May 2, 2026 • 10 mins
This week on The Sunday Panel, broadcaster and journalist Wilhelmina O’Keefe and Resident Economist at Opes Partners, Ed McKnight, joined in on a discussion about the following issues of the day - and more!
ACT has recently revealed their new immigration policy - what do we think? Is this going to attract the right people to New Zealand? A lot of what ACT is talking about here is just about enforcing existing laws - have we been too soft in the past?
There's been disagreements in the coalition this week - do we see them lasting until the election? Is Winston Peters trying to get one over Chris Luxon?
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sunday Session podcast with Francesca Rudkin
from News Talks.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
EDB and it is time for the panel and today
I am joined by broadcaster and journalist Wilhelmina o'keith. Good morning, Wilhelmina,
good morning, and resident economists at op's partners.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Ed McKnight, Hi, ed get A, Francisca.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Okay, So, Wilhemina, we had ACT announce its immigration policy today.
Anything stand out to you? What were your initial thoughts? Yeah,
initial thoughts.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
I think it addresses their concerns around, you know, pressures
on our infrastructure and welfare system. But I wondered whether
or not it was the right approach for success long term.
Obviously having those restrictions, especially with access to welfare and
not having access to HEFEY for that first five years.
It'll probably attract self sufficient, sort of economically motivated migrants,
(00:55):
people who are confident that they won't need state support.
But on the flip side, it could actually deter talent
in the transitional stages. So that's the likes of you know,
young professionals, entrepreneurs, people chaining careers are people who value
that security in those early days and could actually end
up bringing longer term value to our economy. So I
think we kind of need to ask thisself as a question,
(01:17):
do we want people to come in for an immediate
economic impact or do we want people to come in
for that kind of longer term nation building, because in
that support early on I think could maybe be counterproductive.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
But that's really interesting, Wilhelmina, because we do have two
problems to solve. We've got an immediate problem to solve,
which might be have we got enough workers, have we
got the right people? We need the impact that's having
on infrastructure, but you can't. Immigration is never in a silo.
It relates to absolutely everything else, from infrastructure to education,
to how our house system's coping, to all sorts of things.
And you do need to have a long term population
(01:51):
policy in a sense, don't you one.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
Hundred percent and being able to address those concerns early on. Obviously,
we are in a period of economic stress at the moment,
so we do need that kind of little sugar hat
and the right people right now to help boast us,
but also thinking about the long term as well, not
just being shortsighted. I think it's really important to be
able to give people the tools they need to potentially
grow into a role and grow into a career and
(02:14):
a lifestyle that really benefits us down the track.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
What were your thoughts, yed Well.
Speaker 4 (02:19):
I agree around this welfare change in saying that you
can't get welfare for the first five years. I take
a slightly different view to Willelmina in that I don't
think any skilled migrant worth their soult would actually care
about not being able to get welfare. I wouldn't have
thought that it would be too much of a deterrent,
just because if you're coming in here, surely you've got
(02:39):
to be able to look out after yourself for the
first five years. The thing that I was more interested
in and tend to get some more details about, but
I couldn't find them online, was having stricter English language requirements. Now,
this is specifically for people who are coming in on
employer work fezas, but it kind of depends how strict
we're talking, right, because there are a number of good
(02:59):
New Zealanders who actually don't speak English particularly well. I
think about my own parents in law. They migrated here
about thirty over thirty years ago from Korea, but they're English,
isn't that great? But they're still wonderful New Zealanders who
have always supported themselves add a lot to their community
because they've got a tight knit Korean community, and Okay,
(03:20):
it doesn't really matter that they're English. Isn't that great?
I know that in Auckland we have a similar set
up around some of our Chinese New Zealanders who live
in a Chinese based community might not speak particularly good English,
but hey, they're still great New Zealanders. So I'm can
you see some more details about that?
