July 4, 2026 • 9 mins
This week on The Sunday Panel, host of The Prosperity Project podcast, Nadine Higgins, and Coast’s Lorna Riley joined in on a discussion about the following issues of the day - and more!
Liam Dann from the New Zealand Herald says we need compulsory KiwiSaver and National and Labour have to work together to devise a bipartisan solution. What do we make of this? Is making KiwiSaver compulsory an issue for those on lower incomes? How can we get better at saving money?
The All Blacks had their first match in Christchurch's new One NZ Stadium. What did we think of this? How cool did the stadium look?
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sunday Session podcast with Francesca Rudgin
from News Talks AB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Time for the panel and today I'm joined by host
of the Prosperity Project podcast Nadine Higgins. Good morning, Good morning,
and also coasts Laura Ryley. Good morning, Launa, Kyoda. I
would love to start with Liam Dan's opinion piece on
bipartisan Kei we Saver. I think that cane we say
is something that we really all. It's been the elephant
(00:33):
of the room for so long. We need to deal
with it. He is making the caller that he really
wants labor to get on boards a week and just
approach us in a bipartisan manner. Nadine, I'm going to
come to you first. Are New Zealander's good savers? Do
we need to move to compulsory key we saver?
Speaker 3 (00:53):
No, we're not good savers. Historically we've actually had a
net negative savings rate in that we're generally spending more
than we're earning on mass. But kee we Saver is
this fantastic idea, and people like the idea of it.
They're in the scheme. But I think the statistic is
around thirty percent of adults in the scheme are not contributing,
(01:17):
So being in the scheme is not enough to solve
our retirement problem. We actually have to be contributing, and
so I think Liam makes a really good point that
we do need to consider compulsion. And it's not simple
because obviously the reason that thirty percent of adults in
the scheme aren't contributing isn't because they can't be bothered. Well,
(01:38):
some of them maybe, but it's more likely to be
that at the moment they've got another place that dollar
needs to go more urgently. So there'll have to be
some thought into how you require it to be compulsory
without making people poorer in the here and now than
they currently are. But ultimately we need to be saving
(02:00):
for the future, and if we don't do that by choice,
then maybe we need to be encouraged along with a
little bit of stick, because we say has had carrot.
You know, there are reasons to contribute that make it worthwhile,
but that's not enough to get everyone who needs to
be saving for their future actually doing it.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Do you think compulsory is what's going to help us all?
Save Lorna?
Speaker 4 (02:26):
Yeah, when you look at the stats as Nadine says,
we have a terrible track record I being left to
our own devices, and we've failed miserably. So I do
think compulsion is the way we're going. I don't think
it is the only answer. It's sort of another political
hot potato, along with capital gains tax and perhaps means
testing of superannuation that we really need to look at.
(02:47):
I love the idea of the baby boost where babies
are automatically enrolled. There's wonderful ideas that parents will happily
invest in this kei we saver account for their own children,
But you know, I think that might be a little
bit of wishful thinking. But I do. I do believe
in the compulsory superannuation. I like the idea. I think
(03:10):
it was the Retirement Commission that proposed sort of a
sidecar account which might leave up to three thousand dollars
for people if they have a hardship issue that they
can withdraw without too much difficulty and then build it
up again. But yeah, I think that is definitely the
way we're going.
Speaker 3 (03:24):
Because Lorna think we should great, no go, I was
just going to say, I think we actually there to
go further than that with the bipartisan approach. It shouldn't
just be for key, we say, but we actually need
a bipartisan approach to retirement in general. I've actually an
opinion piece today that is about we need to solve
(03:46):
the cost of superannuation, which at the moment, you know,
there's four working people for every retiree, and every retiree
is currently entitled to the full pension no matter how
much they earn and how much they have in assets.
But give that thirty years and it's going to be.
Speaker 4 (04:04):
Two to one.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
Every working person is going to be supporting two people
in retirement on a full pension. Unsustainable, not sustainable, And
I know that politicians to date have treated it like
a sacred cow, but it just can't be the only
way you can argue we can afford it is if
you are willing to sacrifice literally spending on anything else.
