It's been a busy week between New Zealand and India.
The Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi is due to make his first official visit to New Zealand as the FTA gets over the line, however Winston Peters has raised concerns around Indian immigrants receiving unfair scrutiny at the border.
The Chair of India New Zealand Business Council Edwin Paul told Tim Beveridge that, 'This is a start of a journey' of trade between India and New Zealand.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks EDB.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
So, a lot has happened in this week in regards
to the FTA with India, and of course we've got
new Prime Minister Narendra Modi is making his first official
visit to New Zealand and it's the first for an
Indian Prime minister in many, many, many years. And unless
I've missed something, Winston Peters, he didn't make a bit
of a U turn on his illicitial reaction to the FDA. Didn't.
(00:31):
He's saying we need tough restrictions on immigrants to the
restrictions are too tough on immigrants, Indian immigrants. Anyway, let's
get some reaction to this busy week Edwin and Paul.
He is the chair of the India New Zealand Business Council,
and he joins me.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
Now, good afternoon, Good afterton, Good, thanks for the invitation. Good, Yeah,
thanks for time. How big a deal is this visit?
OD This is a huge deal. This is the once
in a generation economic opportunity. I mean, there's a deal
that will last for the next two decades at least.
And yeah, this is a starting line. I mean if
(01:10):
I have to give you a detailed response. Firstly, it
builds confidence across business communities across both the countries. Right,
so the garments are backing up, putting together a well
negotiated agreement and signed it and that builds confidence for
the big boys come in and play and make the investments. Secondly,
it actually removes unfair competitiveness that Australia had because of
(01:36):
their FTA. To give you an example, sheep meat which
from here, which is very well enjoyed in India, Australia
and New Zealand used to be about the same. But
then since when Australia got their FTA down in twenty
twenty two, they got a thirty three percent direct reduction,
so which means what was one hundred dollars product KIV
(01:58):
she farmers had to I mean were valued one hundred
and thirty three that was the cost. Right. So now
with an FTR like this, this removes barriers and from
the moment it becomes effective, it becomes any level playing
ground and I'm sure we'll beat Rozsie issue farmers on this,
but in all seriousness it's the biggest loss was in
market shed, was competitive fairness and Ozzie's had an advantage,
(02:23):
but it took us our time, but I think it's
worth it and we are good to play. And thirdly
is around the investments itself. Now that you know, businesses
will will begin to think beyond just training and exporting
to partnerships long term are in the I P and
those kind of long term activities. So that's how big
this deals for us.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
So the visit from Modi himself is just just sort
of a bit of a diplomatic how how are you
sort of thing?
Speaker 3 (02:49):
What? What?
Speaker 2 (02:50):
What do we expect from this particular visit.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
There could be many dimensions to it, right, but from
a business community for us, it's it's a very strong
signal that both the governments we had our Prime minister
and India not too long ago when the FDA was
announced and this is reciprocal and when the leaders of
nations shake hands and come into things, it gives a
(03:15):
lot of confidence for businesses to invest and engage in
that space.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
What do you think as his motivation for coming basically
sort of reciprocal? You know we've been over there and
he's going to pop in and say hi.
Speaker 3 (03:29):
I don't think so, I mean, I mean I'm not
an expert in this field, but if you look at
the Prime Minister Modi's traveled in the recent past, it
has been quite strategic, right and in the shifting geopolitics,
every destination they don't treat it lightly. It's not just
a go hollo and say hi whatever. For a Prime
Minister of India to go to a particular destination, it's
(03:49):
a fairly big deal. And that commitment that's made is
to endorse the free trade agreement. Primarily it comes at
the moment when I know both the governments have agreed
on it.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
I'm not sure how you're interested extends on the political
side of things, Chrissy is this is something of a
controversial leader in a way, with his stance over Hindu nationalism,
press freedom, et cetera, and descent. Are we to expect
protests or any uncomfortable moments during his visit.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
I'm not too. I don't really want to get into
that because these things are beyond the realm of business.
But I just want to remind our listeners about there
are similar situations around when we did the China Free
Trade Agreement as well, right, and there was lots of
political sensitivities, There was human rights issues and all of that.
