Full Show Podcast: 17 May 2026

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sunday Session podcast with Francesca Rudkin
from News Talks EDB.

Speaker 2 (00:13):
It's Sunday. You know what that means.

Speaker 1 (00:15):
It's the Sunday Session with Francesca Rudkin and Wickles for
the best election of Great Reads News Talks EDB.

Speaker 3 (00:28):
Good morning and welcome to the Sunday Session. Coming up
on the show today, I'm joined by one of my
favorite narrative nonfiction writers, investigative journalist Patrick rad and Keith.
Patrick has been in the country for the Auckland Writers' Festival,
which is on this weekend. Man, it has been busy.
He's here to talk about his latest book, London Falling.
It's another fascinating story from the author, this time investigating

(00:49):
the mysterious death of a nineteen year old in London
and twenty nineteen. Patrick is with me art to ten
and we have giveaways of the book as well. After eleven,
I'm joined by Australian guitarist Tony Emmanuel, who begins his
New Zealand tour in Auckland tonight. Tommy is a living
legend in the world of acoustic guitars, celebrating his jaw

(01:12):
dropping technique innovation and boundless musicality. I'm thrilled he is
going to join us for chat and to play live.
Very exciting. Tommy Emmanuel is in the studio after eleven
and Erica Stanford will also join us as our to
talk about the changes to NCEEA, and of course is
always You're most welcome to text anytime ninety two ninety.

Speaker 2 (01:32):
Two for Sunday session.

Speaker 3 (01:36):
So on Thursday, far Mac announced it has added Semaglue
Tide better known as its brand name would go V
to its list of medicines suitable for future funding. It's
on the Options for Investment list, which is a medication
that Farmac would like to fund it if it has
the budget to do so. Hopefully this will come about
sooner than later. And I'm not talking about funding it
for every Tom Dick and Harry who wants to lose

(01:58):
a few kgs, but for the seriously obests who are
dealing with all the risks and diseases that come with it,
such as diabetes, renal failure, karov skilar disease and the
impact on joints. So at this stage, the criteric criteria
for funding the drug states it would be available for
people with the body mass index of more than fifty,
and also to those with a BMI of more than

(02:18):
thirty five and at least two comobilities. So last week
an article in the New Zealand Held caught my attention
and I haven't been able to stop thinking about it.
The title of the article was leading causes of death
by age in New Zealand. I know it's a cheery number. Now.
While the when and where of our deaths is largely

(02:38):
unknown to many of us, the data explains how we're
likely to die depending on how old we are. So
in our twenties, external injuries are the leading cause of death.
They're classified as intentional, so it might be suicide or
self harm, or assault or unintentional falls, burns, vehicle crashes,
dog bites and drownings. But as we move into our thirties,
all cancers, I love them all together. All cancers become

(03:01):
the leading cause of death. But in our forties a
trend emerges. It stays with us until our eighties and beyond.
The all cancer group remains the leading cause of death,
but heart disease moves into second, and as we age,
suicide reduces and the chance of dying from respiratory diseases,
diabetes or stroke also increases. Now, look, this is not

(03:23):
hugely surprising, right, but when it's clearly defined by the
data and ingress on this page, few to see it
was a little confronting. It is a simple way to
look at how to prioritize healthcare and as I found,
an effective motivator to encourage people to do what they
can to beat the odds. So yes, let's fund with GOV.

(03:43):
Think of the impact a good have on our overburdened
health system and the country's productivity. This drug could be
a game change for young people and their mental health,
for those unable to work due to weight related issues,
and those who could potentially end up needing a heart transplant.
But it's also worth starting slow because when it comes
to criteria for funding the drug, we need to start
with those most at risk who will benefit the most

(04:04):
from it. With one in three New Zealand adults regarded
as obeste being labeled, Obeste is not enough to qualify.
Like all drugs, there are side effects and risks, and
more researchers needed to determine long term effects. But hey,
when you've got a tool as powerful as this, we
should be making the most of it in the most
equitable manner possible. In the meantime, I shall do what
I can to look after myself a bit better.

Speaker 2 (04:26):
For the Sunday Session the nice Welcome.

Speaker 3 (04:29):
To Text on ninety two ninety two write Eric Stantra
is going to join us a little later in the
hour to talk about changes around NCAA qualifications. But up
next we're going to talk to the Chair of the
New Zealand Secondary Principles Council, Steve McCracken, to find out
how schools and teachers feel about the news. It is
a eleven past nine year with news Talks ATB.

Speaker 2 (04:47):
There's no better way to start your Sunday.

Speaker 1 (04:50):
It's the Sunday Session with Francesca Rutkin and Wit Girls
for the best selection of great reeds use talks at BE.

Speaker 3 (04:59):
Good to have you with us. So details of the
NCAA qualification replacement have been announced. The new system will
have a compulsory Literature and Humor Foundation Award a Year
twelve New Zealand Certificate of Education and year thirteen New
Zealand Advanced Certificate of Education Year twelve and thirteens will
study at least five subjects a year, with a minimum
of three subjects required to achieve the certificate. Students in

(05:19):
year nine this year will be the first to try
the new qualification. Education Minister, as I mentioned, Erica STANFORDI
is a bit tied up at the moment, should be
with us later this hour, but right now I'm joined
by Chair of the New Zealand Secondary Principals Council, Steve McCracken.
Thank you for your time this morning, Steve.

Speaker 4 (05:34):
No problems at all.

Speaker 5 (05:35):
Good morning, Princess.

Speaker 3 (05:36):
Okay, So broad question to start with, is this an
upgrade from NCAA. The Government has said they wanted a
clearer and more credible qualification. Is that what we've got here?

Speaker 5 (05:45):
Look, there's nothing wrong with the current NCIA system. I
think it's a very valid qualification and those who are
still going to go through it in the next couple
of years, we'll still be able to go off and
be the next word leader that they can with this
current qualification system. What I think we've got is actually
I suppose an advancement in terms of the Minister's priorities
and making it really clear and concise and able to

(06:08):
be read really easily by the public. And understanding what
NCAA is currently. It's a little bit complicated, if you
could say that. So, yeah, it is definite development. However,
we've got to make sure we don't throw out twenty
twenty five years worth of work and that through this
transition period.

Speaker 3 (06:29):
Your overall thoughts on the replacement qualification, because when I
look at it as someone whose children have just left school,
actually it's pretty similar. You know, we had to get
your numerousy in year e eleven, you get your literacy
in year twelve, and you have to have three you know,
get three courses in year thirteen. So actually, to me,

(06:50):
when I look at it, this isn't going to be
a huge shift for parents or students to get their
head around. It's quite The qualification itself is a sort
of quite similar to what we have.

Speaker 5 (06:59):
Yeah, and on the surface, I think that that's a
very fast in Francesca. However, when you get underneath the
detail or start looking at the detail and a lot
more with the microscopic view, I suppose the moving from
the literacy and uniracy at its current level of looking
at the curriculum around year nine and ten and raising
that up to year eleven, does raise the bar as

(07:21):
such and allow a little bit more complicated knowledge of
literacy and numeracy to be assessed. But in terms of
the overall qualification and what that looks like is going
to be very similar. The five or six grade points
are a little bit more detailed obviously than the four
that we have currently, So get a little bit more,

(07:44):
a little bit more detail around what the students have
achieved at their particular subject and having that overall qualification
with an endorsement or that in three, four or five
subjects actually assesses what is going to happen or what
students have actually been taught and can understand and be assessed.

Speaker 3 (08:05):
On Steve, have you seen the kilm.

Speaker 5 (08:08):
You've seen parts of it of course in years nine
and ten, and that's come out and then on Friday
there was the release of the first tranch of the curriculum.
So yeah, at an outset, there is quite a bit
of change in things. But I think overall, once we
get through and into some of the detail and feedback
and refinement, I think it's going to be a really

(08:30):
interesting process to go through.

Speaker 3 (08:32):
So the curriculum isn't complete yet. The senior for the
eleven twelve and thirteen.

Speaker 5 (08:37):
No, that's right. So the draft has only just been
released of the first it's being released in three parts,
and the first part was released on Friday for consultation.
So I understand that there's been a huge amount of
work being done in the background and writing furiously and
quickly around trying to get this ready for the timelines
that have been given.

Speaker 3 (08:57):
Okay, because it does feel like we should have probably
got the curriculum in place before we then decided on
what structure the assessment would take place. That would that
make sense?

Speaker 5 (09:06):
Yeah, absolutely makes sense. Right, curriculum in terms of an
education perspective, curriculum always rights assessment and that's that's really
clear and making sure we're understanding I think the minister's
announcements over the last twelve months or so that there
has been around the structure of the assessment, not necessarily
the detail. So having a more detail now is good,
But you're right around, Actually the curreculum is really where

(09:29):
the meter is on the bones.

Speaker 3 (09:31):
Internal assessments remain, but exams in our compulsory is a
mix important.

Speaker 5 (09:36):
Yes, exams are a definite moment and snapshot in time
around assessment and making sure that there is that knowledge
that can be regurgitative, use of a better word, and
really assessed in that high stakes assessment stuff. But actually,
what we've become really accustomed to is being able to
have learners and students really be able to input and

(10:00):
make sure their knowledge is really embedded and then assess
the appropriate time when they're ready to be assessed. So
a mixture of assessment is a really good thing.

Speaker 3 (10:11):
Science is now, yes, science is now compulsory and year eleven,
will schools have the resources to manage this?

Speaker 5 (10:17):
It's going to be a real interesting challenge, right and
most schools, nearly all the schools that I've spoken to
personally have science as are either strongly recommended or highly
recommended subject. So there will be some schools though that
don't offer science as a compulsory subject, and there will
be a change needed from them in terms of how
they structure their schools and programs. There could be a

(10:40):
facility challenge, and there could be a teacher challenge as
well in terms of actually making sure we have the
appropriate workstream going on there. But overall, I have a
really good progress there in terms of making science compulsory
as well.

Speaker 3 (10:51):
So up until now schools have had the ability to
manage NCAA the way that best suits their school and
students by in a way sort of mandating education. Now,
are you concerned that those who are already struggling at
school are going to be disadvantage? Do you think more
will leave that a qualification?

Speaker 5 (11:06):
There's always that risk, right, However, this really strengthens to
qualification around being able to ensure that the curriculum is,
as the Minister said, knowledge rich and really really clear
in terms of what is being taught and what is
being delivered in schools. I think when we get down
into the detail, though, I think what I'm reading is
that you'll see that whatever the students are able to

(11:29):
do and be assessed on and be good at will
actually show through their record of learning. Excuse me, so, yeah,
if for example, there's a skill in terms of the
Barista course of that that will show on the record
of learning. So it might not look like what it
is currently, but will definitely show in terms of the
skills and attributes that the young people can have.

Speaker 3 (11:52):
Steph can't thank you enough for your time on a
Sunday morning, very much appreciate it. That was chair of
the New Zealand Secondary Principals Counsel Steve McCracken. There at
is twenty one past.

Speaker 2 (12:02):
Nine the Sunday session.

Speaker 3 (12:04):
It is time to talk politics, joined by news talks.
He'd be senior political reporter Azaria how Good.

Speaker 6 (12:09):
Morning, good morning, good to be with you.

Speaker 7 (12:12):
We got some.

Speaker 3 (12:12):
Lovely news this week. Brook van Dervelden has given more
details on why she's leaving politics.

Speaker 4 (12:18):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (12:18):
Brook Vanvelden, the MP for Tarmiki, acts Deputy Minister of
Workplace Relations Internal Affairs as well, has announced some great news.

Speaker 8 (12:27):
She's pregnant.

Speaker 6 (12:27):
She's expecting to be a mother. Brook van Velden has
done an interview with The New Zealand Herald announcing the news,
and she said that the baby is actually due around
the same time as the election. She's told ACT leader
David Seymour after they essentially had a catch up at
the pub and Seymour noticed that she was on the

(12:48):
ginger beer instead of the wine. Brooke van Velden also
sort of spoke to The Herald about the news, including
how her life will change. She also says this is
not why she is resigning from politics, so she has
had that made that distinction clear. She says she didn't
think it be a good career move to announce that

(13:08):
she was retiring because she's pregnant. She just says it's
a good alignment. She also said as well, she's had
some strange cravings for very cold, icy water and also
crackers with marmite on them, which I will say is
not that strange in terms of pregnancy cravings that I've
heard from other people. But she's also talked about how

(13:29):
this is going to change her life. Have a listen
to what she's said and how she describes this.

Speaker 9 (13:36):
There's no way that I could have planned for this
timing to happen. And I think for anyone who has
tried to start a family, they will know that you
can't just pick a date and say that's when it's
going to happen. It will happen on its own time.
It just does seem like it was meant to be
in some ways. This is all aligned to be due

(13:57):
at the same time as the election. So while all
my other colleagues will be really excited to know what
the results are happening on election night, I'll be getting
really excited for something else.

Speaker 6 (14:09):
So some big, big news there for Brooke van Velden.
She is also aiming to work for really as long
as she possibly can. She's expecting the baby in early November.
Election November seventh, so it is a very very sort
of soon in terms of that timeframe. We're obviously wishing
her all the best, and meanwhile Actors looking for a

(14:30):
new deputy leader. They've also announced that James Christmas will
be contesting the Tarmicky seat that she holds. That'll we
want to keep an eye on because it was maybe
a surprise to some that she won Tarmacky last time.
So we'll see if it stays Pink this election.

Speaker 3 (14:47):
Yes, absolutely, and there are no other sort of murmurings
about who might take on that role of deputy leader.

