April 12, 2026 • 40 mins
At this stage it's probably more common than not to have some kind of wearable tracker to track your steps, heart rate, and the one we're discussing today - sleep.
They give you data showing how long you've slept, how much time you spent in each of the sleep stages, and some will even provide you with your heart rate variability and how much sleep you'll need based on your stats for the day.
But are the really as useful as they seem? Or do they provide the every day person with too much insight to stress over?
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks.
Be you want to danceing my hands, sing my head,
you dance a chairs cheers.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Only if you got a nuts I feel.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Let's welcome back, So the Weekend Collective Welcome in or
welcome back. And this I'm Tim Beverage. By the way,
if you have just joined us eight hundred eighty ten
eighty my email Tim be at News Talks, he beat
at Curtain and Z. This is the Health Hub where, well,
as obviously suggested by the title, we talked about all
sorts of we talk about all sorts of issues regarding
your health and well being. Anyway, today look hands up,
(00:51):
who does Obviously it's radio, so I mean the metaphorically
hands up, who doesn't have a wearable And when I
mean a wearable a watch that's measuring your pulse or
a ring or something else, because I actually do wonder
these days whether it's possibly more common than not these
days that people would have some kind of wearable tracker
which tracks your steps, your heart rate, and possibly even
(01:15):
the one or including the one where we're going to
discuss today, which is sleep, because they give your data
showing how long you've slept, or how long it's thinks
you've slept. I'm not sure how reliable my wine is
gives me the jest, I think how much time you
spent in each of the sleep stages? Oh, it gives
me that the ram what is it? The deep sleep,
the rem the lights sleep, and then awake I call
(01:35):
awake not a sleep stage. But maybe I'll dig into
that in just a moment. And some will even provide
you what now, this is the one I'm asking for
a friend, I might say in quotation marks heart rate variability.
You set the standard and it tells you whether you're
a bit out of whack and whether perhaps you're a
bit stressed. So anyway, are they as useful as they seem?
(01:56):
Or you know, do they provide the do they provide
the everyday person with either you know, too much insight
to stress over? Or sometimes, as I would say from myself,
sometimes I've thought I haven't had such a great night sleep,
and my watchers said, oh, he had a great night sleep,
and I'm like, oh, well, good stuff, I'll crack on
with to day. Then the other night last night, actually,
be honest, I had quite a long sleep. But then
(02:17):
it said, oh, your heart rate variability. You might be
feeling a bit, you know, but out of whack today.
I was like, oh God, damn it. Anyway, So any
questions you have about sleep, we want to hear from
you on eight hundred eighty ten eighty text nine two
ninety two. Now before I introduce my guest, who won't
be a surprise to many of you. By the way,
we do find with this hour, and I often say
(02:39):
this and some people pay attention to it, that we
often get quite busy towards the end of it because
people are sitting back and listening, and then they suddenly go,
hang on a minute, I want I've got a question here,
and when we run out of time, So if you've
got a question, jump on the blower on eight hundred
and eighty ten eighty and joining me to discuss these
these issues around getting a good night's sleep. He is
(03:00):
the director of Sleep Weld Clinic. His name is Alex Bartel.
And how'd you sleep last night?
Speaker 3 (03:10):
She pretty well, I did week, but I got back
to sleep. That's the key, being able to get back
sleep when you wake.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
I was saying too off here that you because we've
we've spoken quite a few times on the show, but
you're sort of like, yeah, you are the guy that
you don't come to me in my dreams. You'll be
lucky to know.
Speaker 3 (03:29):
So you're going to be a nightmare.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
But if I wake up in the middle of the night,
I've literally had a time I was lying there, I
was going and I thought about something. I can feel
the pulse rate creeping up. I'm like, oh God, I'm
not how they're going to get this. And then I thought,
what would Alex say. Alex would probably say, what if
you're thinking about something and I was thinking about a
book I was reading, you would say, get up and
read for twenty minutes and a half an hour. So
I did do that. I still struggled to get to
(03:53):
sleep again, but I got back to sleep, and but
there was what would Alex do?
Speaker 3 (03:58):
Frightening?
Speaker 4 (03:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
I mean it's a very emotional time of the night
when we wake up and we can't get back sleep,
you know, stress, panic, and then you can't sleep.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
Usually why is it I call it? It's not my
own words, you know, middle of the night when the
demons come, And that does sound very dark, but there
is a sort of time when you are more likely
to be intruded upon by negative thoughts, and because I
sometimes find that just being on my feet, you know,
(04:27):
and going to the lou even it's just like, oh,
take a breath of air. What was I feeling so
anxious about?
Speaker 3 (04:33):
That's exactly right, and that's why the importance of if
you can't sleep, we're becoming really anxious, then do get
out of bed, even if it's only for ten to
fifteen minutes. You don't need to get up with it.
And as you say, Tim, just getting them go to
the loo is often enough to just break that feeling
of anxiety and stress and panic.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
Now wearables, yes you, I mean you would be no
stranger to wearables. You possibly. I used to have one
of those rings, didn't you. I?
Speaker 3 (04:59):
Yes, I did. I don't know any longer, but I
used to. Of the they're probably the more act your
type rather than risk bace monitors. But nearly everybody I see,
not everybody, but a good proportion will be wearing these devices,
so we're not going to get rid of them. They're there.
How useful are is actually the debatable.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
I would say, because it does have sleep stages it
talks about, and it does seem to generally get it right.
But I know there's been and this is again I
think Alex would disagree with you said constantly there now,
but they and you've mentioned this on the show before
that people say I woke up and I was awake
all night, and I remember you saying, chances are you weren't.
(05:42):
You have your mind you think you were, but you're
probably asleep for a lot of that.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
Yeah, there's a huge thing called sleep state misperception, which
is you know, when you think you've been awake all night,
whereas in fact you've been drifting and out of sleep,
and that's that will tell you a bit like the
one you said you mentioned earlier where you thought you'd
had a terrible night but actually you slept recently. Well,
the problem is exactly what you say, is that it
has that emotional impact on either way. You know, either
it's a good tool, great, I must be feeling better,
(06:10):
or god, you know, I feel not too bad, but
that was a terrible night sleep, so oh I must
be feeling awful.
Speaker 5 (06:16):
Well.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
See. The one that's I found interested interesting is I've
done a little bit of googling about it, as as
you do. Is heart rate variability so when you get
a wearable or it measures and it's the difference, but
it's the slight variability in your heart rate and milliseconds,
and that it works out a standard over two to
four weeks or something, and it doesn't give you a
(06:38):
reading until it's worked out what your standard is, and
then it'll tell you whether you know I got a
low one today, I've got one that says, you know,
you've you've probably under a bit of stress. Funnily enough,
I have been. And I was bloody annoyed that my
watch knew it, but I had had a good sleep
and then I saw it. It says, oh, well, just
take it easy today, Tim. I'm like, what do you mean?
I mean, I can tell you what it says my
(06:59):
training status is strained, and my HRV status it says,
last night's HIV was within your usual range. Well, intil
I hang on a minute, what do you mean? Maybe
it wasn't as bad as I thought. Okay, as it were,
but the night before it was it was. It just
(07:21):
shows the span and it was at the low end
of it. It wasn't out of Whackretz is what is that?
What is that to.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
Do with what's called the autonomic nervous system, which is
stress and relaxation. So stress it's, as you say, the
beat to beat variability, So from one beat to another
is usually not quite the same. Yeah, if you fearly published,
you'll think it's the same. So it's so minimally different.
But if you're very stressed, it's going to be exactly
the same or almost exactly the same. If you're very relaxed,
(07:50):
it's going to there's going to be more variability in
your heart rate. So that's what it's measuring, so to
measure whether you're relaxed or whether you're stressed exactly. So
the problem is, and you've illustrated that twice now in
a meeting, that it is dictating how you feel, and
you're responding to it sort of how do you feel?
Don't look at your watch and ask you watch what
(08:11):
you how are you feeling? How do you feel?
Speaker 1 (08:12):
One funny thing is I did feel. I actually managed
to go back to sleep, and I think that extra
hour of sleep was the change that made the change.
But actually the other way around, because I woke up
one morning I thought, oh I do feel but short
of sleep, and then it said, wow, you had a
fantastic night sleep. You're in such a good space right now.
Speaker 3 (08:32):
And I was like, WHOA, yeah, I know, but again
it dictated how you felt. That's what I'm trying to
get to. So either good or bad. That it's actually
telling you how you should feel is instead of actually
feeling yourself, saying how I should feel.
Speaker 5 (08:45):
Now.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
Don't get me wrong, there are some very valuable things
that happened with these watches. I get a number of
people who come in and say, my watcher told me
my oxygen levels are dropping at night, and which that
may mean they've got sleep at near.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
That's the model up from mine, I think. Actually, because
there are different types.
Speaker 3 (09:03):
Absolutely absolutely, yeah, basic ones on heart a variability movement
and temperature, and because overnight your internal temperature drops and
your skin can temperature. Me go up, but you call
what it temperature drops and you need to do that.
It's what happens with melotonin, for example.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
I'm telling myself that really only i'd really only pay
attention to something and be concerned if I saw a
trend that suddenly changed, Because it's one thing for a
device to go, oh you had a bit of a
bad night sleeping, Me go well, that's bollocks. I slipped
like a baby. But if it started giving me a few,
I don't know what it would give me actually, But
luckily it does have a button you can click and
it will give you a quick summary and it generally says, look,
(09:40):
you know you're a bit that's don't worry too much
about it. Just good take it easy.
Speaker 3 (09:44):
I'm pleased to hear that I don't have one.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
When you had an aura ring ing, yeah, oh you
are Ah, yeah, what's the story with that? When why
did you wear it? And then why did you stop
wearing it?
