The ongoing conflict in the Middle East has sparked concerns about global oil shortages, domestic rising petrol and diesel costs, and it's got experts speculating.
The Government is working to find a solution, with Energy Minister Simon Watts meeting with his counterparts in Tokyo for the Indo-Pacific Energy Security Forum to discuss the issue.
Nathan Surendran is the chair of the Wise Response Society, and he says the conflict is causing oil refineries all over the world to slow down production.
"There is the National Fuel Plan - the Government has, effectively, a staged incremental rationing type process...it should signal that rationing is a potential possibility, because signalling it gives people time to adjust mentally."
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sunday Session podcast with Francesca Rudgin
from News Talks EDB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
So a lot of talk this week about global oil shortages,
domestic rising petrol and diesel costs, potential restrictions, and yet
politicians are doing all they can to reassure us everything
is okay. So what do New Zealanders need to know
and understand about the impact of the conflict in the
Middle East and how it will affect the supply of
refined fuel to New Zealand. Nathan Surrendra Surrendering is the
(00:34):
chair of the Wise Response Society and an engineering consultant,
and he joins me, now, thanks so much for your time.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
Nathan, Good morning, Francisco.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
You commented yesterday that coverage of fuel shortages so far
have missed the point. Can you talk me through that?
Speaker 3 (00:52):
Yeah, So, I think one of the big things that
people aren't understanding about the current situation is that the
conflict is likely to go on for longer than you know,
people would like it too. I think that goes without
saying to some degree, but it's likely to be months
based on the messaging from Iran, and we've lost twenty
(01:13):
percent of total oil supply globally. Now we've also lost
what's known as saurkrud from the Middle East, which means
there's sulfur in that fuel when it's refined that the
various refiners around the world, and that sulfur is a
feed stock for other processes making sulfuric acid, for mining metals,
and for fertilizer production. So there are flow on effects
(01:35):
that are going to play out over months and potentially
years as this crisis works its way through the global economy.
And because of that and understanding those supply chain dynamics,
Wise Response is calling for the government to basically step
up and introduce rationing earlier rather than later, because we
know that these second and third order effects are going
(01:57):
to affect us over the long term.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Because we don't really think about where our fuel comes from.
We turn up at the pump, it's there, we expect
it to be there. Can you just talk me through
the supply chain of New Zealand's fuel and why we're
not now at risk?
Speaker 3 (02:12):
Yes, absolutely so. New Zealand's fuel is no longer produced domestically,
and there's been a lot of talk about we shouldn't
have closed Marlesdon points that's true to some degree, but
the miss is a bigger point, which is that you know,
because of the amount of fuel that's lost. The fuel
that we were refining at Myerston Point came from the
Middle East anyway, came from the straightfor moves, so we
(02:32):
would have lost that import of the raw crude instead.
Now what we do is we import the refined products,
so the petrol and diesel, and they come from a
variety of refineries, but primarily South Korea is about forty
eight percent of our total supply and Singapore is about
thirty three percent, so about half and a third from
those two refineries alone. Those refineries get their oil from
(02:55):
the Middle East, and that oil from the Middle East
obviously has stopped flowing, so those refineries are running short
on the feedstock, the raw crude oil, and they are
therefore constraining their production and in some cases having to
turn off certain parts of the production. There's multiple different
parts of the refining process and so on in order
(03:16):
to well simply because they do not have the materials
to refine.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
So the key thing is that over eighty percent of
our refined fuel comes from South Korea and Singapore, and
both those countries refineries run on Middle Eastern crude. And
of course it's not just actually about rising prices, but
that there may be statehoarding. These countries might start restricting
what they're exporting to protect their own domestic market.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
That's correct, I mean, you know, to give you an example,
China has now said there is an absolute ban on
export of refined petroleum products from China at this point,
and that's through to the end of the month for now.