But in the passage of time we know how good
(04:41):
a deal it was and what benefits and not to
New Zealand.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
What did you make of the fuss with Winston Peters
suddenly becoming very concerned about the way Indian immigrants might
be treated. And do you did it worry you when
Winston was kicking up a fuss that it might somehow
impact on our relationship or do you take the stance that, well, Mody,
you'll be well briefed about Winston, so don't worry about
it too much.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
Yeah, I think the latter is the true than the
farmer that you know, people involved will have their brief
and they know what it is. But also people can
differentiate between the signal and the noise, right, so it's
okay for different political parties to have different views. That's
healthy in a democracy. From a business community's perspective, our
(05:27):
focus is and making the agreement work for New Zealand businesses,
so it needs to be based on facts and not
just interpretations or you know, as persions around it.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
What's your understanding about the long term benefits and effects
of this trade deal and for the average punter who's listening,
because trade deals. For many people who follow the news,
they hear there's a trade deal and they don't really
understand how it affects them. It sort of goes over
their head. How would you put this in context for
you know, the average key we voter.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
Okay, I'm not sure I'm here to influence any vote.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
From its folts, but just you know, it's there's a
lot of rhetoric that flies around about trade deals, and
we've heard Winston's rhetoric. And I'm not going to pull
you in too much on the political side, but just
like people who go, what does this really mean? We're
going to sell a few, We're going to sell some
lamb to some fruit maybe or some dairy.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
What is it?
Speaker 3 (06:24):
Actually? Could be a very naive or ignorant assumption because
just before when I was hearing your show, before your show,
New Zealand is already announcing to do future deals. Right,
there's about six or seven in the pipeline, and if
you look at from India, this is the current times.
This is how wars are fought now or like you know,
(06:45):
acquisitions or losses are made because of deals such as this,
we're seeing this happen in Iran, We're seeing this happen
in America, so it's it is fairly huge. But for
New Zealand and India, this is like a twenty year journey.
This is the FDA sayning is only a beginning of
a journey for us, especially for the Business Council. Right,
So for the last twenty two decades we've been lobbying
(07:08):
for an FDA, asking for it, and now that we
have it, now is the time that this is the beginning.
And to put it in real terms, the value of
the FDA is said to be around thirty five billion
New Zealand dollars, right, and that's over a fifteen to
twenty year time period. And when I've heard the experts
(07:31):
speak about this and when I read and listen to
other negotiators and stuff, these numbers are conservative because they
have to pass very high scrutiny. They can't sell just
whims and fancies. Or it's not a marketing pitch number,
it's not a pitch deck number. This is an accountants
number where negotiated and it's all to the specific. So
(07:52):
the business community knows that actually, as we've seen in China,
the real numbers, the delivery would be much more than
the thirty five million New Zealand dollars. Right. So that's
the size of the deal. That's the tenure of the
is this deal will last at least five government changes. Right,
So people, when you talk about a political thing, and
I just try to refrain myself, but I can't that
(08:15):
any noise that happens politically around it will probably be
only till about November. And we've seen this happen before
by the same players. And once it's done, then the
business is real, right, and this will last governments and
that's why it's excellent from a New Zealand perspective that
it's bipartisan support to it. While there are French parties
which will you know, make a noise about this, the
(08:38):
main parties that are there are committed to this and
that's how big a deal. So sorry long when to
answer to your question.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
No, that's that's good. I just last question, as the
chair of the Indian New Zealand Business Council, how is
the next year or two going to look for you?
And how much does it change just you know what
you're doing nine to five.
Speaker 3 (08:58):
Oh, that's a great question. I mean, my role is
not nine to five, but it's because.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Sorry, as I said it, I thought.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
No, no, no, no. But it's a very interesting question for us.
Like I mentioned earlier, this is a pivotal moment in
our journey, right. So for the we are a thirty
eight year old organization and we've had so many great
leaders who set the tone for us. While the trade
deal itself was negotiated in the last nine months, the
(09:28):
actual the laying of the ground, the relationships that were built,
the kind of getting the soil ready for this was
done all these years, in the last twenty years at least,
when the stock of the since the talk of the
first free trade agreement that came about. But in that
now that it's done, it changes our whole race on
the act, right, So we're no longer and lobbying thing.
(09:52):
I mean, those are things of the past, lobbying, advocacy
and stuff. So now we are getting into building ecosystems,
the corridors, connecting and doing road maps. The next two
years at least is going to be super excitaiting for
us because our whole our goals and aspirations are being
shaped up now and that will change that will be
(10:13):
represented in the board and the skills that we require,
the type of people and how we service our members, etc.
Just to give you an insight, our membership has grown
about one hundred percent in the last few months, right,
so people are keen they want to hear and the
last few events that we've had around this from the
(10:33):
the stakeholders, we're all sold out. So there is a
huge expectations. We are a membership not for profit organizations,
so we're struggling for resources, but we are super excited.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
Excellent, Well, I really appreciate your time this afternoon. Thanks
for Matt Chedwin, Thanks Tim, cheers. Great to be there about. Yes,
that is Edwin Paul. He's chair of the India New
Zealand Business Council. Actually it's quite fascinating asking how his
role was going to change. And actually I think for
me as just a a that punter, I've passing interest
(11:07):
in these sorts of news stories. You really do get
a sense of the energy that it's going to be
putting into the stakeholders in this sort of trade relationship.