Speaker 3 (09:58):
I couldn't be bothered, to be honest, because I knew
how I was feeling and yeah, so it was really
interesting because we were we had them available in facts,
still do have them available at the clinic. And the
nice thing about with a watch if you wake in
the middle of the night, people tend to look at
a watch, and we don't want people to be clockwatching
all the time. Also, it's measuring on the back of
(10:18):
your wrist, which is not where the pulse rate is.
The pulses are elcho on the front of your wrist,
whereas the awring is actually mentioned in the finger. Now
there are digital arteries going down both sides of your finger,
so it is measuring actually blood pulse rate much more accurately.
So I think it is a bit more accurate, but
it's not as accurate as what we're using these days,
which is called a song fit pro or a song
(10:40):
fit study, which is actually a thing you may on
your head and instead of measuring Surrey gets asleep, i e.
Things like our variability, movement and temperature and what have you.
It's measuring directly measuring brain waves, so it will tell
you exactly what's happening over night, So it is much
more accurate.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
Just tell us about that heart rate variability, though, what
do we What do science say about what that helpful?
Speaker 3 (11:03):
It says, If it's exactly the same heart rate, there
is no heart very variability, they're exactly the same. You're stressed.
If it's a little bit more variable, then you're more relaxed.
So that's really what it's. It's just measuring the parasympathetic
and the sympathetic of system activities.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
So let's be simple. Let's go simply. If you have
sixty beats a minute, and so it's you expect a
heartbeat every second, but in reality, there's probably half of
a tenth of a second or a tenth of a
tenth of the second where it will be different, And
it's the variability from it's the range to beat the
longest wait.
Speaker 3 (11:37):
Yeah, from beat to beat, beat to beat to beat
to beat. They're not exactly the same.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:43):
If they're exactly the same, you're stressed. If they're not
exactly the same, then you're more relaxed.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
And there's a there's a happy zone for that.
Speaker 3 (11:48):
Yeah, I mean that's right. Well, I mean when you
want to go to bed or go to sleep, you
want to be in the relaxed pace obviously. So so
that'll tell you, you know, you're very stressed and you
didn't sleep very well.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
Okay, I've got lots I can quiz Alex on, but
we're going to take your calls. I wait one hundred
eight eighty, and I can tell me how many times
I think of Alex when I've got an issue with
my sleep. It's like, they don't check your watch for time,
and I think that's because Alex told me that. And
then I have this thing of like, do you think
(12:19):
in mind if I check my watch because I'm thinking
of the time now, and Alex would probably say, look,
just bloody check the watch then if you're thinking about.
Speaker 3 (12:26):
It, if it's there, you want to check it, that's
the problem.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
I wait one hundred eighty ten eighty. Ever, you've got
any questions around getting a good night's sleep, then we'd
love to hear from you, and Alex is here to
take your cause and let's kick it off with Pete.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
Hello, Alex, h good thing.
Speaker 6 (12:44):
Yeah, I've got one of those flesh course more streets.
Speaker 7 (12:47):
What are you.
Speaker 6 (12:50):
Looking at your watch right?
Speaker 3 (12:52):
Well, it's not no, I mean you tend to use it.
Of course, a lot of people use it for the
measuring their steps and there how much care as they've
used up during the day. But when you usual for
sleep then it's not really quite so useful. But you know,
people do it and sometimes it's helpful, but much of
the time it's more e genders more stress than you need.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
Have you got one? Have you paid?
Speaker 5 (13:13):
No?
Speaker 6 (13:14):
I haven't.
Speaker 7 (13:14):
I just been.
Speaker 6 (13:15):
We had a home and garden show here this week
in here and you plum up. They're all very good
and they had the two different companies selling all these
you know these Splash Beach and the other ones that
goes up and your feet goes up. I've got another
a total near replacement done, and the other ankle I
came off a roof when I was working for riffing.
(13:35):
Coming back to the younger day, isn't it me trouble now?
And they want to fuse I don't want to do that,
And I must have met. I spent, must be I
was trying to the firm one soft ones and these
ones from mess and they've had these foam and might
have heard are those ones?
Speaker 3 (13:55):
I mean, I mean, there's a lot of talk about
the type of mattress you needed, but it's very individual.
And what I always say is probably in eighty five
ninety percent of the population sleep on a hard mattress
on the floor. It's only we softies in the Western
world that actually need these lovely soft mattresses. But it
does help if it's nice.
Speaker 6 (14:15):
Yeah, I must have met. I tried and they had
various sperm and soft ones of springs, some of out springs,
and an hour and a half he never sold me nothing.
It's there all these details and the price there was
any special, you know, But I must admit though he
did try, and he put the back up, and he
did put the feet up, yeah, and then he put
(14:36):
it down down. You feel, I feel? But what's the
story If you sleep this on a normal mattress, you know, flats,
and you do go that way and you sleep with
the back up a little bit and you feed up
a little bit, And does that really help you sleep
a lot?
Speaker 3 (14:53):
Or is it just you know, we're designed really to sleep.
We're designed to sleep horizontally in fact, so you know,
sleeping with your head up a little bit. People do
that if they've got some snoring and sleep hapening. It
makes it slightly less, but the don't sleep quite as well.
If you've got some specific disorder, like you've got very
low blood blood pressure or whatever, then putting your feet
(15:14):
up might help a little bit. But we sleep horizontally,
is how we designed to sleep.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
Mattresses a great ripoff on people on the west. Should
we all be sleeping on a hard floor?
Speaker 3 (15:23):
Well, it's interesting, isn't it that. I mean, people do
manage to sleep in all sorts of situations, and we
tend to like to get soft and perhaps not too
hard these days. Except I got someone recently who's you know,
sleeping on footon all the time, and if that which
tends to be harder, of course yea, but yeah, no,
so it's in the individual. It's partly also what you
(15:45):
used to. I mean, many places in India and China
and whatever you have been sleeping on the floor of
their lives. So that's all they know.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
I think that's the question, because that's all you know.
But if there are better ways, It's like, you know,
there are all sorts of things we did when we're promotive,
but we've improved them with science. And I do wonder
with you know, those what are those incredibly expensive mattresses
sort of center And I'm like, well, do you sleep
better on those? Or do you just can? Because people
surely make do just for a nice, you know, ordinary mattress.
(16:13):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (16:14):
Well, I mean, it's it's nice to have a good, good, soft,
comfortable mattress, but it's not essential.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
And of course, you know, there are a lot of
couples as the years both go by, they're quite keen
not to have too much roll together from there, what
were the old are the old wire wove?
Speaker 3 (16:28):
Yes, goodness, yes, closest sleeping in a hambit and theo's
are sides of the bed. You know, we do advocate
slightly bigger beds these days so that you have your
own space within the bed, because in my early days
of marriage we have a double bed and children would
sleep in single beds. I don't think any single beds
sold these days. They're all super kings or.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
While I was even thinking about my girls, I mean
we've slipped in single beds as kids, but most most kids,
everyone's got the queen size. Just I guess it's so
you can throw them out, so you can put them
on the couch when you have guests. That's our plan.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
Okay, Okay, well that's a good, good, good thinking.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
Yeah, tell you what. We'll come back and with more calls.
One hundred and eighty ten eighty. You got any questions
for Alex Bartle. We've been talking about wearables, which are
the watches and the rings and things that give you
data and whether they're any use. But any questions you've got,
I'm gonna I've got a couple of questions about Booze.
I'm going to get onto as well. And when it
does or doesn't work for helping you to good night's sleep,
I can see Alex bristling with enthusiasm for that one. Well,
(17:26):
it's twenty three and a half past four News Talk
zaid B. Yes, we've this is the health Hub. We've
got Alex Bartell with us. He's the director of the
Sleepwill Clinic. Taking your calls. I'm getting a good night's sleep.
We started by the way that the opening context was
just discussing interpreting the data on your wearable and how
useful they are, wearable being your watch, you ring, and
(17:46):
what else. Those would be the most common ones, I
think anyway. Alex is with Joan Hello.
Speaker 7 (17:57):
Hello, Hi Jane, how are you hello? Joe here? I
haven't I don't have wearable Sony col right, can you
tell me? My doctor said eighteen months ago that I
had had a hat redbook. Can you place.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
Me?
Speaker 7 (18:17):
He's actually the practice and someone else and I don't
really know. I had last to what it means.
Speaker 3 (18:26):
A heart reboot? Did you say?
Speaker 5 (18:28):
M right?
Speaker 3 (18:30):
I'm not actually a cardiologist, but it sounds as if
she had a cardio version, which is they give you
a bit of a zapp at the heart and he
gets it back into a normal rhythm again.
Speaker 7 (18:39):
Ah okay, yeah, why is having trouble sleeping? I was no,
I was. I was told, yeah, but it's a bit
awkward because I'm not sure what I'm actually trying to explain.
He said, I was very latty at m Okay, because
don't happen too many people.
Speaker 3 (19:01):
Okay, as long as it doesn't affect you sleep too much, okay, Okay, yeah, okay,
thank you.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
Yeah, but they're slightly off topic, I think, probably Joan.
But any questions, please get your friend to see the
doctor eighty Katrina.
Speaker 8 (19:17):
Hello, Hi, Hi afternoon, good afternoon from the beautiful Hall State.
Its beautiful right.
Speaker 5 (19:25):
Now, but is it?
Speaker 1 (19:26):
How is the weather over there?
Speaker 8 (19:27):
You're right, Oh, it's just starting to ramp up a little.
With I'm not on the coast. I'm sort of Hastings City,
so yeah, just this strong winds, not even that much
rain here, diet, so yeah, yeah, biting my finger. I
was waiting to see what turns up. But anyway, what
(19:48):
I'm wringing about, I kind of have maybe a different
problem from a lot of people, but I'm sure I'm
not the only one. So I take medication which actually
makes me sleep really well. In fact, I struggle with
sort of oversleeping and being really drowsy in the mornings,
and I just wondered, what sort of because the medication
(20:11):
really helps, So.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
What what is it the medical What.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
Is the medication you're taking.
Speaker 7 (20:17):
Oh, I don't really.
Speaker 8 (20:18):
Want to sort of put that out there, but.