But that's the position that they've taken, and it's quite
possible that other countries will follow suit. South Korea was
having discussions last week about implementing a similar ban. We
(04:07):
haven't yet, as I understand it, heard what their decision is. Obviously,
they're monitoring a developing situation as we are.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
So the fuel that is currently en route to New Zealand,
are we guaranteed that that will arrive? Could it be
diverted to another country?
Speaker 3 (04:23):
Yeah? Possibly? So that brings up an important point actually,
because the ministers have been on the out in the
media saying, you know, well we've got about fifty days
worth of fuel, and there's three tiers to our fuel reserves,
Tier one, two and three. Tier one is the stuff
we've got on in tanks on the ground in country
(04:44):
and standards of the end of last week, and we
were saying that's about thirty days. Then we have about
another twenty days worth of fuel coming to us on
those ships. And then beyond that the tickets to buy
for the options, which we'll talk about later if you like.
But that second tier, the floating reserve, is oil on
ships that can potentially be diverted for supplier declares force masure.
(05:08):
It has the right to do what it wants with
the fuel that it has in the tanks and so
in the tankers, and so there is already president earlier
last week of fuel that was supposed to be heading
to Europe and Africa being rediverted back to Asia.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
We are hearing this term force masure being used already.
Can you explain, you know what it means within this industry.
Speaker 3 (05:34):
Yeah, yeah, Basically, it means that there was something happens global,
geopolitical or natural disaster type event whereby the contract that
we've signed with you is no longer valid. And the
reason for that is there's circumstances beyond our control. We
cannot fulfill the contract.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
Okay, So if South Korea or Singapore or these ships
which were you know, hopefully en route to New Zealand
are diverted or there is a restriction in what they
are prepared to export. What do we do. Do we
have a beg cap option.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
Well, there is the National Fuel Plan, so you know,
the government has effectively a staged incremental rationing type process. Initially,
and this is what we called for at the beginning
of the week. Should signal that rationing is a potential possibility,
because signaling it gives people time to adjust mentally, gives
(06:30):
them time to think about what they need to change.
It can indicate that we should be trying to conserve
our fuel resources, so trying to reduce our demand through
elective measures that we can take as individuals and organizations.
It can force that upon us through the nineteen eighty
one forget what it's called, but the Fuel Act that
(06:53):
basically give them the emergency powers to implement rationing after
the last oil crisis that we experienced, and then beyond that,
it's a question of how you ration.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
Let's talk about the National Fuel Plan. It doesn't look
like a terribly detailed plane would you be expecting at
this point that the government would be just quietly looking
at a more specific plan to deal with this situation,
to make Kiwi's needs.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
I've been hearing through the sort of back channels that
I think they are doing that in the background. You know,
it will be very, very irresponsible than not to be
at this point. And I think it's pretty clear that
you know, what they can say publicly and what they
are doing in practice behind the scenes are two different things. Often.
You know, what we've got at the moment is the
(07:45):
situation though where by doing nothing, you know, no indication
that rationing might be a thing. We're rationing by price,
and so you know you've seen these price spikes. It
leads to situations where people who can afford it can
go out and buy fuel, buy some more fuel, cans,
store it, etc. And those who can't are left looking
(08:06):
at it. You know, they turn it to the pedal
station and maybe the pump are dry. So you know,
that's that's where we currently are.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
It's those there's quiet mixed messages that becomes the problem,
isn't it, Nathan, Because look, I'm not running out and
buying in bulk and hoarding in anything. But I have
watched the price shoot up dramatically throughout the week, so
you can't deny that it's not going to have an
impact Onnathon. We've got a problem coming from, you know, approaching.
So it's nice to say, hey, it's okay, no need
(08:33):
to panic now. I don't think anyone necessarily is panicking now,
but I do think that everyone understands that in the
medium will potentially the long term, there could also be issues.
And even even the Fine Minster Nichola Willis has said
there's no need to panic now, but in the medium
term there could be issues. What are we looking at?