Speaker 6 (14:54):
Not really, I mean there are sort of questions in
terms of when that might happen. I mean we would
be expecting probably to have that be in place before
the election, so the likes of sort of if James
Christmas gets that role, it seems unlikely, but we'll see.
I mean act has some depth now. I mean it

(15:15):
used to be obviously a party with one MP for
some time, but now they have people who've been there
for a while, people who are ministers people who are
quite outspoken, so they do have quite a selection there.
But I haven't heard any sort of further rumors in
terms of who that may be, but I'll keep you
in the loop.

Speaker 3 (15:34):
Thank you very much, Azariah. It's been confirmed the government's
changing up treaty references and legislation.

Speaker 6 (15:39):
Yeah, the government's agreed to change or scrap references to
the Treaty of Whiteongy in nineteen laws. The Justice Minister
Paul Goldsmith has confirmed two references would be amended, seven
would be repealed, and in ten laws it would essentially
be specified further sort of scaled back to take into

(15:59):
account the Treaty principles rather than honor or give effect
to that sort of the specific wording in those laws,
and it makes good on a coalition agreement between National
and New Zealand.

Speaker 10 (16:11):
First.

Speaker 6 (16:11):
However, actors also using it to campaign, which is I
suppose not unexpected given it's an election year. David Seymours
says it demonstrates why the country needs clear definitions of
the Treaty principles, essentially again making the case for the
quite contentious Treaty Principles Bill. Meanwhile, the WAITEANNGI Tribunal has

(16:32):
actually been probing the Crown over the Education Treaty Clause review,
so we are expecting the debate around this one to
be quite a significant one. It could be contentious as well, because,
as you'll remember, with the Treaty Principal's Bill, although this
is different, people had some quite strong views about that one.
So we are looking forward to a robust debate in Parliament,

(16:55):
shall we say, and potentially some protests as well outside
Azariah Hall.

Speaker 3 (16:59):
Thank you very much for your time and enjoy the
rest of your Sunday. Investigative journalists and all the Patrick
redd and keepers with me after ten to talk about
the latest mystery he's written about. He takes us into
the excessively wealthy and violent world of Russian oligarchs and
London gangs and how one nice middle class nineteen year
old got caught up in it all and it cost
him his life. We've also got a couple of copies

(17:21):
of the book to give away as well, so don't
forget that is coming up after the ten This morning,
it is twenty six past nine. You're with News Talks at.

Speaker 1 (17:28):
B It's the Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin.

Speaker 2 (17:35):
On News Talks at b.

Speaker 3 (17:38):
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(18:21):
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Speaker 2 (18:26):
For Sunday session.

Speaker 3 (18:44):
You know what this is, don't you? Yes, this is
Dalta Gudram who and this is her final performance at
the Eurovision contest, which is taking place right now in Vienna.
We've done it. We've got through the performances. We've got
through the opera, the dance bangers and everything in between.
We've enjoyed the daring and eccentric and garish costumes. It's

(19:05):
all God, isn't it. We're just waiting now. Twenty five
performances have taken place, and now we're just waiting. And
I know that you're on the edge of your seat.
So at some point throughout the show today we will
attempt to bring you the winn at Finland apparently is
the one to beat. But Delta, the Australian entrant, Delta Gudrum,
of course, is kind of up. There is a thought

(19:28):
that she'll definitely be in the top five, and you're
probably thinking yourself, so why is Australia competing in Eurovision?
Very good question, and it has something to do with
the European Broadcast Union, who runs Eurovision. They did Australia
drawing because they thought it was a good business case
for it, because Australia's got its broadcast at SBS and
they get good numbers for it and everyone pays for it.
So they went, oh, Okay, gone on, and I think

(19:49):
they came a contract for sort of five ten years
or something. They did want them to start in Asia
Pacific Song Contest, which they haven't done. But never mind.
But is it unfair to send someone as well famous
as Delta to compete in the Eurovision? I mean, how
are you going to compete against Delta. She's got the
big hair, she's got the power ballad voice, she's got
the performance. Anyway, we shall wait and see. I know

(20:10):
that you're all on tenderhowks about that? I think if
your texts, I'm very happy my child will now get
a top level education. I backstand for one hundred percent.
Somebody said, look, yeah, I think we all agree. We're
already police to the arise in the level of the
standard of English, your mass it's going to be required,
and that science is going to be there at year eleven.
I think humanities is still very important, and I think

(20:31):
that it has a part to play in this world
of AI because communication and critical thinking and creativity and
innovation and ethical reasoning and a human centered approach are
going to be quite important for us to decide how
we're going to use the AI. And that's what you
get from your humanity, So it's a bit concerned about
the sideline of your humanities. But I think it's all

(20:52):
about how we're going to Are we going to have
the resources, Are we going to have the teachers trained,
Are we going to have the science facilities and the
science teachers available to teach more science? Are we going
to have our teachers all ready to go to lift
those levels? So I suppose they're the kind of the
main questions that we are very keen to talk to
the Minister about, and we are hoping that she is

(21:14):
going to join us shortly here on news Talk setting.
It is twenty six to ten.

Speaker 1 (21:22):
For Sunday Session full show podcast on iHeartRadio powered by
News TALKSB.

Speaker 3 (21:29):
Thank you very much for your texts, High Franchiscott, I
cried when I heard of the Ministry of Education's plans.
If for form year eleven, I chose English, French, Latin
History and geography. I wing to Auckland University and taught
at secondary school for many years. Why try to diminish
the arts subjects? Why try to force the sciences on
all pupils. Erica's daughter wants to be a chemical engineer.
You've got on her. But I feel many pupils who

(21:51):
I taught did not want such a career, and that's
the important thing, right, Yes, and I think there'll be
a variety of science taught. If you look at some
schools now that encourage science, they'll have you know, you've
got your biology of physics, and you're and things, but
not everybody's kind of chemistry. Not everyone's up for that.

(22:14):
So then they might offer earth sciences, which keeps you
kind of going. But it's a little bit different. But look,
I completely agree with you, Francisca. Is there anything new
in the curriculum that focuses on civics and money education
and management for six secondary schools? Yes, there is, there is.

(22:34):
I don't know about management. I mean you can already
do business, can't you. But there is some on civics.
There's a bit of philosophy in there and things as well. Anyway,
hopefully we will get Erica Stanford with us shortly and
we will be able to go over there for you. Okay,
haven't listen to us so once just a casual keep pastime.
Stone skimming in New Zealand has now hit the big time.

(22:55):
Yesterday the inaugural alter. A Stone Skimming Championship was held
at the beautiful Lake are where with two national champions crowned.
The competition has been organized to raise funds for melanoma
in New Zealand. Organizer of the event, Richie m Lambing
joins me. Now, good morning, Richie, good morning, and how
are you. I'm very good. Tell me how did the

(23:17):
idea for a national skimming championship come about?

Speaker 11 (23:20):
It had already been always been floated down here at
Lake Hawia with our beautiful, beautiful surrounds in Central Otago
prime schist stones, which, as per Earth Sciences New Zealand
were voted the best skimming stones in New Zealand to skim.
But it was a serendipitous event at the World Stone
Skimming Championship, a cheating scandal that basically gave us some
leverage and in a realization that stone skimming in New

(23:43):
Zealand is more than just a pastime.

Speaker 3 (23:44):
Okay, So how do you select the stones? Because of
course stone selection is key to a good.

Speaker 2 (23:51):
Skim, right, It's where it all starts.

Speaker 11 (23:53):
And we have a device that we've called the Skimometer.
It's basically a ring of truth and the stones for
the alted Our Stone Skimming Championship had to be within
three inches in diameter, so it had to fall within
that ring of truth. But when it comes to selecting
a good stone, think about surfing or think about water skiing.
They use rails to turn. You do really want rails

(24:14):
on your stone. You want rounded edges and ideally a
convex surface so there's going to be less friction on
the water. But as per the National champion open male
category yesterday, he had a stone which he thought was
a dud and it went the furthest in the open
male category. So it just goes to show sometimes far
the winning throw for the open male category yesterday was

(24:36):
fifty two meters, But an even better story blew everyone
out of the water. Abby McDonald aka skim Dog Millionaire.
She threw seventy two meters. She threw the furthest of
the day. I think it was about yeah, by a
good twenty meters. So Abbey's an incredible athlete. She'll be
off to Scotland to compete in the World Stones Coming

(24:59):
Championship in September.

Speaker 3 (25:01):
That is incredible. Just could just go back to the
skimming competition overseas where there was the cheating scandal. How
do you cheat it?

Speaker 11 (25:09):
So, yeah, so if you tamper with your stones. So
as part of the regulatory framework on stone selection at
the World's they actually some people brought sandpaper and so
nefarious activity. They sanded down their stones the idea that
they were going to skim further, So, what we introduced
this year, which the athletes didn't know about, was this
anti cheating framework where once they actually registered their stones,

(25:32):
we took them away from them so they couldn't tamper
with them until they actually threw.

Speaker 2 (25:37):
So it just put everyone on an even keel there.

Speaker 3 (25:40):
That's so funny. I was going to say to you
it is as simple as a bit of sandpaper in
the pocket.

Speaker 2 (25:44):
But yes, it is.

Speaker 3 (25:45):
What's the difference between skimming and skipping? They are different,
aren't they?

Speaker 4 (25:49):
They are.

Speaker 11 (25:49):
They both have their place when it comes to a
stone skimming competition. So skimming is verified on the distance,
but skipping is how many times it actually touches the water.
But so for skipping and the stone skimming competition, the
stone has to skip at least twice to actually be
called a valid skim. But Kurt Steiner holds the current
world record for stone skipping, which is eighty eight bounces

(26:12):
on the water. But then we have Dougie Isaac's the
current world record holder for stone skimming at one hundred
and twenty one meters, so they both had their place,
but they just natural variance on stone.

Speaker 3 (26:23):
I'm not as good at skimming or skipping as I
thought it was. Apparently, how do you measure these throws?
All eighty eight skipping hops?

Speaker 11 (26:33):
We had an intense training camp with where a group
of stones skimming delegates in the experts called Task Force Skim,
and basically we had a lane system set up by
the wonderful Marine and Sports and Monika was that lane
had ten meter increments and in between those ten meter
boys there were too many two meter boys as well.
So our Task Force Skim are land marshals. They would

(26:56):
line up along that lane system and they would just
operate within a ten meter bandwidth, so where that stone
landed they would actually be able to verify whether it
was a twenty seven or twenty eight meters. However, once
we got to the finals, we used far more expertise.
We had sudden land development consultants and the BEDS videographers
and they were able to use both triangulation with surveying

(27:18):
technology and then drones as well to actually verify within
centimeters how far the furtherest thos actually skimmed.

Speaker 3 (27:25):
Oh looks such fun, Richie. But also you've raised money
for a really good cause, Melanoma New Zealand. How much
did you manage to raise?

Speaker 11 (27:32):
We raised over thirty thousand dollars. We're going to do
the contest today. Going into yesterday, we.

Speaker 2 (27:37):
Had already raised thirty thousand dollars.

Speaker 11 (27:40):
But the wonderful thing I guess about the event yesterday,
as we had smaller and more entertaining events, the auction
especially brought out the competitive streak, as did Stone scamming,
So the auction actually really went gangbusters. We're expecting once
we do the final tally, I expect we could be
over forty thousand dollars for Melanoma New Zealand.

Speaker 3 (27:58):
Oh fantastic, And thank you so much for joining me
this morning, Richie. Really appreciate appreciate it. So it was
Richie Lemming there. I'm talking about the out Stone skimming
champions and I'm sure that if you google them you
might be able to find some video footage of what
sound like some very impressive skimming and skipping that was
taking place. It is seventeen to tenure with Newstalk ZIBB

(28:19):
here yourself.

Speaker 2 (28:20):
Think it's the mic Hosking Breakfast.

Speaker 12 (28:22):
Not getting any easy for any New Zealand.

Speaker 13 (28:23):
Fuel bills up two hundred and forty million, capacities cut
three to five percent.

Speaker 12 (28:27):
Now they're looking at cost cutting programs and jobs. Nickel
Revy shankers with is this.

Speaker 2 (28:30):
It or is there more to come?

Speaker 14 (28:32):
If you're referring to the financial outcome for the airline,
it's tied.

Speaker 2 (28:36):
Into how long the conflict's going to last. So the
longer it lasts, the worse it could get for you.

Speaker 13 (28:40):
Will necessarily get worse from a run rate perspective, but
it will mean that it weighs as down as far
as our financial.

Speaker 2 (28:46):
Results fuels down.

Speaker 3 (28:47):
So is that not getting better for you?

Speaker 2 (28:49):
Being down is helpful, but it's all context. Isn't it normal?

Speaker 9 (28:52):
For us?

Speaker 2 (28:52):
As eighty five dollars a barrel?

Speaker 14 (28:54):
It's gone down from the heady heights of two hundred
to about one fifty, So it's down but not down enough.

Speaker 10 (28:59):
Back tomorrow at six am the mic Hosking Breakfast with a.

Speaker 2 (29:02):
Vida news talk zib grab a cover.

Speaker 1 (29:06):
It's a Sunday session with Francesca Rutgert and Whiggles for
the best selection of great greens used talks.

Speaker 2 (29:12):
I'd be earlier this.

Speaker 3 (29:13):
L we heard from Secondary Principles Council around the new
NCEA replacement qualification. Education Minister Erica Stanford joins me. Now,
thank you so much for your time this morning.

