August 15, 2026 • 9 mins
This week on the Sunday Panel, broadcaster and journalist Wilhelmina O'Keefe and Resident Economist at Opes Partners, Ed McKnight, joined in on a discussion about the following issues of the day - and more!
Luxon managed to survive another leadership challenge last week. But what could this saga mean for the National Party 12 weeks ahead of the election? Will this hurt their chances at getting another term?
The Meta glasses have sparked concerns about the privacy levels we can expect when we're out in public. How do we feel about the potential of these glasses and people unknowingly being recorded? To what extent do we expect your privacy to be protected?
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sunday Session podcast with Francesca Rudkin
from News Talks EDB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
It is time for the panel and this morning I'm
joined by broadcaster and journalist Wilhelmina O'Keeffe. Good morning, Good morning,
also joining us resident economists at Ope, his partners Ed
mcnight high ed.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
Get A, Francisca, nice to be here, Love.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
You to have you both with us. Will Amina, can
I start with you? How damaging do you think this
week has been for Luxin and maybe the National Party
as a whole heading into an election. Yeah, one hundred percent.
Speaker 4 (00:34):
I sort of feel like we've lived about a thousand
years in this new cycle, so I can only imagine
how National.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Feels at the moment.
Speaker 4 (00:40):
I think that it's been really damaging for Luxen personally.
Obviously he had the confidence vote back in April. The
second one now just reinforces this idea that his on
care because has really been questioning whether he's the right person.
And of course this is an unprecedented thing that's happened here.
I think though, for the party as a whole, I
(01:00):
think that the damage to National's probably slightly more contained
than it is the personal damage for Luxen. The party's polling,
it's remained pretty resilient, which suggests that National could actually
be more popular than its leader, which obviously means it's
pretty dicey for Luxen. So perhaps the focus moving forward
into the election is just about partying. Sorry, pardon my goodness.
(01:23):
I think the campaigning that's the word for me, campaigning
as a team, as a whole team, as opposed to
just voting for the leader.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
I think they prefer to be partying Wilhelmina.
Speaker 4 (01:35):
Some reason that word just discussing.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
No, no, you're just you're just charging to the end,
don't you. You're charging to the evening of November seventh.
How do they move forward from it and limit the damage?
Do you think?
Speaker 3 (01:46):
Ed Well, I think the main thing is they have
to stop all of the leaks and they've got to
get really right behind them. I actually think Luson's done
an okay job and trying to fend off some of
the media questions because obviously everyone wants to know what
was happening in that caucus room, who voted for who,
And there's going to be quite a few questions, I
think for the next couple of days, and I think
(02:07):
he's doing quite a good job at fending those questions
off and trying to limit the oxygen within this story.
But now the National MPs have to get him behind him,
stop the leaking, express one hundred percent confidence in him.
And if they don't do that, then I think Chris
Hipkins is going to be able to point at the
National Party MPs and say they think that we're in disarray,
(02:28):
but look at those jokers over there.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
I think you're right ed. They need to very quickly
switch up this general election from being a referendum on
Christopher Luxe in to being a referendum on what National
has delivered. Right, You've got to move on from the
discussion about the leader, and everyone needs to be looking outward.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
Oh, one hundred percent. I went and saw Erica Stanford
speak the other day in her capacity as Education Minister,
and I thought she had some really good points and
some interesting things to say about the increase and achievement. Now,
of course they're going to say that, right, they're going
to come out there and say that they inherited a
mess and that they're improving things. But from listening to her,
(03:06):
it's like, okay, it sounds like you've got a convincing
story to tell. But if we're all sitting here talking
about Christopher Luxeen and if he's going to get rolled
directly after and who's really behind him and who had
the knifes out, well, then we're not going to hear
what they want to get across.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
So well, I mean that the importance here is that
as Ed was saying, they look unified, they don't not
pretend to be unified. You actually have to be unified.
Bishop of course has spoken to the media. Eric Stanford,
isn't being quite so available to just knock these questions
off once and for all. Is she doing herself any
favors with the way she has acted since the failed coup?
Speaker 4 (03:43):
Yeah? Look, I think that she's damaged herself somewhat, mainly because,
like you say, of just how she's handled the speculation
as a whole. I think what I was really surprised
about is obviously she has come out afterwards after this
caucus meeting saying that Luxein had always had her full support,
But why didn't she say it when it actually mattered
in that moment before the caucus meeting, Which sort of
(04:04):
leaves that to interpretations either she was considering a challenge
and backed away, or she wasn't but handled the politics
poorly enough to make everything everybody think that she actually was.