Speaker 3 (08:50):
Yeah? In turn wise, well, I think we will see
some rationing introduced. I mean it seems like it really
is the only option when you've run short of a
resource and you're trying to make sure that people get
a fair allocation of it, that you have to have
some sort of rushing. So, I mean, I can talk
you through the sort of different increments of rationing if
you like. So, I mean, you know, as I said,
(09:13):
the first one is do nothing. The price spike analogy
and using a water analogy, if you've got a town
where the reservoir is running low, five ways to handle it.
You can do nothing and ration by price. You can
send a letter to your people saying please use less water.
Some people will, most won't. There's no consequences, no real fairness.
(09:36):
It's a voluntary demand restraint. If you go to a
next increment up, no water in your garden on Tuesdays
or Thursdays, which is analogous to you know, different stickers,
colored stickers for different days. You can use your car.
Simple crude problem is the family with four cars picks
a different one each day. Single car household loses a
(09:57):
day of mobility, and the farmer who needs a vehicles
seven days a week. The problem the next increment up
form that is actual rationing by tokens. We're talking about
tradeable energy quotas as the system we'd like to see.
But before that, you know, just basic tokens affair on
the surface. But if a plumber runs out on Wednesday
and the retired couple has barely used half their tokens,
(10:19):
then they'll trade informally regardless of whether or not you've
got a mechanism in place. So you create a black
market and tradable energy quotas, which is the option that
wise response is promoting. Same tokens, but you can legally
sell your spares, so the total town usage stays within
what the reservoir can handle. Back to our water analogy,
but households sorted out amongst themselves, careful that households earn
(10:40):
some money and the ones that need more get it.
Nobody goes to a black market, and the total stays
within the physical limits because we're facing a situation in
rutioning where there is a limit to the total amount
that we can share between ourselves.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
Okay, it's interesting. I like the water and analogy only, Nathan,
because I know that when councils tell us to save water,
we're very good at savent water.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
So yes, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
Hey, when will we reach the hard part? For New
Zealand can humors and businesses?
Speaker 3 (11:07):
Do you think it's a good question? And I don't
really have an answer to you. You know, we've got
thirty days of fuel on the ground in tanks. If
there was a more widespread force matured declaration, that twenty
two days worth that is still on ships that haven't
arrived yet may not get here. So we're stuck with
that thirty days. There was some work done last year
(11:31):
by Matt Boyd a group called adapt Research, and he
was looking out, well, how could we actually ration out
a finite fuel supply. He was looking at, you know,
other potential disastrous scenarios and figured out that, you know,
you can actually stretch out quite a long way if
you start early and you know you've got that thirty
days and say we can reduce demand by two thirds
(11:54):
by absolutely you know, pairing back to the minimum. Then
suddenly we've got ninety days of fuel. So you know,
the quicker we do that sort of thing, the better.
And this is why you know we're calling for demand
restraint and the government's signaling now rather than in two
weeks time.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
I've got a quick ticks here and wondering if you
could answer for me, Nathan Jerry tick To say, the
question here is why did prices go up over this week?
The cost of that stock wasn't the current cost price?
So why because we're not paying for we're paying for
the now?
Speaker 3 (12:27):
Yeah, I think I think you could. You can think
of it as a risk premium. That's the sort of
economic way of saying price gadging. And it's it's hard
to say definitively whether or not that's going on because
I don't have a clear insight into you know, the
specific commercial priorities, but it seemed pretty clear that the
(12:49):
price went up pretty quickly ahead of any actual limits happening,
and that we've seen that happen historically, and we know
that the price goes up quickly and then doesn't really
come back down as quickly. All of that is additional
profit that is being siphoned out of people's pockets.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
So what would you recommend Kiwis do. Should they should
they store a little extra should they be thinking about,
you know, doing more in one trip, rationing the you know,
the yuse of fuel.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
I think that yeah, I think that those sorts of
things are definitely on the table. I mean, you know,
there's different tiers to what we should be doing. Right
So at the national level, I said, what we're doing.
