March 28, 2026 • 9 mins
This week on The Sunday Panel, broadcaster and journalist Wilhelmina O’Keefe and Newstalk ZB Wellington mornings host Nick Mills joined in on a discussion about the following issues of the day - and more!
Labour's Chris Hipkins has refused to offer up a solution to the fuel crisis, after the Government rolled out their divisive relief scheme. Do we think Labour missed a beat, especially considering we're in an election year?
Speaking of which, do we think the Government should have given everyone free public transport for a year instead of their relief package? Would this have been a better move?
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sunday Session podcast with Francesca Rudkin
from Newstalk ZEDB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
It is time for the panel and I am joined
by newstalks Z'B Wellington Morning's host Nick Mills. Good morning, Nick,
Good morning, and broadcast that and journalist will Amina Okeeth.
How are you doing, will Amina?
Speaker 3 (00:24):
Good morning.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Good to have you both with us.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Hey.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
I started the show this morning by saying that I
thought that it's election year and Labor missed trick this
week by not fronting on an issue which they claim
to be at the heart of all the decisions they're
going to make if they come into power, which is affordability.
They didn't want to talk about coming up with a
solution to the fuel crisis that we're facing. Then there
was also the COVID vaccine debacle. Does this make it
(00:46):
harder to move away from the negative legacy that we
have of Hipkins and his leadership role through COVID?
Speaker 4 (00:52):
Nick, I think that I've come up with a plan.
Their plan is to say nothing, do nothing right up
to the election and let the coalition self destruct. That's
what I think the theory is. I had Christopher Perkins
and on the show in the studio face to face
this week, and I know him reasonably well from spending
a bit of time in the studio with him over
(01:13):
the years. I thought he was I don't want to
say broken, but he's definitely beaten up. And I think
that it's just one thing after another after another, and
it feels like he needs time out, he needs a breath.
That said, yes, they did misorbeat.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Why does he feel that? I mean, I know there's
been some difficult personal issues. That's none of my business.
I'm notat interested in that, but why does he feel
that way? I mean, I don't mean to be rude,
but he's not in government, he's in opposition. It was,
you know, just a few things to address and face.
Speaker 4 (01:49):
Yeah, I considering.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
What they've been through, I'm kind of a bit perpexted
sister to how he's got that.
Speaker 4 (01:54):
Well, my take on as I'm a people's person spent
that's my job, and I kind of just got a
vibe from the minute he walked in. And we have
a good relationship. It's not antichuss to anti submiss it
don't fight, we get on well. So it just felt
like he needed time out.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
That's what I feel like, to me, oh, no, well,
fair enough, and look, we want everybody to be well,
don't we. Wilhelmina, what are your thoughts? You think they
must have beat this week?
Speaker 3 (02:23):
Yeah, definitely. I feel like when big things, big crises happen,
this is really the opportunity to really step up and
sway voters. That's when you can actually sway voters back
into the labor camp. Obviously, like you said, it's not
been a great run for him lately. Obviously part of
his job is fronting up on harder issues. But I
guess when the things start getting laid into the personal,
that's when it does really start to wear you down.
(02:44):
So I can kind of understand. I guess why he
was probably feeling a bit rough around the edges. As
soon as it gets into that personal territory, that's when
I think it becomes really really tough. I think, you know,
we kind of sort of talking about, you know, would
there be an alternative to hipkins. I don't really think
that there's a dramatically strong alternative in the wings potentially
to shake things up. I feel like the leadership is
(03:08):
just part of the equation. I think the narrative runs
a lot deeper, and that the entire party sort of
needs to redefine its approach. And I don't think putting
someone else in his position would automatically fix the underlying problem.
It could just be one in one out with the
same problems. I think they actually need to readjust their
entire strategy.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Well, that's the bigger problem that they're facing. I think
that you've hit the nail on the head. They will
the mean or it's not necessarily just what's taken place
over the last week is that there's actually no one
ready to step up and take on the role as
they'd lead the party.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
One hundred percent. I mean, if you look at the
contenders that the most obvious would probably be Karen McNulty.
He's a strong communicator, but it probably lacks the leadership experience.
Then there's maybe Megan Woods, but I think she probably
lacks a personality and the charisma required for that role.
You could consider Willow gene Prime maybe, but again the
lack of experience comes into play. And all in all,
I just don't think that their approach or their entire
(04:00):
vision would be significantly different to Higgins, So it would
just be a one in one out and sailing the
same ship expecting a different results. What is that doing
the same thing expect a different results.
Speaker 4 (04:13):
Let's look at it really, I mean, there is nobody
apart from Kieren macinoty. He says he doesn't want the job.
But you look at the I mean the carmel Sepuayani.