And so yeah, god do we really appreciate everyone's time
Speaker 1 (11:20):
For more from the Weekend Collective Listen live to news
talks it'd be weekends from three pm, or follow the
podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks EDB.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
So, a lot has happened in this week in regards
to the FTA with India, and of course we've got
new Prime Minister Narendra Modi is making his first official
visit to New Zealand and it's the first for an
Indian Prime minister in many, many, many years. And unless
I've missed something, Winston Peters, he didn't make a bit
of a U turn on his illicitial reaction to the FDA. Didn't.
(00:31):
He's saying we need tough restrictions on immigrants to the
restrictions are too tough on immigrants, Indian immigrants. Anyway, let's
get some reaction to this busy week Edwin and Paul.
He is the chair of the India New Zealand Business Council,
and he joins me.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
Now, good afternoon, Good afterton, Good, thanks for the invitation. Good, Yeah,
thanks for time. How big a deal is this visit?
OD This is a huge deal. This is the once
in a generation economic opportunity. I mean, there's a deal
that will last for the next two decades at least.
And yeah, this is a starting line. I mean if
(01:10):
I have to give you a detailed response. Firstly, it
builds confidence across business communities across both the countries. Right,
so the garments are backing up, putting together a well
negotiated agreement and signed it and that builds confidence for
the big boys come in and play and make the investments. Secondly,
it actually removes unfair competitiveness that Australia had because of
(01:36):
their FTA. To give you an example, sheep meat which
from here, which is very well enjoyed in India, Australia
and New Zealand used to be about the same. But
then since when Australia got their FTA down in twenty
twenty two, they got a thirty three percent direct reduction,
so which means what was one hundred dollars product KIV
(01:58):
she farmers had to I mean were valued one hundred
and thirty three that was the cost. Right. So now
with an FTR like this, this removes barriers and from
the moment it becomes effective, it becomes any level playing
ground and I'm sure we'll beat Rozsie issue farmers on this,
but in all seriousness it's the biggest loss was in
market shed, was competitive fairness and Ozzie's had an advantage,
(02:23):
but it took us our time, but I think it's
worth it and we are good to play. And thirdly
is around the investments itself. Now that you know, businesses
will will begin to think beyond just training and exporting
to partnerships long term are in the I P and
those kind of long term activities. So that's how big
this deals for us.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
So the visit from Modi himself is just just sort
of a bit of a diplomatic how how are you
sort of thing?
Speaker 3 (02:49):
What? What?
Speaker 2 (02:50):
What do we expect from this particular visit.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
There could be many dimensions to it, right, but from
a business community for us, it's it's a very strong
signal that both the governments we had our Prime minister
and India not too long ago when the FDA was
announced and this is reciprocal and when the leaders of
nations shake hands and come into things, it gives a
(03:15):
lot of confidence for businesses to invest and engage in
that space.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
What do you think as his motivation for coming basically
sort of reciprocal? You know we've been over there and
he's going to pop in and say hi.
Speaker 3 (03:29):
I don't think so, I mean, I mean I'm not
an expert in this field, but if you look at
the Prime Minister Modi's traveled in the recent past, it
has been quite strategic, right and in the shifting geopolitics,
every destination they don't treat it lightly. It's not just
a go hollo and say hi whatever. For a Prime
Minister of India to go to a particular destination, it's
(03:49):
a fairly big deal. And that commitment that's made is
to endorse the free trade agreement. Primarily it comes at
the moment when I know both the governments have agreed
on it.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
I'm not sure how you're interested extends on the political
side of things, Chrissy is this is something of a
controversial leader in a way, with his stance over Hindu nationalism,
press freedom, et cetera, and descent. Are we to expect
protests or any uncomfortable moments during his visit.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
I'm not too. I don't really want to get into
that because these things are beyond the realm of business.
But I just want to remind our listeners about there
are similar situations around when we did the China Free
Trade Agreement as well, right, and there was lots of
political sensitivities, There was human rights issues and all of that.
But in the passage of time we know how good
(04:41):
a deal it was and what benefits and not to
New Zealand.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
What did you make of the fuss with Winston Peters
suddenly becoming very concerned about the way Indian immigrants might
be treated. And do you did it worry you when
Winston was kicking up a fuss that it might somehow
impact on our relationship or do you take the stance that, well, Mody,
you'll be well briefed about Winston, so don't worry about
it too much.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
Yeah, I think the latter is the true than the
farmer that you know, people involved will have their brief
and they know what it is. But also people can
differentiate between the signal and the noise, right, so it's
okay for different political parties to have different views. That's
healthy in a democracy. From a business community's perspective, our
(05:27):
focus is and making the agreement work for New Zealand businesses,
so it needs to be based on facts and not
just interpretations or you know, as persions around it.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
What's your understanding about the long term benefits and effects
of this trade deal and for the average punter who's listening,
because trade deals. For many people who follow the news,
they hear there's a trade deal and they don't really
understand how it affects them. It sort of goes over
their head. How would you put this in context for
you know, the average key we voter.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
Okay, I'm not sure I'm here to influence any vote.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
From its folts, but just you know, it's there's a
lot of rhetoric that flies around about trade deals, and
we've heard Winston's rhetoric. And I'm not going to pull
you in too much on the political side, but just
like people who go, what does this really mean? We're
going to sell a few, We're going to sell some
lamb to some fruit maybe or some dairy.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
What is it?