Speaker 8 (29:22):
Erica, I no problem, Good morning.

Speaker 3 (29:24):
Okay, lots of good stuff here. It's not a huge
leap to understand the change in the qualification structure. It's
very sort of similar to what students need to achieve
at present. Good to see science being prioritized, avenues into
trade retained as much simpler grading system so that parents
like me don't get confused between what an A in
and E is. But there is some concern around the

(29:45):
detail of the curriculum. How far along is the curriculum.

Speaker 15 (29:51):
The curriculum is currently being led by some amazing secondary
principles and a bunch of writers from schools around the country.
The first tranch has just dropped for consultation. They're going
to be dropping it in three tranches to just not
sort of overwhelm sector. I've got a group of principles
who are keeping an eye on it, the Curriculum Advisory Group,

(30:12):
and their feedback so far is it that it's the
best curriculum I've ever seen. So I'm feeling really confident.
And that's important because all of our reforms are underpinned
by a knowledge rich, internationally comparable, consistent national curriculum that
most people don't know we don't currently have in senior secondary.

Speaker 3 (30:29):
So we're raising the bar when it comes to our
literacy and our numeracy. Are we ready to deliver this
because actually we need to start delivering it to those
students in year nine.

Speaker 15 (30:38):
Now we do, and that's why you will see in
budget this year a secondary focus to make sure that
we are properly resourcing the sector not only with classroom
resources and lesson plans, but also professional learning and development.

Speaker 8 (30:53):
And you've seen us do that in primary and we'll
do it again for secondary.

Speaker 3 (30:56):
Okay, so science of course is going to be compulsory
up to year eleven. When we spoke to the Secondary
Principal's Council, they said, look, there could be some teach
issue there and some facility issues there. How we're going
to address those.

Speaker 15 (31:12):
Yes, that is correct, and I am going to make
sure that the data we get for the first time
ever tells us which subjects we are shorten and where.
For too long we've not been able to tell by
subject where we need people. So next year we'll be
able to do that. I have the tools up my
sleeve in order to be able to target those teachers

(31:34):
where they are needed through the on site teacher training,
the teacher bonding scheme to make sure that we are
packing up science teachers and putting them where they are required,
so we can build that capability over the next couple
of years.

Speaker 3 (31:47):
Will there be subjects that will be purely determined by
an external exam or will all subjects have an internal aspect?

Speaker 15 (31:55):
All subjects will have an internal assessment. Was very important
to us to make sure that students can show what
they know and can do through internals, and especially in
artistic subjects like performance music or art or photography, where
you can imagine a portfolio or a performance will be
very important, or even in science when you're demonstrating an experiment,

(32:15):
but also important that at the end of the year
they're able to demonstrate the knowledge that they've learned over
the year. In examination conditions. And the key difference that
many people haven't picked up on between this system and
the old is everything you do counts. So prior, if
you sat a standard and you failed it, you've got
nothing if you sit your exam under this new when

(32:37):
you you will sit your exam under this new system,
even if you only get forty five percent, that forty
five percent will count towards your overall grade when we
aggregate everything together. So that's why it incentivizes students to
go to their exam, to do well in their internals,
to make sure that they get the best possible shot
of a good grade at the end.

Speaker 3 (32:56):
I think probably the thing that most parents and students
want at the moment is some certainty. And you have
said that you're not sure how you're going to balance
the weight of that exam compared to the entire assessments
in all these subjects. Yet when are you going to
be able to tell students.

Speaker 8 (33:10):
That it won't be too long?

Speaker 15 (33:12):
Where what we're doing is, as you know, writing the
curriculum at the same time we're making these announcements, and
so once we have confirmed the curriculum, it has been
written and confirmed, then we will be able to make
announcements on the waiting of those subjects. But parents can
broadly expect that for performance based and artistic based subjects
that the waiting on the end of your exam will

(33:35):
be far lower than, for example, if you were sitting
in English or a biology or a physics exam. More broadly,
but we will have information on that will release it
as soon as we're able to once the curriculum has
been finalized.

Speaker 3 (33:48):
Okay, why are we sidelining humanities when every expert tells
us critical thinking and the humanities is what's going to
provide us with the job devents against AI.

Speaker 15 (33:57):
What makes you think that we're sidelining those things.

Speaker 3 (33:59):
Well, I'm just hearing from well obviously art history. Don't
get me. They're very passionate, the art history lovers out there.
It feels like language is getting sidelined. I've been told by.

Speaker 15 (34:09):
Teachers, Oh, not at all languages. The curriculum is being written.
I mean, the issue with art history was that they're
just wasn't in the volume that we needed to be
able to.

Speaker 8 (34:22):
Invest in that subject.

Speaker 15 (34:23):
But what we are doing is taking that knowledge and
putting it into some of the art subjects like photography
and art, for example, and fine art, so that when
you sit your final year exam you can show what
you know about art history or the history of music,
or the history of photography, for example. So it's not

(34:44):
being lost, it's just being shifted into those areas.

Speaker 3 (34:47):
I think it's also a little concerned with science. Now
I've been compulsory and you're eleven. You've got mass, you've
got science, you've got English, You've got room for two
more subjects, and sometimes the squeeze comes on to those subjects,
you know what I mean. So you know, I think
people are very concerned that you're having to make decisions
quite early on in your career about what you're going
to do, and those humanity slips away. Do you think
that the this curriculum will excite students?

Speaker 10 (35:09):
It will.

Speaker 15 (35:09):
I mean we are writing a whole lot of new
subjects that didn't exist before, like politics, philosophy and civics
and journalism, media and communications, advanced mathematics. I mean, there's
a whole load of really new exciting subjects to engage
students and young people and their learning. So there will
be a smallest board of things they can choose from,

(35:30):
but it is really important that the basics in mathematics
and English, and also scientific understanding and not necessarily science itself,
but a way of thinking and analyzing and critiquing and
proving whether or not you are right or wrong, or
challenging your assumptions or your thoughts based on scientific evidence,
and the way that we prove or disprove things is

(35:52):
very important skills that young people need to take on
into further learning.

Speaker 8 (35:57):
So it's been very well received that we're.

Speaker 15 (36:01):
Including science as a base subject in year eleven. And look,
a lot of schools, but half of schools already do that,
but it's important that the other half give those students
the opportunity to learn those skills as well.

Speaker 3 (36:14):
Look, I don't think anyone's going to complain about raising
the standard of the qualification. But you know, when I
talk to, you know, my seventeen or nineteen year old
about what was the most important thing that schoed? Was
it the curriculum, you know, was it the qualification? Was
it the way it was great? They all said it
all comes down to the teacher. You know, if you
don't have a good teacher, it doesn't matter what None

(36:35):
of this really matters. The government has spoken very positively
about teacher training and support and teacher aid support, but
where is it. I haven't spoken to one teacher who's
seen a change yet.

Speaker 15 (36:46):
Well, we invested seven hundred and fifteen million dollars at
the last election into our vulnerable kids, predominantly in those
early years, because if we know we go in early,
we can solve so many problems later in life. So
the early investment into the early intervention scheme has been enormous.
I mean it's over six hundred million dollar into just

(37:07):
that scheme of teacher aides and learning support and early
intervention teachers and educational psychologists and speech language therapists.

Speaker 8 (37:16):
It is a massive investment. We have to still roll
on it out.

Speaker 3 (37:19):
We need to help the kids who are year nine
now who have missed that opportunity, don't we.

Speaker 15 (37:24):
And we have a budget package that is coming up
this year that is secondary focused, like we've done in primary,
to make sure that we are ensuring that teachers are
implementing these reforms with fidelity and making sure that all
children have their ability to succeed. So you will see
in May this year that secondary focused budget that will

(37:44):
give teachers the resources they need they need alongside this
world leading curriculum to support them.

Speaker 3 (37:53):
Looking forward to it. Erica Stanford Education Minister, thank you
very much for your time this morning. Appreciate it. It
is a five to ten the.

Speaker 1 (38:01):
Sunday Session Full show podcast on my Heart Radio powered
my News Talk tenB.

Speaker 3 (38:08):
Investigative journalist Patrick Radd and Keith joins me next. Patrick
is responsible for bringing to light the story of the
Sackler family and how they made a fortune from Oxy
Conton and his book Empire of Pain. He's investigated a
notorious killing in Northern Ireland and it's devastating repercussions and
say Nothing. You might have seen the screen adaptation of that.
I think it's on Disney and it's Snakehead. He explored
the business of people smuggling in New York's Chinatown and

(38:31):
he is back with a new book and another devastating
and yet riveting story about the death of a nineteen
year old in London and his connection to Russian oligarchs
and London gangs. It's called London's Calling and Patrick rad
and Keith is with me next. And a little bit
of Chafu to see us out in New Zealand's music month.
This seeks his second call up to the New Zealand

(38:53):
Music Hall of Fame BAC.

Speaker 8 (38:55):
Shortly with the.

Speaker 10 (38:56):
Plastic sheets, Marge.

Speaker 14 (39:02):
Smells swartzis fund with fuck Christmas puts.

Speaker 2 (39:07):
The likes of one Wednesday.

Speaker 1 (39:09):
Upon Sunday, Welcome to the Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin
and Wiggles for the best selection of great reeds used carseb.

Speaker 3 (39:26):
As a Sunday session on Francisco brud Can with you
until midday. Good to have you with us. Thank you
very much for your text. So we're talking to Erica
Stanford before the news. Francesca, I'm a secondary mass teacher
and haven't been able to get a job for the
past eighteen months. And other text reads thank god for
Erica Stanford, thank god for the National government a now
that not enough help into the mid level students who
could be high fliers with a bit more help. Erica

(39:49):
is full of bs. She is so not in touch
with the education sector. Another one reads Steve McCrackan started
by saying that NCAA was already working well providing choice.
In the twenty years plus of NCAA gave students a
good education. The current Minister had narrowed the number of
subjects available to students. Yeah, Nadella, That's why it was
asking that question, you know, is this do you think
this curriculum will excite students? You might have a young

(40:11):
student in your house. I'd love to hear what they
think about the lineup for them, and Mars text to say,
is this by partisan? And actually, Mrs I apologize. This
was the next question on my list, but we ran
out of time, unfortunately, And the question I was going
to ask is you know, what is the timeline to
get this kind of wrapped up? You're aiming to have
it all sorted and locked in before the election, because
of course, look, I love Erica's passion for this, I

(40:34):
love all the hard work she's doing. I'm very excited
that we're going to raise the standard. But I hate
that all this work had been done only for changing
the election to mean that this all gets sort of
thrown out the door. And that's what Mars is asking,
last thing we need is labor changing again when they
eventually get in. There was a question mark at the
end of that text. Thank you very much, Muz. The

(40:57):
Sunday Session Award winning journalist Patrick rad and Keith is
the master of taking complex true crime stories, mysterious deaths,
greedy for these, or shadowy underworlds and bringing them to
light through gripping storytelling. Patrick has written six books, all
best sellers. You may be familiar with his previous books
like Empire of Pain and Say Nothing. His latest book

(41:18):
is London Falling, a story of a London teenager, Zach Brenchler,
who mysteriously fell to his death in twenty nineteen. While
trying to understand their son's death, Zach's parents undercover a
fantasy life in which Zach had been posing as a
wealthy Russian oligarch. It's another incredible read from Patrick. I
couldn't put it down. He's in the country this week
for the Auckland Writers' Festival. I'm thrilled to finally have

(41:38):
him back on the show. Patrick Read and Keith good morning.

Speaker 16 (41:42):
I'm so delighted to be with you.

Speaker 3 (41:43):
Can I start with your career because I first spoke
to you our for Empire of Pain. You now have
six books, all hugely successful. How do you keep finding
these great stories to write about?

Speaker 4 (41:55):
Well?

Speaker 16 (41:55):
I try and just go out and kind of remain curious.
I feel with every passing year more strongly that you're
not going to find the best story ideas on the internet,
So you have to kind of get your nose out
of your phone and start conversations with strangers. Which is
where this article actually or this you know, what started
as an article and then became this book actually came from.
Is I just got to chatting with a total stranger

(42:17):
and he told me this story.

Speaker 3 (42:19):
Is there anything you won't write about, any ideas or
opportunities that have come your way that you've turned down.

Speaker 16 (42:26):
I haven't covered a war, you know, I have small children,
and even though there is sometimes you know, some degree
of nefarious, with some nefariousness with some of the characters
that I interact with in my stories, I haven't gone
to a war zone. And that's a thing that I,
you know, at least at this juncture in my life,
I don't know I would do.

Speaker 3 (42:46):
Nefarious is a good word. I mean, is there a
certain amount of danger digging up some of these stories.
I know that you've had legal threats in the like,
how do you deal with that?

Speaker 16 (42:56):
Yeah, it's funny, you know, I've spent years writing about
gangsters and drug lords and all of these underworld types.
But the only people who ever actually threaten me are
the rich people. It's the billionaires who hired their lawyers
and their pr people to.

Speaker 2 (43:09):
Come after you.

Speaker 4 (43:11):
You know.

Speaker 16 (43:11):
For this book, for London Falling, I got to know
a guy named Andy Baker, who was a long time
English gangster who was briefly out of prison and is
now back in prison. But I think with relationships like that,
you know, I try and be as transparent as possible,
and I try and make sure that I'm careful obviously,
and generally things are okay. One advantage I have is

(43:32):
that I can leave, so when I think about my book,
for instance, about the Troubles say nothing. If I lived
in West Belfast and my wife worked there and my
kids went to school there, it would have been harder
for me to write that book the way that I did.
I had a passport, I could always leave at the
end of the day, and that's often been the case
across the stories that I've written in my career.