Speaker 3 (20:22):
Yeah, it's yeah, Well there are some medications you take
which will help you go to sleep, but then will
knock you out a bit the next day. That's the problem.
Speaker 8 (20:30):
So no, it's not it's not a medication for sleep.
It's a medication for something else.
Speaker 3 (20:36):
Well, if it's a bipolar disorder, for example, cautiape or
schizo epective disorder, then it's often used for sleep as
a side effect. Or if it's an anti histamine for example,
they'll be used using a side effect of the anti
histamine to help you sleep. So they're not designated really
for sleep, but they can leave you quite groggy the
next day, which is one of the problems. So unless
(20:58):
I know what medication it is, then.
Speaker 8 (21:01):
It's a type of medication.
Speaker 3 (21:03):
Okay, okay, Well, I mean that's we use those for
I think all restlessly syndrome sometimes, but as well as
sleep is concerned, well, you're obviously using it for something
else and not for sleep directly. Presumably is that right?
Speaker 9 (21:19):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (21:19):
Correct, And so I mean we would still consider the
various behavioral options for trying to get you to sleep
better as being the primary aim initially rather than relying
on medication. And if you if, if you, if the
condition that you're taking the opits for is well controlled,
well there's not much we're going to do about that.
(21:41):
But if it's not, then we need to be looking
at other medication for that. But sleep hygiene, sleep stimulus control,
what's called is still the most important thing to be
looking at.
Speaker 5 (21:53):
What is that?
Speaker 8 (21:54):
What is the control?
Speaker 3 (21:56):
It's basically bed is for sleep. In other words, if
you're not sleeping very well, you shouldn't be in bed,
So guineing up if you can't sleep, going to BID
later if you can't get it. If you go to
bed and you can't sleep, then go a bit later
rather than earlier. So if you go to bed and
you can't sleep, then get out of bed for fifteen
twenty minutes or so. So just don't just lie in
BID becoming panicky, because that means BID becomes an anxious place.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
We don't want that to happen, right, What about like,
probably don't watch TV, I'm giving that if you give up.
I mean I to point out just something that people
might think, oh, get up and watch some TV.
Speaker 3 (22:32):
Yeah, you know, scrolling and going on to your computer
in the middle of the night doesn't help. Now you
need to do something reading, writing some stuff down, what's
going on in your brain? Writing that down, externalizing stuff.
Reading is finding in some saduka, doing a little bit
of a digitual puzzle or whatever, something really bland. But
(22:52):
not screen time if possible.
Speaker 10 (22:55):
Okay, okay, good luck anyway, thank you.
Speaker 1 (22:59):
Okay, Yeah, Actually I mean that those I must say.
I've got back into reading, and it's massive difference in
terms of just settling yourself down and getting I don't
know what it does to your brain, but it just
seems to establish some sort of rhythm where you go.
After I've done a few pages, I'm like, that's so
it's time. I mean, I'm out.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
You know, usually read before bed, before I go to sleep,
and that puts me to sleep quite easily. So yeah,
it is helpful.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
I'm quite gutted when I finish a good book that
I like and I'm like, oh, I have to find
something else to get me in the mood. That's a
perennial challenge for everyone, a regular challenge. So I say, right, Joe, Hello, who.
Speaker 5 (23:39):
Oh yeah, good thing.
Speaker 10 (23:41):
Hi. I have had blood tests done and nothing's showing
up except for the fact my blood sugar is probably
a little high. It's not pre diabetic or anything, but
I have tingling feet, soles of my feet. It it's
all day and then at night of course gets worse.
So when I lay down any tips for getting a
(24:04):
better night's sleep with a sort of having to take
some drugs.
Speaker 3 (24:07):
Yeah, I mean, it sounds like it's possible to be
this restless leg syndrome, But if you're getting a lot
of tingling in your feet during the day as well,
then it's unlikely to be restless leg syndrome. It's going
to be a peripheral neuropathy, something to do with the
nerves aren't working properly at your extremities, like your feet.
Restless leg syndrome tends to only come on in the
(24:27):
evening and maybe in the middle early part of the night,
but it's usually gone in the morning.
Speaker 10 (24:32):
So I definitely sort of like there all the time
and it's not, but it gets worse when I go
to bed. So my blood sugar is a bit high,
so I'm working on that.
Speaker 3 (24:42):
Yeah, good, keep that down.
Speaker 10 (24:44):
But any tips for being able to get to sleep well, I.
Speaker 3 (24:49):
Mean stretching a little bit of movement, dummy. Do you
find the movement helps at all or does it make to.
Speaker 5 (24:55):
Move your lips?
Speaker 4 (24:56):
Yeah?
Speaker 10 (24:56):
Yeah, I do because I sort of like when they
get ting leading. Of course my feet start to get
a little bit hot as well, and then I start
moving them around, and.
Speaker 3 (25:06):
Yeah, it sounds actually what you might need to do,
see as a neurologist, to actually just test the nerve
functioning in your leagues, right, because I mean it could
be Rissly syndrome, and that's.
Speaker 10 (25:19):
I don't think it is, because it came on quite suddenly,
and I think it was just my blood sugars are
a bit high from what they have been. On the part,
it could be really working on, but it could take
quite a while for it come down. I understand, and
and for the tingling who cease. But I just wanted
if there was any ideas of.
Speaker 3 (25:40):
You know, no, I mean a long term look after
your blood sugars. Get those down, that's probably the main thing.
And if it persists, then you need to see a
neurologist and they'll do some nerve testing.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
Okay, thanks, thanks, just quick text. We've got a bunch
of calls to get to and well, march on after.
We'll take a break after this quickly. Eight hours somebody
just said as eight hours dead sleeping a fallacy or real?
Speaker 5 (26:05):
What is you know?
Speaker 1 (26:06):
Is it a modern sort of construct or what.
Speaker 3 (26:08):
It's a reundatively modern? I always look on it as
being part of the Industrial Revolution when they came up
with eight hours work, eight hours play, an eight hours sleep.
It was sort of part of that eight hours thing.
But it's a bit like the ten thousand Steps of Help.
You know, it's something that's grabbed out of the ether,
but it actually seems to work reasoningly well in the end,
as was said on the program this morning, as listening
(26:30):
to you more than six hours, anything more than six hours,
but probably not more than nine or ten hours. So
any of those as long as you feel good when
you wake up in the morning and you don't have
to keep on waking up with that alarm, which automatically
means you're not getting quite enough sleep.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
Right, We're going to take a quick moment. We're with
Alex Bartlet from sleep while Planet taking your calls on
getting a good night's sleep. We started with chatting about wearables,
but lots of questions around just you know, being able
to have that night of sleep where you can start
the day nice and fresh. What is it? What's the
best way to get on top of your sleep troubles?
Eight one hundred and eighty ten eighty. We'll be back
in just the second news talks It be news talk
(27:06):
as it bees indeed, and my guest there's Alex Bartle,
director of the Sleep Well Clinic, taking your course. Let's
keep moving ahead. Jeff, Hello, Hey guys, how are you good? Thanks?
Speaker 4 (27:17):
He I hate tragic sleep man.
Speaker 11 (27:20):
I can go to beat it tin crash out like
a zombie. But then it's lights on at three o'clock
in the morning and I'm like someone's probed me, and
I'm like super awake, ready to go.
Speaker 3 (27:31):
Well, how do you go during the rest of the day.
Do you feel good all the rest of the day
or you get tired in the afternoons, particularly.
Speaker 11 (27:38):
I stack up on vitamins and just go. But you
like to sleep more than five hours?
Speaker 3 (27:43):
Absolutely?
Speaker 10 (27:45):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (27:45):
No, No, five hours is not enough. Six hours and
more is what you need at least six hours on
a regular basis. A lot of people get less than
six hours intermittently, but it sounds like you're doing it
a lot, which is probably not idea. So bothally, your
tip really is what do you do when you wake
in the night instead of getting up for the day,
(28:07):
And the answer would be to get up just for briefly,
keep the place dark quiet, do something very quiet, but
get out of bed. Fifteen twenty minutes is all you need.
But do try and go back to sleep. You know,
we go back. Don't give up on it. In other words,
although you may not think, well, I'm not sleepy, go
back to bed anywhere and hopefully you might get back
to sleep.
Speaker 11 (28:27):
No, I've tried it multiple times and I just like
end up going back to bed and it's just like
lights on in my headay, and it's just like I'm awake.
Speaker 4 (28:34):
And then you have the I want to sleep. I
want to sleep, and it's just a waste of time.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
What about reading in the middle of the night, thought, Yeah,
you know.
Speaker 11 (28:42):
I've tried reading, going out and building something, having a mistake.
Speaker 5 (28:47):
You name it.
Speaker 3 (28:47):
Mate, sounds like you've been very active in the middle
of the night. Which of course doesn't particularly help you
go back to sleep. So doing something that's a bit boring,
like a book, orse some jigsaw puzzle or something that's
actually not very mind challenging, certainly, don't put lots of
lights on, keep the lights down, but give it a
go again. So it is really it's not enough five hours.
(29:09):
If it really is five hours that you.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
Get getting up and reading a book, ords you can
read a book and bed.
Speaker 4 (29:15):
I get up, I get up and read as well.
Speaker 11 (29:16):
Yeah, I've tried there.
Speaker 8 (29:18):
Just once I'm awake.
Speaker 4 (29:20):
It's just like I'm awake away.
Speaker 11 (29:21):
Kay, I think it was. I looked after my son
in hospital for five years, and so when ever there
was a noise, I would straight away be awake.
Speaker 4 (29:30):
Okay, what do I need to do? I think that
action is still in my mind? Does that make sense?
Speaker 3 (29:35):
I think trying some meditation techniques would probably be a
good ideas, and in mindfulness, some of those techniques, breathing
techniques can be very helpful too in the middle of
it takes a bit of a practice, I guess to
do these things because a lot of people try them
once or twice, it doesn't work very well, so they
give up. It does take practice to get you get
used to what you need to do.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
Keep, try, try and try again. I mean, I'm sorry,
there's no instant.