(04:28):
Our health system, our education system, the infrastructure. And I
just can't imagine why people would stay in this country
if you were, you know, twenty years old today and looking.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
At what you're going to be paying for.
Speaker 3 (04:41):
Yes, yes, in thirty years time, there will be nothing
left for you. So here's I think we need to
take compulsion seriously, but we also need to take what
we are going to do about the pension seriously.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
Okay, yeah, yeap, No, Well I know, well said here's
so here's the fact. We know what labor's going to say.
We're going to say, hang on. There are a lot
of people and this is going to put a huge
pressure on their lives. They can't afford to be paying,
especially if we're putting it up to twelve. They can't
be affording that. The compulsion isn't going to work for them.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
Are there.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
I suppose are there triggers? There are there other ways?
Or are the policy that we can instigate to help
people out along the way who may be struggling but
are still within the scheme, do you think, Knittine?
Speaker 3 (05:27):
I think Laurena made a really good point about the
sidecar savings. I've also written in the past about exactly
how difficult it is to get your KEI saver out.
People think, well, that's my money, and if I need it,
I can call on it. But you basically have to
be going bankrupt before you can access that money. And
even you know when you're ill, if you are not
kind of within twelve months of carking it. You can't
(05:48):
get access to that money, and so I do think
that we have to encourage another form within keiwisaver of
having an emergency fund, because that actually makes the difference
to people not going into much more damaging forms of
debt when something n ex expected happens. But they need
to be able to access it without having to be,
(06:11):
you know, the creditors banging down their doors. So that
might be one way. At the sidecast saving is what
they've called it. There might need to be some sort
of interim measure that helps smooth the impact of rising contributions.
I guess we have to have a debate about the
pace that those contributions go up, but ultimately there probably
(06:35):
will have to be some short term paying for some
long term gain.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
What about you, Laura, if you were advising, you know,
we would we would like to sort of move forward
with this in a bipartisan manner. Do you think the
Labor Party would has a leg to send on when
they when they start talking about it's not going to
benefit everybody, it's going to you know, or do we
all just have to accept we have to we have
to take that short term pain.
Speaker 4 (06:57):
I do think we have to accept it. And you
could argue that the low income people who are going
to find this tough, although it will be a graduated
introduction if it happens, but they are the ones who
stand to gain most from it. I mean, there are
other things that I do slightly worry about. The compulsory
employer contributions over the age of sixty five. I'm wondering
(07:18):
if that might harm the employment chances for people over
the age of sixty five, who at the moment the
government doesn't have to contribute for. So there's a whole
lot of detail in it, but I do think that
labor need to accept that this is good for their
traditional constituency as well as everybody else.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
Luna, before we go, I just want to throw a
bouquet to the new stadium in christ Church one, New
Zealand stadium. Did you watch the rugby last night?
Speaker 4 (07:46):
I did watch the rugby Lakers. I'm very exciting game. Yes,
we Actually, you're right. I talked to my fiance and
I were discussing how great the stadium looks. You know,
the drone shots that looked amazing. It's so fabulous to
have a covered stadium with a retractable roof, of course,
but we were also commenting on things. I know, as
(08:07):
if the rugby wasn't exciting enough, we'll go look how
why the aisles are you can move up and down
with which possibly makes us very old, but loa, I
was extremely impressed, and I even made the comment we
should go down there for a concert or a spooks.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
It's like you're thinking of your future already. I look
at those, but I think I've only seen the stadium
in action, I think in day games. And to be
honest with you, I kind of looked at the inside
of it and when I've driven past it, and I
thought it looked great from the outside, but inside it
was quite underwhelmed. Last night though, Nadine, when it was
it went dark, was let up. They put a show on.
I was like, oh, hang on a minute, we are
(08:44):
finally this is a you know, world class standard stadium.
This is awesome.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
Yes, and all the Aucklanders would be looking at it enviously. Yes,
imagine if we had a stadium that was right in
the center of the city. And I thought it was
so cool how they set up the night market outside
so that you're turning this into a real event. It's
not just rugby, it's the market's beforehand, it's the halftime show,
you know, it's the lights. I just thought it was fantastic.