Speaker 3 (43:51):
Interested that you brought up Andy Baker, because when you
did meet him, he did make it very clear in
a non threatening way, that he knew the name of
your children and your wife and things like that. Didn't
he he did.

Speaker 16 (44:02):
And I don't even know that I would call it
necessarily non threatening. It wasn't explicitly threatening. This is the
way that these guys work is that he kind of
shook my hand. He got right into my personal space,
you know, a lot of unbroken eye contact, and with
a big smile on his face, he asked after my
wife and kids by name, and I hadn't told him
their names. And that's sort of the way these folks operate,

(44:22):
is that Andy was telling me, you know, I know
you have a vulnerability.

Speaker 2 (44:25):
I know you have a family.

Speaker 16 (44:27):
I should say, though, as I get into in the book,
Andy also has a family. He has children, you know,
he has parents. And I try and sort of situate
even the more colorful, disreputable characters within the frameworks that
they come from. You know that we all exist in
this matrix of family and relationships.

Speaker 3 (44:45):
Ah, you absolutely find the human and them. Tell me
about zech.

Speaker 16 (44:49):
So Zach Bretler was a boy who was born in
the year two thousand in London, and he was a
really fun little kid.

Speaker 2 (44:56):
He was.

Speaker 16 (44:58):
Kind of quick witted, he was unpredictable, he was a
little zingy. He would sort of do jokes and accents
and imitations. And as he got older, he grew up
in a loving, i would say, upper middle class family
in central London. As he got older, he became really
taken with the culture of wealth in London, really obsessed

(45:19):
with supercars and luxury real estate and the kind of blingy, gaudy,
excessive wealth that had come to characterize the city during
his lifetime. And slowly he started to graduate from being
kind of a fun conversationalist to somebody who told lies.
He became a bit of a fabulous and so initially

(45:41):
he would tell kids in his school that his family
is very wealthy, that they had bought a mansion, that
they drove a pair of range Rovers, And then in
time he started to actually invent a whole new alter
ego and he claimed that he was the son of
a very wealthy Russian oligarch.

Speaker 3 (45:59):
His parents had no idea about this life that he
had created. After he died, they it's revealed to them.
Could they make sense of it?

Speaker 16 (46:10):
Patruck No, I mean, part of what I was trying
to do with this book was look at the way
in which any of us as parents, when we're parenting
an adolescent and I would say, you know, perhaps, particularly
these days when everybody's on their phones, you know, the
child that we thought we knew can start to become

(46:31):
somebody unrecognizable. And the Bretlers, Matthew and Rochelle are their names.
They were aware that Zach was changing in adolescence and
that he was sort of rejecting the kind of conventional
middle class values that they had and really becoming enamored
with these sort of gangster capitalist type folks in the culture.
But they had no inkling that he was going around

(46:53):
with a completely invented alter ego, pretending that he was
the son of a Russian oligarch. So all of this
came at them very quickly in the aftermath of his death,
and a lot of what the book is about is
these parents having to kind of home detectives after their
son's death. You know, that they loved their son and
they're devastated by the loss of him, but they needed
to figure out a how did he die? How did

(47:15):
this actually happen? But kind of more importantly and on
a deeper level, be who was he really in life?
You know, was there a side of him that they
had never understood when he was living under their.

Speaker 3 (47:26):
Roof, because one of the things that's going on in
the back of your mind when you're reading this book
is what drives a young man to create a whole
new persona to lie to such an extreme.

Speaker 16 (47:36):
Yeah, I mean, I'm happy to hear you say that,
because the other aspect of this for me was, you know,
this is in part a story about London. London is
itself kind of a character in this book. And one
of the questions for me, you know, I lived in
London in the year two thousand and two thousand and one.
I lived there so quarter of a century ago. This
was the city that I thought I knew quite well.

(47:56):
The question for me was, what is it about London
to that would make it the kind of place where
a teenage kid with you know, really any opportunity he
would like ahead of him. This is who could have
done anything, He had lots of opportunities. What is it
about London that would make him aspire to be the
son of a Russian oligarch?

Speaker 3 (48:15):
Tell us a little bit about the London that you
sort of delve into. It's more really its recent history,
isn't it the demise of manufacturing in the docks and
the rise of the financial sector, the fact that London
was very happy to welcome and accommodate Russians and their money.
It's sort of a whole new world, isn't it.

Speaker 16 (48:33):
It is, yeah, I mean it's interesting. You know, if
you were to go to London and say nineteen fifty,
it pretty much resembled the city that you would read
about in Charles Dickens.

Speaker 4 (48:42):
Right.

Speaker 16 (48:42):
It was a big port city. It was one of
the most important shipping cities in the world. It was
this kind of you know, still a sort of imperial
city in a way, and it was a manufacturing city.
It was a city where things were made. And then
in the space of about twenty five years, all the
docks in London closed. So this whole industry that has
sustained really the kind of eastern half of the city

(49:03):
for centuries, just vanished practically overnight, and eighty percent of
the manufacturing jobs disappeared, and so London was left with
a bit of an identity crisis. It had to sort
of decide, you know, what kind of a city are
we going to be now? And really with the arrival
of Margaret Thatcher, you start to see London transform as
a destination for money and people who had it, kind

(49:25):
of a commodious second home for the global plutocracy.

Speaker 3 (49:30):
And so obviously Zach was kind of exposed to this.
To the Russian oligax as they arrived in London to
inspire him, I presume to come up with this other PERSONA.

Speaker 16 (49:42):
Yeah, exactly. So Zach, at the age of thirteen, ends
up at this school called mill Hill, which is on
the northern outskirts of London. His big brother had gotten
into a school called University College School, which is a
very elite, academically rigorous private school in London, and Zach
had always expected that he would go too. But when
he applied, he didn't get in. He was rejected, and

(50:04):
he took this rejection really hard. He applied again and
again was rejected, and so he ends up at this
school called mill Hill. Now mill Hill was a very expensive,
fee paying school, but it wasn't as selective academically, and
when Zach arrived there, he found that he was surrounded
by the children of oligarchs. By this next generation of

(50:26):
just supremely wealthy Londoners whose parents were foreign plutocrats who
had made a second home in London, wanted to send
their kids to posh English schools, and so Zach, at
a young age, you know, as an adolescent, is suddenly
exposed to these kids who have a kind of swagger.
You know, they sort of carry themselves in a very

(50:48):
sort of preening, macho way. On the weekends, they party
in expensive hotels. They dress in designer clothes to go
to class. There's a story I tell in the book
about how the dormitories at the school were an eight
minute walk from the classrooms, and on cold days, these
kids would summon ubers to take them from the dorm

(51:10):
to class rather than walk. And so Zach is exposed
to these kids, and he really becomes kind of enthrall
to them. You know, he becomes obsessed with wealth. And
I should say he was a creature of Instagram, of
social media. And we've all had that experience of being
on our phones or on an iPad and you hesitate
for just a moment with your finger as you're scrolling

(51:31):
through something, and the algorithm figures out that you have
an interest and it starts to serve you more. And
so as Zach became interested in supercars and luxury apartments
and mansions, he started seeing more and more of that online,
and he kind of went deeper into his own preoccupations.

Speaker 3 (51:47):
Patrick, I don't want to give away too much of
how the story unfolds, because every chapter is like, where
are you taking us?

Speaker 2 (51:53):
Now?

Speaker 3 (51:53):
It's an incredible story, But one thing that baffled me,
and I know that I'm pretty sure that it Befel's
experience Rachel Michelle as well, was Zach wasn't just hanging
around with young local thugs his own age. He found
himself in a very adult world with very dangerous adults,

(52:13):
and you start to sort of I mean, there's just
so many questions that arise as to how he ended
up there and how he managed to kind of pull
things off to the extent he did.

Speaker 16 (52:24):
Yeah, you know, it was a fascinating thing that happened
where Zach was very taken with a certain kind of
hustle culture, and I think that in some respects this
would be familiar to people in New Zealand as it
is in London or New York or anywhere else where.
The culture now kind of writ large, I think, is
very very taken with kind of capitalistic success stories, these

(52:49):
sort of big swaggering personas I remember a point where
I have two sons, and my younger boy was six
years old, and he came home from school one day
and he was talking about Elon Musk, and I thought,
how do you even know who that is? You know,
what is it about the culture? Now, that would mean
that a six year old had any idea of who
that is. But Zach grew up in that culture and

(53:11):
wanting to kind of hustle and make it big, and
make it big quickly. And in his new guys. As
the son of an oligarch, he was introduced to these
older men, men who seemed to him to have everything
that he wanted, these kind of glamorous playboy businessmen in London. Now,
there were a few things going on here. One was

(53:32):
that these men believed that Zach had access to hundreds
of millions of pounds to invest. So you can kind
of pretty quickly figure out what these men in their
forties and fifties saw in him. They thought that there
was a prize for them in it. But what he
didn't realize is that he was not the only impostor here.
That some of these guys were pretending to be something

(53:53):
that they weren't. So There's one big figure in the book,
a man named Akhbar Shamji who seems like a kind
of jet setting, high flying businessman. And little does Zach
know that shortly before they met, ak Barshamji had actually
declared bankruptcy. And ak Barshamji then declare introduces Zach to
a friend of his who is named Vernda Sharma, and

(54:16):
he seems like a kind of a vuncular, retired businessman,
kind of living out his days in a luxury apartment
overlooking the Thames. But Verrender Sharma, it turns out, was
a gangster, a leg breaker, better known in the London
underworld by the nickname Indian Dave. And so bizarrely, this
is a story not just of one person pretending to

(54:37):
be someone he's not, but of three different people, each
pretending to each other.

Speaker 3 (54:42):
All of your books, Patrick, in depth investigative pieces. You
spend a lot of time with the story and the
people in them. Do these stories and the people do
they stay with you or are you able to sort
of leave them behind once you've completed a book, they.

Speaker 2 (54:58):
Do linger with me?

Speaker 16 (54:59):
I mean, I think there's no way, there's no way
for them not to.

Speaker 2 (55:03):
In this case, it was a.

Speaker 16 (55:06):
Particularly tricky one in the sense that I was writing
about a family, you know, in which there were these
two sons who were quite competitive, and then one of
those sons died in adolescence. And I have two sons
of my own who were close in age and also
quite competitive with one another, and also going through adolescence.
And I think, if anything, that gave me more compassion

(55:28):
for Matthew and Rachelle. It meant that I was able
to really kind of see and resonate with the predicament
that they experienced and try and capture that on the
page for readers. But I should also say that, you know,
it's funny we're so used to hearing about the decline
of the written word and the contraction of the news industry,
but I think it's important for those of us who

(55:50):
do this work to remember that there is still a
power in journalism, and with that power comes a certain responsibility.
And so in this case, I was writing about the
private trauma of a family, and that is an undertaking
and responsibility that I take really seriously. And so what
that meant is I have a duty of care to

(56:12):
this family. You know, of course, I have journalistic objectivity
I have written the book in a kind of scrupulously
factual way, and I should say there are things in
the book, family secrets and so forth that the Butlers
were somewhat uncomfortable with. But I've also felt that it
was important for me to look out for them to
know that it is a lot of trust they've placed
in me in kind of entrusting this very private personal

(56:33):
story for me to capture in the pages of this book.
And so that too, is an ongoing relationship.

Speaker 1 (56:39):
You know.

Speaker 16 (56:39):
I've been texting with Rachelle Butler this morning even as
I'm here in New Zealand, because it's a strange experience
for them to see the book out and in bookshops,
to see strangers reading it, and so I want to
kind of stay close to them and make sure that
they're all right.

Speaker 3 (56:54):
Well, I very much appreciate them sharing the story with you,
and you did an excellent job on the book, Patrick
Read and Keith, it's been a delight to talk to you.
Thank you so much.

Speaker 2 (57:02):
Oh, thank you.

Speaker 3 (57:03):
That was an investigative journalist and best selling all Patrick
rad and Keith. The book we were talking about is
London Falling. It's in stalls now, we have two copies
of the book to give away. All you have to
do is text your name address and the answer to
this question to ninety two ninety two. What is the
name of the teenager London Falling is based on? So

(57:23):
answer that question text your name address answer to ninety
two ninety two. It is twenty five past ten.

Speaker 1 (57:31):
Sunday with Style the Sunday Session with Francesca Rudkin and
Wiggles for the best selection of Greg Reathlease Talk Savy.

Speaker 3 (57:40):
The wickles a Top one hundred has become a local legend,
with readers invited every year to vote for their three
favorite books. Voting is now open for the twenty twenty
six list and all listeners are warmly invited to contribute.
You can do this by going into a wit Calls
store or place your votes online, which you can do
by going to Wickles dot co dot nz. The twenty

(58:01):
twenty six Wikkels Top one hundred will be announced at
the end of July, with is bound to be a
terrific new of great books to help you find your
next best read. Thousands of listeners find the Top one
hundred a great way to discover new books and authors,
Whilst also checking off many of the classics which are
still beloved by many voters. With books, games, toys, puzzles,
great gifts, gorgeous stationary greeting cards and the Wickles Top

(58:23):
one hundred to vote for. There really is something for
everyone at Wickles.

Speaker 2 (58:28):
The Sunday session No No So.

Speaker 3 (58:38):
First concert at the christ Church Stadium last night?

Speaker 17 (58:41):
How was it?