At the regional level, we should look ideally to some
sort of coordinated response from our councils and our emergency
(13:39):
management teams. The problem there is that often they're extremely underfunded,
you know, and they also have other mandated responsibilities. So
it's worth going and you know, asking your council what
they what, to think hard about what they can do,
and you know to support initiatives that, for example, try
(13:59):
to relocalize our food systems, which is part of a bigger,
longer term shift that I think we need in response
to the multiple crises, not just this specific one, that
are growing over time as we run into planetary boundaries
and resource depletion issues. So you know, buying from your
local grower, butcher or farmers market, if you're not spending
(14:22):
money on food that was trucked from christ Church or
Auckland or wherever the distribution centers are to the supermarkets,
then that shortens the chain and supports local growers who
can then support our communities better in times like this.
You've said combining your trips carpools to work if you
can't work from home, even if it's only a day
(14:42):
a week, that's twenty percent reduction on your commuting fuel
bill and you know fuel use should I say, talk
to your neighbors. You know, we know that communities that
cooperate and who talk to each other do better in
a crisis. There was the example in the christ Church
earthquakes of the community in Littlington which had the time
(15:02):
bank going. And you know there's things around that that
can be set up do you have. You know, as
I said, maybe a month or so. It's worth a feel.
Now it's time to think and prepare and get some
of these ideas out there and socialized and get people
moving on this stuff so that when the actual crisis arrives,
which we can see on the horizon, then we've actually
made some steps positively now to adjust. And then at
(15:27):
the individual level, you know, plant some more seeds, make
sure you've got some water stored. I mean, you know,
the steps people can take. It's really interesting.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
Again, sorry, I was just going to say it's really
interesting you say that because I popped down to mind
at Teens today to grab a few more punnets and ludacs,
and somebody said to me, ah, yes, we've had a
lot of people coming in and restocking their veggie gardens
and things, and you know, getting ready for the increase
in cost of food prices and things because of the
petrol So I think'rebsolutely right on that one. Nathan, surrender
(16:00):
and thank you very much for your time. Nathan is
the chair of the Wise Response Society and an engineering consultant.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
For more from the Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin, listen
live to News Talks at B from nine am Sunday,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Sunday Session podcast with Francesca Rudgin
from News Talks EDB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
So a lot of talk this week about global oil shortages,
domestic rising petrol and diesel costs, potential restrictions, and yet
politicians are doing all they can to reassure us everything
is okay. So what do New Zealanders need to know
and understand about the impact of the conflict in the
Middle East and how it will affect the supply of
refined fuel to New Zealand. Nathan Surrendra Surrendering is the
(00:34):
chair of the Wise Response Society and an engineering consultant,
and he joins me, now, thanks so much for your time.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
Nathan, Good morning, Francisco.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
You commented yesterday that coverage of fuel shortages so far
have missed the point. Can you talk me through that?
Speaker 3 (00:52):
Yeah, So, I think one of the big things that
people aren't understanding about the current situation is that the
conflict is likely to go on for longer than you know,
people would like it too. I think that goes without
saying to some degree, but it's likely to be months
based on the messaging from Iran, and we've lost twenty
(01:13):
percent of total oil supply globally. Now we've also lost
what's known as saurkrud from the Middle East, which means
there's sulfur in that fuel when it's refined that the
various refiners around the world, and that sulfur is a
feed stock for other processes making sulfuric acid, for mining metals,
and for fertilizer production. So there are flow on effects
(01:35):
that are going to play out over months and potentially
years as this crisis works its way through the global economy.
And because of that and understanding those supply chain dynamics,
Wise Response is calling for the government to basically step
up and introduce rationing earlier rather than later, because we
know that these second and third order effects are going
(01:57):
to affect us over the long term.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Because we don't really think about where our fuel comes from.
