifically one hundred and one microbial strains

(01:02:11):
from seven hundred and forty seven different genre of bacteria.
And some of those are not good for you. So
you were like, oh, how harmful can they be? Because
why do we put things on our microwave or we
put them in to heat them up, and we know
if they're heating them up, we know that they inactivate
bad bacteria like ecoli, salmonella, listeria. That's good because that's

(01:02:32):
why we're cooking our food to get rid of those bugs.
But they also found that there are some other bugs
in there that are quite happy being zepped and being
heated up and living on and some of those do
actually called of course, food borne illnesses. So not great
news first. And the reason that they can do that
is some of these bacteria are amazing at living in

(01:02:55):
what they call extreme environments. They found them, you know,
in Antarctica, they found them on those you know, the
heat vents down in the ocean, like they're really hot places.
And because they have a special type of heat shock that
can help to protect them. And they also have antioxy
and enzymes, which means that even if they get zapped,
it doesn't actually kill them. So these bacteria are amazing.
They have efficient DNA repair mechanisms and you go, oh,

(01:03:19):
but there are also many of them antibaretic resistant, right,
so they're not great. They're living in your microwave. You
probably didn't think that they were there. So basically the
conclusion of this is clean your microwave more often.

Speaker 2 (01:03:35):
People aren't doing it.

Speaker 23 (01:03:36):
They were like, people just aren't doing it enough because
the assumption is that it's killing the bugs. It is
not killing all of the bugs. There are horrific bugs
in there. But the great thing about this study is
they said, well, hold on, we've found all of these specteria.

Speaker 2 (01:03:47):
Can we learn anything from this?

Speaker 8 (01:03:48):
What should we do?

Speaker 23 (01:03:49):
And they said a lot of these bacteria might be
really useful if we ever had a toxic waste outbreak,
So contamination, get them in there. Get them in there
to eat up all the contaminated waste because they're great
extreme conditions. So yes, silver lining is like, can use it.
Unsilver ligning is getta cloth, get some detergent get some

(01:04:10):
spray and wipe and go clean inside your microwave, because
if you're not doing it as often as you do
your cantertaps, you're probably not doing it as often.

Speaker 22 (01:04:16):
As you should.

Speaker 2 (01:04:18):
Can we access that study?

Speaker 23 (01:04:20):
Yeah, Frontiers in Microbiology. It was out this week. It's
open source.

Speaker 12 (01:04:23):
Go have a read.

Speaker 2 (01:04:23):
Thank you so much, Michelle. If a bit like me,
you've been looking at your great fruit tree. You can
eat great fruit because of communications, I can't eat it,
so you turn it into mama lay. But what else
can you do with that grapefruit that is setting out there?
Mike Van Alison has an excellent suggestion for us. Next,
it is twenty one to eleven News Talks at b.

Speaker 3 (01:04:42):
There's no better way to start your Sunday.

Speaker 1 (01:04:45):
It's the Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin and Woggles for
the best selection of grape breaths use talks it be.

Speaker 2 (01:04:52):
Thank you very much for your texts this morning. You
can text any time throughout the show. Ninety two ninety
two morning, francisca great interview with Jamie I remember that
Attech on the Intercontinental Hotel, the New Zealand Minister of
Defense at the time when interview denied any New Zealand
military involvement, unfortunately for him. About the same time, there
was a photo of two New Zealand SAS members being
published on the front page of the London Times coming

(01:05:13):
out of the hotel in Carble. The photo is in
Jamie's book, Yes it is, and Jamie does talk quite
a bit actually in the book about that stress and
that pressure of not being captured by journalists and that
they were often quite difficult situations like that. Thank you
very much for your text. Joining me now is our
resident chief Mike vander Alison.

Speaker 3 (01:05:31):
Good morning, Good morning.

Speaker 2 (01:05:33):
I'm very excited that you're dealing with grape fruit today
because I've got a tree which, bless bless it. It
really shouldn't be alive in producing fruit, but it just
keeps ongoing and can eat straight grapefruit. But do enjoy
doing something with it, and I just you know, it's
nice to have another option apart from marmalade and grapefruit.

Speaker 18 (01:05:53):
Could is just that I'm not actually a fan of
lemon curt I find that it's fighting too much tart
and too sweet, so you're kind of like it's that
total complete yang.

Speaker 3 (01:06:07):
Sweet, sour, sweets sour wrong going.

Speaker 18 (01:06:10):
I just can't do it. You know, you're either having
honey or you're having savory, and it's like that sweets sour.

Speaker 3 (01:06:16):
I can't do it, can't do it, can't do it.

Speaker 13 (01:06:18):
I'm trying to do it.

Speaker 3 (01:06:18):
I can't do it anyway.

Speaker 2 (01:06:21):
So is this is this? Is this an answer to that?

Speaker 20 (01:06:23):
That?

Speaker 2 (01:06:24):
Yeah, first world problem?

Speaker 9 (01:06:28):
So great.

Speaker 18 (01:06:29):
Grapefruit curd is somewhat different than lemon curd. It's made
in the same way, but what the grapefruit does is
it adds in a certain amount of bitterness.

Speaker 3 (01:06:39):
So unlike the lemon.

Speaker 13 (01:06:41):
Curd, you you you.

Speaker 18 (01:06:44):
Don't get that bitterness in grape or you don't get
that bitterness and lemon curd. So grapefruit curd gives you
the three components sweet.

Speaker 3 (01:06:50):
Sour, but also the bitter. And that's the side of
the grapefruit that I absolutely love.

Speaker 13 (01:06:56):
So grapefruit can.

Speaker 11 (01:06:58):
Be a little bit sweeter.

Speaker 18 (01:06:59):
So I've pulled back on the sugar on the grapefruit curd.
And it's using six grapefruits. So depending on the size
of grapefruit, so you know, grapefruit and masses, so kind
of go for six large grapefruit.

Speaker 3 (01:07:14):
Use a microplane.

Speaker 18 (01:07:15):
So microplanes you can just buy them from any sort
of kitchen shop, and they what they do. Instead of
just grating coarsely, they finally just cut the outer edge
of that grapefruit off. It will take a while. Grapefruit
is massive, so just spend a bit of time microplaning
the outside of the zest of the grapefruit and then
pop that into like a stain steel bowl and then

(01:07:36):
juice all the grapefruit into that. So you've got the
zest and you've also got the juice, and what that
gives you is that bitter tone that we're looking for.

Speaker 3 (01:07:45):
So place them into a bolt.