Speaker 3 (58:42):
Would like to hear from you? Of course it was
quite an effort to, you know, convert the sports stadium
into a concert arena. We've heard a lot about how
great it is to watch a sports game there, but
is it a fantastic place to watch the concerts?

Speaker 2 (58:57):
Of course?

Speaker 3 (58:57):
Last night six sixty headlined the concert Were you there?
Was it fantastic? Ninety two ninety two is the text number?
Please let us know. It is Times Talking Entertainment now
and Steve Neil joins us, good morning.

Speaker 13 (59:10):
Good morning, and happy New Zealand music and to you too.
Also know if anyone wants to fly us down to
christ Church to.

Speaker 3 (59:17):
Check out the stadium and be happy, it would be.

Speaker 13 (59:20):
I mean, my eyes, my ears are open to check
it out.

Speaker 3 (59:24):
I could I could, you know, if I have to,
I could set the front row or I could you know,
have a perfect prime position, maybe just at the back
looking straight at the stadium and just next for America,
next to World, next to sound dis is you should.

Speaker 13 (59:36):
Thanks and advance? Okay, yes, but yes it's New Zealand
Music Month, roaring along at full steam. I can't get
elders Harding's new album Train on the Island off heavy
rotation in my household, but looking forward to what else
is happening for the rest of May. The big news
this week was that Shane ness A ka Chaffu is
going to be inducted into Tafar Togu, the New Zealand

(01:00:00):
Music Hall of Fame for the second time. So first
his work as part of Super Groove was recognized, but
this I think, as you know, there's shows impact and
contribution to Alto music culture is far more than Super Groove,
chains albums to be specific, and the Navigator. There's a
huge landmark records Navigators, I think four times platinums, huge

(01:00:22):
selling records and also a real kind of gateway period
which opened up sort of opened the floodgates to the
New Zealand hip hop renaissance that was to come in
the early two thousands.

Speaker 3 (01:00:33):
We played a little bit of Chanine. We're gonna had
time to pay a time a little bit before news
and sport and got it just took me back to
a time in an error and how dominant he was, Yeah, and.

Speaker 13 (01:00:42):
Really infused these different sounds, like it's the sound of Grayln, Auckland,
you know, I think Chaffo really like hugely. There's just
all these different things feeding in, you know, the history
of the Polynesian Panthers to regator hip hop. So just
it's music of a time, a place in the collection
of influences. It's uniquely Auckland, uniquely New Zealand.

Speaker 3 (01:01:03):
Yeah, I have vision. I can remember going and interviewing
him in his studio in Grayland, absolutely right.

Speaker 13 (01:01:08):
So that's gonna be awesome. That's taking place on the
twenty eighth of May at Auckland Civic at the AMA Awards.
Marlon Williams and Tom Scott lead the Nums have got
seven nominations each. I can catch each of them live.
So Marlon is at himself at the Civic Theater for
a couple of shows this week, then Wellington, Nelson and
christ Church before taking a bit of a hiatus from performance.

(01:01:31):
And Tom Scott as a present with his hip hop
group Homebrew at the Oakland Town Hall on May thirty one.
Marlon and Tom are joined in the sort of top
nominations list by Lord and Tammy Neilson, nominated for four
categories each and they're all up for Album of the
Year alongside Geneva Am Kayley, Bow Lady Six, Mocham, Mokeye,
Rep Fountain, The Beths and Troy King.

Speaker 3 (01:01:53):
Have you got an inkling? Who might take that out
best Album?

Speaker 13 (01:01:56):
I mean it's the feels Like It's the Marlin Sweet
right Like, It's such an incredible album. And just the
fact that he keeps winning awards doesn't mean that he
shouldn't be considered for winning more awards. Cely on a
slightly different note, well, it's part music, I guess. Tonight
in Wellington at the Opera House is the Pornicky House Party.
This is a sort of collaborative event by the New

(01:02:18):
Zealand International International Comedy Festival in New Zealand Music Month,
a night have described as a massive night of jokes,
songs and special surprise guests. It's headlined by Toughing for
PULII and Tammy Neilson and yet it's just a mix
of comedy and music performance that's designed to be a
really great show but also raise money for the meryor
Relief Fund to support those affected by the recent flooding.

Speaker 3 (01:02:41):
There's no reason why we can't get out in all
joy a bit of live music this month, right, totally,
and like.

Speaker 13 (01:02:46):
If you've got you know, if you've got some comedy alongside,
it's kind of an excuse, right, I mean some of
it is, like music's pretty comedy and Jason Rody, I
see Sam Flyin Scott and Luke Ba from the Phoenix
Foundation of playing on the show. They're pretty funny guys.
We're right in the middle there and I can't I
can't skip over this. Even though it's not New Zealand music.
Iconic bands Sparks, after nearly six decades, are finally coming

(01:03:09):
to alter Of for live shows next week. You might
have seen Edgar Writes to twenty twenty one documentary with
the Sparks Brothers. You might know this song's number one
song in Heaven or this talent big enough for the
both of us truly are iconoclastic and unique brothers playing
Crushach Town Hall on May twenty one, and Auckland on
May twenty three.

Speaker 3 (01:03:27):
Steve, thank you so much, appreciate it, and there we'll
keep you up to date with what's happening with Eurovision.
There is no winner emerge Esse yet. They're about halfway
through sorting out all the folks. It's gonna take forever.
It's going to jake us all morning, I think, folks.
It is twenty six to eleven.

Speaker 1 (01:03:46):
It's the Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin.

Speaker 2 (01:03:50):
On News Talks B.

Speaker 3 (01:03:52):
Doctor Michelle Didkinson joins me now with her science study
of the week, and we're going to talk crabs today.

Speaker 18 (01:03:58):
Are taking crabs not some thing I think about very often.
When I saw this study, I was like, you're right,
nothing else does this. So the question is why do
crabs walk sideways?

Speaker 3 (01:04:10):
I thought about it and I'm like, actually, nothing else.
They just that all over the place, don't they?

Speaker 7 (01:04:14):
They do?

Speaker 18 (01:04:15):
And I'd never thought that nothing else on the planet
moves like a crab. Published in the journal eLife, you
can find it online, and scientists basically were like looking
at crabs and they went, if you have ever watched
a crab dart across the beach, you've noticed that they
probably never walk forwards. They always dart, like you said, sideways,

(01:04:35):
and they don't really even dart. They scuttle, right, So
they're very crab crab word scuttle, but that's really fast
and they have great agility. And so what they understood is, well,
why do they do it? And why does nothing else
walk around like this? And they went through this whole
bunch of studies and DNA and looking at evolution, and

(01:04:56):
they basically reckoned that. Oh yeah, the eyes on the
PLoP of the head. I've thought the same thing too, Yeah, that.

Speaker 3 (01:05:00):
Was my media thought. I've always looked at them and gone,
it's got to be with their eyes a place.

Speaker 19 (01:05:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 18 (01:05:05):
Well, what they found is that actually it's probably something
that's evolved only once in the history of true crabs,
which is unusual because usually in evolution you get these
useful traits and they appear over all sorts of creatures.
So if you think about birds, for example, wings have
evolved in birds, but also in bats and also in

(01:05:26):
insects like butterflies. Right, so something commits streamlined body shapes
for example. So dolphins and sharks have evolved that type
of streamline body shape, but they're very different creatures. But
sideways walking has only happened with the crab, and it
looks like it's only happened. It's been invented once and
then crabs just stuck with it. So they studied how

(01:05:48):
fifty different crab species moved. They filmed them individually. They
had these specially designed cooled crab arenas that mimic their
natural environments, and when they map those movements onto the
crab family tree, they found that all of these modern
crabs have inherited their sideways movement from just one ancient ancestor.
So basically they think it's a survival superpower. One ancestor

(01:06:12):
did it, and all of those ancestors lived and it stuck.
And look, crabs are weird, right. They have these wide,
flattened bodies and these legs that really extend quite far outwards.
So if you think about it, moving sideways really helps
them to move faster and more efficiency efficiently without having
to twist their bodies, which makes sense. But also they

(01:06:33):
think that moving sideways and being able to dart left
or right quickly is really unpredictable, and that is good,
and that's what I don't like about them totally. Yeah,
but also, if you're a predator, you can't figure out
where it's going to go. If you're a crab, you're
more likely to survival, and then that gets passed down
over all the words that survived. So yeah, and what
I didn't realize is there are almost eight thousand known

(01:06:54):
species of crabs living environments and they range from deep oceans, rivers, forests,
and even land. And they think because of this, this
is why crabs can live in such wide ranges of areas,
because they've actually been able to adapt and survive because
there's this weirdness about them, this sideways thing over many
different species, which just allows them to go over many

(01:07:15):
different areas. So the next time you look at a crab,
basically you might go, that's quirky. But this study is
basically one of the most important movement innovations in marine evolution,
and only one thing has figured it out, and that's
the grab.

Speaker 3 (01:07:30):
Isn't it interesting though? That now why the animals has
seen the value in the sideways walking.

Speaker 18 (01:07:36):
Yeah, and you know it's not really value to you
look at this study and go, oh, it makes sense now,
because I do look at them and go you're just
a little bit like.

Speaker 3 (01:07:42):
You're all over the place. I hear a hot mess.

Speaker 18 (01:07:44):
Ye, that hot mess has meant they survived all of
this time and it makes perfect scenes.

Speaker 3 (01:07:50):
Thank you so much, Michelle, appreciate it.

Speaker 1 (01:07:53):
The Sunday Session Full Show podcast on iHeartRadio powered by News.

Speaker 2 (01:07:58):
Talks it be.

Speaker 3 (01:08:00):
It is time now for our resident Chief Mike. Then
to Allison, good morning, Good morning. I was wondering if
I could quickly start with a text from a listener.
They said, I'm wanting to make my very first Keche
was wondering, when you talk to the wonderful mic can
you ask what is the correct pastry to use.

Speaker 20 (01:08:17):
If it's a sweet kesh, then you go sweet short.
If it's a savory giche, like an egg giche, then
you go savory short, so sweet, savory sweet short, Yeah sweet,
you go sweet short, savory, go savory short, so short
crust pastry. But the key is to a roll it

(01:08:40):
out nice and thin. And what we need to do
is we need to blind bake it. So line your
grease or your your flantern or your gicheton, lay your
pastry and put some paper on top, put some beads.

Speaker 4 (01:08:52):
In there, or some rice.

Speaker 20 (01:08:53):
Something that could just weight it down and then bake
it on one eighty for about twenty minutes and then
remove the paper, put it back in for about another
five minutes. That makes it nice and crispy, nice and crunchy.
And then you put in your egg mix and baked
that brilliant.

Speaker 3 (01:09:07):
Thank you very much, Mike, Good luck, Donna. Okay, let's
talk about carried pumpkin and coconut soup.

Speaker 20 (01:09:13):
It is the most underwhelming yet delicious soup you have
ever had. Honestly, it is amazing.

Speaker 3 (01:09:23):
Why do you call it underwhelming?

Speaker 20 (01:09:25):
Well, sometimes people think of pumpkin has been underwhelming.

Speaker 3 (01:09:28):
Pumpkin owners, but this one's curried and it's got.

Speaker 20 (01:09:32):
And it makes it delicious.

Speaker 3 (01:09:35):
Talk us through it.

Speaker 20 (01:09:36):
Okay, So we've got our own pumpkins at the moment,
so that's why this is going on. So we have
pumpkins coming out of our ying ying. So I'm using
for this, I'm using a crown pumpkin. So a medium
sized pumpkin. You want to peel it and cut into
quarters and then deceed it into a pot, a large pot.
This is going to make well, one pumpkin's probably gonna
make you probably a good maybe three leaders of soup.

(01:09:59):
Great for the kids lunchboxes tomorrow morning. Heat up a
large pot and in a couple of tabspoons of some
flour oil. And then you want to saute off two
white onions that are being builed and sliced, and a
fair amount of.

Speaker 4 (01:10:12):
Garlic for this.

Speaker 20 (01:10:12):
So I've got ten clothes of garlic, add add and
saute those off for a couple of minutes until they
start too sweet. And then we want to add in
our spice. We're adding our spice now before we add
the pumpkin. Tablespoon of garamasala, tablespoon of ground corianda, tablespoon
of ground coomen, teaspoon of turmeric. Add all those off

(01:10:33):
and sautee them off until they become fragrant. You'll start
to smell all those beautiful aromas coming out when that
happens and goes the pumpkin. Give the pumpkin a good
coating and those spices, and then I've got a leaf
and a half vegetable stock, and one can or four
hundred mills of coconut cream. Add add in a good
amount of salt, bring it up to the wall, turn

(01:10:54):
it down, simmer it until your pumpkin is nice and tender.
It's going to reduce down a little bit. I'm not
too worried about that. But if you feel it's reducing
down too quickly turn it down or add.

Speaker 12 (01:11:04):
A little bit more vegetable stock.

Speaker 20 (01:11:06):
After the time, take a blender. You can use a
stick blender or you can use a food processor. Blend
your soup very carefully. Pumpkin soup is very dangerous and
it's very hot. Blend it whilst adding a cup of
cream and one hundred grams of unsalted butter. Check your
season after that point. What the butter does makes it delicious.
What the cream does, it makes it delicious and you

(01:11:29):
can serve it straight away.

Speaker 3 (01:11:31):
Sounds wonderful. Thank you very much, Thank you very very much.
So if you'd like the recipe for the curried pumpkin
and coconut soup, all you have to do is go
to Good from Scratch dot co dot nz or head
to news talk zb dot co dot nz. Forward slash Sunday.
You'll be able to hear all our interviews throughout the
morning there on the website. Up next, Erin is here

(01:11:55):
to talk about peptides. It is twelve to eleven.