Speaker 2 (03:36):
It feels a reaction to a lot of anecdotal stories,
it doesn't it, And you get them from both sides,
just like you've got your story. But then I sort
of feel like politicians are off. I mean, you know,
someone said to me or someone said this to me,
and it just feels anecdotal as opposed to maybe someone
having a looking at the evidence of how it might
(03:56):
be impacting our productivity.
Speaker 4 (03:58):
Well, I just think it would probably surprise people how
varied and diverse New Zealand is actually in different pockets, right,
I mean if we think about how Wick in Auckland,
over fifty percent of residents there are Chinese, So that's
going to be a very different demographic, and what's normal
on Howick is going to be very different from what's
(04:19):
normal in the west coast of the South Island for instance.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
Absolutely. What did you think about the infrastructure charge? So
you would be charging you know, if you have a
temporary work visa you're coming into do a job, you
would also be charged. You're paying tax already and you're
also been charged six dollars per day to cover infrastructure.
It's kind of a way of they call it, sort
of balancing things out a little bit, that you're contributing
(04:43):
to the impact on infrastructure. I couldn't quite work out
how long that would last. I didn't know whether what
point you said, Okay, you've ticked the box and contributed.
How does that sit with you?
Speaker 1 (04:54):
Wilhelmina.
Speaker 3 (04:55):
Yeah, look on the surface, you know, six dollars a day,
it doesn't seem like too much, but it obviously adds
up over time. So I would be interested to know
in terms of what the parameters are. Is there is
there a minimum, you know, could it just be a
one off payment something along those lines. I can see
the merit in it. I was just so much pressure
on our infrastructure as it stands. You know, there are
(05:16):
things going on, but they're taking a long time to
get off the ground or be completed. So I can understand,
and that is obviously a main concern for so many people.
But I think there needs to be eventually a limitation.
Right as you say that, it adds up over time,
so surely there should be a fit out of fairness,
a cap on that as well.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
I sort of feel that whenever we're going into an
election year, one of the effective way for politicians to
get people's attention is to say we're to take a
hard line on something. We're going to take a hard
line on gangs and crime, and we're going to take
a hard line on this. And in a way, I
think that's what actors doing here. They're saying, actually, we're
going to tighten up the laws that are already in place.
(05:55):
We are not you know, we're going to deal with
the overstayers. We're going to take a title line there.
We're going to you know, take a title line on
the English. We're going to you know, deport serious things.
We're just going to take a time. But no one
I still couldn't quite understand who the right people were,
who we were looking for, who we're looking for long term?
How do we deal with this issue we have in
(06:16):
New Zealand whereby we have a declining population, low fertility rates,
we've got an aging population. We need people to be
paying tax so we can afford superannuation and our health
system because of the burgeoning sort of aging crisis we're
heading into. At the same time, we don't want too
much immigration because then that is putting more pressure on
(06:37):
the infrastructure, in our health and things that we currently have.
There's this balance you have to fit and I don't
see any thoughtfulness really from any politicians because they only
want to deal with a three year cycle.
Speaker 4 (06:48):
And I suppose the other issue that you have when
it comes to politicians is they don't like throwing goals
out there because then they know they're going to be
held to them. And I think you're dead right that
we don't have Well, what does the balance look like?
It's very easy to say that we don't currently have
the right balance. It is far far, far more to
dificult to come out and say this is what the
(07:09):
right balance looks like, which is actually why a few
years ago I thought Paula Bennett had it really right
when she came out and said, Hey, I think that
Auckland needs to plan for being a population of two
and a half million. That's going to be our goal.
And I know some people are like, oh, what a
terrible goal to have, but I admired her for putting
a goal out there. The one thing I'd just say
about that six dollars a day infrastructure charge is it
(07:30):
actually struck me as quite high. About two two hundred
dollars a year that we're going to lump on people
coming in. It seemed quite high. And the reason I
was surprised was AX meant to be the party of
low taxes and here you are wanting to levy what
is effectively a tax on new immigrants.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Okay, I'm going to move on very quickly. I'm rung
out of time a little bit here. I'd love to
talk to you about Winston and the Prime Minister, because
I don't think there's anyone that thinks that Winston accidentally
leaked those emails that didn't make the Prime minister look great. Wilhelmina,
do you think the coalition is going to last out
the term?