Speaker 18 (01:07:46):
Along with that, you've got four large eggs. Place your
stain steel bowl over a pot of gently boiling water,
so what we call a bamory, and then just start
to whisk. So you're gently whisking that whilst it's sitting
over that simmering water, and what you're looking for. If
you've got a temperature probe, all the better because it
just makes it absolute exact. You're looking for that mixture

(01:08:07):
or the curd mixture to reach seventy six degrees when
it reaches seventy six, or if you haven't got a probe.
You want to just see it to start to thicken
like a runny custard. Once it gets that, pull it
off the heat and then whisk in one hundred and
twenty grams of unsalted cubed butter. Once the butter goes in,
then you're all done. So I'd pull that into like

(01:08:30):
sterilized jars, boil your caps on the jars, put your
caps on, and that will stay good in the cupboard
for I would say, yeah, but it will probably good
for two or three years.

Speaker 2 (01:08:40):
And great on your vogels or scones. Oh delicious, sounds great.
Thank you so much, Mike. You can greate that recipe.
You can get that recipe from good from scratch dot
co dot inz, or of course you can head to
our website newstalk ZIB dot co dot z forard slash
Sunday and you'll be able to find all our interviews
and information from today's show there. It is a fourteen

(01:09:04):
to eleven news talks.

Speaker 3 (01:09:05):
He'd be it's still the weekend.

Speaker 1 (01:09:08):
It's a Sunday session with Francesca Rudgin and Wiggles.

Speaker 3 (01:09:11):
For the best selection of great breeds, use.

Speaker 2 (01:09:14):
Talk zb so Bob is asking, is cleaning the microwave
once every tensh years? Okay, I cleaned it every time
I accidentally boil the coffee over. Probably not, Bob. I
think that's exactly what Michelle was talking about there. But yes,
I'm sure you're not on your own there. Somebody else
is just quickly asking what the TV show that guy

(01:09:34):
said was really good to watch in similar to Succession,
It's called Industry. It's out on Neon, so you can
probably also get it on Sky if you've got the
right channel. It's the third season's been released, so that's good.
You've got two seasons to binge before you even get
to the third one, which is always good. Someone is
asking about the sugar and the grapefruit curd. I'm trying

(01:09:55):
to be very attentive to answering your questions this morning.
Yes there was sugar, three hundred and fifty grams of
Caster sugar. But go to news talks'b dot co dot
nz Ford slash Sunday throughout the day of that recipe.
Joining me now to talk wellness, Aaron Oharanatreth joins me,
Good morning, Good morning, you talking about an interesting one
today about the relationship between chronic pain and anxiety and depression.

Speaker 24 (01:10:19):
Yeah, these go quite commonly hand in hand, and it's
interesting when you look at the research.

Speaker 2 (01:10:24):
Actually about fifty.

Speaker 24 (01:10:26):
To sixty percent of patients that are seeking help for
depression have reported at least one type of pain symptom,
so it is a really common one that goes together.
And it can be sometimes for some people the chronic
pain that then leads to anxiety and depression or even
just depression, or it can be the depression that is
actually creating physical painfulness of just life in general, that

(01:10:49):
actually makes the body physically pain as well.

Speaker 2 (01:10:52):
That's interesting because I totally understand. I would imagine if
you've got chronic pain and just getting through life on
a day to day basis was difficult. I can totally
understand how that would lead to anxiety and depression, and it.

Speaker 24 (01:11:04):
Can mean day to day or it can even be
for some people it's actually a physic medical condition like
fibromyalga or irritable bowel syndrome, or lower back pain, chronic
lower back pain, severe headaches, migrones those nerve pain, but
also sports injuries as well, which is a really hard
one and watching the Olympics obviously, you know, injuries happen

(01:11:25):
all the time, and those athletes when they get a
major injury that might come with pain as well, it
can commonly lead them down that pathway of depression because
they can't do what they love to do, and that
can be a really really hard one to recover from,
not just the injury itself, but actually the mental side
of recovery as well.

Speaker 2 (01:11:43):
Yeah, so how does the brain work and all this?

Speaker 24 (01:11:47):
Yeah, so the brain pathways, it's interesting that the pathway
for pain in the pathway for depression is actually quite
similar and the sense the somato century cortex interacts with
the menadilla and the hypothalamus gland, and that also links
into emotions, so that pain actually creates that emotional response.

(01:12:10):
But also when we do have that low mood, we've
got that emotional response as well, So it can link
to the brain pathways as well as neurotransmitters. So serotonin,
which I always think of serotonin as our sort of
happy hormone, is one that can also be in the
pain pathways, but also not every knypron is another one
that's involved in signaling pathways for anxiety terpression, but also

(01:12:34):
in pain as well, so since they share similar pathways,
they can actually lead to you know, there's that incidence
together because they're on the same pathways. And chronic pain,
like it's just a hard one to really manage day
to day, and some people live with pain every day
of their life and they're every day getting up going Okay,
I've got to get through this, and that's having support

(01:12:55):
around you is super important. And there's really good clinical
research around doing cognitive behavior therapy. So actually learning how
to manage the chronic pain can be a really helpful thing,
having the tools rather than feeling victimized by your pain,
but instead having some ways of managing through the pain,
because it won't just suddenly disappear when it comes to

(01:13:15):
chronic pain. Also, our relaxation techniques, so things like my
favorites like meditation, relaxation techniques, yoga, mindfulness, So learning how
to relax when there is a lot of pain, because
our natural tendency when we do experience pain in the
body is to be really tense. So learning how to
kind of relax and learn how to manage the pain,

(01:13:37):
as well as exercise is really interesting. Research more around
anxiety and depression rather than chronic pain itself, but actually
using exercise as a tool to help to regulate mooge
as well as alleviate the anxiety. So it depends on
what kind of pain you've got whether you can do
much exercises.

Speaker 2 (01:13:56):
So if somebody is suffering from chronic plaine at the
moment and maybe a bit of anxiety depression, what do
they do? I mean, if they go to their doctrine,
go look, how do I deal with this? Whohould they
talk to?

Speaker 24 (01:14:07):
Well, going to your doctor is a good place because
obviously seeking why is their pain in the first place,
and then you might want to go down more pathways,
whether it's seeing a psychologist or whether you're looking at
other medications. So sometimes medications are appropriate for managing the pain.
Even the like so of your antidepressant anti anxiety medication
can actually help to reduce pain in some instances, and

(01:14:28):
that's where you really need to seek proper medical advice
around that. Other things that I would do as a
naturopath is more looking at reducing inflammation. Nature opthy is
not very good at pain management. It's probably the weakest area.
There's nothing that works like pantol for instant pain. Relief,
and it's more around how we manage the inflammation and
reducing that inflammatory path phase in the body, and that

(01:14:50):
might be using things like good old favorite tumeric or
cucumin has been a really high dose. One of my
other favorites is Boswalia, which is also known as frankincense,
and they are really good anti inflammatories, so they're going
to reduce the inflammation, not particularly just reduce the pain.
Also maybe looking at CBD oil, which you'd have to

(01:15:12):
go and see a proper clinic around getting CBD oil.
Really good for pain management plans as well, but also
you're looking at calming herbs because if we're calmer, we're
actually going to be able to manage the pain as
well a lot better. So it might be using things
like herbs like lavender, lemon, balm, camera mile, getting to
start with teas, maybe move inter tinctures or some tablets,

(01:15:33):
but actually using those to really calm the nervous system.