(09:15):
And I'm not a die hard rugby fan, but I
really enjoyed the spectacle.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
Yeah, no, I thought it was fantastic. Lorna and Nadine,
thank you so much for your time today. Really appreciated it.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
For more from the Sunday Session with Francesca Rudkin, listen
live to News Talks it Be from nine am Sunday,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Sunday Session podcast with Francesca Rudgin
from News Talks AB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Time for the panel and today I'm joined by host
of the Prosperity Project podcast Nadine Higgins. Good morning, Good morning,
and also coasts Laura Ryley. Good morning, Launa, Kyoda. I
would love to start with Liam Dan's opinion piece on
bipartisan Kei we Saver. I think that cane we say
is something that we really all. It's been the elephant
(00:33):
of the room for so long. We need to deal
with it. He is making the caller that he really
wants labor to get on boards a week and just
approach us in a bipartisan manner. Nadine, I'm going to
come to you first. Are New Zealander's good savers? Do
we need to move to compulsory key we saver?
Speaker 3 (00:53):
No, we're not good savers. Historically we've actually had a
net negative savings rate in that we're generally spending more
than we're earning on mass. But kee we Saver is
this fantastic idea, and people like the idea of it.
They're in the scheme. But I think the statistic is
around thirty percent of adults in the scheme are not contributing,
(01:17):
So being in the scheme is not enough to solve
our retirement problem. We actually have to be contributing, and
so I think Liam makes a really good point that
we do need to consider compulsion. And it's not simple
because obviously the reason that thirty percent of adults in
the scheme aren't contributing isn't because they can't be bothered. Well,
(01:38):
some of them maybe, but it's more likely to be
that at the moment they've got another place that dollar
needs to go more urgently. So there'll have to be
some thought into how you require it to be compulsory
without making people poorer in the here and now than
they currently are. But ultimately we need to be saving
(02:00):
for the future, and if we don't do that by choice,
then maybe we need to be encouraged along with a
little bit of stick, because we say has had carrot.
You know, there are reasons to contribute that make it worthwhile,
but that's not enough to get everyone who needs to
be saving for their future actually doing it.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Do you think compulsory is what's going to help us all?
Save Lorna?
Speaker 4 (02:26):
Yeah, when you look at the stats as Nadine says,
we have a terrible track record I being left to
our own devices, and we've failed miserably. So I do
think compulsion is the way we're going. I don't think
it is the only answer. It's sort of another political
hot potato, along with capital gains tax and perhaps means
testing of superannuation that we really need to look at.
(02:47):
I love the idea of the baby boost where babies
are automatically enrolled. There's wonderful ideas that parents will happily
invest in this kei we saver account for their own children,
But you know, I think that might be a little
bit of wishful thinking. But I do. I do believe
in the compulsory superannuation. I like the idea. I think
(03:10):
it was the Retirement Commission that proposed sort of a
sidecar account which might leave up to three thousand dollars
for people if they have a hardship issue that they
can withdraw without too much difficulty and then build it
up again. But yeah, I think that is definitely the
way we're going.
Speaker 3 (03:24):
Because Lorna think we should great, no go, I was
just going to say, I think we actually there to
go further than that with the bipartisan approach. It shouldn't
just be for key, we say, but we actually need
a bipartisan approach to retirement in general. I've actually an
opinion piece today that is about we need to solve
(03:46):
the cost of superannuation, which at the moment, you know,
there's four working people for every retiree, and every retiree
is currently entitled to the full pension no matter how
much they earn and how much they have in assets.
But give that thirty years and it's going to be.
Speaker 4 (04:04):
Two to one.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
Every working person is going to be supporting two people
in retirement on a full pension. Unsustainable, not sustainable, And
I know that politicians to date have treated it like
a sacred cow, but it just can't be the only
way you can argue we can afford it is if
you are willing to sacrifice literally spending on anything else.
(04:28):
Our health system, our education system, the infrastructure. And I
just can't imagine why people would stay in this country
if you were, you know, twenty years old today and looking.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
At what you're going to be paying for.