It just goes on and on. But I did see.
I was very impressed by a lady called Vanisha Walters
on Q and A this morning. She's a labor in
p I was really really impressed with her. She may be,
(04:35):
you know, someone that could come through. There is nobody.
There is nobody that could even replace Hipkins apart from
Karen macinady, who doesn't want the job. That would even
slightly tilt the decider.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
I didn't expect Hipkins to come up with the policy
on the fly and to come up with all the
solutions for the fuel crisis. I wanted him to sort
of maybe suggest that they were looking at it and
thinking about it and would have some suggestions to make.
Only because the thing that really irks me will I
meanor is when impis are in opposition and they just
sit there and they do performative politics there's a bit
(05:10):
of performing in the house, bit of performance performing to
the media, and they're not a lot of else is
going on behind the scenes. And I think Erica Stanford
has really stood it out in because she came into
her portfolio of education, she'd spent that time in opposition
working out what she wanted to do, how she was
going to do it, and she hit the ground running
and you start seeing the results and you go, oh, yeah,
(05:32):
that's what you should be doing in opposition. And I
think it just irked me because it felt like, no,
we're in opposition, I don't need to do any of
that work. Yeah, you know. And I don't know why
that irks me. I just I'm like, we're not paying
you to sit there and you know, throw a few
snappy questions out in the house, expect you to be
on top of all this as well.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
Oh one hundred percent. And I feel like the worst
thing is when the opposition is just dushing out criticism
after criticism after criticism without any proper solution. I feel
like it's not a great approach. It's a real missed opportunity.
And like you say, I feel like Nicholais has really,
really stepped up. I think she's dotted her eyes to tease.
And meanwhile Labour's thrown out criticisms which aren't really adding up.
(06:10):
And when you look at the criticism of how he
was talking, Capkins was talking about the government's GST tap,
the math just wasn't really mathing there, and so he
kind of came up with this big claim and didn't
really have the numbers actually to back it up, and
so it makes him look silly.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
I think, Nick, how's your public transport instead?
Speaker 4 (06:27):
Can I just add quit one there? The other king
was there was no winner in this. No, there was
no If he came out with another plan, that was
just another chance for another fight. You know what I mean,
There is no winner right now. It isn't need better
Off to say nothing, you know what I'm saying. We
don't know what's going to happen tomorrow. We know the
petrols going up, we know there isn't anything that they
could do that was going to fix the problem.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
And I suppose all we can do Nick is judge
you by how you've handled crisis in the past. And
I'm not so sure that that's good.
Speaker 5 (06:55):
That's so good for Labor that's the point I'm trying
to make right. Hate, Nick, how is you know what
I mean? How's your public transport in Wellington? Would you
jump on public transport if it was if it was free, Nick,
I hate my.
Speaker 4 (07:08):
Public transport, but I'd love to use it and get
me right. But hold on, I did some work on
this because I'm thinking about doing it as an hour tomorrow.
Do you realize that? And I'm not a mathematician, I
could get this wrong. But in twenty twenty two, I
think when the labor gun were and whenever they went
to half priced fares during all after COVID or during
COVID period, but they reckon that was costing them three
(07:29):
hundred and twenty million a year. So if we had
so if sorry, it was yes. So if we actually
went to for a full year of no fares for
public transport, the costs wouldn't be that much greater than
what they're actually what they're dishing out now to everybody.
And when you think about it, it's appealing to the
right people again, because it's people that need to use
(07:50):
the transport to get to work, to get the kids
to school, and the same thing. I would have thought
that was a more simplistic idea.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
Rather than they're targeted fifty dollars fuel.
Speaker 4 (07:59):
Yeah. Yeah, that's why I think we should be looking
at it a bit stronger.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
What about you, Wilhelmina, does it appear Look?
Speaker 3 (08:06):
Look, I have to admit I haven't really caught much
public transport locally in New Zealand since I was about
about university, which I feel shameful to admit. But the
fact of the matter is it's pretty unreliable. I feel
like the frequency at which buses arrive. I mean, I
live on the North Shore, so it is a little
bit more niggly to get over the bridge. I also
(08:27):
feel like rail is just not really a thing, whereas
whenever I go overseas public transport is the thing. It
is so reliable, you know, trains, buses every two three minutes.
So I feel like the concept of a free priduate
transport that's great, but you actually need to have the
resources and the services to be able to cater to it.