Speaker 2 (01:15:36):
If you are going to use herbs that always.

Speaker 24 (01:15:38):
Seek some advice with the nature path so you can
make sure you've got no interactions with medications.

Speaker 2 (01:15:43):
Thank you so much. Erin It is a six to
eleven grab with cover it's.

Speaker 1 (01:15:48):
The Sunday session with Francesca Rudgin and Wigkeles for the
best selection of grape greens used.

Speaker 3 (01:15:54):
Talk zed Be.

Speaker 2 (01:15:55):
I've just learned something about Erin. She's a very messy eater.
I always get hungry when Mike Vandlsen comes on with
his recipes. So I peeled my mandarin and I was
all ready to eat it, and she's like, I can't
believe you're eating that. It's such a bizarre choice to eat.
You know, I'd be dripping it everywhere. They'd be juicy.
I've just managed to eat that very nice and neatly

(01:16:15):
hem amandarin, but apparently not Eron. She'd have juice flowing everywhere.
Fasting what you learn anyway. Up next, Sam Gibson, also
known as the Trapman, joins me. Sam has had an
incredible life of adventure in the New Zealand Bush, working
as a trapper in some of our most remote and
rugged areas. He's an experienced hunter and is now bringing
up his kids to be fully in tune with the

(01:16:36):
natural world. He's also been shot at quite a bit
in the bush. So Sam is going to share some
of his yarns with us. Shortly here on Newstalks.

Speaker 12 (01:16:52):
Conversation.

Speaker 1 (01:17:14):
Welcome to the Sunday Session with Francesca Rudkin and Wiggles
for the best selection of great reads used talks.

Speaker 2 (01:17:29):
This is a Sunday Session. I'm Francisca Rudkin, with you
until midday to day. Good to have you with us.
Coming up this hour on the panel, we discussed whether
the Olympic team has surpassed your expectations. I think they've
surpassed mime. Meghan Singleton has a tip for potentially cheaper
flights to the US, and Joan has a couple of
craiking books from New Zealand authors. Now this might be

(01:17:53):
something that you don't know about me, but I am
a keen trapper.

Speaker 13 (01:17:57):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (01:17:57):
I'm not afraid of a decomposing rattle possum. So when
I read about my next guest, I knew I needed
to get him on the show. Sam Gibson aka Sam
the trap Man, does it all, hunting, fishing, trapping and
adventuring a life in the bush, steering Sam out of
trouble as an unruly teenager. And Sam has written about
bush life in a new book. It's called Sam the

(01:18:18):
trap Man and Sam Gibson joins me, Now, how are
you doing, Sam living the dream?

Speaker 20 (01:18:23):
Francesca, how are you.

Speaker 2 (01:18:24):
Good to hear? I'm good? Thank you. Where did your
love of the bush come from?

Speaker 12 (01:18:30):
I was?

Speaker 20 (01:18:31):
You know, I've got some pretty amazing parents. My dad
took me tramping a lot as a kid, and my mother,
she's a nurse who specializes in herbal medicine. And my
grandparents were both bushman and a bushman as well, hunting,
fishing and all that sort of thing. So right from
a really young age, we spent a lot of time

(01:18:54):
in the bouchet.

Speaker 2 (01:18:55):
But as a teenager that time became more meaningful for you,
didn't it, because it kind of did two things. One,
it kept you out of trouble and helped you find
your place in the world.

Speaker 20 (01:19:07):
Absolutely. I was a very gangly teenager that wasn't particularly
good at school, wasn't very good at sports. I really
struggled to find a direction or a place that suited
me in life, and for a while there I tried
to fit into the party scene pretty heavily. And then

(01:19:29):
my parents made a deal with my headmaster, and I
was really lucky. I went to Steiner School, so they
were very open minded, and they started seeing me into
Dawita to work alongside my godfather as a trapper. And
I felt that, you know, being six before, I could
carry a lot of traps. And I really found found
I resonated with a lot of the bushmen that we

(01:19:51):
came into contact with him, and found my place in
the bush and haven't really looked back.

Speaker 2 (01:19:57):
That work as a trapper. You have worked on some
stunning but pretty tough places, haven't you. It's tough work.

Speaker 20 (01:20:05):
It's not for the faint hearted, that's for sure. There's
I've lived in some pretty cold and manky and horrible
conditions of black mold on the walls of hearts and
condensation leaving your sleeping bag wet when you return to
the hearth in the evening, and no fires in your hearts,
and snow and that sort of thing. Some of the

(01:20:26):
conditions in Fjordland were so bad that some of the
huts the mattresses were, we'd take our hunting knives and
would split them up the middle so that we could
tuck our sleeping bags inside the mattresses, just for an
extra layer of insulation. It was pretty cold for some
of us.

Speaker 2 (01:20:45):
Some of us will know the areas that you worked in,
because we've had much more pleasant experiences like walking the
Kepler Track. If you've done the Kepler Track, you talk
about working in RS burden places like that. So it
was what I enjoyed about It was even though I
didn't quite have those some experiences, I could still picture
those landscapes.

Speaker 20 (01:21:02):
They're beautiful one and they're really incredible landscapes.

Speaker 2 (01:21:06):
Do you think we can be predator free by twenty fifty?

Speaker 20 (01:21:10):
I think we could achieve anything as a nation if
we wanted to. It's just how much we choose to
resource it. I think if we really created university like
Bush Universities and really invested in our people and invested
in our tools, we could get there. But I'm not
I think we've got other financial priorities at the moment.

Speaker 2 (01:21:33):
How did you beat the kyas from disrupting the traps?

Speaker 20 (01:21:37):
Kia are so incredible, aren't they?

Speaker 9 (01:21:39):
You know?