Speaker 3 (30:01):
No, no, there is no no obvious immediate things.
Speaker 1 (30:04):
You're quite right, Hey, thanks for you call. Jeff. Yeah,
I guess that's the thing. If he's trying lots of
different things, he's stimulating himself. Yes, I mean, is there
something in that, like just find a book, just read it.
Maybe you'll read it and you'll be up for the
rest of the day. But do it again and again
and again and again.
Speaker 3 (30:21):
And it's what I said. I think is that you know,
you try it once or twice and it doesn't work,
so you give up on it. But in fact, if
you find some techniques that we know do work, like reading,
doing something quiet, meditation, what have you, then stick with it,
give it a go over long term.
Speaker 1 (30:37):
Okay, right, let's take some more of course, Craig.
Speaker 4 (30:39):
Hello, Yeah, hi guys, Okay, yeah, interesting, just sudden to
the last course actually sort of made all orsuits me. I,
my wife and I we're like, I'm approaching sixty. My
wife is sort of somebody who likes to be a
(31:03):
sleep about ten to thirty yeah, I like to be
asleep around midnight.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
Our hours are different case, yes.
Speaker 4 (31:12):
Yeah, ours are slightly different. So from Monday to Thursday
we sleep in our own bedrooms, and then on the
weekends we sleep together. And we sleep together really well
on the weekends because we don't have that pressure of
have to get to sleep. Yeah, exactly so, and I sleep,
(31:36):
you know, actually pretty well during who are.
Speaker 1 (31:39):
Just Craig, does she go earlier or you go later?
When you're in together.
Speaker 4 (31:44):
We actually, to be honest, I tend to fall to
sleep earlier when we're like on our date nights if
you like Friday, Sunday, Sunday, those nights will we sleep
in the same bedroom because of our hours. It's like
that actually works really well. Both of us actually seem
to sleep to sleep better. But we have like we've
(32:06):
always slepped sleep in the same room for years, but
we're only in the last year or so trying to,
you know, during the middle of the week when we've
both got high intensity childs that have different hours, just
trying to take pure of each other a little bit.
Speaker 3 (32:23):
I think that sounds very sensible. In fact, you know,
the idea of sleeping together is not a is a
relatively new one. You know, for many years, people if
they could, if they could afford to always have their
own rooms. So it's a it's really a modern concept
that we need to sleep together all the time.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
So I think, you know, you're like Donald and Millennia,
but just three or four days a week foret that.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
Yeah, I don't think they have backs anyway.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
Okay, thanks, great, thank you. I don't know, sorry, I
couldn't help myself. Somebody suggested earlier. Caller says, Jeff should
just I mean, it's this, it sounds like a cheeky
sort of He says. He sleeps from ten to or three.
Somebody suggests, well, maybe Jeff should try going to bed
at nine. Maybe he'll get all the way through it's
all three.
Speaker 3 (33:34):
Yeah, Well he may not get through to three, but
if he wakes out two, one thirty or two, he's
more likely to get back to sleep than if he
wakes at three o'clock, when psychologically is thinking, maybe I'm
going to have to try and get back to sleep.
So just takes the pressure off.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
And it could be a trigger like I'm going to
go at nine to just change a mindset, you know,
because does that sometimes help you. Yeah, absolutely different messaging.
Speaker 3 (33:55):
Yeah, and that's assuming you can't go to sleep at nine,
because a lot of people who you know, go to
sleep when they're tired, and going to bed earlier is
not initially the right way thing to do. But if
he can't go to bed and go to sleep earlier,
you'll wake earlier. Probably they'd have less pressure and be
able to go back to sleep again.
Speaker 1 (34:10):
Also, Ji, if you can give me a call, you know,
on my overnights and we'll keep the company for an
hour and then you'll be like, I'm out of here anyway,
I'll tell you what. Let's go to John. Hello.
Speaker 5 (34:22):
Oh hello, I've lost my voice. I've lost my voice.
But I just have about three queries. Yeah. The first
one is I want a recommendation about a mattress. I
think mattress is very important. Can you give me the
name of a mattress?
Speaker 10 (34:40):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (34:41):
Probably not.
Speaker 5 (34:42):
No.
Speaker 3 (34:42):
I don't deal with mattress companies particularly, although I have
done talks for them occasionally. But really I think mattress
is very much a personal thing. So my advice really
is to go to a Metros shop and try them.
Lie down on the cew you feel, move around on
them if you can a little bit. Like our earlier
caller did, actually try.
Speaker 5 (35:05):
The soft mattress the best is it?
Speaker 3 (35:07):
No, not necessarily. They did a study in Spain actually
on back people with back injury. They found that ten
being very hard and one being very rather their way
around ten being very soft and one being very hard.
They found the best was about six. So it's just
slightly on the firmer side, but not too soft.
Speaker 5 (35:27):
Now, the next question, briefly is I have trouble with pillars.
So what I'm trying to say is I had to
explain No, I don't exactly have trouble with pillars. But
what I'm saying why is the pillar heats my head up.
I mean I noticed that if I sleep on a pillow,
if it's nice and cold, it's good, but when it
(35:48):
heats my I find that when I put my hair
on a pillow, my head heats up, which causes discomfort.
Speaker 3 (35:57):
Yeah, I mean both pillows and sheets and dos and
what have you try and find one that takes the
heat away. So often the synthetic ones don't do that
so well.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
So go and talk to someone in a sleep shop
as well. Just say you hate your head sleeping heating up.
That'll have some ideas and you might find that part
of it's also if you're maybe a firmer pillow where
less if your head's enveloped by it, for one would
be I don't know, I'm just making up as a goal.
Speaker 3 (36:25):
And also I mean again depends what position you like sleeping.
If it's so you know, if you're a tummy sleeper,
then you need a very low pillow. If you're a
side sleeper, then maybe a slightly higher pillow, but you
need one that will absorb the heat, which again a
pillow specialist to the shop will tell you.
Speaker 1 (36:44):
Okay, right, we'll be back, and just to take times
racing by with Alex Bartle talking about your getting a
good night's sleep. It's just about ten to five news talks.
He'd be talking sleep with Alex Bartell from Sleep Well Clinic.
Time for Squeeze and I think one more call. Sorry
if we haven't got it to all your texts, but
as I've said, it is a popular album. But we
will have Alex back of course, but it is seven
(37:05):
minutes to five. As Veronica alo, oh.
Speaker 9 (37:09):
Hello, I just wanted to know my daughter has got
a depression. And she suffers, suffer for slipping for how
many years? And they're increasing her slipping tablet. Now she's
taking four slipping tablet at night and she says she
s two can't slip called join correct.
Speaker 3 (37:30):
Yeah, it's a problem with sleeping tablets there. I mean,
they can be incredibly useful, but unfortunately people tend to
start using more and more because they become less effective.
The body gets used to them. So in the end,
you know, you start with half and you move on
to one, then two and et cetera. As your daughter has.
And unfortunately sleep disordered sleep problems are very strongly associated
(37:52):
with psychological dysfunction as well, so people with depression or
bipolo and what have you very common her sleep issues. However,
the behavioral stuff that we talk about us is still useful,
is still relevant, and so so trying to wean off
some of the medication. But what do you do instead?
That's the problem, and so that's what we function on
(38:14):
it we deal with is actually what you do instead
of taking a pill, And they're very much more effective
in the end.
Speaker 9 (38:23):
I tried it too. I tried it to her to
not to say she stipped it to now and I'm
trying to try to do exercise, do this what they
but she should ore to can't slip slip, and she
keep increasing and I'm worried about it, and i might
leave my bed a couple of years. I'm over eighteen
now and I'm worried about her.
Speaker 3 (38:44):
Yeah, well, quite right, and it's good that you are
concerned and doing something about it with your daughter. But
I think she needs some professional advice to actually see
where do I go with my sleep? Because taking more
pills isn't the answer.
Speaker 5 (38:56):
In the end.
Speaker 1 (38:57):
Yeah, I'm sorry. I'm sorry you to deal with that. Yeah,
just a couple of things. Somebody, somebody said to me.
They say, I don't mean this was respect. They say,
when I wake up at two or three o'clock, I
put on news talks. It'd be on the timer thirty minutes,
no offense, but the show puts me to sleep. Well, actually,
I think sometimes there's something in the fact that you've
(39:18):
you've just engaged for half an hour, an hour, you've
had some company, and then you switch it off and
go to sleep. Other people say, Tim, you're not helping
me sleep. I'm like, well, to be honest, that's not
really my job.
Speaker 12 (39:27):
I want you to stay out a wake as long
as possible, whatever it does, whatever works for you.
Speaker 1 (39:33):
Actually the other one, now there was something another message.
I was trying to find. Another one just says I
like to say. I like to say I deserve a
good sleep tonight, and I think it has mostly worked
over time, and I recommend the right pillow is also
most important. But actually just tell yourself I deserve a
good night's sleep.
Speaker 3 (39:52):
Good thinking. Yeah, absolutely, as far as pillows concerned, it's
the one thing that people tend to earn holiday with them.
Of course, pillows are pretty important individually for people.
Speaker 1 (40:02):
Isn't it funny that? Isn't it funny that you can't
take your mattress with it. If you could take the mattress.
Speaker 3 (40:07):
With you, you probably do that too.
Speaker 1 (40:10):
Actually, is this I sometimes wonder with kids and cuddly toys, Yeah,
how many teenagers are still get the cuddly toy that
they might have. Maybe we should all get a cuddly toy, maybe.
Speaker 3 (40:21):
Not cuddly something.
Speaker 12 (40:25):
I don't know what I'm talking about, but anyway, Hey Alex,
great to see you mate, Thank you and Kip here
and I wish all of you a good night's sleep,
but not yet because we've got another hour ago and
it's not nighttime.
