April 25, 2026 • 12 mins
James Reyne is regarded as an Australian musical icon thanks to his success in Australian Crawl, and he's set to celebrate the band's success in his new tour.
Alongside the full band, Reyne will be performing the hits of Australian Crawl next month in Auckland and Wellington.
Reyne says he knows it's unusual to celebrate the fall of a band, but it felt right.
"I'm very grateful for that, as I get older, I realise how grateful I am."
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sunday Session podcast with Francesca Rudkin
from News Talks EDB.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
That's a distinctive Ossie voice, isn't it. Once described as
being as familiar to Australians as Veggie Might, it is
James Rain, frontman and songwriter for Australian Crawl. The band
defined an era of music over the Ditch in the
early eighties before splitting in nineteen eighty six. To mark
the fortieth anniversary of the end, James is on the
(00:33):
road with his The Fall of Crawl tour. He's heading
our way next week and joins me on tour now
from Brisbane. James Rain, good morning, thank you for being
with us.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
Thank you fan Cisca.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
The Fall of Crawl. Now, why the name, it's quite
unique to mark the anniversary of the band's breakup.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
Well, I think it was just the reason for doing it,
and I don't think about those days or place any
real significance on them, except that my manager Scott, who's
good with this stuff, reminded me obviously last year. So
do you realize it's forty years because people keep it up.
It's great and I love the band and it was
great to be in the band, but finish, and I
keep saying to people it finished forty years ago, come on,
(01:14):
let's move on. So he said, why don't we do
it when you go out next year? Because we were
talking last year. He said, whyn't you call it, like,
do something to celebrate the end of the band, And
I said, great, and it's call it the Fall of Crawl.
I have a song called the Fall of Rome, which
is a solo song. And then I had a much
more cynical byline and he said, no, you can't do that.
So we said celebrating the I don't know I was
(01:37):
going to say to thet something, but yeah, So we
just thought it was a good way to do it.
Does it from five people that was forty years ago
it finished?
Speaker 2 (01:44):
I know, But I mean, does it feel like forty years?
Speaker 3 (01:47):
Oh? You know, I don't. Well, that's the thing. I
never think about it. I just don't think about those
that that band, or those days. Really. I mean, I've
still play the songs or some of the songs, and
I still like some of the songs and some of
them written stand up. I feel that. But yeah, unless
someone asked me about it, I never think about it. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
I mean, songs have had great longevity, haven't they. I mean,
could you ever predicted that you would be doing a
tour forty years later to commemorate the band's breakup. You
know that there's this still this huge demand for these songs.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
Yes, there is, and I'm very grateful. I'm very lucky.
But no, I would never have thought if you'd said
to me forty years ago, you realize in forty years
you're going to be celebrating the end of this. Okay, really, okay, anyway,
Look it's good. I'm very lucky. I'm very lucky to
do what I do at the level that I do
after doing it for forty something years, I think I'm
very I'm very grateful for that. As I get older,
(02:42):
I realized, you know how grateful I am.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Well, I've got you down at forty seven years in
this music industry. That's pretty impressive.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
Yeah, I think forty seven. I think I'm trying to
think what was the first time we ever played. I
think I was at drama school, and I think there
was a point when we had about the band at
the very beginning of the band where we had to
decide and a couple of them guys were at university
and we had to side like, okay, well they do
the band where they you know. And I think there
was a point where we decided to write, let's give it,
(03:12):
I don't know, let's give it two years and see
what happens. And I think that might have been late
nineteen seventy eight maybe, So what does that make it?
Forty seven years? Forty eight years?
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Actually, as you said, you don't reflect a huge amount
on that time, but you really did define an error
of Australian music with Australian crawl. Okay, what is your
memory of those years with the band?
Speaker 3 (03:40):
Well, I think a lot of driving and a lot
of laughing. It's been good, you know, that's that's my
If I'm someone else, we just if I had suddenly
to flashback, it's probably a lot of driving, a little
laughing because you know, well Australia, you know, it's you
would just drive all the time, and you would work.