We turn up at the pump, it's there, we expect
it to be there. Can you just talk me through
the supply chain of New Zealand's fuel and why we're
not now at risk?
Speaker 3 (02:12):
Yes, absolutely so. New Zealand's fuel is no longer produced domestically,
and there's been a lot of talk about we shouldn't
have closed Marlesdon points that's true to some degree, but
the miss is a bigger point, which is that you know,
because of the amount of fuel that's lost. The fuel
that we were refining at Myerston Point came from the
Middle East anyway, came from the straightfor moves, so we
(02:32):
would have lost that import of the raw crude instead.
Now what we do is we import the refined products,
so the petrol and diesel, and they come from a
variety of refineries, but primarily South Korea is about forty
eight percent of our total supply and Singapore is about
thirty three percent, so about half and a third from
those two refineries alone. Those refineries get their oil from
(02:55):
the Middle East, and that oil from the Middle East
obviously has stopped flowing, so those refineries are running short
on the feedstock, the raw crude oil, and they are
therefore constraining their production and in some cases having to
turn off certain parts of the production. There's multiple different
parts of the refining process and so on in order
(03:16):
to well simply because they do not have the materials
to refine.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
So the key thing is that over eighty percent of
our refined fuel comes from South Korea and Singapore, and
both those countries refineries run on Middle Eastern crude. And
of course it's not just actually about rising prices, but
that there may be statehoarding. These countries might start restricting
what they're exporting to protect their own domestic market.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
That's correct, I mean, you know, to give you an example,
China has now said there is an absolute ban on
export of refined petroleum products from China at this point,
and that's through to the end of the month for now.
But that's the position that they've taken, and it's quite
possible that other countries will follow suit. South Korea was
having discussions last week about implementing a similar ban. We
(04:07):
haven't yet, as I understand it, heard what their decision is. Obviously,
they're monitoring a developing situation as we are.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
So the fuel that is currently en route to New Zealand,
are we guaranteed that that will arrive? Could it be
diverted to another country?
Speaker 3 (04:23):
Yeah? Possibly? So that brings up an important point actually,
because the ministers have been on the out in the
media saying, you know, well we've got about fifty days
worth of fuel, and there's three tiers to our fuel reserves,
Tier one, two and three. Tier one is the stuff
we've got on in tanks on the ground in country
(04:44):
and standards of the end of last week, and we
were saying that's about thirty days. Then we have about
another twenty days worth of fuel coming to us on
those ships. And then beyond that the tickets to buy
for the options, which we'll talk about later if you like.
But that second tier, the floating reserve, is oil on
ships that can potentially be diverted for supplier declares force masure.
(05:08):
It has the right to do what it wants with
the fuel that it has in the tanks and so
in the tankers, and so there is already president earlier
last week of fuel that was supposed to be heading
to Europe and Africa being rediverted back to Asia.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
We are hearing this term force masure being used already.
Can you explain, you know what it means within this industry.
Speaker 3 (05:34):
Yeah, yeah, Basically, it means that there was something happens global,
geopolitical or natural disaster type event whereby the contract that
we've signed with you is no longer valid. And the
reason for that is there's circumstances beyond our control. We
cannot fulfill the contract.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
Okay, So if South Korea or Singapore or these ships
which were you know, hopefully en route to New Zealand
are diverted or there is a restriction in what they
are prepared to export. What do we do. Do we
have a beg cap option.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
Well, there is the National Fuel Plan, so you know,
the government has effectively a staged incremental rationing type process. Initially,
and this is what we called for at the beginning
of the week. Should signal that rationing is a potential possibility,
because signaling it gives people time to adjust mentally, gives
(06:30):
them time to think about what they need to change.
It can indicate that we should be trying to conserve
our fuel resources, so trying to reduce our demand through
elective measures that we can take as individuals and organizations.