Speaker 1 (40:36):
We got Andrew Bascan with us talking with us for
smart Money. This is news Talk Said. Be back shortly
for more from the weekend collective. Listen live to News
Talk Said be weekends from three pm, or follow the
podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks.
Be you want to danceing my hands, sing my head,
you dance a chairs cheers.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Only if you got a nuts I feel.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Let's welcome back, So the Weekend Collective Welcome in or
welcome back. And this I'm Tim Beverage. By the way,
if you have just joined us eight hundred eighty ten
eighty my email Tim be at News Talks, he beat
at Curtain and Z. This is the Health Hub where, well,
as obviously suggested by the title, we talked about all
sorts of we talk about all sorts of issues regarding
your health and well being. Anyway, today look hands up,
(00:51):
who does Obviously it's radio, so I mean the metaphorically
hands up, who doesn't have a wearable And when I
mean a wearable a watch that's measuring your pulse or
a ring or something else, because I actually do wonder
these days whether it's possibly more common than not these
days that people would have some kind of wearable tracker
which tracks your steps, your heart rate, and possibly even
(01:15):
the one or including the one where we're going to
discuss today, which is sleep, because they give your data
showing how long you've slept, or how long it's thinks
you've slept. I'm not sure how reliable my wine is
gives me the jest, I think how much time you
spent in each of the sleep stages? Oh, it gives
me that the ram what is it? The deep sleep,
the rem the lights sleep, and then awake I call
(01:35):
awake not a sleep stage. But maybe I'll dig into
that in just a moment. And some will even provide
you what now, this is the one I'm asking for
a friend, I might say in quotation marks heart rate variability.
You set the standard and it tells you whether you're
a bit out of whack and whether perhaps you're a
bit stressed. So anyway, are they as useful as they seem?
(01:56):
Or you know, do they provide the do they provide
the everyday person with either you know, too much insight
to stress over? Or sometimes, as I would say from myself,
sometimes I've thought I haven't had such a great night sleep,
and my watchers said, oh, he had a great night sleep,
and I'm like, oh, well, good stuff, I'll crack on
with to day. Then the other night last night, actually,
be honest, I had quite a long sleep. But then
(02:17):
it said, oh, your heart rate variability. You might be
feeling a bit, you know, but out of whack today.
I was like, oh God, damn it. Anyway, So any
questions you have about sleep, we want to hear from
you on eight hundred eighty ten eighty text nine two
ninety two. Now before I introduce my guest, who won't
be a surprise to many of you. By the way,
we do find with this hour, and I often say
(02:39):
this and some people pay attention to it, that we
often get quite busy towards the end of it because
people are sitting back and listening, and then they suddenly go,
hang on a minute, I want I've got a question here,
and when we run out of time, So if you've
got a question, jump on the blower on eight hundred
and eighty ten eighty and joining me to discuss these
these issues around getting a good night's sleep. He is
(03:00):
the director of Sleep Weld Clinic. His name is Alex Bartel.
And how'd you sleep last night?
Speaker 3 (03:10):
She pretty well, I did week, but I got back
to sleep. That's the key, being able to get back
sleep when you wake.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
I was saying too off here that you because we've
we've spoken quite a few times on the show, but
you're sort of like, yeah, you are the guy that
you don't come to me in my dreams. You'll be
lucky to know.
Speaker 3 (03:29):
So you're going to be a nightmare.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
But if I wake up in the middle of the night,
I've literally had a time I was lying there, I
was going and I thought about something. I can feel
the pulse rate creeping up. I'm like, oh God, I'm
not how they're going to get this. And then I thought,
what would Alex say. Alex would probably say, what if
you're thinking about something and I was thinking about a
book I was reading, you would say, get up and
read for twenty minutes and a half an hour. So
I did do that. I still struggled to get to
(03:53):
sleep again, but I got back to sleep, and but
there was what would Alex do?
Speaker 3 (03:58):
Frightening?
Speaker 4 (03:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
I mean it's a very emotional time of the night
when we wake up and we can't get back sleep,
you know, stress, panic, and then you can't sleep.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
Usually why is it I call it? It's not my
own words, you know, middle of the night when the
demons come, And that does sound very dark, but there
is a sort of time when you are more likely
to be intruded upon by negative thoughts, and because I
sometimes find that just being on my feet, you know,
(04:27):
and going to the lou even it's just like, oh,
take a breath of air. What was I feeling so
anxious about?
Speaker 3 (04:33):
That's exactly right, and that's why the importance of if
you can't sleep, we're becoming really anxious, then do get
out of bed, even if it's only for ten to
fifteen minutes. You don't need to get up with it.
And as you say, Tim, just getting them go to
the loo is often enough to just break that feeling
of anxiety and stress and panic.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
Now wearables, yes you, I mean you would be no
stranger to wearables. You possibly. I used to have one
of those rings, didn't you. I?
Speaker 3 (04:59):
Yes, I did. I don't know any longer, but I
used to. Of the they're probably the more act your
type rather than risk bace monitors. But nearly everybody I see,
not everybody, but a good proportion will be wearing these devices,
so we're not going to get rid of them. They're there.
How useful are is actually the debatable.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
I would say, because it does have sleep stages it
talks about, and it does seem to generally get it right.
But I know there's been and this is again I
think Alex would disagree with you said constantly there now,
but they and you've mentioned this on the show before
that people say I woke up and I was awake
all night, and I remember you saying, chances are you weren't.
(05:42):
You have your mind you think you were, but you're
probably asleep for a lot of that.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
Yeah, there's a huge thing called sleep state misperception, which
is you know, when you think you've been awake all night,
whereas in fact you've been drifting and out of sleep,
and that's that will tell you a bit like the
one you said you mentioned earlier where you thought you'd
had a terrible night but actually you slept recently. Well,
the problem is exactly what you say, is that it
has that emotional impact on either way. You know, either
it's a good tool, great, I must be feeling better,
(06:10):
or god, you know, I feel not too bad, but
that was a terrible night sleep, so oh I must
be feeling awful.
Speaker 5 (06:16):
Well.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
See. The one that's I found interested interesting is I've
done a little bit of googling about it, as as
you do. Is heart rate variability so when you get
a wearable or it measures and it's the difference, but
it's the slight variability in your heart rate and milliseconds,
and that it works out a standard over two to
four weeks or something, and it doesn't give you a
(06:38):
reading until it's worked out what your standard is, and
then it'll tell you whether you know I got a
low one today, I've got one that says, you know,
you've you've probably under a bit of stress. Funnily enough,
I have been. And I was bloody annoyed that my
watch knew it, but I had had a good sleep
and then I saw it. It says, oh, well, just
take it easy today, Tim. I'm like, what do you mean?
I mean, I can tell you what it says my
(06:59):
training status is strained, and my HRV status it says,
last night's HIV was within your usual range. Well, intil
I hang on a minute, what do you mean? Maybe
it wasn't as bad as I thought. Okay, as it were,
but the night before it was it was. It just
(07:21):
shows the span and it was at the low end
of it. It wasn't out of Whackretz is what is that?
What is that to.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
Do with what's called the autonomic nervous system, which is
stress and relaxation. So stress it's, as you say, the
beat to beat variability, So from one beat to another
is usually not quite the same. Yeah, if you fearly published,
you'll think it's the same. So it's so minimally different.
But if you're very stressed, it's going to be exactly
the same or almost exactly the same. If you're very relaxed,
(07:50):
it's going to there's going to be more variability in
your heart rate. So that's what it's measuring, so to
measure whether you're relaxed or whether you're stressed exactly. So
the problem is, and you've illustrated that twice now in
a meeting, that it is dictating how you feel, and
you're responding to it sort of how do you feel?
Don't look at your watch and ask you watch what
(08:11):
you how are you feeling? How do you feel?
Speaker 1 (08:12):
One funny thing is I did feel. I actually managed
to go back to sleep, and I think that extra
hour of sleep was the change that made the change.
But actually the other way around, because I woke up
one morning I thought, oh I do feel but short
of sleep, and then it said, wow, you had a
fantastic night sleep. You're in such a good space right now.
Speaker 3 (08:32):
And I was like, WHOA, yeah, I know, but again
it dictated how you felt. That's what I'm trying to
get to. So either good or bad. That it's actually
telling you how you should feel is instead of actually
feeling yourself, saying how I should feel.
Speaker 5 (08:45):
Now.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
Don't get me wrong, there are some very valuable things
that happened with these watches. I get a number of
people who come in and say, my watcher told me
my oxygen levels are dropping at night, and which that
may mean they've got sleep at near.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
That's the model up from mine, I think. Actually, because
there are different types.
Speaker 3 (09:03):
Absolutely absolutely, yeah, basic ones on heart a variability movement
and temperature, and because overnight your internal temperature drops and
your skin can temperature. Me go up, but you call
what it temperature drops and you need to do that.
It's what happens with melotonin, for example.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
I'm telling myself that really only i'd really only pay
attention to something and be concerned if I saw a
trend that suddenly changed, Because it's one thing for a
device to go, oh you had a bit of a
bad night sleeping, Me go well, that's bollocks. I slipped
like a baby. But if it started giving me a few,
I don't know what it would give me actually, But
luckily it does have a button you can click and
it will give you a quick summary and it generally says, look,
(09:40):
you know you're a bit that's don't worry too much
about it. Just good take it easy.
Speaker 3 (09:44):
I'm pleased to hear that I don't have one.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
When you had an aura ring ing, yeah, oh you
are Ah, yeah, what's the story with that? When why
did you wear it? And then why did you stop
wearing it?
Speaker 3 (09:58):
I couldn't be bothered, to be honest, because I knew
how I was feeling and yeah, so it was really
interesting because we were we had them available in facts,
still do have them available at the clinic. And the
nice thing about with a watch if you wake in
the middle of the night, people tend to look at
a watch, and we don't want people to be clockwatching
all the time. Also, it's measuring on the back of
(10:18):
your wrist, which is not where the pulse rate is.