Speaker 20 (01:21:40):
Kia? Essentially when we're in fjord them, we found that
Kia were able to bite through the mesh on the
ends of our trap boxes, and they were very interested
in eating their eggs, and then beat that we're baiting
our traps, and so they'd too a hole through that
mesh and get themselves into the traps trap boxes and
steal the eggs in the meat. And we were quite

(01:22:03):
we were quite consented, we don't want to be catching ka,
as you can imagine, so we trialed using thicker mession.
We found out that kia beats are actually really strong,
so they put through that too, and then we ended
up using a stainless steel end. But the kire then
found out that they could choose through the tannelized wood,

(01:22:25):
and so they tuned around the screw and the top
of the trap box and pulled the screw out and
got in through the top of the trap box, which
was which was a bit of a pain and so
and not good for the ka either tannelized which was
probably not the best diet for kiir, and so we
used a really big head screw and that got them fulled.

(01:22:45):
But the next thing they did was they stood on well,
they lay on their backs and they pushed the trap
box up into the air with their feet, so.

Speaker 25 (01:22:55):
The egg would roll down out of the trap box,
hit the end of the trap box crack, and the
kir with their classic would just turn up at the
end of the trap box and licked that broken egg
up and they were happy about that. So what we
needed to do was anchor that trap box into the
background using some metal steel reinforcing steel pegs, and that

(01:23:19):
really got them battled. So it's been a bit of
a journey to keep care out of our trap boxes.
But that's what I really enjoy doing, is making sure
our traps are great at killing the creatures we're trying
to kill very humanely, and also offering the least amount

(01:23:40):
of risk to those amazing time species that we're trying
to pretend.

Speaker 2 (01:23:44):
So much sort of labor goes into and man ours
can go into trapping and things. Is that the best
sort of predator control method? Do you think?

Speaker 7 (01:23:55):
You know?

Speaker 2 (01:23:56):
Using people or.

Speaker 20 (01:23:59):
The thing I really like about using people is that
you know, when people interact with their ecosystems, tend to
care about them. I think that there's a direct correlation
between the amount of time people spend in an ecosystem
and the quality of conservation outcome that we see. So
when people spend time in those ecosystems, they really care

(01:24:21):
about each creek, each river, each each you know, I
know our trappers we run a big thirty thousand hit
their project up here on the East Coast called the
Eastern Field Link, and we've got over one hundred active volunteers.
And our volunteers know each pair of field individually and
they understand they know, oh, this is their favorite rock

(01:24:41):
and this is where they tend to feed at this
time of the day. And so I think when you
have that level of connection with an ecosystem, you can't
help but have really good conservation outcomes. I think some
of the methodologies that are more cost effective, let's say,
sometimes we miss an opportunity for our people to have

(01:25:05):
that liv experience with the landscape, and when people don't
have that connection, they tend to careless and tend to
look after it less. Well, if that makes.

Speaker 2 (01:25:14):
Sense absolutely, Sam. You also worked as a track cutter
for a while and as a tramper. I would like
to say thank you to all the track cuts out
there who do incredible jobs of keeping our tracks and
good and good shape. How tough was that?

Speaker 20 (01:25:29):
Oh, firstly, I'd like to say thank you right back
at you. I mean, goodness me, if it wasn't for trampers,
I wouldn't have had that job. And wow, it's pretty incredible.
Pretty tough to be honest. You're in rain hale and
sunshine and cutting tracks with a scrubbub and it's dusty
and rocky. But I think the lifestyle that comes along

(01:25:51):
with that is pretty amazing. All the fishing and hunting
and being able to be in our most remote places
every week for a long time is a pretty incredible experience. Really,
it's really great we have done it.

Speaker 2 (01:26:07):
You're right about the many amazing characters that you've worked alongside.
What kind of person looks for a life in the bush.

Speaker 20 (01:26:15):
Oh, there's some odd bulls out there. Ah, there's some
real old bulls out there. But you know, they're all
likable rogues in a way, you know, and I think
we all are to some degree. There's I think there's
a lot of people that don't necessarily where town's probably
less comfortable because of the social intricacies. Yeah, I think

(01:26:36):
I think you get some really interesting people that really
care and enjoy our wild places. But you definitely get
some characters that have some good stories on them.

Speaker 26 (01:26:50):
And I'm sitting here trying not to like dob my
mates and about a yarn about them is the characters.
But yeah, you definitely get some pretty hard case heartcase
creatures out there. My uncle, for example, he's a great man.

Speaker 20 (01:27:02):
He's he's living in a tarp hole in camp treafing
possums at the moment, and you know, he's living off
not very much Tucker at all, and he's got some
good philosophies he's coming up with At the moment.

Speaker 2 (01:27:15):
You found your place in the bush, But there were
also moments where there wasn't enough to kind of keep
you going. You had a bout of depression in your
late twenties. What did you learn from that?

Speaker 20 (01:27:25):
Yeah, I've got a weird personality trait where my mental
health is quite heavily connected to how well I'm doing
at work, and it's very common possibly a and sood.
I ended up in a job where that particular conservation
project there were a lot of things that weren't going

(01:27:47):
particularly well, and they questioned my value system quite strongly.
And so that being the case, I started to really
fumble with my mental health and I didn't realize it
at the time. It started to really get me down,
and yeah, I went bush and I didn't realize it

(01:28:10):
had gotten as bad as it had gotten. And I
came to a realization one day as I was hunting
with my dog that I that might be the end
of the road for me, and that was a pretty
tough realization. It was only really my dog that saved
my life that day. So it's something that I think

(01:28:32):
many people in the real space and in the bush
particularly struggle with. And we don't have a culture talking
about these things. So that's why I wanted to include
it in the book a little bit is that, you know,
that's something that I still do with, like every once
or twice a year, I get a little bit down,
and it's something I've really got to manage. But I'm
really lucky now to have my children and and I'm

(01:28:56):
not going anywhere, but you know, because of them, because
they're just incredible, incredible kids. And I think I wanted
to speak a little bit in the book about mental
health and the risk of of struggling with mental health
when you're alone and isolated, and the bullsh of that
makes sense absolutely.

Speaker 2 (01:29:15):
What do you love about hunting? What's your philosophy around it?
You do speak in the book about not being greedy.

Speaker 20 (01:29:21):
So I just love the ability to provide really high quality,
nutrient rich food for my family, and so to me
hunting and freshing and harvesting vegetation out of the bushes,
I consider myself and making out chiropractitioner, you know, So

(01:29:44):
that ability to provide delicious food from the bush for
my family is a is something I take great pride
and being able to read the ecosystem and see what
the ecosystem can afford to give us at that time.
And deer and pigs are definitely that at the moment.
So I really enjoy my hunting. I really enjoy being

(01:30:07):
able to provide QUI fail far.

Speaker 24 (01:30:09):
No, waid.

Speaker 2 (01:30:10):
I was a little bit worried to somebody who who
you know, you work at the bush and things, and
you were hunting. How many times have you been shot at?