You could work five six nights a week and you'd
(04:01):
work for ten months of the year. You just go
round and round around the country and come out to
New Zealand. Now know now and then and you know
that was just laugh a lot about the sort of
silliness of it all.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Really, James, were you ready for the success and the
fame that came with the straight and Crawl?
Speaker 3 (04:21):
Well, I don't know, Just no, I don't think you don't. Again,
you don't really think about it when you're doing it,
because you're doing it, you're not really aware of You
just go tomorrow, we go and do X, you know.
Or it was just I just remember, just as I said,
a lot of work, just working a lot, doing lots
and lots and lots of gigs. You just play it
all the time, and you know, you're young, and you're
(04:43):
sort of single, and you sort of you know, it
was enjoyed yourself as well. So and we got to
know a lot of people who did the same thing
we did, and so that was good. You got to
meet a lot of other guys. And I made some
really good friends who are people from other bands, and
a couple of friendships. So I still have now, you know,
really really close friendships. But I think you just some
(05:06):
times you wouldn't really think about it in those songs.
You're not objective about it. It just and then it
becomes without sounding pretentious, but then it just becomes what
you do. Yeah, and you go, okay, we've got to
there's no organ recording or you're always I mean, I
was always thinking about After a while, you start thinking
about songs. Okay, I got to come up with some more.
You started, and then you think, don't don't put pressure
(05:28):
on yourself because then you can never write songs if
you put pressure yourself. Then becomes a thing of Okay,
well we've done let's say, two albums, we've got another.
We've got another, you know, next two years, probably SLATERD
We've got to come up with another album. And you're
always sort of writing with some pieces. But there was
that sort of aspect of it, you know, sort of
trying to get songs together while you're probably on the
road most of the time, and that's very sort of
(05:50):
it's hard to write songs on the road.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
Well, I wonder too whe her In this day and age,
with social media and things, there's almost this impression to
young people that you know, you can have this overnight success,
but you are never I don't think, truly ever going
to be successful in the music industry unless you have
a really good work ethic.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
I think so, and I think probably the work ethic is.
It's a different sort of it's a different trajectory now.
I think people for a lot of people, I mean
you know that a lot of people, you can have
actual overnight success. You can come up with something literally
in your bedroom on your computer and if you've got
you know it, can you get you've got enough kind
of now is to get it out on social media
(06:29):
et cetera. You can actually have you know, some sort
of profile literally overnight from your bedroom. You can go
from a bedroom to have you know, a million people
like your stuff. Whereas there was obviously no such thing
as the Internet. Then you just went out in the road,
you know, pay played and played, you know, which is great.
I mean it's a great life when you're young, and
(06:50):
I think it's a great lifestyle.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
Australian Crawlers obviously very distinctly Australia, but I think a
lot of Kiwis resonate with it too. It's music we
grew up on. Do you feel that when you too
are here?
Speaker 3 (07:02):
Oh yeah? And I had a lot of New Zealand
from We have two New Zealanders in the band.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
We could almost claim you, well, I every.
Speaker 3 (07:10):
Time I go to New Zealand. I claim it. Oh,
we're half New Zealand, so we're very close. We have
very close ties with New Zealand. And you know, I
mean Andy our bass players very very is very very
proud New Zealander, as is Josh, one of the guitar players,
and so Andy's are very proud all Blacks. So Andy
(07:35):
browbeating us about the rugby and you know, so those stations. Yeah,
oh yeah, we're very close. We feel reconnected to New Zealand.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
Just before this interview, we played an acoustic version of Reckless,
and you sort of mentioned before that you feel some
of the songs have stood the test of time. But
researching for this interview, I heard you say that initially
you didn't think Reckless was any good. Is that true?
Speaker 3 (08:04):
Yeah? I I didn't. I not think thing was any good.
I just I wrote it. It came out really quickly.
I just really fast, just came out to the point
where I thought, oh, okay, that's one of those songs.
I probably should I put it aside and I'll fixed
that up one day because I thought lyrically, I started
writing about my girlfriend at the time, a girl called
(08:25):
jan Hing, and it was about jam and I, and
then it sort of goes off from this other world
and as often songs do, and litercally, and I thought,
it doesn't really hang together, and what's that? She don't
like that kind of behavior mean, and what is it?