The pulses are elcho on the front of your wrist,
whereas the awring is actually mentioned in the finger. Now
there are digital arteries going down both sides of your finger,
so it is measuring actually blood pulse rate much more accurately.
So I think it is a bit more accurate, but
it's not as accurate as what we're using these days,
which is called a song fit pro or a song
(10:40):
fit study, which is actually a thing you may on
your head and instead of measuring Surrey gets asleep, i e.
Things like our variability, movement and temperature and what have you.
It's measuring directly measuring brain waves, so it will tell
you exactly what's happening over night, So it is much
more accurate.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
Just tell us about that heart rate variability, though, what
do we What do science say about what that helpful?
Speaker 3 (11:03):
It says, If it's exactly the same heart rate, there
is no heart very variability, they're exactly the same. You're stressed.
If it's a little bit more variable, then you're more relaxed.
So that's really what it's. It's just measuring the parasympathetic
and the sympathetic of system activities.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
So let's be simple. Let's go simply. If you have
sixty beats a minute, and so it's you expect a
heartbeat every second, but in reality, there's probably half of
a tenth of a second or a tenth of a
tenth of the second where it will be different, And
it's the variability from it's the range to beat the
longest wait.
Speaker 3 (11:37):
Yeah, from beat to beat, beat to beat to beat
to beat. They're not exactly the same.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:43):
If they're exactly the same, you're stressed. If they're not
exactly the same, then you're more relaxed.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
And there's a there's a happy zone for that.
Speaker 3 (11:48):
Yeah, I mean that's right. Well, I mean when you
want to go to bed or go to sleep, you
want to be in the relaxed pace obviously. So so
that'll tell you, you know, you're very stressed and you
didn't sleep very well.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
Okay, I've got lots I can quiz Alex on, but
we're going to take your calls. I wait one hundred
eight eighty, and I can tell me how many times
I think of Alex when I've got an issue with
my sleep. It's like, they don't check your watch for time,
and I think that's because Alex told me that. And
then I have this thing of like, do you think
(12:19):
in mind if I check my watch because I'm thinking
of the time now, and Alex would probably say, look,
just bloody check the watch then if you're thinking about.
Speaker 3 (12:26):
It, if it's there, you want to check it, that's
the problem.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
I wait one hundred eighty ten eighty. Ever, you've got
any questions around getting a good night's sleep, then we'd
love to hear from you, and Alex is here to
take your cause and let's kick it off with Pete.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
Hello, Alex, h good thing.
Speaker 6 (12:44):
Yeah, I've got one of those flesh course more streets.
Speaker 7 (12:47):
What are you.
Speaker 6 (12:50):
Looking at your watch right?
Speaker 3 (12:52):
Well, it's not no, I mean you tend to use it.
Of course, a lot of people use it for the
measuring their steps and there how much care as they've
used up during the day. But when you usual for
sleep then it's not really quite so useful. But you know,
people do it and sometimes it's helpful, but much of
the time it's more e genders more stress than you need.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
Have you got one? Have you paid?
Speaker 5 (13:13):
No?
Speaker 6 (13:14):
I haven't.
Speaker 7 (13:14):
I just been.
Speaker 6 (13:15):
We had a home and garden show here this week
in here and you plum up. They're all very good
and they had the two different companies selling all these
you know these Splash Beach and the other ones that
goes up and your feet goes up. I've got another
a total near replacement done, and the other ankle I
came off a roof when I was working for riffing.
(13:35):
Coming back to the younger day, isn't it me trouble now?
And they want to fuse I don't want to do that,
And I must have met. I spent, must be I
was trying to the firm one soft ones and these
ones from mess and they've had these foam and might
have heard are those ones?
Speaker 3 (13:55):
I mean, I mean, there's a lot of talk about
the type of mattress you needed, but it's very individual.
And what I always say is probably in eighty five
ninety percent of the population sleep on a hard mattress
on the floor. It's only we softies in the Western
world that actually need these lovely soft mattresses. But it
does help if it's nice.
Speaker 6 (14:15):
Yeah, I must have met. I tried and they had
various sperm and soft ones of springs, some of out springs,
and an hour and a half he never sold me nothing.
It's there all these details and the price there was
any special, you know, But I must admit though he
did try, and he put the back up, and he
did put the feet up, yeah, and then he put
(14:36):
it down down. You feel, I feel? But what's the
story If you sleep this on a normal mattress, you know, flats,
and you do go that way and you sleep with
the back up a little bit and you feed up
a little bit, And does that really help you sleep
a lot?
Speaker 3 (14:53):
Or is it just you know, we're designed really to sleep.
We're designed to sleep horizontally in fact, so you know,
sleeping with your head up a little bit. People do
that if they've got some snoring and sleep hapening. It
makes it slightly less, but the don't sleep quite as well.
If you've got some specific disorder, like you've got very
low blood blood pressure or whatever, then putting your feet
(15:14):
up might help a little bit. But we sleep horizontally,
is how we designed to sleep.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
Mattresses a great ripoff on people on the west. Should
we all be sleeping on a hard floor?
Speaker 3 (15:23):
Well, it's interesting, isn't it that. I mean, people do
manage to sleep in all sorts of situations, and we
tend to like to get soft and perhaps not too
hard these days. Except I got someone recently who's you know,
sleeping on footon all the time, and if that which
tends to be harder, of course yea, but yeah, no,
so it's in the individual. It's partly also what you
(15:45):
used to. I mean, many places in India and China
and whatever you have been sleeping on the floor of
their lives. So that's all they know.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
I think that's the question, because that's all you know.
But if there are better ways, It's like, you know,
there are all sorts of things we did when we're promotive,
but we've improved them with science. And I do wonder
with you know, those what are those incredibly expensive mattresses
sort of center And I'm like, well, do you sleep
better on those? Or do you just can? Because people
surely make do just for a nice, you know, ordinary mattress.
(16:13):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (16:14):
Well, I mean, it's it's nice to have a good, good, soft,
comfortable mattress, but it's not essential.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
And of course, you know, there are a lot of
couples as the years both go by, they're quite keen
not to have too much roll together from there, what
were the old are the old wire wove?
Speaker 3 (16:28):
Yes, goodness, yes, closest sleeping in a hambit and theo's
are sides of the bed. You know, we do advocate
slightly bigger beds these days so that you have your
own space within the bed, because in my early days
of marriage we have a double bed and children would
sleep in single beds. I don't think any single beds
sold these days. They're all super kings or.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
While I was even thinking about my girls, I mean
we've slipped in single beds as kids, but most most kids,
everyone's got the queen size. Just I guess it's so
you can throw them out, so you can put them
on the couch when you have guests. That's our plan.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
Okay, Okay, well that's a good, good, good thinking.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
Yeah, tell you what. We'll come back and with more calls.
One hundred and eighty ten eighty. You got any questions
for Alex Bartle. We've been talking about wearables, which are
the watches and the rings and things that give you
data and whether they're any use. But any questions you've got,
I'm gonna I've got a couple of questions about Booze.
I'm going to get onto as well. And when it
does or doesn't work for helping you to good night's sleep,
I can see Alex bristling with enthusiasm for that one. Well,
(17:26):
it's twenty three and a half past four News Talk
zaid B. Yes, we've this is the health Hub. We've
got Alex Bartell with us. He's the director of the
Sleepwill Clinic. Taking your calls. I'm getting a good night's sleep.
We started by the way that the opening context was
just discussing interpreting the data on your wearable and how
useful they are, wearable being your watch, you ring, and
(17:46):
what else. Those would be the most common ones, I
think anyway. Alex is with Joan Hello.
Speaker 7 (17:57):
Hello, Hi Jane, how are you hello? Joe here? I
haven't I don't have wearable Sony col right, can you
tell me? My doctor said eighteen months ago that I
had had a hat redbook. Can you place.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
Me?
Speaker 7 (18:17):
He's actually the practice and someone else and I don't
really know. I had last to what it means.
Speaker 3 (18:26):
A heart reboot? Did you say?
Speaker 5 (18:28):
M right?
Speaker 3 (18:30):
I'm not actually a cardiologist, but it sounds as if
she had a cardio version, which is they give you
a bit of a zapp at the heart and he
gets it back into a normal rhythm again.
Speaker 7 (18:39):
Ah okay, yeah, why is having trouble sleeping? I was no,
I was. I was told, yeah, but it's a bit
awkward because I'm not sure what I'm actually trying to explain.
He said, I was very latty at m Okay, because
don't happen too many people.
Speaker 3 (19:01):
Okay, as long as it doesn't affect you sleep too much, okay, Okay, yeah, okay,
thank you.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
Yeah, but they're slightly off topic, I think, probably Joan.
But any questions, please get your friend to see the
doctor eighty Katrina.
Speaker 8 (19:17):
Hello, Hi, Hi afternoon, good afternoon from the beautiful Hall State.
Its beautiful right.
Speaker 5 (19:25):
Now, but is it?
Speaker 1 (19:26):
How is the weather over there?
Speaker 8 (19:27):
You're right, Oh, it's just starting to ramp up a little.
With I'm not on the coast. I'm sort of Hastings City,
so yeah, just this strong winds, not even that much
rain here, diet, so yeah, yeah, biting my finger. I
was waiting to see what turns up. But anyway, what
(19:48):
I'm wringing about, I kind of have maybe a different
problem from a lot of people, but I'm sure I'm
not the only one. So I take medication which actually
makes me sleep really well. In fact, I struggle with
sort of oversleeping and being really drowsy in the mornings,
and I just wondered, what sort of because the medication
(20:11):
really helps, So.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
What what is it the medical What.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
Is the medication you're taking.
Speaker 7 (20:17):
Oh, I don't really.
Speaker 8 (20:18):
Want to sort of put that out there, but.
Speaker 3 (20:22):
Yeah, it's yeah, Well there are some medications you take
which will help you go to sleep, but then will
knock you out a bit the next day. That's the problem.