Speaker 20 (01:30:16):
Though? Yeah, that's that's been a real worry for I
think I'm potentially like either really unlucky or really lucky,
you know, like I have been. I've been shot at
four times, which on one hand is like very unlucky,
but the people pulling the trigger must have been a
terrible shot because I have not been hit four times

(01:30:36):
as well, which on the other hand makes me really lucky.
So yeah, I guess it comes with the territory and
it's It's very much something that I'm aware of now
that I've got kids and I take much less risks.
But also I think it's something we're getting much better
at as a hunting fraternity. There's a lot of education
around that space as well. So yeah, but it's definitely scary.

Speaker 12 (01:30:59):
Eight.

Speaker 20 (01:30:59):
It's one of the like more freaky things I've ever
had happened.

Speaker 2 (01:31:03):
For sure, because I do a bit of trial running
and sometimes end up in quite remote places. And I've
always said to my girlfriend, because she's worried about and
getting shot, I'm like, I don't know, we look at us,
we dress up, we don't look anything. I've always said
to her it's not a problem. But clearly in some
places I won't go quite so remote as you though,
so I should be safe. Hey, look, finally, what is
the most stunning part of New Zealand? Do you think?

Speaker 20 (01:31:25):
Oh that's a tough question. Goodness me. What's the most
stunning part of New Zealand?

Speaker 2 (01:31:30):
And who's your favorite child? Yeah?

Speaker 20 (01:31:33):
Yeah, yeah, that's a big one too. No, favorite part
of New Zealand. I've got a place in the while
worker that court on a Falk's hut that just feels good.
You know, the mist rolls through those valleys and the
steep cliffs and beautiful forests that I really enjoy. But
also sitting at the top of resolution Island and hearing

(01:31:54):
a dawn chorus is pretty phenomenal. Not being able to
see another human or man made structure for as far
as the I can see, that's seeing a rolling off
those southern oceans. That's that's a beautiful thing as well.

Speaker 2 (01:32:11):
Sam Gibson, thanks so much for your time this morning.

Speaker 20 (01:32:15):
Yeah, thanks for having me on. I appreciate it.

Speaker 2 (01:32:16):
Ye've been loving to talk to you.

Speaker 8 (01:32:18):
Sam.

Speaker 2 (01:32:18):
The trap Man is in stores this week. It is
twenty two past eleven.

Speaker 3 (01:32:23):
Grab a cover.

Speaker 1 (01:32:24):
It's the Sunday Session with Francesca Rudkin and Wickles for
the best selection of Hu's Talks'd be.

Speaker 2 (01:32:32):
Alrighty, Well, we've been talking Olympics this morning because it
was just an epic night last night.

Speaker 4 (01:32:38):
She's half a boat length a head of cheap bah.
She's got the race face on the red Sunnis. That's
Carrington Carrington coming down to the line. It is gonna
be gold for New Zealand's Lisa Carrington co.

Speaker 5 (01:32:54):
Pats through and it's down a golden glow for Lydia.

Speaker 6 (01:33:01):
Com weeks and years of training, Homer's curve for the.

Speaker 3 (01:33:04):
Gold midle.

Speaker 6 (01:33:07):
Kiwis can fly, and Heimuska scales his everest and his
high jump Olympic champion.

Speaker 2 (01:33:17):
Quite a night time for the Sunday Session panel. Now
and joining me is editor and journalist Joe McCarroll. Hi, Joe, Hi.

Speaker 15 (01:33:24):
Francesca tearing up just hearing this commentary again. Less you.

Speaker 2 (01:33:28):
Liam here is also with us, a partner at Freebahn
and Heir Lawyers. Hey, Liam, how are you?

Speaker 13 (01:33:34):
I'm very well, Thank you. How do you feel?

Speaker 2 (01:33:36):
I'm good thinking you know? You're so right, joh. I mean,
it's been a it's been beautiful to wake up in
the morning. I've been waking quite early and sort of
checking what's going on and whether I should get up
and go and watch a final or something. But it's
just it just puts us. It's a great way to
start the day.

Speaker 15 (01:33:50):
Three goals overnight, three goals and not I mean, I
don't want to sound too kind of Pollyanna, but just
all the kiwi's there, all the athletes there, hook just
waks are hard and persevered and you know, and then
their mums and dads are on the sideline and you
know they were taking them to preak Does every morning,
and you know, watching the uniforms and I just think
it is incredible and so we're celebrating and you know

(01:34:13):
what an amazing result. I am absolutely lost words. I
genuinely weep quite often when watching the Olympics because I
find it so inspiring.

Speaker 2 (01:34:24):
Have you brought onto the Olympics?

Speaker 3 (01:34:25):
Liam?

Speaker 24 (01:34:26):
Oh?

Speaker 11 (01:34:27):
Yeah, always?

Speaker 22 (01:34:28):
And you know I went down to the tienth mitch
albut last night with my and my thumb and left
that thoroughly to moralized and don't think the press. And
then yeah, you wake up and we've got three more
goals and you know that the most gold has.

Speaker 13 (01:34:43):
Ever had in the Olympics.

Speaker 22 (01:34:45):
And it's just we're the older is we're good ones
for talking about, you know, having a high number of
medal peck atter. After this game, you know we can
we can ditch that. We're just a high high gold
mid le country all together. You know, we don't need
to qualify it.

Speaker 2 (01:35:00):
It was fantastic, exactly, and I think Joe that we
were you know, everyone was very hesitant after so much
success at Tokyo to put a huge amount of expectations
on the media tally, on the medal tally. But I
do just think quietly they will be the New Zealand Olympic.
You know, team will be very happy with the way

(01:35:21):
things are gone.

Speaker 15 (01:35:22):
I mean I think the whole of New Sea what
should be happy. I mean, it's not just the medal tally.
I mean character is up there with the all time
great across multiple sports. Bring on the Simon Barles documentary,
you know, I mean, the youngest golf forever into the
LPGA Hall of Fame. You know, our athletes, they're not
just winning gold medals there top of the world. It's

(01:35:44):
just incredible to see that level of talent coming out
of New Zealand and see the hard work that went
into it. And I just I keep thinking how much
I want my Niss's nephews to be inspired by people
like this.

Speaker 2 (01:35:56):
They inspire me just to get up, Liam, I'm not.
I don't need to go to the Olympics. So I
just kind of keep you going, don't they throughout the.

Speaker 15 (01:36:03):
Might go for a walk today.

Speaker 13 (01:36:06):
Do you know how many gold middles?

Speaker 22 (01:36:07):
Agentina hand real one?

Speaker 13 (01:36:10):
So there we go.