I mean, some of the busses that I also see
in the morning down the transit lane, they are full
(08:47):
to the brim. At the moment you make it free,
more people hop on board. Do we have the services
to cater to it, and that still needs to be
a reliable service too. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (08:55):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
I mean it's never going to work for everybody, is it,
But it might just also have appealed to a broad
range of people who are looking for a little bit
of help with the fuel costs well, I mean, Keith
and Nick Mills, thank you very much for your time
this morning. Appreciated.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
For more from the Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin, listen
live to News Talks a B from nine am Sunday,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Sunday Session podcast with Francesca Rudkin
from Newstalk ZEDB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
It is time for the panel and I am joined
by newstalks Z'B Wellington Morning's host Nick Mills. Good morning, Nick,
Good morning, and broadcast that and journalist will Amina Okeeth.
How are you doing, will Amina?
Speaker 3 (00:24):
Good morning.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Good to have you both with us.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Hey.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
I started the show this morning by saying that I
thought that it's election year and Labor missed trick this
week by not fronting on an issue which they claim
to be at the heart of all the decisions they're
going to make if they come into power, which is affordability.
They didn't want to talk about coming up with a
solution to the fuel crisis that we're facing. Then there
was also the COVID vaccine debacle. Does this make it
(00:46):
harder to move away from the negative legacy that we
have of Hipkins and his leadership role through COVID?
Speaker 4 (00:52):
Nick, I think that I've come up with a plan.
Their plan is to say nothing, do nothing right up
to the election and let the coalition self destruct. That's
what I think the theory is. I had Christopher Perkins
and on the show in the studio face to face
this week, and I know him reasonably well from spending
a bit of time in the studio with him over
(01:13):
the years. I thought he was I don't want to
say broken, but he's definitely beaten up. And I think
that it's just one thing after another after another, and
it feels like he needs time out, he needs a breath.
That said, yes, they did misorbeat.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Why does he feel that? I mean, I know there's
been some difficult personal issues. That's none of my business.
I'm notat interested in that, but why does he feel
that way? I mean, I don't mean to be rude,
but he's not in government, he's in opposition. It was,
you know, just a few things to address and face.
Speaker 4 (01:49):
Yeah, I considering.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
What they've been through, I'm kind of a bit perpexted
sister to how he's got that.
Speaker 4 (01:54):
Well, my take on as I'm a people's person spent
that's my job, and I kind of just got a
vibe from the minute he walked in. And we have
a good relationship. It's not antichuss to anti submiss it
don't fight, we get on well. So it just felt
like he needed time out.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
That's what I feel like, to me, oh, no, well,
fair enough, and look, we want everybody to be well,
don't we. Wilhelmina, what are your thoughts? You think they
must have beat this week?
Speaker 3 (02:23):
Yeah, definitely. I feel like when big things, big crises happen,
this is really the opportunity to really step up and
sway voters. That's when you can actually sway voters back
into the labor camp. Obviously, like you said, it's not
been a great run for him lately. Obviously part of
his job is fronting up on harder issues. But I
guess when the things start getting laid into the personal,
that's when it does really start to wear you down.
(02:44):
So I can kind of understand. I guess why he
was probably feeling a bit rough around the edges. As
soon as it gets into that personal territory, that's when
I think it becomes really really tough. I think, you know,
we kind of sort of talking about, you know, would
there be an alternative to hipkins. I don't really think
that there's a dramatically strong alternative in the wings potentially
to shake things up. I feel like the leadership is
(03:08):
just part of the equation. I think the narrative runs
a lot deeper, and that the entire party sort of
needs to redefine its approach. And I don't think putting
someone else in his position would automatically fix the underlying problem.
It could just be one in one out with the
same problems. I think they actually need to readjust their
entire strategy.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Well, that's the bigger problem that they're facing. I think
that you've hit the nail on the head. They will
the mean or it's not necessarily just what's taken place
over the last week is that there's actually no one
ready to step up and take on the role as
they'd lead the party.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
One hundred percent. I mean, if you look at the
contenders that the most obvious would probably be Karen McNulty.
He's a strong communicator, but it probably lacks the leadership experience.
Then there's maybe Megan Woods, but I think she probably
lacks a personality and the charisma required for that role.
You could consider Willow gene Prime maybe, but again the
lack of experience comes into play. And all in all,
I just don't think that their approach or their entire
(04:00):
vision would be significantly different to Higgins, So it would
just be a one in one out and sailing the
same ship expecting a different results. What is that doing
the same thing expect a different results.
Speaker 4 (04:13):
Let's look at it really, I mean, there is nobody
apart from Kieren macinoty. He says he doesn't want the job.
But you look at the I mean the carmel Sepuayani.
It just goes on and on. But I did see.
I was very impressed by a lady called Vanisha Walters
on Q and A this morning. She's a labor in
p I was really really impressed with her. She may be,
(04:35):
you know, someone that could come through. There is nobody.