Speaker 3 (08:06):
Look? I think a lot of opposition parties a obviously
clearly gearing up for the fact that they won't. I
was watching the news last night and there were sound
bites from every person under the Son who was already
door knocking and anticipation of it. I think it will
probably last, but it's not going to be cohesive. It's
more transactional and obviously Winston Peters is playing his own
(08:26):
game while Luxon tries to hold it together. We saw
that challenge of power, particularly over the last week when
Luxon went down to level seven of the Bee Hive
to speak to Winston as opposed to actually calling him
up to the night floor as prime ministers in the
past have done so. So there's a real kind of
challenge of the power. But it's very clearly lesser united government.
It's more three parties campaigning while still in power, and
(08:50):
Luxon I think, just looks like he's managing, not leading
at the moment, and Winston will always operate as both
insider and an outsider at the same time, because I.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
Actually think that luck has done a pretty good job
of keeping the coalition together to date. What would you
do with Winston Peters?
Speaker 4 (09:06):
Oh God, that's so so far ahead of a pay grade.
I no, I've got no idea. I think, to be honest,
I think Winston Peters would be running loops around me
and running circles around me, and I'd have no idea
what I was doing, because he's a wily old guy.
The one thing I'd say is I think that the
coalition probably will last to the November election. The reason
(09:28):
I think that is that both National and New Zealand
First have an incentive to keep it together. Winston's doing
so well in the polls, He's got momentum behind him.
I would imagine that he's hoping that that's going to
continue up into election day, and so the longer he
can hold on, then perhaps he'll rise even further in
the polls. For Nationale, I think they would want to
(09:48):
hold on as well, because if the coalition falls over,
then they can't rarely lay go out to the voters
and actually look them in the eye and say we're
going to come back with New Zealand First again and
we're going to be able to keep it together this
time right. So if they don't make it to the election,
I think that voters will really question whether the coalition
(10:08):
could continue for another three years.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
Wilhelmina o'keith, ed McKnight, Enjoy the rest of your Sunday.
Thank you so much for your time today.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
For more from the Sunday Session with Francesca Rudkin, listen
live to News Talks it Be from nine am Sunday,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Sunday Session podcast with Francesca Rudkin
from News Talks.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
EDB and it is time for the panel and today
I am joined by broadcaster and journalist Wilhelmina o'keith. Good morning, Wilhelmina,
good morning, and resident economists at op's partners.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Ed McKnight, Hi, ed get A, Francisca.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Okay, So, Wilhemina, we had ACT announce its immigration policy today.
Anything stand out to you? What were your initial thoughts? Yeah,
initial thoughts.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
I think it addresses their concerns around, you know, pressures
on our infrastructure and welfare system. But I wondered whether
or not it was the right approach for success long term.
Obviously having those restrictions, especially with access to welfare and
not having access to HEFEY for that first five years.
It'll probably attract self sufficient, sort of economically motivated migrants,
(00:55):
people who are confident that they won't need state support.
But on the flip side, it could actually deter talent
in the transitional stages. So that's the likes of you know,
young professionals, entrepreneurs, people chaining careers are people who value
that security in those early days and could actually end
up bringing longer term value to our economy. So I
think we kind of need to ask thisself as a question,
(01:17):
do we want people to come in for an immediate
economic impact or do we want people to come in
for that kind of longer term nation building, because in
that support early on I think could maybe be counterproductive.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
But that's really interesting, Wilhelmina, because we do have two
problems to solve. We've got an immediate problem to solve,
which might be have we got enough workers, have we
got the right people? We need the impact that's having
on infrastructure, but you can't. Immigration is never in a silo.
It relates to absolutely everything else, from infrastructure to education,
to how our house system's coping, to all sorts of things.