And I thought, doesn't really feel connected. So I thought
I'd just go back and I'll fix it up one day.
So I never replayed it to anybody. And then I think,
(08:47):
being sort of inherently lazy back then, I didn't really
get around to it. And I think we're recording at
one stage, and as it used to happen recording it,
it's sort of towards people sort of go anyone got
anything else, you know, because you used to have to
have B sides and things for singles. And I think
I just played that, or i'd made some rough demo
it or something, And I think I have to give
(09:08):
credit to the probably Brad and Simon and the band
who probably heard it, and you know what, we should
record that. That's pretty good, And really, you're kidding, doesn't many.
So yeah, I'm not that I didn't think it was
any good. I just never really gave it any credits really, and.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
It went on to be one of the biggest songs,
didn't it. We've established it.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
There was only number one, the actual number one single. Whatever.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
We've established it's about forty eight years of a music
career that you've had. Australian Crawl was only seven years
of that. How do you weigh that seven years up
against the rest of your career?
Speaker 3 (09:44):
Well, I look at his floor of my apprenticeship. Well,
I learned a lot. I went from nothing, you know,
from knowing nothing about being in a band, virtual or
not not much about being in a band. And there's
a lot, you know, you learn a lot of being
in a band, especially with your friends people have grown
up with, because everybody changes, you know, and especially when
you start a band when you're pretty quite young. And
so you know, I learned a lot about the dynamics
(10:06):
of and I learned a lot about I met, you know,
a lot about the music industry and the music business,
and you know, the pitfalls and all the sort of
strength and my own strengths, and a lot about my
own strengths and weaknesses. You never stopped learning about that.
In terms of just as a singer and a songwriter
and a performer and a person, you know, just as
a generally as a person. So I just thought it
(10:27):
was a sort of apprenticeship and then I sort of
went and then I still it wasn't until about after
the third solo album I sort of start to think
of myself as a singer. So, you know, you're always learning.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
And that's interesting. I mean, the solo career has produced
twelve studio albums, You've had five top ten hits. Is
that what it is? You've said that you're getting better
as an artist and a songwriter. Is that? Is that
the key? You're just constantly learning. It's just that experience
and that confidence.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
And if you like yeah, and if it's what you do,
and I you know, I'm drawing. I've always been drawn
to just this, you know, just sort of making mute,
sort of making music in my own corner of the world.
And yeah, you're always learning. And if you like it
and you're interested in it, if you find a little
bit and peerces go, oh oh, that's how that works. Okay,
(11:16):
maybe I should bring that into the you know, put
that in the quiver, so to speak. Yeah, so you're
always sort of learning, and you're always learning about the
music industry and the showbiz. You know, I still love showbiz.
I love this sort of showbiz of it. I've always
loved that, all that bit and which was sort of
funny at the time. It must have been in Australian crawl.
(11:36):
Brad Robinson, who was in the band's unfortunately with this anymore.
But Brad and I we're friends since we're eight years old.
But we loved all the showbiz. We like going to
the sort of you know, opening of something, you know,
dressing up for it. We loved all that and at
that time that was considered very uncool to go out
and you know, and so we used to get all
these guys and there go great with maybe all these
(11:57):
actresses and getting invited for the opening of it. I
don't know.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
And what keeps you going after forty eight years.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
It's what I sort of what I do, and I
like it and I think I can you know again,
the thing about touring, we know how to tour now
that's a whole other thing of just how to tour,
you know, the just the actual logistics, because most of
it is just frigging around. To be honest, it's a
great deal of hurry up and ways and become we're
all real experts. On the problems with all every single
(12:28):
airport and highway in Australia.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
It's been a delight to talk to you. Really excited
that you're heading to New Zealand and beasts of luck
with the rest of the tour.
Speaker 3 (12:38):
Thank you so much, Thanks Francesca.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
That was Australian Cruel lead singer and solo artist James Rain.