So I think her best move now is to just
stop talking about the leadership altogether become one of Luxein's
sort of most visible effective lieutenants or one of his
(04:24):
strongest supporters, which ironically, I actually think is the best
way to protect her own leadership prospects, because if National
ends up losing in November, the leadership question will always
answer itself, and Stanford can just legitimately put her head
into the ring and come forward because obviously at the
polls it just wasn't strong enough to get over the line,
and his leadership wasn't strong enough. But if National wins,
(04:45):
she still remains on his good side, still one of
his highest profile ministers, and then potentially down the track
a future leader. So she's got to play it really
carefully now, but if she does, she'll put herself in
a good position.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
Either of you think that Chris Penk acted on his
own No, No, I.
Speaker 4 (05:03):
Think he's a scapegoat. Skapegoat is what I'm thank you.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
Let's talk about the metaglasses, because they seem to be
popping up a lot more when it comes to just
articles about it, but also looking at crime which is
taking place, and we're seeing that people are sort of
being convicted of filming people in places and things like
that when they're not aware that it's happening. What level
(05:31):
of privacy do you expect when you are out in
the public head.
Speaker 3 (05:37):
Well, it depends where you are, right So if I'm
in the gym changing room, I expect quite a lot
of privacy, even though it's in a public place, because
I'm getting my kit off and neither I nor anybody
else wants to see that. But if I'm out on
the gym floor, I expect less privacy, and there'll be
people with their phones out filming themselves for social media
or so that they can correct their form. And if
(05:58):
I'm in the background of their shot, well it's a
public place, all good, so it is a little bit situational.
It also depends on like whether you're just in the
background of you know, somebody taking a photo at the
beach of the scenery, and if I'm in the background,
well I don't expect much privacy. But if they've got
their phone out specifically filming me. Then I think that's
(06:19):
a bit weird. I'd be like, well, that's that's quite odd.
I wouldn't expect somebody to do that.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
Here's the thing you're talking about, someone holding up a
phone and making it obvious they're filming. What if they're
wearing a pair of these glasses that can film you,
and you have they are hiding the fact that they're
filming you. They're not making it, you know, like I
wouldn't even really, they're not making it obvious that they're
filming you.
Speaker 4 (06:43):
I see.
Speaker 3 (06:44):
I think that.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
I think that's still. That's sort of another like if
you see someone's got their phone up in there filming themselves,
I just duck behind them at the gym, get out
of the way, you know what I mean. It's like
I'm getting out of here as far as I possble can.
But that's obvious and you can see that, and their
intention is clear. But when if someone's wearing a pair
of you know, ninety nine dollars, you know, the glasses
that they got from Kmart that enables them to film
(07:05):
you without making it clear that they're actually sitting there
filming everyone, that just feels creepy.
Speaker 3 (07:09):
To me, Yeah, I think that's a fair point. That's
where I reckon that gyms and polls should probably put
some specific rules in place that maybe you should, like,
there's no good reason somebody should have metaglasses on in
a changing room, right, So I think it'd be fair
to say we're not going to have those, we're going
to ban those from certain areas. But on the gym floor,
(07:30):
you've got less expectation of privacy, so you just don't
have them.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
Do you feel comfortable about them?
Speaker 3 (07:36):
Will?
Speaker 2 (07:37):
No, not at all.
Speaker 4 (07:38):
I just think that they are another tool for potentially
creepy people with bad intentions to do creepy things with
bad intentions. Look, as a journalist, I've obviously been out
in public spaces filming in public spaces, But like you say,
the difference is is people can see the cameras. If
they feel uncomfortable about being in that shot, they can
come up and say, hey, look can you not film me?
Speaker 2 (07:59):
All good, no.
Speaker 4 (08:00):
Problem, because obviously it's legal to film in a public place,
but to actually record someone and not have them know that,
to me, it's legally it feels like a very gray
area because you legally can't record people or record a
conversation or record an interaction without both parties knowing that
you're recording. I just think it's weird. And I know
(08:21):
that some people have said that, you know, the glasses
should have a red light that turns on that it's recording.
But look, even if you've got a small red light
on a pair of glasses, you know you're on your
own world. Sometimes when you're walking along the street, you're
not actually paying attention to the tiny little light on
the top left hand corner of a pair of glasses.
I just think it's yuck.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
It just it gives me that one of them does
have a little light on them. They have tiny lights,
but they're like tiny little I think one's a tiny
little blue light. It's not like it's flashing going high act.
It's just you need a.
Speaker 4 (08:49):
Big red arrow being like, hey, there's some dude filming you.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
They come attacked with a tiara that has sort of
fairy lights on it that flash or something like that.