It can force that upon us through the nineteen eighty
one forget what it's called, but the Fuel Act that
(06:53):
basically give them the emergency powers to implement rationing after
the last oil crisis that we experienced, and then beyond that,
it's a question of how you ration.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
Let's talk about the National Fuel Plan. It doesn't look
like a terribly detailed plane would you be expecting at
this point that the government would be just quietly looking
at a more specific plan to deal with this situation,
to make Kiwi's needs.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
I've been hearing through the sort of back channels that
I think they are doing that in the background. You know,
it will be very, very irresponsible than not to be
at this point. And I think it's pretty clear that
you know, what they can say publicly and what they
are doing in practice behind the scenes are two different things. Often.
You know, what we've got at the moment is the
(07:45):
situation though where by doing nothing, you know, no indication
that rationing might be a thing. We're rationing by price,
and so you know you've seen these price spikes. It
leads to situations where people who can afford it can
go out and buy fuel, buy some more fuel, cans,
store it, etc. And those who can't are left looking
(08:06):
at it. You know, they turn it to the pedal
station and maybe the pump are dry. So you know,
that's that's where we currently are.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
It's those there's quiet mixed messages that becomes the problem,
isn't it, Nathan, Because look, I'm not running out and
buying in bulk and hoarding in anything. But I have
watched the price shoot up dramatically throughout the week, so
you can't deny that it's not going to have an
impact Onnathon. We've got a problem coming from, you know, approaching.
So it's nice to say, hey, it's okay, no need
(08:33):
to panic now. I don't think anyone necessarily is panicking now,
but I do think that everyone understands that in the
medium will potentially the long term, there could also be issues.
And even even the Fine Minster Nichola Willis has said
there's no need to panic now, but in the medium
term there could be issues. What are we looking at?
Speaker 3 (08:50):
Yeah? In turn wise, well, I think we will see
some rationing introduced. I mean it seems like it really
is the only option when you've run short of a
resource and you're trying to make sure that people get
a fair allocation of it, that you have to have
some sort of rushing. So, I mean, I can talk
you through the sort of different increments of rationing if
you like. So, I mean, you know, as I said,
(09:13):
the first one is do nothing. The price spike analogy
and using a water analogy, if you've got a town
where the reservoir is running low, five ways to handle it.
You can do nothing and ration by price. You can
send a letter to your people saying please use less water.
Some people will, most won't. There's no consequences, no real fairness.
(09:36):
It's a voluntary demand restraint. If you go to a
next increment up, no water in your garden on Tuesdays
or Thursdays, which is analogous to you know, different stickers,
colored stickers for different days. You can use your car.
Simple crude problem is the family with four cars picks
a different one each day. Single car household loses a
(09:57):
day of mobility, and the farmer who needs a vehicles
seven days a week. The problem the next increment up
form that is actual rationing by tokens. We're talking about
tradeable energy quotas as the system we'd like to see.
But before that, you know, just basic tokens affair on
the surface. But if a plumber runs out on Wednesday
and the retired couple has barely used half their tokens,
(10:19):
then they'll trade informally regardless of whether or not you've
got a mechanism in place. So you create a black
market and tradable energy quotas, which is the option that
wise response is promoting. Same tokens, but you can legally
sell your spares, so the total town usage stays within
what the reservoir can handle. Back to our water analogy,
but households sorted out amongst themselves, careful that households earn
(10:40):
some money and the ones that need more get it.
Nobody goes to a black market, and the total stays
within the physical limits because we're facing a situation in
rutioning where there is a limit to the total amount
that we can share between ourselves.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
Okay, it's interesting. I like the water and analogy only, Nathan,
because I know that when councils tell us to save water,
we're very good at savent water.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
So yes, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
Hey, when will we reach the hard part? For New
Zealand can humors and businesses?