Speaker 8 (20:30):
So no, it's not it's not a medication for sleep.
It's a medication for something else.
Speaker 3 (20:36):
Well, if it's a bipolar disorder, for example, cautiape or
schizo epective disorder, then it's often used for sleep as
a side effect. Or if it's an anti histamine for example,
they'll be used using a side effect of the anti
histamine to help you sleep. So they're not designated really
for sleep, but they can leave you quite groggy the
next day, which is one of the problems. So unless
(20:58):
I know what medication it is, then.
Speaker 8 (21:01):
It's a type of medication.
Speaker 3 (21:03):
Okay, okay, Well, I mean that's we use those for
I think all restlessly syndrome sometimes, but as well as
sleep is concerned, well, you're obviously using it for something
else and not for sleep directly. Presumably is that right?
Speaker 9 (21:19):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (21:19):
Correct, And so I mean we would still consider the
various behavioral options for trying to get you to sleep
better as being the primary aim initially rather than relying
on medication. And if you if, if you, if the
condition that you're taking the opits for is well controlled,
well there's not much we're going to do about that.
(21:41):
But if it's not, then we need to be looking
at other medication for that. But sleep hygiene, sleep stimulus control,
what's called is still the most important thing to be
looking at.
Speaker 5 (21:53):
What is that?
Speaker 8 (21:54):
What is the control?
Speaker 3 (21:56):
It's basically bed is for sleep. In other words, if
you're not sleeping very well, you shouldn't be in bed,
So guineing up if you can't sleep, going to BID
later if you can't get it. If you go to
bed and you can't sleep, then go a bit later
rather than earlier. So if you go to bed and
you can't sleep, then get out of bed for fifteen
twenty minutes or so. So just don't just lie in
BID becoming panicky, because that means BID becomes an anxious place.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
We don't want that to happen, right, What about like,
probably don't watch TV, I'm giving that if you give up.
I mean I to point out just something that people
might think, oh, get up and watch some TV.
Speaker 3 (22:32):
Yeah, you know, scrolling and going on to your computer
in the middle of the night doesn't help. Now you
need to do something reading, writing some stuff down, what's
going on in your brain? Writing that down, externalizing stuff.
Reading is finding in some saduka, doing a little bit
of a digitual puzzle or whatever, something really bland. But
(22:52):
not screen time if possible.
Speaker 10 (22:55):
Okay, okay, good luck anyway, thank you.
Speaker 1 (22:59):
Okay, Yeah, Actually I mean that those I must say.
I've got back into reading, and it's massive difference in
terms of just settling yourself down and getting I don't
know what it does to your brain, but it just
seems to establish some sort of rhythm where you go.
After I've done a few pages, I'm like, that's so
it's time. I mean, I'm out.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
You know, usually read before bed, before I go to sleep,
and that puts me to sleep quite easily. So yeah,
it is helpful.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
I'm quite gutted when I finish a good book that
I like and I'm like, oh, I have to find
something else to get me in the mood. That's a
perennial challenge for everyone, a regular challenge. So I say, right, Joe, Hello, who.
Speaker 5 (23:39):
Oh yeah, good thing.
Speaker 10 (23:41):
Hi. I have had blood tests done and nothing's showing
up except for the fact my blood sugar is probably
a little high. It's not pre diabetic or anything, but
I have tingling feet, soles of my feet. It it's
all day and then at night of course gets worse.
So when I lay down any tips for getting a
(24:04):
better night's sleep with a sort of having to take
some drugs.
Speaker 3 (24:07):
Yeah, I mean, it sounds like it's possible to be
this restless leg syndrome, But if you're getting a lot
of tingling in your feet during the day as well,
then it's unlikely to be restless leg syndrome. It's going
to be a peripheral neuropathy, something to do with the
nerves aren't working properly at your extremities, like your feet.
Restless leg syndrome tends to only come on in the
(24:27):
evening and maybe in the middle early part of the night,
but it's usually gone in the morning.
Speaker 10 (24:32):
So I definitely sort of like there all the time
and it's not, but it gets worse when I go
to bed. So my blood sugar is a bit high,
so I'm working on that.
Speaker 3 (24:42):
Yeah, good, keep that down.
Speaker 10 (24:44):
But any tips for being able to get to sleep well, I.
Speaker 3 (24:49):
Mean stretching a little bit of movement, dummy. Do you
find the movement helps at all or does it make to.
Speaker 5 (24:55):
Move your lips?
Speaker 4 (24:56):
Yeah?
Speaker 10 (24:56):
Yeah, I do because I sort of like when they
get ting leading. Of course my feet start to get
a little bit hot as well, and then I start
moving them around, and.
Speaker 3 (25:06):
Yeah, it sounds actually what you might need to do,
see as a neurologist, to actually just test the nerve
functioning in your leagues, right, because I mean it could
be Rissly syndrome, and that's.
Speaker 10 (25:19):
I don't think it is, because it came on quite suddenly,
and I think it was just my blood sugars are
a bit high from what they have been. On the part,
it could be really working on, but it could take
quite a while for it come down. I understand, and
and for the tingling who cease. But I just wanted
if there was any ideas of.
Speaker 3 (25:40):
You know, no, I mean a long term look after
your blood sugars. Get those down, that's probably the main thing.
And if it persists, then you need to see a
neurologist and they'll do some nerve testing.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
Okay, thanks, thanks, just quick text. We've got a bunch
of calls to get to and well, march on after.
We'll take a break after this quickly. Eight hours somebody
just said as eight hours dead sleeping a fallacy or real?
Speaker 5 (26:05):
What is you know?
Speaker 1 (26:06):
Is it a modern sort of construct or what.
Speaker 3 (26:08):
It's a reundatively modern? I always look on it as
being part of the Industrial Revolution when they came up
with eight hours work, eight hours play, an eight hours sleep.
It was sort of part of that eight hours thing.
But it's a bit like the ten thousand Steps of Help.
You know, it's something that's grabbed out of the ether,
but it actually seems to work reasoningly well in the end,
as was said on the program this morning, as listening
(26:30):
to you more than six hours, anything more than six hours,
but probably not more than nine or ten hours. So
any of those as long as you feel good when
you wake up in the morning and you don't have
to keep on waking up with that alarm, which automatically
means you're not getting quite enough sleep.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
Right, We're going to take a quick moment. We're with
Alex Bartlet from sleep while Planet taking your calls on
getting a good night's sleep. We started with chatting about wearables,
but lots of questions around just you know, being able
to have that night of sleep where you can start
the day nice and fresh. What is it? What's the
best way to get on top of your sleep troubles?
Eight one hundred and eighty ten eighty. We'll be back
in just the second news talks It be news talk
(27:06):
as it bees indeed, and my guest there's Alex Bartle,
director of the Sleep Well Clinic, taking your course. Let's
keep moving ahead. Jeff, Hello, Hey guys, how are you good? Thanks?
Speaker 4 (27:17):
He I hate tragic sleep man.
Speaker 11 (27:20):
I can go to beat it tin crash out like
a zombie. But then it's lights on at three o'clock
in the morning and I'm like someone's probed me, and
I'm like super awake, ready to go.
Speaker 3 (27:31):
Well, how do you go during the rest of the day.
Do you feel good all the rest of the day
or you get tired in the afternoons, particularly.
Speaker 11 (27:38):
I stack up on vitamins and just go. But you
like to sleep more than five hours?
Speaker 3 (27:43):
Absolutely?
Speaker 10 (27:45):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (27:45):
No, No, five hours is not enough. Six hours and
more is what you need at least six hours on
a regular basis. A lot of people get less than
six hours intermittently, but it sounds like you're doing it
a lot, which is probably not idea. So bothally, your
tip really is what do you do when you wake
in the night instead of getting up for the day,
(28:07):
And the answer would be to get up just for briefly,
keep the place dark quiet, do something very quiet, but
get out of bed. Fifteen twenty minutes is all you need.
But do try and go back to sleep. You know,
we go back. Don't give up on it. In other words,
although you may not think, well, I'm not sleepy, go
back to bed anywhere and hopefully you might get back
to sleep.
Speaker 11 (28:27):
No, I've tried it multiple times and I just like
end up going back to bed and it's just like
lights on in my headay, and it's just like I'm awake.
Speaker 4 (28:34):
And then you have the I want to sleep. I
want to sleep, and it's just a waste of time.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
What about reading in the middle of the night, thought, Yeah,
you know.
Speaker 11 (28:42):
I've tried reading, going out and building something, having a mistake.
Speaker 5 (28:47):
You name it.
Speaker 3 (28:47):
Mate, sounds like you've been very active in the middle
of the night. Which of course doesn't particularly help you
go back to sleep. So doing something that's a bit boring,
like a book, orse some jigsaw puzzle or something that's
actually not very mind challenging, certainly, don't put lots of
lights on, keep the lights down, but give it a
go again. So it is really it's not enough five hours.
(29:09):
If it really is five hours that you.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
Get getting up and reading a book, ords you can
read a book and bed.
Speaker 4 (29:15):
I get up, I get up and read as well.
Speaker 11 (29:16):
Yeah, I've tried there.
Speaker 8 (29:18):
Just once I'm awake.
Speaker 4 (29:20):
It's just like I'm awake away.
Speaker 11 (29:21):
Kay, I think it was. I looked after my son
in hospital for five years, and so when ever there
was a noise, I would straight away be awake.
Speaker 4 (29:30):
Okay, what do I need to do? I think that
action is still in my mind? Does that make sense?
Speaker 3 (29:35):
I think trying some meditation techniques would probably be a
good ideas, and in mindfulness, some of those techniques, breathing
techniques can be very helpful too in the middle of
it takes a bit of a practice, I guess to
do these things because a lot of people try them
once or twice, it doesn't work very well, so they
give up. It does take practice to get you get
used to what you need to do.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
Keep, try, try and try again. I mean, I'm sorry,
there's no instant.
Speaker 3 (30:01):
No, no, there is no no obvious immediate things.