Speaker 22 (01:36:11):
So we may lost the rugby, but there we go.
We've got nine times.

Speaker 13 (01:36:14):
As many gold with them.

Speaker 12 (01:36:15):
Good.

Speaker 2 (01:36:16):
Yeah, consoling yourself with that, leam.

Speaker 27 (01:36:18):
I love it.

Speaker 2 (01:36:19):
And also it's really important to note. I think as
much as the medal tally has exceeded expectations, there have
been some incredible performances by New Zealand athletes who might
not have got a medal but got so much further
than anticipated. Hit personal bests, we're hitting every lack in
the swimming, heading every final they could possibly be. They're

(01:36:41):
still up there with the best in the world, and
I think you might not walk away with the medal,
but I don't think we should underappreciate some of those performances.

Speaker 15 (01:36:50):
Joe Oh one hundred percent agree. I mean, you're competing
really in the end with yourself, and you know the
level athletes have got to and the hard work that
represents not just by them, but by the people around them.
I think it's it's absolute with celebrating and actually not
even just from New Zealand. I mean some of the
athletes from some of those smaller countries, some of our

(01:37:11):
neighbors in the Pacific, you know, they're not starting with
the same ability to access high performance sport resources and
the fact that they're there, the fact that they're competing,
it is something that is absolutely worth celebrating.

Speaker 2 (01:37:25):
Liam, You've got quite a few young children, and I
want to just quickly move on to maths and what
we're going to do with our curriculum here in the
announcement that the government's made. You know, we've got a problem.
We've got to fix it. It's not going to happen overnight.
It's going to take a couple of years. But I
feel like there's a lot of fear mungering going on.
There'll be panicking parents, especially if their children are just
sort of starting to head into school. How do you

(01:37:46):
feel about, you know, your kids in the education they're getting.
You're just getting on with it.

Speaker 22 (01:37:51):
Yeah, I mean we're lucky. You know, we've always had
good teachers. And the criticism I'd make is I think
that we pictures to do to mapps really and you know,
the biggest problem I think is overburdening them by adding
more and more acquirements. And if you want to call
back in it to the basics, it's actually free much
to teach the basics by not overburdening them. But one

(01:38:14):
thing I would also note is I think that there's
a real problem in this country going to be a
lot of sad in school. And you know, so education
has become very fantish in his is on and we
go through these cycles. We have, you know, teen teaching,
and then we go back to the smaller classrooms, and
you know, I think.

Speaker 13 (01:38:32):
What we truly do need.

Speaker 22 (01:38:33):
I think it's some sort of stable consensus about the
way we're going to teach. And I think that the
politicization of it, in terms of flinging back the forwards
one extreme or the other, that is that is one
of the biggest problems that we have.

Speaker 2 (01:38:48):
Yeah, I tend to agree, Joe, do you think it?
I just feel like it's been politicized a little bit
too much.

Speaker 15 (01:38:54):
Yeah, size, I think there's a touch of hysteria and
how it was framed, to be honest, and I'm uncomfortable
with how that that data has been cherry picked. And
that's not to say it's not a really important issue.
It's not to say that it isn't a systemic problem.
But I'm I don't ever think the solution is this
one size fits all. You know, it's reductionist, it's simplistic.

(01:39:16):
The idea that you know, twenty million in a bit
of political grandstone is grandstanding can kind of fix this
years of systemic and chronic underfunding.

Speaker 8 (01:39:27):
I don't know.

Speaker 15 (01:39:28):
I think different kids learn differently. I think teachers often
are the ones who are experts in that. I know
one of my nephews needed to extra support and it
was the teacher who said that. It was the teacher
who knew that, and that unlocked the world for him.
That teachers expertise. So I think the way that teachers
here are almost a political football, and that's a workforce

(01:39:50):
where retention is already a problem. I don't think teachers
will be hearing this discussion and feeling more engaged and committed.

Speaker 16 (01:39:56):
You know it worries me.

Speaker 2 (01:39:58):
Yeah, you got it.

Speaker 12 (01:39:59):
Buy in.

Speaker 2 (01:40:00):
This is going to work. Any any change in any
new system, it has to have buying from those responsible
for putting it into bread.

Speaker 13 (01:40:07):
Yeah, that's true.

Speaker 22 (01:40:08):
At the same time, right that the education system doesn't
exist for the convenience of features. It exists, you know,
to deliver the results that parents wonts. And you know,
the government is the elky government and it's got the
right to sit the where the priorities are. I just
would prefer it. I would love to see more SACIIFI
partisan session. And at the end of the day, though,

(01:40:30):
you know, reading, writing and doing that, that's it's a
pretty good It's a really important baseline to be able
to get on in the world if you've got a
lot of kids, and I like to see our kids
like this that they've got good parents at home, I think,
and so they will they'll be fine anyway. But but
if we don't have the ability for kids who don't
have those great homes to put that support in the

(01:40:52):
school system, then actually the long term outlet for the
country is not going to be great. So I'm in
favor of the terms of basics that I just really
also wish it to be a bit more stable.

Speaker 2 (01:41:03):
There's a lot of anxiousness in our off this morning
as we as the long drawn out high jump final
kind of unfolded. But in between all the anxiousness, there
was a little bit of outrage as well, because my
producer was telling me that her father got charged eight
dollars this week for a long black which is just
beans in hot water. Would you pay eight dollars for
a cupa for a long black Joe.

Speaker 15 (01:41:27):
Oh, I mean, let's get a bit more context. Beans
grown in a far away rainforest that need to be
dried and roasted and bagged and shipped and then brought
into the store where they're paying for staff and rent
and internet and insurance, and then the milk, and then
they make it, and then they put a little heart
on the top.

Speaker 2 (01:41:44):
No milk, No milk, no milk.

Speaker 15 (01:41:47):
I just think everyone knows every time you leave the
house the cost of everything has gone out. I think
we should make the link between the need for everything
to cost more so that businesses can pay for it.
You know, if vote with your wallets, if you think
it's too much, make a coffee at home.

Speaker 2 (01:42:03):
There is that tipping point, isn't there, Lee, And when
you suddenly go oh, that's a step too far.

Speaker 22 (01:42:08):
No, no business was getting a rich stelling coffee. I
can guarantee you that I imagine those suns and so
where those costs go up, it's because of the underlying cough.
You know, nobody's nobody's dropping off consumer here. I'm like
to say myself, I'm an instant coffee drinker, right, so
I like, I'm probably not the best thing to ask

(01:42:28):
but I do know for my clients, nobody's getting riches
stelling coffee a coffee still expensive expenses.

Speaker 2 (01:42:35):
Oh, thank you so much. Liam here and Joe McCarroll.
It is twenty four to twelve News Talks EP.