Speaker 3 (11:07):
Do you think it's a good question? And I don't
really have an answer to you. You know, we've got
thirty days of fuel on the ground in tanks. If
there was a more widespread force matured declaration, that twenty
two days worth that is still on ships that haven't
arrived yet may not get here. So we're stuck with
that thirty days. There was some work done last year
(11:31):
by Matt Boyd a group called adapt Research, and he
was looking out, well, how could we actually ration out
a finite fuel supply. He was looking at, you know,
other potential disastrous scenarios and figured out that, you know,
you can actually stretch out quite a long way if
you start early and you know you've got that thirty
days and say we can reduce demand by two thirds
(11:54):
by absolutely you know, pairing back to the minimum. Then
suddenly we've got ninety days of fuel. So you know,
the quicker we do that sort of thing, the better.
And this is why you know we're calling for demand
restraint and the government's signaling now rather than in two
weeks time.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
I've got a quick ticks here and wondering if you
could answer for me, Nathan Jerry tick To say, the
question here is why did prices go up over this week?
The cost of that stock wasn't the current cost price?
So why because we're not paying for we're paying for
the now?
Speaker 3 (12:27):
Yeah, I think I think you could. You can think
of it as a risk premium. That's the sort of
economic way of saying price gadging. And it's it's hard
to say definitively whether or not that's going on because
I don't have a clear insight into you know, the
specific commercial priorities, but it seemed pretty clear that the
(12:49):
price went up pretty quickly ahead of any actual limits happening,
and that we've seen that happen historically, and we know
that the price goes up quickly and then doesn't really
come back down as quickly. All of that is additional
profit that is being siphoned out of people's pockets.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
So what would you recommend Kiwis do. Should they should
they store a little extra should they be thinking about,
you know, doing more in one trip, rationing the you know,
the yuse of fuel.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
I think that yeah, I think that those sorts of
things are definitely on the table. I mean, you know,
there's different tiers to what we should be doing. Right
So at the national level, I said, what we're doing.
At the regional level, we should look ideally to some
sort of coordinated response from our councils and our emergency
(13:39):
management teams. The problem there is that often they're extremely underfunded,
you know, and they also have other mandated responsibilities. So
it's worth going and you know, asking your council what
they what, to think hard about what they can do,
and you know to support initiatives that, for example, try
(13:59):
to relocalize our food systems, which is part of a bigger,
longer term shift that I think we need in response
to the multiple crises, not just this specific one, that
are growing over time as we run into planetary boundaries
and resource depletion issues. So you know, buying from your
local grower, butcher or farmers market, if you're not spending
(14:22):
money on food that was trucked from christ Church or
Auckland or wherever the distribution centers are to the supermarkets,
then that shortens the chain and supports local growers who
can then support our communities better in times like this.
You've said combining your trips carpools to work if you
can't work from home, even if it's only a day
(14:42):
a week, that's twenty percent reduction on your commuting fuel
bill and you know fuel use should I say, talk
to your neighbors. You know, we know that communities that
cooperate and who talk to each other do better in
a crisis. There was the example in the christ Church
earthquakes of the community in Littlington which had the time
(15:02):
bank going. And you know there's things around that that
can be set up do you have. You know, as
I said, maybe a month or so. It's worth a feel.
Now it's time to think and prepare and get some
of these ideas out there and socialized and get people
moving on this stuff so that when the actual crisis arrives,
which we can see on the horizon, then we've actually
made some steps positively now to adjust. And then at
(15:27):
the individual level, you know, plant some more seeds, make
sure you've got some water stored. I mean, you know,
the steps people can take. It's really interesting.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
Again, sorry, I was just going to say it's really
interesting you say that because I popped down to mind
at Teens today to grab a few more punnets and ludacs,
and somebody said to me, ah, yes, we've had a
lot of people coming in and restocking their veggie gardens
and things, and you know, getting ready for the increase
in cost of food prices and things because of the
petrol So I think'rebsolutely right on that one. Nathan, surrender
(16:00):
and thank you very much for your time. Nathan is
the chair of the Wise Response Society and an engineering consultant.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
For more from the Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin, listen
live to News Talks at B from nine am Sunday,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
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