James is heading for the Fall of Cruel tour this week,
playing Wellington Friday Auckland on Sunday. Techts are available to
both shows.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
For more from the Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin, listen
live to News Talks it'd be from nine am Sunday,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Sunday Session podcast with Francesca Rudkin
from News Talks EDB.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
That's a distinctive Ossie voice, isn't it. Once described as
being as familiar to Australians as Veggie Might, it is
James Rain, frontman and songwriter for Australian Crawl. The band
defined an era of music over the Ditch in the
early eighties before splitting in nineteen eighty six. To mark
the fortieth anniversary of the end, James is on the
(00:33):
road with his The Fall of Crawl tour. He's heading
our way next week and joins me on tour now
from Brisbane. James Rain, good morning, thank you for being
with us.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
Thank you fan Cisca.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
The Fall of Crawl. Now, why the name, it's quite
unique to mark the anniversary of the band's breakup.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
Well, I think it was just the reason for doing it,
and I don't think about those days or place any
real significance on them, except that my manager Scott, who's
good with this stuff, reminded me obviously last year. So
do you realize it's forty years because people keep it up.
It's great and I love the band and it was
great to be in the band, but finish, and I
keep saying to people it finished forty years ago, come on,
(01:14):
let's move on. So he said, why don't we do
it when you go out next year? Because we were
talking last year. He said, whyn't you call it, like,
do something to celebrate the end of the band, And
I said, great, and it's call it the Fall of Crawl.
I have a song called the Fall of Rome, which
is a solo song. And then I had a much
more cynical byline and he said, no, you can't do that.
So we said celebrating the I don't know I was
(01:37):
going to say to thet something, but yeah, So we
just thought it was a good way to do it.
Does it from five people that was forty years ago
it finished?
Speaker 2 (01:44):
I know, But I mean, does it feel like forty years?
Speaker 3 (01:47):
Oh? You know, I don't. Well, that's the thing. I
never think about it. I just don't think about those
that that band, or those days. Really. I mean, I've
still play the songs or some of the songs, and
I still like some of the songs and some of
them written stand up. I feel that. But yeah, unless
someone asked me about it, I never think about it. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
I mean, songs have had great longevity, haven't they. I mean,
could you ever predicted that you would be doing a
tour forty years later to commemorate the band's breakup. You
know that there's this still this huge demand for these songs.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
Yes, there is, and I'm very grateful. I'm very lucky.
But no, I would never have thought if you'd said
to me forty years ago, you realize in forty years
you're going to be celebrating the end of this. Okay, really, okay, anyway,
Look it's good. I'm very lucky. I'm very lucky to
do what I do at the level that I do
after doing it for forty something years, I think I'm
very I'm very grateful for that. As I get older,
(02:42):
I realized, you know how grateful I am.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Well, I've got you down at forty seven years in
this music industry. That's pretty impressive.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
Yeah, I think forty seven. I think I'm trying to
think what was the first time we ever played. I
think I was at drama school, and I think there
was a point when we had about the band at
the very beginning of the band where we had to
decide and a couple of them guys were at university
and we had to side like, okay, well they do
the band where they you know. And I think there
was a point where we decided to write, let's give it,
(03:12):
I don't know, let's give it two years and see
what happens. And I think that might have been late
nineteen seventy eight maybe, So what does that make it?
Forty seven years? Forty eight years?
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Actually, as you said, you don't reflect a huge amount
on that time, but you really did define an error
of Australian music with Australian crawl. Okay, what is your
memory of those years with the band?
Speaker 3 (03:40):
Well, I think a lot of driving and a lot
of laughing. It's been good, you know, that's that's my
If I'm someone else, we just if I had suddenly
to flashback, it's probably a lot of driving, a little
laughing because you know, well Australia, you know, it's you
would just drive all the time, and you would work.
You could work five six nights a week and you'd
(04:01):
work for ten months of the year. You just go
round and round around the country and come out to
New Zealand. Now know now and then and you know
that was just laugh a lot about the sort of
silliness of it all.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Really, James, were you ready for the success and the
fame that came with the straight and Crawl?