I don't have to wear a high viz.
Speaker 4 (09:03):
That makes sense.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
We've solved this was very easy. Want to men o'keethan
id McKnight, thank you so much for being with us.
Really appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
For more from the Sunday Session with Francesca Rudkin, listen
live to news talks it'd be from nine am Sunday,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Sunday Session podcast with Francesca Rudkin
from News Talks EDB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
It is time for the panel and this morning I'm
joined by broadcaster and journalist Wilhelmina O'Keeffe. Good morning, Good morning,
also joining us resident economists at Ope, his partners Ed
mcnight high ed.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
Get A, Francisca, nice to be here, Love.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
You to have you both with us. Will Amina, can
I start with you? How damaging do you think this
week has been for Luxin and maybe the National Party
as a whole heading into an election. Yeah, one hundred percent.
Speaker 4 (00:34):
I sort of feel like we've lived about a thousand
years in this new cycle, so I can only imagine
how National.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Feels at the moment.
Speaker 4 (00:40):
I think that it's been really damaging for Luxen personally.
Obviously he had the confidence vote back in April. The
second one now just reinforces this idea that his on
care because has really been questioning whether he's the right person.
And of course this is an unprecedented thing that's happened here.
I think though, for the party as a whole, I
(01:00):
think that the damage to National's probably slightly more contained
than it is the personal damage for Luxen. The party's polling,
it's remained pretty resilient, which suggests that National could actually
be more popular than its leader, which obviously means it's
pretty dicey for Luxen. So perhaps the focus moving forward
into the election is just about partying. Sorry, pardon my goodness.
(01:23):
I think the campaigning that's the word for me, campaigning
as a team, as a whole team, as opposed to
just voting for the leader.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
I think they prefer to be partying Wilhelmina.
Speaker 4 (01:35):
Some reason that word just discussing.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
No, no, you're just you're just charging to the end,
don't you. You're charging to the evening of November seventh.
How do they move forward from it and limit the damage?
Do you think?
Speaker 3 (01:46):
Ed Well, I think the main thing is they have
to stop all of the leaks and they've got to
get really right behind them. I actually think Luson's done
an okay job and trying to fend off some of
the media questions because obviously everyone wants to know what
was happening in that caucus room, who voted for who,
And there's going to be quite a few questions, I
think for the next couple of days, and I think
(02:07):
he's doing quite a good job at fending those questions
off and trying to limit the oxygen within this story.
But now the National MPs have to get him behind him,
stop the leaking, express one hundred percent confidence in him.
And if they don't do that, then I think Chris
Hipkins is going to be able to point at the
National Party MPs and say they think that we're in disarray,
(02:28):
but look at those jokers over there.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
I think you're right ed. They need to very quickly
switch up this general election from being a referendum on
Christopher Luxe in to being a referendum on what National
has delivered. Right, You've got to move on from the
discussion about the leader, and everyone needs to be looking outward.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
Oh, one hundred percent. I went and saw Erica Stanford
speak the other day in her capacity as Education Minister,
and I thought she had some really good points and
some interesting things to say about the increase and achievement. Now,
of course they're going to say that, right, they're going
to come out there and say that they inherited a
mess and that they're improving things. But from listening to her,
(03:06):
it's like, okay, it sounds like you've got a convincing
story to tell. But if we're all sitting here talking
about Christopher Luxeen and if he's going to get rolled
directly after and who's really behind him and who had
the knifes out, well, then we're not going to hear
what they want to get across.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
So well, I mean that the importance here is that
as Ed was saying, they look unified, they don't not
pretend to be unified. You actually have to be unified.
Bishop of course has spoken to the media. Eric Stanford,
isn't being quite so available to just knock these questions
off once and for all. Is she doing herself any
favors with the way she has acted since the failed coup?
Speaker 4 (03:43):
Yeah? Look, I think that she's damaged herself somewhat, mainly because,
like you say, of just how she's handled the speculation
as a whole. I think what I was really surprised
about is obviously she has come out afterwards after this
caucus meeting saying that Luxein had always had her full support,
But why didn't she say it when it actually mattered
in that moment before the caucus meeting, Which sort of
(04:04):
leaves that to interpretations either she was considering a challenge
and backed away, or she wasn't but handled the politics
poorly enough to make everything everybody think that she actually was.