Speaker 1 (01:42:45):
It's the Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin on News Talks AB.

Speaker 2 (01:42:52):
Joining me now is Jason fine. He's going to be
with you at midday for a weekend sports better as
if he just doesn't fall over. He has been running
around this building since is when I got here at
about six thirty this morning, non stop. You literally ran
past at the wrong moment because my produce caught you
and get in here. Busy man.

Speaker 27 (01:43:08):
I've been practicing. I've been practicing my hyghrat. I've been
practicing my Fosberry.

Speaker 2 (01:43:12):
Flop, channeling, channeling in a little bit of Hamish curve.
How fantastic was he this morning? Look, he gave us
a couple of frights, put a little bit of you know,
it was a very long drawn out final. I don't
think I've ever seen anything quite like that. And actually
when it came down to the fact that there were
you know that they were equal for the gold, I
didn't even know that there was a jump off that.

(01:43:33):
I didn't even know that was such a thing.

Speaker 27 (01:43:35):
No, what they can do. They can and people might
remember this from the last Olympics. If your level with
the same number of misses and you've al miossed the
top height that's been at. So that's the situation this morning.
You can share the gold medal. You can say to
one another, let's share it. Now there's been a bit
of speculation about who said that with a It's been
reported that Hamish Curse said to said to the American,

(01:43:58):
let's share it, and the American said no, So it's
jump So I think Hamish Curb was willing to share it.
But then it's been perhaps contradicted with a couple of
other interviews I've seen. Regardless of all of that, So
they start at the same height, have a jump there,
neither got it, go down two centimeters, both jump once,
neither got it, go down another two centimeters to two
thirty four. The American missus Kerr clears it and there

(01:44:21):
we are gold medal.

Speaker 2 (01:44:22):
It's it's quite strange as a viewer to you you
get more nervous as the hype gets higher and then
you find yourself getting more nervous again as the height lowers,
and very confusing. But what an incredible night, and what
an incredible couple of weeks have you got a It's
impossible to pick one highlight, but what sticks with you

(01:44:43):
at the end of the two weeks about the Olympics
in general?

Speaker 27 (01:44:46):
I loved that This morning. I have to say I've
sort of followed Hamish Kerr's recent career and he had
some lows. He missed, he missed qualifying. He went to
the World Champs last year in Hungary and missed qualifying
for the final, miss three jumps at two twenty five,
which you would normally clear easily. So and he was
facing down that exactly same thing and qualifying here. So
I loved that, loved Van Butcher, but I really actually

(01:45:10):
have enjoyed it all. That's a terrible answer, That's a
great question.

Speaker 2 (01:45:14):
But it's been amazing. And you know, I was watching
the marathon, the men's marathon last night, and as I
did a tickie tour around Paris going and I'm gonna
miss I'm gonna miss Paris as much as I'm going
to miss all the all the athletes as well. Very quickly.
What's on the show today.

Speaker 27 (01:45:27):
Hamish Kurz on the show. Lydia Covers on the show.
I know you've jetted her, but I will too. Dame
Lisa Carrington will to hear from her. And then of
course the All Blacks, let's not forget them. We'll chat
a bit about their lost to Argentina last night on
the show today too.

Speaker 2 (01:45:40):
Sounds good, pony. We'll be joining you at midday.

Speaker 1 (01:45:45):
Sunday with Style The Sunday Session with Francesca Rudkin and
Wiggles for the best selection of great reeds. News Talk
Zvy Travel with Wendy Woo Tours, unique fully inclusive tours
around the world.

Speaker 12 (01:46:01):
Do Travel.

Speaker 2 (01:46:01):
Meghan Singleton, blogger at large dot com, joined us now
good morning.

Speaker 20 (01:46:05):
Good morning.

Speaker 2 (01:46:06):
You've been looking at some cheaper ways to get to
the States.

Speaker 28 (01:46:10):
Yes, I have, because I'm always after a deal. And
actually Fiji Airways it flies a little under the radar,
I think when it comes to us getting to the US.
But actually with one stop they fly from Auckland, Wellington
and christ Church to Nandy, so you think about getting
to the States out of those other cities. And then

(01:46:32):
this week they just announced they're going to start they're
going to add a fourth US city direct from Nandy
and they're going to start flying to Dallas Fort Worth
in December, so that adds to Los Angeles, San Francisco,
and Honolulu, and then they'll be flying all those four
cities three days a week.

Speaker 15 (01:46:50):
So I thought, oh, that's.

Speaker 20 (01:46:51):
A little bit exciting.

Speaker 28 (01:46:52):
And I thought, I wonder if you know, lack is
a big long lay over time, or whether you have
to stay over in Fiji, which hate wouldn't be too
bad a thing probably, but most of them do connect.
Maybe coming back, you know, out of the States and
into Wellington or christ chich you might have to overnight
or take a couple of extra days in Fiji if
you wanted to. So I thought that was quite exciting.

(01:47:15):
And they've also just they're going to be joining one
World or they've become fully fledged one World partners. So
if you're a Quantus member, British Airways, American Airlines, Cafe Pacific,
that sort of thing, they're all now part of that group,
so you can collect those air miles.

Speaker 20 (01:47:31):
And I thought that was really cool.

Speaker 2 (01:47:33):
What kind of prices are we're looking.

Speaker 28 (01:47:34):
At, Well, they're offering a deal, of course, because who
doesn't when they launch a new direct service. But you
can get up to well, they're offering Dallas Fort Worth
for twelve hundred return that's going to expire, and just
had a quick look actually before we spoke about three
more days. But right now you can go up to
La Honolulu for about eleven hundred RETURNYG. I can't even

(01:47:59):
believe it, honestly, although you'll have to save up to
go out for dinner or go shopping in La but.

Speaker 15 (01:48:05):
You can get there cheaply.

Speaker 20 (01:48:06):
At the moment.

Speaker 28 (01:48:06):
They have an economy in an award winning business class section,
so it's no numpty airline. They fly the Airbus A
three fifty, the A three thirty two hundred and so.
And also this because I had a little chat with
them this week to find out what's going on. Their
business class pods are about the same price. They compare

(01:48:29):
well with other carriers premium economy prices.

Speaker 15 (01:48:33):
So mightbe little worth a little squiz.

Speaker 2 (01:48:35):
Yeah, interesting, they're reliable, got a good reputation.

Speaker 28 (01:48:39):
Yeah, yeah they do. And they're not seasonally either, so
this is going to be a year round thing, so
you could just factor that in. Go right, we're going
to go up. We're going to have two or three
days in Fiji, We're going to go on to Dallas,
We're going to do you know, the Texas tour, you know.
And I've got loads of content on the blog as
you know about the US, So I just think it's
something worth considering. Rather than waiting for the direct flights

(01:49:00):
out of Auckland, you've got other ways to get there.