Speaker 3 (04:21):
Well, I don't know, Just no, I don't think you don't. Again,
you don't really think about it when you're doing it,
because you're doing it, you're not really aware of You
just go tomorrow, we go and do X, you know.
Or it was just I just remember, just as I said,
a lot of work, just working a lot, doing lots
and lots and lots of gigs. You just play it
all the time, and you know, you're young, and you're
(04:43):
sort of single, and you sort of you know, it
was enjoyed yourself as well. So and we got to
know a lot of people who did the same thing
we did, and so that was good. You got to
meet a lot of other guys. And I made some
really good friends who are people from other bands, and
a couple of friendships. So I still have now, you know,
really really close friendships. But I think you just some
(05:06):
times you wouldn't really think about it in those songs.
You're not objective about it. It just and then it
becomes without sounding pretentious, but then it just becomes what
you do. Yeah, and you go, okay, we've got to
there's no organ recording or you're always I mean, I
was always thinking about After a while, you start thinking
about songs. Okay, I got to come up with some more.
You started, and then you think, don't don't put pressure
(05:28):
on yourself because then you can never write songs if
you put pressure yourself. Then becomes a thing of Okay,
well we've done let's say, two albums, we've got another.
We've got another, you know, next two years, probably SLATERD
We've got to come up with another album. And you're
always sort of writing with some pieces. But there was
that sort of aspect of it, you know, sort of
trying to get songs together while you're probably on the
road most of the time, and that's very sort of
(05:50):
it's hard to write songs on the road.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
Well, I wonder too whe her In this day and age,
with social media and things, there's almost this impression to
young people that you know, you can have this overnight success,
but you are never I don't think, truly ever going
to be successful in the music industry unless you have
a really good work ethic.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
I think so, and I think probably the work ethic is.
It's a different sort of it's a different trajectory now.
I think people for a lot of people, I mean
you know that a lot of people, you can have
actual overnight success. You can come up with something literally
in your bedroom on your computer and if you've got
you know it, can you get you've got enough kind
of now is to get it out on social media
(06:29):
et cetera. You can actually have you know, some sort
of profile literally overnight from your bedroom. You can go
from a bedroom to have you know, a million people
like your stuff. Whereas there was obviously no such thing
as the Internet. Then you just went out in the road,
you know, pay played and played, you know, which is great.
I mean it's a great life when you're young, and
(06:50):
I think it's a great lifestyle.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
Australian Crawlers obviously very distinctly Australia, but I think a
lot of Kiwis resonate with it too. It's music we
grew up on. Do you feel that when you too
are here?
Speaker 3 (07:02):
Oh yeah? And I had a lot of New Zealand
from We have two New Zealanders in the band.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
We could almost claim you, well, I every.
Speaker 3 (07:10):
Time I go to New Zealand. I claim it. Oh,
we're half New Zealand, so we're very close. We have
very close ties with New Zealand. And you know, I
mean Andy our bass players very very is very very
proud New Zealander, as is Josh, one of the guitar players,
and so Andy's are very proud all Blacks. So Andy
(07:35):
browbeating us about the rugby and you know, so those stations. Yeah,
oh yeah, we're very close. We feel reconnected to New Zealand.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
Just before this interview, we played an acoustic version of Reckless,
and you sort of mentioned before that you feel some
of the songs have stood the test of time. But
researching for this interview, I heard you say that initially
you didn't think Reckless was any good. Is that true?
Speaker 3 (08:04):
Yeah? I I didn't. I not think thing was any good.
I just I wrote it. It came out really quickly.
I just really fast, just came out to the point
where I thought, oh, okay, that's one of those songs.
I probably should I put it aside and I'll fixed
that up one day because I thought lyrically, I started
writing about my girlfriend at the time, a girl called
(08:25):
jan Hing, and it was about jam and I, and
then it sort of goes off from this other world
and as often songs do, and litercally, and I thought,
it doesn't really hang together, and what's that? She don't
like that kind of behavior mean, and what is it?