Speaker 2 (01:11:58):
Leave.

Speaker 1 (01:11:58):
It's simple, it's Sunday, the Sunday session with Francesca, Rudca
and Wiggles for the best selection of gravery talks.

Speaker 3 (01:12:06):
Be okay, So the jury voters in on Eurovision. Bulgaria
is leading the leaderboard, Australia is second, come on Delta,
den Mark, Franz Finland. So that's the top five. But
they've got to wait now for the public vote. Honestly,
this is the most drawn out process. So they're waiting
now for the public vote. So there is a possibility
that Delta could still take it out. Would be very exciting.

(01:12:27):
Aaron O'Hara is with me now to talk wellness, good morning,
good morning. You're gonna talk about peptides today, and we're
hearing a lot about peptides. I mean, they've been kind
of around for a while, but they've become very trendy.
Maybe you can talk us through what they actually are.

Speaker 7 (01:12:41):
Yeah, they've been really trendy probably the last three years.
I'd say more and more people ask me about them
and they think that I'm going to have a whole
lot of them and my dispensary my clinic, which I
do not, because peptides are something that are very actually
new research or no research, and there's a lot of
controversy around peptides. Now, some of the peptides have a

(01:13:02):
lot of clinical research, like your weight loss drugs like
a see mcglue tie, which is your things like we're
go there. And there's a lot of other peptides out there,
like your BPC one five seven, which is all through
social media around injury healing, that actually doesn't have a
lot of significance clinical research. And I think the biggest

(01:13:24):
problem that I will see is that people come to
me and they're like, oh, I've checked GP ted it
and it said this, And I'm like, what kind of
research is actually backing it up? And that's where sometimes
your AI research tool can pull up lots of mice
studies or rat studies or even studies of one person. Right,
So a peptide can be consumed, it can be topical,

(01:13:46):
it can be in a skincare, it could be injected,
it's used in different it comes in different sort of Yeah,
So pep slides are actually naturally occurring, and we do
eat peptides, so they actually come in our foods toots.
Whenever you're eating protein, you're actually getting amino acids. And
aminio acids are part of the building blocks of peptides,
and peptides are short chains of amino acids. So for instance,

(01:14:11):
insulin is a fifty one amino acid long peptide hormone,
So there's lots of naturally occurring ones in the body.
The main difference is peptides are shorter string chains and
protein are bigger globules of molecules that are binded together. Now,
peptides have an amazing action in the body. They're really
the building blocks of the body, and that's where these

(01:14:33):
peptides kind of supplements or injectables are used around signaling
molecules in particular things like tissue repair, immune response, metabolism,
and that's where people are really looking for getting the
benefits for really long deevity to things like skin health,
muscle growth, weight loss, inflammation management, that kind of thing.

(01:14:54):
And the reason they've become really controversial is that a
lot of them haven't got the clinical research to back
them up. Some of them are made in non FDA
approved lab So what are you buying online? Is The
question that I always have is that how well are
they going to work? What sort of contaminants And then
particularly if you are self injecting these sorts of things,

(01:15:17):
in which a lot of people are doing is they're
buying them online, getting them shipped to their house, and
then injecting all sorts of things into themselves. Obviously, it
comes with massive rest factor when you're kind of doing
this yourself. Very different to medically regulated peptides, so things
like people using the GLP one type pep tides where

(01:15:39):
they've got a clinician monitoring them, they're getting checkups, they're
doing it in a safe way, and also has FDA
approval as well that it's.

Speaker 3 (01:15:47):
Had a lot of clcs. How they're easy to get
your hands on.

Speaker 7 (01:15:51):
Yeah, online the online you can buy pretty much anything
shipped from overseas, shipped from overseas generally, and that's where
people go, oh, look for like a proper sort of
good source. But it's actually like, well, what are you
really buying? And I think the other risk factor that
I have around these is that if you're improving cellular function,

(01:16:11):
you're also improving cellular function. For even if you have
a small tumor could become a big tumor if you're
up regulating cellular function. So that's where there's that risk
factor there, and also how do they all work in together,
because a common one that's used in particularly Joe Rogan
was promoting was using a combination known as the Wolverine

(01:16:32):
stack around inflammation management. And it's like, well, yes, they
can be used together, but what sort of long term
effect of these things are going to have because the
clinical research is still in the development phase. So maybe
these are all going to be big things for management
of inflammation and helping to longevity, but right now I think.

Speaker 3 (01:16:52):
My the moment, be cautious, do your research. I also
know what you're taking fascinating. Thank you so much.

Speaker 1 (01:16:59):
Erin the Sunday Session Full Show podcast on iHeartRadio Empowered.

Speaker 3 (01:17:05):
By News, Tommy emmanuelis in the country bringing his world
class acoustic guitar skills to Auckland, Hamilton, Palmerston, North Wellington
and christ Church. Tommy has spent his life traveling in
the world. He's worked with all the big bands, all
the big names, and he is one of only five
ever chet Aikins certified guitar players. And we're gonna find

(01:17:27):
out how significant that is. Next Tommy emmanuelism and for
a chat, and we're really hoping he's got his guitar.
Rut We're really hoping he's gonna play live for us.
That's next year on Newstorg zibb.

Speaker 10 (01:17:57):
Move streaming.

Speaker 3 (01:18:01):
This high Splited.

Speaker 10 (01:18:08):
The Boy.

Speaker 2 (01:18:11):
It's Sunday. You know what that means.

Speaker 1 (01:18:13):
It's the Sunday Session with Francesca Rutkin and Wickles for
the best Election of Grape Reads Us talks be.

Speaker 3 (01:18:27):
It is seven past eleven. You're with a Sunday session.
Love you to have you with us coming up this hour.
You know how hard it can be to secure a
sunlounger you're on holiday. It can be very frustrating, can't it.
But one tourist has gone to extreme links and suit
his tour operator over it. Meghan Singleton is going to
talk us through how that played out and how it
has forced a crack down on sun loungers rules and
hotels and resorts. Joan has the latest from Irish Australian

(01:18:49):
thriller writer Dervlight mcturner and Piney's in Brisbane for the
NRL Magic Round. Will chat NRL and see how Piney's
feeling about New Zealand hosting the A League Grand Final
next Saturday.

Speaker 2 (01:19:01):
The Sunday Session.

Speaker 3 (01:19:04):
Tommy Emmanuel is a livingly of the acoustic guitar world.
Throughout his career, he's performed with bands like Air Supply
and Minute Work, headlined tours around the globe, and toured
with Eric Clapton and John Denver. His collaborations include work
with the guitar greats Mark Knopfler, Joe Walsh, and Les Paul.
Among his many career awards, he's won a Grammy Award
for Best Instrumental Arrangement and is one of only five

(01:19:26):
Everjet Aitkins certified guitar players. Tommy's Living and Light Tour
starts in Auckland at the Town Hall tonight and he
joins me in the studio. Tommy, it is lovely to
have you with me.

Speaker 12 (01:19:38):
That was quite a mouthful.

Speaker 3 (01:19:39):
It was, well, you've done quite a lot, so I
know that's the thing. It's kind of like, Okay, who
do you pack to talk about? I mean, it is
quite the career that we have just briefly brushed over there.
But can I go back to the beginning. How old
were you when you picked up a guitar?

Speaker 12 (01:19:59):
I was four years old. My mother was already playing
and she got interested in Hawaiian music, and so she
was trying to work out how to play the slide
steel guitar and she needed a rhythm guide to.

Speaker 4 (01:20:16):
Go like.

Speaker 12 (01:20:19):
Righteous. Yeah, So she bought me a guitar for my
fourth birthday and showed me how to play chords. And
it wasn't long before we were we were playing together.
We were playing music together, and I had a kind
of basic understanding of how a song works. And you know,

(01:20:39):
she I still don't read music, and I've never had
any lessons. I'm completely self taught, and basically I'm guilty
of petty theft. I stole everything from everybody I possibly could.

Speaker 3 (01:20:51):
You know, that's really interesting because I winded after your
mum had taught you those cards, whether she just lift
you then to kind of work it out yourself.

Speaker 12 (01:20:57):
Well, I had brothers and sisters, so I was the youngest.
So my older brother Phil, who was nearly three years
older than me, he had such an incredible ear.

Speaker 19 (01:21:08):
You know.

Speaker 12 (01:21:09):
We would hear a song, you know, say White Rabbit
by Peter Poser, and he'd say, that's e to a
to eat it, and then he would work out the
melee and I would work out the chord sequence and
next thing we're playing the song.

Speaker 3 (01:21:25):
Are you born with that or can anybody get to
that point?

Speaker 12 (01:21:29):
Well, I think most of us just follow what comes
natural to us. You know, you can learn stuff. I mean,
how can somebody go to acting school and become as
good as Robert T. Niro. You can't.

Speaker 3 (01:21:45):
There's got to be something in there.

Speaker 12 (01:21:47):
Absolutely, things like that are a gift, and they're given
to us for a reason, for the benefit of everyone else.

Speaker 3 (01:21:54):
And I think you were about six when the family
sold the house and you become a traveling band, a
traveling family band.

Speaker 12 (01:22:00):
The Emanual Quartet hit the road, went broke pretty quickly, and.

Speaker 3 (01:22:06):
A sex year old didn't went over the ground.

Speaker 12 (01:22:08):
The crowd went mild. Now the audience leapt to its foot,
So that's what that's what it was like, you know.
But we did stuff like follow the show ground around
and play on the back of the truck and all
that sort of played ten times a day, and my
dad would take the hat around. But we were playing
music people liked, you know. And I'm really grateful today

(01:22:32):
that I was born when I was born and where
I was born, because it was a great era, the
sixties and the seventies and stuff. It was a great
era for music and melody and great records, you know,
and that kind of paved the way for me. It
gave me some experience and knowledge about how a song works,

(01:22:56):
how the melody works with the chords, and if you've
got a response from the people, then you knew that
they loved what you were doing, so I better do
more of that.

Speaker 3 (01:23:07):
So what were the songs that you were playing that
you would still give you joy to play?

Speaker 8 (01:23:12):
Now?

Speaker 2 (01:23:13):
Oh?

Speaker 12 (01:23:13):
Well, the very first song I heard Chad Atkins play.
Can I play a little bit of it?

Speaker 4 (01:23:19):
Yeah?

Speaker 12 (01:23:20):
It's called Windy and Warm?

Speaker 3 (01:23:32):
Right, So I heard that somewhere else When you play,
don't you? Hey, you just go somewhere else when you play.

Speaker 12 (01:23:37):
I go inside the guitar.

Speaker 17 (01:23:38):
Yeah you do.

Speaker 12 (01:23:39):
Yeah, you can see that.

Speaker 2 (01:23:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 12 (01:23:41):
So I was seven when I heard that, and I
could tell he was playing everything at once. He's playing
the left hand on the piano this week. Yeah, there's
the accompaniment with the thumb and then the fingers played
like a voice, right. And there are people here in

(01:24:05):
New Zealand who can do that and do it very well.
But he was one of your idols, and he became
my because my dad died when I was ten, and
Chet really became like a daddy to me later on
in my life and later on in his life.

Speaker 3 (01:24:24):
So being one of only five certified guitar players, what
does that mean? What's the significance.

Speaker 12 (01:24:30):
Well, it's basically on my award. It says for lifetime
contribution to the art of fingerpicking. That's all it says.
So it doesn't say anything else, you know. And so
you know, I feel it's my calling to play for
people because when I play, people get happy. So I

(01:24:52):
don't call it the music business. I call it the
happiness business. Right, So I play, you get happy, everyone's happy.
It's a good job. But what I really love doing
is teaching and handing on whatever it is, as I know,
to someone else who's smarter than me, you know, and
can do something else with it.

Speaker 3 (01:25:11):
And this is why you run these you run these
guitar camps. But you've been referred to as one of
the best guitarists in the world. And I did read that.
You actually don't really like that reference.

Speaker 16 (01:25:21):
Why not.

Speaker 3 (01:25:23):
You got a certificate to president?

Speaker 12 (01:25:25):
It doesn't matter. Now, I haven't got anything. All I've
got is what I've got right now, because I live
in today. You know, I take my life one day
at a time, and so today's a great day, the
sun shining. I've in one of the world's great cities,
in a great country, and I'm going to play music tonight.
It's exciting.

Speaker 3 (01:25:46):
What do you think it is about you?

Speaker 17 (01:25:47):
Though?

Speaker 3 (01:25:48):
That does sit you apart from other players.

Speaker 12 (01:25:50):
I've got more gray hair than most of them experience.

Speaker 2 (01:25:54):
Is that what we say?

Speaker 3 (01:25:58):
When I did the introduction, we were sort of talking
about all the bands and things that you've played in
and when you were younger, you were definitely part of bands,
as you were saying, you were part of Dragon for
a while there and things, and then sort of you
have moved sort of more into working on your own,
but you're still delving into kind of collaborating with lots
of people. That's quite It's a lovely way to be

(01:26:18):
a musician, isn't it?

Speaker 2 (01:26:19):
Well it is.

Speaker 12 (01:26:20):
And you know, I was signed with mister and Missussoni
for quite a while and they were a great record
company back then, and I'm sure they still are. But
you know, they were able to hook me up with
other artists where we could do collaborations together, and it
was great fun, you know. And so it was only
like ten years ago that I made my first album

(01:26:41):
called Accomplice one.