Speaker 3 (04:41):
Yes, yes, in thirty years time, there will be nothing
left for you. So here's I think we need to
take compulsion seriously, but we also need to take what
we are going to do about the pension seriously.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
Okay, yeah, yeap, No, Well I know, well said here's
so here's the fact. We know what labor's going to say.
We're going to say, hang on. There are a lot
of people and this is going to put a huge
pressure on their lives. They can't afford to be paying,
especially if we're putting it up to twelve. They can't
be affording that. The compulsion isn't going to work for them.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
Are there.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
I suppose are there triggers? There are there other ways?
Or are the policy that we can instigate to help
people out along the way who may be struggling but
are still within the scheme, do you think, Knittine?
Speaker 3 (05:27):
I think Laurena made a really good point about the
sidecar savings. I've also written in the past about exactly
how difficult it is to get your KEI saver out.
People think, well, that's my money, and if I need it,
I can call on it. But you basically have to
be going bankrupt before you can access that money. And
even you know when you're ill, if you are not
kind of within twelve months of carking it. You can't
(05:48):
get access to that money, and so I do think
that we have to encourage another form within keiwisaver of
having an emergency fund, because that actually makes the difference
to people not going into much more damaging forms of
debt when something n ex expected happens. But they need
to be able to access it without having to be,
(06:11):
you know, the creditors banging down their doors. So that
might be one way. At the sidecast saving is what
they've called it. There might need to be some sort
of interim measure that helps smooth the impact of rising contributions.
I guess we have to have a debate about the
pace that those contributions go up, but ultimately there probably
(06:35):
will have to be some short term paying for some
long term gain.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
What about you, Laura, if you were advising, you know,
we would we would like to sort of move forward
with this in a bipartisan manner. Do you think the
Labor Party would has a leg to send on when
they when they start talking about it's not going to
benefit everybody, it's going to you know, or do we
all just have to accept we have to we have
to take that short term pain.
Speaker 4 (06:57):
I do think we have to accept it. And you
could argue that the low income people who are going
to find this tough, although it will be a graduated
introduction if it happens, but they are the ones who
stand to gain most from it. I mean, there are
other things that I do slightly worry about. The compulsory
employer contributions over the age of sixty five. I'm wondering
(07:18):
if that might harm the employment chances for people over
the age of sixty five, who at the moment the
government doesn't have to contribute for. So there's a whole
lot of detail in it, but I do think that
labor need to accept that this is good for their
traditional constituency as well as everybody else.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
Luna, before we go, I just want to throw a
bouquet to the new stadium in christ Church one, New
Zealand stadium. Did you watch the rugby last night?
Speaker 4 (07:46):
I did watch the rugby Lakers. I'm very exciting game. Yes,
we Actually, you're right. I talked to my fiance and
I were discussing how great the stadium looks. You know,
the drone shots that looked amazing. It's so fabulous to
have a covered stadium with a retractable roof, of course,
but we were also commenting on things. I know, as
(08:07):
if the rugby wasn't exciting enough, we'll go look how
why the aisles are you can move up and down
with which possibly makes us very old, but loa, I
was extremely impressed, and I even made the comment we
should go down there for a concert or a spooks.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
It's like you're thinking of your future already. I look
at those, but I think I've only seen the stadium
in action, I think in day games. And to be
honest with you, I kind of looked at the inside
of it and when I've driven past it, and I
thought it looked great from the outside, but inside it
was quite underwhelmed. Last night though, Nadine, when it was
it went dark, was let up. They put a show on.
I was like, oh, hang on a minute, we are
(08:44):
finally this is a you know, world class standard stadium.
This is awesome.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
Yes, and all the Aucklanders would be looking at it enviously. Yes,
imagine if we had a stadium that was right in
the center of the city. And I thought it was
so cool how they set up the night market outside
so that you're turning this into a real event. It's
not just rugby, it's the market's beforehand, it's the halftime show,
you know, it's the lights. I just thought it was fantastic.
(09:15):
And I'm not a die hard rugby fan, but I
really enjoyed the spectacle.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
Yeah, no, I thought it was fantastic. Lorna and Nadine,
thank you so much for your time today. Really appreciated it.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
For more from the Sunday Session with Francesca Rudkin, listen
live to News Talks it Be from nine am Sunday,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
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