Speaker 2 (01:49:03):
And do you think that this will put pressure on
those who are regularly flying direct from New Zealand to
the States those This is a little bit.

Speaker 28 (01:49:11):
Hope, so a but it's not direct, but I hope.
So you have to kind of spend you know, maybe
around three to five six hours on a layover. You
can actually buy if you're an economy a business class
lounge pass for about one hundred bucks. So if you
do have several hours layover in Fiji, you can do that.
I don't know because it isn't direct, but we'll see. Yeah,

(01:49:34):
hope it does well.

Speaker 11 (01:49:35):
Good on them.

Speaker 2 (01:49:36):
Yeah, love it. Thank you for the update and the
hot tip that was Meghan Singleton. You can find all
her blogs at blogger at large dot com. Twelve to twelve.

Speaker 1 (01:49:44):
Books with Wiggles for the best selection of Greek reads.

Speaker 2 (01:49:50):
Time to talk Books, and Joan joins me. Now, good morning, hello, JP.
Pomaro must be becoming one of our most prolific New
Zealand authors.

Speaker 16 (01:49:59):
Yes, I think I'm right in saying that this is
his seventh book.

Speaker 2 (01:50:02):
Yeah, I think, yeah, I think it is. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:50:03):
Yeah.

Speaker 16 (01:50:03):
So he's a New Zealand guy, New Zealand writer now
living in Melbourne, but he's turned out these terrific thrillers
and this new one is really good. I was really
engaged by it. Sometimes I'll just flick through a book
and read it quite quickly, but this one it was
worth actually taking the time with it. So it's the story.
It's called Seventeen years Later, and it's the story of

(01:50:24):
a guy called Bill who was the chef for a
wealthy family in Cambridge. It's set in Cambridge most of it,
and this family were found murdered in their beds and Bill,
the chef, was convicted of the crime and sent away.
And now seventeen years later, a woman in Australia who's
a globally known podcaster has just won a big award

(01:50:46):
for her podcasts in Australia and she's casting around looking
for the next thing to sink her teeth into, and
she hears about this case in New Zealand where there's
some suspicion that that Bill didn't get a fair trial
seventeen years ago, and her antennae I snap up and
she comes across to New Zealand and starts investigating the
background and uncovers that the police missed at the time,

(01:51:08):
and she teams up with a guy called t K
who was Bill's psychologist in prison for the first many
years that he was inside, and TK tried very hard
to prove that the guy was innocent, but just was
never able to manage it. But when he teams up
with this podcaster and they really start to look into
what happened, it becomes quite enthralling. And JP Pomari I

(01:51:30):
think is kind of a master of misdirection because he
sends you down. I'm reading it and I think, yes,
now I know who did it, And then I turned
the page. Oh, actually maybe it was this guy. And
then you get to the end and you find that
you knew nothing at all.

Speaker 20 (01:51:42):
I love it.

Speaker 2 (01:51:43):
Yeah, that's what you want, isn't it. From a bit
of a qriet entertaining it's really good. Has his started
writing changed much over the years the book, I wouldn't
say that it's changed.

Speaker 16 (01:51:53):
I think he's just got better and better, fantastic.

Speaker 2 (01:51:57):
Last week on the show, we spoke to David Truck
Henwood and he's released a book called Unmasking Monsters, filled
with some really fascinating stories about his thirty seven years
in the police.

Speaker 16 (01:52:08):
Yes, and your listeners will have heard that interview and
will know a lot of what I've gleaned from reading
the book. But as a reader coming to it from
the perspective of the book, I can tell you that
it's absolutely fascinating because I remember back in the eighties
when Joseph Thompson was on the loose and nobody knew
who he was, but he was the serial rapist of

(01:52:28):
South Auckland and people were absolutely terrified and the police tried,
as you would know, to track him down and they
failed until David Henwood and some of his colleagues in
the police force started doing criminal profiling and set up
the country's first criminal profiling unit where they were able
to observe the behaviors of criminals and start to join

(01:52:49):
the dots and make connections and eventually they managed to
get him, and using the same process, of course, they
also managed to get Malcolm Rawer, Chuck Henwood or Dave Henwood.
He is a really interesting guy to read about because
it felt to me like real old style policing. When
he talks about his colleagues in the police force, they've

(01:53:10):
all got nicknames for one another, and it's all very
bloky and very bantery. But he's got this extraordinary empathy
for the people that he came into contact with. And
what I really loved about this book was his focus
on the generational harm that's being done to people in
that community without anything really coming in to make it better.

(01:53:32):
To the point where actually he was and he I
can't remember if he said this in the interview, but
he had a criminal with whom he interacted a lot,
and they were going to write a book together, yes,
And Dave was going to write one chapter and this
guy was going to write the other about events which
they had in common but were told from each of
their perspective.

Speaker 2 (01:53:51):
So he's a really.

Speaker 16 (01:53:52):
Interesting guy, I think, and the kind of policeman that
you'd really want to see out there on the beat
and working with communities.

Speaker 2 (01:53:59):
Thank you so much, joeing those two books seventeen years
Later by JP Pomire and Unmasking Monsters by Dave Henwood.
We'll talk next week.

Speaker 16 (01:54:08):
See you then, keep It's simple.

Speaker 1 (01:54:10):
It's Sunday the Sunday Session with Francesca Rudkine and Wiggles
for the best selection of Gregys News Talk.

Speaker 3 (01:54:17):
Zedb, thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:54:18):
So much for joining me this morning on the Sunday Session.
Thank you so much to Kerry for producing the show
as well, Gail and Joy. We have a copy of
Don't Worry about the Robots Coming Your Way, Joe Cribb's
latest book, So thank you very much to everybody who
entered that competition. Next week, former FBI director James Comey
joins me to talk about his latest crime novel, It's

(01:54:38):
a Goodie Too, And Rural Fashion is taking over. Fashion
designer Liz Mitchell joins me to talk about how fashion
is going from the high street to the high country.
Jason Pine is up next with weekend sport taking me
through to three o'clock today and of course final night
at the Olympics. Tonight we have got the women's marathon
and the rest of the night we're at the Valodrome,

(01:54:59):
kicking off at nine o'clock through till about midnight. Best
of luck to our cyclists there this evening, Hey, and
the rest of your Sunday afternoon. Take care. Thanks HMIe.

Speaker 1 (01:55:42):
For more from the Sunday Session with Francesca Rudkin, listen
live to News Talks it B from nine am Sunday,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.

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