There is nobody that could even replace Hipkins apart from
Karen macinady, who doesn't want the job. That would even
slightly tilt the decider.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
I didn't expect Hipkins to come up with the policy
on the fly and to come up with all the
solutions for the fuel crisis. I wanted him to sort
of maybe suggest that they were looking at it and
thinking about it and would have some suggestions to make.
Only because the thing that really irks me will I
meanor is when impis are in opposition and they just
sit there and they do performative politics there's a bit
(05:10):
of performing in the house, bit of performance performing to
the media, and they're not a lot of else is
going on behind the scenes. And I think Erica Stanford
has really stood it out in because she came into
her portfolio of education, she'd spent that time in opposition
working out what she wanted to do, how she was
going to do it, and she hit the ground running
and you start seeing the results and you go, oh, yeah,
(05:32):
that's what you should be doing in opposition. And I
think it just irked me because it felt like, no,
we're in opposition, I don't need to do any of
that work. Yeah, you know. And I don't know why
that irks me. I just I'm like, we're not paying
you to sit there and you know, throw a few
snappy questions out in the house, expect you to be
on top of all this as well.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
Oh one hundred percent. And I feel like the worst
thing is when the opposition is just dushing out criticism
after criticism after criticism without any proper solution. I feel
like it's not a great approach. It's a real missed opportunity.
And like you say, I feel like Nicholais has really,
really stepped up. I think she's dotted her eyes to tease.
And meanwhile Labour's thrown out criticisms which aren't really adding up.
(06:10):
And when you look at the criticism of how he
was talking, Capkins was talking about the government's GST tap,
the math just wasn't really mathing there, and so he
kind of came up with this big claim and didn't
really have the numbers actually to back it up, and
so it makes him look silly.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
I think, Nick, how's your public transport instead?
Speaker 4 (06:27):
Can I just add quit one there? The other king
was there was no winner in this. No, there was
no If he came out with another plan, that was
just another chance for another fight. You know what I mean,
There is no winner right now. It isn't need better
Off to say nothing, you know what I'm saying. We
don't know what's going to happen tomorrow. We know the
petrols going up, we know there isn't anything that they
could do that was going to fix the problem.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
And I suppose all we can do Nick is judge
you by how you've handled crisis in the past. And
I'm not so sure that that's good.
Speaker 5 (06:55):
That's so good for Labor that's the point I'm trying
to make right. Hate, Nick, how is you know what
I mean? How's your public transport in Wellington? Would you
jump on public transport if it was if it was free, Nick,
I hate my.
Speaker 4 (07:08):
Public transport, but I'd love to use it and get
me right. But hold on, I did some work on
this because I'm thinking about doing it as an hour tomorrow.
Do you realize that? And I'm not a mathematician, I
could get this wrong. But in twenty twenty two, I
think when the labor gun were and whenever they went
to half priced fares during all after COVID or during
COVID period, but they reckon that was costing them three
(07:29):
hundred and twenty million a year. So if we had
so if sorry, it was yes. So if we actually
went to for a full year of no fares for
public transport, the costs wouldn't be that much greater than
what they're actually what they're dishing out now to everybody.
And when you think about it, it's appealing to the
right people again, because it's people that need to use
(07:50):
the transport to get to work, to get the kids
to school, and the same thing. I would have thought
that was a more simplistic idea.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
Rather than they're targeted fifty dollars fuel.
Speaker 4 (07:59):
Yeah. Yeah, that's why I think we should be looking
at it a bit stronger.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
What about you, Wilhelmina, does it appear Look?
Speaker 3 (08:06):
Look, I have to admit I haven't really caught much
public transport locally in New Zealand since I was about
about university, which I feel shameful to admit. But the
fact of the matter is it's pretty unreliable. I feel
like the frequency at which buses arrive. I mean, I
live on the North Shore, so it is a little
bit more niggly to get over the bridge. I also
(08:27):
feel like rail is just not really a thing, whereas
whenever I go overseas public transport is the thing. It
is so reliable, you know, trains, buses every two three minutes.
So I feel like the concept of a free priduate
transport that's great, but you actually need to have the
resources and the services to be able to cater to it.
I mean, some of the busses that I also see
in the morning down the transit lane, they are full
(08:47):
to the brim. At the moment you make it free,
more people hop on board. Do we have the services
to cater to it, and that still needs to be
a reliable service too. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (08:55):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
I mean it's never going to work for everybody, is it,
But it might just also have appealed to a broad
range of people who are looking for a little bit
of help with the fuel costs well, I mean, Keith
and Nick Mills, thank you very much for your time
this morning. Appreciated.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
For more from the Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin, listen
live to News Talks a B from nine am Sunday,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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