And you do need to have a long term population
(01:51):
policy in a sense, don't you one.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
Hundred percent and being able to address those concerns early on. Obviously,
we are in a period of economic stress at the moment,
so we do need that kind of little sugar hat
and the right people right now to help boast us,
but also thinking about the long term as well, not
just being shortsighted. I think it's really important to be
able to give people the tools they need to potentially
grow into a role and grow into a career and
(02:14):
a lifestyle that really benefits us down the track.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
What were your thoughts, yed Well.
Speaker 4 (02:19):
I agree around this welfare change in saying that you
can't get welfare for the first five years. I take
a slightly different view to Willelmina in that I don't
think any skilled migrant worth their soult would actually care
about not being able to get welfare. I wouldn't have
thought that it would be too much of a deterrent,
just because if you're coming in here, surely you've got
(02:39):
to be able to look out after yourself for the
first five years. The thing that I was more interested
in and tend to get some more details about, but
I couldn't find them online, was having stricter English language requirements. Now,
this is specifically for people who are coming in on
employer work fezas, but it kind of depends how strict
we're talking, right, because there are a number of good
(02:59):
New Zealanders who actually don't speak English particularly well. I
think about my own parents in law. They migrated here
about thirty over thirty years ago from Korea, but they're English,
isn't that great? But they're still wonderful New Zealanders who
have always supported themselves add a lot to their community
because they've got a tight knit Korean community, and Okay,
(03:20):
it doesn't really matter that they're English. Isn't that great?
I know that in Auckland we have a similar set
up around some of our Chinese New Zealanders who live
in a Chinese based community might not speak particularly good English,
but hey, they're still great New Zealanders. So I'm can
you see some more details about that?
Speaker 2 (03:36):
It feels a reaction to a lot of anecdotal stories,
it doesn't it, And you get them from both sides,
just like you've got your story. But then I sort
of feel like politicians are off. I mean, you know,
someone said to me or someone said this to me,
and it just feels anecdotal as opposed to maybe someone
having a looking at the evidence of how it might
(03:56):
be impacting our productivity.
Speaker 4 (03:58):
Well, I just think it would probably surprise people how
varied and diverse New Zealand is actually in different pockets, right,
I mean if we think about how Wick in Auckland,
over fifty percent of residents there are Chinese, So that's
going to be a very different demographic, and what's normal
on Howick is going to be very different from what's
(04:19):
normal in the west coast of the South Island for instance.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
Absolutely. What did you think about the infrastructure charge? So
you would be charging you know, if you have a
temporary work visa you're coming into do a job, you
would also be charged. You're paying tax already and you're
also been charged six dollars per day to cover infrastructure.
It's kind of a way of they call it, sort
of balancing things out a little bit, that you're contributing
(04:43):
to the impact on infrastructure. I couldn't quite work out
how long that would last. I didn't know whether what
point you said, Okay, you've ticked the box and contributed.
How does that sit with you?
Speaker 1 (04:54):
Wilhelmina.
Speaker 3 (04:55):
Yeah, look on the surface, you know, six dollars a day,
it doesn't seem like too much, but it obviously adds
up over time. So I would be interested to know
in terms of what the parameters are. Is there is
there a minimum, you know, could it just be a
one off payment something along those lines. I can see
the merit in it. I was just so much pressure
on our infrastructure as it stands. You know, there are
(05:16):
things going on, but they're taking a long time to
get off the ground or be completed. So I can understand,
and that is obviously a main concern for so many people.
But I think there needs to be eventually a limitation.
Right as you say that, it adds up over time,
so surely there should be a fit out of fairness,
a cap on that as well.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
I sort of feel that whenever we're going into an
election year, one of the effective way for politicians to
get people's attention is to say we're to take a
hard line on something. We're going to take a hard
line on gangs and crime, and we're going to take
a hard line on this. And in a way, I
think that's what actors doing here. They're saying, actually, we're
going to tighten up the laws that are already in place.
(05:55):
We are not you know, we're going to deal with
the overstayers. We're going to take a title line there.
We're going to you know, take a title line on
the English. We're going to you know, deport serious things.