Speaker 1 (30:04):
You're quite right, Hey, thanks for you call. Jeff. Yeah,
I guess that's the thing. If he's trying lots of
different things, he's stimulating himself. Yes, I mean, is there
something in that, like just find a book, just read it.
Maybe you'll read it and you'll be up for the
rest of the day. But do it again and again
and again and again.
Speaker 3 (30:21):
And it's what I said. I think is that you know,
you try it once or twice and it doesn't work,
so you give up on it. But in fact, if
you find some techniques that we know do work, like reading,
doing something quiet, meditation, what have you, then stick with it,
give it a go over long term.
Speaker 1 (30:37):
Okay, right, let's take some more of course, Craig.
Speaker 4 (30:39):
Hello, Yeah, hi guys, Okay, yeah, interesting, just sudden to
the last course actually sort of made all orsuits me. I,
my wife and I we're like, I'm approaching sixty. My
wife is sort of somebody who likes to be a
(31:03):
sleep about ten to thirty yeah, I like to be
asleep around midnight.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
Our hours are different case, yes.
Speaker 4 (31:12):
Yeah, ours are slightly different. So from Monday to Thursday
we sleep in our own bedrooms, and then on the
weekends we sleep together. And we sleep together really well
on the weekends because we don't have that pressure of
have to get to sleep. Yeah, exactly so, and I sleep,
(31:36):
you know, actually pretty well during who are.
Speaker 1 (31:39):
Just Craig, does she go earlier or you go later?
When you're in together.
Speaker 4 (31:44):
We actually, to be honest, I tend to fall to
sleep earlier when we're like on our date nights if
you like Friday, Sunday, Sunday, those nights will we sleep
in the same bedroom because of our hours. It's like
that actually works really well. Both of us actually seem
to sleep to sleep better. But we have like we've
(32:06):
always slepped sleep in the same room for years, but
we're only in the last year or so trying to,
you know, during the middle of the week when we've
both got high intensity childs that have different hours, just
trying to take pure of each other a little bit.
Speaker 3 (32:23):
I think that sounds very sensible. In fact, you know,
the idea of sleeping together is not a is a
relatively new one. You know, for many years, people if
they could, if they could afford to always have their
own rooms. So it's a it's really a modern concept
that we need to sleep together all the time.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
So I think, you know, you're like Donald and Millennia,
but just three or four days a week foret that.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
Yeah, I don't think they have backs anyway.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
Okay, thanks, great, thank you. I don't know, sorry, I
couldn't help myself. Somebody suggested earlier. Caller says, Jeff should
just I mean, it's this, it sounds like a cheeky
sort of He says. He sleeps from ten to or three.
Somebody suggests, well, maybe Jeff should try going to bed
at nine. Maybe he'll get all the way through it's
all three.
Speaker 3 (33:34):
Yeah, Well he may not get through to three, but
if he wakes out two, one thirty or two, he's
more likely to get back to sleep than if he
wakes at three o'clock, when psychologically is thinking, maybe I'm
going to have to try and get back to sleep.
So just takes the pressure off.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
And it could be a trigger like I'm going to
go at nine to just change a mindset, you know,
because does that sometimes help you. Yeah, absolutely different messaging.
Speaker 3 (33:55):
Yeah, and that's assuming you can't go to sleep at nine,
because a lot of people who you know, go to
sleep when they're tired, and going to bed earlier is
not initially the right way thing to do. But if
he can't go to bed and go to sleep earlier,
you'll wake earlier. Probably they'd have less pressure and be
able to go back to sleep again.
Speaker 1 (34:10):
Also, Ji, if you can give me a call, you know,
on my overnights and we'll keep the company for an
hour and then you'll be like, I'm out of here anyway,
I'll tell you what. Let's go to John. Hello.
Speaker 5 (34:22):
Oh hello, I've lost my voice. I've lost my voice.
But I just have about three queries. Yeah. The first
one is I want a recommendation about a mattress. I
think mattress is very important. Can you give me the
name of a mattress?
Speaker 10 (34:40):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (34:41):
Probably not.
Speaker 5 (34:42):
No.
Speaker 3 (34:42):
I don't deal with mattress companies particularly, although I have
done talks for them occasionally. But really I think mattress
is very much a personal thing. So my advice really
is to go to a Metros shop and try them.
Lie down on the cew you feel, move around on
them if you can a little bit. Like our earlier
caller did, actually try.
Speaker 5 (35:05):
The soft mattress the best is it?
Speaker 3 (35:07):
No, not necessarily. They did a study in Spain actually
on back people with back injury. They found that ten
being very hard and one being very rather their way
around ten being very soft and one being very hard.
They found the best was about six. So it's just
slightly on the firmer side, but not too soft.
Speaker 5 (35:27):
Now, the next question, briefly is I have trouble with pillars.
So what I'm trying to say is I had to
explain No, I don't exactly have trouble with pillars. But
what I'm saying why is the pillar heats my head up.
I mean I noticed that if I sleep on a pillow,
if it's nice and cold, it's good, but when it
(35:48):
heats my I find that when I put my hair
on a pillow, my head heats up, which causes discomfort.
Speaker 3 (35:57):
Yeah, I mean both pillows and sheets and dos and
what have you try and find one that takes the
heat away. So often the synthetic ones don't do that
so well.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
So go and talk to someone in a sleep shop
as well. Just say you hate your head sleeping heating up.
That'll have some ideas and you might find that part
of it's also if you're maybe a firmer pillow where
less if your head's enveloped by it, for one would
be I don't know, I'm just making up as a goal.
Speaker 3 (36:25):
And also I mean again depends what position you like sleeping.
If it's so you know, if you're a tummy sleeper,
then you need a very low pillow. If you're a
side sleeper, then maybe a slightly higher pillow, but you
need one that will absorb the heat, which again a
pillow specialist to the shop will tell you.
Speaker 1 (36:44):
Okay, right, we'll be back, and just to take times
racing by with Alex Bartle talking about your getting a
good night's sleep. It's just about ten to five news talks.
He'd be talking sleep with Alex Bartell from Sleep Well Clinic.
Time for Squeeze and I think one more call. Sorry
if we haven't got it to all your texts, but
as I've said, it is a popular album. But we
will have Alex back of course, but it is seven
(37:05):
minutes to five. As Veronica alo, oh.
Speaker 9 (37:09):
Hello, I just wanted to know my daughter has got
a depression. And she suffers, suffer for slipping for how
many years? And they're increasing her slipping tablet. Now she's
taking four slipping tablet at night and she says she
s two can't slip called join correct.
Speaker 3 (37:30):
Yeah, it's a problem with sleeping tablets there. I mean,
they can be incredibly useful, but unfortunately people tend to
start using more and more because they become less effective.
The body gets used to them. So in the end,
you know, you start with half and you move on
to one, then two and et cetera. As your daughter has.
And unfortunately sleep disordered sleep problems are very strongly associated
(37:52):
with psychological dysfunction as well, so people with depression or
bipolo and what have you very common her sleep issues. However,
the behavioral stuff that we talk about us is still useful,
is still relevant, and so so trying to wean off
some of the medication. But what do you do instead?
That's the problem, and so that's what we function on
(38:14):
it we deal with is actually what you do instead
of taking a pill, And they're very much more effective
in the end.
Speaker 9 (38:23):
I tried it too. I tried it to her to
not to say she stipped it to now and I'm
trying to try to do exercise, do this what they
but she should ore to can't slip slip, and she
keep increasing and I'm worried about it, and i might
leave my bed a couple of years. I'm over eighteen
now and I'm worried about her.
Speaker 3 (38:44):
Yeah, well, quite right, and it's good that you are
concerned and doing something about it with your daughter. But
I think she needs some professional advice to actually see
where do I go with my sleep? Because taking more
pills isn't the answer.
Speaker 5 (38:56):
In the end.
Speaker 1 (38:57):
Yeah, I'm sorry. I'm sorry you to deal with that. Yeah,
just a couple of things. Somebody, somebody said to me.
They say, I don't mean this was respect. They say,
when I wake up at two or three o'clock, I
put on news talks. It'd be on the timer thirty minutes,
no offense, but the show puts me to sleep. Well, actually,
I think sometimes there's something in the fact that you've
(39:18):
you've just engaged for half an hour, an hour, you've
had some company, and then you switch it off and
go to sleep. Other people say, Tim, you're not helping
me sleep. I'm like, well, to be honest, that's not
really my job.
Speaker 12 (39:27):
I want you to stay out a wake as long
as possible, whatever it does, whatever works for you.
Speaker 1 (39:33):
Actually the other one, now there was something another message.
I was trying to find. Another one just says I
like to say. I like to say I deserve a
good sleep tonight, and I think it has mostly worked
over time, and I recommend the right pillow is also
most important. But actually just tell yourself I deserve a
good night's sleep.
Speaker 3 (39:52):
Good thinking. Yeah, absolutely, as far as pillows concerned, it's
the one thing that people tend to earn holiday with them.
Of course, pillows are pretty important individually for people.
Speaker 1 (40:02):
Isn't it funny that? Isn't it funny that you can't
take your mattress with it. If you could take the mattress.
Speaker 3 (40:07):
With you, you probably do that too.
Speaker 1 (40:10):
Actually, is this I sometimes wonder with kids and cuddly toys, Yeah,
how many teenagers are still get the cuddly toy that
they might have. Maybe we should all get a cuddly toy, maybe.
Speaker 3 (40:21):
Not cuddly something.
Speaker 12 (40:25):
I don't know what I'm talking about, but anyway, Hey Alex,
great to see you mate, Thank you and Kip here
and I wish all of you a good night's sleep,
but not yet because we've got another hour ago and
it's not nighttime.
Speaker 1 (40:36):
We got Andrew Bascan with us talking with us for
smart Money. This is news Talk Said. Be back shortly
for more from the weekend collective. Listen live to News
Talk Said be weekends from three pm, or follow the
podcast on iHeartRadio
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