Speaker 2 (01:26:45):
Right.

Speaker 12 (01:26:46):
I like the word accomplice rather than you know, duets
accomplice someone who helps you create, you know, mayhem. So anyway,
so I asked people like Jerry Douglas and Sierra Hull,
Molly Tuttle and Mark Knoffler and people like like that,

(01:27:07):
and you know, I had a great time putting that
record together, you know, And I was very fortunate because
people were up for it. They were ready to come
in and see what it is that I wanted them
to do.

Speaker 3 (01:27:21):
You know, who do you think of the other great
guitarists around.

Speaker 12 (01:27:25):
There's way too many of them. Two, you know, I
don't I see myself as an entertainer and a songwriter
and all that sort of stuff. I'm not, you know,
focused only on guitar. In fact, most people think that
guys like me only listen to guitar players, and nothing
could be further from the truth. I very rarely listen

(01:27:48):
to a guitar record because there's so many good singers
and songwriters. I'm interested in learning how to be a
better songwriter.

Speaker 3 (01:27:55):
You know, that's interesting. You've always pushed the boundaries though
when it comes to acoustic guitar. Is that something you've done.

Speaker 12 (01:28:00):
You've got to because the people who came before me,
Doc Watson, Leo ko Key, you know, people like that.
People who came before me set a high bar, but
they all did their thing their way, and I always
wanted to be different. I don't know how to be
like them, you know. So I also have a need

(01:28:23):
to sound as big as a band when I play,
you know, And and I like going from a raw
to a whisper.

Speaker 3 (01:28:31):
Oh that's really interesting. You have to try, and yes,
you're trying to create that bigger experience than.

Speaker 12 (01:28:37):
Just it's in my head. By the way, Yeah, the
band is in my head.

Speaker 3 (01:28:42):
It's so busy. You were just saying to me, you've
just toured the UIs and you did twenty eight gigs
and thirty two days. I don't want to comment on
your age to I would have thought you would have
you would these days you'd be sort of trying to
do you like getting it done quite quickly and not
sort of taking your time to slow touring they call it.
Oh no, I haven't got time to all right, we're
just gon't okay.

Speaker 12 (01:29:03):
I get out here and go to work.

Speaker 4 (01:29:04):
Yep.

Speaker 12 (01:29:05):
Right when I leave home, my mindset is straight. Is like,
as soon as I close the front door, I'm going
to work. Right when I come home, I can do
what I like, you know. So the way my life
is now, I'm so busy that I plan a year
in advance being with my family, my grown up children

(01:29:28):
and my grandchildren. Then I have another daughter who's going
to school in Sydney, and so I've got to divide
my time. I live in Nashville, I've been there for
twenty five years. I've got a place in England, and
so I go between England and Australia and back to America.
I don't know how much longer I'm going to do that,

(01:29:50):
but you know, I love traveling and I love playing,
and I don't really want to do anything else apart
from you know, being a granddad is one of the
few things in life that is not overrated.

Speaker 3 (01:30:06):
I love that you are going to perform for us
a song called Black and White.

Speaker 12 (01:30:11):
This is from my new album Living in the Light.
And you better rush out and get it because you
know I'll get bills to pay folks. So it starts
out with a bit of rock. In addition to row.

Speaker 2 (01:31:45):
It comes the color.

Speaker 3 (01:32:25):
Baasta amazing, Tommy, and I totally see what you mean.

(01:33:16):
When the color kicks in, the whole feeling change had
opened up. The wave came in and absolutely incredible. Gosh,
it's a delight to watch you play up close.

Speaker 12 (01:33:24):
Oh thank you.

Speaker 3 (01:33:25):
Yeah, that was absolutely incredible. Can I please ask about
the guitar. Are they scratchers on the back of the
guitar here?

Speaker 8 (01:33:31):
Yeah?

Speaker 12 (01:33:31):
Yeah, I did that on purpose. I scratched it up. Yeah,
so that in the middle of a tune, I do
a breakdown and I play the bass with my left
hand and I played like a brush's here. So check
this out. Look at you, multi instrumentalist on one instrument,

(01:33:52):
all singing, all dancing.

Speaker 3 (01:33:57):
Tommy Emmanuel. It has been a delight to meet you.
Thank you so much for coming in and for playing
for us. Tommy's Living in the Light tour starts tonight
in Aukland before heading to Hamilton, Parmesan, North Wellington and
christ Church.

Speaker 12 (01:34:09):
Travel safe, be there or where as giv.

Speaker 3 (01:34:13):
It is twenty two fast eleven.

Speaker 1 (01:34:17):
Relax, it's still the weekend it's the Sunday Session with
Francesca Rudgin and Whiggles for the best selection of great
reeds used talks that'd be.

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Speaker 2 (01:35:19):
Awaits for Sunday session.

Speaker 3 (01:35:24):
I got a text here, Francisca rock and roll broke
the mold the nineteen sixties, tore down the fences and
let the future out. A lot of you really loved
listening to Tony. There wasn't a fantastic thank you very
much for the text. Ninety two ninety two is the
text number.

Speaker 4 (01:35:38):
Right.

Speaker 3 (01:35:39):
It is time for the panel and I'm joined by
Director at Capital Ben Thomas.

Speaker 20 (01:35:41):
Good morning Bender.

Speaker 3 (01:35:44):
I'm also joined by News Talks. He'd be Wellington Morning's
host Nick Mills.

Speaker 19 (01:35:47):
How are you, Nick, I'm fantastic. Francis very good.

Speaker 10 (01:35:51):
Thank you very good.

Speaker 19 (01:35:53):
Why your photo looks amazing?

Speaker 3 (01:35:57):
Thank you very much.

Speaker 18 (01:35:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:35:59):
I told them to do as much work on it
as they liked, and I think they did. Oh that's
very sick. I beat you said that to all the
news talks about.

Speaker 19 (01:36:08):
You're the only prayers because it's true.

Speaker 3 (01:36:11):
Oh you're a darling. Thank you very much. If anyone
wonder what we're talking about, We've had all our marketing
photos updated. I was quite happy to stick with the
five year old ones. But apparently you're supposed to update
these things. Anyway, Let's move on. I spoke to Erica Stanford,
of course Education minister this morning. We're talking about NCAA.

Speaker 2 (01:36:25):
Nick.

Speaker 3 (01:36:26):
Is the government making you know, making learning consistent and
you know, mandating subjects and things for schools. Is this
the right approach?

Speaker 9 (01:36:35):
You know what.

Speaker 19 (01:36:36):
I've been a huge, huge fan of Erica Stanford up
until I watched Q and A this morning and I
kind of came a light way from that because it's
my favorite program of the work. And I came away
from that, and I watched it twice and there was
two things that really scared the living daylight. I mean,
one is about ten thousand students leave school yearly without
a single qualification. Secondly, that sixteen percent of war school

(01:36:58):
leavers leave without the nca level one and twenty eight
percent of marry. Now, if those figures don't scare you,
they should scare you. And I, you know, I'm starting
to wonder whether it's all intention and no results. And
I know those old figures and don't next them say
they're old figures. But she wouldn't guarantee that the figures

(01:37:19):
would change this year.

Speaker 3 (01:37:20):
No, and I don't think they will, Ben, I think
I'm not sure that the system is going to cater
to those who are already struggling.

Speaker 4 (01:37:30):
No, that's right. And look I think she said before,
and I think she's right that, you know, that's that's
a longer term problem that starts much earlier. You know,
you probably won't see significant changes on that until the
sort of cohorts who are younger now and hopefully getting
more of a focus on actually reading and writing and
getting the tools to even be able to sort of

(01:37:52):
get up to you know what my day was called
fifth form and now is you know t And I think,
you know, that's when we'll hopefully start seeing those results.
And you know, I guess the old add you know,
the best time to start would have been ten years ago,
and the second best time is now. You know, I
think that that school leaver issue is one that you

(01:38:15):
know where there you know, is still potentially an issue
in that you know, currently the one benefit I guess
in CEA was that for those students who were really struggling,
who didn't have sort of an academic path ahead, you know,
they could kind of put together some sort of illustration

(01:38:36):
of things that they could do, you know, for future employers,
because it is it is really hard, you know, both
to even get a sort of very very basic entry
level job as a school level lever. And also I
think the effect on sort of the demoralization, you know,
of the students if they leave without sort of kind

(01:38:56):
of any anything in the hand, you know, even a
sort of slightly symbolic slightly warded down kind of you know,
pseudo qualification probably us to kind of keeping them a
role up and giving them a little bit on course.

Speaker 3 (01:39:10):
And this is the problem, isn't it, Nick, Because you're
taking the ability for schools to self govern and do
what's best for their school and their students and creating
this one system. And I understand, I mean, it's going
to be much easier to measure how well we're doing
when we have this sort of rigid sort of system
across all the schools. But we are taking that away,
and I think that comes back to what you were saying,

(01:39:30):
it's going to meet, it's going to disadvantage.

Speaker 19 (01:39:33):
And by the way, being it's a year eleven's the
fifth form, which was the old school sert and you
know what I mean, those numbers don't scare. You just
think of it like this, Eden Park are packed Eden Park.
That's four years of people leaving US college without a
single bit of education. Now that's not enabling them to

(01:39:53):
go and get a builders apprenticeship and electricians apprenticeship. You're
going to have some sort of qualifia qualifications to pass
the three exams, and that I think it's more urgent
than what most people are thinking. And I have no
problems with Erica's plan to examine every one at a
young age and give them tests and give them results

(01:40:13):
and get all that stuff. I have no issue with that.
But if it doesn't change anything, where do we look
then well, I think the.

Speaker 3 (01:40:20):
Other problem we have too, Ben is that and I
think you've been really realistic and saying, actually, we're not
going to see the real benefit of this until sort
of a generation kind of goes through the system. But
the problem is that in a couple of years time,
there is a cohort, a little bunch of guinea pigs
who are going to have to deal with the bar
that's been raised and you know, reach higher levels of

(01:40:41):
literacy and numeracy. And actually, I think we owe it
to them to try and make sure that we're helping
them through that, all of them through it the best
that we can. And I'm not entirely sure that we're
going to have the resources. I'm not entirely sure we're
going to have enough science rooms. I'm not sure we're
going to have enough mass teachers, and you know, to
be able to achieve that in the looking short term.

Speaker 4 (01:41:00):
Yeah, look one hundred percent, but these issues are you know,
my first job out of you to be was for
the Employers and Manufacturers Association, and even back then, the
number one complaint, you know, more concern about the employment
market was basically literacy. You know, basic literacy. Tempers in
of the workforce couldn't read well enough to understand safety

(01:41:23):
safety warnings or labels on machinery or in the workplace.
So you know that this is a very long standing problem. Look,
I think but by and large I think it should
improve they equality of education, yes, at high schools, but
there is a concern about you know, really at that

(01:41:43):
kind of tail end.

Speaker 3 (01:41:45):
Does it look exciting to go to school neck when
you've been told you're going to do mass and you're
going to have to do science in year eleven, and
then you've got two topics that you're allowed to choose.
Does that kind of get you all excited if you're
a student.

Speaker 19 (01:41:57):
You know, this is where education has gone wrong for
the last five decades, is it's not actually teaching people
what people want to learn, you know, it's teaching them
what a book should teach them. And you know, if
they could find young enough what people are really good
at and actually enhance that, then society would be better.
If you're an eight or nine year old that wants
to be a doctor, why God, you should get every

(01:42:18):
resources to be able to make that dream come true.
If you want to be an airline pilot, if you
want to be a builder, if you want to be
whatever you want, We've got to start education really young
enough to actually give them the dream or the chance
for that dream. That's to me is really really simplistic.
What am I crazy?

Speaker 8 (01:42:37):
Is he crazy?

Speaker 2 (01:42:38):
I think?

Speaker 4 (01:42:38):
I think I think that we might end up with
a few too many sort of teachers of you know,
the future, old like Captain class or but you know,
I think they're probably a bit more of a general basis,
probably useful sort of at the early stage. But you know,
I think most you know, Nikkid probably agreed. You know,
you don't really know that ninety five percent of jobs

(01:43:01):
exist until school now has to or what.

Speaker 3 (01:43:04):
The reality of actually having you know, working it actually is.
But I mean there is something to that, Nick, I
completely agree with you. I mean, I think we all
know we go to school and there's stuff we have
to learn that we don't really want to learn, but
we have to learn it. But when a child is
fully engaged it because they're interested in the topic and
they've got or there might be good at it, and
that that's what we want to That's what keeps that
keeps them learning, isn't it.

Speaker 19 (01:43:25):
The simplistic way, in my idea is if you want
to drive a car, you need to pass the written exam.

Speaker 5 (01:43:30):
You know what I mean?

Speaker 19 (01:43:31):
Now I work that out. The only exam I've ever
passed in my life was my driver's license. Why because
I wanted it.

Speaker 3 (01:43:39):
So Yeah, I get that very quickly as you do.
Know what I'm just going to say. The final thing
I'm going to say on the education thing is I
think that they needed to complete at least the first
draft of the curriculum and get some feedback on it
before they started structuring the design of the qualification. I
think they've done this the wrong way around. I think
with an election coming up, they're trying to look, they're

(01:44:01):
trying to release information, look how you know much, how
much it's progressing, and where they're at. But in a way,
I think they've gone They've done it the wrong way round.
They've created a qualification before they've even created a curriculum,
and I think that's what might potentially get them a
little bit of problem. But Ben Thomas Nick Mills, thank
you both very much for your time this morning. Appreciated.
It is twenty four to twelve.