We're just going to take a time. But no one
I still couldn't quite understand who the right people were,
who we were looking for, who we're looking for long term?
How do we deal with this issue we have in
(06:16):
New Zealand whereby we have a declining population, low fertility rates,
we've got an aging population. We need people to be
paying tax so we can afford superannuation and our health
system because of the burgeoning sort of aging crisis we're
heading into. At the same time, we don't want too
much immigration because then that is putting more pressure on
(06:37):
the infrastructure, in our health and things that we currently have.
There's this balance you have to fit and I don't
see any thoughtfulness really from any politicians because they only
want to deal with a three year cycle.
Speaker 4 (06:48):
And I suppose the other issue that you have when
it comes to politicians is they don't like throwing goals
out there because then they know they're going to be
held to them. And I think you're dead right that
we don't have Well, what does the balance look like?
It's very easy to say that we don't currently have
the right balance. It is far far, far more to
dificult to come out and say this is what the
(07:09):
right balance looks like, which is actually why a few
years ago I thought Paula Bennett had it really right
when she came out and said, Hey, I think that
Auckland needs to plan for being a population of two
and a half million. That's going to be our goal.
And I know some people are like, oh, what a
terrible goal to have, but I admired her for putting
a goal out there. The one thing I'd just say
about that six dollars a day infrastructure charge is it
(07:30):
actually struck me as quite high. About two two hundred
dollars a year that we're going to lump on people
coming in. It seemed quite high. And the reason I
was surprised was AX meant to be the party of
low taxes and here you are wanting to levy what
is effectively a tax on new immigrants.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Okay, I'm going to move on very quickly. I'm rung
out of time a little bit here. I'd love to
talk to you about Winston and the Prime Minister, because
I don't think there's anyone that thinks that Winston accidentally
leaked those emails that didn't make the Prime minister look great. Wilhelmina,
do you think the coalition is going to last out
the term?
Speaker 3 (08:06):
Look? I think a lot of opposition parties a obviously
clearly gearing up for the fact that they won't. I
was watching the news last night and there were sound
bites from every person under the Son who was already
door knocking and anticipation of it. I think it will
probably last, but it's not going to be cohesive. It's
more transactional and obviously Winston Peters is playing his own
(08:26):
game while Luxon tries to hold it together. We saw
that challenge of power, particularly over the last week when
Luxon went down to level seven of the Bee Hive
to speak to Winston as opposed to actually calling him
up to the night floor as prime ministers in the
past have done so. So there's a real kind of
challenge of the power. But it's very clearly lesser united government.
It's more three parties campaigning while still in power, and
(08:50):
Luxon I think, just looks like he's managing, not leading
at the moment, and Winston will always operate as both
insider and an outsider at the same time, because I.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
Actually think that luck has done a pretty good job
of keeping the coalition together to date. What would you
do with Winston Peters?
Speaker 4 (09:06):
Oh God, that's so so far ahead of a pay grade.
I no, I've got no idea. I think, to be honest,
I think Winston Peters would be running loops around me
and running circles around me, and I'd have no idea
what I was doing, because he's a wily old guy.
The one thing I'd say is I think that the
coalition probably will last to the November election. The reason
(09:28):
I think that is that both National and New Zealand
First have an incentive to keep it together. Winston's doing
so well in the polls, He's got momentum behind him.
I would imagine that he's hoping that that's going to
continue up into election day, and so the longer he
can hold on, then perhaps he'll rise even further in
the polls. For Nationale, I think they would want to
(09:48):
hold on as well, because if the coalition falls over,
then they can't rarely lay go out to the voters
and actually look them in the eye and say we're
going to come back with New Zealand First again and
we're going to be able to keep it together this
time right. So if they don't make it to the election,
I think that voters will really question whether the coalition
(10:08):
could continue for another three years.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
Wilhelmina o'keith, ed McKnight, Enjoy the rest of your Sunday.
Thank you so much for your time today.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
For more from the Sunday Session with Francesca Rudkin, listen
live to News Talks it Be from nine am Sunday,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
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