And I thought, doesn't really feel connected. So I thought
I'd just go back and I'll fix it up one day.
So I never replayed it to anybody. And then I think,
(08:47):
being sort of inherently lazy back then, I didn't really
get around to it. And I think we're recording at
one stage, and as it used to happen recording it,
it's sort of towards people sort of go anyone got
anything else, you know, because you used to have to
have B sides and things for singles. And I think
I just played that, or i'd made some rough demo
it or something, And I think I have to give
(09:08):
credit to the probably Brad and Simon and the band
who probably heard it, and you know what, we should
record that. That's pretty good, And really, you're kidding, doesn't many.
So yeah, I'm not that I didn't think it was
any good. I just never really gave it any credits really, and.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
It went on to be one of the biggest songs,
didn't it. We've established it.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
There was only number one, the actual number one single. Whatever.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
We've established it's about forty eight years of a music
career that you've had. Australian Crawl was only seven years
of that. How do you weigh that seven years up
against the rest of your career?
Speaker 3 (09:44):
Well, I look at his floor of my apprenticeship. Well,
I learned a lot. I went from nothing, you know,
from knowing nothing about being in a band, virtual or
not not much about being in a band. And there's
a lot, you know, you learn a lot of being
in a band, especially with your friends people have grown
up with, because everybody changes, you know, and especially when
you start a band when you're pretty quite young. And
so you know, I learned a lot about the dynamics
(10:06):
of and I learned a lot about I met, you know,
a lot about the music industry and the music business,
and you know, the pitfalls and all the sort of
strength and my own strengths, and a lot about my
own strengths and weaknesses. You never stopped learning about that.
In terms of just as a singer and a songwriter
and a performer and a person, you know, just as
a generally as a person. So I just thought it
(10:27):
was a sort of apprenticeship and then I sort of
went and then I still it wasn't until about after
the third solo album I sort of start to think
of myself as a singer. So, you know, you're always learning.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
And that's interesting. I mean, the solo career has produced
twelve studio albums, You've had five top ten hits. Is
that what it is? You've said that you're getting better
as an artist and a songwriter. Is that? Is that
the key? You're just constantly learning. It's just that experience
and that confidence.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
And if you like yeah, and if it's what you do,
and I you know, I'm drawing. I've always been drawn
to just this, you know, just sort of making mute,
sort of making music in my own corner of the world.
And yeah, you're always learning. And if you like it
and you're interested in it, if you find a little
bit and peerces go, oh oh, that's how that works. Okay,
(11:16):
maybe I should bring that into the you know, put
that in the quiver, so to speak. Yeah, so you're
always sort of learning, and you're always learning about the
music industry and the showbiz. You know, I still love showbiz.
I love this sort of showbiz of it. I've always
loved that, all that bit and which was sort of
funny at the time. It must have been in Australian crawl.
(11:36):
Brad Robinson, who was in the band's unfortunately with this anymore.
But Brad and I we're friends since we're eight years old.
But we loved all the showbiz. We like going to
the sort of you know, opening of something, you know,
dressing up for it. We loved all that and at
that time that was considered very uncool to go out
and you know, and so we used to get all
these guys and there go great with maybe all these
(11:57):
actresses and getting invited for the opening of it. I
don't know.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
And what keeps you going after forty eight years.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
It's what I sort of what I do, and I
like it and I think I can you know again,
the thing about touring, we know how to tour now
that's a whole other thing of just how to tour,
you know, the just the actual logistics, because most of
it is just frigging around. To be honest, it's a
great deal of hurry up and ways and become we're
all real experts. On the problems with all every single
(12:28):
airport and highway in Australia.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
It's been a delight to talk to you. Really excited
that you're heading to New Zealand and beasts of luck
with the rest of the tour.
Speaker 3 (12:38):
Thank you so much, Thanks Francesca.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
That was Australian Cruel lead singer and solo artist James Rain.
James is heading for the Fall of Cruel tour this week,
playing Wellington Friday Auckland on Sunday. Techts are available to
both shows.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
For more from the Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin, listen
live to News Talks it'd be from nine am Sunday,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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