Speaker 1 (01:44:27):
It's the Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin on News Talks
a B and joining.

Speaker 3 (01:44:33):
Me from Brisbane on a pretty good junket Jason Pine,
good morning.

Speaker 14 (01:44:38):
How you score that well? You know, I mean clearly
these are these things Land and you're in box and
you're very quick to reply yes, Aunty, you know wouldn't.

Speaker 3 (01:44:46):
Be Who wouldn't if you were offered to go to
the NRL Magic Ground and Brizee wouldn't be there. We've
got the Warriors versus the Broncos tonight.

Speaker 14 (01:44:52):
Very exciting, Yeah, massive, the best game of the weekend.
I think even before the weekend arrived, you looked across
the schedule of games and your land on the Broncos
against the Warriors. In fact, I'm pretty sure the NRL
have shareduled this way that the middle game on the
final day is the two best supported teams. Obviously the
Broncos are on home soil. But honestly, Francesca, there are

(01:45:15):
so many Warriors fans here. I know a lot of
Kiwis live in Brisbane or the Gold Coast or in
Queensland anyway, but goodness me, there are so many Warriors'
shirts here. It's going to be absolutely packed this afternoon.
It's sun called fifty two thousand plus, it holds. I
would imagine that the Broncos obviously will have the majority
of the home support, but the Warriors fans are going

(01:45:37):
to make so much noise this afternoon.

Speaker 3 (01:45:40):
I've spoken to it. I've had quite a few friends
who have taken their sons over to it. They've said,
it's an amazing weekend. It's well organized, it's easy to
get to. It's just, you know, just fantastic as an event.

Speaker 14 (01:45:53):
All of those things are true. Yep, all of those
things are true. Caxton Street, which leads down to sun
Corp Stadium. Those familiar with the area will know it
just becomes this festival and from three o'clock this afternoon
local time, an hour before kickoff, there is a Warrior's
Nation hcoy from the top of Caxton Street down to
the grounds. Hundreds and hundreds of Warriors fans expected to

(01:46:14):
march en mass down Caxton Street to the grounds. Can
you imagine it? It's just going to be unreal. So yeah,
I can't wait to be part of it this afternight.

Speaker 3 (01:46:24):
Something else which is going to be pretty unreal is
that Auckland FC is to host Sydney FC in the
A League Grand Final next Saturday.

Speaker 7 (01:46:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 14 (01:46:30):
Crazy, a Grand Final in New Zealand. Good, first time ever. Yeah,
it will be pretty good. We'll get magic round out
of the system and then focus forward on next weekend
on it.

Speaker 19 (01:46:39):
Yeah.

Speaker 14 (01:46:39):
Now Auckland FC doing the job Friday night. Sydney FC
getting thrown penalties last night. So yeah, here we are
ten past eight next Saturday night, Go Media Stadium. Those
tickets I think go on sale tomorrow. Neck Beeck is
going to be on the show this afternoon. The CEO
of Auckland to tell us more. But yeah, that's going
to sell out pretty quick.

Speaker 2 (01:46:54):
Cold.

Speaker 3 (01:46:54):
Imagine, Piney, have you ever struggled to get a sun
lounger on holiday?

Speaker 10 (01:46:58):
Have I of all the.

Speaker 14 (01:47:00):
Questions you could ask me, that wasn't in the top
one hundred. I thought I'd be asked, No, you don't
have time to be I thought you meant taking it
with you. You mean when you go out to the
pole and you put.

Speaker 3 (01:47:09):
Your towel on it to say, yeah your neck one.

Speaker 6 (01:47:11):
Yeah.

Speaker 17 (01:47:11):
Yeah.

Speaker 14 (01:47:12):
Well I'm obviously slow because when whenever I go out
to places like that the towels are there, I always
miss out.

Speaker 3 (01:47:18):
Look, let's put it this way, Piney, You're always pacing
up and down a sideline. There's no time to be
lying on a lounger. Can't wait for a weekend sport
that is coming up at midday?

Speaker 1 (01:47:27):
The Sunday Session Full Show podcast on iHeartRadio powered by
News talksb.

Speaker 2 (01:47:34):
Travel with Wendy wo tours Where the World is Yours
book Now.

Speaker 3 (01:47:39):
So I was asking Piney about the sun lounger because
the dawn dash to secure your sun lounder is about
to come to an end, and explaining this oh to
us as our travel correspondent Megan's Singleton good morning.

Speaker 17 (01:47:53):
Good morning, oldest story is such sweet revenge for those
of us who have tried to go out there and
find a sun lounger only to find that they're all
bags by people's towels and you can't find one.

Speaker 10 (01:48:05):
And so I was through to read the story this
week that the court has just.

Speaker 17 (01:48:09):
Ruled that that's illegal, and I don't know what other
results are going to do about it.

Speaker 10 (01:48:16):
So let me just tell you the story.

Speaker 17 (01:48:18):
A German Man took his family on holiday to Greece
back in twenty twenty four and the court, the courts
only just ruled on this now.

Speaker 3 (01:48:24):
So he hugor about it.

Speaker 10 (01:48:27):
Yeah, obviously, what a bit of a waste time. No,
that's all right.

Speaker 17 (01:48:31):
We're going to push through this because I think it's
got a great moral to the story. Anyway, this resort
had four hundred sun lounges, so it was obviously massive.
And he would get up every morning to go and
find a spot for his family, and even at six am,
every single one of them had been bagged hogged by
someone who wasn't sitting on it, just to put their
towel on it. And every day for the week that

(01:48:51):
they were there, his children had to lie on the
ground because there was no available sun lounges. So anyway,
he went back to home and he sued the travel
operator who obviously put this holiday together, and he won
the equivalent of two thousand Zealand dollars on his twelve
thousand dollars holiday because there were the court rule that

(01:49:11):
there weren't enough ratio of sun beds to actual.

Speaker 10 (01:49:15):
Guests using them. Isn't that interesting?

Speaker 17 (01:49:19):
I mean, the sun lounge hogger is a special kind
of person. And I don't know if you've ever done
the passive aggressive or just a straight up aggressive, but
I have written four little points at the bottom of
the posts that I've summarized this story up about what
to do, because if you're just passive about it, then firstly,

(01:49:41):
check for any official rules, because sometimes there are rules
around the resort pool that you can't save a seat that. Secondly,
ask a staff member how long lounges are allowed to
be reserved for.

Speaker 10 (01:49:52):
That would be the more passive one, because then you
can might say.

Speaker 17 (01:49:56):
And ask the neighboring Sundays how long has that tal
been there? I mean, if it's got a book or
whatever with it. Then they what you can do is
set a timer. I think in our there's plenty an
for anne bags. For no one to return to a
some lounger with a book on it in an hour,
I'd be bundling it up and chucking things on the ground.

Speaker 10 (01:50:16):
But prepare for a little confrontation.

Speaker 17 (01:50:18):
But if that person does come back, you could just say, oh,
I was wondering when the person might return to this
lounger that's been unavailable for the past hour.

Speaker 10 (01:50:27):
That's what I do. That's a bit of reconce it's surely.

Speaker 3 (01:50:29):
Surely hotel stuff have to get a little bit more
organized around this, because if there is a lounger sitting
there with a towel moment, as you say, for an
hour and a half, someone someone deserves to be sitting
in it.

Speaker 17 (01:50:39):
So yeah, and I think this ruling will make some
resorts sit up and take notice, because that's a big fine,
you know, and it just got handed down this week.
So let's see what that does for all these other
and cruise ships. Oh my goodness, because there's not very
many lounge spaces around the pools and the deck areas
on cruise ships. So let's just see if we start

(01:51:00):
to see some people take more you know, the staff
take a bit more action on these hoggers.

Speaker 3 (01:51:05):
I love it, Meganington, thank you so much. You can
find more on travel at blogger at large dot com
from Meacan Books.

Speaker 2 (01:51:13):
With Wiggles for the best Election of Greg Reeves.

Speaker 3 (01:51:18):
Joining me now is Joan mackenzie Wickles head book by
Good morning, Good morning, what have you got for us today?

Speaker 21 (01:51:23):
I have a new thriller from Derva McTiernan, who I
think from memory you may have spoken to some years ago,
like the Irish woman. Yeah, that will be right. She
was born in Ireland. She thrillers, Yeah, terrific thrillers.

Speaker 10 (01:51:37):
Yeah.

Speaker 21 (01:51:38):
She qualified as a lawyer, but moved to I think
Western Australia where she now lives. And her new book
is set in Melbourne and it's about a detective. Her
name's Judith Lee. She works on the Melbourne Police Force
and she's having a difficult career moment after she's accused
a cop of wrongdoing, which is a really brave move
since his father is also on the force and has
serious underwill connections, so he's someone to be a bit

(01:52:01):
afraid of. So one day, when a young woman named
Alexis Turner turns up to lay a claim of sexualists
against a locally renowned psychologist, Judith doesn't batten eyel it,
as not only is this a distraction from what's going
on with her issues in the force, but the case
which this young woman outlines is almost identical to one
which was reported to her some years ago and where

(01:52:22):
she failed to take any action. So she sees this
as a chance to redeem herself, and then when she
starts looking into it, the complainant disappears at about the
same time that the first of three beautifully gift wrapped
parcels are left with well the first recipient, who is
the psychologist, who is subsequently found dead with a gunshot

(01:52:42):
to the head. And then a second beautifully wrapped parcel
makes its way to the home of a completely unrelated
down at heel solo father, and a third to the
home of a high flying business woman and associate. And
these gifts appear to be unrelated. But what's even weird
is that each one comes with a beautifully caligraphed note
inside it which means nothing to the police nor to

(01:53:04):
the reader, but ultimately are ruling together and makes sense,
and Judith is fearless as she, of course in these books,
races against time to hunt down the villain, to figure
out what's going on and solve it.

Speaker 3 (01:53:14):
Is terrific. Okay, brilliant. Your second book tells some what
I think probably going to be some pretty interesting local stories.

Speaker 21 (01:53:23):
Yes, it is very interesting. It's called The Valley by
Asher Emmanuel and anyone listening who enjoys really high quality
investigative journalism should sit up and take notice of this one.

Speaker 3 (01:53:34):
He wrote this book.

Speaker 21 (01:53:34):
The Valley refers to the Hut Valley just near Wellington,
of course, and he wrote this book. He's a qualified
journalist and a lawyer, and he wanted to explain to
people what life is like within the judicial system, for
the everyday matters that go through the courts. And he
says that most of what we pick up on as
the public is the sensational cases in the miscarriages of

(01:53:56):
justice and the extreme violence, but actually the day to
day processes within the courts is just a kind of drab,
ongoing litany of I'm going to say misery, because that
is a fair part of it. But what he's done
in this book is take a young legal aid lawyer
who works for the Public Defense Service in Wellington, who's
assigned to a number of cases, and Asher Emmanuel, the

(01:54:18):
author of this book, embeds himself with Lewis over the
course of a couple of years and follows him as
he defends again and again and again two recidivious young
offenders from the Hut Valley, and it's absolutely fascinating. It
takes you through the court, the judicial system, the rehabs,
the social workers, the people trying to help as these

(01:54:40):
in this case, two young men live lives of poverty
and ongoing homelessness, oh sorry, hopelessness from which there appears
to be no escape.

Speaker 3 (01:54:49):
Look, we've all got an opinion on the justice system,
and yet I don't none of us have a lot
of us have never been through it or really understand
how it works or what people are up against. It
just sounds like a really enlightening read.

Speaker 21 (01:55:01):
It is enlightening, and you feel for this young lawyer
who does his job, which is a grim reality day
after day, doing his very best by these young men
who simply cannot help themselves from getting back again and
again into the system. And it must be exhausting and
depressing to be the person who is a public defender
in those instances and does their very very best for

(01:55:24):
their clients at I would say considerable personal cost.

Speaker 3 (01:55:27):
Do you get a sense of what keeps them going.

Speaker 21 (01:55:30):
To some degree that it doesn't go into his own
personal background, So you don't know why it is that
he is so careful and relentless in trying to do
his best by these people. But I think probably a
lot of lawyers would simply say to you that that's
their job and that's what they're called to do.

Speaker 3 (01:55:47):
Okay, fascinating. That was The Valley by Asher and Manuel,
and the first book were Three Reasons for Revenge by
Dervla McTiernan. Thank you so much, Jane.

Speaker 1 (01:55:56):
We'll talk next week to see you then the Sunday
Session full show podcast on my Heart Radio powered by
News Talks.

Speaker 2 (01:56:03):
I'd be.

Speaker 3 (01:56:05):
Thank you so much for joining us on the Sunday
Session today. Thank you to Carrie for producing the show.
Jason Pine is up next with Weekend Sport. I didn't
get the chance to mention it to Jason, but I've
actually been keeping an eye on the TV this morning
watching the amazing World Surf League taking place in Ragon.
All the country is looking good. Lots of people out
watching it, which is fantastic to see. That's going to

(01:56:27):
be a really good boost for those coastal towns. Eleven
days this tournament, anyway, check it out if you've got
god a moment. We are going to finish the hour
with a little bit of Dave Dobbin love You like
I should. He is going to join us on the
Sunday Session next week. Very excited to catch up with
Dave Dobbin. Enjoy the rest of your Sunday, take care.

Speaker 2 (01:57:05):
For more from this Sunday Session with Francesca Rodkin.

Speaker 1 (01:57:08):
Listen live to News Talks at B from nine am Sunday,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.

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