So I think her best move now is to just
stop talking about the leadership altogether become one of Luxein's
sort of most visible effective lieutenants or one of his
(04:24):
strongest supporters, which ironically, I actually think is the best
way to protect her own leadership prospects, because if National
ends up losing in November, the leadership question will always
answer itself, and Stanford can just legitimately put her head
into the ring and come forward because obviously at the
polls it just wasn't strong enough to get over the line,
and his leadership wasn't strong enough. But if National wins,
(04:45):
she still remains on his good side, still one of
his highest profile ministers, and then potentially down the track
a future leader. So she's got to play it really
carefully now, but if she does, she'll put herself in
a good position.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
Either of you think that Chris Penk acted on his
own No, No, I.
Speaker 4 (05:03):
Think he's a scapegoat. Skapegoat is what I'm thank you.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
Let's talk about the metaglasses, because they seem to be
popping up a lot more when it comes to just
articles about it, but also looking at crime which is
taking place, and we're seeing that people are sort of
being convicted of filming people in places and things like
that when they're not aware that it's happening. What level
(05:31):
of privacy do you expect when you are out in
the public head.
Speaker 3 (05:37):
Well, it depends where you are, right So if I'm
in the gym changing room, I expect quite a lot
of privacy, even though it's in a public place, because
I'm getting my kit off and neither I nor anybody
else wants to see that. But if I'm out on
the gym floor, I expect less privacy, and there'll be
people with their phones out filming themselves for social media
or so that they can correct their form. And if
(05:58):
I'm in the background of their shot, well it's a
public place, all good, so it is a little bit situational.
It also depends on like whether you're just in the
background of you know, somebody taking a photo at the
beach of the scenery, and if I'm in the background,
well I don't expect much privacy. But if they've got
their phone out specifically filming me. Then I think that's
(06:19):
a bit weird. I'd be like, well, that's that's quite odd.
I wouldn't expect somebody to do that.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
Here's the thing you're talking about, someone holding up a
phone and making it obvious they're filming. What if they're
wearing a pair of these glasses that can film you,
and you have they are hiding the fact that they're
filming you. They're not making it, you know, like I
wouldn't even really, they're not making it obvious that they're
filming you.
Speaker 4 (06:43):
I see.
Speaker 3 (06:44):
I think that.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
I think that's still. That's sort of another like if
you see someone's got their phone up in there filming themselves,
I just duck behind them at the gym, get out
of the way, you know what I mean. It's like
I'm getting out of here as far as I possble can.
But that's obvious and you can see that, and their
intention is clear. But when if someone's wearing a pair
of you know, ninety nine dollars, you know, the glasses
that they got from Kmart that enables them to film
(07:05):
you without making it clear that they're actually sitting there
filming everyone, that just feels creepy.
Speaker 3 (07:09):
To me, Yeah, I think that's a fair point. That's
where I reckon that gyms and polls should probably put
some specific rules in place that maybe you should, like,
there's no good reason somebody should have metaglasses on in
a changing room, right, So I think it'd be fair
to say we're not going to have those, we're going
to ban those from certain areas. But on the gym floor,
(07:30):
you've got less expectation of privacy, so you just don't
have them.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
Do you feel comfortable about them?
Speaker 3 (07:36):
Will?
Speaker 2 (07:37):
No, not at all.
Speaker 4 (07:38):
I just think that they are another tool for potentially
creepy people with bad intentions to do creepy things with
bad intentions. Look, as a journalist, I've obviously been out
in public spaces filming in public spaces, But like you say,
the difference is is people can see the cameras. If
they feel uncomfortable about being in that shot, they can
come up and say, hey, look can you not film me?
Speaker 2 (07:59):
All good, no.
Speaker 4 (08:00):
Problem, because obviously it's legal to film in a public place,
but to actually record someone and not have them know that,
to me, it's legally it feels like a very gray
area because you legally can't record people or record a
conversation or record an interaction without both parties knowing that
you're recording. I just think it's weird. And I know
(08:21):
that some people have said that, you know, the glasses
should have a red light that turns on that it's recording.
But look, even if you've got a small red light
on a pair of glasses, you know you're on your
own world. Sometimes when you're walking along the street, you're
not actually paying attention to the tiny little light on
the top left hand corner of a pair of glasses.
I just think it's yuck.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
It just it gives me that one of them does
have a little light on them. They have tiny lights,
but they're like tiny little I think one's a tiny
little blue light. It's not like it's flashing going high act.
It's just you need a.
Speaker 4 (08:49):
Big red arrow being like, hey, there's some dude filming you.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
They come attacked with a tiara that has sort of
fairy lights on it that flash or something like that.
I don't have to wear a high viz.
Speaker 4 (09:03):
That makes sense.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
We've solved this was very easy. Want to men o'keethan
id McKnight, thank you so much for being with us.
Really appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
For more from the Sunday Session with Francesca Rudkin, listen
live to news talks it'd be from nine am Sunday,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
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