Speaker 3 (06:24):
Actually? Could be a very naive or ignorant assumption because
just before when I was hearing your show, before your show,
New Zealand is already announcing to do future deals. Right,
there's about six or seven in the pipeline, and if
you look at from India, this is the current times.
This is how wars are fought now or like you know,
(06:45):
acquisitions or losses are made because of deals such as this,
we're seeing this happen in Iran, We're seeing this happen
in America, so it's it is fairly huge. But for
New Zealand and India, this is like a twenty year journey.
This is the FDA sayning is only a beginning of
a journey for us, especially for the Business Council. Right,
So for the last twenty two decades we've been lobbying
(07:08):
for an FDA, asking for it, and now that we
have it, now is the time that this is the beginning.
And to put it in real terms, the value of
the FDA is said to be around thirty five billion
New Zealand dollars, right, and that's over a fifteen to
twenty year time period. And when I've heard the experts
(07:31):
speak about this and when I read and listen to
other negotiators and stuff, these numbers are conservative because they
have to pass very high scrutiny. They can't sell just
whims and fancies. Or it's not a marketing pitch number,
it's not a pitch deck number. This is an accountants
number where negotiated and it's all to the specific. So
(07:52):
the business community knows that actually, as we've seen in China,
the real numbers, the delivery would be much more than
the thirty five million New Zealand dollars. Right. So that's
the size of the deal. That's the tenure of the
is this deal will last at least five government changes. Right,
So people, when you talk about a political thing, and
I just try to refrain myself, but I can't that
(08:15):
any noise that happens politically around it will probably be
only till about November. And we've seen this happen before
by the same players. And once it's done, then the
business is real, right, and this will last governments and
that's why it's excellent from a New Zealand perspective that
it's bipartisan support to it. While there are French parties
which will you know, make a noise about this, the
(08:38):
main parties that are there are committed to this and
that's how big a deal. So sorry long when to
answer to your question.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
No, that's that's good. I just last question, as the
chair of the Indian New Zealand Business Council, how is
the next year or two going to look for you?
And how much does it change just you know what
you're doing nine to five.
Speaker 3 (08:58):
Oh, that's a great question. I mean, my role is
not nine to five, but it's because.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Sorry, as I said it, I thought.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
No, no, no, no. But it's a very interesting question for us.
Like I mentioned earlier, this is a pivotal moment in
our journey, right. So for the we are a thirty
eight year old organization and we've had so many great
leaders who set the tone for us. While the trade
deal itself was negotiated in the last nine months, the
(09:28):
actual the laying of the ground, the relationships that were built,
the kind of getting the soil ready for this was
done all these years, in the last twenty years at least,
when the stock of the since the talk of the
first free trade agreement that came about. But in that
now that it's done, it changes our whole race on
the act, right, So we're no longer and lobbying thing.
(09:52):
I mean, those are things of the past, lobbying, advocacy
and stuff. So now we are getting into building ecosystems,
the corridors, connecting and doing road maps. The next two
years at least is going to be super excitaiting for
us because our whole our goals and aspirations are being
shaped up now and that will change that will be
(10:13):
represented in the board and the skills that we require,
the type of people and how we service our members, etc.
Just to give you an insight, our membership has grown
about one hundred percent in the last few months, right,
so people are keen they want to hear and the
last few events that we've had around this from the
(10:33):
the stakeholders, we're all sold out. So there is a
huge expectations. We are a membership not for profit organizations,
so we're struggling for resources, but we are super excited.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
Excellent, Well, I really appreciate your time this afternoon. Thanks
for Matt Chedwin, Thanks Tim, cheers. Great to be there about. Yes,
that is Edwin Paul. He's chair of the India New
Zealand Business Council. Actually it's quite fascinating asking how his
role was going to change. And actually I think for
me as just a a that punter, I've passing interest
(11:07):
in these sorts of news stories. You really do get
a sense of the energy that it's going to be
putting into the stakeholders in this sort of trade relationship.
And so yeah, god do we really appreciate everyone's time
Speaker 1 (11:20):
For more from the Weekend Collective Listen live to news
talks it'd be weekends from three pm, or follow the
podcast on iHeartRadio
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